Dallas Clark vs. Tony Gonzalez (1 Viewer)

[gianmarco]

Had a discussion with a friend about these 2 guys. Both had excellent 2008 seasons. Both are on the older side. Both have reasons to be optimistic.

Gonzo (2/27/1976 -- Age 33)

--HOF TE whose game hasn't slowed down at all to this point

--Now has Cassel to throw to him

--Has Bowe to take some pressure off of him

--3 years older than Clark

--Could retire at any moment

D. Clark (6/12/1979 -- almost age 30)

--TE on an elite passing team

--3 yrs younger than Gonzo

--Loss of Harrison = potentially more targets for Clark

--Only has about 2 yrs track record of top finishes

--Injury history and over the age of 30 (not good for TEs)

So which guy do you prefer for both above scenarios? One scenario is you have a younger prospect as a backup (Keller, Miller, Olsen). The other, you don't have a true backup. Who is going to have the better 2009? 2010?

Not listed above in the polls is when you think each of those guys loses fantasy relevance? In other words, how many more years until both guys aren't startable on a weekly basis (<top 12 TE)?

Curious what most people's thoughts are and how these will reflect in general rankings of these 2 in a dynasty format.

 

[awesomeness]

i'll take Tony G for all of the above.

 

[cstu]

Gonzo had the best all-time fantasy season by a 32+ year old TE. Only three times has a 33+ TE scored over 100 fantasy points. I think this is Gonzo's last year as a top TE.

Here are the top 20 seasons by TE's 32 and over:

NAME 	POS 	YR 	AGE 	EXP 	G 	REC 	RECYD 	YD/REC 	RECTD 	FANT PT
1	Tony Gonzalez	te	2008	32	12	16	96	1058	11.02	10	165.80
2	Wesley Walls	te	1999	33	11	16	63	822	13.05	12	154.20
3	Shannon Sharpe	te	2003	35	14	15	62	770	12.42	8	125.00
4	Shannon Sharpe	te	2000	32	11	16	67	810	12.09	5	111.00
5	Mickey Shuler	te	1988	32	11	15	70	805	11.50	5	110.50
6	Jay Novacek	te	1995	33	11	15	62	705	11.37	5	100.50
7	Shannon Sharpe	te	2001	33	12	16	73	811	11.11	2	93.10
8	Shannon Sharpe	te	2002	34	13	12	61	686	11.25	3	86.60
9	Pete Metzelaars	te	1993	33	12	16	68	609	8.96	4	84.90
10	Wesley Walls	te	1998	32	10	14	49	506	10.33	5	80.60
11	Brent Jones	te	1995	32	9	16	60	595	9.92	3	77.50
12	Wesley Walls	te	2001	35	13	14	43	452	10.51	5	75.20
13	Pete Metzelaars	te	1994	34	13	16	49	428	8.73	5	72.80
14	Bob Klein	te	1979	32	11	15	37	424	11.46	5	72.40
15	Marcus Pollard	te	2005	33	11	16	46	516	11.22	3	69.60
16	Marcus Pollard	te	2004	32	10	13	29	309	10.66	6	66.90
17	Jackie Smith	te	1973	33	11	14	41	600	14.63	1	66.00
18	Russ Francis	te	1985	32	11	16	44	478	10.86	3	65.80
19	Pete Metzelaars	te	1992	32	11	16	30	298	9.93	6	65.80
20	Charle Young	te	1983	32	11	16	36	529	14.69	2	64.90

 

[The Man with the Plan]

Dallas Clark is a good player and all but seriously he's not even on Gonzo's level.

 

[gianmarco]

Gonzo had the best all-time fantasy season by a 32+ year old TE. Only three times has a 33+ TE scored over 100 fantasy points. I think this is Gonzo's last year as a top TE.Here are the top 20 seasons by TE's 32 and over:

NAME 	POS 	YR 	AGE 	EXP 	G 	REC 	RECYD 	YD/REC 	RECTD 	FANT PT1	Tony Gonzalez	te	2008	32	12	16	96	1058	11.02	10	165.802	Wesley Walls	te	1999	33	11	16	63	822	13.05	12	154.203	Shannon Sharpe	te	2003	35	14	15	62	770	12.42	8	125.004	Shannon Sharpe	te	2000	32	11	16	67	810	12.09	5	111.005	Mickey Shuler	te	1988	32	11	15	70	805	11.50	5	110.506	Jay Novacek	te	1995	33	11	15	62	705	11.37	5	100.507	Shannon Sharpe	te	2001	33	12	16	73	811	11.11	2	93.108	Shannon Sharpe	te	2002	34	13	12	61	686	11.25	3	86.609	Pete Metzelaars	te	1993	33	12	16	68	609	8.96	4	84.9010	Wesley Walls	te	1998	32	10	14	49	506	10.33	5	80.6011	Brent Jones	te	1995	32	9	16	60	595	9.92	3	77.5012	Wesley Walls	te	2001	35	13	14	43	452	10.51	5	75.2013	Pete Metzelaars	te	1994	34	13	16	49	428	8.73	5	72.8014	Bob Klein	te	1979	32	11	15	37	424	11.46	5	72.4015	Marcus Pollard	te	2005	33	11	16	46	516	11.22	3	69.6016	Marcus Pollard	te	2004	32	10	13	29	309	10.66	6	66.9017	Jackie Smith	te	1973	33	11	14	41	600	14.63	1	66.0018	Russ Francis	te	1985	32	11	16	44	478	10.86	3	65.8019	Pete Metzelaars	te	1992	32	11	16	30	298	9.93	6	65.8020	Charle Young	te	1983	32	11	16	36	529	14.69	2	64.90

You RUINED IT!!!! I was going to post the same thing. You should pull up the #'s for 31 yo TE's. That is what D. Clark is going to be next year when, I'm assuming, most people are going to vote he will outdo Gonzo. --Looking over the last few years, the #12 TE has scored roughly 80 pts/year. --There have been 398 TE seasons played by a TE age 31 or older--Of those 398 TE seasons, only 20 of them scored 80 pts or more (essentially enough to be roughly startable in a 12 team league)--About half of those 20 seasons were by guys named Shannon Sharpe (4 of them), Wesley Walls (3 of them), and Tony Gonzalez (2 of them). --Of note, Tony Gonzalez has the highest score of any TE age 31 or older in a season.When you look at it for 32 yo TEs (2011 for Clark), it gets even bleaker--There have been 247 TE seasons played by a TE age 32 or older--Only 10 of those 247 TE seasons scored 80 pts or more--4 of those 10 belong to S. Sharpe. The rest include Walls, Novacek, Metzelaars, Shuler, and Gonzo--Half of those 10 seasons were < 100 pts (still not very fantasy relevant)Point being is that, at least I'm going to assume for this year, that most predict Tony G to outscore Dallas Clark. We'll see how the polls works out. But, here's the kicker. Even if Gonzo were one and done and either crapped out the rest of his career or just flat out retired, D. Clark has the odds stacked against him to be fantasy relevant (top 12 TE) the following year in 2010 at age 31. It gets even worse at age 32.I think most don't realize the age wall for TE's is closer to that of a RB than it is to a WR. I also think most people don't realize how old D. Clark is. Yet, I can almost guarantee that Clark is going to be more highly coveted in dynasty leagues than Gonzo and will probably appear higher in rankings. My prediction, going along with these #'s, is that Gonzo outdoes Clark in 2009 and that Clark doesn't even crack the top 10-12 for 2010 and beyond. What Gonzo does after this year is irrelevant at that point because both of these guys are short-term options. Give me the guy who will produce more.

 

[Buckeyedawgs]

A good poll! Made me have to think but the fact Gonzo only has a year or two left and Dallas is in a much favorable situation at this time I'd have to go with Dallas any Dynasty formatt. Now redraft Gonzo would win easily.

 

[The Man with the Plan]

A good poll! Made me have to think but the fact Gonzo only has a year or two left and Dallas is in a much favorable situation at this time I'd have to go with Dallas any Dynasty formatt. Now redraft Gonzo would win easily.

 

[gianmarco]

A good poll! Made me have to think but the fact Gonzo only has a year or two left and Dallas is in a much favorable situation at this time I'd have to go with Dallas any Dynasty formatt. Now redraft Gonzo would win easily.

So, you think Dallas will have a top 10-12 TE finish in 2010 at age 31?

 

[Hoss_Cartwright]

A good poll! Made me have to think but the fact Gonzo only has a year or two left and Dallas is in a much favorable situation at this time I'd have to go with Dallas any Dynasty formatt. Now redraft Gonzo would win easily.

So, you think Dallas will have a top 10-12 TE finish in 2010 at age 31?

31 isn't old for a TE or WR. Hell, 32 isn't old for a WR or TE.

 

[gianmarco]

A good poll! Made me have to think but the fact Gonzo only has a year or two left and Dallas is in a much favorable situation at this time I'd have to go with Dallas any Dynasty formatt. Now redraft Gonzo would win easily.

So, you think Dallas will have a top 10-12 TE finish in 2010 at age 31?

31 isn't old for a TE or WR. Hell, 33 isn't old for a WR or TE.

Ahh, that's the misconception. It isn't for WR's, but it seemingly IS for TE's. That was the intended point of this thread and it seems you glossed over the post I provided a little bit above. The age wall for TEs seems to be much closer to that of a RB than it is to that of a WR. Granted, the way that TE's have been used historically has not been in a pass-catching role compared to today. Still, it's tough to ignore that have only been 10 TE seasons worthy of a top 12 finish since 1960 by all TE's not named Sharpe, Walls, and Gonzo. And there hasn't been a lack of 31 yo TEs that have tried. If 31 isn't old for TE, why haven't more 31 year old TE's put up a measly 80 pts/year?

 

[JPeso]

I will take 2-3 more 250 point PPR years from Gonzo, a "lock" starter at your TE slot, instead of zero for Dallas Clark. Sure, Clark's total may be decent, but he is feast or famine on TDs.

As for the age argument against T. Gonzalez, this guy is really a rare beast. He takes care of his body like none other (Owens is the only player who rivals him here), and does all the right things related to personal training and health. Comparing Tony to 30 year-olds who have fallen off like Crumpler makes no sense to me.

 

[Team Legacy]

Good post here.

I take Dallas in Dynasty with little hesitation and looking at startup dynasty drafts going on right now, I think most agree with me. I consider Dallas for re-draft. Marvin had 100+ targets last year that will be spread around to Wayne, Dallas, Gonzo and somebody, so roughly 20+ targets more than last sounds reasonable, putting Dallas around the 130 mark if I had to guess.

Looking at the second half, weeks 8-16 from last season (not counting week 17), 1PPR

Tony Scored 177

Dallas scored 142

Who's next? Carlson at 93, Gates 91, Keller 87. That's a pretty significant drop IMO. While Tony had a second half for the ages, Dallas does it as a result of Peyton and the offense, and it's likely going to continue on that way until the body can't hold up, so the question is, how long will Dallas hold up?

Is it relevant to discuss that while Dallas is over 30, he's only played 6 years of NFL football at age 30? Wonder how the body holds up for Dallas? He also isn't your conventional Tight End on the line, he lines up at WR plenty thus limiting the physicality involved, possibly prolonging his career.

 

[gianmarco]

Seems a lot of people banking on D. Clark in 2010. Should be interesting. I'm not surprised.

 

[Team Legacy]

What's even more interesting is the result of your FIRST poll. Had I voted in favor of Dallas Clark, and removed your vote, this would be a 1 vote race.

 

[gianmarco]

What's even more interesting is the result of your FIRST poll. Had I voted in favor of Dallas Clark, and removed your vote, this would be a 1 vote race.

What's interesting is that the largest % thinks Gonzo will be better in 2009. Thus, the voting in the first 2 polls is based on the belief that Dallas Clark will do well in 2010 and beyond. I guess it comes down to most people thinking D. Clark is good enough and/or in a good enough situation to go against an overwhelming trend of 31 yo TEs not doing well. That, or just ignoring that strong possibility. Time will tell.

 

[cstu]

A good poll! Made me have to think but the fact Gonzo only has a year or two left and Dallas is in a much favorable situation at this time I'd have to go with Dallas any Dynasty formatt. Now redraft Gonzo would win easily.

So, you think Dallas will have a top 10-12 TE finish in 2010 at age 31?

31 isn't old for a TE or WR. Hell, 32 isn't old for a WR or TE.

Check the history, Hoss.

 

[CalBear]

Ahh, that's the misconception. It isn't for WR's, but it seemingly IS for TE's. That was the intended point of this thread and it seems you glossed over the post I provided a little bit above. The age wall for TEs seems to be much closer to that of a RB than it is to that of a WR.

Granted, the way that TE's have been used historically has not been in a pass-catching role compared to today. Still, it's tough to ignore that have only been 10 TE seasons worthy of a top 12 finish since 1960 by all TE's not named Sharpe, Walls, and Gonzo. And there hasn't been a lack of 31 yo TEs that have tried.

It's hard to enumerate all of the fallacies you're bringing to this argument, but here are three big ones:1) Populational studies are not predictive for individuals. Curtis Martin's 2004 season wasn't prevented by him being over 31, nor was Payton's 1985 and 1986, Riggins' 1984 and 1985, etc. If you take the entire population of current NFL RBs, it is safe to say that 80% of them will not be producing at age 32, but it's fallacious to say that (for example) Tomlinson will not produce at age 32 because most other RBs haven't produced at age 32.

2) Tony Gonzalez is in your population. He has already proven that he is a rule-breaker, just like Sharpe did in 2000 before going on to have several more good seasons. Do you really think that Sharpe at 35 is better than Gonzo at 33? Sharpe put up 770/8 at 35. Gonzo put up 1058/10 at 32.

3) The sample size of comparable players is nearly zero. The fact that Emery Moorehead didn't put up great stats at age 32 has no relevance to Gonzo, because Gonzo is the best pass-catching TE ever to play the game. The closest comparable player is Sharpe, who had a great season (#2 TE) at age 35. The number of players who you can reasonably compare to Gonzo is less than 10, probably less than 5, so the population is simply too small to study in any meaningful way.

 

[Team Legacy]

To ADD to this topic...

We're going to have a GREAT show tonight, hope to see you guys in the chat room.

We're talking the IMPACT of FREE AGENT signings and for you Dynasty freaks that just can't get enough.. we're unveiling our Red vs Blue Dynasty Tight Ends - Top 10

#1 - Witten.. Duh..

#2 - ?

#3 - ?

#4 - ?

#5 - ?

#6 - ?

#7 - Tony Gonzalez

#8 - ?

#9 - ?

#10 - ?

11pm EST , TONIGHT - go here and join the live chat room.

SHOW # 21 - GET IN THE GAME!

 

[gianmarco]

Ahh, that's the misconception. It isn't for WR's, but it seemingly IS for TE's. That was the intended point of this thread and it seems you glossed over the post I provided a little bit above. The age wall for TEs seems to be much closer to that of a RB than it is to that of a WR.

Granted, the way that TE's have been used historically has not been in a pass-catching role compared to today. Still, it's tough to ignore that have only been 10 TE seasons worthy of a top 12 finish since 1960 by all TE's not named Sharpe, Walls, and Gonzo. And there hasn't been a lack of 31 yo TEs that have tried.

It's hard to enumerate all of the fallacies you're bringing to this argument, but here are three big ones:1) Populational studies are not predictive for individuals. Curtis Martin's 2004 season wasn't prevented by him being over 31, nor was Payton's 1985 and 1986, Riggins' 1984 and 1985, etc. If you take the entire population of current NFL RBs, it is safe to say that 80% of them will not be producing at age 32, but it's fallacious to say that (for example) Tomlinson will not produce at age 32 because most other RBs haven't produced at age 32.

2) Tony Gonzalez is in your population. He has already proven that he is a rule-breaker, just like Sharpe did in 2000 before going on to have several more good seasons. Do you really think that Sharpe at 35 is better than Gonzo at 33? Sharpe put up 770/8 at 35. Gonzo put up 1058/10 at 32.

3) The sample size of comparable players is nearly zero. The fact that Emery Moorehead didn't put up great stats at age 32 has no relevance to Gonzo, because Gonzo is the best pass-catching TE ever to play the game. The closest comparable player is Sharpe, who had a great season (#2 TE) at age 35. The number of players who you can reasonably compare to Gonzo is less than 10, probably less than 5, so the population is simply too small to study in any meaningful way.

1) They may not be predictive, but they are certainly helpful. It doesn't mean Dallas Clark CANNOT do it. It simply means the odds are against him. You use that information combined with the information about the player to make a reasonable assumption. Predicting that Dallas Clark WILL do it (like many here are doing) is just as incorrect given the available information. If D. Clark had had a career like Gates or Gonzo, he'd be given much more leeway and I'd change my opinion of him compared to other 30 yo TEs. The fact that his career has been relatively unremarkable makes me think he is much more likely to be like most other 30 yo TEs than the exceptions.2) See above. The reason Gonzo broke the rules is because he IS an exception due to his ability. He's the best TE to ever play the game. It's no surprise that Sharpe did it as well. These guys aren't in the HOF (or will be for Gonzo) because of what they did at age 31+. They are because of what they did their entire career. If Clark had a HOF-worthy career, I wouldn't be writing him off. Gonzo has had a HOF career so he is and will continue to be an exception to the rule. See Curtis Martin, see S. Sharpe, see TO, see Jerry Rice, etc. Dallas Clark does not belong in that discussion. It would be akin to me predicting Willie Parker to do well beyond age 30. He hasn't had the career like the others who are more likely to be an exception.

3. The sample size is small, yes. That is partly why it will be interesting to see if Clark can indeed be an exception and whether or not we're heading into a different era where the age of a TE is not as relevant. Again, it's ok to know it's a small sample size and take the information with a grain of salt. It's another thing to completely toss it out the window and ignore it simply because it's a small sample size (for now).

 

[cstu]

Ahh, that's the misconception. It isn't for WR's, but it seemingly IS for TE's. That was the intended point of this thread and it seems you glossed over the post I provided a little bit above. The age wall for TEs seems to be much closer to that of a RB than it is to that of a WR.

Granted, the way that TE's have been used historically has not been in a pass-catching role compared to today. Still, it's tough to ignore that have only been 10 TE seasons worthy of a top 12 finish since 1960 by all TE's not named Sharpe, Walls, and Gonzo. And there hasn't been a lack of 31 yo TEs that have tried.

It's hard to enumerate all of the fallacies you're bringing to this argument, but here are three big ones:1) Populational studies are not predictive for individuals. Curtis Martin's 2004 season wasn't prevented by him being over 31, nor was Payton's 1985 and 1986, Riggins' 1984 and 1985, etc. If you take the entire population of current NFL RBs, it is safe to say that 80% of them will not be producing at age 32, but it's fallacious to say that (for example) Tomlinson will not produce at age 32 because most other RBs haven't produced at age 32.

2) Tony Gonzalez is in your population. He has already proven that he is a rule-breaker, just like Sharpe did in 2000 before going on to have several more good seasons. Do you really think that Sharpe at 35 is better than Gonzo at 33? Sharpe put up 770/8 at 35. Gonzo put up 1058/10 at 32.

3) The sample size of comparable players is nearly zero. The fact that Emery Moorehead didn't put up great stats at age 32 has no relevance to Gonzo, because Gonzo is the best pass-catching TE ever to play the game. The closest comparable player is Sharpe, who had a great season (#2 TE) at age 35. The number of players who you can reasonably compare to Gonzo is less than 10, probably less than 5, so the population is simply too small to study in any meaningful way.

Ok, fair argument. Let's say Gonzo is comparable to Sharpe because of his unique skills. Sharpe still only had 93 points at 33 and 96 points at 34. Yes, he had an amazing resurgence at 35 in his last year, but that's a lot to expect for Gonzo.

 

[CalBear]

Ok, fair argument. Let's say Gonzo is comparable to Sharpe because of his unique skills. Sharpe still only had 93 points at 33 and 96 points at 34. Yes, he had an amazing resurgence at 35 in his last year, but that's a lot to expect for Gonzo.

Well, Gonzo is better than Sharpe. But OK, let's call them comparable.Sharpe was the #3 TE in at 33, #5 at 34, and #2 at 35. At 34, he missed three games and would certainly have been in the top 3 again if he'd played 16. (He was top-3 in PPG). So leaving Gonzo as comparable to Sharpe, it seems realistic to suggest that Gonzo can play at a top-3 level through age 35, barring injury. He's coming off three years where he finished as #3, #3, and #1.

Dallas Clarke has finished in the top 3 once in his career; in the top 10 twice. He has also missed at least one game every year of his career; Gonzo has missed 2 games in his entire career.

You're comparing one of the greats of all time, to a decent pass-catching TE in a good situation. In 1995 would you have taken Terance Mathis over Jerry Rice?

 

[bjabrad]

I found this to be an interesting thread but had a hard time finding a point. IF you're trying to say that Dallas Clark can be as good as Gonzo this year or in any year then I would bet against it and I'd bet that for as long as Gonzo decides he wants to play that he will be in the top 5 of TE's,,,every year.

Perhaps you have brought statistical significance to the argument that TE's have careers that life ranges closer to that of a RB than a WR but it doesn't make a lot of sense to me when I think about what a TE does (blocking, slow route running, catching) and what a RB does (hit the hole or run around it until their quickness doesn't let them get there soon enough). Exactly what skill do you think will diminish enough for Tony Gonzalez to fail to do what he does now? IMO, if Gonzo wants to, he can rewrite the record books for HOF TE longevity by a wide margin. I think the chances are better that he gets tired of playing football before his skills diminish.

 

[gianmarco]

I found this to be an interesting thread but had a hard time finding a point. IF you're trying to say that Dallas Clark can be as good as Gonzo this year or in any year then I would bet against it and I'd bet that for as long as Gonzo decides he wants to play that he will be in the top 5 of TE's,,,every year.Perhaps you have brought statistical significance to the argument that TE's have careers that life ranges closer to that of a RB than a WR but it doesn't make a lot of sense to me when I think about what a TE does (blocking, slow route running, catching) and what a RB does (hit the hole or run around it until their quickness doesn't let them get there soon enough). Exactly what skill do you think will diminish enough for Tony Gonzalez to fail to do what he does now? IMO, if Gonzo wants to, he can rewrite the record books for HOF TE longevity by a wide margin. I think the chances are better that he gets tired of playing football before his skills diminish.

Keep in mind I'm in the Gonzo camp. I do believe he is an exception.The point I was trying to get across was that I think Dallas Clark is going to end up being valued to high. I can almost guarantee he will be ranked higher than Gonzo on most dynasty lists. And I think people don't realize 1) How old he is, and 2) That TEs, for whatever reason, have historically not done well after age 30. I am NOT saying Gonzo is the #1 fantasy TE. I would take most of the younger guys ahead of him including Witten, Cooley, Winslow, and even consider Carlson/Keller/Olsen/Miller depending on team makeup. Who I would NOT take ahead of him is D. Clark because he doesn't fit in the same category as those guys due to his age and the fact he could be falling off very soon.

 

[Team Legacy]

Would love to get some of you guys to carry over this analysis to my show tonight, which airs at 11pm EST.

Call the show and give us a take. I'm taking a TON of heat for ranking Gonzo #7 in my Dynasty rankings. Let me know why I'm wrong or right. I appreciate all FBG coming by the show.

Call me at 347-324-5404 and visit the LIVE show page with chatroom. Announce that you're a FBG when you get on!

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/stations/fant...ball-Episode-21

 

[Team Legacy]

They're experiencing a system wide outage.. Please be patient. Keep trying.

 

[stevegamer]

Nice - Gonzo undervalued again.

While you are giving Clark a bump for no Harrison, you need to give Gonzalez a bump for improved QB play. Thigpen was decent at the end of they year, but Cassell is an upgrade over the QB's they had at the start of the year, at worst.

For the only TE vote, selcting Clark is interesting - he misses games in 100% of the years he's played. Gonzo has played almost 100% olf the games. Since you don't get to have anothter TE, I'd think you want the guy who is more likely to play every week.

 

[Team Legacy]

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/stations/fant...-take-3-show-21

new link , show starts at MIDNIGHT. techs assure us it won't happen again.. LET'S GO!

 

[winwithike]

Nice - Gonzo undervalued again.

While you are giving Clark a bump for no Harrison, you need to give Gonzalez a bump for improved QB play. Thigpen was decent at the end of they year, but Cassell is an upgrade over the QB's they had at the start of the year, at worst.

For the only TE vote, selcting Clark is interesting - he misses games in 100% of the years he's played. Gonzo has played almost 100% olf the games. Since you don't get to have anothter TE, I'd think you want the guy who is more likely to play every week.

As a chiefs fan who watched every game last year, I'd say bump Gonzales down due to the QB change. Cassell is an upgrade for sure, but not for Gonzo. Gonzo was Thigpens 1st 2nd and 3rd look on every pass play. Thiggy would force balls into Tony in double and sometimes triple coverage and Gonzo being the beast he is would still come up with the catch. Those are catches and plays that he shouldnt have had to make and shouldnt be asked to make in the future. Cassell should force fewer throws which will in turn mean fewer catches for Tony which will lead to fewer yards and TDs naturally.

 

[Team Legacy]

Wow, these Dynasty rankings really have been spurring up good conversation...

Red vs Blue Dynasty TE Rankings revealed -

#1 Witten

#2 Gates

#3 Dallas Clark !!

#4 Owen Daniels

#5 Kellen Winslow

#6 Chris Cooley

#7 Tony Gonzalez

#8 Dustin Keller --- I'd be hard pressed to pull the trigger straight up for Gonzo. I love this kid.

#9 Greg Olsen

#10 John Carlson

Here's a link to the podcast. http://www.blogtalkradio.com/stations/fant...-take-3-show-21

The Dynasty rankings are revealed at the 29 minute mark of the show.

 

[stevegamer]

Nice - Gonzo undervalued again.

While you are giving Clark a bump for no Harrison, you need to give Gonzalez a bump for improved QB play. Thigpen was decent at the end of they year, but Cassell is an upgrade over the QB's they had at the start of the year, at worst.

For the only TE vote, selcting Clark is interesting - he misses games in 100% of the years he's played. Gonzo has played almost 100% olf the games. Since you don't get to have anothter TE, I'd think you want the guy who is more likely to play every week.

As a chiefs fan who watched every game last year, I'd say bump Gonzales down due to the QB change. Cassell is an upgrade for sure, but not for Gonzo. Gonzo was Thigpens 1st 2nd and 3rd look on every pass play. Thiggy would force balls into Tony in double and sometimes triple coverage and Gonzo being the beast he is would still come up with the catch. Those are catches and plays that he shouldnt have had to make and shouldnt be asked to make in the future. Cassell should force fewer throws which will in turn mean fewer catches for Tony which will lead to fewer yards and TDs naturally.

I was thinking cassell would be an upgrade over fiorst half QB, but a downgrade over 2nd half QB - Thigpen, who forced the ball to Gonzo. Of course, you tend to force the ball to your best receiver.

 

[stevegamer]

Wow, these Dynasty rankings really have been spurring up good conversation...

Red vs Blue Dynasty TE Rankings revealed -

#1 Witten

#2 Gates

#3 Dallas Clark !!

#4 Owen Daniels

#5 Kellen Winslow

#6 Chris Cooley

#7 Tony Gonzalez

#8 Dustin Keller --- I'd be hard pressed to pull the trigger straight up for Gonzo. I love this kid.

#9 Greg Olsen

#10 John Carlson

Here's a link to the podcast. http://www.blogtalkradio.com/stations/fant...-take-3-show-21

The Dynasty rankings are revealed at the 29 minute mark of the show.

You clearly LOVE Clark for this year. Do you think he's the #1 TE this year? It's out there, but I;'m sure you have your reasons.Here's how I see it:

1. The 2 playes are only a couple years apart in age, and, as you show, non-elite TE's drop off past 30.

2. Clark has had his two best years the last two years, so he is theoretically trending upward. I could believe this would be his career year coming up.

3. Unfortuantely, Clark has only shown hiself to be a truly elite TE this past year, and has ben a sub-par starter at TE prior to that - no top 10 finishes.

4. Clark seems to have a number of comparable players in your list, and they don't seem to work out.

5. Clark has had a ocuple years where he's missed significant time.

5. Gonzalez is the definition of an elite TE. He's been outside the top 3 thrice, his first two years at #17 & #10, and #7 one year in the middle.

6. Gonzalez's only remotely close comp in the study is actually worse than him - Sharpe. And Sharpe is the best guy in the study.

Therefore, I conclude:

A. Gonzalez is unique, or at worst extremely rare. We have really no idea how long his stretch of dominance will last. But the sign (Sharpe's numbers) point to it continuing, as does his prouction.

B. Clark has to show it again this year to get into the discussion of being an elite TE whose numbers will hold up. While that offense is awesome, a change in situation could be quite damaging -goign elsewhere in Free Agency kills his value, I think..

 

[Canadian Content]

Dallas Clark is hybrid TE. He spends nearly half of his time in the slot as a third wide. b/c of this I have no doubt that he will not be hit by this 31 yr old wall for TE. He hasn't taken the same punishment and won't for for the foreseeable future. With lose of Harrison I take Dallas for next year and beyond.

 

[gianmarco]

So far, Clark has looked fantastic. Not only may he outdo Gonzo beyond this year, he's looking to do it this year too.

Definitely one I wasn't expecting to happen. Clark providing great return on those who invested in him.