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Darren Sproles vs Leon Washington (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter TS Garp
- Start date
DenverBroncos
Footballguy
Sproles, as he has much higher upside.
coyote5
Footballguy
and you think his upside is much higher because...
My friend said essentially the same thing, and mentioned that no one else poses the problems and has the versatility that Sproles' does. As much as I love him (especially after tonight's game), I think people have this perception because of everything that Sproles is doing and the press that he's (deservedly) getting, but I'm not sure that I'm take him over Washington. Both guys are great talents, and Sproles is a year younger, but I actually think Washington might have the better chance to develop successfully into an every-down back if given the opportunity.
Sproles is fine. But I just think he is too small to be an everydown back. The pounding a starting RB takes can't be underestimated. Westbrook is bigger than Sproles but even he finds it hard to stay healthy.
Sproles is a tough guy but he took some huge hits tonight. If he took hits like that regularly all season then there is no way he'd last. The problem he has is when he does get caught he gets blown up with big hits. One of these times he is not going to get up from one those hits.
Sproles is a tough guy but he took some huge hits tonight. If he took hits like that regularly all season then there is no way he'd last. The problem he has is when he does get caught he gets blown up with big hits. One of these times he is not going to get up from one those hits.
A lot of people think Sproles isn't an every-down back because he's too small.
I disagree. I don't think there's any such thing as "too small." Either you can run or you can't, and Sproles can run.
If he leaves the Chargers next season, it will be Michael Turner Part II. (I.e., Sproles will be really good -- and far underrated by most people heading into the season.)
I disagree. I don't think there's any such thing as "too small." Either you can run or you can't, and Sproles can run.
If he leaves the Chargers next season, it will be Michael Turner Part II. (I.e., Sproles will be really good -- and far underrated by most people heading into the season.)
That's not true. Like I said earlier the wear and tear a starting running back takes is intense. If Sproles started week in and week out he'd take a lot of big hits and would eventually get dinged up which would slow him down. Sproles game is based entirely on speed and quickness. If he lost even a step his effectiveness as a running back would be severely hindered. He is best suited to a role like he has now.
I'd like to see Sproles as a starting RB vs Pittsburgh's D. Let's see how effective he'll be in that game.
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A
awesomeness
Guest
Sproles is good, but i'd take Leon Washington.
Unwrittenlaw
Footballguy
Sproles isn't an every down back and will be ineffective if ever given a chance. Sproles isn't a "Michael Turner". That's not to say it's a bad thing. They're just two different types of RB's. Norv gameplans Sproles and gives him screen routes. That's why Sproles is so effective. You can't expect him to get dump off passes/screens the entire game or the defense won't be left guessing. I wish I had detailed stats on Sproles for the YPC's on each type of run.Anyways, I think he stays in SD and gets a payraise.
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stevegamer
Footballguy
I think Sproles has the receiving skills to be incredible in a PPR. - and I'm holding him in dynasty for that reason.
Washington doesn't seem like quite as good a runner to me, and he's not a pending FA.
Both would be great on your NFL team, as it gives you a very solid returner, and guy who is at worst a nice #2 RB.
Washington doesn't seem like quite as good a runner to me, and he's not a pending FA.
Both would be great on your NFL team, as it gives you a very solid returner, and guy who is at worst a nice #2 RB.
puckalicious
Footballguy
Depends on how they're used. Sproles is better in open space, and Washington is better (but not excellent) as a traditional RB.
Fantasy wise I like Sproles better for next year, but TJ's age could catch up to him quicker than we think which would open the door for significant opportunity for Washington.
I don't think we can really assess this situation until we see what each team does in the draft.
Fantasy wise I like Sproles better for next year, but TJ's age could catch up to him quicker than we think which would open the door for significant opportunity for Washington.
I don't think we can really assess this situation until we see what each team does in the draft.
tribecalledjeff
Footballguy
1 - Height and size are 2 different things. Sproles carries enough weight on his body to be thick enough. For BMI lovers, he has the same BMI as Westbrook.
2 - Because of his size and quickness, he doesn't take a lot of big hits so I wouldn't have anymore worry regarding injury than I would with any other back.
3 - He doesn't have to be a 20 carry/game back to be effective - far from it. 15 carries and 3-4 catches a game is more than enough to be a productive fantasy player, especially in ppr.
2 - Because of his size and quickness, he doesn't take a lot of big hits so I wouldn't have anymore worry regarding injury than I would with any other back.
3 - He doesn't have to be a 20 carry/game back to be effective - far from it. 15 carries and 3-4 catches a game is more than enough to be a productive fantasy player, especially in ppr.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
Answering this question really depends on how things fall out over the next few months:
1) Will Sproles leave San Diego?
2) If so, where does he go and will he be guaranteed a major role?
3) Who will coach in New York next year?
4) Is Thomas Jones capable of another solid year, or will the new coaches transition Washington into a more consistent role?
1) Will Sproles leave San Diego?
2) If so, where does he go and will he be guaranteed a major role?
3) Who will coach in New York next year?
4) Is Thomas Jones capable of another solid year, or will the new coaches transition Washington into a more consistent role?
Between special teams and offense he got creamed about 3 times just in last nights game. To his credit he bounced up each time but I don't think he could make it through 16 games like last night.If he were a starting running back they would have to take him off returns in order to preserve him and returns is one of the things he does best.
This is a good question.
In KR leagues Leon has been the man. He was the number 1 RB this year.
Spoles was awesome this year and was number 4 best RB. (williams 2 and Turner 3).
I think i would go with Washington. His situation seems more stable.
Sproles going to some other team might take a hit to his fantasy value depending on how they use him. But i think he has a chance to be a top 5 again next year.
In KR leagues Leon has been the man. He was the number 1 RB this year.
Spoles was awesome this year and was number 4 best RB. (williams 2 and Turner 3).
I think i would go with Washington. His situation seems more stable.
Sproles going to some other team might take a hit to his fantasy value depending on how they use him. But i think he has a chance to be a top 5 again next year.
coyote5
Footballguy
That is the conundrum. Look at what happened when Chicago took Hester and made him a WR. His return production dropped significantly. You just can't ask him (sproles) to do it all for 16 games and expect good production, he'll breakdown. He had a fantastic playoff game, 340~ all purpose yards, but there's no way he could hold up for an entire season doing that.
Buffaloes
Footballguy
What about guys like Warrick Dunn, Barry Sanders (no I'm not saying Sproles has Sanders' talent), MJD, Westy and Chris Johnson? Each one of those guys is small in terms of NFL running backs but they have been able to withstand the rigors of an NFL workload (to varying degrees). What is to stop Sproles or Washington from excelling as a running back who carries most of the load for a team? Especially if there is a guy who can punch it in from the 1 or pick up the tough yards a la Jerome Bettis or Mike Alstott.
I suspect the idea that smaller RBs get injured more often than larger RBs (i.e., they "can't take the pounding") is completely unsupported by any kind of competent empirical analysis.Can anyone point me to a link of any study done on the subject?
If not, it might be a good offseason project for me.
But my initial impression is that size and durability are probably unrelated, but if there's a correlation at all it's probably a negative one. The bigger a running back is, the more forceful his collisions will be -- doing more damage to both the tackler and to the RB. (Tiki Barber was more durable than Brandon Jacobs, etc.)
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Buffaloes
Footballguy
I will add that smaller backs have a lower center of gravity and are more agile. I'm thinking they can avoid the big hits better than the big backs because of this. Obviously there are times at the goal line or in 3rd/4th and short when you would want to use a bigger back but I fail to see how either of these guys would not be able to handle 20+ touches per game for multiple seasons.Just ask Warrick Dunn after his 12 seasons 181 games and 11,000 yards.
tribecalledjeff
Footballguy
Does your league give bonus points for 300 carries?
bcr8f
Footballguy
I like Leon better.
lyon812
Footballguy
Only 5 running backs had over 300 carries this year. The 11th back had 253. Dunn's had years of 265, 280, and 286 since 2004, plus 245, 248, 224, and 230 earlier in his career.I though the "bolded" part was discussing an EVERY DOWN BACK.No?
That's production.
stevegamer
Footballguy
So, there are just 5 every-down backs in the NFL?I never said Dunn wasnt usefull or productive. I think you are confusing the point of debate.Only 5 running backs had over 300 carries this year. The 11th back had 253. Dunn's had years of 265, 280, and 286 since 2004, plus 245, 248, 224, and 230 earlier in his career.I though the "bolded" part was discussing an EVERY DOWN BACK.No?
That's production.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Ironically, we were talking about this at lunch today. Kind of reminds me of Mack Herron vs. Terry Metcalf circa 1973-74.
Sproles is Herron; very fun to watch, amazing because he is so short.
Washington is Metcalf; probably limited opportunity to start, but still has more potential to contribute on a weekly basis (to date and going forward IMO).
Good thread, though, this is a fun one to debate.
Sproles is Herron; very fun to watch, amazing because he is so short.
Washington is Metcalf; probably limited opportunity to start, but still has more potential to contribute on a weekly basis (to date and going forward IMO).
Good thread, though, this is a fun one to debate.
lyon812
Footballguy
Warrick Dunn has put up carry numbers equivalent to the vast majority of running backs in the league, multiple times, across multiple seasons. Likewise, it's very possible that Sproles could handle the same amount of carries. You can quibble about semantics all you want, but you don't get 260+ carries by being a third-down back--and throughout his history, Dunn has been very productive. There's no straw man, there; it's simply a statement that you can't pigeonhole Sproles.I could care less. Either way. Its a straw man.Warrick Dunn is NOT an every down back.So, there are just 5 every-down backs in the NFL?I never said Dunn wasnt usefull or productive. I think you are confusing the point of debate.Only 5 running backs had over 300 carries this year. The 11th back had 253. Dunn's had years of 265, 280, and 286 since 2004, plus 245, 248, 224, and 230 earlier in his career.I though the "bolded" part was discussing an EVERY DOWN BACK.No?
That's production.
He may, at times, had to perform that role for short stints. As any player might.
I do agree with the BOLDED statement that Sproles isnt an every down back.
And in post #2 I stated I would like to have Sproles in Pittsburgh.
Regardless of him not being a "every down back".
treat88
Footballguy
My anecdotal guess is that this is absolutely correct.However, perception not fact rules the day in the NFL just like in all other avenues of life.My guess is that executives and coaches involved in the decision making process will use this probable fallacy in determining what role Sproles might play for their teams.Perception, not ability will likely limit his touches to the 10-15 range on average.My initial guess is that he will be one of the most overvalued players in all of FF heading into 09.
Sproles just had a great game against a mediocre Indy Defense.
If he can back that up with a great game(or even a good one) against a excellent Pittsburgh Defense then I would be somewhat convinced he could take on a larger role. But let's see how he looks against Pittsburgh this week before you anoint him as the Great Short Hope.
If he can back that up with a great game(or even a good one) against a excellent Pittsburgh Defense then I would be somewhat convinced he could take on a larger role. But let's see how he looks against Pittsburgh this week before you anoint him as the Great Short Hope.
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Gold Plated Nails
Footballguy
Sproles isn't small, he is just short.
"His measurables from the NFL combine in 2005, where he lifted more weight and ran the 40-yard dash faster than any other running back, don't matter much anymore"
*225 Lbs Rep: 23
“He's got a lot of power,” said McCree, who spent the 2006 and '07 seasons in San Diego. “He packs a good punch, now. His legs are real big. If you look at his thighs, he's got good quad strength. He can pull away from you, run away from a tackle. He's a good back.”
I fall in the camp that if he gets a shot at more carries he will produce quite surprisingly. he has been stuck behind a HOF League MVP and 1700 yrd Michael Turner. Hard to get a shot.
"His measurables from the NFL combine in 2005, where he lifted more weight and ran the 40-yard dash faster than any other running back, don't matter much anymore"
*225 Lbs Rep: 23
“He's got a lot of power,” said McCree, who spent the 2006 and '07 seasons in San Diego. “He packs a good punch, now. His legs are real big. If you look at his thighs, he's got good quad strength. He can pull away from you, run away from a tackle. He's a good back.”
I fall in the camp that if he gets a shot at more carries he will produce quite surprisingly. he has been stuck behind a HOF League MVP and 1700 yrd Michael Turner. Hard to get a shot.
Banger
Footballguy
The only time SJax followed a 250 carry season with another 250 carry season he followed the next two seasons with 12 game seasons due to injuries (both less than 250 carries). Gore has never had 3 consecutive 250+ carry seasons, R. Brown hasn't had 3 consecutive 250+ carry seasons, Westbrook hasn't had 3 consecutive 250+carry seasons, Larry Johnson hasn't had 3 consecutive 250 + carry seasons, M. Barber hasn't had one 250+ carry season, Drew hasn't had one 200 carry season. So what's your point? Are none of these guys built for it?If that's your criteria for a back that's properly built I think your population with the current NFL Rb's is a population of 2, LT and Portis.
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