Daunte Culpepper will start (1 Viewer)

[BustedKnuckles]

Daunte Culpepper-QB- Raiders Aug. 22 - 5:27 pm et

Daunte Culpepper will start the Raiders' third preseason game Friday night.

If he plays well, Culpepper could very well be the team's opening-day starter as well. The feeling near the team is that he'll get the nod over Josh McCown and Andrew Walter. McCown will come in second Friday, with Walter third.

Source: San Francisco Chronicle

 

[ncsulaw]

He's not being drafted in most leagues. Are Fantasy managers sleeping on this guy?

 

[BroadwayG]

He's not being drafted in most leagues. Are Fantasy managers sleeping on this guy?

Only the smart ones.

 

[SSOG]

He's not being drafted in most leagues. Are Fantasy managers sleeping on this guy?

Only the smart ones.

Agreed. What possible value could the NFL record holder for single-season combined yardage hold? Smart fantasy owners are spending their oh-so-precious 22nd round draft picks on the REAL value picks, like David Boston, whose one season as the #3 fantasy WR is way more impressive than Culpepper's 4 seasons as the #1 fantasy QB.

 

[jurb26]

He's not being drafted in most leagues. Are Fantasy managers sleeping on this guy?

Only the smart ones.

Agreed. What possible value could the NFL record holder for single-season combined yardage hold? Smart fantasy owners are spending their oh-so-precious 22nd round draft picks on the REAL value picks, like David Boston, whose one season as the #3 fantasy WR is way more impressive than Culpepper's 4 seasons as the #1 fantasy QB.

Pepper has value as a starting QB. He is nothing close to what he was when he was the #1 fantasy QB with out Moss however.

 

[j3r3m3y]

He's not being drafted in most leagues. Are Fantasy managers sleeping on this guy?

Only the smart ones.

Agreed. What possible value could the NFL record holder for single-season combined yardage hold? Smart fantasy owners are spending their oh-so-precious 22nd round draft picks on the REAL value picks, like David Boston, whose one season as the #3 fantasy WR is way more impressive than Culpepper's 4 seasons as the #1 fantasy QB.

Everyone has value but he is 2 years and serious injury removed from leading in any category other than sacks per pass attempt and clipboards held.

 

[SSOG]

He's not being drafted in most leagues. Are Fantasy managers sleeping on this guy?

Only the smart ones.

Agreed. What possible value could the NFL record holder for single-season combined yardage hold? Smart fantasy owners are spending their oh-so-precious 22nd round draft picks on the REAL value picks, like David Boston, whose one season as the #3 fantasy WR is way more impressive than Culpepper's 4 seasons as the #1 fantasy QB.

Pepper has value as a starting QB. He is nothing close to what he was when he was the #1 fantasy QB with out Moss however.

And Boston is nothing close to what he was when he was the #3 fantasy WR, but that doesn't stop everyone from labeling Boston as the best possible late-draft flier and Culpepper as a waste of roster space.Besides, Culpepper was a stud even without Randy Moss in 2004. Pro-rate the games that Moss missed and he still would have had, if I recall correctly, the second best fantasy season of the last 5 years (behind only Manning's record-setter). And this was with Nate Freaking Burleson as his starting WR and a mismatched assortment of detached body parts lining up at RB. Not saying that he's going to come close to top-3 numbers this year, I'm just saying I wouldn't exactly be shocked if he did. The precedent is definitely there.Edit for clarification: If you asked me whether I thought Jason Campbell or Daunte Culpepper was going to have the better season, I'd say Campbell without hesitating... but if you asked me who would be a bigger surprise to see crack the top 3, I'd again say Campbell without hesitating. Same thing with J.P. Losman, Alex Smith, Byron Leftwich, Steve McNair, etc. Culpepper's probably going to be much worse than any of these guys, but his potential ceiling is off the charts, and ceiling is really all I care about from my QB4.

 

[CalBear]

Culpepper still looks kind of shaky; he fumbled at least two snaps and bobbled a couple of others. To his credit, though, he threw a TD after one of those bobbles. Last week he showed some moves in the open field, running for a first down on third and long. He's definitely the best passer they have on the roster with Russell holding out.

My bet is, Culpepper starts the season as #1, and stays in that position for at least half the season even if Jamarcus signs.

My speculation is, Culpepper as Oakland's starter will be worth rostering as a backup (better than QB24).

 

[jurb26]

He's not being drafted in most leagues. Are Fantasy managers sleeping on this guy?

Only the smart ones.

Agreed. What possible value could the NFL record holder for single-season combined yardage hold? Smart fantasy owners are spending their oh-so-precious 22nd round draft picks on the REAL value picks, like David Boston, whose one season as the #3 fantasy WR is way more impressive than Culpepper's 4 seasons as the #1 fantasy QB.

Pepper has value as a starting QB. He is nothing close to what he was when he was the #1 fantasy QB with out Moss however.

And Boston is nothing close to what he was when he was the #3 fantasy WR, but that doesn't stop everyone from labeling Boston as the best possible late-draft flier and Culpepper as a waste of roster space.Besides, Culpepper was a stud even without Randy Moss in 2004. Pro-rate the games that Moss missed and he still would have had, if I recall correctly, the second best fantasy season of the last 5 years (behind only Manning's record-setter). And this was with Nate Freaking Burleson as his starting WR and a mismatched assortment of detached body parts lining up at RB. Not saying that he's going to come close to top-3 numbers this year, I'm just saying I wouldn't exactly be shocked if he did. The precedent is definitely there.

You don't recall correctly. This was proven false many times, in far too many threads that were disgustingly long and drawn out. Pepper was basically nothing w/o Moss. Search it for yourself if you want.

 

[j3r3m3y]

He's not being drafted in most leagues. Are Fantasy managers sleeping on this guy?

Only the smart ones.

Agreed. What possible value could the NFL record holder for single-season combined yardage hold? Smart fantasy owners are spending their oh-so-precious 22nd round draft picks on the REAL value picks, like David Boston, whose one season as the #3 fantasy WR is way more impressive than Culpepper's 4 seasons as the #1 fantasy QB.

Pepper has value as a starting QB. He is nothing close to what he was when he was the #1 fantasy QB with out Moss however.

And Boston is nothing close to what he was when he was the #3 fantasy WR, but that doesn't stop everyone from labeling Boston as the best possible late-draft flier and Culpepper as a waste of roster space.

Those people are in leagues who start one QB and 2-4 WR's. There is a difference.

 

[PatytonsGhost]

He's not being drafted in most leagues. Are Fantasy managers sleeping on this guy?

Only the smart ones.

Agreed. What possible value could the NFL record holder for single-season combined yardage hold? Smart fantasy owners are spending their oh-so-precious 22nd round draft picks on the REAL value picks, like David Boston, whose one season as the #3 fantasy WR is way more impressive than Culpepper's 4 seasons as the #1 fantasy QB.

Pepper has value as a starting QB. He is nothing close to what he was when he was the #1 fantasy QB with out Moss however.

Why draft him when you can pick him of the waiver wire in the early season where you actually see him perform in a real game for a whole 4quartersObviously in 2QB leagues i would like to have him as a fill in option

 

[CalBear]

Why draft him when you can pick him of the waiver wire in the early season where you actually see him perform in a real game for a whole 4quarters

Oakland plays Detroit in week 1. If Culpepper is going to be worth rostering, he's going to be starting that game and putting up numbers, so unless you're planning on finishing week 1 in last place, you won't get him on waivers (assuming he does well).

 

[Gopher State]

He's not being drafted in most leagues. Are Fantasy managers sleeping on this guy?

Only the smart ones.

Very

 

[mcd]

He's not being drafted in most leagues. Are Fantasy managers sleeping on this guy?

Only the smart ones.

Agreed. What possible value could the NFL record holder for single-season combined yardage hold? Smart fantasy owners are spending their oh-so-precious 22nd round draft picks on the REAL value picks, like David Boston, whose one season as the #3 fantasy WR is way more impressive than Culpepper's 4 seasons as the #1 fantasy QB.

Pepper has value as a starting QB. He is nothing close to what he was when he was the #1 fantasy QB with out Moss however.

Why draft him when you can pick him of the waiver wire in the early season where you actually see him perform in a real game for a whole 4quartersObviously in 2QB leagues i would like to have him as a fill in option

If Culpepper shows anything this week, he won't be available on the waiver wire in too many leagues. People were drafting him last year, knowing he was coming off an injury that was going to hamper him over the season. Another year removed, Culpper should be sufficiently healed to make a decent late round flyer. I picked him up last week at 16.12, he'll go higher than that after this weeks start. As someone else mentioned, that late in the draft he has serious upside for a #3/4 QB.

 

[SSOG]

He's not being drafted in most leagues. Are Fantasy managers sleeping on this guy?

Only the smart ones.

Agreed. What possible value could the NFL record holder for single-season combined yardage hold? Smart fantasy owners are spending their oh-so-precious 22nd round draft picks on the REAL value picks, like David Boston, whose one season as the #3 fantasy WR is way more impressive than Culpepper's 4 seasons as the #1 fantasy QB.

Pepper has value as a starting QB. He is nothing close to what he was when he was the #1 fantasy QB with out Moss however.

And Boston is nothing close to what he was when he was the #3 fantasy WR, but that doesn't stop everyone from labeling Boston as the best possible late-draft flier and Culpepper as a waste of roster space.Besides, Culpepper was a stud even without Randy Moss in 2004. Pro-rate the games that Moss missed and he still would have had, if I recall correctly, the second best fantasy season of the last 5 years (behind only Manning's record-setter). And this was with Nate Freaking Burleson as his starting WR and a mismatched assortment of detached body parts lining up at RB. Not saying that he's going to come close to top-3 numbers this year, I'm just saying I wouldn't exactly be shocked if he did. The precedent is definitely there.

You don't recall correctly. This was proven false many times. Pepper was basically nothing w/o Moss.

Proven false many times? Randy Moss got hurt in the first half of week 6 of 2004, and didn't return until week 12. Pro-rate Culpepper's numbers from the second half of week 6 on through week 11 and you know what C'Pep was on pace for without Moss? 4145/35/8, and that's COMPLETELY IGNORING THE RUSHING TOTALS. Oh yeah, that's clear proof that Pepper was basically nothing without Moss, the scrub was only on pace for 4145 yards passing, 35 TDs, and 8 INTs (and another 400 yards rushing) when Randy Moss wasn't on the field. "Basically nothing", indeed.Unless you were referring to the 2005 season. That's easy to address, too. Here's a little game for you: outside of Culpepper and Brad Johnson, guess how many pro bowls the Minnesota Vikings offensive players in 2005 have accounted for in their ENTIRE CAREERS. Stumped? The answer is one. Michael Bennett was a pro bowler in 2002. Outside of that, there wasn't a single Minnesota offensive player on the entire team who has made a pro bowl in his entire career (except for K-Rob, but he made the pro bowl as a special teamer). That's 4 RBs, 5 WRs, 4 TEs, and 5 offensive linemen, none of whom has ever been sent to honolulu. That offense was BAD, and to be honest, outside of the first two games, Culpepper wasn't as bad as everyone made him out to be. In the first two games, he was brutal, throwing 8 INTs and 0 TDs. Over the 4 games after that, he had 6 TDs, 4 INTs, 267 yards passing per game, and 25 yards rushing per game. Over a full season, that projects out to 24 TDs, 16 INTs, 4272 yards passing, and 400 yards rushing. Pretty spectacular numbers, if you ask me. The big problem is that he got injured before he had a chance to show erase that horrible start from everyone's mind.

 

[jurb26]

He's not being drafted in most leagues. Are Fantasy managers sleeping on this guy?

Only the smart ones.

Agreed. What possible value could the NFL record holder for single-season combined yardage hold? Smart fantasy owners are spending their oh-so-precious 22nd round draft picks on the REAL value picks, like David Boston, whose one season as the #3 fantasy WR is way more impressive than Culpepper's 4 seasons as the #1 fantasy QB.

Pepper has value as a starting QB. He is nothing close to what he was when he was the #1 fantasy QB with out Moss however.

And Boston is nothing close to what he was when he was the #3 fantasy WR, but that doesn't stop everyone from labeling Boston as the best possible late-draft flier and Culpepper as a waste of roster space.Besides, Culpepper was a stud even without Randy Moss in 2004. Pro-rate the games that Moss missed and he still would have had, if I recall correctly, the second best fantasy season of the last 5 years (behind only Manning's record-setter). And this was with Nate Freaking Burleson as his starting WR and a mismatched assortment of detached body parts lining up at RB. Not saying that he's going to come close to top-3 numbers this year, I'm just saying I wouldn't exactly be shocked if he did. The precedent is definitely there.

You don't recall correctly. This was proven false many times. Pepper was basically nothing w/o Moss.

Proven false many times? Randy Moss got hurt in the first half of week 6 of 2004, and didn't return until week 12. Pro-rate Culpepper's numbers from the second half of week 6 on through week 11 and you know what C'Pep was on pace for without Moss? 4145/35/8, and that's COMPLETELY IGNORING THE RUSHING TOTALS. Oh yeah, that's clear proof that Pepper was basically nothing without Moss, the scrub was only on pace for 4145 yards passing, 35 TDs, and 8 INTs (and another 400 yards rushing) when Randy Moss wasn't on the field. "Basically nothing", indeed.Unless you were referring to the 2005 season. That's easy to address, too. Here's a little game for you: outside of Culpepper and Brad Johnson, guess how many pro bowls the Minnesota Vikings offensive players in 2005 have accounted for in their ENTIRE CAREERS. Stumped? The answer is one. Michael Bennett was a pro bowler in 2002. Outside of that, there wasn't a single Minnesota offensive player on the entire team who has made a pro bowl in his entire career (except for K-Rob, but he made the pro bowl as a special teamer). That's 4 RBs, 5 WRs, 4 TEs, and 5 offensive linemen, none of whom has ever been sent to honolulu. That offense was BAD, and to be honest, outside of the first two games, Culpepper wasn't as bad as everyone made him out to be. In the first two games, he was brutal, throwing 8 INTs and 0 TDs. Over the 4 games after that, he had 6 TDs, 4 INTs, 267 yards passing per game, and 25 yards rushing per game. Over a full season, that projects out to 24 TDs, 16 INTs, 4272 yards passing, and 400 yards rushing. Pretty spectacular numbers, if you ask me. The big problem is that he got injured before he had a chance to show erase that horrible start from everyone's mind.

Yes, it was proven rather soundly too. I'm not thinking of the wrong year. It was 2004, Moss' last year in Oak. All of the excuses you just came up with were handled back then. I really don't have the energy to go through this all again. I'm sure you can search it. Or just talk to Assani Fisher(?) I think thats his name now.

 

[j3r3m3y]

Over a full season, that projects out to 24 TDs, 16 INTs, 4272 yards passing, and 400 yards rushing.

I can take a lot of players stats from 4 games and project that out for a season and come up with spectacular numbers.Or take it a step further: Westbrook scored a 39 yard TD once.Project that out over a full season and that's over 15,000 yards and 400 TD's. Wow! That's amazing!

 

[barrnone]

I grabbed him in the last round of an 18 round 12 team draft. I figure there's some upside possibility there, and if he's a total failure, I can always replace him with an undrafted starter off the waiver wire. As someone else stated, this is two years off the injury and he's also got a chip on his shoulder, wanting to prove he's not washed up. He's still not old for a starting QB and we know he has talent. The receivers aren't awful in Oakland -- Porter can be good when he wants to be, and Curry ain't bad either. Plus Jordan is a decent receiver out of the backfield. There's opportunity here, whether he takes advantage of it remains to be seen.

But he's worth a late round flier for sure.

 

[j3r3m3y]

I grabbed him in the last round of an 18 round 12 team draft. I figure there's some upside possibility there, and if he's a total failure, I can always replace him with an undrafted starter off the waiver wire. As someone else stated, this is two years off the injury and he's also got a chip on his shoulder, wanting to prove he's not washed up.

Wow, Deja Vu.Except last time I heard it it was "He is a year off the injury and he wants to prove he is not washed up".

But he's worth a late round flier for sure.

As much as many other people are, I agree.

 

[BroadwayG]

Exactly what about Culpepper's current situation prompts any sort of upside talk?

Pretty much the entire coaching staff is new.

He's not a lock to start the whole season.

The offensive personnel are...well...offensive.

He hasn't played well since 2004.

About the only thing he has going for him is that, if he starts, their defense might provide him with some short fields a couple times a game.

I never thought I'd have to actually explain this one.

 

[barrnone]

I grabbed him in the last round of an 18 round 12 team draft. I figure there's some upside possibility there, and if he's a total failure, I can always replace him with an undrafted starter off the waiver wire. As someone else stated, this is two years off the injury and he's also got a chip on his shoulder, wanting to prove he's not washed up.

Wow, Deja Vu.Except last time I heard it it was "He is a year off the injury and he wants to prove he is not washed up".

But he's worth a late round flier for sure.

As much as many other people are, I agree.

Two years off a major knee injury historically means something. Players are often not back to normal that first year, but really perform well the second year. Culpepper is no sure fire success story, but there's a chance and no risk where I picked him.

 

[jurb26]

Exactly what about Culpepper's current situation prompts any sort of upside talk?Pretty much the entire coaching staff is new.He's not a lock to start the whole season.The offensive personnel are...well...offensive.He hasn't played well since 2004.About the only thing he has going for him is that, if he starts, their defense might provide him with some short fields a couple times a game.I never thought I'd have to actually explain this one.

There is a lot of truth in what you say. Explore this however, how could the Oak offense realistically be worse than last year? On top of that, who is a huge threat to take his starting job? I'm by no means a Cpep fan, but I would still say he is easily the best QB on that team right now. If Russell signs then that will be a different story, but Russell has likely already cost himself starting time this year due to holding out and not learning the O. Lastly, this team has look lightyears better so far in the preseason than they ever did last year. I know it's just preseason, but still something has to be said for actually being able to block people and develop plays/scheme that aren't 30 years outdated.

 

[j3r3m3y]

I grabbed him in the last round of an 18 round 12 team draft. I figure there's some upside possibility there, and if he's a total failure, I can always replace him with an undrafted starter off the waiver wire. As someone else stated, this is two years off the injury and he's also got a chip on his shoulder, wanting to prove he's not washed up.

Wow, Deja Vu.Except last time I heard it it was "He is a year off the injury and he wants to prove he is not washed up".

But he's worth a late round flier for sure.

As much as many other people are, I agree.

Two years off a major knee injury historically means something. Players are often not back to normal that first year, but really perform well the second year. Culpepper is no sure fire success story, but there's a chance and no risk where I picked him.

He is bad when Moss is not around. He missed Moss by a year in Oakland. But I could just be a bitter Fins fan.

 

[BigJim®]

You don't recall correctly. This was proven false many times, in far too many threads that were disgustingly long and drawn out. Pepper was basically nothing w/o Moss.

 

[Raider Nation]

This is gonna be the rare, once-a-year instance when I have no opinion on something Raider related.

I really need to see him one more time for a half or more before I lean one way or another.

 

[Darth Cheney]

I think the theory has some merit. I wouldn't count on him to be my QB2........but if I were satisfied with my other positions and were deciding between taking another D,K, a scrub backup RB, a team's third or fourth reciever or him.....I would take C-Pepp simply because of the former talent and the upside. At any rate, if he does well this week......there won't be many leagues with him on the WW.

 

[jurb26]

You don't recall correctly. This was proven false many times, in far too many threads that were disgustingly long and drawn out. Pepper was basically nothing w/o Moss.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...pepper&st=0

I'll trust you can do the work yourself to find the other 100+ threads that were on this topic back in 2005.

 

[ncsulaw]

I think the theory has some merit. I wouldn't count on him to be my QB2........but if I were satisfied with my other positions and were deciding between taking another D,K, a scrub backup RB, a team's third or fourth reciever or him.....I would take C-Pepp simply because of the former talent and the upside. At any rate, if he does well this week......there won't be many leagues with him on the WW.

Why not take a chance on him???? If he falls on his face, drop him and take a flier on someone us. But if he does well, that pick-up will look pretty

 

[BigJim®]

You don't recall correctly. This was proven false many times, in far too many threads that were disgustingly long and drawn out. Pepper was basically nothing w/o Moss.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...pepper&st=0

I'll trust you can do the work yourself to find the other 100+ threads that were on this topic back in 2005.

I've seen the threads. Apparently you've read a handful of posts in them to characterize them so comically. Culpepper threw to a perfectly healthy Moss for 4 years yet he never touched the numbers he got when Moss had his one injury plagued/absentee season. Culpepper accounted for 5100 total yards in 2004, and Moss caught 800 of them. Yeah, 2004 was all Moss. It's undebatable. Go read 200 pages of threads to prove jurb wrong.

 

[rzrback77]

Year 2004

Moss did not play in games for weeks 7-11 (5 games), well he did have one target in week 8, but had no stats otherwise.

Culpepper averaged 234 yards passing and 1.8 TDs over that five game stretch. Projected to a full 16 game season that would be 3,744 yards passing and 29 TDs.

He actually had 4,717 yards and 39 TDs passing. So, he could have had a good year without Moss, but he had a super year with him there most of the season. Moss by the way had 767 yards and 13 TDs that season finishing 19th WR.

Was that so hard?

 

[BigJim®]

Moss did not play in games for weeks 7-11 (5 games), well he did have one target in week 8, but had no stats otherwise.Culpepper averaged 234 yards passing and 1.8 TDs over that five game stretch. Projected to a full 16 game season that would be 3,744 yards passing and 29 TDs.

Counting game 5 as w/Moss skews your numbers. Moss missed over a half of that game and Culpepper passed for 450/5. Tally that.

He actually had 4,717 yards and 39 TDs passing. So, he could have had a good year without Moss, but he had a super year with him there most of the season. Moss by the way had 767 yards and 13 TDs that season finishing 19th WR.Was that so hard?

Was what so hard? Even granting you the benefit of the stat issue above, your point seems to be Culpepper could have a great 3700/29 400/2 year with Burleson/a decripd Mrob/Kelly Campbell as his receiving corps. Implicitly he would have easily surpassed an already historic 5100 yard/41 TDS season with any talent at all at WR? Oh, I guess that wasn't hard.

 

[SaintArnold]

Culpepper+Moss+Linehan = $$$ (2003/2004)

Culpepper+Linehan = Good (2004)

Culpepper alone = Sack Machine (2005)

Culpepper + Miami - knee = disaster (2006)

Culpepper + Oakland = LOL (2007)

The guy's as good a 15th round flyer as anybody else though. The *potential* is there, but I really think the stars will have to align for him to do anything in Oakland.

 

[BigJim®]

Culpepper+Moss+Linehan = $$$ (2003)Culpepper+Linehan = Good (2004)Culpepper alone = Sack Machine (2005)Culpepper + Miami - knee = disaster (2006)Culpepper + Oakland = LOL (2007)The guy's as good a 15th round flyer as anybody else though. The *potential* is there, but I really think the stars will have to align for him to do anything in Oakland.

I'd swap "$$$"/"Good" for 2003/2004, but otherwise And just so that I'm not misunderstood, I too do not expect anything from Culpepper in 2007. Worse possible location for a QB with his needs (OL and coaching).

 

[rzrback77]

Moss did not play in games for weeks 7-11 (5 games), well he did have one target in week 8, but had no stats otherwise.Culpepper averaged 234 yards passing and 1.8 TDs over that five game stretch. Projected to a full 16 game season that would be 3,744 yards passing and 29 TDs.

Counting game 5 as w/Moss skews your numbers. Moss missed over a half of that game and Culpepper passed for 450/5. Tally that.

He actually had 4,717 yards and 39 TDs passing. So, he could have had a good year without Moss, but he had a super year with him there most of the season. Moss by the way had 767 yards and 13 TDs that season finishing 19th WR.Was that so hard?

Was what so hard? Even granting you the benefit of the stat issue above, your point seems to be Culpepper could have a great 3700/29 400/2 year with Burleson/a decripd Mrob/Kelly Campbell as his receiving corps. Implicitly he would have easily surpassed an already historic 5100 yard/41 TDS season with any talent at all at WR? Oh, I guess that wasn't hard.

I am agreeing with you. I think Culpepper offers very nice upside late. I didn't look at what point in what game Moss went out. If Cpepp threw a ton in the second half of a game after Moss was hurt, then he possibly could have projected the entire year to 4,000 and 34 TDs. My comment about was that so hard was that there were multiple "look it up" posts and it only took me about ten minutes to find the data.I get irritated when posters take the time to post a long thread without data and then say look it up. Even worse when the responders do the same and nobody wants to quote numbers. The data is here at the site, use it.

 

[rzrback77]

Moss did not play in games for weeks 7-11 (5 games), well he did have one target in week 8, but had no stats otherwise.Culpepper averaged 234 yards passing and 1.8 TDs over that five game stretch. Projected to a full 16 game season that would be 3,744 yards passing and 29 TDs.

Counting game 5 as w/Moss skews your numbers. Moss missed over a half of that game and Culpepper passed for 450/5. Tally that.

He actually had 4,717 yards and 39 TDs passing. So, he could have had a good year without Moss, but he had a super year with him there most of the season. Moss by the way had 767 yards and 13 TDs that season finishing 19th WR.Was that so hard?

Was what so hard? Even granting you the benefit of the stat issue above, your point seems to be Culpepper could have a great 3700/29 400/2 year with Burleson/a decripd Mrob/Kelly Campbell as his receiving corps. Implicitly he would have easily surpassed an already historic 5100 yard/41 TDS season with any talent at all at WR? Oh, I guess that wasn't hard.

I think the WRs at Oakland are better than he had with the Vikings and I think Culpepper offers very nice upside late. I didn't look at what point in what game Moss went out. If Cpepp threw a ton in the second half of a game after Moss was hurt, then he possibly could have projected the entire year to 4,000 and 34 TDs. My comment about was that so hard was that there were multiple "look it up" posts and it only took me about ten minutes to find the data.I get irritated when posters take the time to post a long thread without data and then say look it up. Even worse when the responders do the same and nobody wants to quote numbers. The data is here at the site, use it.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

He's not being drafted in most leagues. Are Fantasy managers sleeping on this guy?

If they don't take a flyer on the ALL TIME fantasy career QB point producer per game then, yeah you could say they are sleeping.http://blog.footballguys.com/

Career QB Fantasy Points per Game (1970-Present)

Rank First Last Years Games Comps Atts PaYds PaTD Ints FantPts PPG 1 Daunte Culpepper 1999–2006 85 1,760 2,743 21,097 137 89 1,943.0 22.86 2 Peyton Manning 1998–2006 144 3,131 4,890 37,586 275 139 2,988.2 20.75 3 Marc Bulger 2002–2006 60 1,357 2,106 16,233 95 59 1,203.5 20.06 4 Donovan McNabb 1999–2006 104 1,898 3,259 22,080 152 72 2,055.9 19.77 5 Dan Marino 1983–1999 242 4,967 8,358 61,361 420 252 4,558.8 18.84 6 Brett Favre 1991–2006 241 5,021 8,225 57,500 414 273 4,513.4 18.73 7 Steve Young 1985–1999 169 2,667 4,149 33,124 232 107 3,159.1 18.69 8 Kurt Warner 1998–2006 80 1,645 2,508 20,591 125 83 1,484.9 18.56 9 Jeff Garcia 1999–2006 99 1,811 2,973 20,385 136 73 1,821.7 18.40 10 Michael Vick 2001–2006 74 930 1,730 11,505 71 52 1,321.8 17.86 11 Trent Green 1997–2006 112 2,143 3,527 26,963 157 101 1,999.1 17.85 12 Warren Moon 1984–2000 208 3,988 6,823 49,325 291 233 3,702.9 17.80 13 Aaron Brooks 2000–2006 93 1,673 2,963 20,261 123 92 1,644.9 17.69 14 John Elway 1983–1998 234 4,123 7,250 51,475 300 226 4,086.5 17.46 15 Randall Cunningham 1985–2001 166 2,429 4,289 29,979 207 134 2,895.8 17.44 16 Tom Brady 2000–2006 96 1,896 3,064 21,564 147 78 1,652.0 17.21 17 Joe Montana 1979–1994 192 3,409 5,391 40,551 273 139 3,268.2 17.02 18 Drew Brees 2001–2006 75 1,481 2,363 16,766 106 64 1,274.0 16.99 19 Dan Fouts 1973–1987 181 3,297 5,604 43,040 254 242 3,051.6 16.86 20 Steve McNair 1995–2006 158 2,600 4,339 30,191 172 114 2,663.0 16.85 21 Jim Kelly 1986–1996 160 2,874 4,779 35,467 237 175 2,693.3 16.83 22 Drew Bledsoe 1993–2006 194 3,839 6,717 44,611 251 206 3,165.0 16.31 23 Mark Brunell 1994–2006 157 2,738 4,594 31,826 182 106 2,546.6 16.22 24 Neil Lomax 1981–1988 108 1,817 3,153 22,771 136 90 1,749.5 16.20 25 Jake Plummer 1997–2006 143 2,484 4,350 29,253 161 161 2,233.2 15.62 26 Roger Staubach 1970–1979 125 1,662 2,911 22,279 152 107 1,949.4 15.59 27 Jim Everett 1986–1997 158 2,841 4,923 34,837 203 175 2,462.5 15.59 28 Boomer Esiason 1984–1997 187 2,969 5,205 37,920 247 184 2,901.8 15.52 29 Fran Tarkenton 1970–1978 120 2,056 3,445 23,863 156 132 1,857.4 15.48 30 Brian Griese 1998–2006 81 1,481 2,350 16,564 104 80 1,248.7 15.42 31 Steve Grogan 1975–1990 149 1,879 3,593 26,886 182 208 2,293.8 15.39 32 Rich Gannon 1987–2004 158 2,533 4,206 28,743 180 104 2,424.6 15.35 33 Jon Kitna 1997–2006 108 2,039 3,433 22,467 129 126 1,644.8 15.23 34 Doug Williams 1978–1989 88 1,240 2,507 16,998 100 93 1,335.3 15.17 35 Jake Delhomme 1999–2006 70 1,151 1,934 13,965 92 63 1,055.6 15.08 36 Phil Simms 1979–1993 164 2,576 4,647 33,462 199 157 2,473.0 15.08 37 Jeff Blake 1992–2005 120 1,827 3,241 21,711 134 99 1,809.3 15.08 38 Kerry Collins 1995–2006 156 2,869 5,172 34,184 174 172 2,349.4 15.06 39 Bert Jones 1973–1982 102 1,430 2,551 18,190 124 101 1,531.4 15.01 40 Chris Miller 1987–1999 98 1,580 2,892 19,320 123 102 1,449.4 14.79 41 Vinny Testaverde 1987–2006 227 3,693 6,529 45,281 270 261 3,337.0 14.70 42 Terry Bradshaw 1970–1983 168 2,025 3,901 27,989 212 210 2,455.2 14.61 43 Jeff George 1990–2001 133 2,298 3,967 27,602 154 113 1,925.8 14.48 44 Brian Sipe 1974–1983 125 1,944 3,439 23,713 154 149 1,794.9 14.36 45 Brad Johnson 1994–2006 145 2,619 4,236 28,548 164 117 2,080.5 14.35 46 Tommy Kramer 1977–1990 129 2,012 3,651 24,777 159 158 1,826.0 14.15 47 Troy Aikman 1989–2000 165 2,898 4,715 32,942 165 141 2,321.7 14.07 48 Dave Krieg 1980–1998 213 3,105 5,311 38,147 261 199 2,956.5 13.88 49 Steve Bartkowski 1975–1986 129 1,932 3,456 24,124 156 144 1,776.1 13.77 50 Ken Anderson 1971–1986 192 2,654 4,475 32,838 197 160 2,611.9 13.60

 

[j3r3m3y]

He's not being drafted in most leagues. Are Fantasy managers sleeping on this guy?

If they don't take a flyer on the ALL TIME fantasy career QB point producer per game then, yeah you could say they are sleeping.http://blog.footballguys.com/

Career QB Fantasy Points per Game (1970-Present)

Rank First Last Years Games Comps Atts PaYds PaTD Ints FantPts PPG 1 Daunte Culpepper 1999–2006 85 1,760 2,743 21,097 137 89 1,943.0 22.86 2 Peyton Manning 1998–2006 144 3,131 4,890 37,586 275 139 2,988.2 20.75 3 Marc Bulger 2002–2006 60 1,357 2,106 16,233 95 59 1,203.5 20.06 4 Donovan McNabb 1999–2006 104 1,898 3,259 22,080 152 72 2,055.9 19.77 5 Dan Marino 1983–1999 242 4,967 8,358 61,361 420 252 4,558.8 18.84 6 Brett Favre 1991–2006 241 5,021 8,225 57,500 414 273 4,513.4 18.73 7 Steve Young 1985–1999 169 2,667 4,149 33,124 232 107 3,159.1 18.69 8 Kurt Warner 1998–2006 80 1,645 2,508 20,591 125 83 1,484.9 18.56 9 Jeff Garcia 1999–2006 99 1,811 2,973 20,385 136 73 1,821.7 18.40 10 Michael Vick 2001–2006 74 930 1,730 11,505 71 52 1,321.8 17.86 11 Trent Green 1997–2006 112 2,143 3,527 26,963 157 101 1,999.1 17.85 12 Warren Moon 1984–2000 208 3,988 6,823 49,325 291 233 3,702.9 17.80 13 Aaron Brooks 2000–2006 93 1,673 2,963 20,261 123 92 1,644.9 17.69 14 John Elway 1983–1998 234 4,123 7,250 51,475 300 226 4,086.5 17.46 15 Randall Cunningham 1985–2001 166 2,429 4,289 29,979 207 134 2,895.8 17.44 16 Tom Brady 2000–2006 96 1,896 3,064 21,564 147 78 1,652.0 17.21 17 Joe Montana 1979–1994 192 3,409 5,391 40,551 273 139 3,268.2 17.02 18 Drew Brees 2001–2006 75 1,481 2,363 16,766 106 64 1,274.0 16.99 19 Dan Fouts 1973–1987 181 3,297 5,604 43,040 254 242 3,051.6 16.86 20 Steve McNair 1995–2006 158 2,600 4,339 30,191 172 114 2,663.0 16.85 21 Jim Kelly 1986–1996 160 2,874 4,779 35,467 237 175 2,693.3 16.83 22 Drew Bledsoe 1993–2006 194 3,839 6,717 44,611 251 206 3,165.0 16.31 23 Mark Brunell 1994–2006 157 2,738 4,594 31,826 182 106 2,546.6 16.22 24 Neil Lomax 1981–1988 108 1,817 3,153 22,771 136 90 1,749.5 16.20 25 Jake Plummer 1997–2006 143 2,484 4,350 29,253 161 161 2,233.2 15.62 26 Roger Staubach 1970–1979 125 1,662 2,911 22,279 152 107 1,949.4 15.59 27 Jim Everett 1986–1997 158 2,841 4,923 34,837 203 175 2,462.5 15.59 28 Boomer Esiason 1984–1997 187 2,969 5,205 37,920 247 184 2,901.8 15.52 29 Fran Tarkenton 1970–1978 120 2,056 3,445 23,863 156 132 1,857.4 15.48 30 Brian Griese 1998–2006 81 1,481 2,350 16,564 104 80 1,248.7 15.42 31 Steve Grogan 1975–1990 149 1,879 3,593 26,886 182 208 2,293.8 15.39 32 Rich Gannon 1987–2004 158 2,533 4,206 28,743 180 104 2,424.6 15.35 33 Jon Kitna 1997–2006 108 2,039 3,433 22,467 129 126 1,644.8 15.23 34 Doug Williams 1978–1989 88 1,240 2,507 16,998 100 93 1,335.3 15.17 35 Jake Delhomme 1999–2006 70 1,151 1,934 13,965 92 63 1,055.6 15.08 36 Phil Simms 1979–1993 164 2,576 4,647 33,462 199 157 2,473.0 15.08 37 Jeff Blake 1992–2005 120 1,827 3,241 21,711 134 99 1,809.3 15.08 38 Kerry Collins 1995–2006 156 2,869 5,172 34,184 174 172 2,349.4 15.06 39 Bert Jones 1973–1982 102 1,430 2,551 18,190 124 101 1,531.4 15.01 40 Chris Miller 1987–1999 98 1,580 2,892 19,320 123 102 1,449.4 14.79 41 Vinny Testaverde 1987–2006 227 3,693 6,529 45,281 270 261 3,337.0 14.70 42 Terry Bradshaw 1970–1983 168 2,025 3,901 27,989 212 210 2,455.2 14.61 43 Jeff George 1990–2001 133 2,298 3,967 27,602 154 113 1,925.8 14.48 44 Brian Sipe 1974–1983 125 1,944 3,439 23,713 154 149 1,794.9 14.36 45 Brad Johnson 1994–2006 145 2,619 4,236 28,548 164 117 2,080.5 14.35 46 Tommy Kramer 1977–1990 129 2,012 3,651 24,777 159 158 1,826.0 14.15 47 Troy Aikman 1989–2000 165 2,898 4,715 32,942 165 141 2,321.7 14.07 48 Dave Krieg 1980–1998 213 3,105 5,311 38,147 261 199 2,956.5 13.88 49 Steve Bartkowski 1975–1986 129 1,932 3,456 24,124 156 144 1,776.1 13.77 50 Ken Anderson 1971–1986 192 2,654 4,475 32,838 197 160 2,611.9 13.60

Some of us live in the present.

 

[BlackHole]

I'll be front row BlackHole Friday and I will report what I see. Keep in mind I tend to watch the line (o and D) more then the ball, especially in pre-season. I will focus alot of attention on Pepper and how he handles the huddle, plays called in, moves his players at the line, sideline report/leadership and of course how he handles the ball. So far, I've seen way too many mis-handles with the ball (like anyone else that's watched him on TV).

Either way, I don't anticipate a big year from him. I'd like to see him hold the fort down though, and give the Raiders a shot at 6-8 wins though.

Before you argue the 6-8 wins, this offense and coaching staff are light years ahead of last years. IF it can translate to the field, and the defense plays as well as it looks like it will, 6-8 wins is very realistic IMHO.

 

[Brutis]

I see absolutely no risk with drafting Cpep in a redraft or dynasty league, you can get that guy as your #3 qb in rd17. Wheres the risk in that?

 

[BigJim®]

[i think the WRs at Oakland are better than he had with the Vikings and I think Culpepper offers very nice upside late.

I'm not sure how much stock to put in this. The bottom line is Culpepper has failed before, even throwing to a healthy Moss, when his OL has been a shambles or coaching has been weak. Given a second more to read plays and strong coaching direction, Culpepper is lightning in a bottle. Given the OL situation and unproven coaching in Oakland, even with decent WRs Culpepper is more likely

 

[Bracie Smathers]

He's not being drafted in most leagues. Are Fantasy managers sleeping on this guy?

If they don't take a flyer on the ALL TIME fantasy career QB point producer per game then, yeah you could say they are sleeping.http://blog.footballguys.com/

Career QB Fantasy Points per Game (1970-Present)

Rank First Last Years Games Comps Atts PaYds PaTD Ints FantPts PPG 1 Daunte Culpepper 1999–2006 85 1,760 2,743 21,097 137 89 1,943.0 22.86 2 Peyton Manning 1998–2006 144 3,131 4,890 37,586 275 139 2,988.2 20.75 3 Marc Bulger 2002–2006 60 1,357 2,106 16,233 95 59 1,203.5 20.06 4 Donovan McNabb 1999–2006 104 1,898 3,259 22,080 152 72 2,055.9 19.77 5 Dan Marino 1983–1999 242 4,967 8,358 61,361 420 252 4,558.8 18.84 6 Brett Favre 1991–2006 241 5,021 8,225 57,500 414 273 4,513.4 18.73 7 Steve Young 1985–1999 169 2,667 4,149 33,124 232 107 3,159.1 18.69 8 Kurt Warner 1998–2006 80 1,645 2,508 20,591 125 83 1,484.9 18.56 9 Jeff Garcia 1999–2006 99 1,811 2,973 20,385 136 73 1,821.7 18.40 10 Michael Vick 2001–2006 74 930 1,730 11,505 71 52 1,321.8 17.86 11 Trent Green 1997–2006 112 2,143 3,527 26,963 157 101 1,999.1 17.85 12 Warren Moon 1984–2000 208 3,988 6,823 49,325 291 233 3,702.9 17.80 13 Aaron Brooks 2000–2006 93 1,673 2,963 20,261 123 92 1,644.9 17.69 14 John Elway 1983–1998 234 4,123 7,250 51,475 300 226 4,086.5 17.46 15 Randall Cunningham 1985–2001 166 2,429 4,289 29,979 207 134 2,895.8 17.44 16 Tom Brady 2000–2006 96 1,896 3,064 21,564 147 78 1,652.0 17.21 17 Joe Montana 1979–1994 192 3,409 5,391 40,551 273 139 3,268.2 17.02 18 Drew Brees 2001–2006 75 1,481 2,363 16,766 106 64 1,274.0 16.99 19 Dan Fouts 1973–1987 181 3,297 5,604 43,040 254 242 3,051.6 16.86 20 Steve McNair 1995–2006 158 2,600 4,339 30,191 172 114 2,663.0 16.85 21 Jim Kelly 1986–1996 160 2,874 4,779 35,467 237 175 2,693.3 16.83 22 Drew Bledsoe 1993–2006 194 3,839 6,717 44,611 251 206 3,165.0 16.31 23 Mark Brunell 1994–2006 157 2,738 4,594 31,826 182 106 2,546.6 16.22 24 Neil Lomax 1981–1988 108 1,817 3,153 22,771 136 90 1,749.5 16.20 25 Jake Plummer 1997–2006 143 2,484 4,350 29,253 161 161 2,233.2 15.62 26 Roger Staubach 1970–1979 125 1,662 2,911 22,279 152 107 1,949.4 15.59 27 Jim Everett 1986–1997 158 2,841 4,923 34,837 203 175 2,462.5 15.59 28 Boomer Esiason 1984–1997 187 2,969 5,205 37,920 247 184 2,901.8 15.52 29 Fran Tarkenton 1970–1978 120 2,056 3,445 23,863 156 132 1,857.4 15.48 30 Brian Griese 1998–2006 81 1,481 2,350 16,564 104 80 1,248.7 15.42 31 Steve Grogan 1975–1990 149 1,879 3,593 26,886 182 208 2,293.8 15.39 32 Rich Gannon 1987–2004 158 2,533 4,206 28,743 180 104 2,424.6 15.35 33 Jon Kitna 1997–2006 108 2,039 3,433 22,467 129 126 1,644.8 15.23 34 Doug Williams 1978–1989 88 1,240 2,507 16,998 100 93 1,335.3 15.17 35 Jake Delhomme 1999–2006 70 1,151 1,934 13,965 92 63 1,055.6 15.08 36 Phil Simms 1979–1993 164 2,576 4,647 33,462 199 157 2,473.0 15.08 37 Jeff Blake 1992–2005 120 1,827 3,241 21,711 134 99 1,809.3 15.08 38 Kerry Collins 1995–2006 156 2,869 5,172 34,184 174 172 2,349.4 15.06 39 Bert Jones 1973–1982 102 1,430 2,551 18,190 124 101 1,531.4 15.01 40 Chris Miller 1987–1999 98 1,580 2,892 19,320 123 102 1,449.4 14.79 41 Vinny Testaverde 1987–2006 227 3,693 6,529 45,281 270 261 3,337.0 14.70 42 Terry Bradshaw 1970–1983 168 2,025 3,901 27,989 212 210 2,455.2 14.61 43 Jeff George 1990–2001 133 2,298 3,967 27,602 154 113 1,925.8 14.48 44 Brian Sipe 1974–1983 125 1,944 3,439 23,713 154 149 1,794.9 14.36 45 Brad Johnson 1994–2006 145 2,619 4,236 28,548 164 117 2,080.5 14.35 46 Tommy Kramer 1977–1990 129 2,012 3,651 24,777 159 158 1,826.0 14.15 47 Troy Aikman 1989–2000 165 2,898 4,715 32,942 165 141 2,321.7 14.07 48 Dave Krieg 1980–1998 213 3,105 5,311 38,147 261 199 2,956.5 13.88 49 Steve Bartkowski 1975–1986 129 1,932 3,456 24,124 156 144 1,776.1 13.77 50 Ken Anderson 1971–1986 192 2,654 4,475 32,838 197 160 2,611.9 13.60

Some of us live in the present.

Some of us are able to determine value when living in the present.

 

[SSOG]

Over a full season, that projects out to 24 TDs, 16 INTs, 4272 yards passing, and 400 yards rushing.

I can take a lot of players stats from 4 games and project that out for a season and come up with spectacular numbers.Or take it a step further:

Westbrook scored a 39 yard TD once.

Project that out over a full season and that's over 15,000 yards and 400 TD's. Wow! That's amazing!

But the thing is, Jurb is saying that it was PROVEN that Culpepper "was nothing" without Moss, so those are the only games we can look at. That's all the sample size we have to work with. In my opinion, over any stretch where a player plays at a 4200/35 pace, he cannot be called "Basically Nothing". If he plays for that pace over one game, then you can't say he was "basically nothing" over that one game. If he plays that way for 4 games, you cannot say he was "Basically nothing" for those 4 games. If he plays that way for the entire time that Randy Moss was out, you CAN NOT say that he was "basically nothing" without Randy Moss. End of discussion.

Moss did not play in games for weeks 7-11 (5 games), well he did have one target in week 8, but had no stats otherwise.

Culpepper averaged 234 yards passing and 1.8 TDs over that five game stretch. Projected to a full 16 game season that would be 3,744 yards passing and 29 TDs.

Counting game 5 as w/Moss skews your numbers. Moss missed over a half of that game and Culpepper passed for 450/5. Tally that.

Luckily for you, someone in this thread *HAS* already tallied that. Someone pro-rated his numbers from the second half of week 5 (played entirely without Moss) as well as weeks 6-11. In fact, someone has done that IN THIS VERY THREAD. Unfortunately for you, according to jurb, that someone has no idea what he's talking about because he once read a post 2 years ago that had some laughably incomplete analysis on the subject.Repeat: From the second half of week 5 (played entirely without Moss) through week 11, Daunte Culpepper played 18 quarters of football. If you pro-rate his numbers and project them over 64 quarters of football (16 weeks), he was on pace for 4145/35/8 passing. If you pro-rate Culpepper's numbers in 2004 from when Randy Moss was not on the field, he was on pace for 4145/35/8. I'm repeating myself because apparently some are of the opinion that I don't know what I'm talking about.

Some of us live in the present.

The present where a 22nd round draft pick is better spent on a backup placekicker or WR with a single top-10 season who hasn't been meaningful for... what, 3 years now? It's called a FLIER. If it doesn't pan out, you lose nothing. If it does pan out, you gain everything. Name another player who is being undrafted who is currently a starter and has *EVER* finished #1 at his own position, let alone finished #1 FOUR TIMES.

 

[LawFitz]

Over a full season, that projects out to 24 TDs, 16 INTs, 4272 yards passing, and 400 yards rushing.

I can take a lot of players stats from 4 games and project that out for a season and come up with spectacular numbers.Or take it a step further:

Westbrook scored a 39 yard TD once.

Project that out over a full season and that's over 15,000 yards and 400 TD's. Wow! That's amazing!

But the thing is, Jurb is saying that it was PROVEN that Culpepper "was nothing" without Moss, so those are the only games we can look at. That's all the sample size we have to work with. In my opinion, over any stretch where a player plays at a 4200/35 pace, he cannot be called "Basically Nothing". If he plays for that pace over one game, then you can't say he was "basically nothing" over that one game. If he plays that way for 4 games, you cannot say he was "Basically nothing" for those 4 games. If he plays that way for the entire time that Randy Moss was out, you CAN NOT say that he was "basically nothing" without Randy Moss. End of discussion.

Moss did not play in games for weeks 7-11 (5 games), well he did have one target in week 8, but had no stats otherwise.

Culpepper averaged 234 yards passing and 1.8 TDs over that five game stretch. Projected to a full 16 game season that would be 3,744 yards passing and 29 TDs.

Counting game 5 as w/Moss skews your numbers. Moss missed over a half of that game and Culpepper passed for 450/5. Tally that.

Luckily for you, someone in this thread *HAS* already tallied that. Someone pro-rated his numbers from the second half of week 5 (played entirely without Moss) as well as weeks 6-11. In fact, someone has done that IN THIS VERY THREAD. Unfortunately for you, according to jurb, that someone has no idea what he's talking about because he once read a post 2 years ago that had some laughably incomplete analysis on the subject.Repeat: From the second half of week 5 (played entirely without Moss) through week 11, Daunte Culpepper played 18 quarters of football. If you pro-rate his numbers and project them over 64 quarters of football (16 weeks), he was on pace for 4145/35/8 passing. If you pro-rate Culpepper's numbers in 2004 from when Randy Moss was not on the field, he was on pace for 4145/35/8. I'm repeating myself because apparently some are of the opinion that I don't know what I'm talking about.

Some of us live in the present.

The present where a 22nd round draft pick is better spent on a backup placekicker or WR with a single top-10 season who hasn't been meaningful for... what, 3 years now? It's called a FLIER. If it doesn't pan out, you lose nothing. If it does pan out, you gain everything. Name another player who is being undrafted who is currently a starter and has *EVER* finished #1 at his own position, let alone finished #1 FOUR TIMES.

Can you all say pwnage??? SSOG is the man. Best poster on this entire board IMO.The Raiders have looked A LOT better than anyone would have thought. Kiffin, while still having much more to prove, early on looks like the real deal. The defense looks terrific again and the offense actually looks decent. The OLine looks LIGHT YEARS ahead of where they were last preseason when first team opponents were crushing them.

It's still too early to make any conclusions about where this team is heading, but based on what I've witnessed so far, there could be a solid turn around right away in Oakland this season. Culpepper will play a big role in that. If he can return to old form, he and other Raiders fantasy players will be steals. They're being drafted as if Art Shell and Mr. Bed and Breakfast are still in town.

It's a coaches' league, people. When will you recognize that fact? If Kiff is as legit as he seems so far, there's gonna be a ton of crow to eat around here.

Culpepper as your last pick and 3rd QB. Why the heck not?

 

[massraider]

Culpepper as your last pick and 3rd QB. Why the heck not?

Can't think of a reason. Major upside. Hate him as a #2 QB, love him as a #3.This next week will be a major game for CPepp. We still haven't seen him play extensive minutes with the #1's. But he has looked very good thus far, and this is coming from a Daunte non-believer.For where he is gonna be drafted, if drafted at all, really can't see the downside.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

I'm for the first time this year considering the Raiders for value. I think I'm scared.

 

[j3r3m3y]

Some of us live in the present.

The present where a 22nd round draft pick is better spent on a backup placekicker or WR with a single top-10 season who hasn't been meaningful for... what, 3 years now? It's called a FLIER. If it doesn't pan out, you lose nothing. If it does pan out, you gain everything. Name another player who is being undrafted who is currently a starter and has *EVER* finished #1 at his own position, let alone finished #1 FOUR TIMES.

"It's a flier" is justification to take anyone here. You think that he has potential, I personally don't think he would ever make my starting line-up.Sure there is a chance he could put up decent numbers, but this could be said about anyone drafted in this slot. What do you lose? Opportunity cost. In this position you are grabbing someone that the world thinks will do nothing and you think they will. If that person for you is Daunte then by all means take him, I will take someone else. I am not saying I am right and you are wrong, I just disagree with your opinion.I don't care how many times in the past he was #1. In the present he is going undrafted in many leagues. There is a reason for this.

 

[Bull Dozier]

You will not find a bigger Culpepper basher on these boards than myself, but there is no reason not to take Culpepper as a #3 QB, unless you are seriously weak at another position and have Manning or Palmer as your #1. Otherwise, in the late rounds of any kind of deep draft you will not find anyone with as much scoring potential.

 

[BroadwayG]

You will not find a bigger Culpepper basher on these boards than myself, but there is no reason not to take Culpepper as a #3 QB, unless you are seriously weak at another position and have Manning or Palmer as your #1. Otherwise, in the late rounds of any kind of deep draft you will not find anyone with as much scoring potential.

So you're saying you're envisioning Culpepper putting up the numbers to consider starting him over Brady/Bulger/Brees/McNabb on a regular basis?

 

[BigJim®]

Kiffin, while still having much more to prove, early on looks like the real deal.

He looks like the real deal after 2 preseason games? Call me a skeptic, but being turned down by the mighty Gopher program one week earlier, and being Oakland's 2nd choice from his own USC staff, that doesn't scream success story to me. I'm pulling for him; some guys I hang out with were in Lane's high school class. While Kiffen may impact Oakland's success, I actually don't think he matters much to Culpepper's success after seeing Culpepper soar under Tice. Linehan was far more impactful to Culpepper's development in 2003/2004. Having said that, I actually think Knapp may compare favorably to Linehan; he's obviously more proven, having coordinated several probowl seasons from S.Young, Garcia and Vick.

The OLine looks LIGHT YEARS ahead of where they were last preseason when first team opponents were crushing them.

It better; last year was some of the worst OL play I've ever seen. Just utter futility and frankly almost unbearable to watch. Moderate improvement will get you nowhere with Culpepper; Culpepper needs wayyyy more protection than that or he'll come completely unglued.

 

[BigJim®]

You will not find a bigger Culpepper basher on these boards than myself, but there is no reason not to take Culpepper as a #3 QB, unless you are seriously weak at another position and have Manning or Palmer as your #1. Otherwise, in the late rounds of any kind of deep draft you will not find anyone with as much scoring potential.

Even during the stretches Viking fans were groaning about Culpepper's failures, Culpepper was uber productive from a FF standpoint and finishing as top point scorer 3 years running in my league. Obviously you need to discount significantly if you get penalized for turnovers in your league. I'd definietly take a chance on him as a #2 QB and #3 is a no-brainer. I'm very much pulling for Miami to eat crow on their asinine handling of him.