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Cutler, Leinhart, Young, Rivers, Roth, Eli, A.Smith (1 Viewer)

Who will be the best fantaasy QB

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johnnybronco

Footballguy
rank them 1 to 7 of who you think will be the best "fantasy" QB in terms of career

1. Leinart - just way too many weapons

2. Cutler - Denver run game with a mind like Shanny, enough said

3. Rivers - LT won't be around forever, but Gates is young and that WR group is very young as well

4. Eli - don't like the support cast right now, will hurt til they find a legit WR2 and a starting RB after Tiki

5. Young - legs along with arm will get him some nice points

6. A.Smith - like his progress, but he is the least talented out of the bunch

7. Roethlisberger - Pitt will always be a run first team

I was setting this up as a poll, but messed up so ignore the poll aspect

 
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I pretty much agree with your rankings actually...

Except for the whole "Leinhart" and "Roth" parts...

I prefer to call them by their names.

 
I pretty much agree with your rankings actually...Except for the whole "Leinhart" and "Roth" parts...I prefer to call them by their names.
:lmao:The criteria here suck - is this for next year only or going forward in their career?
 
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rank them 1 to 7 of who you think will be the best1. Leinhart - just way too many weapons2. Cutler - Denver run game with a mind like Shanny, enough said3. Rivers - LT won't be around forever, but Gates is young and that WR group is very young as well4. Eli - don't like the support cast right now, will hurt til they find a legit WR2 and a starting RB after Tiki5. Young - legs along with arm will get him some nice points6. A.Smith - like his progress, but he is the least talented out of the bunch7. Roth - Pitt will always be a run first teamI was setting this up as a poll, but messed up so ignore the poll aspect
1. Leinart - Agree on weapons and his talent as well. 2. Roethlisberger - Your comment on Pitt only goes to show the dangers of conventional wisdom. He's a stud3. Young - Needs weapons, but he'll keep improving while the Titans add around him4. Rivers - Won't throw quite as much with LT2 around, but has been extremely impressive5. Cutler - Don't see how you can put him higher until you see him play a real game6. Eli Manning - Just tremendously overrated7. Alex Smith - I need to see more
 
The criteria here suck - is this for next year only or going forward in their career?
i thought that reading the post was part of the criteria in answering, and since under Eli's description it says after Tiki, common sense would dictate I meant long term. Also about LT not being around forever. Forever is not 5 weeks remaining in this year's schedule. Would be nice if people tried to stop bashing everybody and actually just responded to share some real football insight. You would think a mod knows better. :rolleyes:
 
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I like Rivers, and not just because I am a Chargers homer. A lot of these guys have looked good early in their careers, so it might be hard to distinguish them. AJ Smith has been one of the shrewdest managers in the league the last three or four years, and I think he will be able to continue to put a lot of quality parts around Rivers for as long as he is there, even after Tomlinson retires.

 
fixed the names, and I mean for their careers, not this year :D
Thanks.Here's my rankings:

1. Leinart - just way too many weapons, as long as the receivers stay together and the OL improves, and Leinert's experience keeps climbing, I see no reason he can't have a Manning/Palmer type of career.

2. Eli - this team will be built around Eli's arm one way or another - over an entire career, he and Leinert ar eclearly the cream of the crop here.

3. Rivers - LT won't be around forever, but Gates is young and that WR group is very young as well - agreed, but they are also always going to be a run first team. Marty-ball is not usually a great place for fantasy QBs, but it'll be good enough for him to be #3 on this list.

4. Young - legs along with arm will get him some nice points (agree, and the team's OL seems to be jelling - the legs are the biggest thing here - I could see him moving above Rivers if he averages 3-5 FPs on the ground)

5. Cutler - Denver run game with a mind like Shanny (agree - which is why he will be below these other guys - too many ball control games.

6. Roethlisberger - Pitt will always be a run first team (agree)

7. A.Smith - Gore = too good to work AS' arm

 
The criteria here suck - is this for next year only or going forward in their career?
i thought that reading the post was part of the criteria in answering, and since under Eli's description it says after Tiki, common sense would dictate I meant long term. Also about LT not being around forever. Forever is not 5 weeks remaining in this year's schedule. Would be nice if people tried to stop bashing everybody and actually just responded to share some real football insight. You would think a mod knows better. :rolleyes:
You would think someone asking for help would make it easy on the reader, not a "dissect the puzzle" game. And they might learn how to spell the players' names, too, when asking for help.A dynasty icon might have helped out, too.But, yeah, it's the mods fault when you make an unclear post.
 
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You would think someone asking for help would make it easy on the reader, not a "dissect the puzzle" game. And they might learn how to spell the players' names, too, when asking for help.A dynasty icon might have helped out, too.But, yeah, it's the mods fault when you make an unclear post.
lol this post just makes me laugh, spelling names are important, i got two commonly mispelled names wrong which makes my post faulty. is my grammar ok?Marc, just be a good mod and leave it alone and let people respond to the actual discussion at hand. Lately you've been going off topic quite a bit, just please leave people's post alone and let them actually have a discussion on football
 
johnnybronco, I didn't even READ your comments since I didn't know what the rankings were for.

I think it was incumbent on you to make it clear what the ranking criteria was - not up to me to figure out what you were asking.

 
fixed the names, and I mean for their careers, not this year :D
Thanks.2. Eli - this team will be built around Eli's arm one way or another - over an entire career, he and Leinert ar eclearly the cream of the crop here.
:confused: Eli and Leinart are CLEARLY the cream of the crop?

Eli Manning & Ben Roethisberger have been in the league for almost 3 full seasons. There's no more basic way to say this: Eli Manning has been a bad QB. Very bad. Ben Roethlisberger has been a very good QB. Historically good.

Now it's up to us to determine how this knowledge will translate to fantasy football. You've chosen to interpret the empiric evidence as Eli is clearly a better bet than a handful of very promising young QBs. That's an interesting conclusion. Is there some valid reasoning behind this prediction? At the very least, I'd like to find out why, upon taking this sizable leap of faith that Eli is a better bet than most on this list, it's such a clear distinction.

 
fixed the names, and I mean for their careers, not this year :D
Thanks.2. Eli - this team will be built around Eli's arm one way or another - over an entire career, he and Leinert ar eclearly the cream of the crop here.
:confused: Eli and Leinart are CLEARLY the cream of the crop?

Eli Manning & Ben Roethisberger have been in the league for almost 3 full seasons. There's no more basic way to say this: Eli Manning has been a bad QB. Very bad. Ben Roethlisberger has been a very good QB. Historically good.

Now it's up to us to determine how this knowledge will translate to fantasy football. You've chosen to interpret the empiric evidence as Eli is clearly a better bet than a handful of very promising young QBs. That's an interesting conclusion. Is there some valid reasoning behind this prediction? At the very least, I'd like to find out why, upon taking this sizable leap of faith that Eli is a better bet than most on this list, it's such a clear distinction.
Eli will be a better FANTASY QB because the team will be built around his arm. Big Ben is on a run-first team. Leinert and Eli are clearly the FANTASY cream of the crop - their teams will be firmly committed to funneling their offenses through their QBs' arms.Since this was a FANTASY question and not an NFL question, I stand by my comment. Eli did not play much in his first year. He was the #4 FF QB last year, He is the #13 FF QB this year. Big Ben was the #21 FF QB in 2004, #19 in 2005, #15 this year - all three years he has been below Eli in fantasy standing.

Any other questions? I'll be glad to answer.

 
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I am shocked that Eli is ranked so highly. He has been an ATROCIOUS quarterback much more than he has been productive. I like Eli Manning and hope he succeeds, but I must not be seeing the same things you guys are seeing that rate him so highly.

Also, where is Losman in this discussion? He is a 1st Round QB of the last three years and statistically, he has been as good or better than Smith, Eli, and Roethlisberger in 2006. At a minimum, he's been comparable to all 4.

Losman - 63.9%, 6.9 ypa, 10TD, 8 int / 1 rush TD - 5-6 record

Smith - 61.3%, 6.6ypa, 11TD, 8int / 1 rush TD - 5-6 record

Manning - 58.3%, 6.5ypa, 17TD, 15 ints / 0 Rush TDs - 6-5 record

Big Ben - 61.4%, 7.3 ypa, 12TD, 19 ints / o Rush TDs - 3-7 record

 
I am shocked that Eli is ranked so highly. He has been an ATROCIOUS quarterback much more than he has been productive.
In fantasy terms, an ineffective QB with no chance of losing his job is often a highly desirable fantasy QB. He will always be coming back in the fourth Q., he won't jump out to enough leads to be taken out of the game by his running game, and he will be flinging the ball despite mistakes - think Brett Favre, the early years.I also believe Eli will get better over the next couple of year - he WAS the #4 FF QB in his first year as a full time starter and, as bad as he is playing now, he is the #13 FF QB. Not bad for a third year player's FF prospects.As an "NFL" QB, my rankings would be remarkably different.
 
rank them 1 to 7 of who you think will be the best "fantasy" QB in terms of career1. Leinart - just way too many weapons2. Cutler - Denver run game with a mind like Shanny, enough said3. Rivers - LT won't be around forever, but Gates is young and that WR group is very young as well4. Eli - don't like the support cast right now, will hurt til they find a legit WR2 and a starting RB after Tiki5. Young - legs along with arm will get him some nice points6. A.Smith - like his progress, but he is the least talented out of the bunch7. Roethlisberger - Pitt will always be a run first teamI was setting this up as a poll, but messed up so ignore the poll aspect
Good question.If I had to draft them right now, I'd probably take Rivers first because I feel most comfortable with him. But it kind of depends on league structure, the rest of my team, etc. But I think Rivers is far the least likely to be a complete bust, and I think he has pretty good upside as well. It's hard not to be a decent fantasy QB in an offense that is top five in scoring, and the Chargers look like they'll be top five in scoring for a long time. LT is still in his prime, Gates, Parker, VJ, Floyd, and the entire OL are signed for the long term. (Except OG Deilman, but I expect him to be re-signed this year.) Add a speed WR and some OL depth from the draft in the next year or two, and this offense is set for a long time.1. Rivers -- by far the least downside, with pretty good upside.2. Leinart -- tremendous upside with those weapons, and is starting to play well.3. Roethlisberger -- he's had a hard time this year, but over the long term I think he'll be a very good QB.4. Young -- his rushing ability really helps.5. Cutler -- I could easily have ranked him #3 -- Roeth/Young/Cutler are all pretty close, but I'd like to see Cutler play a few games before moving him up.6. Manning -- will he still be an NFL starter five years from now? Probably, but it's not as certain as it is with the top few guys on the list.7. A. Smith -- I like Smith and hate to put him last, but I don't know which guy to rank him ahead of. Smith just doesn't have the physical skills of the other players on the list.
 
BTW, Brett Favre's forst two years inGB:

1992 gnb | 15 | 302 471 64.1 3227 6.9 18 13 | 47 198 1 |

| 1993 gnb | 16 | 318 522 60.9 3303 6.3 19 24 | 58 216 1 |

Eli's stats:

2004 nyg | 9 | 95 197 48.2 1043 5.3 6 9 | 6 35 0 |

| 2005 nyg | 16 | 294 557 52.8 3762 6.8 24 17 | 29 80 1 |

| 2006 nyg | 11 | 211 362 58.3 2345 6.5 17 15 | 15 9 0 |

1993 for Favre and 2006 for Eli (both players' third years in the league) are remarkably similar.

 
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I am shocked that Eli is ranked so highly. He has been an ATROCIOUS quarterback much more than he has been productive.
In fantasy terms, an ineffective QB with no chance of losing his job is often a highly desirable fantasy QB.
He has no chance of losing his job this year. If he keeps playing the way he's played in the last few games, he could lose it by mid-season next year. More likely, he'll be challenged in three or four years if he hasn't progressed very well by then.
 
BTW, Brett Favre's forst two years inGB:1992 gnb | 15 | 302 471 64.1 3227 6.9 18 13 | 47 198 1 || 1993 gnb | 16 | 318 522 60.9 3303 6.3 19 24 | 58 216 1 |Eli's stats: 2004 nyg | 9 | 95 197 48.2 1043 5.3 6 9 | 6 35 0 || 2005 nyg | 16 | 294 557 52.8 3762 6.8 24 17 | 29 80 1 || 2006 nyg | 11 | 211 362 58.3 2345 6.5 17 15 | 15 9 0 |1993 for Favre and 2006 for Eli (both players' third years in the league) are remarkably similar.
:popcorn: comparing a young, inconsistent QBs first few years to a bonafide hall of famer, this should be good
 
Why not? Noone knew Favre would have a job in year 8 after his third year - and his numbers were WORSE than Eli's are now.

What's your point?

 
What's your point?
Sorry, Marc, but what's yours? That Eli is guaranteed to be one of the best QBs of all time because he started better than one of the best of all time? I think your reasoning might be a little faulty on this one.
 
Those stats are nice and all...but one thing that stands out to me is that Favre had posted 60% passing both those years and Eli is YET to post above 60%.

I really think Eli is overated and everyone thinks he will be Archie or Peyton because its in his bloodline. Honestly, I think Eli will be a nice backup in the NFL...sadly I think that might take awhile to happen.

 
fixed the names, and I mean for their careers, not this year :D
Thanks.2. Eli - this team will be built around Eli's arm one way or another - over an entire career, he and Leinert ar eclearly the cream of the crop here.
:confused: Eli and Leinart are CLEARLY the cream of the crop?

Eli Manning & Ben Roethisberger have been in the league for almost 3 full seasons. There's no more basic way to say this: Eli Manning has been a bad QB. Very bad. Ben Roethlisberger has been a very good QB. Historically good.

Now it's up to us to determine how this knowledge will translate to fantasy football. You've chosen to interpret the empiric evidence as Eli is clearly a better bet than a handful of very promising young QBs. That's an interesting conclusion. Is there some valid reasoning behind this prediction? At the very least, I'd like to find out why, upon taking this sizable leap of faith that Eli is a better bet than most on this list, it's such a clear distinction.
Eli will be a better FANTASY QB because the team will be built around his arm. Big Ben is on a run-first team. Leinert and Eli are clearly the FANTASY cream of the crop - their teams will be firmly committed to funneling their offenses through their QBs' arms.Since this was a FANTASY question and not an NFL question, I stand by my comment. Eli did not play much in his first year. He was the #4 FF QB last year, He is the #13 FF QB this year. Big Ben was the #21 FF QB in 2004, #19 in 2005, #15 this year - all three years he has been below Eli in fantasy standing.

Any other questions? I'll be glad to answer.
First of all, we've all seen Eli play. Why would the Giants build around his arm? Why wouldn't the Steelers build around Roethlisberger's arm? Unlike the Giants, the Steelers have all of the following: a truly elite WR, an extremely talented young TE, and a 1st round WR coming into his own the past month or so. The future of the Steelers' passing game is much more promising than the Giants'.Kordell Stewart had a top 5 fantasy season early in his career too. How did that turn out for his fantasy prospects?

Long term, bet on the better QB...not the bad QB who put up one good fantasy season.

Other questions:

Did Adam & Eve have navels?

Why can't the Middle Eastern countries learn to govern themselves and let us off this gnawing anxiety?

Do we take our dreams too lightly?

Who found the following: the gateway to the Nile, the darkside of the moon and the spice route to India?

Does a piece of paper make two people more married?

If there were a cat and a Rembrandt in a burning house, would you save the cat or the Rembrandt?

How was Pervis Ellison drafted #1 overall?

 
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What's your point?
Sorry, Marc, but what's yours? That Eli is guaranteed to be one of the best QBs of all time because he started better than one of the best of all time? I think your reasoning might be a little faulty on this one.
MY point is that these first two years are no basis to say Eli will not be a good FF QB.Favre looked WORSE in his third year in the league than Eli looks now - should I go find some other successful FF QBs who looked bad in their second year as a starter?
 
BTW, Brett Favre's forst two years inGB:1992 gnb | 15 | 302 471 64.1 3227 6.9 18 13 | 47 198 1 || 1993 gnb | 16 | 318 522 60.9 3303 6.3 19 24 | 58 216 1 |Eli's stats: 2004 nyg | 9 | 95 197 48.2 1043 5.3 6 9 | 6 35 0 || 2005 nyg | 16 | 294 557 52.8 3762 6.8 24 17 | 29 80 1 || 2006 nyg | 11 | 211 362 58.3 2345 6.5 17 15 | 15 9 0 |1993 for Favre and 2006 for Eli (both players' third years in the league) are remarkably similar.
:lmao: Completion percentages as a whole have gone up over the past 10 years...Eli apparently did not get the memo.Favre: 64.1% & 60.9%Eli: 48.2%, 52.8% & 58.3%Let's not forget that Favre was one of the most mobile QBs in the league as a youngster too. I know you want to take actual talent and production out of the equation and just go with something ephemeral like "projected fantasy value", but is that wise? Especially when you don't know who will be surrounding Eli in the offense, who will be calling the plays, and who the head coach will be? Sure, fantasy production vs. actual NFL results has to be considered. But hazy fantasy projections surely do not trump actual talent...do they?Also, Eli = headcase. How does that factor into future fantasy production?
 
Other questions: Did Adam & Eve have navels?
No - their stomachs were smooth like Barbie's genitalia.
Why can't the Middle Eastern countries learn to govern themselves and let us off this gnawing anxiety?
They can - we just don't like the way they govern themselves and they are standing on all our oil so we think we have a right to go in there and tell them what to do.
Do we take our dreams too lightly?
DEFINITELY - dreams are unfulfilled wishes or anxieties - if we examined our dreams more, we would all be shuked less often.
Who found the following: the gateway to the Nile, the darkside of the moon and the spice route to India?
All were the same person - Nipsey Russel.
Does a piece of paper make two people more married?
The correct piece of paper, yeah. But you are equally married whether you drop puppy together or file joint taxes, so, apparently, the piece of paper = the baby in determining marriage. Unless you are gay - then all the papers and puppies in the world won't make you married in most states.
If there were a cat and a Rembrandt in a burning house, would you save the cat or the Rembrandt?
My Cat and My Rembrandt? Or someone else's? Considering I hate cats, and hate the dutch, I'd probably :popcorn: while they :hot:
How was Pervis Ellison drafted #1 overall?
He signed a pact with the same demon that sigend a pact with Ryan Leaf to be drafted in the first round.Anything else?
 
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Also something to take into consideration is the 1993 Packer's roster. Did Favre have many weapons at all? See for yourself...other than Sterling Sharpe I don't see anyone.

1993 Green Bay Packers Roster

Eli has an all-world RB in Barber, a great GL and 3rd Down RB in Jacobs, a top TE, a 1st round WR (a little headcase but shows some talent here and there).

Favre had Sharpe...

 
But hazy fantasy projections surely do not trump actual talent...do they?Also, Eli = headcase. How does that factor into future fantasy production?
1) all I am saying is that it is way too early to say Eli doesn't have "talent" - I think he has talent., but hasn't gotten a hang of the game yet like Ben and Rivers have.2) he's a headcase? I have not heard that - enlighten me (genuine question, not sarcastic).
 
Other questions: Did Adam & Eve have navels?
No - their stomachs were smooth like Barbie's genitalia.
Why can't the Middle Eastern countries learn to govern themselves and let us off this gnawing anxiety?
They can - we just don't like the way they govern themselves and they are standing on all our oil so we think we have a right to go in there and tell them what to do.
Do we take our dreams too lightly?
DEFINITELY - dreams are unfulfilled wishes or anxieties - if we examined our dreams more, we would all be shuked less often.
Who found the following: the gateway to the Nile, the darkside of the moon and the spice route to India?
All were the same person - Nipsey Russel.
Does a piece of paper make two people more married?
The correct piece of paper, yeah. But you are equally married whether you drop puppy together or file joint taxes, so, apparently, the piece of paper = the baby in determining marriage. Unless you are gay - then all the papers and puppies in the world won't make you married in most states.
If there were a cat and a Rembrandt in a burning house, would you save the cat or the Rembrandt?
My Cat and My Rembrandt? Or someone else's? Considering I hate cats, and hate the dutch, I'd probably :popcorn: while they :hot:
How was Pervis Ellison drafted #1 overall?
He signed apact with the same demon that sigend a pact with Ryan Leaf to be drafted in the first round.Anything else?
:hifive:
 
Also something to take into consideration is the 1993 Packer's roster. Did Favre have many weapons at all? See for yourself...other than Sterling Sharpe I don't see anyone.

1993 Green Bay Packers Roster

Eli has an all-world RB in Barber, a great GL and 3rd Down RB in Jacobs, a top TE, a 1st round WR (a little headcase but shows some talent here and there).

Favre had Sharpe...
Get off the comparison - that was not my point. My point is that it is too early to write off Eli's "talent" - not that Eli = Favre. I could grab any good FF qbs who had poor years in their second year as a starter.And, since Eli's surrounding cast is good, it stands to reason his FANTASY outlook is better (in the short term at least)

 
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He can have all the players around him, I don't believe in his hype at all. At best I think he'll be an average QB. He has a weak arm and seems to me that his issues "might" come from having to live up to his father and brother's hype.

Just my opinion on the kid...

 
He can have all the players around him, I don't believe in his hype at all. At best I think he'll be an average QB. He has a weak arm and seems to me that his issues "might" come from having to live up to his father and brother's hype. Just my opinion on the kid...
:thumbup:and my opinin differs. Thus, different rankings. Someone questioned my ranking Eli over Big Ben and couched it in NFL terms, not fantasy terms. Since this was a fantasy question, I gave a response.
 
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rank them 1 to 7 of who you think will be the best "fantasy" QB in terms of career1. Leinart - just way too many weapons2. Cutler - Denver run game with a mind like Shanny, enough said3. Rivers - LT won't be around forever, but Gates is young and that WR group is very young as well4. Eli - don't like the support cast right now, will hurt til they find a legit WR2 and a starting RB after Tiki5. Young - legs along with arm will get him some nice points6. A.Smith - like his progress, but he is the least talented out of the bunch7. Roethlisberger - Pitt will always be a run first teamI was setting this up as a poll, but messed up so ignore the poll aspect
Leinart-Fitz and Boldin put him at the topRivers-LT is getting all the TDs, but Rivers is still getting hisA. Smith-This guy is progressing nicely without very good WRs and without VD for most of the yearEli-Even if he sucks as an NFL QB he still throws plenty of TDsYoung-Fantasy wise as a two way threat he will score a lotCutler-We still need to see him play, but on potential alone he is ahead of RothRoth-Mediocre offense, Run first team, throws a lot of INTs, plus he is constantly banged upGrossman and Romo should be added IMO.
 
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But hazy fantasy projections surely do not trump actual talent...do they?Also, Eli = headcase. How does that factor into future fantasy production?
1) all I am saying is that it is way too early to say Eli doesn't have "talent" - I think he has talent., but hasn't gotten a hang of the game yet like Ben and Rivers have.
I'm going to have to pull out the old Yukon Cornelius on this one: "You eat what you want, I'll eat what I want." You like Eli, I think he's vastly overrated as an NFL QB and as a future fantasy stud. I'm OK with that. Re: Headcase. Let's see here:- Pulled a spoiled brat power play to avoid going to SD, a franchise which has been far from embarrassing. It was a move that lacked vision and forward thinking and smacked of lack of character and poor judgment. - Ensuing power play moved him from a very good situation in SD, to a pressure packed situation in NY...a situation for which he was entirely unsuited.- Thrust into a high profile NY QB role as a rookie, he flunked...thoroughly.- Last year, had an absolute meltdown at the end of the season.- This year, the meltdown simply started earlier in the season.- Watch his body language during games or listen to him speak. The man is riddled with confidence issues.
 
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You cannot have this discussion without Gradkowski, Romo and Frye included.

1. Romo, is doing it now and performs better than all the others

2. Vince Young, has some growing pains but is getting better game after game. His legs puts him up this high

3. Rivers, doing it now, shows poise and will only get better

4. Gradkowski, very intelligent young QB may not have the physical skills as the others but can make up for it with his smart. Gruden loves him.

4. Roth, not sure he should be this high, don't think he will ever be a fantasy force

5. Leinart, had issues coming out and they have not been answered, he has been a disappointment

6. Eli, he is not Payton and I think will turn out like David Carr and Joey Harrington only his name will keep him around longer

7. Frye, had not progressed enough to make it further up the list

8 A. Smith, not progressing as much as expected

9. Cutler, until he takes a snap in a real game he cannot be judged, I suspect his upper limits would be around Rivers.

Disclaimer: I have Romo, Rivers, Gradkowski, Frye and A. Smith in one or another of my leagues

 
Leinart -- easy choice

Cutler -- hand-picked for a top offense

Rivers -- could swap w/ Cutler, should get better if he gets a WR

Vince Young -- So far looks like a decent QB, good runner. Nuff said. Could easily end up the best of the bunch.

Roethlisberger -- If he can stay healthy he has QB15 downside

Manning -- seams are showing, team is aging

A Smith -- meh

 
But hazy fantasy projections surely do not trump actual talent...do they?Also, Eli = headcase. How does that factor into future fantasy production?
1) all I am saying is that it is way too early to say Eli doesn't have "talent" - I think he has talent., but hasn't gotten a hang of the game yet like Ben and Rivers have.
I'm going to have to pull out the old Yukon Cornelius on this one: "You eat what you want, I'll eat what I want." You like Eli, I think he's vastly overrated as an NFL QB and as a future fantasy stud. I'm OK with that. Re: Headcase. Let's see here:- Pulled a spoiled brat power play to avoid going to SD, a franchise which has been far from embarrassing. It was a move that lacked vision and forward thinking and smacked of lack of character and poor judgment. - Ensuing power play moved him from a very good situation in SD, to a pressure packed situation in NY...a situation for which he was entirely unsuited.- Thrust into a high profile NY QB role as a rookie, he flunked...thoroughly.- Last year, had an absolute meltdown at the end of the season.- This year, the meltdown simply started earlier in the season.- Watch his body language during games or listen to him speak. The man is riddled with confidence issues.
Not sure most of those demonstrate he is a "headcase"The refusal to go to SD, headcase.The rest, not sure there is anything objective showing he is a "headcase." He may not have the mental fortitude to be an NFL QB - and I kind of agreed with that since I say he hasn't gotten a hang of the game yet. There is nothing there, though, to think he is a "headcase." Ricky Williams, Cecil Collins, Laurence Phillips, Randy Moss, Terrel Owens - those guys are headcases.To clarify, I have no love for Eli -I do not particularly "like" him. I *do* believe, however, that he has enough talent to be a good FANTASY QB and I think it is way too early to write off his situation - the team seems committed to building a squad around Eli that takes advantage of his arm. In fantasy terms, that is a good thing. Eli could either go Leftwich (everything built for him to succeed and he still chunders even though he was a top draft pick) or he could go Palmer (everything built for him to succeed and he steps up just like they expected from their top draft pick)
 
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You cannot have this discussion without Gradkowski, Romo and Frye included.1. Romo, is doing it now and performs better than all the others2. Vince Young, has some growing pains but is getting better game after game. His legs puts him up this high3. Rivers, doing it now, shows poise and will only get better4. Gradkowski, very intelligent young QB may not have the physical skills as the others but can make up for it with his smart. Gruden loves him.4. Roth, not sure he should be this high, don't think he will ever be a fantasy force5. Leinart, had issues coming out and they have not been answered, he has been a disappointment6. Eli, he is not Payton and I think will turn out like David Carr and Joey Harrington only his name will keep him around longer7. Frye, had not progressed enough to make it further up the list8 A. Smith, not progressing as much as expected9. Cutler, until he takes a snap in a real game he cannot be judged, I suspect his upper limits would be around Rivers. Disclaimer: I have Romo, Rivers, Gradkowski, Frye and A. Smith in one or another of my leagues
LOL, Gradkowski won't even have a starting job next year....
 
rank them 1 to 7 of who you think will be the best "fantasy" QB in terms of career1. Leinart - just way too many weapons2. Cutler - Denver run game with a mind like Shanny, enough said3. Rivers - LT won't be around forever, but Gates is young and that WR group is very young as well4. Eli - don't like the support cast right now, will hurt til they find a legit WR2 and a starting RB after Tiki5. Young - legs along with arm will get him some nice points6. A.Smith - like his progress, but he is the least talented out of the bunch7. Roethlisberger - Pitt will always be a run first teamI was setting this up as a poll, but messed up so ignore the poll aspect
Isn't anybody else worried that Lienart might have a Steve Young type career? He is still standing behind one of the worst O-lines.. Maybe he won't reach his full potential until he leaves Arizona. How consistent will he be playing behind that line? Is he an every other week starter? Does Denny Green get the axe after this year? I like his talent but too many unanswered questions in Arizona. I would take Rivers over him at this point.
 
Not sure most of those demonstrate he is a "headcase"

The refusal to go to SD, headcase.

The rest, not sure there is anything objective showing he is a "headcase." He may not have the mental fortitude to be an NFL QB - and I kind of agreed with that since I say he hasn't gotten a hang of the game yet.

There is nothing there, though, to think he is a "headcase." Ricky Williams, Cecil Collins, Laurence Phillips, Randy Moss, Terrel Owens - those guys are headcases.

To clarify, I have no love for Eli -I do not particularly "like" him. I *do* believe, however, that he has enough talent to be a good FANTASY QB and I think it is way too early to write off his situation - the team seems committed to building a squad around Eli that takes advantage of his arm.

In fantasy terms, that is a good thing.

Eli could either go Leftwich (everything built for him to succeed and he still chunders even though he was a top draft pick)

or he could go Palmer (everything built for him to succeed and he steps up just like they expected from their top draft pick)
How many objective headcases are there? A professional athlete with confidence issues, specifically a NFL QB with a tendency to meltdown, that's the essence of headcase in professional sports. Cecil Collins & Laurence Phillips were dime store thugs. Headcase doesn't even begin to cover their maladies. Terrell Owens, Randy Moss & Ricky Williams are headcases of a different order. They have what it takes to be successful NFL players, and for the most part their production has been prodigious.And now we have a new bone of contention. Leftwich is a very good NFL QB who had very little in place to succeed. He's had possibly the worst weapons of any QB since he came into the league. His WRs drop passes, run the wrong routes and suffer repeated mental lapses while his TE's might as well have been Guards or Tackles. The Jags offensive playcalling has been horrendous since Leftwich entered the league. They've repeatedly failed to run on 1st & 2nd down and have asked Leftwich to keep bailing them out on 3rd & long. Even with all of this stacked against him, Leftwich has been an improving QB with a penchant for clutch play, smarts, good completion percentages, low turnover totals and unquestioned toughness. Eli Manning doesn't hold a candle to Byron Leftwich. Not only that, but Byron Leftwich will be a star in this league by this time next season. Book it.

 
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\Byron Leftwich will be a star in this league by this time next season. Book it.
Yes - we have a bone of contention - if you look at my analysis of Leftwich in the preseaosn this year and last, I was with you. This year, however, he showed the same penchant he had in his first year to make REALLY POOR decisions - and the playcalling has been GEARED the last two years for Leftwich to succeed - they got a new OC and three receivers all of whch was designed to use Leftwich's gun. The team has done EVEYthing to provide Leftwich with the tools to succeed - Leftwich was injured last year after starting strong and he chundered this year until getting "injured" again. It has been Leftwich who has been unable to take advantage of the system, not the system failing.Incidentally, you gave Eli poor marks for not hitting 60% completions - what are Leftwich's completion numbers?

As of this time next season, Leftwich won't be a Jag - he'll be a Redskin - and hopefully he will succeed in that system.

 
\Byron Leftwich will be a star in this league by this time next season. Book it.
Yes - we have a bone of contention - if you look at my analysis of Leftwich in the preseaosn this year and last, I was with you. This year, however, he showed the same penchant he had in his first year to make REALLY POOR decisions - and the playcalling has been GEARED the last two years for Leftwich to succeed - they got a new OC and three receivers all of whch was designed to use Leftwich's gun. The team has done EVEYthing to provide Leftwich with the tools to succeed - Leftwich was injured last year after starting strong and he chundered this year until getting "injured" again. It has been Leftwich who has been unable to take advantage of the system, not the system failing.Incidentally, you gave Eli poor marks for not hitting 60% completions - what are Leftwich's completion numbers?

As of this time next season, Leftwich won't be a Jag - he'll be a Redskin - and hopefully he will succeed in that system.
First of all, if you draft raw WRs in the 1st round, it doesn't mean you're helping that year's QB succeed. Reggie Williams has been nothing short of god-awful for all but 3 games of his career. Matt Jones has plenty of talent but has been nothing but a tease. Jimmy Smith was clearly on the downside. Marcedes Lewis was injured. And the playcalling has absolutely not been geared for anyone on the Jags offense to succeed. The playcalling has been and continues to be a problem. If you want to argue that the Jags are/were trying very hard to get Leftwich the weapons and environment to succeed, I'll certainly agree with you. They're trying, but so far they've failed -- utterly. The WRs are still a joke, the TE has yet to make an impact, and the playcalling is geared much more towards a Gerrard type QB than a Leftwich type. If the Yankees throw money at Carl Pavano & Jaret Wright, it doesn't mean they're addressing their pitching problems...though they've certainly tried.

And no, I didn't give Eli poor marks for not hitting 60% completions. I gave him poor marks for hitting a 1950's style 48% his rookie season, and poor 1960s style 53% his 2nd season...compared to 65% & 61% for your comparison, Brett Favre. Leftwich is right at 59% for his career -- with atrocious WRs & TEs attempting to catch those passes.

 
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Interesting that still no one has contributed another opinion on Losman.
Seriously. Even after someone threw Gradkowski and Frye into the mix.Maybe he'll warrant some attention by next year. Hell, maybe by next year he will head the class of '04. I like how he is developing, especially after having to listen to all the 'he's a jerk' and 'he sucks' comments the last 3 years. From all the hacks who read all the same stuff and simply regurgitated it. Give JP more then 1.5 seconds in the pocket and he may seriously out-pass and outperform everyone on the list.Sometimes I think football is becoming a beauty pageant; too many guys trying to swing from the same nut sack, followed closely by a dog pile on someone they heard from unreliable sources was too cocky. Last year Ben R walked on watter and won a SB. Now he is behind guys who have never taken an NFL snap. Next year it will be JP, and Madden will be moistening his lips ready to give out the Farve treatment.
 

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