Daunte Culpepper criticism (1 Viewer)

[Facecow]

There's been lots of chatter about the Vikings problems over the last 3 games. Much of the talk has centered around whether Daunte is to blame for the Vikes woes. I may think such talk is ridiculous but others are convinced that the man is "dumb" or has been unwilling/unable to run with the ball when the opportunity presents itself.One of the reporters in town, Pat Reusse, thinks much of this criticism is thinly veiled racism. I'm not about to defend his comments but I thought some of you folks may enjoy the read and some discussion.Anyway, here's the goods on the topic from Minneapolis' leading fish-wrap - the StarTribune.com:

Bulletin for the Daunte Culpepper haters:You are either idiots or you are racists, which often is the same thing.There is a difference between the actual fans of this team who suffer momentary frustration when the quarterback fails on a chance to convert a third down, and the guy in your circle of football pals who shouts incessantly that Culpepper is a "dumb" quarterback."If I showed you a couple of letters I've gotten, you would die," coach Mike Tice said. "There was one so bad last season that I turned it over to league security. I got another one from the same guy this year -- unsigned, of course, but I could tell by the scrawl that it was him."Most of the Culpepper-bashing correspondence Tice receives is not as blatantly racist. It comes with "dumb" and other code words popular among those bar jacket-wearing rednecks who use the telecast of a Vikings game as an excuse to drink in the daytime.You probably know in your heart which group you belong, idiot or racist/idiot, but here's the test: If you in any way found yourself blaming Culpepper for Sunday's loss in San Diego, then you are in the second group.It also means that no matter your religious background -- Catholic, Protestant, Judaism, Muslim -- you should take a half-hour to read Archbishop Harry Flynn's manifesto on racism in Minnesota. Fact is, I'm somewhat suspicious that Flynn decided to issue this paper after being with a group of Vikings fans when Culpepper threw an interception near the end of the Giants' game.Culpepper was 32-for-44 for 370 yards and four touchdowns Sunday in San Diego. The lone interception came late, when he had to make a throw, and when he didn't have the benefit of a woozy Randy Moss being in the pattern.Culpepper's quarterback rating for the season is 107.1, second only to Tennessee's Steve McNair among NFL starters.Culpepper threw 23 interceptions and lost nine fumbles last season. He had another 15 fumbles that were not lost. He has three interceptions and three lost fumbles (out of six total) in 6 1/2 games this season.Culpepper said Wednesday he put much focus on reducing turnovers entering this season. He has done that and at the same time maintained exceptional productivity. Even with those 2 1/2 games missed, he will approach 3,500 passing yards. He has 15 touchdown passes and will fly past his subpar total of 18 last season.Asked if Culpepper rated among the most improved Vikings, Tice said: "I think based on last season, yes . . . He's playing smart football. They don't hand out 107 quarterback ratings because you have a great smile. They hand them out because you're not turning the ball over, you're not doing the things that hurt your team."There have been some throws I'm sure he wished he could make, but every single quarterback has throws he wished he could make."The difference between what's happening in Minnesota in 2003 and elsewhere is that not every single highly-productive quarterback who mixes in a couple of bad throws has a cult of crazed critics.The people not willing to see the tinge of racism in these irrational attacks on Culpepper will say this: Quarterbacks are always at the eye of the storm.Perhaps, but no Vikings' quarterback has ever played with the proficiency with which Culpepper has played this season and suffered such relentless abuse from the public.The Purple Faithful gave Tommy Kramer absolution through several seasons of inconsistent play. When the fans finally turned on him, it was never with the venom Culpepper has faced.We have had starting quarterbacks who were black around here previously, in Warren Moon and Randall Cunningham. Both were late in their careers and played very well. They did not face as much abuse as Culpepper, although we can remember how quick the Purple Faithful was to call for Brad Johnson and Jeff George as their replacements.Apparently, Culpepper brings an even greater problem for Minnesota's rednecks. He's a young man (27 next January) who figures to be at the helm of the Vikings for another decade.Live with it. Better yet, celebrate it.Culpepper's going to win a Super Bowl before he's done. There's every reason for it to happen while he's still wearing Purple.

 

[Neo]

I don't understand any of this really. The guy puts up great numbers....the problem is the DEFENSE not the quarterback. The guy isn't throwing interceptions and is putting points on the board. Once the defense learns that you can't give up 30 points a week, maybe then they'll win a few more games. I thought New Yorkers were harsh critics but jeesh people need to wake up and face facts.

 

[Mrskoal333]

As a longtime Viking fan I wish they would put in Frerotte and atleast give him a shot. He did well when he played ealier this year. He gives Moss a chance to go and get the ball where Culpepper seems to hold the ball if Moss is covered. Im a believer that even if Moss is covered and you throw it up to him he will come down with more than his share. Frerotte does that so I think they should give him a chance.

 

[BlueOnion]

Born in Minnesota and devote Minnesota (native) fan, it is terribly obvious there is some racism in Minnesota. It really sickens me and Reusse makes some great points; Fans never turned on Brad Johnson or Jeff George, but they are so quick to turn on Randall Cunningham or Dante after a bad game or two. If you look at Dante's numbers they are astounding. Fans were very tolerant of Tommy Kramer through the years and I think he only had one solid season. PS - I did love Tommy Kramer myself though and was very forgiving to his faults and short comings, as well as with Dante.Here are the facts, Daunte has a 107.0+ quarterback rating and the defense is giving up 450+ yards a game. Why in the world are we criticizing the quarterback with the 107.0 rating?MrSkoal333 -I recall last year (the Randy Ratio) Dante threw quite a few balls 'up' for Moss, but over the course of the full season the idea was terrible. Sure Gus looked good in 2 games (the 1/2 game against Detroit Moss was not healthy) throwing it up for Moss, but to expect that to work for 16 games is wrong, as we saw last season.The BlueOnion

 

[babydemon90]

As a longtime Viking fan I wish they would put in Frerotte and atleast give him a shot. He did well when he played ealier this year. He gives Moss a chance to go and get the ball where Culpepper seems to hold the ball if Moss is covered. Im a believer that even if Moss is covered and you throw it up to him he will come down with more than his share. Frerotte does that so I think they should give him a chance.

You're kidding, right??

 

[Bonecrusher]

As a longtime Viking fan I wish they would put in Frerotte and atleast give him a shot. He did well when he played ealier this year. He gives Moss a chance to go and get the ball where Culpepper seems to hold the ball if Moss is covered. Im a believer that even if Moss is covered and you throw it up to him he will come down with more than his share. Frerotte does that so I think they should give him a chance.

The last couple of years Culpepper did this and low and behold - he has 23 INTs last year alone. Give the guy a break, Frerotte played against some questionable teams and played well against them. How else can you explain the fact that he has gone from the Redskins to the Lions to the Broncos to the Bengals to the The only game Daunte has looked awful this year was the Giants game. He really looked confused and clueless. They only lost that game in the 4th qrtr. The other 2 losses have to be "placed solely only the shoulders of the DEFENSE", plain and simple. Collins tore them up, Favre and Green tore them up and 50 year old Flutie and LT tore them up. I am pretty sure Frerotte would not have thrown for 370 and 4 against SD....The other factor here that no one is talking about is the Vikings constant rotation of RBs into the game. This has to affect the rhythm of the offense and subsequently the QB.

 

[faede]

When a cast-off like Gus Frerrote or hell, Todd Bouman can come in and put up numbers that equal or better Daunte Culpepper... that gets a person thinking that maybe it's not Culpepper that is making a good offense move... but instead... the players around Culpepper that raise Daunte up to their level. Let's be honest. With a guy like Randy Moss in Minnesota, it doesn't take alot of QB skill to play there. Throw the ball a zillion miles in the air and no matter how well covered he is, Moss is going to be the one that comes down with the ball. It's just what he does.Is Daunte playing better the last year? Yes. Is he making more plays? No. He's just not making the mistakes. I think Culpepper is still the best option in Minnesota, but, ragging on his detractors as racist is just counter-productive to everything. Worse yet, it lends credibility to what Rush Limbaugh said about McNabb. The race card is getting a little annoying in media. Contrary to that media's popular opinion, the fans of the NFL teams are not completely stupid redneck racist morons or stalker psychos who know nothing of what "really" goes on in the league. Of course, there are extremes in everything and there is some of that out there, but, jabbing at people who feel like they have a legitimate complaint and delegitimizing their complaint by assuming and implying it is all based on racism is freaking stupid journalism.F

 

[Lagputter]

As a longtime Viking fan I wish they would put in Frerotte and atleast give him a shot. He did well when he played ealier this year. He gives Moss a chance to go and get the ball where Culpepper seems to hold the ball if Moss is covered. Im a believer that even if Moss is covered and you throw it up to him he will come down with more than his share. Frerotte does that so I think they should give him a chance.

You are going to be the same guy that turns on Duante for throwing INT's when he starts throwing it up to Moss. Duante is the best QB going in Minnesota. Who did Gus face when he was in the lineup; Detroit, Atlanta, and Chicago. Do you think Duante wouldn't have put up even better numbers against those guys. And have you seen the pressure on Duante the last couple of games, Gus would have been killed. There was a reason that Gus couldn't make the team in Cinci. I love Gus as a backup, but he is far below the level of Duante. I am a die hard Viking fan, and watch as much of every game as possible. The defense is the problem, not Duante. You sound like a disgruntled Moss owner, and I don't know why you should be. I own Moss and love his production.

 

[Nomad]

Since we're on the subject, I'll bring something similar up. In his MMQB article, Peter King ranks his top 15 teams and then makes a little comment next to each team. Next to the Vikes he says, "I don't know what this team is anymore. Show me something, Daunte Culpepper." I had to send him an e-mail questioning that line. 370 yards passing, 40+ yards rushing, 4 TD passes, while the defense allows 42 points and Culpepper has to show him something?

 

[Willy]

I'm not sure I'd call it racist. People often think that mistake-prone QBs are 'dumb'. The first few years Brett Favre was the QB people called him dumb all the time, and often called for him to be replace by Ty Detmer or Mark Brunell. I'm not kidding. It took a long time before people lightened up of Favre. I think it was after the 1995 season people stopped calling for his benching. Culpepper seems to be going through similiar growng pains. Benching him for Frerotte would be idiotic. Frerotte is not exactly a genuis either. He once gave himself a concussion after scoring a TD by doing this

 

[Greg R]

I agree with the writer that there doesn't seem to be any reason for that kind of reaction to Culpepper. I hesitate to make the jump necessary to conclude that it's racism. But then again, I'm hard pressed to give another explanation for it besides idiocy. And I think idiocy has a hard time explaining why the Cpep bashing is as widespread and prevalent as it seems to be.The only thing I can come up with is, well, ok you could still call it idiocy. Daunte deserved some of the bashing in the past. But the flaws in his game that invited that kind of sentiment he has so corrected so far in the season. I can't explain why it is that some people were intelligent enough to recognize those shortcomings, but don't seem capable of recognizing that they aren't problems this year.I'll just say this, I think it took some major guts for the guy to write that column, whether he's right or not. In a world where ESPN writers are fired for not liking a Disney movie, that column took some cajones.

 

[TexCoug]

When a cast-off like Gus Frerrote or hell, Todd Bouman can come in and put up numbers that equal or better Daunte Culpepper... that gets a person thinking that maybe it's not Culpepper that is making a good offense move... but instead... the players around Culpepper that raise Daunte up to their level. Let's be honest. With a guy like Randy Moss in Minnesota, it doesn't take alot of QB skill to play there. Throw the ball a zillion miles in the air and no matter how well covered he is, Moss is going to be the one that comes down with the ball. It's just what he does.Is Daunte playing better the last year? Yes. Is he making more plays? No. He's just not making the mistakes. I think Culpepper is still the best option in Minnesota, but, ragging on his detractors as racist is just counter-productive to everything. Worse yet, it lends credibility to what Rush Limbaugh said about McNabb. The race card is getting a little annoying in media. Contrary to that media's popular opinion, the fans of the NFL teams are not completely stupid redneck racist morons or stalker psychos who know nothing of what "really" goes on in the league. Of course, there are extremes in everything and there is some of that out there, but, jabbing at people who feel like they have a legitimate complaint and delegitimizing their complaint by assuming and implying it is all based on racism is freaking stupid journalism.F

nicely put -- my feelings exactly. Problem is on this board because people evaluate football players on how many fantasy points they score -- they forget that there are some actual fans out there that are looking for their team to win. I am shocked anytime I hear a fantasy player talk about how great Daunte played last year. Wow. He was awful for his team. But, who cares about that on this board, right? I will give the homers a little leeway in their analysis for that matter.

 

[BlueOnion]

Faede -

I understand your statement:

"I think Culpepper is still the best option in Minnesota, but, ragging on his detractors as racist is just counter-productive to everything."

But if you have lived in Minnesota (like Reusse), he is making a statement based on many, many years of observations. These observations were made through the tenurs of Denny Green, Randall Cunningham, Warren Moon and some Randy Moss and not just a 'knee-jerk' reaction to the Dante Culpepper sentiment.

I cannot count how many times I have heard fans make comments where I just scratch my head. But the common denominator is usually the skin color of their targets.

Here are one example:

Denny Green. First, lets look at the team he took over:

1 A team that went 6-10.

2 A team that was depleted of youths because of the 4 years of no draft picks (Herchel Walker)

3 Many, many, many aging and selfish players; Chris Doleman, Joey Browner, Carl Lee to name a few that were immediately cut.

Now lets look at what he did his first year.

1 In his first year, he took the Vikings 11-5 and won the division.

Now lets look at what he did over the course of his tenure at Minnesota:

1 Review what he started with - he proceeded to make the playoffs 7 out of 9 years.

2 He did start off 0-5 in the playoffs. But these were rebuilding years. Which teams rebuild and go to the playoffs at the same time?

3 His system was quarterback friendly; thus his teams made the playoffs with a new quarterbacks each season (Rich Gannon, Sean Salisbury, Jeff George, Randall Cunningham, Brad Johnson, Dante Culpepper, Jim McMahon, Jay Fiedler, Todd Bouman, Warren Moon and maybe some others I am missing).

4 After rebuilding the team (while making the playoffs), Green goes 3-3 in the playoffs and makes two NFC Championship games in 3 seasons once he has the personel he wanted.

Look at the players he drafted (keep in mind the team never drafted high because Green's teams were always 8-8 or better) and rebuilt the team around while repeatedly qualifying for the playoffs.

Robert Smith

Dante Culpepper

Randy Moss

Jake Reed

Todd Stussie

Korey Stringer

Matt Birk

Dwayne Rudd (questionable here)

Chris Hovan

Kalie Wong (Houston)

Ed McDaniel (couple pro bowls ?? maybe just one)

Now I am not saying Dennis Green is a great coach, he has some short comings and fans have a right to critize these short comings. But Green really turned the franchise around quickly without making fans suffer through some bad seasons. He also gave them some real competitive teams, going to two NFC Championship games. I just think the fans of Minnesota could have been grateful at least one season for what Green did for them.

The team Mike Tice took over last season was considerably better than the team Denny Green first took over. Mike Tice got more accolades and love from the fans of Minnesota by going 6-10 then Green did with lesser talent and going 11-5 and winning the division.

It is observations like this Reusse is talking about, and if you follow the Minnesota local media, there is a predominate trend.

The BlueOnion

 

[ericttspikes]

You are going to be the same guy that turns on Duante for throwing INT's when he starts throwing it up to Moss.

I totally agree. Cpeps detractors wanted to yank him last year because he was a turnover machine, usually because he forced it to Moss who alligator armed a pass or simply didn't make the effort to grab it or make a play on the CB. This year is night and day for Daunte. He is making plays and running a efficient O. Players have to make plays, and not turn it over, and Daunte is doing his part.Even Moss is having probably his best season. Sure, a few highlight 50 yarders were heaved by the gruff but loveable Gus, but what did he have to lose? A perennial bench player with a good arm. If Randy makes the play good for them, if not, he's seeing the pine in a few weeks. Any team that gets steamrolled by the Charges and a 41 year old QB should be looking hard at the other side of the ball and lay off Cpep.

 

[Mrskoal333]

The last couple of years Culpepper did this and low and behold - he has 23 INTs last year alone. Give the guy a break, Frerotte played against some questionable teams and played well against them. How else can you explain the fact that he has gone from the Redskins to the Lions to the Broncos to the Bengals to the The only game Daunte has looked awful this year was the Giants game. He really looked confused and clueless. They only lost that game in the 4th qrtr. The other 2 losses have to be "placed solely only the shoulders of the DEFENSE", plain and simple. Collins tore them up, Favre and Green tore them up and 50 year old Flutie and LT tore them up. I am pretty sure Frerotte would not have thrown for 370 and 4 against SD....The other factor here that no one is talking about is the Vikings constant rotation of RBs into the game. This has to affect the rhythm of the offense and subsequently the QB.

Did you ever think that maybe Dante wasnt throwing the ball up to Moss in the right spot and Frerotte was? I saw the games that frerotte played this year and they scored at will because he went to Moss. If you give Moss the chances he can sure make a QB look good. Culpepper hasnt given him enough chances to make him look good, thus people in Mineesota want him benched. Untill he gets the ball to Moss and wins games he will be under fire in Minnesota.

 

[VikesFan]

AS a viking fan I don't understand the reasoning behind the Culpepper bashing. DC doesn't play defense, he is not the one giving up the yards and points to other teams. I did a quick comparison of the numbers and this is what I found. G YDS TDS INTS RushYDs TDSC.Pepper 53 12012 80 55 1685 25T.Aikmen 54 10527 54 60 J.Elway 58 11637 66 65 893 3D.Marino 59 16177 142 67J.Motana 56 8069 52 32C.Pepper is as productive if not more than some HOFer's. Did he struggle last year, yes, but it was more due to the stupid Randy Ratio and forcing the ball when he shouldn't have.

 

[Sack-Religious.]

Blaming Daunte for the Vikes woes is ridiculous.For the season the Vikings offience is averaging 27.8 ppg, which should be more than enough to win games.For the season the Vikes D is allowing 27 ppg. Ouch.While the Vikes were undefeated (first 6 games) and playing such notable championship contenders as the Lions, Bears, Falcons and to some degree the 49ers and the Boncos without Plummer. The Vikes O, managed 29.8 PPG NiceThe Vikes D, allowed 17.3 PPG - Very nice - but look at the opponents they played. Aside from GB, who is by far their best opponent to date, their schedule has been pretty easy.Now, over the past 3 games The Vikes have scored a paltry (in comparasin) 24 PPG and The Vikes D has allowed a whopping 33.6 PPGOver the season, when the Vikes D allows the opponent to score 26 or more, the Vikes lose. I'm going to state the painfully obvious here. Any team that allows almost 34 ppg is going to lose many more games than they win. Plain and simple. To put the blame on Culpepper for a D that hasn't been able to stop anyone is ridiculous. The team is continually putting up points in the mid 20's.

 

[ericttspikes]

Did you ever think that maybe Dante wasnt throwing the ball up to Moss in the right spot and Frerotte was?

If that is actually what Viqueen fans think, I wish the Bears would make a move to take Duante off their hands. There is a BIG reason Frerotte and Bouman are NFL backups, yet some queen fans think these chumps are and were better suited to be starters. I don't even think winning the Super Bowl would get people off his back. How many TD's is he supposed to throw to Moss in order to be considered good?

 

[Bonecrusher]

The last couple of years Culpepper did this and low and behold - he has 23 INTs last year alone. Give the guy a break, Frerotte played against some questionable teams and played well against them. How else can you explain the fact that he has gone from the Redskins to the Lions to the Broncos to the Bengals to the The only game Daunte has looked awful this year was the Giants game. He really looked confused and clueless. They only lost that game in the 4th qrtr. The other 2 losses have to be "placed solely only the shoulders of the DEFENSE", plain and simple. Collins tore them up, Favre and Green tore them up and 50 year old Flutie and LT tore them up. I am pretty sure Frerotte would not have thrown for 370 and 4 against SD....The other factor here that no one is talking about is the Vikings constant rotation of RBs into the game. This has to affect the rhythm of the offense and subsequently the QB.

Did you ever think that maybe Dante wasnt throwing the ball up to Moss in the right spot and Frerotte was? I saw the games that frerotte played this year and they scored at will because he went to Moss. If you give Moss the chances he can sure make a QB look good. Culpepper hasnt given him enough chances to make him look good, thus people in Mineesota want him benched. Untill he gets the ball to Moss and wins games he will be under fire in Minnesota.

Get the ball to Moss and wins games?? What else is he supposed to do? Change his number to #51 and play LB for them, I know he has the size but..... The Minn O is #1 in the NFL in yards/game and #4 in scoring . If that doesnt help you win games, I dont know what does. Unfortunately on the other side of the coin, the Minn D is #30 in yards/game and #20 in pts/game. Somehow I dont see how getting the ball more to Randy is going to help out those rankings. He got the ball to Randy last year, ala the Randy Ratio but that didnt quite work out in the most important column - Wins.....Gus beat the teams he was supposed to beat - Atlanta, Chicago and Detroit. I am not so sure that he could have done any better against the Giants, Packers and Chargers. Vikings fans sound just as bad as Buckeye fans (if the team isnt winning the blame has to be placed on somone, why not the QB?? ). Trust me, I know because I am one....

 

[Mrskoal333]

If that is actually what Viqueen fans think, I wish the Bears would make a move to take Duante off their hands. There is a BIG reason Frerotte and Bouman are NFL backups, yet some queen fans think these chumps are and were better suited to be starters. I don't even think winning the Super Bowl would get people off his back. How many TD's is he supposed to throw to Moss in order to be considered good?

I wish they would trade him to the Bears for Urlacher. No QB could help the Bears. They are in need of a whole new team. They could very easily be the worst team in football. If your a Bears fan I feel for you.

 

[snogger]

As a longtime Viking fan I wish they would put in Frerotte and atleast give him a shot. He did well when he played ealier this year. He gives Moss a chance to go and get the ball where Culpepper seems to hold the ball if Moss is covered. Im a believer that even if Moss is covered and you throw it up to him he will come down with more than his share. Frerotte does that so I think they should give him a chance.

Come on.. PLEEEAAASSEEE.. Ferrotee played a couple good games.. I'll give you that.. But the oppenents were WEAK.. If you have followed football at all for any length of time you will know that Ferrotte is a decent fill-in, but no way in HELL would I want to count on him week in and week out.Last year, everyone and thier 2nd cousins Tore Culpepper apart for trying to force it into Moss's hand and causing 23 INT's. This year he is playing smarter, trying to find a 2nd WR or even a 3rd to open up a route. If you can't see the logic behind the article, that the fault clearly lies at the feet of the defense and not Culpepper, than you are one of those that are mentioned in the article.

 

[BlueOnion]

VikesFan -Thanks for the numbers, they are very interesting. As far as numbers go, C-Pep is better than these guys (at this point in their respective careers):Troy AikmanJohn ElwayDan MarinoJoe MotanaBut there is a certain aspect of the game one cannot measure with numbers. Marino never won a super bowl, and Elway and Aikman won super bowls on the heels of some great rushing attacks (Emmitt Smith and Terrell Davis). Joe is the exception and but we cannot use Joe as a measure stick (much like trying to use Jordan as a measuring stick), he was simply one of the best ever.The BlueOnion

 

[Jobber]

Born in Minnesota and devote Minnesota (native) fan, it is terribly obvious there is some racism in Minnesota. It really sickens me and Reusse makes some great points; Fans never turned on Brad Johnson or Jeff George, but they are so quick to turn on Randall Cunningham or Dante after a bad game or two. If you look at Dante's numbers they are astounding. Fans were very tolerant of Tommy Kramer through the years and I think he only had one solid season. PS - I did love Tommy Kramer myself though and was very forgiving to his faults and short comings, as well as with Dante.Here are the facts, Daunte has a 107.0+ quarterback rating and the defense is giving up 450+ yards a game. Why in the world are we criticizing the quarterback with the 107.0 rating?MrSkoal333 -I recall last year (the Randy Ratio) Dante threw quite a few balls 'up' for Moss, but over the course of the full season the idea was terrible. Sure Gus looked good in 2 games (the 1/2 game against Detroit Moss was not healthy) throwing it up for Moss, but to expect that to work for 16 games is wrong, as we saw last season.The BlueOnion

Wrong on all counts. The racism thing is ridiculous. Jeez. Get a grip. Remember the name Jim McMahon? Just because MN has had a few black QBs in the last few years, doesn't mean they're exempt from being ripped on. And yes, I think Culpepper is doing alright. He could run a little more to keep the defense honest (though I guess he may be hesitant because of his back). And once in a while he seems a little gunshy. The defense is the problem for sure though.

 

[aardball44]

...rednecks who use the telecast of a Vikings game as an excuse to drink in the daytime.

OMG! I'm a racist redneck and didn't even know it! If the Vikes fans have grown weary of Culpepper's services, there are more than a few teams in the league who'd gladly welcome "Dumb Daunte" into their huddle.

 

[hove]

Is he making more plays? No. He's just not making the mistakes.

Welcome to the new NFL. I think that's pretty much (the Rams aside) to describe the last 4 or 5 SB champs. QB doesn't turn it over, score just enough points, and have a great Defense.

 

[Arm Chair Express]

Minnesota as a team hasn't played well since CPep has been back and people have to put the blame somewhere and because the QB is suppose to be the leader, I think it naturally falls on him. Ferotte looked good against inferior teams and CPep comes back and can't seem to get a win. Well, I guess its CPep's fault. We have the same thing here in Michigan, Harrington sucks because his receivers can't hold onto the ball right? I hear people call for Mike McMahon, but that isn't going to change the fact that the receivers still can't catch the damn ball? No, its not. Just like CPep throwing the ball up for Moss isn't going to win as long as the D is giving up 42 points to a 1 win team.

 

[Mrskoal333]

Come on.. PLEEEAAASSEEE.. Ferrotee played a couple good games.. I'll give you that.. But the oppenents were WEAK.. If you have followed football at all for any length of time you will know that Ferrotte is a decent fill-in, but no way in HELL would I want to count on him week in and week out.Last year, everyone and thier 2nd cousins Tore Culpepper apart for trying to force it into Moss's hand and causing 23 INT's. This year he is playing smarter, trying to find a 2nd WR or even a 3rd to open up a route. If you can't see the logic behind the article, that the fault clearly lies at the feet of the defense and not Culpepper, than you are one of those that are mentioned in the article.

I never said Frerotte was any good. Just said maybe hes better than Culpepper. Any decent QB should be able to run Minnesotas high powered offense. Hell even Gannon took the raiders to a super bowl last year. Maybe it had to do with the talent around him? Plummer didnt do much in Arizona but i bet he does in Denver in the near future. Culpepper would not even be a starter in the NFL other than the fact that when he started he had Moss and Carter which anyone could throw to. Thats why people think he is any good.

 

[BlackLab]

I cannot believe people are that myopic (CPep bashers).Just throw it up to Moss? Don't you pay ANY attention to the weekly info from the coaches? Tice flat out said they told Daunte NOT to go deep the 2nd half of the Charger game. He was trying desperately to keep the Eden Prairie HS team... ooops, I mean Defense... off the friggin field. Add to that the fact that Moss had a concussion, and couldn't figure out which way to run. Geez.What about the GB game... do you "just throw it up to Moss" when they have a DB & a LB jamming him at the line? Nice call, throw it up to Moss who is being tackled on the line of scrimmage... BRILLIANT!Good Lord, I wish some people would actually watch football.

 

[Da Guru]

Im my book Culpepper is the greatest FantasyFootball QB of all-time!

 

[Sack-Religious.]

I cannot believe people are that myopic (CPep bashers).Just throw it up to Moss? Don't you pay ANY attention to the weekly info from the coaches? Tice flat out said they told Daunte NOT to go deep the 2nd half of the Charger game. He was trying desperately to keep the Eden Prairie HS team... ooops, I mean Defense... off the friggin field. Add to that the fact that Moss had a concussion, and couldn't figure out which way to run. Geez.What about the GB game... do you "just throw it up to Moss" when they have a DB & a LB jamming him at the line? Nice call, throw it up to Moss who is being tackled on the line of scrimmage... BRILLIANT!Good Lord, I wish some people would actually watch football.

Great points. However people don't merely need to "watch" football. They need to fully understand football. And by understanding, I don't mean. "My FF team is 8-2 and player a is better than player b"If half the detractors had an inkling of understanding they would no longer be detractors.

 

[Mrskoal333]

I cannot believe people are that myopic (CPep bashers).Just throw it up to Moss? Don't you pay ANY attention to the weekly info from the coaches? Tice flat out said they told Daunte NOT to go deep the 2nd half of the Charger game. He was trying desperately to keep the Eden Prairie HS team... ooops, I mean Defense... off the friggin field. Add to that the fact that Moss had a concussion, and couldn't figure out which way to run. Geez.What about the GB game... do you "just throw it up to Moss" when they have a DB & a LB jamming him at the line? Nice call, throw it up to Moss who is being tackled on the line of scrimmage... BRILLIANT!Good Lord, I wish some people would actually watch football.

Thats another thing wrong with Minny. Their coach sucks. they get a 6 point lead and try to run the clock out instead of putting more points on the board. Are you an idiot? Hell yes you throw it up to moss if the Packers are tackling him, its called pass interferance. If you watched the game you would know he had the concussion after the gamne was basically out of reach, moron.

 

[tdoss]

I think the writer is full of crap and just trying to make a story here...Racism in Minnesota...sure...it's everywhere...every race has racists...But he completely loses his point when he says that WMoon and RCunningham never faced the abuse that DCulpepper has...OK...wait...what? I thought his point was that this abuse was racially motivated...but then points out that two other black QB's never faced this same abuse?The problem is...Minny fans get so excited when they see RMoss catching big passes...the team putting up great points...MBennett coming back healthy and CPep putting up great numbers...but are still losing lately. Especially in light of such a great start...Minny fans had delusions of granduer and were already saving their hard earned cash for their Super Bowl tickets...however, the defense reared it's truer ugly head and now everyone's pissed and are not sure who to blame. CPep is the leader...so many point there first...and sure...maybe racism keeps them pointing there...but this writer seems to me to be someone trying to make mountains out of molehills. His examples being a couple letters from one deranged fan...wow...yep...there's definitely a problem in Minnesota...I say bring them all up on hate crime charges...

 

[BlackLab]

I cannot believe people are that myopic (CPep bashers).Just throw it up to Moss? Don't you pay ANY attention to the weekly info from the coaches? Tice flat out said they told Daunte NOT to go deep the 2nd half of the Charger game. He was trying desperately to keep the Eden Prairie HS team... ooops, I mean Defense... off the friggin field. Add to that the fact that Moss had a concussion, and couldn't figure out which way to run. Geez.What about the GB game... do you "just throw it up to Moss" when they have a DB & a LB jamming him at the line? Nice call, throw it up to Moss who is being tackled on the line of scrimmage... BRILLIANT!Good Lord, I wish some people would actually watch football.

Thats another thing wrong with Minny. Their coach sucks. they get a 6 point lead and try to run the clock out instead of putting more points on the board. Are you an idiot? Hell yes you throw it up to moss if the Packers are tackling him, its called pass interferance. If you watched the game you would know he had the concussion after the gamne was basically out of reach, moron.

I guess I am an idiot... here I thought you were allowed to jam somebody for the first 5 yards. Guess that must not be, you certainly wouldn't resort to name calling if you didn't know what you were talking about... right

 

[BlueOnion]

On a side note, Reusse notoriously 'stirs the pot' and has made a career out of it. Usually I ignore his columns because many times he will bash the home-team (vikings) just to boost his ratings in the Twin Cities. The BlueOnion

 

[Greg R]

If you watched the game you would know he had the concussion after the gamne was basically out of reach, moron.

With more than 2 minutes to go, they were 8 yards from a TD that would have had them within one score. The game wasn't out of reach until the INT where Moss took the play off because he already had the concussion.

 

[The Rook]

Doesn't it really come down to the fact that some people have to have something to complain about? It's hard to complain about an entire defense, but it's easy for some people to pick out Daunte or Tice. I don't see how Daunte can be blamed with the improvement he's made in reducing turnovers, while still putting up excellent numbers and points on the board for the Vikings. And I'm not going to argue that Tice is the most brilliant coach in football, but his candidness is somewhat refreshing. The defense needs work, but they've made a huge improvement over last year...Keep in mind that the people bashing Daunte aren't necessarily carrying the same opinion as the majority of viking fans. Then to make the stretch that being a Daunte detractor makes you racist is ridiculous and quite frankly undermines the efforts to get rid of true racism.

 

[Jason Wood]

When a cast-off like Gus Frerrote or hell, Todd Bouman can come in and put up numbers that equal or better Daunte Culpepper... that gets a person thinking that maybe it's not Culpepper that is making a good offense move... but instead... the players around Culpepper that raise Daunte up to their level. Let's be honest. With a guy like Randy Moss in Minnesota, it doesn't take alot of QB skill to play there. Throw the ball a zillion miles in the air and no matter how well covered he is, Moss is going to be the one that comes down with the ball. It's just what he does.Is Daunte playing better the last year? Yes. Is he making more plays? No. He's just not making the mistakes. I think Culpepper is still the best option in Minnesota, but, ragging on his detractors as racist is just counter-productive to everything. Worse yet, it lends credibility to what Rush Limbaugh said about McNabb. The race card is getting a little annoying in media. Contrary to that media's popular opinion, the fans of the NFL teams are not completely stupid redneck racist morons or stalker psychos who know nothing of what "really" goes on in the league. Of course, there are extremes in everything and there is some of that out there, but, jabbing at people who feel like they have a legitimate complaint and delegitimizing their complaint by assuming and implying it is all based on racism is freaking stupid journalism.F

nicely put -- my feelings exactly. Problem is on this board because people evaluate football players on how many fantasy points they score -- they forget that there are some actual fans out there that are looking for their team to win. I am shocked anytime I hear a fantasy player talk about how great Daunte played last year. Wow. He was awful for his team. But, who cares about that on this board, right? I will give the homers a little leeway in their analysis for that matter.

TexCoug,I think you make a point, but that was last year. No question that Duante, the fantasy QB, was the antithesis of Daunte, the NFL QB, last season because of his turnovers. He singlehandedly cost the Vikings quite a few games thanks to field position.But again, Daunte has done everything that was asked of him this season. He's always been a playmaker and now, he's minimized the mistakes.I don't know if it's racism as the columnist suggests, I'm sure for some it IS and for some it is just idiocy. But again, I've not found one Vikes homer who derides Culpepper's play THIS year who can give me a solid justification for the criticism other than the team's 3 game losing streak...to which no one that criticizes Culpep seems to recognize that the Vikes D is playing as poorly as any in the league, and then some.One thing I've considered though...Peyton Manning has his detractors, but I've listened to enough sports radio across the country to know that a vast majority of people consider him a great young QB versus the minority who view him as someone who can't win the big game. Peyton turns the ball over a fair amount, is a gun slinger, and his team has had some bad records to go along with better seasons. But my point is, how often do you hear people criticize Manning as being "dumb" or call for his no name backup to come in a play? Like it or not, there is still a fair amount of subtle racism in this country. Hopefully you live in an area that is more enlightened, but it's still around.Now, on the flip side, I don't think there's anything wrong with criticizing a player as being "dumb" regardless of the color of their skin. I personally believe that Aaron Brooks is a "dumb" player, and that's based on the fact that he consistently makes the same mistakes, smiles at times when he's completely failed to lead his team or made costly turnovers, throws into traffic as if it was his first time on a football field, and was let go by the Packers because he had trouble learning the playbook.Cheers

 

[faede]

But if you have lived in Minnesota (like Reusse), he is making a statement based on many, many years of observations. These observations were made through the tenurs of Denny Green, Randall Cunningham, Warren Moon and some Randy Moss and not just a 'knee-jerk' reaction to the Dante Culpepper sentiment.

While I didn't live in Minnesota itself, I lived in the one halfway (for Minn/Wisconsin standards) bigger city on the Minnesota/Wisconsin border. In my time there, I didn't see the racism that seems to be inferred in this guys article. Those that were calling for new blood when Cunningham and Moon were starting for the vikings weren't doing it for the sake of the race of the guy, they were doing so because the vikings obviously couldn't hinge future hopes on old QB's at the end of their career.They weren't racists and they weren't stupid.Culpepper is certainly the future of the vikings (though no, I certainly don't buy that 'Culpepper WILL win a super bowl someday with the vikings or someone else garbage'). But. Vikings fans have been dealing with ups and downs. 2 years ago, Culpepper was just filled with big play ability and showed a promise that was unreal. Last year he took that promise and bent it backward with all sorts of turnover problems. This year he's solved the turnover problems but something seems to be missing in that big play ability from 2 years ago.The problem with that is this.... the viking's defense is NOWHERE near good enough to rely on a mistake free QB and not the huge play guy. They need a guy that will WIN the game, a guy that WON'T LOSE it will just put pressure on their over rated defense.Also, for the record. Mike Tice is a bad coach. Bad. He's learning, but, that's what coaches are supposed to be doing as Assistant coaches in the league, not as a head coach. He's got more to do with Daunte's slide then anyone.Dennis Green was a much BETTER coach, in that he was half way decent, but, he did himself in by being stupid. He got himself canned in that ownership fiasco. He got too big for his britches and ended up doing something dumb. The vikings would be in much better shape if he was still at the helm, but that's water under the bridge.I don't agree with anyone who thinks that Culpepper is hurting the vikings chances and I don't agree with anyone who thinks that he should be benched in favor of someone else.I DO have a problem with anyone who thinks that this critcism is nothing but a bunch of stupid redneck racists.It, of course, shocks nobody that no race card issues were brought up when Brett Favre was struggling through his growing pains in the first few seasons of starting. He had some stinker games early, looked a lot like Culpepper did last year.. and got a ton of fan flack that Green Bay should bench him early and often. Holmgren didn't put a cap on his big play ability (like Culpepper seems to have had done to him this year) and you know, that turned out just fine.I am by no means saying that Culpepper will end up with as many accolades and the future Hall of fame, 3 time MVP iron man super bowl winner... but instead I'm only saying that 1) fans will gripe and 2) because the person the fans are griping about is black does NOT mean they are ignorant racists.F

 

[Greg R]

Doesn't it really come down to the fact that some people have to have something to complain about? It's hard to complain about an entire defense...

Speaking on behalf of Texans fans everywhere, no, it's not hard to complain about an entire defense.

 

[XNOUGHT]

I can't see how you can blame this on Culpepper.Look at his TD to INT ration.Look at his completion percentage.And compare it to every other QB in the league.Culpepper = goodI am sure some other team would love to take him.

 

[Mrskoal333]

I cannot believe people are that myopic (CPep bashers).Just throw it up to Moss?  Don't you pay ANY attention to the weekly info from the coaches?  Tice flat out said they told Daunte NOT to go deep the 2nd half of the Charger game.  He was trying desperately to keep the Eden Prairie HS team... ooops, I mean Defense... off the friggin field.  Add to that the fact that Moss had a concussion, and couldn't figure out which way to run.  Geez.What about the GB game... do you "just throw it up to Moss" when they have a DB & a LB jamming him at the line?  Nice call, throw it up to Moss who is being tackled on the line of scrimmage... BRILLIANT!Good Lord, I wish some people would actually watch football.

Thats another thing wrong with Minny. Their coach sucks. they get a 6 point lead and try to run the clock out instead of putting more points on the board. Are you an idiot? Hell yes you throw it up to moss if the Packers are tackling him, its called pass interferance. If you watched the game you would know he had the concussion after the gamne was basically out of reach, moron.

I guess I am an idiot... here I thought you were allowed to jam somebody for the first 5 yards. Guess that must not be, you certainly wouldn't resort to name calling if you didn't know what you were talking about... right

You stated that the Green Bay players were tackelling Moss. That is not legal. That is defensive holding. Plus if the ball is coming you are not allowed to be bumping the receiver. You are only allowed to bump a reciever in the 5 yard area and if the ball is not in the air.

 

[Mrskoal333]

With more than 2 minutes to go, they were 8 yards from a TD that would have had them within one score. The game wasn't out of reach until the INT where Moss took the play off because he already had the concussion.

You are {EDIT} MISTAKEN {/EDIT} . The ball wasnt coming to Moss and he knew it. He stayed at the line of scrimmage to keep his cover guys there with him so the field would be alot more opened up for the recievers who were going to be thrown to. Even if they would have scored they still would have been down another TD which they would have had to get another onsides kick. They had already gotten 1 onsides kick what are the chances of getting another even if they would have scored. Like i said, it was pretty much out of reach. By the way who did throw that interception anyways? Was it moss or Culpepper?

 

[quotheraven]

I hope every game from here on out is a shootout and the vikes have to throw every down. Cpep can throw and Moss can catch whien he tries and that's good enough for me(being the owner of them both).

 

[Englishteacher]

I'm not sure I'd call it racist. People often think that mistake-prone QBs are 'dumb'. The first few years Brett Favre was the QB people called him dumb all the time, and often called for him to be replace by Ty Detmer or Mark Brunell. I'm not kidding. It took a long time before people lightened up of Favre. I think it was after the 1995 season people stopped calling for his benching. Culpepper seems to be going through similiar growng pains. Benching him for Frerotte would be idiotic. Frerotte is not exactly a genuis either. He once gave himself a concussion after scoring a TD by doing this

:rotflmao:

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:rotflmao: now that's dumb, greatest insight I've seen on the board all year I wonder if the Vikes had to pad all the runways into the stadium to compensate for this injury risk :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

 

[Hinezer]

If you deal with these so called "Daunte haters" on a long term basis, you would get where the race card comes in.I frequently post on a Vikings board that has thousands of members and there are several really bad seeds in the bunch that absolutely hate Daunte. There's a group of about 15 posters, who are often called the ABC group (Anybody But Culpepper). The ringleader of the group has been banned for the message board because of his constanting baiting and personal attacks. His bit was he loved to compare Daunte's stats to that of other QBs in league that are doing better (usually Warner and Gannon...this was last year, lol). But the ones he always left out in the comparisons were McNabb and McNair because he also thought they were not good QBs at all. Tough not to play the race card there when he also said that Byron Leftwich would be the biggest bust in last year's draft. He would also aways get POed when someone compared Daunte's stats to the stats of Elway and Favre in their early careers because Daunte "shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence as those two.Another example of how the hatred (not racism at this point) is obvious. About half of these "ABCers" gave Daunte huge props early in the season because he's not turning the ball over. Every one of those started bashing Daunte again as soon as the TEAM started losing. They want him to do everything and also do the opposite of everything as well. Just chuck it up to Moss, but you better not throw INTs.The funniest part about this board and these posters are that ALL of them hated the signing of Gus because he was terrible and would never be able to be successful even with Moss. I pointed out that as soon as Gus played or Daunte struggled they would be calling for Gus to come in. They all denied that they would ever do that. Sure enough it came true. The worst part is that Daunte could be winning games for the Vikings and it wouldn't be enough for some. There is one poster who constantly reminds everyone that Gus averages 37 points (in two games, doesn't consider the Lions game where he played more than a half, which would take his average down to 31) and that that is his whole reason for wanting Gus over Daunte. Not to mention that he's admitted that he isn't a Vikings fan, just a Moss fan.Trust me, the writer is not far off by saying race is a factor. During the offseason you saw a lot of Vikings fans who wanted Jeff George back, but no one wanting Randall Cunningham back. Why's that? Cunnigham has had success outside of Minnesota, George hasn't, what's the reasoning here?

 

[IGKYA!!!]

Did you ever think that maybe Dante wasnt throwing the ball up to Moss in the right spot and Frerotte was? I saw the games that frerotte played this year and they scored at will because he went to Moss. If you give Moss the chances he can sure make a QB look good. Culpepper hasnt given him enough chances to make him look good, thus people in Mineesota want him benched. Untill he gets the ball to Moss and wins games he will be under fire in Minnesota.

 

[snowcrash411]

Calling a black QB "dumb" doesn't make you a racist, though in this case it does make you stupid.Congradulate that loser of a writer for getting some publicity for himself by throwing out the race card.

 

[bumpman]

Come on.. PLEEEAAASSEEE.. Ferrotee played a couple good games.. I'll give you that.. But the oppenents were WEAK.. If you have followed football at all for any length of time you will know that Ferrotte is a decent fill-in, but no way in HELL would I want to count on him week in and week out.Last year, everyone and thier 2nd cousins Tore Culpepper apart for trying to force it into Moss's hand and causing 23 INT's. This year he is playing smarter, trying to find a 2nd WR or even a 3rd to open up a route. If you can't see the logic behind the article, that the fault clearly lies at the feet of the defense and not Culpepper, than you are one of those that are mentioned in the article.

I never said Frerotte was any good. Just said maybe hes better than Culpepper. Any decent QB should be able to run Minnesotas high powered offense. Hell even Gannon took the raiders to a super bowl last year. Maybe it had to do with the talent around him? Plummer didnt do much in Arizona but i bet he does in Denver in the near future. Culpepper would not even be a starter in the NFL other than the fact that when he started he had Moss and Carter which anyone could throw to. Thats why people think he is any good.

This person knows nothing about the NFL. The post says it all . . .

 

[The Rook]

Speaking on behalf of Texans fans everywhere, no, it's not hard to complain about an entire defense.

Not only did you make me laugh out loud, but also made me realize I should have more specifically said it's easier to complain about a high profile QB than it is to complain about a specific defensive player (especially for a less knowledgable fan)....... and believe me, I don't claim to be a super knowledgable NFL fan, but I can take the emotion out of it and realize that the Vikings D is playing a pretty large role in their 3 week demise. At the same time, they are 6-3..... work out the kinks, finish the year strong, and most of the detractors will be kissing Daunte's _ _ _ at the end of the year.....

 

[Jobber]

Calling a black QB "dumb" doesn't make you a racist, though in this case it does make you stupid.Congradulate that loser of a writer for getting some publicity for himself by throwing out the race card.

Yeah, Reusse is a lamearse. You should hear the guy. Sounds drunk or something. I change the channel on the radio every time that clown is on.