Cowboys Release TO (1 Viewer)

[FUBAR]

loving the Ben thread.

FWIW, there's talk that TO is in Nashville right now.

I now return you to the Ben Thread. Thanks for listening to this brief interruption.

 

[mudshark]

loving the Ben thread. FWIW, there's talk that TO is in Nashville right now. I now return you to the Ben Thread. Thanks for listening to this brief interruption.

And not to hijack, but I heard on Mike & Mike this morning something from Rosenhaus about T.O. is "negotiating with several teams" right now and hope to be signed by within a week or so. The Mikes called BS on it.

 

[PatsWillWin]

Roethlisberger is definitely better than Eli Manning.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

It's misleading because Brees wasn't very good when he was younger. Three of the last five years he's played at an elite level.Put Ben on the Saints and I don't think they win 8 games.

With all due respect...I would liquidate my 401k and take OVER 7 wins with BR and last years Saints team.Say what you will about #'s and percentages, but generally speaking, the guy just wins.

No one remembers that when Ben took over the team, they were coming off a 6-10 season, had made very few major additions (save for Roethlisberger) and were 1-1 under Maddox that year before Tommy got hurt. 7-11 in their previous 18 games, Ben took over, they went 15-0 the rest of the way. And everyone talked about how he had such a great team around him, and that's why he won. Second season, he carries the team to the SB by playing out of his mind in all 3 playoff games, they win their first title in 25 years, and everyone says they won despite him. This year, he goes into the SB with no line, no running attack and plays phenomenal football (seriously, the best performance by a QB in the big game that I've seen in some time, and Warner was a close second) and wins the SB with a clutch 2:00 drive, and people claim he rode an all-time defense to a crown.Some people are just never going to give him his due. None of those people are fans of the 6-time Champion Steelers. That should say something. For anyone claiming we have a homer-riffic view of Ben, ask Kordell Stewart if Steeler fans blindly love their QBs no matter what. For the record, I think Pittsburgh has exactly three players that are among the top 3 at their position - Harrison, Polamalu, and Roethlisberger. I don't tout Ben because he's a Steeler, I tout him because he turned this team from a "usually good, often a contender, never win the big one" team to a "SB threat essentially EVERY year" team.

 

[Steelnation]

It's misleading because Brees wasn't very good when he was younger. Three of the last five years he's played at an elite level.Put Ben on the Saints and I don't think they win 8 games.

With all due respect...I would liquidate my 401k and take OVER 7 wins with BR and last years Saints team.Say what you will about #'s and percentages, but generally speaking, the guy just wins.

No one remembers that when Ben took over the team, they were coming off a 6-10 season, had made very few major additions (save for Roethlisberger) and were 1-1 under Maddox that year before Tommy got hurt. 7-11 in their previous 18 games, Ben took over, they went 15-0 the rest of the way. And everyone talked about how he had such a great team around him, and that's why he won. Second season, he carries the team to the SB by playing out of his mind in all 3 playoff games, they win their first title in 25 years, and everyone says they won despite him. This year, he goes into the SB with no line, no running attack and plays phenomenal football (seriously, the best performance by a QB in the big game that I've seen in some time, and Warner was a close second) and wins the SB with a clutch 2:00 drive, and people claim he rode an all-time defense to a crown.Some people are just never going to give him his due. None of those people are fans of the 6-time Champion Steelers. That should say something. For anyone claiming we have a homer-riffic view of Ben, ask Kordell Stewart if Steeler fans blindly love their QBs no matter what. For the record, I think Pittsburgh has exactly three players that are among the top 3 at their position - Harrison, Polamalu, and Roethlisberger. I don't tout Ben because he's a Steeler, I tout him because he turned this team from a "usually good, often a contender, never win the big one" team to a "SB threat essentially EVERY year" team.

 

[ScottyFargo]

It's misleading because Brees wasn't very good when he was younger. Three of the last five years he's played at an elite level.Put Ben on the Saints and I don't think they win 8 games.

With all due respect...I would liquidate my 401k and take OVER 7 wins with BR and last years Saints team.Say what you will about #'s and percentages, but generally speaking, the guy just wins.

No one remembers that when Ben took over the team, they were coming off a 6-10 season, had made very few major additions (save for Roethlisberger) and were 1-1 under Maddox that year before Tommy got hurt. 7-11 in their previous 18 games, Ben took over, they went 15-0 the rest of the way. And everyone talked about how he had such a great team around him, and that's why he won. Second season, he carries the team to the SB by playing out of his mind in all 3 playoff games, they win their first title in 25 years, and everyone says they won despite him. This year, he goes into the SB with no line, no running attack and plays phenomenal football (seriously, the best performance by a QB in the big game that I've seen in some time, and Warner was a close second) and wins the SB with a clutch 2:00 drive, and people claim he rode an all-time defense to a crown.Some people are just never going to give him his due. None of those people are fans of the 6-time Champion Steelers. That should say something. For anyone claiming we have a homer-riffic view of Ben, ask Kordell Stewart if Steeler fans blindly love their QBs no matter what. For the record, I think Pittsburgh has exactly three players that are among the top 3 at their position - Harrison, Polamalu, and Roethlisberger. I don't tout Ben because he's a Steeler, I tout him because he turned this team from a "usually good, often a contender, never win the big one" team to a "SB threat essentially EVERY year" team.

Half the QB's in the league could do that on a team that only allows 223 points over 16 games, which is what your homer glasses won't allow you to see.

 

[mudshark]

It's misleading because Brees wasn't very good when he was younger. Three of the last five years he's played at an elite level.Put Ben on the Saints and I don't think they win 8 games.

With all due respect...I would liquidate my 401k and take OVER 7 wins with BR and last years Saints team.Say what you will about #'s and percentages, but generally speaking, the guy just wins.

No one remembers that when Ben took over the team, they were coming off a 6-10 season, had made very few major additions (save for Roethlisberger) and were 1-1 under Maddox that year before Tommy got hurt. 7-11 in their previous 18 games, Ben took over, they went 15-0 the rest of the way. And everyone talked about how he had such a great team around him, and that's why he won. Second season, he carries the team to the SB by playing out of his mind in all 3 playoff games, they win their first title in 25 years, and everyone says they won despite him. This year, he goes into the SB with no line, no running attack and plays phenomenal football (seriously, the best performance by a QB in the big game that I've seen in some time, and Warner was a close second) and wins the SB with a clutch 2:00 drive, and people claim he rode an all-time defense to a crown.Some people are just never going to give him his due. None of those people are fans of the 6-time Champion Steelers. That should say something. For anyone claiming we have a homer-riffic view of Ben, ask Kordell Stewart if Steeler fans blindly love their QBs no matter what. For the record, I think Pittsburgh has exactly three players that are among the top 3 at their position - Harrison, Polamalu, and Roethlisberger. I don't tout Ben because he's a Steeler, I tout him because he turned this team from a "usually good, often a contender, never win the big one" team to a "SB threat essentially EVERY year" team.

Half the QB's in the league could do that on a team that only allows 223 points over 16 games, which is what your homer glasses won't allow you to see.

Shame there isn't a thread somewhere on these boards where the merits of QB's can be discussed.

 

[FUBAR]

Shame there isn't a thread somewhere on these boards where the merits of QB's can be discussed.

Just change the freakin' title already.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

It's misleading because Brees wasn't very good when he was younger. Three of the last five years he's played at an elite level.Put Ben on the Saints and I don't think they win 8 games.

With all due respect...I would liquidate my 401k and take OVER 7 wins with BR and last years Saints team.Say what you will about #'s and percentages, but generally speaking, the guy just wins.

No one remembers that when Ben took over the team, they were coming off a 6-10 season, had made very few major additions (save for Roethlisberger) and were 1-1 under Maddox that year before Tommy got hurt. 7-11 in their previous 18 games, Ben took over, they went 15-0 the rest of the way. And everyone talked about how he had such a great team around him, and that's why he won. Second season, he carries the team to the SB by playing out of his mind in all 3 playoff games, they win their first title in 25 years, and everyone says they won despite him. This year, he goes into the SB with no line, no running attack and plays phenomenal football (seriously, the best performance by a QB in the big game that I've seen in some time, and Warner was a close second) and wins the SB with a clutch 2:00 drive, and people claim he rode an all-time defense to a crown.Some people are just never going to give him his due. None of those people are fans of the 6-time Champion Steelers. That should say something. For anyone claiming we have a homer-riffic view of Ben, ask Kordell Stewart if Steeler fans blindly love their QBs no matter what. For the record, I think Pittsburgh has exactly three players that are among the top 3 at their position - Harrison, Polamalu, and Roethlisberger. I don't tout Ben because he's a Steeler, I tout him because he turned this team from a "usually good, often a contender, never win the big one" team to a "SB threat essentially EVERY year" team.

Half the QB's in the league could do that on a team that only allows 223 points over 16 games, which is what your homer glasses won't allow you to see.

In '05, he beat Denver and Indy on the road on the way to the Super Bowl and both of those teams had allowed the same or fewer points than Pittsburgh during the season. So, what was their excuse (and Manning's, for that matter)?

 

[Dexter Manley]

loving the Ben thread. FWIW, there's talk that TO is in Nashville right now. I now return you to the Ben Thread. Thanks for listening to this brief interruption.

And not to hijack, but I heard on Mike & Mike this morning something from Rosenhaus about T.O. is "negotiating with several teams" right now and hope to be signed by within a week or so. The Mikes called BS on it.

I read on PFT where TO and Rosy were spotted in Nashville.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Titans wouldn't surprise me as a destination for TO. They know their window with Collins is now and they have significant $$ freed up that would have gone to Haynesworth.

 

[ookook]

I would bet my entire 401k that Ted Thompson would not trade Rodgers for Ben.

Seriously.

 

[Phurfur]

I would bet my entire 401k that Ted Thompson would not trade Rodgers for Ben.

Seriously.

but would you have bet it a year ago?

 

[ookook]

BTW, comparing QB stats from teams with good defenses and good running games to those without is pretty silly IMHO.

Need to compare play-by-play in similar situations to have any meaning. Not to mention defense playing against.

Football Outsiders DVOA approaches this on several dimensions.

Ben is like 28th on DVOA. It is an average adjusted for defense and the like.

The ranking goes:

P.Manning

P.Rivers

D.Brees

M.Ryan

C.Pennington

K.Warner

J.Cutler

M.Schaub

E.Manning

T.Romo

J.Delhomme

D.McNabb

K.Collins

A.Rodgers

D.Garrard

J.Garcia

T.Jackson

J.Campbell

S.Wallace

M.Cassel

S.Rosenfels

J.Flacco

D.Orlovsky

T.Edwards

K.Orton

B.Favre

B.Roethlisberger

S.Hill

C.Palmer

T.Thigpen

G.Frerotte

D.Anderson

B.Griese

J.Russell

R.Fitzpatrick

M.Bulger

J.Kitna

D.Culpepper

M.Hasselbeck

That sums up how I feel about Ben: A product of the system, but not a top QB by any stretch of my imagination.

Set the guy and 3rd and long behind by 14 points all the time and he is goona woof like nobody's hound.

But the Steelers don't let that happen.

 

[ookook]

I would bet my entire 401k that Ted Thompson would not trade Rodgers for Ben.

Seriously.

but would you have bet it a year ago?

Perhaps. I am not saying I might not trade, but TT never would. Then or now.BUt if you are suggesting I might have had reservations about Rodgers going into last year you are correct, sir.

 

[Stillers Jr.]

The ranking goes.ManningP.RiversD.BreesM.RyanC.PenningtonK.WarnerJ.CutlerM.SchaubE.ManningT.RomoJ.DelhommeD.McNabbK.CollinsA.RodgersD.GarrardJ.GarciaT.JacksonJ.CampbellS.WallaceM.CasselS.RosenfelsJ.FlaccoD.OrlovskyT.EdwardsK.OrtonB.FavreB.RoethlisbergerS.HillC.PalmerT.ThigpenG.FrerotteD.AndersonB.GrieseJ.RussellR.FitzpatrickM.BulgerJ.KitnaD.CulpepperM.HasselbeckThat sums up how I feel about Ben

So let me get this straight..You are going on record saying that you think:Sage Rosenfels, Dan Orlovsky, Kyle Orton, Aaron Rodgers, Jason Campbell, Trent Edwards and Seneca Wallace (to name a few on your interesting list)are better QB's than BR??I will wait for your response before continuing to talk about TO being released.

 

[ookook]

I think we would be naive to think that data such as these are without error.

But cherry-picking those you did surely shows no bias, right?

From that list, Rodgers was probably a better passer last year the Ben.

Of course there is more to QB than passing, but that is where the Steelers protect Ben's weak passing game.

With that said, I think an argument to unbiased folks might be made that the following are better passers than Ben.

P.Manning

P.Rivers

D.Brees

M.Ryan

K.Warner

J.Cutler

M.Schaub

E.Manning

T.Romo

J.Delhomme

D.McNabb

K.Collins

A.Rodgers

 

[Chase Stuart]

It's misleading because Brees wasn't very good when he was younger. Three of the last five years he's played at an elite level.Put Ben on the Saints and I don't think they win 8 games.

With all due respect...I would liquidate my 401k and take OVER 7 wins with BR and last years Saints team.Say what you will about #'s and percentages, but generally speaking, the guy just wins.

No one remembers that when Ben took over the team, they were coming off a 6-10 season, had made very few major additions (save for Roethlisberger) and were 1-1 under Maddox that year before Tommy got hurt. 7-11 in their previous 18 games, Ben took over, they went 15-0 the rest of the way. And everyone talked about how he had such a great team around him, and that's why he won. Second season, he carries the team to the SB by playing out of his mind in all 3 playoff games, they win their first title in 25 years, and everyone says they won despite him. This year, he goes into the SB with no line, no running attack and plays phenomenal football (seriously, the best performance by a QB in the big game that I've seen in some time, and Warner was a close second) and wins the SB with a clutch 2:00 drive, and people claim he rode an all-time defense to a crown.Some people are just never going to give him his due. None of those people are fans of the 6-time Champion Steelers. That should say something. For anyone claiming we have a homer-riffic view of Ben, ask Kordell Stewart if Steeler fans blindly love their QBs no matter what. For the record, I think Pittsburgh has exactly three players that are among the top 3 at their position - Harrison, Polamalu, and Roethlisberger. I don't tout Ben because he's a Steeler, I tout him because he turned this team from a "usually good, often a contender, never win the big one" team to a "SB threat essentially EVERY year" team.

Roethlisberger was awesome in the beginning of his career. But he hasn't played at that level since.

 

[mudshark]

It's misleading because Brees wasn't very good when he was younger. Three of the last five years he's played at an elite level.Put Ben on the Saints and I don't think they win 8 games.

With all due respect...I would liquidate my 401k and take OVER 7 wins with BR and last years Saints team.Say what you will about #'s and percentages, but generally speaking, the guy just wins.

No one remembers that when Ben took over the team, they were coming off a 6-10 season, had made very few major additions (save for Roethlisberger) and were 1-1 under Maddox that year before Tommy got hurt. 7-11 in their previous 18 games, Ben took over, they went 15-0 the rest of the way. And everyone talked about how he had such a great team around him, and that's why he won. Second season, he carries the team to the SB by playing out of his mind in all 3 playoff games, they win their first title in 25 years, and everyone says they won despite him. This year, he goes into the SB with no line, no running attack and plays phenomenal football (seriously, the best performance by a QB in the big game that I've seen in some time, and Warner was a close second) and wins the SB with a clutch 2:00 drive, and people claim he rode an all-time defense to a crown.Some people are just never going to give him his due. None of those people are fans of the 6-time Champion Steelers. That should say something. For anyone claiming we have a homer-riffic view of Ben, ask Kordell Stewart if Steeler fans blindly love their QBs no matter what. For the record, I think Pittsburgh has exactly three players that are among the top 3 at their position - Harrison, Polamalu, and Roethlisberger. I don't tout Ben because he's a Steeler, I tout him because he turned this team from a "usually good, often a contender, never win the big one" team to a "SB threat essentially EVERY year" team.

Roethlisberger was awesome in the beginning of his career. But he hasn't played at that level since.

I wonder how good he would be with T.O. Someone should start a thread about that.

 

[Stillers Jr.]

I think we would be naive to think that data such as these are without error.

But cherry-picking those you did surely shows no bias, right?

From that list, Rodgers was probably a better passer last year the Ben.

Of course there is more to QB than passing, but that is where the Steelers protect Ben's weak passing game.

With that said, I think an argument to unbiased folks might be made that the following are better passers than Ben.

P.Manning

P.Rivers

D.Brees

M.Ryan

K.Warner

J.Cutler

M.Schaub

E.Manning

T.Romo

J.Delhomme

D.McNabb

K.Collins

A.Rodgers

Ummm, ok. I was just using the list you provided and scanned the ridiculous names you had ahead of BR is all. And they are ridiculous, you'd have to agree...which is why you qualified your statement to "passing".

I don't care about passing, throwing a ball through a tire or whatever. I care about playing the QB position and winning games. You can throw the prettiest spiral ever, but I don't care if you vomit on yourself when the chips are down and you need to make plays...

Bottom line for me anyway is...BR is behind P Manning, T Brady and maybe, Drew Brees at the QB position.

Back on topic...

I hope TO goes to the Ravens and does wonders for Uni-Brow Flacco's confidence.

 

[Stillers Jr.]

Roethlisberger was awesome in the beginning of his career. But he hasn't played at that level since.

I hope there is a joke in here somewhere...

 

[bryhamm]

BTW, comparing QB stats from teams with good defenses and good running games to those without is pretty silly IMHO.Need to compare play-by-play in similar situations to have any meaning. Not to mention defense playing against.Football Outsiders DVOA approaches this on several dimensions.Ben is like 28th on DVOA. It is an average adjusted for defense and the like.The ranking goes.ManningP.RiversD.BreesM.RyanC.PenningtonK.WarnerJ.CutlerM.SchaubE.ManningT.RomoJ.DelhommeD.McNabbK.CollinsA.RodgersD.GarrardJ.GarciaT.JacksonJ.CampbellS.WallaceM.CasselS.RosenfelsJ.FlaccoD.OrlovskyT.EdwardsK.OrtonB.FavreB.RoethlisbergerS.HillC.PalmerT.ThigpenG.FrerotteD.AndersonB.GrieseJ.RussellR.FitzpatrickM.BulgerJ.KitnaD.CulpepperM.HasselbeckThat sums up how I feel about Ben: A product of the system, but not a top QB by any stretch of my imagination. Set the guy and 3rd and long behind by 14 points all the time and he is goona woof like nobody's hound.But the Steelers don't let that happen.

I think we would be naive to think that data such as these are without error.But cherry-picking those you did surely shows no bias, right?From that list, Rodgers was probably a better passer last year the Ben.Of course there is more to QB than passing, but that is where the Steelers protect Ben's weak passing game.With that said, I think an argument to unbiased folks might be made that the following are better passers than Ben.P.ManningP.RiversD.BreesM.RyanK.WarnerJ.CutlerM.SchaubE.ManningT.RomoJ.DelhommeD.McNabbK.CollinsA.Rodgers

Sorry, but these posts are just all kinds of stupid

 

[ookook]

The problem with the "Ben wins games. Period." argument is that many others would have won those games.

I have watched him play a ton and I do not think he is a great QB. Sure, he has rings, but so does Trent Dilfer. And the similarities do not stop there.

I think he is on a team with a great defense, a really really good O-line, and a strong rushing game. All he has to do is not lose game to look good.

We can agree to disagree, but get out of town on the 3rd best QB in the league because it just ain't holding water.

He misses reads on long pass plays like you miss your mom. And he cannot hit covered receivers any better than I can hit my toilet.

Trent Dilfer my friend, Trent Dilfer.

[Edited to add that Trent has "ring" not "rings"]

 

[ookook]

BTW, comparing QB stats from teams with good defenses and good running games to those without is pretty silly IMHO.Need to compare play-by-play in similar situations to have any meaning. Not to mention defense playing against.Football Outsiders DVOA approaches this on several dimensions.Ben is like 28th on DVOA. It is an average adjusted for defense and the like.The ranking goes.ManningP.RiversD.BreesM.RyanC.PenningtonK.WarnerJ.CutlerM.SchaubE.ManningT.RomoJ.DelhommeD.McNabbK.CollinsA.RodgersD.GarrardJ.GarciaT.JacksonJ.CampbellS.WallaceM.CasselS.RosenfelsJ.FlaccoD.OrlovskyT.EdwardsK.OrtonB.FavreB.RoethlisbergerS.HillC.PalmerT.ThigpenG.FrerotteD.AndersonB.GrieseJ.RussellR.FitzpatrickM.BulgerJ.KitnaD.CulpepperM.HasselbeckThat sums up how I feel about Ben: A product of the system, but not a top QB by any stretch of my imagination. Set the guy and 3rd and long behind by 14 points all the time and he is goona woof like nobody's hound.But the Steelers don't let that happen.

I think we would be naive to think that data such as these are without error.But cherry-picking those you did surely shows no bias, right?From that list, Rodgers was probably a better passer last year the Ben.Of course there is more to QB than passing, but that is where the Steelers protect Ben's weak passing game.With that said, I think an argument to unbiased folks might be made that the following are better passers than Ben.P.ManningP.RiversD.BreesM.RyanK.WarnerJ.CutlerM.SchaubE.ManningT.RomoJ.DelhommeD.McNabbK.CollinsA.Rodgers

Sorry, but these posts are just all kinds of stupid

Stupid because you disagree or because those players were selected based on actual statistics instead of women's intuition?

 

[ookook]

BTW, comparing QB stats from teams with good defenses and good running games to those without is pretty silly IMHO.Need to compare play-by-play in similar situations to have any meaning. Not to mention defense playing against.Football Outsiders DVOA approaches this on several dimensions.Ben is like 28th on DVOA. It is an average adjusted for defense and the like.The ranking goes.ManningP.RiversD.BreesM.RyanC.PenningtonK.WarnerJ.CutlerM.SchaubE.ManningT.RomoJ.DelhommeD.McNabbK.CollinsA.RodgersD.GarrardJ.GarciaT.JacksonJ.CampbellS.WallaceM.CasselS.RosenfelsJ.FlaccoD.OrlovskyT.EdwardsK.OrtonB.FavreB.RoethlisbergerS.HillC.PalmerT.ThigpenG.FrerotteD.AndersonB.GrieseJ.RussellR.FitzpatrickM.BulgerJ.KitnaD.CulpepperM.HasselbeckThat sums up how I feel about Ben: A product of the system, but not a top QB by any stretch of my imagination. Set the guy and 3rd and long behind by 14 points all the time and he is goona woof like nobody's hound.But the Steelers don't let that happen.

I think we would be naive to think that data such as these are without error.But cherry-picking those you did surely shows no bias, right?From that list, Rodgers was probably a better passer last year the Ben.Of course there is more to QB than passing, but that is where the Steelers protect Ben's weak passing game.With that said, I think an argument to unbiased folks might be made that the following are better passers than Ben.P.ManningP.RiversD.BreesM.RyanK.WarnerJ.CutlerM.SchaubE.ManningT.RomoJ.DelhommeD.McNabbK.CollinsA.Rodgers

Sorry, but these posts are just all kinds of stupid

I would rather have any of those QBs leading my team than Ben with the exception of Collins (based on age and health).

 

[Grahamburn]

Did Lendale White stomp on a terrible towel in here or something?

 

[FUBAR]

Sorry, but these posts are just all kinds of stupid

Stupid because you disagree or because those players were selected based on actual statistics instead of women's intuition?

or stupid because they're off topic?

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Roethlisberger was awesome in the beginning of his career. But he hasn't played at that level since.

2007 down?

 

[Ghost Rider]

Back on topic...I hope TO goes to the Ravens and does wonders for Uni-Brow Flacco's confidence.

Oh, so now we are making fun of what football players look like? Stay classy, Steeler fan.

 

[mudshark]

Sorry, but these posts are just all kinds of stupid

Stupid because you disagree or because those players were selected based on actual statistics instead of women's intuition?

or stupid because they're off topic?

Eh, they should just change the thread title and delete all of those annoying T.O. posts.

 

[Sheriff66]

I think we would be naive to think that data such as these are without error.

But cherry-picking those you did surely shows no bias, right?

From that list, Rodgers was probably a better passer last year the Ben.

Of course there is more to QB than passing, but that is where the Steelers protect Ben's weak passing game.

With that said, I think an argument to unbiased folks might be made that the following are better passers than Ben.

P.Manning

P.Rivers

D.Brees

M.Ryan

K.Warner

J.Cutler

M.Schaub

E.Manning

T.Romo

J.Delhomme

D.McNabb

K.Collins

A.Rodgers

Ummm, ok. I was just using the list you provided and scanned the ridiculous names you had ahead of BR is all. And they are ridiculous, you'd have to agree...which is why you qualified your statement to "passing".

I don't care about passing, throwing a ball through a tire or whatever. I care about playing the QB position and winning games. You can throw the prettiest spiral ever, but I don't care if you vomit on yourself when the chips are down and you need to make plays...

Bottom line for me anyway is...BR is behind P Manning, T Brady and maybe, Drew Brees at the QB position.

Back on topic...

I hope TO goes to the Ravens and does wonders for Uni-Brow Flacco's confidence.

Nope

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

People are saying that a team with a shot to win it all this year should go after Owens.

But might it not be the other way around?

If your team is already horrible, you've got nothing to lose by bringing in TO. Maybe he'll sell some tickets.

But if your team has a legitimate shot at the Super Bowl, why take the risk of blowing the whole thing apart? I'd want TO as far away from my locker room as possible.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Roethlisberger was awesome in the beginning of his career. But he hasn't played at that level since.

2007 down?

Since the motorcycle, he hasn't been as good IMO. His best year was '07, but he's not consistently great like he used to be.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

It's misleading because Brees wasn't very good when he was younger. Three of the last five years he's played at an elite level.Put Ben on the Saints and I don't think they win 8 games.

With all due respect...I would liquidate my 401k and take OVER 7 wins with BR and last years Saints team.Say what you will about #'s and percentages, but generally speaking, the guy just wins.

No one remembers that when Ben took over the team, they were coming off a 6-10 season, had made very few major additions (save for Roethlisberger) and were 1-1 under Maddox that year before Tommy got hurt. 7-11 in their previous 18 games, Ben took over, they went 15-0 the rest of the way. And everyone talked about how he had such a great team around him, and that's why he won. Second season, he carries the team to the SB by playing out of his mind in all 3 playoff games, they win their first title in 25 years, and everyone says they won despite him. This year, he goes into the SB with no line, no running attack and plays phenomenal football (seriously, the best performance by a QB in the big game that I've seen in some time, and Warner was a close second) and wins the SB with a clutch 2:00 drive, and people claim he rode an all-time defense to a crown.Some people are just never going to give him his due. None of those people are fans of the 6-time Champion Steelers. That should say something. For anyone claiming we have a homer-riffic view of Ben, ask Kordell Stewart if Steeler fans blindly love their QBs no matter what. For the record, I think Pittsburgh has exactly three players that are among the top 3 at their position - Harrison, Polamalu, and Roethlisberger. I don't tout Ben because he's a Steeler, I tout him because he turned this team from a "usually good, often a contender, never win the big one" team to a "SB threat essentially EVERY year" team.

Roethlisberger was awesome in the beginning of his career. But he hasn't played at that level since.

With the notable exception of SB XL, he has when it's counted most. That's the measure of a "great" QB in my estimation. I don't really care if a guy puts up 22/26 for 400 yds and 5 TDs in a meaningless game against the Browns. Show me you can will a team to victory on the biggest stage. Show me you can carry an offense when the running game fails. Show me you can put a team on your back with 2:00 left and win the game. Show me you can make a play on 3rd and 12 when the protection breaks down and keep a drive alive and keep your team in it. Ben has done this over and over and over in big moments his whole career. That's why Steeler fans like him so much more than non-Steeler fans, they've seen it time and again. I vilified every QB the team has had since Bradshaw until this cat got to town. There's a reason I'm a Roethlisberger honk, and it's not just because he strapped on the black & gold. It's because he wins.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Roethlisberger was awesome in the beginning of his career. But he hasn't played at that level since.

2007 down?

Since the motorcycle, he hasn't been as good IMO. His best year was '07, but he's not consistently great like he used to be.

2006, I chalk up to the accident for sure.This year, if you watched the first 9-10 games, he was in fear for his life, and was getting hit before he could even look upfield. He played MUCH better down the stretch as the line began to gel a little bit.. I think he's going to be excellent next year if nothing odd interferes.

 

[G-King]

Roethlisberger was awesome in the beginning of his career. But he hasn't played at that level since.

2007 down?

Since the motorcycle, he hasn't been as good IMO. His best year was '07, but he's not consistently great like he used to be.

Where do I go to get TO info?? Stupid me- I saw the title and didnt want to read 9 pages. After skipping straight to the last page, I'm reading a "Big Ben suckfest" thread. What a waste of time.

 

[mudshark]

People are saying that a team with a shot to win it all this year should go after Owens.But might it not be the other way around?If your team is already horrible, you've got nothing to lose by bringing in TO. Maybe he'll sell some tickets.But if your team has a legitimate shot at the Super Bowl, why take the risk of blowing the whole thing apart? I'd want TO as far away from my locker room as possible.

Just not sure if he'd be content playing for a non-contender. Maybe if his options run out.BTW, how do you think Brian Westbrook's going to bounce back following his knee surgery? I think he's being ranked too high in early rankings. Non-ppr.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

The problem with the "Ben wins games. Period." argument is that many others would have won those games.I have watched him play a ton and I do not think he is a great QB. Sure, he has rings, but so does Trent Dilfer. And the similarities do not stop there. I think he is on a team with a great defense, a really really good O-line, and a strong rushing game. All he has to do is not lose game to look good.We can agree to disagree, but get out of town on the 3rd best QB in the league because it just ain't holding water. He misses reads on long pass plays like you miss your mom. And he cannot hit covered receivers any better than I can hit my toilet.Trent Dilfer my friend, Trent Dilfer.[Edited to add that Trent has "ring" not "rings"]

You are either fishing or nuts. If you watched him play a ton, you'd know his line was awful this year. AWFUL. And they had almost no running game to speak of much of the season. He almost never misses a read down field and he hits covered receivers beautifully.

 

[mudshark]

Roethlisberger was awesome in the beginning of his career. But he hasn't played at that level since.

2007 down?

Since the motorcycle, he hasn't been as good IMO. His best year was '07, but he's not consistently great like he used to be.

Where do I go to get TO info?? Stupid me- I saw the title and didnt want to read 9 pages. After skipping straight to the last page, I'm reading a "Big Ben suckfest" thread. What a waste of time.

I'd normally report it, but in this case the Admin's one of the biggest offenders. Just feel free to post whatever you want in here.

 

[3nOut]

Can someone please UN-merge these two unrelated threads? Chase, as an admin, you should know better.

 

[ookook]

Sorry, but these posts are just all kinds of stupid

Stupid because you disagree or because those players were selected based on actual statistics instead of women's intuition?

or stupid because they're off topic?

Well yeah. That part was a given. Although it took a whole lot of Big Ben off-topic posts before I decided to bite.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Why would the Rooneys have signed Roethlisberger to a 9-figure contract?

A) They're morons

B) They're known for throwing astronomical amounts of money at players that aren't worth it

C) Roethlisberger is a top-tier QB.

If you're answering A) or B), you know nothing about football, or at least about the 6-time Champion Steelers.

 

[ookook]

Alright, on topic.

I think TO to Titans has a real chance if Drew is willing to settle for a contract that does not line his own pocket (which I gues will never happen). Short-term. Laden with incentives and disincentives.

No reason this won't happen.

 

[ookook]

Why would the Rooneys have signed Roethlisberger to a 9-figure contract?A) They're moronsB) They're known for throwing astronomical amounts of money at players that aren't worth itC) Roethlisberger is a top-tier QB.If you're answering A) or B), you know nothing about football, or at least about the 6-time Champion Steelers.

Why did Ted Tompson sign Aaron Rodgers to a 66 million dollar contract?A) His is a moronB) His is known for throwing astronomical amounts of money at players that aren't worth itC) Rodgers is a top-tier QB Blah, blah, blah. Homey is as homey does.

 

[BroadwayG]

Can we update the thread title to something about Roethlisberger please? TIA.

 

[Courtjester]

Can someone please UN-merge these two unrelated threads? Chase, as an admin, you should know better.

 

[mudshark]

Can we update the thread title to something about Roethlisberger please? TIA.

Since this is acceptable, I'm ready to bump Roethisberger threads with T.O. news. I wonder how long that would last.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Why would the Rooneys have signed Roethlisberger to a 9-figure contract?A) They're moronsB) They're known for throwing astronomical amounts of money at players that aren't worth itC) Roethlisberger is a top-tier QB.If you're answering A) or B), you know nothing about football, or at least about the 6-time Champion Steelers.

Why did Ted Tompson sign Aaron Rodgers to a 66 million dollar contract?A) His is a moronB) His is known for throwing astronomical amounts of money at players that aren't worth itC) Rodgers is a top-tier QB Blah, blah, blah. Homey is as homey does.

66 million <<<<<<< 100+ million. And I think Rodgers has shown he's a pretty darned good player, probably worthy of that kind of $$. But you don't pay guys who are the 28th best QB in the league $100 million. Even Al "the Kraken" Davis knows that, let alone Dan Rooney.

 

[Maroney=Sped]

Owens is a HOF lock.

I've got him as, statistically, the #4 WR of all time.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=1486

Moss is younger, so by the time Moss is done, I suspect he'll pass TO. But he's in that Alworth/Largent/Harrison/Moss tier of automatics. The only way he doesn't get in first ballot is if he retires the same year as Moss or Harrison, and they choose to only induct one WR that year.

I have a simpler test for Owens' HoF credentials:Hall of FaME

See what you can't spell Hall of Fame without?

 

[Copeman]

Why would the Rooneys have signed Roethlisberger to a 9-figure contract?A) They're moronsB) They're known for throwing astronomical amounts of money at players that aren't worth itC) Roethlisberger is a top-tier QB.If you're answering A) or B), you know nothing about football, or at least about the 6-time Champion Steelers.

Why did Ted Tompson sign Aaron Rodgers to a 66 million dollar contract?A) His is a moronB) His is known for throwing astronomical amounts of money at players that aren't worth itC) Rodgers is a top-tier QB Blah, blah, blah. Homey is as homey does.

No. Rodgers is a good QB too, just not top tier like Ben from the 6-time Champion Steelers.