Cowher Holding Out For Giants Gig (1 Viewer)

[Limp Ditka]

Ex-Steelers RB Jerome Bettis said Thursday that Bill Cowher hasn't accepted a head coaching job the past couple of seasons because he's "holding out" for the Giants job.

New York is "where he always wanted to be," said Bettis. "The Mara family, he's been very close to them ... and was on the inside track -- before the Giants won the Super Bowl -- for that job." Bettis, who is tight with his former head coach, believes Cowher will end up coaching the Giants eventually. If Tom Coughlin misses the playoffs again next year, it could happen as soon as 2011.

 

[Avery]

I am obviously not rooting for the Giants to fail next year, but Cower would be a Hell of a consolation prize.

 

[PantherPower]

I think he's holding out for the Panthers job.

 

[IDrinkyourMilkshake]

Is Cowher really an upgrade over Coughlin?

 

[Avery]

Is Cowher really an upgrade over Coughlin?

Not if Coughlin wins the Superbowl next year.

 

[Texasmouth]

I think Cowah is waiting on the Carolina job.

I also think if the Giants fire Coughlin they are ######ed. The guy JUST won them a Super Bowl. Geez. Only New York.

 

[ScottyFargo]

I think Cowah is waiting on the Carolina job. I also think if the Giants fire Coughlin they are ######ed. The guy JUST won them a Super Bowl. Geez. Only New York.

Yeah, that's quite a thing to hold out waiting for the other shoe to drop. Geez.

 

[Avery]

I think Cowah is waiting on the Carolina job. I also think if the Giants fire Coughlin they are ######ed. The guy JUST won them a Super Bowl. Geez. Only New York.

Instead of just saying that New York is ######ed if they fire Coughlin, perhaps we should take a look inside the numbers.Looking at Coughlin's tenure there seems to be a disturbing pattern for Giants fans and sadly it's not Superbowls or post-season success.2004: Started 5-2 and finished the season 6-102005: Strong through season with 11-5 record and got shelled in the 1st round playoffs2006: Started 6-2 and finished 2-6 and lost in 1st round of playoffs2007: Superbowl season!!!2008: Started 11-1 and lost 4 out next 5 with quick, 1st round playoff exit2009: Started 5-0 and lost 8 of next 11 to miss the playoffsIt seems that the pattern isn't post-season success but a team that tends to collapse in the second half.So in his tenure as the Giants head coach his record is:Games 1-8: 30-10Games: 9-17: 17-23So the Giants often make the playoffs under Coughlin (4 out of 6 seasons) which is great. Many teams don't. But something about Coughlin's coaching style leads to the Giants swooning in the second half and usually exiting the playoffs quickly (1st round loss in 3 out of their 4 playoff years under Coughlin.)I'm not saying to fire Coughlin and bring in Cower right now, but for how many years does he get a pass for a fantastically memorable and improbably Superbowl run when the pattern is far less impressive?

 

[Sinrman]

I think Cowah is waiting on the Carolina job. I also think if the Giants fire Coughlin they are ######ed. The guy JUST won them a Super Bowl. Geez. Only New York.

I'm not entirely convinced of that. Last year I thought this was the case, but with Fox being kept this year AGAIN and not fired, I think the brass there is not in a rush to bring Cowher in. If they really wanted Cowher and Cowher had expressed interest, they would have fired Fox after last year or this year.

 

[Sweetness_34]

I think Cowah is waiting on the Carolina job. I also think if the Giants fire Coughlin they are ######ed. The guy JUST won them a Super Bowl. Geez. Only New York.

Instead of just saying that New York is ######ed if they fire Coughlin, perhaps we should take a look inside the numbers.Looking at Coughlin's tenure there seems to be a disturbing pattern for Giants fans and sadly it's not Superbowls or post-season success.2004: Started 5-2 and finished the season 6-102005: Strong through season with 11-5 record and got shelled in the 1st round playoffs2006: Started 6-2 and finished 2-6 and lost in 1st round of playoffs2007: Superbowl season!!!2008: Started 11-1 and lost 4 out next 5 with quick, 1st round playoff exit2009: Started 5-0 and lost 8 of next 11 to miss the playoffsIt seems that the pattern isn't post-season success but a team that tends to collapse in the second half.So in his tenure as the Giants head coach his record is:Games 1-8: 30-10Games: 9-17: 17-23So the Giants often make the playoffs under Coughlin (4 out of 6 seasons) which is great. Many teams don't. But something about Coughlin's coaching style leads to the Giants swooning in the second half and usually exiting the playoffs quickly (1st round loss in 3 out of their 4 playoff years under Coughlin.)I'm not saying to fire Coughlin and bring in Cower right now, but for how many years does he get a pass for a fantastically memorable and improbably Superbowl run when the pattern is far less impressive?

I swear there are fools out there that want their coach fired if they won 3 SBs in a row and then lost the 4th one because suddenly, it becomes a disturbing trend. Look at the whole body of work. 4 of 6 years in the playoffs; 1 SB win is pretty darn good. Do you even realize that Cowher was considered a choker before he actually won a SB? What would be his reputation if he never won that 1 SB? DO you realize how many years he went in Pitts where his records were average at best (7-9; 6-10 etc)? Yet, the Rooney family stuck with their coach through thick and thin and he eventually delivered. Continuity is HUGE to win the NFL and be a contender every year. As long as your team gets in or is contending for the playoffs in the final quarter of a year, that coach and team is doing well. This BS eliteness of fans that expect improvement and success every single year is just a reflection of what a bunch of whiners people have become in this country. Nothing makes them happy ever.

 

[drfeelgood]

I think Cowah is waiting on the Carolina job. I also think if the Giants fire Coughlin they are ######ed. The guy JUST won them a Super Bowl. Geez. Only New York.

I'm not entirely convinced of that. Last year I thought this was the case, but with Fox being kept this year AGAIN and not fired, I think the brass there is not in a rush to bring Cowher in. If they really wanted Cowher and Cowher had expressed interest, they would have fired Fox after last year or this year.

Fox was 12-4 last year. Why would he have been fired?

 

[shadyridr]

I dont get this. Coughlin has a better resume than Cowher

 

[shadyridr]

I think Cowah is waiting on the Carolina job. I also think if the Giants fire Coughlin they are ######ed. The guy JUST won them a Super Bowl. Geez. Only New York.

Without a doubt one of the best coaches in the NFL

 

[shadyridr]

I think Cowah is waiting on the Carolina job. I also think if the Giants fire Coughlin they are ######ed. The guy JUST won them a Super Bowl. Geez. Only New York.

Instead of just saying that New York is ######ed if they fire Coughlin, perhaps we should take a look inside the numbers.Looking at Coughlin's tenure there seems to be a disturbing pattern for Giants fans and sadly it's not Superbowls or post-season success.2004: Started 5-2 and finished the season 6-102005: Strong through season with 11-5 record and got shelled in the 1st round playoffs2006: Started 6-2 and finished 2-6 and lost in 1st round of playoffs2007: Superbowl season!!!2008: Started 11-1 and lost 4 out next 5 with quick, 1st round playoff exit2009: Started 5-0 and lost 8 of next 11 to miss the playoffsIt seems that the pattern isn't post-season success but a team that tends to collapse in the second half.So in his tenure as the Giants head coach his record is:Games 1-8: 30-10Games: 9-17: 17-23So the Giants often make the playoffs under Coughlin (4 out of 6 seasons) which is great. Many teams don't. But something about Coughlin's coaching style leads to the Giants swooning in the second half and usually exiting the playoffs quickly (1st round loss in 3 out of their 4 playoff years under Coughlin.)I'm not saying to fire Coughlin and bring in Cower right now, but for how many years does he get a pass for a fantastically memorable and improbably Superbowl run when the pattern is far less impressive?

Man you sound spoiledMy friend who is a Giants fan actually had the balls to say to me a few weeks ago "Man its tough being a Giants fan sometimes"

 

[shadyridr]

I think Cowah is waiting on the Carolina job. I also think if the Giants fire Coughlin they are ######ed. The guy JUST won them a Super Bowl. Geez. Only New York.

I'm not entirely convinced of that. Last year I thought this was the case, but with Fox being kept this year AGAIN and not fired, I think the brass there is not in a rush to bring Cowher in. If they really wanted Cowher and Cowher had expressed interest, they would have fired Fox after last year or this year.

Fox was 12-4 last year. Why would he have been fired?

His refusal to play Moore over Delhomme before it was too late cost them a playoff spot. But besides that I agree and think hes a very good coach.

 

[Johnny Ice]

I think Cowah is waiting on the Carolina job. I also think if the Giants fire Coughlin they are ######ed. The guy JUST won them a Super Bowl. Geez. Only New York.

Instead of just saying that New York is ######ed if they fire Coughlin, perhaps we should take a look inside the numbers.Looking at Coughlin's tenure there seems to be a disturbing pattern for Giants fans and sadly it's not Superbowls or post-season success.2004: Started 5-2 and finished the season 6-102005: Strong through season with 11-5 record and got shelled in the 1st round playoffs2006: Started 6-2 and finished 2-6 and lost in 1st round of playoffs2007: Superbowl season!!!2008: Started 11-1 and lost 4 out next 5 with quick, 1st round playoff exit2009: Started 5-0 and lost 8 of next 11 to miss the playoffsIt seems that the pattern isn't post-season success but a team that tends to collapse in the second half.So in his tenure as the Giants head coach his record is:Games 1-8: 30-10Games: 9-17: 17-23So the Giants often make the playoffs under Coughlin (4 out of 6 seasons) which is great. Many teams don't. But something about Coughlin's coaching style leads to the Giants swooning in the second half and usually exiting the playoffs quickly (1st round loss in 3 out of their 4 playoff years under Coughlin.)I'm not saying to fire Coughlin and bring in Cower right now, but for how many years does he get a pass for a fantastically memorable and improbably Superbowl run when the pattern is far less impressive?

I swear there are fools out there that want their coach fired if they won 3 SBs in a row and then lost the 4th one because suddenly, it becomes a disturbing trend. Look at the whole body of work. 4 of 6 years in the playoffs; 1 SB win is pretty darn good. Do you even realize that Cowher was considered a choker before he actually won a SB? What would be his reputation if he never won that 1 SB? DO you realize how many years he went in Pitts where his records were average at best (7-9; 6-10 etc)? Yet, the Rooney family stuck with their coach through thick and thin and he eventually delivered. Continuity is HUGE to win the NFL and be a contender every year. As long as your team gets in or is contending for the playoffs in the final quarter of a year, that coach and team is doing well. This BS eliteness of fans that expect improvement and success every single year is just a reflection of what a bunch of whiners people have become in this country. Nothing makes them happy ever.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Avery]

I think Cowah is waiting on the Carolina job. I also think if the Giants fire Coughlin they are ######ed. The guy JUST won them a Super Bowl. Geez. Only New York.

Instead of just saying that New York is ######ed if they fire Coughlin, perhaps we should take a look inside the numbers.Looking at Coughlin's tenure there seems to be a disturbing pattern for Giants fans and sadly it's not Superbowls or post-season success.2004: Started 5-2 and finished the season 6-102005: Strong through season with 11-5 record and got shelled in the 1st round playoffs2006: Started 6-2 and finished 2-6 and lost in 1st round of playoffs2007: Superbowl season!!!2008: Started 11-1 and lost 4 out next 5 with quick, 1st round playoff exit2009: Started 5-0 and lost 8 of next 11 to miss the playoffsIt seems that the pattern isn't post-season success but a team that tends to collapse in the second half.So in his tenure as the Giants head coach his record is:Games 1-8: 30-10Games: 9-17: 17-23So the Giants often make the playoffs under Coughlin (4 out of 6 seasons) which is great. Many teams don't. But something about Coughlin's coaching style leads to the Giants swooning in the second half and usually exiting the playoffs quickly (1st round loss in 3 out of their 4 playoff years under Coughlin.)I'm not saying to fire Coughlin and bring in Cower right now, but for how many years does he get a pass for a fantastically memorable and improbably Superbowl run when the pattern is far less impressive?

I swear there are fools out there that want their coach fired if they won 3 SBs in a row and then lost the 4th one because suddenly, it becomes a disturbing trend. Look at the whole body of work. 4 of 6 years in the playoffs; 1 SB win is pretty darn good. Do you even realize that Cowher was considered a choker before he actually won a SB? What would be his reputation if he never won that 1 SB? DO you realize how many years he went in Pitts where his records were average at best (7-9; 6-10 etc)? Yet, the Rooney family stuck with their coach through thick and thin and he eventually delivered. Continuity is HUGE to win the NFL and be a contender every year. As long as your team gets in or is contending for the playoffs in the final quarter of a year, that coach and team is doing well. This BS eliteness of fans that expect improvement and success every single year is just a reflection of what a bunch of whiners people have become in this country. Nothing makes them happy ever.

Well it sounds like you are insinuating that I'm a fool, elitist and a whiner. But no matter.If you read my post, I'm not calling for Coughlin to be fired, just taking a better look at his record in his tenure on the Giants. The numbers are the numbers and as much as I love him for the Superbowl run, facts are facts and the fact is the Giants swoon almost anually in the second half under Coughlin.Any response to the facts or just vague insinuation on fans expecting improvement every year which didn't have much to do with my limited analysis of Coughlin's Giants record.

 

[Avery]

I think Cowah is waiting on the Carolina job. I also think if the Giants fire Coughlin they are ######ed. The guy JUST won them a Super Bowl. Geez. Only New York.

Instead of just saying that New York is ######ed if they fire Coughlin, perhaps we should take a look inside the numbers.Looking at Coughlin's tenure there seems to be a disturbing pattern for Giants fans and sadly it's not Superbowls or post-season success.2004: Started 5-2 and finished the season 6-102005: Strong through season with 11-5 record and got shelled in the 1st round playoffs2006: Started 6-2 and finished 2-6 and lost in 1st round of playoffs2007: Superbowl season!!!2008: Started 11-1 and lost 4 out next 5 with quick, 1st round playoff exit2009: Started 5-0 and lost 8 of next 11 to miss the playoffsIt seems that the pattern isn't post-season success but a team that tends to collapse in the second half.So in his tenure as the Giants head coach his record is:Games 1-8: 30-10Games: 9-17: 17-23So the Giants often make the playoffs under Coughlin (4 out of 6 seasons) which is great. Many teams don't. But something about Coughlin's coaching style leads to the Giants swooning in the second half and usually exiting the playoffs quickly (1st round loss in 3 out of their 4 playoff years under Coughlin.)I'm not saying to fire Coughlin and bring in Cower right now, but for how many years does he get a pass for a fantastically memorable and improbably Superbowl run when the pattern is far less impressive?

Man you sound spoiledMy friend who is a Giants fan actually had the balls to say to me a few weeks ago "Man its tough being a Giants fan sometimes"

Not sure why I sound spoiled if I was just looking at Coughlin's record and asking the question. Again, not calling for him to be fired, not saying he sucks, the facts just seem to support that there is a pretty consistent pattern in the Giants record under him.I don't know why a simple look at Coughlin's record is imbuing such vitriol here.

 

[shadyridr]

I think Cowah is waiting on the Carolina job. I also think if the Giants fire Coughlin they are ######ed. The guy JUST won them a Super Bowl. Geez. Only New York.

Instead of just saying that New York is ######ed if they fire Coughlin, perhaps we should take a look inside the numbers.Looking at Coughlin's tenure there seems to be a disturbing pattern for Giants fans and sadly it's not Superbowls or post-season success.2004: Started 5-2 and finished the season 6-102005: Strong through season with 11-5 record and got shelled in the 1st round playoffs2006: Started 6-2 and finished 2-6 and lost in 1st round of playoffs2007: Superbowl season!!!2008: Started 11-1 and lost 4 out next 5 with quick, 1st round playoff exit2009: Started 5-0 and lost 8 of next 11 to miss the playoffsIt seems that the pattern isn't post-season success but a team that tends to collapse in the second half.So in his tenure as the Giants head coach his record is:Games 1-8: 30-10Games: 9-17: 17-23So the Giants often make the playoffs under Coughlin (4 out of 6 seasons) which is great. Many teams don't. But something about Coughlin's coaching style leads to the Giants swooning in the second half and usually exiting the playoffs quickly (1st round loss in 3 out of their 4 playoff years under Coughlin.)I'm not saying to fire Coughlin and bring in Cower right now, but for how many years does he get a pass for a fantastically memorable and improbably Superbowl run when the pattern is far less impressive?

Man you sound spoiledMy friend who is a Giants fan actually had the balls to say to me a few weeks ago "Man its tough being a Giants fan sometimes"

Not sure why I sound spoiled if I was just looking at Coughlin's record and asking the question. Again, not calling for him to be fired, not saying he sucks, the facts just seem to support that there is a pretty consistent pattern in the Giants record under him.I don't know why a simple look at Coughlin's record is imbuing such vitriol here.

did the giants not turn it on in the 2nd half the year they won the SB?

 

[Avery]

I think Cowah is waiting on the Carolina job. I also think if the Giants fire Coughlin they are ######ed. The guy JUST won them a Super Bowl. Geez. Only New York.

Instead of just saying that New York is ######ed if they fire Coughlin, perhaps we should take a look inside the numbers.Looking at Coughlin's tenure there seems to be a disturbing pattern for Giants fans and sadly it's not Superbowls or post-season success.2004: Started 5-2 and finished the season 6-102005: Strong through season with 11-5 record and got shelled in the 1st round playoffs2006: Started 6-2 and finished 2-6 and lost in 1st round of playoffs2007: Superbowl season!!!2008: Started 11-1 and lost 4 out next 5 with quick, 1st round playoff exit2009: Started 5-0 and lost 8 of next 11 to miss the playoffsIt seems that the pattern isn't post-season success but a team that tends to collapse in the second half.So in his tenure as the Giants head coach his record is:Games 1-8: 30-10Games: 9-17: 17-23So the Giants often make the playoffs under Coughlin (4 out of 6 seasons) which is great. Many teams don't. But something about Coughlin's coaching style leads to the Giants swooning in the second half and usually exiting the playoffs quickly (1st round loss in 3 out of their 4 playoff years under Coughlin.)I'm not saying to fire Coughlin and bring in Cower right now, but for how many years does he get a pass for a fantastically memorable and improbably Superbowl run when the pattern is far less impressive?

Man you sound spoiledMy friend who is a Giants fan actually had the balls to say to me a few weeks ago "Man its tough being a Giants fan sometimes"

Not sure why I sound spoiled if I was just looking at Coughlin's record and asking the question. Again, not calling for him to be fired, not saying he sucks, the facts just seem to support that there is a pretty consistent pattern in the Giants record under him.I don't know why a simple look at Coughlin's record is imbuing such vitriol here.

did the giants not turn it on in the 2nd half the year they won the SB?

I assume the question is rhetorical. Obviously, yes. 2007 was a fantastic year and a turn around for the ages.Pattern doesn't mean every single time and if you don't see the pattern in a .750 winning percentage in weeks 1-8 and a .425 winning percentage in week 9-17 in his tenure as the Giants coach, I don't know what other stats I can show you.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

Man, what is so great about Coughlin? Winning a SB buys you a few years, but the team has never won a post-season game with him outside of the "magical" season.

Cowher had reached four conference title games not counting his SB-winning season. He lost all those, which earned him the choker label...but you can't bye your way to the conference championship. You have to win playoff games. He can actually do something in the playoffs.

I understand that team can't ditch a guy right after he wins you a title. Gruden coasted for half a decade after his win. But I see Cowher as an upgrade over Coughlin.

Not that I care about the Gints, anyway. I always thought Cowher would want to go back to Cleveland.

 

[Jason Wood]

I have to say it's funny to think that some people actually think Tom Coughlin is a better head coach than Bill Cowher. That is RICH.

That said, I don't put much weight into this story. Coughlin would need to stumble mightily next year for this to even be in the offing, meanwhile Cowher is too smart to hold out for one particular job. I think he's holding out for the right SITUATION, which likely means any number of select jobs in locales he likes, with rosters he thinks can win quickly, for owners that he believes will give him long term support like the Rooneys did in Pittsburgh.

 

[rzrback77]

Probable tangent here, but why would Bettis feel the need to weigh in on Cowher's plans. Why do people discuss job openings that are not there. Isn't there enough pressure already just with the media and fan base on what is actually happening to feel the need to spout off about what ifs that are not even yours?

 

[Steel Dillo]

DO you realize how many years he went in Pitts where his records were average at best (7-9; 6-10 etc)?

Apparently neither do you or you wouldn't have brought this up.In 15 seasons, Cowher had a winning record in all but 4 years and one of those years was his last when he went 8-8.

1992 11-5

1993 9-7

1994 12-4

1995 11-5

1996 10-6

1997 11-5

1998 7-9

1999 6-10

2000 9-7

2001 13-3

2002 10-5

2003 6-10

2004 15-1

2005 11-5

2006 8-8

 

[Chase Stuart]

I assume the question is rhetorical. Obviously, yes. 2007 was a fantastic year and a turn around for the ages.

Pattern doesn't mean every single time and if you don't see the pattern in a .750 winning percentage in weeks 1-8 and a .425 winning percentage in week 9-17 in his tenure as the Giants coach, I don't know what other stats I can show you.

Don't you think this is due to the fact that the QB does this every year?NYG QBs, games 1 through 8, 2004 to 2009:

904/1547 (58.4%), 10,853 yards (7.01 Y/A, 226 Y/G), 74 TD, 40 INT, 6.81 adjusted yards per attempt

NYG QBs, games 9 through 16, 2004 to 2009

898/1583 (56.7%), 10,225 yards (6.45 Y/A, 213 Y/G), 60 TD, 52 INT, 5.73 adjusted yards per attempt

From '04 to '09, the league average among QBs in AY/A was 6.35; so the Giants went from a bit above average to a bit below average at QB, which corresponds very well to their record splits.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I dont get this. Coughlin has a better resume than Cowher

Based on what?Regular season : Cowher 149-90-1 .623 win % / Coughlin 123-101 .549 w%Playoffs : Cowher 12-9 .571 w% / Coughlin 8-7 .533 w%Cowher : 15 years, 10 playoff appearances, 9 division titles, 2 conference championships, 1 SB championshipCoughlin : 14 years, 8 playoff appearances, 5 division titles, 1 conference championship, 1 SB championshipI think Coughlin's a good coach and firing him would be a mistake, but as far as Coughlin having "a better resume", I can't find one single statistic to support that.

 

[ScottyFargo]

He's probably licking his chops just waiting for that Tomlin guy to get fired too, then. Imagine what Cowher could do with a team like Pittsburgh? It would be unreal.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Man, what is so great about Coughlin? Winning a SB buys you a few years, but the team has never won a post-season game with him outside of the "magical" season.

Cowher had reached four conference title games not counting his SB-winning season. He lost all those, which earned him the choker label...but you can't bye your way to the conference championship. You have to win playoff games. He can actually do something in the playoffs.

I understand that team can't ditch a guy right after he wins you a title. Gruden coasted for half a decade after his win. But I see Cowher as an upgrade over Coughlin.

Not that I care about the Gints, anyway. I always thought Cowher would want to go back to Cleveland.

No, he went 1-3 prior to 2006. They won it in '95 and were on the brink of dethroning the mighty Dallas dynasty until Neil Frigging O'Donnell threw the game away.

 

[Avery]

I assume the question is rhetorical. Obviously, yes. 2007 was a fantastic year and a turn around for the ages.

Pattern doesn't mean every single time and if you don't see the pattern in a .750 winning percentage in weeks 1-8 and a .425 winning percentage in week 9-17 in his tenure as the Giants coach, I don't know what other stats I can show you.

Don't you think this is due to the fact that the QB does this every year?NYG QBs, games 1 through 8, 2004 to 2009:

904/1547 (58.4%), 10,853 yards (7.01 Y/A, 226 Y/G), 74 TD, 40 INT, 6.81 adjusted yards per attempt

NYG QBs, games 9 through 16, 2004 to 2009

898/1583 (56.7%), 10,225 yards (6.45 Y/A, 213 Y/G), 60 TD, 52 INT, 5.73 adjusted yards per attempt

From '04 to '09, the league average among QBs in AY/A was 6.35; so the Giants went from a bit above average to a bit below average at QB, which corresponds very well to their record splits.

If the season splits record varies as significantly as form .750 to .425 winning % you will obviously see a drop in player and team performance in many categories to account for the vast disparity. Being to lazy to look, I'd bet that you'd not only see a drop in QB production in the second half from 2004 to 2009 but a drop in a number of statistical catagories from RB production, WR production, OL protection, as well as all sorts of defensive and special team stats stats.

I'm not sure why you are zeroing in on the QB position and saying a slight drop in production in that position has lead to a vast disparity in the Giants record unless it's just yet another easy excuse for someone to subtly bash Eli.

 

[Avery]

Probable tangent here, but why would Bettis feel the need to weigh in on Cowher's plans. Why do people discuss job openings that are not there. Isn't there enough pressure already just with the media and fan base on what is actually happening to feel the need to spout off about what ifs that are not even yours?

FYI, Bettis is part of the media now.

 

[Chase Stuart]

I assume the question is rhetorical. Obviously, yes. 2007 was a fantastic year and a turn around for the ages.

Pattern doesn't mean every single time and if you don't see the pattern in a .750 winning percentage in weeks 1-8 and a .425 winning percentage in week 9-17 in his tenure as the Giants coach, I don't know what other stats I can show you.

Don't you think this is due to the fact that the QB does this every year?NYG QBs, games 1 through 8, 2004 to 2009:

904/1547 (58.4%), 10,853 yards (7.01 Y/A, 226 Y/G), 74 TD, 40 INT, 6.81 adjusted yards per attempt

NYG QBs, games 9 through 16, 2004 to 2009

898/1583 (56.7%), 10,225 yards (6.45 Y/A, 213 Y/G), 60 TD, 52 INT, 5.73 adjusted yards per attempt

From '04 to '09, the league average among QBs in AY/A was 6.35; so the Giants went from a bit above average to a bit below average at QB, which corresponds very well to their record splits.

If the season splits record varies as significantly as form .750 to .425 winning % you will obviously see a drop in player and team performance in many categories to account for the vast disparity. Being to lazy to look, I'd bet that you'd not only see a drop in QB production in the second half from 2004 to 2009 but a drop in a number of statistical catagories from RB production, WR production, OL protection, as well as all sorts of defensive and special team stats stats.

I'm not sure why you are zeroing in on the QB position and saying a slight drop in production in that position has lead to a vast disparity in the Giants record unless it's just yet another easy excuse for someone to subtly bash Eli.

Not sure why you're saying the chicken laid the egg and not saying that the egg came before the chicken.And that's not a "slight" drop in production, unless you consider the record to be a slight drop, too.

 

[shadyridr]

I dont get this. Coughlin has a better resume than Cowher

Based on what?Regular season : Cowher 149-90-1 .623 win % / Coughlin 123-101 .549 w%Playoffs : Cowher 12-9 .571 w% / Coughlin 8-7 .533 w%Cowher : 15 years, 10 playoff appearances, 9 division titles, 2 conference championships, 1 SB championshipCoughlin : 14 years, 8 playoff appearances, 5 division titles, 1 conference championship, 1 SB championshipI think Coughlin's a good coach and firing him would be a mistake, but as far as Coughlin having "a better resume", I can't find one single statistic to support that.

You realize Coughlin spent a number of years coaching an expansion team to the playoffs

 

[shadyridr]

Man, what is so great about Coughlin? Winning a SB buys you a few years, but the team has never won a post-season game with him outside of the "magical" season. Cowher had reached four conference title games not counting his SB-winning season. He lost all those, which earned him the choker label...but you can't bye your way to the conference championship. You have to win playoff games. He can actually do something in the playoffs.I understand that team can't ditch a guy right after he wins you a title. Gruden coasted for half a decade after his win. But I see Cowher as an upgrade over Coughlin. Not that I care about the Gints, anyway. I always thought Cowher would want to go back to Cleveland.

Coughlin coached the Jaguars too

 

[Koya]

I think Cowah is waiting on the Carolina job.

I also think if the Giants fire Coughlin they are ######ed. The guy JUST won them a Super Bowl. Geez. Only New York.

Instead of just saying that New York is ######ed if they fire Coughlin, perhaps we should take a look inside the numbers.Looking at Coughlin's tenure there seems to be a disturbing pattern for Giants fans and sadly it's not Superbowls or post-season success.

2004: Started 5-2 and finished the season 6-10

2005: Strong through season with 11-5 record and got shelled in the 1st round playoffs

2006: Started 6-2 and finished 2-6 and lost in 1st round of playoffs

2007: Superbowl season!!!

2008: Started 11-1 and lost 4 out next 5 with quick, 1st round playoff exit

2009: Started 5-0 and lost 8 of next 11 to miss the playoffs

It seems that the pattern isn't post-season success but a team that tends to collapse in the second half.

So in his tenure as the Giants head coach his record is:

Games 1-8: 30-10

Games: 9-17: 17-23

So the Giants often make the playoffs under Coughlin (4 out of 6 seasons) which is great. Many teams don't. But something about Coughlin's coaching style leads to the Giants swooning in the second half and usually exiting the playoffs quickly (1st round loss in 3 out of their 4 playoff years under Coughlin.)

I'm not saying to fire Coughlin and bring in Cower right now, but for how many years does he get a pass for a fantastically memorable and improbably Superbowl run when the pattern is far less impressive?

Man you sound spoiledMy friend who is a Giants fan actually had the balls to say to me a few weeks ago "Man its tough being a Giants fan sometimes"

The expectations in NY are unreasonably high. It doesnt help that the Yanks can buy championships - they need to do it smartly, but they have a huge advantage over most teams - which makes the City expect winners all around to a degree. However, the Giants don't have that advantage (and hopefully never do, I'd hate to see Jerry Jones et al ruin the league by eliminating revenue sharing). As noted, 4 out of 6 in the playoffs with one of the greatest SB runs in NFL history is not a bad deal. In my lifetime, I have seen three SB rings... I often tell my friends that the Giants are my saving grace. A respected organization run by a great family that not only wins, but usually does it the right way... considering my other teams are the pathetic Mets and tough luck Islanders, thank goodness I have the Giants to root for.

But back to the point - NY is the greatest place in the world to win... but its not the best place to finish second by any stretch.

As to Cowher, I'd LOVE him to be here. Coughlin has what, 2 years on his contract? If the team does not perform well next year, why would the Giants re-up him if they could get Cowher for the next 5+ years? Its not like you see many lame duck coaches in the NFL.

Second, isnt there a good chance Coughlin retires after those 2 years anyway... if Cowher is as patient as he states, perhaps he will wait that long. Don't know.

 

[Avery]

I assume the question is rhetorical. Obviously, yes. 2007 was a fantastic year and a turn around for the ages.

Pattern doesn't mean every single time and if you don't see the pattern in a .750 winning percentage in weeks 1-8 and a .425 winning percentage in week 9-17 in his tenure as the Giants coach, I don't know what other stats I can show you.

Don't you think this is due to the fact that the QB does this every year?NYG QBs, games 1 through 8, 2004 to 2009:

904/1547 (58.4%), 10,853 yards (7.01 Y/A, 226 Y/G), 74 TD, 40 INT, 6.81 adjusted yards per attempt

NYG QBs, games 9 through 16, 2004 to 2009

898/1583 (56.7%), 10,225 yards (6.45 Y/A, 213 Y/G), 60 TD, 52 INT, 5.73 adjusted yards per attempt

From '04 to '09, the league average among QBs in AY/A was 6.35; so the Giants went from a bit above average to a bit below average at QB, which corresponds very well to their record splits.

If the season splits record varies as significantly as form .750 to .425 winning % you will obviously see a drop in player and team performance in many categories to account for the vast disparity. Being to lazy to look, I'd bet that you'd not only see a drop in QB production in the second half from 2004 to 2009 but a drop in a number of statistical catagories from RB production, WR production, OL protection, as well as all sorts of defensive and special team stats stats.

I'm not sure why you are zeroing in on the QB position and saying a slight drop in production in that position has lead to a vast disparity in the Giants record unless it's just yet another easy excuse for someone to subtly bash Eli.

Not sure why you're saying the chicken laid the egg and not saying that the egg came before the chicken.And that's not a "slight" drop in production, unless you consider the record to be a slight drop, too.

You seem to be narrowing down the possibilities to explain the disparity as either Coughlin or Eli. Why just look at the QB from the player performance standpoint. Why not look at the splits for RB performance, or WR performance, or OL protection, or DL pressure, or any other player category. (Which I'd be happy to do, but work calls.)If you see a drop in a number of player statistical categories either most of the players inexplicably start to perform worse in the second half or it is something about the current coaching regime for the Giants.

 

[metoo]

I think Cowah is waiting on the Carolina job. I also think if the Giants fire Coughlin they are ######ed. The guy JUST won them a Super Bowl. Geez. Only New York.

Carolina is cheap, they won't pay Cowher what it will take to get him.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I dont get this. Coughlin has a better resume than Cowher

Based on what?Regular season : Cowher 149-90-1 .623 win % / Coughlin 123-101 .549 w%Playoffs : Cowher 12-9 .571 w% / Coughlin 8-7 .533 w%Cowher : 15 years, 10 playoff appearances, 9 division titles, 2 conference championships, 1 SB championshipCoughlin : 14 years, 8 playoff appearances, 5 division titles, 1 conference championship, 1 SB championshipI think Coughlin's a good coach and firing him would be a mistake, but as far as Coughlin having "a better resume", I can't find one single statistic to support that.

You realize Coughlin spent a number of years coaching an expansion team to the playoffs

They were in the playoffs their second year of existence. I'm sure some of that was attributable to Coughlin, but it's not like he took a moribund franchise like the Lions and turned them into a winner. They were pretty much competitive from the get go, and a lot of that was by the NFLs design. Even if you take out the 4-12 season in their inaugural year, he still doesn't sniff Cowher's win %.And it isn't like Cowher waltzed into a dream job in Pittsburgh... the 7 seasons before his arrival saw 1 playoff berth and a 51-62 overall record. It could theoretically be argued that the Jags Coughlin inherited had as much talent on the roster as the Steelers Cowher inherited, at the very least by year 2.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

Man, what is so great about Coughlin? Winning a SB buys you a few years, but the team has never won a post-season game with him outside of the "magical" season.

Cowher had reached four conference title games not counting his SB-winning season. He lost all those, which earned him the choker label...but you can't bye your way to the conference championship. You have to win playoff games. He can actually do something in the playoffs.

I understand that team can't ditch a guy right after he wins you a title. Gruden coasted for half a decade after his win. But I see Cowher as an upgrade over Coughlin.

Not that I care about the Gints, anyway. I always thought Cowher would want to go back to Cleveland.

No, he went 1-3 prior to 2006. They won it in '95 and were on the brink of dethroning the mighty Dallas dynasty until Neil Frigging O'Donnell threw the game away.

Sorry, my mistake. I remember that game (and the onsides kick), and I also remember O'Donnell saying afterwards that we win and lose as a team, etc. And I'm thinking, aren't your teammates supposed to say that to make you feel better? Why are you saying it?

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

Probable tangent here, but why would Bettis feel the need to weigh in on Cowher's plans. Why do people discuss job openings that are not there. Isn't there enough pressure already just with the media and fan base on what is actually happening to feel the need to spout off about what ifs that are not even yours?

FYI, Bettis is part of the media now.

I'm sure that's why he does it. Players have to show they can get scoops like real media people in order to keep their jobs. This makes Bettis look "connected" and bring his media employers some credibility-- allegedly.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

I dont get this. Coughlin has a better resume than Cowher

Based on what?Regular season : Cowher 149-90-1 .623 win % / Coughlin 123-101 .549 w%

Playoffs : Cowher 12-9 .571 w% / Coughlin 8-7 .533 w%

Cowher : 15 years, 10 playoff appearances, 9 division titles, 2 conference championships, 1 SB championship

Coughlin : 14 years, 8 playoff appearances, 5 division titles, 1 conference championship, 1 SB championship

I think Coughlin's a good coach and firing him would be a mistake, but as far as Coughlin having "a better resume", I can't find one single statistic to support that.

You realize Coughlin spent a number of years coaching an expansion team to the playoffs

They were in the playoffs their second year of existence. I'm sure some of that was attributable to Coughlin, but it's not like he took a moribund franchise like the Lions and turned them into a winner. They were pretty much competitive from the get go, and a lot of that was by the NFLs design. Even if you take out the 4-12 season in their inaugural year, he still doesn't sniff Cowher's win %.And it isn't like Cowher waltzed into a dream job in Pittsburgh... the 7 seasons before his arrival saw 1 playoff berth and a 51-62 overall record. It could theoretically be argued that the Jags Coughlin inherited had as much talent on the roster as the Steelers Cowher inherited, at the very least by year 2.

Ask Tampa Bay or Seattle if the NFL learned any lessons from their expansion experience. Night and day.

 

[Wadsworth]

I think both Cowher and Coughlin have excellent resumes and I while I would rather have Cowher coaching my team I don't think that preferring Coughlin is laughable. The argument that Coughlin having had success with two teams is more impressive than Cowher's slightly more impressive success with one is reasonable.