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Crybaby owner won't #### (1 Viewer)

What should the commish do?

  • The rules are flawed. Take the top 6 teams regardless of division

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Stick with the rules that were agreed upon at the start of the season

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    0
OU#1

OU#1

Footballguy
Sorry to have to burden you guys with this one. I need some firepower to shut this guy up.

I have a crybaby owner who doesn't want to let it go that a team with a losing record from another division is going to the playoffs while his team with a winning record is not going to the playoffs. The rules at the beginning of the season were set that the top three teams in each division would have a six way playoff with the two division winners getting a week 14 bye. Whether the system that was put in place is right or wrong I don't think changing the rules is the way to go here. Sure the playoff teams could have been chosen differently and there's probably a better system than the top 3 in each 5 team division but IMHO that's the rule and the league should stick to it.

As the commish I don't know what to do with this guy. :thumbdown: Sadly this is just a fun league with a $100 buy in and minimal transaction costs. The average owner maybe spends $125 in the end.

His latest arguement is that the NFL doesn't let teams with losing records go to the playoffs...even wildcard teams. I think he is wrong here and I would like to get some examples of this if it has actually happened. He is also arguing his team is better than the other 7-6 owner in his division even though the rules state that the first tiebreaker is total points and the other 7-6 owner has a significant edge on total points. He is arguing that his 4-4 division record is better than the other 7-6 teams 3-5 division record. That's a whole nother post though...

If anybody is interested in what the divisions looks like:

Divison 1

10-3

8-5

7-6

7-6 <-Crybaby Owner

5-8

Division 2

10-3

6-7

5-8

5-8

2-11

 
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Mods if this is in the wrong forum please feel free to move.

Sadly I kinda felt bad for the guy and I agree it probably isn't right the way it is, but no way do I go changing rules after the season starts. Unless it's something that is so bad it absolutely needs to be changed.

Edit: Well let me say I felt bad for him after his first day of complaning but it's been non-stop since Sunday night and it's going to go on for the rest of the season the way it's looking.

 
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Terrible rule [can't change now]. I don't blame him for #####ing, but he should have known the rule [as bad as it is]

 
Uh, does this guy not watch the NBA or the NHL?

The answer is simple. Rule changes take place in the offseason. Clarifications / interpretations, if necessary, take place in season. He has no argument if the rules were clear and available to him all year. Open and shut deal.

 
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Step 1 - Call a league meeting; face-to-face.

Step 2 - Sit on top of him and hold his arms down.

Step 3 - stick grass up his nose until he says "I'm a little weiner" 10 times.

Step 4 - Don't let him back in the league.

 
Lol. I thought for a sec this was about my league

We have 16 teams, 4 teams in 4 divisions. The division winners each make the playoffs and are seeded 1-4. The next four are wildcards and are seeded 5-8.

This year we had a division winner that was 6-7. 2 teams in his division had one win until the last week of the season. We had a couple teams that were 7-6 miss the playoffs. But they don't ##### about it because they're not babies.

If they don't like it they should have had a better team.

 
agree with others - terrible rule, but you can't change it now.

Address it in the offseason.

 
You CANNOT change the rules now. It is what it is. Yes, it sucks that his 7-6 team isn't going while a 5-8 team is, but those are the rules. You cannot change them mid-stream, just to satisfy one crybaby, when everyone knew the rules going into the season. Tell him to shut up and stop whining.

 
he's right. you're wrong - or at least the rules are wrong. should be division winners plus 4 teams regardless of division with best record.

 
It's neither right nor wrong, it's just an arbitrary rule that is no better or worse than any other. Every possible playoff scenario can produce results that leaves some team feeling cheated. There is no "perfect" scenario that is fair to everyone at all times. So the only thing you can do as a commish is go by the rules as written. The rules say the 7-6 team misses the playoffs, so he misses the playoffs.

 
Terrible rules - the comish should know better. This is the first ten team/two division league that I've ever heard of that was run this way. :thumbup:

It should ALWAYS be the division winners and then the top 4 teams after that, regardless of division. You can go by "all play record", actual W-L, total points scored or whatever you wish, but at least let it be something less arbitrary than taking three out of five teams from a division just for the sake of taking three out of five teams from a division.

 
OU#1 said:
His latest arguement is that the NFL doesn't let teams with losing records go to the playoffs...even wildcard teams.
Click to expand...
Okay, so we know he's an idiot.(BTW, San Diego almost won their division with a 6-10 record last year. And yes they would have hosted a playoff game if that happened.)

edit: the 1990 New Orleans Saints made the playoffs at 8-8, but would have also made the playoffs with a losing record as there were no other 8-8 teams. Ask the crybaby what he thinks the NFL would have done if New Orleans finished at 7-9 and there were only 5 teams in the entire NFC with winning records.

He is also arguing his team is better than the other 7-6 owner in his division even though the rules state that the first tiebreaker is total points and the other 7-6 owner has a significant edge on total points. He is arguing that his 4-4 division record is better than the other 7-6 teams 3-5 division record.
Click to expand...
If he wants to argue that 4-4 is better than 3-5, I'll be happy to give him my 5th grade math trophy. But if he wants to argue that his division record is some kind of evidence that his team is better than a team that scored more points than his team.......then he's grasping at straws. Division Record doesn't mean as much in Fantasy Football as it does in the NFL.Bottom line: tell the crybaby, you agreed to these rules at the beginning of the season. Complaining about them now just makes you look like a loser.

 
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geoff8695 said:
Terrible rules - the comish should know better. This is the first ten team/two division league that I've ever heard of that was run this way. :lmao: It should ALWAYS be the division winners and then the top 4 teams after that, regardless of division. You can go by "all play record", actual W-L, total points scored or whatever you wish, but at least let it be something less arbitrary than taking three out of five teams from a division just for the sake of taking three out of five teams from a division.
Click to expand...
Wait, what's wrong with top X from each division? When you play a division-based schedule, it makes sense... you're playing mostly common opponents. It doesn't make sense that, should one division be stacked with awesome teams, the second place team gets penalized for finishing at or near .500 when a much weaker division gets its members rewarded for having cake opponents.Imagine a 12 team league split in two 6-team divisions, everyone plays intradivision twice and out of division for three games... one division has the good teams with great drafts and there's one owner that goes 13-0, next guy goes 7-6, so does the next, then some guys below .500. Other division has a few of good teams and some really lousy ones filled with Browns and Lions homers, maybe an owner that forgot his login and has the same roster every week filled with guys on IR. 12-1, 12-1, 8-5, 8-5, 0-13, 0-13. Does the 4th place 8-5 owner who beat up on a weak division necessarily deserve to make the playoffs at the expense of the 3rd place 7-6 owner who had a much tougher schedule? What if the 7-6 team outscored the 8-5 team? Maybe would have gone 13-0 against him weekly? If you're going to have an H2H league, and use divisions where you play divisional schedules, keeping the playoff determinations within the division makes sense.
 
Sarnoff said:
geoff8695 said:
Terrible rules - the comish should know better. This is the first ten team/two division league that I've ever heard of that was run this way. :lmao: It should ALWAYS be the division winners and then the top 4 teams after that, regardless of division. You can go by "all play record", actual W-L, total points scored or whatever you wish, but at least let it be something less arbitrary than taking three out of five teams from a division just for the sake of taking three out of five teams from a division.
Click to expand...
Wait, what's wrong with top X from each division? When you play a division-based schedule, it makes sense... you're playing mostly common opponents. It doesn't make sense that, should one division be stacked with awesome teams, the second place team gets penalized for finishing at or near .500 when a much weaker division gets its members rewarded for having cake opponents.Imagine a 12 team league split in two 6-team divisions, everyone plays intradivision twice and out of division for three games... one division has the good teams with great drafts and there's one owner that goes 13-0, next guy goes 7-6, so does the next, then some guys below .500. Other division has a few of good teams and some really lousy ones filled with Browns and Lions homers, maybe an owner that forgot his login and has the same roster every week filled with guys on IR. 12-1, 12-1, 8-5, 8-5, 0-13, 0-13. Does the 4th place 8-5 owner who beat up on a weak division necessarily deserve to make the playoffs at the expense of the 3rd place 7-6 owner who had a much tougher schedule? What if the 7-6 team outscored the 8-5 team? Maybe would have gone 13-0 against him weekly? If you're going to have an H2H league, and use divisions where you play divisional schedules, keeping the playoff determinations within the division makes sense.
Click to expand...
yes they are dumb rules. WC's should be based on total record, not in division record.
 
I agree it is a bad rule. I would not play in a league with such rules. He knew the rules when he joined the league, so that is his issue.

But, now is not the time to change the rules. That can be a rule change considered in the offseason.

 
Sarnoff said:
Wait, what's wrong with top X from each division? When you play a division-based schedule, it makes sense... you're playing mostly common opponents. It doesn't make sense that, should one division be stacked with awesome teams, the second place team gets penalized for finishing at or near .500 when a much weaker division gets its members rewarded for having cake opponents.
Click to expand...
By the same token, if you have a division-based schedule and you take "top X" from the same weak division you just described, wouldn't you be letting in some teams that might not have sniffed the playoffs if they'd played more games against the stronger division?
 
you dont change the rules after the start of a season.

tell him that you will change your rules when he provides a link to the rule that says an NFL team cannot make the playoffs.

 
He's a crybaby, and he needs to be made aware that your ruling is obviously that you go by the rules. If he keeps whining too long, call for a league vote on kicking him out for 2010 (or handle that however your bylaws say it should be handled).

I do think you should make him aware that he can lobby for a rule change for 2010 (unless your league has such an early cutoff for changes that it would be 2011 -- I've been in such a league). I do think it's a bad rule, but I think the bigger issue is 6 team playoffs in a 10 team league. There is nothing wrong with a 10 team league, but more than half the teams should NEVER make the playoffs. Play an extra week of regular season and have week 15 & 16 playoffs with no byes. If that isn't popular, at least change the rule to make the four wild cards true wild cards. The current rule is terrible.

 
Thanks for all the feedback guys.

I actually wish I would have set it up with the two division winners and then the next four best teams by win/loss then total points.

I just overlooked it at the start of the season because this league was really thrown together at the last minute.

Again I just don't want to chanage the rules mid-season even if the current rule sucks or not.

 
Mr. Retukes said:
Sarnoff said:
Wait, what's wrong with top X from each division? When you play a division-based schedule, it makes sense... you're playing mostly common opponents. It doesn't make sense that, should one division be stacked with awesome teams, the second place team gets penalized for finishing at or near .500 when a much weaker division gets its members rewarded for having cake opponents.
Click to expand...
By the same token, if you have a division-based schedule and you take "top X" from the same weak division you just described, wouldn't you be letting in some teams that might not have sniffed the playoffs if they'd played more games against the stronger division?
Click to expand...
Yes, that's the point of divisional play. If you're going to restrict H2H by using a divisional play schedule, common opponents is a pretty fair way to go about things.
 
Hipple said:
Sarnoff said:
geoff8695 said:
Terrible rules - the comish should know better. This is the first ten team/two division league that I've ever heard of that was run this way. :lmao: It should ALWAYS be the division winners and then the top 4 teams after that, regardless of division. You can go by "all play record", actual W-L, total points scored or whatever you wish, but at least let it be something less arbitrary than taking three out of five teams from a division just for the sake of taking three out of five teams from a division.
Click to expand...
Wait, what's wrong with top X from each division? When you play a division-based schedule, it makes sense... you're playing mostly common opponents. It doesn't make sense that, should one division be stacked with awesome teams, the second place team gets penalized for finishing at or near .500 when a much weaker division gets its members rewarded for having cake opponents.Imagine a 12 team league split in two 6-team divisions, everyone plays intradivision twice and out of division for three games... one division has the good teams with great drafts and there's one owner that goes 13-0, next guy goes 7-6, so does the next, then some guys below .500. Other division has a few of good teams and some really lousy ones filled with Browns and Lions homers, maybe an owner that forgot his login and has the same roster every week filled with guys on IR. 12-1, 12-1, 8-5, 8-5, 0-13, 0-13. Does the 4th place 8-5 owner who beat up on a weak division necessarily deserve to make the playoffs at the expense of the 3rd place 7-6 owner who had a much tougher schedule? What if the 7-6 team outscored the 8-5 team? Maybe would have gone 13-0 against him weekly? If you're going to have an H2H league, and use divisions where you play divisional schedules, keeping the playoff determinations within the division makes sense.
Click to expand...
yes they are dumb rules. WC's should be based on total record, not in division record.
Click to expand...
Why have divisions?Really? Honestly? Just switch to All-Play, Total Points, or whatever. Rank teams 1-12 every week and be done with it. Get rid of divisions, get rid of wild cards, get rid of head-to-head and opponents too.If you're going to have divisions, use them.Edit: I'm not arguing this guy isn't a crybaby, I'm saying that not only should the commish go by the rules, but the rules aren't "stupid" like is being thrown around here.
 
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I've been in a league that's had this set-up for years. One thing I have to say is that presumably if it goes by the same scheduling my league does, the schedule is unbalanced. In our league, you play each team in your own division twice and each team in the other division once. It's not a given, btw, that :lmao: 's team would've been as good as 7-6 if they were in the other division.

So there ya go.

-QG

 
I've been a league with those rules for seven years and nobody has ever complained about it. Win your division games and you have no problem. Look at the schedule and plan your match-ups.

QuizGuy66 is absolutely right that a team with a losing record in a one division can be better then a 7-6 team in a different division.

It really doesn't matter though. The baby knew the rules when he got in the league.

 
It is not a bad rule at all. Each team in the Conference was played twice so each team had a legit shot at each other equally. I used the word "Conference" because that is how the league is set up. There are not two division, they are two Conferences. And, much like the NFL and other leagues with Conferences, each stands as an individual entity rather than a combined system. Meaning, if each team in the AFC had division winners that were 7-9 with their wild card teams at 6-8, the NFC could not claim foul play or whine about it because the NFC has teams that are 10-6 not making the playoffs.

In the OP's league, one Conference was better overall this year, so what? The correct playoff teams are going to the playoffs. That said, the playoffs should also be inter-Conference playoffs. The 6-7 team should be playing the 5-8 team and then playing their Conferences winner to see who goes to the Super Bowl.

 
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All you can do is adhere to the rules in place for now. The "cry baby owner" as you put it, has a legit beef but there isn't much you can do about it now. The league can vote to change the rules for next year after this season is done.

 
Not a terrible rule, and even if it was, too bad. Absolutely no f'n way do you change the way the playoffs are decided after the regular season starts, nevermind when it's ending.

Tell him tough ####, don't play in H2H leagues if you can't handle it.

 
Incredibly dumb rule but it is what it is, you can't change it. Still his fault for obvioulsy only brining it up now, he should have read the rules before the draft and brought it up.

Vote on it for next year

 
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Never understood the point of divisions in fantasy football. The top X teams in the league should make the playoffs.

 
First things first: you cannot change the rules now. If the crybaby didn't like the rules he should have stated so before the season started. I have a feeling if he were the 5-8 team he wouldn't be whining.

Having said that I appear to be in the minority that don't have a problem with the rule as it is. Since they play in different divisions I assume they play different schedules. If that is the case then record really isn't an indicator of how good a team is and taking the top x teams from each division is fine.

However if you really want to take the best teams then you shoudl go by total points scored and leave the records out of it.

 
I don't like the rule but things like this happen in the NFL every year. Only it's division winners that get in with records worse than some 2nd or 3rd place teams in other divisions. Maybe next season you change the rule but for now - too bad.

 
Mr. Retukes said:
OU#1 said:
His latest arguement is that the NFL doesn't let teams with losing records go to the playoffs...even wildcard teams.
Click to expand...
Okay, so we know he's an idiot.(BTW, San Diego almost won their division with a 6-10 record last year. And yes they would have hosted a playoff game if that happened.)

edit: the 1990 New Orleans Saints made the playoffs at 8-8, but would have also made the playoffs with a losing record as there were no other 8-8 teams. Ask the crybaby what he thinks the NFL would have done if New Orleans finished at 7-9 and there were only 5 teams in the entire NFC with winning records.
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That's what I was going to point out. It's entirely possible in the NFL.
 
GB this game.

We have one commish who is changing a lineup because the team started Slaton and a guy on IR, causing him to lose and that winning team to get into the playoffs. Mind you he didn't have any other players available to replace the IR guy and this is a dynasty, and when he submitted the lineup he thought Slaton would play.

Playoffs in FF do strange things to people. Even if it's not for money.

 
Obviously can't change the rules now, but I'm curious why your first divisional tie-break is total pts ? In a league where the top 3 in each division get in, H2H record and divisional record would make more sense as the first two tie-breaks, no ? Then followed by total pts if you want.

In a division-heavy setup like this (which there is nothing wrong with, my league loves having divisions and H2H matchups), you need to make the H2H matchups and division games more important...having them as the first two tie-breaks accomplishes that.

The guy is SOL based on the ruls you have outlined...stick with them for this season, and change them as needed in the offseason.

Good luck.

 
This owner needs to shut-up ASAP. The rule was in-place before the season started. Due to that he has absolutely no leg to stand on. I'll go a step further and also call this owner a self-centered dope. To try to change a rule to purely benefit himself shows what type of person he is...one that is only concerned with his own well-being. Do you think this guy would say a word if he got in with a losing record?

 
Of course you can't change it now.

There's nothing wrong with the rule the way it is, and I think the people saying that it's a horrible rule are silly. If people want to cry about it, just change your "divisions" to "conferences" and that should take care of it.

 
We have a similar rule in our 12-team dynasty league, we have two conferences.. 2 divisions of 3 teams each in each conference. You play all division teams twice, and every other team once.

All division winners get in, and then 1 wild card for each conference.

This year, I had the 2nd most points... and went 8-5... and missed the playoffs, because I finished 2nd in my division, and tied for the wildcard, and the first tie break for that is head to head... which I lost.

There was a division winner in the other conference who went 5-8 and got into the playoffs. In the 3 years of our existance it's happened every year that a team with a losing record has got into the playoffs... (all from the same division, out of those 3 teams not one has ever finished at or above .500)

Fair or not, I can't really complain, because that's how the rules are written. No ones really ever complained. We do have realignment of the league scheduled every 3 years, so next year...

There is no way you can make a change at the end of a season, based on the results. If anything, make it a point to address in the offseason, take a poll from the rest of the league.

 
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KellysHeroes said:
do the teams in the same Division play each other more than the non-divisional teams?
Click to expand...
I am assuming they have a 13 week season, so I am saying each division team twice (8 games), and the other division once (5 games).
 
Conference play is different from division play. I still say only 4 teams should make the postseason, though.

Remember that in a true conference system, the only playoff game with a team from boh conferences is your league championship game.

 
Jimmy James said:
Conference play is different from division play. I still say only 4 teams should make the postseason, though. Remember that in a true conference system, the only playoff game with a team from boh conferences is your league championship game.
Click to expand...
They only have 2 'divisions'... with the rules set up the way they are, basically 2 conferences named as divisions.
 
The guy needs to shut it.

I'm playing a 6-7 division winner who is the 3rd seed in the playoffs. It's a money league at work. I was 7-6 and am the 6th seed, and I'm there only as the "points wildcard."

We have a 12-team league with three divisions. Six teams make the playoffs.

Each division winner makes the playoffs, then the next two teams with the best record from any division, then one "points wildcard" -- whatever team has the highest point total that didn't make the playoffs via its record.

I like this system.

 
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