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Darrius Heyward-Bey (1 Viewer)

K

Knobs

Footballguy
Did anyone actually watch this mess of a game yesterday?

JaMarcus pegged him for a long bomb between the numbers and...CLANK.

JaMarcus gets benched, Gradkowski comes in...and completes it to him for what appears to be a first down, only he didn't drag his foot when he could have done so fairly easily.

Gradkowski goes back to him and hits him with a very catchable ball...CLANK. Again.

He's started the 9 games for Oakland this year and has a total of 6 catches for 96 yards. On about 30 targets.

I know this team isn't very good (though imo they have the talent to be much better than their record and level of play). I know JaMarcus isn't Peyton. But he simply looks awful. Poor routes, lousy hands...is there any reason for legitimate hope out of this kid or is it too early to call a high first round wr a bust after a little over half a season?

 
All I know is I hope you aren't starting him!!! He's been terrible, I thought he might be better than that. He was good receiver at MD, but this year he's a bust for sure.

 
Bust - even Michael Irvin was saying last night that he never saw a rookie WR drop so many passes before.

For all the complaining Crabtree did during his holdout, he should be thankful that he didn't end up in the wasteland called the Oakland Raiders. He is better off for it.

 
DHB would be a bust on any team. That he was picked so high was just as boneheaded a decision by the Raiders as their pick of Sebastian Janikowski in the first round years back.

 
People love to pile on Oakland and were calling him a bust the minute he was drafted at #7, considered a reach. I mean, maybe he is, but he never got a chance to prove himself. And still hasn't, with the state of the passing game. I don't understand why people are rabid to celebrate his failure. At least wait a couple years.

 
munygon2 said:
All I know is I hope you aren't starting him!!! He's been terrible, I thought he might be better than that. He was good receiver at MD, but this year he's a bust for sure.
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I'm talking about real life. I can't imagine anyone would possibly still be starting him in their league unless they get points for drops.
 
Literary Reference said:
People love to pile on Oakland and were calling him a bust the minute he was drafted at #7, considered a reach. I mean, maybe he is, but he never got a chance to prove himself. And still hasn't, with the state of the passing game. I don't understand why people are rabid to celebrate his failure. At least wait a couple years.
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Yeah, even Randy Moss looked bad in Oakland.
 
He became a bust when Oakland drafted him. No prospect can recover from that. He needs coaching and structure to develop, and Oakland is not going to provide that. Also, he is 2nd on the team amongst WRs in catches and yards. It's Oakland.

 
Literary Reference said:
People love to pile on Oakland and were calling him a bust the minute he was drafted at #7, considered a reach. I mean, maybe he is, but he never got a chance to prove himself. And still hasn't, with the state of the passing game. I don't understand why people are rabid to celebrate his failure. At least wait a couple years.
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What are you talking about?He's had lots of chances thus far. He may improve as many rookie wr's tend to do but there's no way you can say he hasn't had opportunities or looked anything but terrible.
 
jurb26 said:
Bust? After 9 weeks in putrid Oak? It's a little early for that talk.
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Why? I can imagine the route running and other aspects would improve but why will he suddenly start catching the ball with his hands and holding onto the thing?When IS it okay to start calling a person a bust?
 
Living in Maryland (where DHB grew up and played in college), I seldom heard a knowledgable fan express great enthusiasm for DHB as a pro. Yes, he has world class speed, but he would disappear for entire games vs. the likes of NC State and Virginia. And his incredible straight line speed didn't translate well into quickness or lateral movement. People around here were living in fear that he might drop to the Ravens in the late 20s of last year's draft and they would have to face the decision about whether or not to draft him.

People liked him as a hometown player, and wanted Flacco to get a legit WR threat, but weren't convinced that DHB was the guy. I think the ceiling for his career is to be a guy like James Jett.

 
Knobs said:
Literary Reference said:
People love to pile on Oakland and were calling him a bust the minute he was drafted at #7, considered a reach. I mean, maybe he is, but he never got a chance to prove himself. And still hasn't, with the state of the passing game. I don't understand why people are rabid to celebrate his failure. At least wait a couple years.
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What are you talking about?He's had lots of chances thus far. He may improve as many rookie wr's tend to do but there's no way you can say he hasn't had opportunities or looked anything but terrible.
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He's a ROOKIE on a bad football team. You can call him a fantasy bust for sure, but it's waaaay too early to call him an NFL bust. He's not the first WR to struggle in his first season. His rookie season just looks historically bad because he has a terrible QB throwing him the rock. How can a guy get into any kind of rhythm trying to catch passes from a dude with a 47.9 QB rating?
 
When is it too soon to call this guy a bust?
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anytime during his rookie season for damn sureI'm not high on the guy, never was, and the raiders picking him up didn't help any...but a lot of WRs suck as rookies. Not to mention, who knows what will happen in regards to getting a real QB/ Al Davis finally, finally dyingIf you thought highly enough of him to draft him (I didn't, passed him up at 2.10) what's happened so far shouldn't change that.
 
jurb26 said:
Bust? After 9 weeks in putrid Oak? It's a little early for that talk.
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So you missed the play where the ball went thru his hands and the 2nd play where he acted like the volleyball player who sets the teammate up for the spike when he flipped the ball up in the air after it bounced off his chest and the defender caught it.The only thing to discuss about Heyward-Bey is the question of, Is he better or worse than Troy Williamson. That's it.
 
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FavreCo said:
jurb26 said:
Bust? After 9 weeks in putrid Oak? It's a little early for that talk.
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So you missed the play where the ball went thru his hands and the 2nd play where he acted like the volleyball player who sets the teammate up for the spike when he flipped the ball up in the air after it bounced off his chest and the defender caught it.The only thing to discuss about Heyward-Bey is the question of, Is he better or worse than Troy Williamson. That's it.
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:coffee: Once I saw those lowlights, even I could tell that he does not have the skills to be an NFL WR and he is very unlikely to ever develop those skills. This guy has trouble catching a ball, let along catching a ball with his hands.
 
Darrius Heyward-Bey, When is it too soon to call this guy a bust?

Sounds like you missed the bus.

This guy has been a bust since Day 1.

Jeremy Maclin gained more yards in one game then Bey will have for the whole season.

 
FavreCo said:
jurb26 said:
Bust? After 9 weeks in putrid Oak? It's a little early for that talk.
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So you missed the play where the ball went thru his hands and the 2nd play where he acted like the volleyball player who sets the teammate up for the spike when he flipped the ball up in the air after it bounced off his chest and the defender caught it.The only thing to discuss about Heyward-Bey is the question of, Is he better or worse than Troy Williamson. That's it.
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:whoosh: I fully expected him to be raw. But I would have also expected to see something, no matter how small that glimpse, of the talent he has to offer. Many of the other rookie wr's have shown some glimmer of greatness, or at least flashed a bit of talent.He can run fast. His routes are poor but that's to be expected with a rookie wr. The thing that ISN'T expected with rookie wr's is for them to drop the ball when it hits them in the hands or between the numbers. Imo either you can catch or you can't - I think everything else can be worked on but there's only so much that can be improved upon in that regard. And DHB's hands have looked like garbage. He's looking like Ginn or Williamson out there.
 
Knobs said:
And DHB's hands have looked like garbage. He's looking like Ginn or Williamson out there.
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How can you say his hands look like garbage... when he hasn't used his hands to catch a ball yet this year? If the ball doesn't hit him squarely in the chest, he can't catch a ball. he's a bust for the raiders this year, but give him a year and a receivers coach who can teach him how to use his hands and he may be able to turn things around quickly.
 
Debeucci said:
Knobs said:
And DHB's hands have looked like garbage. He's looking like Ginn or Williamson out there.
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How can you say his hands look like garbage... when he hasn't used his hands to catch a ball yet this year? If the ball doesn't hit him squarely in the chest, he can't catch a ball. he's a bust for the raiders this year, but give him a year and a receivers coach who can teach him how to use his hands and he may be able to turn things around quickly.
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I'm just waiting for the lasik surgery excuse. This guy sucks so bad, he could have Jerry Rice, Freddie B. and Tim Brown working with him 24 hours a day for 10 years and he would still drop everything.
 
Knew he'd be a bust long before he was even drafted. He's just not a natural hands catcher or route runner. Speed only gets you so far in the NFL and it seems many NFL GM's have yet to realize this.

 
offdee said:
Knew he'd be a bust long before he was even drafted. He's just not a natural hands catcher or route runner. Speed only gets you so far in the NFL and it seems many NFL GM's have yet to realize this.
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THAT is what is really amazing.
 
You guys are crazy. Look at Steve Smith's rookie year for starters. Hell both of them lol.

I'd love to offer a 5th/6th round rookie pick for 2010 in a dynasty league just to take DHB off their hands.

 
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Did you just compare Bey to the Smith's. :thumbdown:

Watch the video. Bey is not even in the same league. His drops are now legendary. Won't even be in the league in 4 years. 1 contract and then gone from the game. Seriously, this guy has no WR skills at all.

 
The funny thing about Al Davis - the man behind the curtain during the Raiders draft - is that he gets fixated on a particular skill and completely ignores whether the player can actually play football.

Janikowski can kick the ball a long way (hence the waste of a first-round pick)

McFadden is fast (actually not a horrible pick, though not a good one)

Russell can throw the ball a long way (so what if he's inaccurate, unmotivated, and has no head for the game)

DHB is very fast (so what if he can't catch)

And last year with their second pick they took the fastest CB, who was projected to be a last-round pick if he got drafted at all. The Raiders look to be set up for more entertaining early first-round picks. This year I think they'll set the record for consecutive 11-loss seasons.

Bottom line is that DHB hasn't shown anything to make people think he'll be good in a few years. For a reality check, try comparing him to the other rookie receivers. Would you rather have DHB than any of Harvin, Nicks, Maclin, or Crabtree? I didn't think so.

 
Unwrittenlaw said:
You guys are crazy. Look at Steve Smith's rookie year for starters. Hell both of them lol.I'd love to offer a 5th/6th round rookie pick for 2010 in a dynasty league just to take DHB off their hands.
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Steve Smith actually caught the ball...I'd much rather have a player who catches passes but doesn't have a lot of opportunities vs. a guy who simply cannot catch the ball.Can someone think of a wr who started off being seemingly incapable of catching the ball but later turned it around?
 
Looks pretty certain he won't be worth the 7th overall pick, but I think it's way too early to call him a bust as an NFL player.

 
fridayfrenzy said:
Calling a rookie a bust after 9 games in the NFL?....come on now.
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Okay, so when is okay to start saying a wide receiver who can't catch the ball is not going to be good in the NFL?A wr's main job is to catch the football...the route running, speed, everything else, is irrelevant if they can't catch.
 
Otis said:
Knobs said:
fridayfrenzy said:
Calling a rookie a bust after 9 games in the NFL?....come on now.
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Okay, so when is okay to start saying a wide receiver who can't catch the ball is not going to be good in the NFL?A wr's main job is to catch the football...the route running, speed, everything else, is irrelevant if they can't catch.
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A couple of seasons at least.
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Why?If there are other wr's who looked lousy catching the ball but later totally turned it around then I'll come around to waiting on the kid.Otherwise, I see no reason to not judge a guy even if it is incredibly early. The route running and other things are to be expected from a rookie wr. And those are things he should be given time for. I don't really care if you're in your first year or tenth year - if the ball hits you in the hands you should catch it. And I don't know what would change so much from your first year to the next that would cause you to no longer have hands of stone.Imo you can either catch or you can't. I believe most everything else can be significantly improved upon but the two things that can't really be changed are your speed and your ability to catch. That's not going to change by any noticeable margin. Be it your first year or last year.
 
You have to give a top Wr at least two or three seasons, but what concerns me about him is the dropsies. I can't think of one case where a rookie has such bad hands and manages to become sure handed later. I don't know why but it seems like catching is one of those things that you either do well by this point in your career or you don't.

 
Knobs said:
Otis said:
Knobs said:
fridayfrenzy said:
Calling a rookie a bust after 9 games in the NFL?....come on now.
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Okay, so when is okay to start saying a wide receiver who can't catch the ball is not going to be good in the NFL?A wr's main job is to catch the football...the route running, speed, everything else, is irrelevant if they can't catch.
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A couple of seasons at least.
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Why?If there are other wr's who looked lousy catching the ball but later totally turned it around then I'll come around to waiting on the kid.
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There are plenty of NFL players who looked like garbage as rookies and turned out to be good. If after 2-3 years he looks like crap, maybe then you declare him a bust (though even some folks, like Thomas Jones, emerge after that).But do what you want. Call him a bust. I'm just trying to be a voice of reason in the Shark Pool, and that's automatically swimming against the current.

HTH.

Or not.

 
At whatever point JaMarcus Russell is no longer throwing him the ball, add 24 starts to that. Even some of the NFL's best WR's have often taken 2-3 years before the light comes on.

 
Glad I drafted him, I'll enjoy waiting for him to develop like I did with Mike Williams and Troy Williamson... Thankyou for this thread btw, I think I'm going downstairs to find a bottle of tums now...

 
Knobs said:
Carolina Hustler said:
Knobs said:
FantasyTrader said:
At whatever point JaMarcus Russell is no longer throwing him the ball, add 24 starts to that. Even some of the NFL's best WR's have often taken 2-3 years before the light comes on.
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Like who?
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Seriously?
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Seriously.Start naming folk.
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You've not heard of the third year receiver theory? You can't be serious... You could almost google it couldn't you? Maybe even on wiki...
 
I really can't be bothered to do the research for you, I'm sure you're fully capable. But here's just the first few hits on google amoung millions of potential articles... I haven't read them so I can't say what you'll find... Good luck with the education!!

http://football.about.com/b/2009/08/27/thi...upside-list.htm

http://sports.espn.go.com/fantasy/football...nfldk2k83rdyrWR

http://www.footballdocs.com/WR_three_year_rule.html

http://top-fantasy-football.com/ffb-advice...eceiver-theory/

http://getafilm.blogspot.com/2009/09/getaf...e-receiver.html

http://www.fantasyfootballfools.com/jacob-...ts-coincidence/

 
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A lot of y'all seem to be quibbling over the definition of "bust".

Does the fact that he has played so poorly for his draft slot constitutes a bust or the fact that he has only has 30 or so targets (and from Russell no less) means that we should reserve judgment. (The latter position coming mostly from Heyward-Bey owners, I presume)

Here's what we do know.

At this point is his career I can't think of a WR who has had such an extremely inverse proportional relationship between his draft slot and how historically horrific he has looked on the field.

Maybe he'll be good some day, but at this point is his career his has gigantic strides to make just to reach the stellar, heights of "adequate".

Maybe he's not a bust yet, but he has a Ryan Leaf like jump on his road to Bustville.

 
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