Cutler of Vandy (1 Viewer)

[Jason Wood]

Jason, did you watch the whole game, or are you just going off the box score? Honest question.

Watched the game...why, did you honestly see "greatness" in the 6 of 17. I sure didn't.

 

[Jason Wood]

I love how you "experts" can dissect Cutler from a handful of snaps in an exhibition game with players he's never played with before. There were at least 3 drops for ~60 yards. The interception was a helluva play by a DB on a well thrown ball. Save your "expert analysis" for someone you've actually watched play for an extended period of time, Wood.

LOL...right, because the Senior Bowl game doesn't have huge ramifications on a QB's draft prospects. Two years ago it was Phil Rivers whose great game vaulted him into the Eli Manning stratosphere. Last year Jason Campbell went from mid round prospect to 1st rounder for the same reason. My point is, and WAS, that Cutler isn't, nor shouldn't be compared to Matt Leinart. That's all...and the fact that talking heads like Chris Mortensen are out there suggesting otherwise is almost criminal. I would think the ESPN editors would recognize the lack of journalistic integrity with that puff piece.

 

[Joseph]

Still breaking down the tape of the senior bowl, but the two things that stood out most to me about Cutler in the first quarter - arm strength is legit (we already knew that), and he really rushed his throws under any sort of pressure.

I still say He is the best Qb coming out this year.

Cutler = Losman.

Interesting point. Marv levy and the bills are reportedly ranking Cutler very high on their draft board...

 

[RnR]

I love how you "experts" can dissect Cutler from a handful of snaps in an exhibition game with players he's never played with before. There were at least 3 drops for ~60 yards. The interception was a helluva play by a DB on a well thrown ball. Save your "expert analysis" for someone you've actually watched play for an extended period of time, Wood.

My point is, and WAS, that Cutler isn't, nor shouldn't be compared to Matt Leinart. That's all...and the fact that talking heads like Chris Mortensen are out there suggesting otherwise is almost criminal. I would think the ESPN editors would recognize the lack of journalistic integrity with that puff piece.

... and you have nothing more than a few snaps in a fairly insignificant exhibition game to support your claims. That's probably the first you've seen of the guy. Don't act like you are an expert on his game. He's a 4 year starter... I've been at every home game, watched every televised road game, and listened to every road game that was televised. In other words, I've seen every game Cutler has played since high school. I know exactly what he is and isn't capable of. I find it hilarious to watch someone like you take in a few series from an exhibition game and try to tell me why this guy isn't good enough to be compared to Matt Leinart. Hmm... you must be right, and the numerous NFL scouts that agree with Mort must be wrong.

JASON WOOD = Super Scout.

 

[Jason Wood]

I love how you "experts" can dissect Cutler from a handful of snaps in an exhibition game with players he's never played with before. There were at least 3 drops for ~60 yards. The interception was a helluva play by a DB on a well thrown ball. Save your "expert analysis" for someone you've actually watched play for an extended period of time, Wood.

My point is, and WAS, that Cutler isn't, nor shouldn't be compared to Matt Leinart. That's all...and the fact that talking heads like Chris Mortensen are out there suggesting otherwise is almost criminal. I would think the ESPN editors would recognize the lack of journalistic integrity with that puff piece.

... and you have nothing more than a few snaps in a fairly insignificant exhibition game to support your claims. That's probably the first you've seen of the guy. Don't act like you are an expert on his game. He's a 4 year starter... I've been at every home game, watched every televised road game, and listened to every road game that was televised. In other words, I've seen every game Cutler has played since high school. I know exactly what he is and isn't capable of. I find it hilarious to watch someone like you take in a few series from an exhibition game and try to tell me why this guy isn't good enough to be compared to Matt Leinart. Hmm... you must be right, and the numerous NFL scouts that agree with Mort must be wrong.

JASON WOOD = Super Scout.

Hey Tecmo,You don't think the fact you've seen every one of his games maybe, just MAYBE, taints the neutrality of your opinion?

And other than Mort, I've not seen one solitary scouting report which contends he's in Leinart's echelon. You can't escape the facts of what he did and was unable to do, while at Vandy.

Time will tell, and if you noticed, I haven't suggested he can't/won't be drafted ahead of Vince Young. That's a distinct possibility [although I don't expect that to happen.]

 

[Dave Baker]

I think Cutler should do everything at his Pro day. His arm is too strong and he has good speed and mobility. As we inch closer to Draft day, too many will glare at his disappointing numbers at the Senior Bowl and it will behoove Cutler to give another impression like he left with those watching the practices last week.I like Cutler a lot. He has everything you need to become a solid NFL QB. of course, no way do I like him as much as Leinart. Leinart has proven far too much. Leinart handles pressure as well as anyone other than Young and Leinart's mobility is much better than people think. His progressions are another thing that separates Leinart.But I think Cutler should do well in the NFL.

 

[diesel7982]

I love how you "experts" can dissect Cutler from a handful of snaps in an exhibition game with players he's never played with before.  There were at least 3 drops for ~60 yards.  The interception was a helluva play by a DB on a well thrown ball.  Save your "expert analysis" for someone you've actually watched play for an extended period of time, Wood.

LOL...right, because the Senior Bowl game doesn't have huge ramifications on a QB's draft prospects. Two years ago it was Phil Rivers whose great game vaulted him into the Eli Manning stratosphere. Last year Jason Campbell went from mid round prospect to 1st rounder for the same reason. My point is, and WAS, that Cutler isn't, nor shouldn't be compared to Matt Leinart. That's all...and the fact that talking heads like Chris Mortensen are out there suggesting otherwise is almost criminal. I would think the ESPN editors would recognize the lack of journalistic integrity with that puff piece.

Not that I think Culter's game helped him by any means, but Rivers/Campbell vaulted up based on their practices, not their performance in the game itself. No scout is going to move a QB up or down based on an exhibition game. We're talking about a game where the QB plays with a system hes learned in a week, with WRs he's never played with. Any scout(or anyone else) for that matter, judging a QB based upon his senior bowl performance is shortsighted at best, idiotic at worst.

 

[Dave Baker]

I love how you "experts" can dissect Cutler from a handful of snaps in an exhibition game with players he's never played with before.  There were at least 3 drops for ~60 yards.  The interception was a helluva play by a DB on a well thrown ball.  Save your "expert analysis" for someone you've actually watched play for an extended period of time, Wood.

LOL...right, because the Senior Bowl game doesn't have huge ramifications on a QB's draft prospects. Two years ago it was Phil Rivers whose great game vaulted him into the Eli Manning stratosphere. Last year Jason Campbell went from mid round prospect to 1st rounder for the same reason. My point is, and WAS, that Cutler isn't, nor shouldn't be compared to Matt Leinart. That's all...and the fact that talking heads like Chris Mortensen are out there suggesting otherwise is almost criminal. I would think the ESPN editors would recognize the lack of journalistic integrity with that puff piece.

Not that I think Culter's game helped him by any means, but Rivers/Campbell vaulted up based on their practices, not their performance in the game itself. No scout is going to move a QB up or down based on an exhibition game.

Actually, I remember the talk about both of those guys had more to do with the game itself than with practices. And I disagree that a scout would not move a player up or down based on their Senior Bowl performance.

 

[Jason Wood]

I love how you "experts" can dissect Cutler from a handful of snaps in an exhibition game with players he's never played with before. There were at least 3 drops for ~60 yards. The interception was a helluva play by a DB on a well thrown ball. Save your "expert analysis" for someone you've actually watched play for an extended period of time, Wood.

LOL...right, because the Senior Bowl game doesn't have huge ramifications on a QB's draft prospects. Two years ago it was Phil Rivers whose great game vaulted him into the Eli Manning stratosphere. Last year Jason Campbell went from mid round prospect to 1st rounder for the same reason. My point is, and WAS, that Cutler isn't, nor shouldn't be compared to Matt Leinart. That's all...and the fact that talking heads like Chris Mortensen are out there suggesting otherwise is almost criminal. I would think the ESPN editors would recognize the lack of journalistic integrity with that puff piece.

Not that I think Culter's game helped him by any means, but Rivers/Campbell vaulted up based on their practices, not their performance in the game itself. No scout is going to move a QB up or down based on an exhibition game.

Actually, I remember the talk about both of those guys had more to do with the game itself than with practices. And I disagree that a scout would not move a player up or down based on their Senior Bowl performance.

Exactly Dave...in both cases those guys cemented their newfound grades with solid games after strong weeks of practice. Rivers, in particular.

 

[diesel7982]

I love how you "experts" can dissect Cutler from a handful of snaps in an exhibition game with players he's never played with before.  There were at least 3 drops for ~60 yards.  The interception was a helluva play by a DB on a well thrown ball.  Save your "expert analysis" for someone you've actually watched play for an extended period of time, Wood.

LOL...right, because the Senior Bowl game doesn't have huge ramifications on a QB's draft prospects. Two years ago it was Phil Rivers whose great game vaulted him into the Eli Manning stratosphere. Last year Jason Campbell went from mid round prospect to 1st rounder for the same reason. My point is, and WAS, that Cutler isn't, nor shouldn't be compared to Matt Leinart. That's all...and the fact that talking heads like Chris Mortensen are out there suggesting otherwise is almost criminal. I would think the ESPN editors would recognize the lack of journalistic integrity with that puff piece.

Not that I think Culter's game helped him by any means, but Rivers/Campbell vaulted up based on their practices, not their performance in the game itself. No scout is going to move a QB up or down based on an exhibition game.

Actually, I remember the talk about both of those guys had more to do with the game itself than with practices. And I disagree that a scout would not move a player up or down based on their Senior Bowl performance.

I believe youd be wrong in both cases Dave. How they played in the game(arm strength, reads, progressions, etc)...sure. How they performed stat-wise? Doesnt mean a thing.

 

[Dave Baker]

I love how you "experts" can dissect Cutler from a handful of snaps in an exhibition game with players he's never played with before.  There were at least 3 drops for ~60 yards.  The interception was a helluva play by a DB on a well thrown ball.  Save your "expert analysis" for someone you've actually watched play for an extended period of time, Wood.

LOL...right, because the Senior Bowl game doesn't have huge ramifications on a QB's draft prospects. Two years ago it was Phil Rivers whose great game vaulted him into the Eli Manning stratosphere. Last year Jason Campbell went from mid round prospect to 1st rounder for the same reason. My point is, and WAS, that Cutler isn't, nor shouldn't be compared to Matt Leinart. That's all...and the fact that talking heads like Chris Mortensen are out there suggesting otherwise is almost criminal. I would think the ESPN editors would recognize the lack of journalistic integrity with that puff piece.

Not that I think Culter's game helped him by any means, but Rivers/Campbell vaulted up based on their practices, not their performance in the game itself. No scout is going to move a QB up or down based on an exhibition game.

Actually, I remember the talk about both of those guys had more to do with the game itself than with practices. And I disagree that a scout would not move a player up or down based on their Senior Bowl performance.

I believe youd be wrong in both cases Dave. How they played in the game(arm strength, reads, progressions, etc)...sure. How they performed stat-wise? Doesnt mean a thing.

I would suggest the two are closely linked, at least more so than you think. The bottom line here is that Rivers and Campbell both came away from the game with scouts drooling. Not so with Cutler (of course, his practices might have meant enough).

 

[Dave Baker]

I love how you "experts" can dissect Cutler from a handful of snaps in an exhibition game with players he's never played with before.  There were at least 3 drops for ~60 yards.  The interception was a helluva play by a DB on a well thrown ball.  Save your "expert analysis" for someone you've actually watched play for an extended period of time, Wood.

LOL...right, because the Senior Bowl game doesn't have huge ramifications on a QB's draft prospects. Two years ago it was Phil Rivers whose great game vaulted him into the Eli Manning stratosphere. Last year Jason Campbell went from mid round prospect to 1st rounder for the same reason. My point is, and WAS, that Cutler isn't, nor shouldn't be compared to Matt Leinart. That's all...and the fact that talking heads like Chris Mortensen are out there suggesting otherwise is almost criminal. I would think the ESPN editors would recognize the lack of journalistic integrity with that puff piece.

Not that I think Culter's game helped him by any means, but Rivers/Campbell vaulted up based on their practices, not their performance in the game itself. No scout is going to move a QB up or down based on an exhibition game.

Actually, I remember the talk about both of those guys had more to do with the game itself than with practices. And I disagree that a scout would not move a player up or down based on their Senior Bowl performance.

I believe youd be wrong in both cases Dave. How they played in the game(arm strength, reads, progressions, etc)...sure. How they performed stat-wise? Doesnt mean a thing.

And I can't see how you'd say I was wrong when you then agreed with me in the very next line. Their performance in the game moved them up.

 

[MelvinTScupper]

Yes. Right after the Rose Bowl, Chris Simms FWIW was on saying he'd take Cutler over Leinart.

He's a very good QB that didn't the exposure playing for what's traditionally been a weak team.

J

[colin cowherd]honestly, who has this guy beaten? he wasn't even good in the Senior Bowl

[/cowherd]

 

[diesel7982]

I love how you "experts" can dissect Cutler from a handful of snaps in an exhibition game with players he's never played with before.  There were at least 3 drops for ~60 yards.  The interception was a helluva play by a DB on a well thrown ball.  Save your "expert analysis" for someone you've actually watched play for an extended period of time, Wood.

LOL...right, because the Senior Bowl game doesn't have huge ramifications on a QB's draft prospects. Two years ago it was Phil Rivers whose great game vaulted him into the Eli Manning stratosphere. Last year Jason Campbell went from mid round prospect to 1st rounder for the same reason. My point is, and WAS, that Cutler isn't, nor shouldn't be compared to Matt Leinart. That's all...and the fact that talking heads like Chris Mortensen are out there suggesting otherwise is almost criminal. I would think the ESPN editors would recognize the lack of journalistic integrity with that puff piece.

Not that I think Culter's game helped him by any means, but Rivers/Campbell vaulted up based on their practices, not their performance in the game itself. No scout is going to move a QB up or down based on an exhibition game.

Actually, I remember the talk about both of those guys had more to do with the game itself than with practices. And I disagree that a scout would not move a player up or down based on their Senior Bowl performance.

I believe youd be wrong in both cases Dave. How they played in the game(arm strength, reads, progressions, etc)...sure. How they performed stat-wise? Doesnt mean a thing.

And I can't see how you'd say I was wrong when you then agreed with me in the very next line. Their performance in the game moved them up.

Because the "poor performance" most people are referring to, is the 6 for 17, not how well he performed his duties.If he had gone 12 for 17 and played the exact same way, most would be all over him. Of course that begs the question, what would have caused the extra 6 completions.

All Im saying is, in a game where the QB has a week of experience with a system and the players, stats dont mean a thing.

 

[cstu]

Yes. Right after the Rose Bowl, Chris Simms FWIW was on saying he'd take Cutler over Leinart.

He's a very good QB that didn't the exposure playing for what's traditionally been a weak team.

J

[colin cowherd]honestly, who has this guy beaten? he wasn't even good in the Senior Bowl

[/cowherd]

Ask Joe.

 

[Dave Baker]

All Im saying is, in a game where the QB has a week of experience with a system and the players, stats dont mean a thing.

Stats may not, but the way he played does and should. How much is the next question.I thought Cutler played ok. Nothing spectacular and perhaps not as bad as others suggest. But he didn't look like he was anywhere close to Leinart or Young IMO.

 

[Chaos Commish]

All Im saying is, in a game where the QB has a week of experience with a system and the players, stats dont mean a thing.

Stats may not, but the way he played does and should. How much is the next question.I thought Cutler played ok. Nothing spectacular and perhaps not as bad as others suggest. But he didn't look like he was anywhere close to Leinart or Young IMO.

Right. In the Senior Bowl he didn't look anywhere near Leinart or Young, who didn't play in that game. It was late in the season when he had several performances that turned a lot of people's/scouts heads, not because Vandy was so good, but because he made many plays and throws that looked like they translated very nicely to the NFL.I'm high on this guy (high likely having a dual meaning), but his Senior Bowl performance was poor. Again, on very few plays, he flashed NFL talent. But as a whole he looked poor, not okay, not mediocre... poor.

I found this out there somewhere from the 03 Boller hype.

Link

During Senior Bowl week, you couldn't find a scout or personnel man with a bad word to say about Boller.

KFFL.com reports Cal QB Kyle Boller said on Friday (at combine) that he measured in at 6-foot-3 and 234 pounds. He said he’d like to play between 230 and 235 pounds. He won’t throw at the NFL Combine but will at his pro day on March 13.

Gil Brandt reports for NFL.com Cal QB Kyle Boller ran well at the NFL Combine Sunday. He ran in the low 4.6s. Brandt said Boller really helped himself a lot with his workout. As noted earlier though, he did not throw. Brandt said Boller was very, very good.

Len Pasquarelli of ESPN.com reports: QB Kyle Boller (California) helped his draft staus at the combine. One of the few top-shelf quarterbacks who didn't throw on Sunday but, when he ran in the 4.6s at 233 pounds, he had scouts sitting up in their seats. Boller was already moving up because of a solid week at Senior Bowl and, with a good campus workout, he could well nudge himself into the first round.

Profootballweekly.com reports QB Boller moves past Leftwich in some people’s eyes. Heading into the Combine, most draft services had USC’s Carson Palmer and Marshall’s Byron Leftwich ranked one-two, but even though he chose not to throw before pro scouts until his pro day, Cal QB Kyle Boller made a tremendous impression because of the workouts he did choose to participate in, as well as his interviews with both the teams and the media.

Draft2003.com reports: Kyle Boller, California -- Ran 4.58 in the 40... at 6-foot-3, 234 pounds... did not throw... but did exactly what he needed to do... which is make teams think... would not be surprised if he was rated in the Top-2 at his position on a few teams' boards... there is something about this kid that you can't measure on the field or in a personal workout... it usually is a sign of being a "Special" talent...

It is a little creepy, no?

 

[diesel7982]

I would have liked to see what Tedford could have done with Cutler, but yes, a little creepy.Main thing to like about Culter is that while he has all the physical tools, he has the leadership ability and underdog mentality that comes from being told hed have to play saftey in college and playing for a poor college team.

 

[rabidfireweasel]

I don't have a strong opinion on Cuter, because I just haven't seen enough of him, but I woud ike to clear up a little revisionist history going on here at FBG. In 2003, almost everyone on this board had Leftwich rated above PAlmer as a QB prospect. I heard that "it was the system", he only had one good year', "look at all that talent", "the one time he faced a rea D (K-State and CB Newman) he was terrible", Pac-10 is soft- blah blah blah. Many people prefered Boller and all his "moxie". Now, Boller is everyone's whipping boy and Palmer was a can't miss prospect.I guess it is like the NFL playoff comercial:36 months later-Time to get your story straight.

 

[cstu]

I don't have a strong opinion on Cuter, because I just haven't seen enough of him, but I woud ike to clear up a little revisionist history going on here at FBG. In 2003, almost everyone on this board had Leftwich rated above PAlmer as a QB prospect. I heard that "it was the system", he only had one good year', "look at all that talent", "the one time he faced a rea D (K-State and CB Newman) he was terrible", Pac-10 is soft- blah blah blah. Many people prefered Boller and all his "moxie". Now, Boller is everyone's whipping boy and Palmer was a can't miss prospect.

I guess it is like the NFL playoff comercial:

36 months later-

Time to get your story straight.

Even if Leftwich isn't better than Palmer, he's still a good QB in his own right. Palmer had a great year, but Leftwich was doing very well before he was injured. As far as Boller goes, his problems with accuracy and making reads were well know before the draft.

 

[diesel7982]

I don't have a strong opinion on Cuter, because I just haven't seen enough of him, but I woud ike to clear up a little revisionist history going on here at FBG. In 2003, almost everyone on this board had    Leftwich rated above PAlmer as a QB prospect. I heard that "it was the system", he only had one good year', "look at all that talent", "the one time he faced a rea D (K-State and CB Newman) he was terrible", Pac-10 is soft- blah blah blah. Many people prefered Boller and all his "moxie". Now, Boller is everyone's whipping boy and Palmer was a can't miss prospect.

I guess it is like the NFL playoff comercial:

36 months later-

Time to get your story straight.

Even if Leftwich isn't better than Palmer, he's still a good QB in his own right. Palmer had a great year, but Leftwich was doing very well before he was injured. As far as Boller goes, his problems with accuracy and making reads were well know before the draft.

But he can throw the ball 60 yards from his knees!

 

[ren hoek]

I don't have a strong opinion on Cuter, because I just haven't seen enough of him, but I woud ike to clear up a little revisionist history going on here at FBG. In 2003, almost everyone on this board had Leftwich rated above PAlmer as a QB prospect. I heard that "it was the system", he only had one good year', "look at all that talent", "the one time he faced a rea D (K-State and CB Newman) he was terrible", Pac-10 is soft- blah blah blah. Many people prefered Boller and all his "moxie". Now, Boller is everyone's whipping boy and Palmer was a can't miss prospect.

I guess it is like the NFL playoff comercial:

36 months later-

Time to get your story straight.

Even if Leftwich isn't better than Palmer, he's still a good QB in his own right. Palmer had a great year, but Leftwich was doing very well before he was injured. As far as Boller goes, his problems with accuracy and making reads were well know before the draft.

But he can throw the ball 60 yards from his knees!

 

[RnR]

I love how you "experts" can dissect Cutler from a handful of snaps in an exhibition game with players he's never played with before. There were at least 3 drops for ~60 yards. The interception was a helluva play by a DB on a well thrown ball. Save your "expert analysis" for someone you've actually watched play for an extended period of time, Wood.

My point is, and WAS, that Cutler isn't, nor shouldn't be compared to Matt Leinart. That's all...and the fact that talking heads like Chris Mortensen are out there suggesting otherwise is almost criminal. I would think the ESPN editors would recognize the lack of journalistic integrity with that puff piece.

... and you have nothing more than a few snaps in a fairly insignificant exhibition game to support your claims. That's probably the first you've seen of the guy. Don't act like you are an expert on his game. He's a 4 year starter... I've been at every home game, watched every televised road game, and listened to every road game that was televised. In other words, I've seen every game Cutler has played since high school. I know exactly what he is and isn't capable of. I find it hilarious to watch someone like you take in a few series from an exhibition game and try to tell me why this guy isn't good enough to be compared to Matt Leinart. Hmm... you must be right, and the numerous NFL scouts that agree with Mort must be wrong.

JASON WOOD = Super Scout.

Hey Tecmo,You don't think the fact you've seen every one of his games maybe, just MAYBE, taints the neutrality of your opinion?

And other than Mort, I've not seen one solitary scouting report which contends he's in Leinart's echelon. You can't escape the facts of what he did and was unable to do, while at Vandy.

Time will tell, and if you noticed, I haven't suggested he can't/won't be drafted ahead of Vince Young. That's a distinct possibility [although I don't expect that to happen.]

Yes, I think my opinion could be altered by the fact I've seen every game he has played. That's why I've been very careful to avoid giving my opinion in any of these Cutler threads. If you can find where I've offered an opinion on Cutler, let me know. I'm simply questioning your ability to form an intelligent opinion on a guy you've watched in a few series of an exhibition game.As for "not being able to escape the facts of what he was unable to do at Vandy", I'm not sure what you mean by this. Perhaps you are showing more ignorance on the subject? Vandy plays in the best conference in the nation with some of the strictest admission requirements this side of the Ivy League. That's no easy task. Vanderbilt has not had a winning season since 1982. Cutler led this team better than anyone in the school's history. He single handedly kept them afloat most every game in his tenure, almost taking them to a bowl game this season. If you can find one person to agree with you in saying he "failed" to do anything at Vandy, they're a fool.

There are several reports, including rotoworld.com, that suggest Leinart is hurting his stock by not participating in any of these offseason activities. Nothing is a sure thing at this point.

I'd like to offer you this final thought... If Jay Cutler was a 3-year starter at USC, we'd have him as a consensus top 5 pick at this point. If Matt Leinart was a 4-year starter at Vanderbilt, he'd be a 2nd day draft pick. And I like Leinart.

 

[Wildman]

Better late than never...Yes, Chaos has definitely been higher on Cutler than Leinart for quite awhile. I think Jason's statements about Leinart's accuracy and surrounding talent are a common viewpoint. They make sense upon initial viewing, but I'm going to play devil's advocate on this one: Certainly the argument that the typical starting NFL QB is surrounded by great talent is true. But there is a much narrower margin of difference in talent among NFL teams. There are a lot more teams in college football than in the NFL so the talent pool has a much greater range of talent--how can we argue the NFL has the best of the best but then say USC's team filled with NFL quality talent has not been a huge advantage for Leinart in comparison to a QB like Cutler? The assertion that Leinart is an accurate passer is something I disagree with based on breaking down several games. Leinart is an accurate college passer in a system designed to disguise his physical weaknesses. In the NFL accuracy means throwing the ball to the correct shoulder or side of the reciever in relation to the defener. In college accuracy isn't judged with that high of a standard: simply getting the ball to the receiver body so he can catch it is often good enough. Leinart has not mastered the skill of completing an accurate pass of intermediate to long range according to the more rigid NFL standard (I've seen Omar Jacobs and Brody Croyle do it this season, repeatedly). That leads to arm strength. Is the lack of NFL pinpoint accuracy an issue with Leinart's arm strength? I believe so. Leinart can throw the ball 40 yards in the air, but not with out placing a lot of air under the ball. He's very inaccurate. Often times the quality of this throw makes the ball difficult to catch because the result isn't a spiral (and fluttering balls can be inaccurate balss too). Receivers repeatedly had to slow down to adjust to these passes in several games (Arkansas, Hawaii, Fresno State, and Notre Dame) and this cost USC touchdowns. Yes, I know that sounds silly but let's carry this over to an NFL team where the talent margin has narrowed considerably. Missing on 2-3 opportunities game where the WR has clearly beaten the DB one on one and the defense has bit on a 1st down play fake (generally the situation where USC has Leinart throw deep), can cost said NFL team the ball game. Leinart's clutch throw to Jarrett? Yes, a clutch decision but not a good throw. He was fortunate to complete this pass. Why? Whip out your TIVO, DVD, or VCR and watch that play again. First, Leinart throws the ball 25 yards in the air, but to the wrong shoulder--the inside shoulder. Why is this wrong? The ND CB is on the inside shoulder of Jarrett. Jarrett ran a good route by getting the CB in this position so he could have room between himself and the sideline to create more separation and allow Leinart to throw the ball to his outside shoulder. A throw to the outside shoulder allows Jarrett to take advantage of his spacing from the sideline to make a last second adjustment and create lateral separation from he and the DB. People always think separation is about speed and quickness, it's also about positioning and setting up positioning on a route. Steve Largent would never have made it in the NFL if this weren't the case. Back to the subject, Leinart's throw goes to the wrong shoulder and is underthrown. The CB expected Leinart to throw the ball over the outside shoulder but the ball was underthrown and this mean the CB was late getting his head back around to the location of the ball and he just missed batting away the ball as it landed on Jarrett's inside shoulder. Sorry, but I just have a lot of trouble believing Leinart meant to do that when Jarrett had a huge amount of space between his outside shoudler and the sideline. Leinart messed up and luckily the CB was anticipating a good throw. This is just one play, but I can list far more. For example, Bush on a deep pass (thrown more air than a Jeff Blake bomb, but without the zip) had to slow down, allow the covering DB to catch up to him, cut inside, and make a leaping reception on a 40-45 yard play vs. Arkansas. If Cutler, Jacobs, or Croyle threw that ball it's a TD. Leinart has toughness, decent feet (moves better in the pocket and on designed rollouts than many think), and smarts. But I think he's physically limited by his arm and will need time to adjust and a team that doesn't need him to do more than manage a football game. If he can improve his arm strength two years removed from surgery then he has a chance to be a very good starter. Cutler has the physical tools and toughness to be a franchise QB. Like Losman, he was a one man show and this can create some bad habits, impatience, poor timing, etc. This was on display at the Senior Bowl under live fire. He'll need time to break the tendencies he had developed to survive at Vandy. It may never happen. Good reasons why both are risks. Both are coming from different directions, but have a similar level of risk.

 

[CA_7]

A Cutler above

By Charles Robinson, Yahoo! Sports

February 17, 2006

By the time his last Senior Bowl practice had wrapped up in January, the NFL draft's magic carpet had already whisked Jay Cutler away.

The Miami Dolphins wanted the Vanderbilt quarterback for another 45 minutes of interviews. The Tennessee Titans' coaching staff had scribbled out a final list of things for him to work on. Scouts, coaches and personnel men had spent days buzzing about his raw talents. Even his Senior Bowl teammates – many of whom had never heard of Cutler before practicing with him – clamored for the cell phone number of the week's most popular player.

When it was over, there was little doubt. Like Troy Williamson, Philip Rivers and Dewayne Robertson the last three years, Cutler had taken the crown as the draft's fastest rising commodity.

"What happens with a guy like Jay, he's at Vanderbilt, so all the scouts went there and they know who he is," Cleveland Browns general manager Phil Savage said. "Then he (goes to the Senior Bowl) and more people from the league see him. All of a sudden, other coaches are there and they see him. And they say, 'OK, this guy from Vanderbilt is pretty good.'

"He certainly has the size. He's got the arm strength. He's got the mobility."

And now Cutler has the buzz to rival Matt Leinart and Vince Young, giving the 2006 quarterback class the top-heavy hype of 2004 (Eli Manning, Rivers and Ben Roethlisberger) or even 1999 (Tim Couch, Donovan McNabb and Akili Smith). But while Leinart and Young have spent the last two years cementing themselves as the top two quarterbacks in this draft, Cutler's coming-out party has just started.

Despite having the respect of coaches in the Southeastern Conference for years, Cutler is just getting acquainted with the upper layers of NFL management.

"I'll be quite honest with you – not every team in the league has studied him yet," said Titans coach Jeff Fisher, who coached Cutler at the Senior Bowl. "They're going to look and see that he's got a lot of the intangibles that you need to play in this league."

Scouts have raved about Cutler's arm strength, his mental toughness and the fact that he stuck with playing quarterback at Vanderbilt despite having many schools recruit him as a safety (Purdue and Indiana backed off at the last minute).

While his size (6-foot-3, 223 pounds) suggests a pure pocket passer, Cutler has deceiving mobility. He played some option as a freshman and sophomore and faced nearly constant pressure as a junior and senior, so he knows how to move and throw under pressure.

Pick a flattering quarterback label and Cutler has it – smart, tough, durable, cocky, etc. Those qualities have lent to generous comparisons to names like John Elway and Brett Favre – both in a positive and negative manner.

Like Elway, Cutler was never able to lead his team to a bowl game and, because of a lack of surrounding talent, he has developed the habit of relying on a strong arm to squeeze balls into tight spots. Like Favre, Cutler has the reputation of being a bit of a gambler, but in the same vein, he has shown plenty of courage for being mentally tough.

"One of the things that's overlooked when you're evaluating quarterbacks (is that) Jay Cutler playing at Vanderbilt is a lot different than Matt Leinart playing at USC," Savage said. "If (Cutler) goes to a team that's struggling, it's not going to be a new thing for him, whereas it could be for a Matt Leinart or a Vince Young. They won virtually every game during their careers. I think (struggling with Vanderbilt) is a positive for Jay."

It helps that Cutler showed improvement every year and was an accurate passer his last two seasons, completing 61 and 59 percent of his throws – the former being a Vanderbilt record. Cutler finished his senior year with 3,073 passing yards, 21 touchdowns and nine interceptions for the Commodores, who started 4-0 but stumbled to a 5-6 record largely due to a defense that squandered close games down the stretch against South Carolina (35-28), Florida (49-42) and Kentucky (48-43).

In fact, those three losses – and a season-ending 28-24 win at Tennessee – were an astounding testament to Cutler's ability. In that four-game span, Cutler went 121-for-196 (61.7 percent) for 1,410 yards, 13 touchdowns and only three interceptions. And in all four instances, he mounted some kind of late comeback to keep Vanderbilt alive.

That might explain why you can spend a day sampling league opinions and have stories abound about Cutler's competitive nature. Like the time the Commodores were having issues converting extra points, and a frustrated Cutler pulled aside head coach Bobby Johnson and asked if he could attempt the kicks (Johnson said no). Or the time in 2004, when University of Tennessee linebacker Omar Gaither absolutely flattened Cutler in the pocket, then stood above him jawing and taunting. An irate Cutler – still lying on the ground – responded by trying to kick Gaither.

"You won't see him play scared," an AFC scout said of Cutler. "He's got (guts). That's going to get him into some trouble (in the NFL) when those windows he's throwing (into) close a lot faster. He'll learn it the hard way, but that's a better problem to have than with a guy who is afraid to let it rip."

That certainly wasn't a problem at the Senior Bowl. Most who watched Cutler remarked how he was throwing the football at 100 miles per hour in every situation.

Said Savage: "It's obvious someone said to him, 'Hey, throw every ball as hard as you can to impress the NFL people.' "

But that strength is something coaches are trying to refine. Cutler is not as polished or NFL-ready as Leinart, and he doesn't have the bundle of raw potential and athleticism of Young. In a way, Cutler is a balance of the two – with better arm strength than Leinart and the tools to run a more conventional offense than Young. Still, the average pass protection he experienced in college has translated into some issues with his mechanics and footwork.

The problems manifested themselves when Cutler topped off a strong practice week with a subpar outing at the Senior Bowl. In the game, he ended a strong opening drive with an end-zone interception and finished 6-of-19 for 69 yards with a touchdown and a pick. The performance revealed what scouts already knew: Cutler still needs coaching to work out the kinks in his pocket posture, and he still needs to take fewer risks.

"Who doesn't have those kinds of issues?" Fisher asked. "That's what (the Senior Bowl and workouts) are for. We've got to be careful about changing techniques and over-coaching. You want to let him play. The good part with what we've seen from Jay (is that) he's been able to change. From one day to the next, you worked on some things and you (saw) the difference.

"And he sees the difference – the difference in keeping his shoulders level and making a comeback throw. When his shoulders are up, the ball sails, but when his shoulders are down, the ball is on target. He understands. That's what we've been impressed with."

Now it's up to Cutler to keep those impressive reviews piling up at next week's scouting combine in Indianapolis. While there's no clear indication whether Leinart and Young will be throwing for scouts, Cutler is expected to go through all of the drills. For now, he appears to be solidly within the draft's top 10 picks, and he could move higher with good workouts.

The Dolphins have been eyeballing him, and there could be as many as six teams among the top-10 picks looking for another young quarterback – the New Orleans Saints (No. 2), Titans (No. 3), New York Jets (No. 4), Oakland Raiders (No. 6 or No. 7), Detroit Lions (No. 9) and Arizona Cardinals (No. 10). Many insiders think the key will be the San Francisco 49ers, who will land either the No. 6 or No. 7 pick via a coin flip at the combine. If the 49ers get the No. 6 spot, the feeling in league circles is that they will be looking to trade down with a team that covets Cutler.

But for now, he has clearly established himself as the draft's hot property and the best quarterback option beyond Leinart and Young. Where Jay Cutler goes from here, nobody knows.

"I think I can offer as much as either of those guys," Cutler said of his more esteemed draft rivals. "Hopefully, I can show that to everyone before the draft."

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=cr-c...=yhoo&type=lgns

 

[cstu]

He did 23 reps of 225.

 

[diesel7982]

Cutler = top 4 pick

 

[brednbuddah]

Cutler = top 4 pick

 

[cstu]

Cutler = top 4 pick

If Young really got a 6 on the Wonderlic, then yes.

 

[brednbuddah]

Cutler = top 4 pick

If Young really got a 6 on the Wonderlic, then yes.

help me understand the logic here.

 

[CA_7]

Take Cutler. Watching him put on a show in his press conference, I could see what everyone sees, and why some scouts view him as the best of the three top prospects. He doesn't give a you-know-what. In contrast to Leinart and Young, who chose to bypass the combine workouts and instead show their stuff at their Pro Days and individual workouts, Cutler came here to compete. He brought that nothing-to-lose, gunslinger mentality that allowed him to shine at lowly Vanderbilt with him to Indy. Prime example: The guy has no reason whatsoever to do the bench press, yet he puts up 225 pounds 23 times, better than any running back except Utah's Quinton Ganther (29). You gotta love that.

It's easy to see why he was a three-time team captain at Vandy. When asked if he was worried that throwing here Sunday might hurt his soaring stock, Cutler answered, "It's just throwing. I've been doing that a long time."

"I wish everyone was competing with me, but that's how it goes," Cutler said, referring to his primary competition.

Cutler thrived in arguably the most competitive conference in America, the SEC. His style has been compared to that of Brett Favre, whom, along with John Elway, Cutler loved as a kid. He's got a powerful arm and a quick release reminiscent of Jeff George. His footwork could be better, but he made the best out of a tough situation, which actually sets him apart from Leinart and Young, who had lots of talent around them. We already know Cutler can cut it regardless.

"I got it done without a lot of guys around me," Cutler said. "Nothing against those guys [his teammates], I love them to death, but I didn't have All-Americans scattered across the field and I had to adjust, I had to deal with pressure. I had to deal with getting the ball into tight places, so I think it is going to help me going to the next level, dealing with adversity and being able to succeed through it."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/colu...hael&id=2344648

 

[-OZ-]

Cutler = top 4 pick

If Young really got a 6 on the Wonderlic, then yes.

help me understand the logic here.

The logic, which I disagree with, is the 6 drops Young, perhaps out of the top 10.2 teams in the top 4 need QBs, and the Titans make sense for Cutler.

So instead of VY, they take Cutler.

IMO if (emphasis) Young drops out of the top 3, Tennessee should take the Brick, while the Jets may go for Cutler, I can see them taking Mario instead.

But, honestly, I doubt Young drops past 4 anyway.