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David Garrard: Poor mans Mike Vick (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Da Guru
- Start date
Knightro
Footballguy
not a lot of Jag fans are crying about Leftwich being out. I've been a season ticket holder for 3 seasons now (sold tonight's tix at a 400% return) and the fans LOVE Garrard and Leftwich would get hammered by crowd at every possible turn.
cracKer
Shawn Culcasi
In what way?
Garrard has had 10 starts over the past 3 years not counting tonight. In one of those games, the season finale last year, he left at halftime. If I remove that game he is averaging 18.74 fantasy points per game covering his 9 starts over the last 3 years. 18.74 fantasy points per game would leave Garrard as the 6th ranked fantasy QB this year.
joffer
Footballguy
pretty much disagree with every point.
Im talking about as an NFL QB, passing wise. He is horrible. He locks onto Wilford, rarely reads through his progressions, has a passer rating this year of 62.5, and completion % of 50.7. Oh not to mention he is only passing for 119.5 YPG. Horrible.
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BeTheMatch
Footballguy
I would say the receivers on the Jags and Falcons are equally incompetent.
gman8343
What would Lemmy do?
so... you're pretty much saying he's like a poor man's Michael Vick?
Big Score
Footballguy
He's doing pretty good tonight.
Guess you haven't seen Vick run. Vick has a much stronger arm too.
Vick's salary is $1,400,000.00 this year & Garrard's is $1,000,000.00.www.nflpa.orgAs mnesvig said, I think they're just about equally incompetent, although Wilford is less sucky than any of the Falcons WR's & Wrighster seems to be at least semi capable.
Big Score
Footballguy
FYI aposulli,Da Guru was speaking out of his butt when he said Garrard's salary was only 5% of Vick's.
coolnerd
Footballguy
And pretty much all high draft choices
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Sputnikv8
Footballguy
I wonder if he is somewhat forced to lock on as the other bozo's at WR can't catch a dang ball that hits them in the hands. He has to goto the WR that is reliable.
FYI: Garrard signed a 3yr $5.5M contract extension in April, 2005. Just 4 months earlier Vick signed a 10yr $130M contract to make him the highest paid player in the national football league. Just taking guaranteed money into account: Vick = $37M, Garrard = $2M. 2/37 ~ 5.4%
Big Score
Footballguy
FYI: Falcons structured Vick's contract to enable them to move his money around and open up cap space whenever needed. They indeed exercised that option this year, along with restructuring Dunn's contract & a couple of other vets, to open up plenty of cap room to sign Abraham, Milloy, Crocker & all their rookie draft picks.Vick's salary is a hard $1,400,000.00 this year & Garrard's is a hard $1,000,000.00.
Garrard is making WAY more than just 5% of Vick's salary.
Start a team with Garrard?You're quite the businessman. Who wants a QB who fills the Georgia Dome (which was never full), is one of the most popular players in the league, is always in the top 10 in jersey sales, the most (or 2nd most) exciting player in the NFL, and probably has doubled the value of the Falcons franchise in the last 4-5 years.But yeah, get Garrard cause he's cheap. Is that you Bill Bidwell?Vick obviously shouldn't be the highest paid QB in the league based on performance, but in terms of making money for his franchise, he earns it as much as anyone in the NFL.
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corpcow
Footballguy
Exactly.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Garrard seems to have a much better command of the passing game, is mobile, and a powerful runner.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Factor in the signing bonus.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
I am comparing him to Vick, not Peyton Manning. Vick locks onto Crumpler, rarely reads through his progressions as well.Both Garrard and Vick have career passer ratings of 75.3, Garrard has been a bit more accurate at 55.5 to 53.1 Very much alike except for the hype.
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fruity pebbles
Footballguy
He looked pretty good out there to me. Could have easily had over 300 yards and a couple TDs if not for the shortcomings of his receivers.
Wadsworth
Footballguy
His game is more like McNabb's than Vick's. Fantasy wise I wouldn't get too excited about his potential. The Jags run a conservative offense and have played much better at home. They only have two more home games this season. Also the giants are way beat up and have the worst red zone D in the NFL, yet still no TDS.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Not sure that was his fault though. Wrighster dropped a very nicely thrown ball in the endzone and Taylor fumbled a short pass at the 2 yard line among others.
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Wadsworth
Footballguy
Does your league award points for "stuff that's not the player's fault"? The Jaguar WRs have been near the top of the NFL in drops for years now and Fred has 3 fumbles in the last 5 games. Fault or not, it's not uncommon with this team.
You could do worse than Garrard from a fantasy standpoint. One of my favorite things about him (for fantasy) is that he'll look to run it in inside the 10 if nothing is there in the passing progressions (which he doesn't necessarily completely read as was pointed out earlier in the thread). He was a solid start from week 12-16 last year:
Code:
| 12 ari | 12 26 115 0 0 | 6 61 1 | | 13 cle | 11 20 116 2 1 | 9 13 0 || 14 ind | 26 35 250 1 0 | 5 19 1 || 15 sfo | 21 40 216 0 0 | 5 27 1 || 16 hou | 18 31 292 1 0 | 5 40 0 |
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redman
Footballguy
That's who he reminded me of as well.
Big Score
Footballguy
No, you're absolutely right. The drops in the game were just that, legitimate drops.
Warpig
Footballguy
Exactly. Ryan_21 must own Matt Jones or Reggie Williams in his league and he's bitter because those guys couldn't catch syphillus in a Thailand whorehouse while on a bender.I wonder if he is somewhat forced to lock on as the other bozo's at WR can't catch a dang ball that hits them in the hands. He has to goto the WR that is reliable.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
No hijacking!
I think Bennett makes more money than Easy Ed did though...a rich mans Ed McCafferty
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I guess I wouldn't be factoring in a signing bonus, but still, Vick is signed more years, hence, much more $.
Big Score
Footballguy
Of course NFL contracts can be restructured at any time as they're not guaranteed & Vick is gonna make your Franchise a helluva lot more money than Garrard ever will.Track record is pretty important too. Garrard really doesn't have one as of yet.In the 4 years Vick has been the Falcons starting QB, the Falcons have reached the playoffs twice & advanced to within a game of the Superbowl one of those times.Of course, depending on who you listen to, the Falcons playoff success was in spite of Vick, while the other two years when they missed the playoffs, it was because of Vick
the hairy scotsman
Footballguy
Exactly. It's amazing how whenever any black qb comes along, people always go out of their way to find ways they are similar to:a) Micheal Vickb) Some other black qb.Garrard throws the ball with better touch, and better in general, than Vick. His arm is weaker, and he's not the same style runner, and not nearly as fast. The Jags run no designed qb runs to speak of, unlike Vick and the Falcons with the zone read. He is black, though. In this case I agree with the assessment that his style is much more comparable to McNabb. It's amazing, though, how seldom you hear that a black qb is similar to a white qb, even a black dropback passer like Leftwich.
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Kip Dynamite
Footballguy
I think the thread should be changed to "Mike Vick: Poor mans David Garrard. 
snarfsnarf
Footballguy
I've heard Leftwhich compared to Bledsoe.I think in general most black QBs are compared to other black QB's because they share the common trait of running ability. Outside of Frye what white QB's really run, and even Frye doesn't run much. I do think McNabb is a much better comparison for Garrard than Vick in terms of touch and body type.I think Garrard had an excellent game. Despite drops nice overall stats and game management. No TD's but they easily could have been there.the hairy scotsman said:
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Colin Dowling
Footballguy
Leftwich's largest issue, IMO, is an inability to move much. I don't think that NFL offenses are changing so much that mobility is a must. I think that NFL DEFENSES are now so fast and sophisticated that mobility is a must in today's game for QBs. THe exceptions are guys behind good pass-blocking lines with a ridiculously strong cerebral understanding of what's going on (Manning, Brady, maybe Palmer).
Wadsworth
Footballguy
Maybe, but Leftwich has been sacked fewer times per passing attempt than Garrard behind the same line. And that's not just this season, it's been a trend.
simmonjm
Footballguy
Dont understand why everyone is on the Garrard bandwagon. They showed an interesting stat last night that Jags WR drop the ball 23% with Garrard in and 9% with Leftwich in. Leftwich in my opinion is a far superior passer. At the start of the season the Jags WR's were actually putting up starting WR numbers and as soon as Garrard came in the production dropped. If anyone watched the Dallas game Matt Jones looked unstoppable with Leftwich at QB with Garrard not at all. I wonder if the coaches scale back the playbook at all when Garrard is in compared to Leftwich.Wadsworth said:
hawaiiankrush
Footballguy
Dont understand why everyone is on the Garrard bandwagon. They showed an interesting stat last night that Jags WR drop the ball 23% with Garrard in and 9% with Leftwich in. Leftwich in my opinion is a far superior passer. At the start of the season the Jags WR's were actually putting up starting WR numbers and as soon as Garrard came in the production dropped. If anyone watched the Dallas game Matt Jones looked unstoppable with Leftwich at QB with Garrard not at all. I wonder if the coaches scale back the playbook at all when Garrard is in compared to Leftwich.
Gotta agree here. I do think that when they get into the red zone, they don't trust him a lot to throw - only after it's 3rd and long. Of the 3 games Garrard has started, he has zero TDs in 2 of them. And as we all know, in all league scoring, TDs is the name of the game. All the yardage he gets without TDs do not amount to a lot of fantasy points.
Gotta agree here. I do think that when they get into the red zone, they don't trust him a lot to throw - only after it's 3rd and long. Of the 3 games Garrard has started, he has zero TDs in 2 of them. And as we all know, in all league scoring, TDs is the name of the game. All the yardage he gets without TDs do not amount to a lot of fantasy points.
Wadsworth
Footballguy
Gotta agree here. I do think that when they get into the red zone, they don't trust him a lot to throw - only after it's 3rd and long. Of the 3 games Garrard has started, he has zero TDs in 2 of them. And as we all know, in all league scoring, TDs is the name of the game. All the yardage he gets without TDs do not amount to a lot of fantasy points.
He has zero TDs in 3 of the 4 games he's started. He has more INTs than TDs and a QB rating under 70. Now you can blame some of that on WR drops and he has played better than his stats would suggest, but he'll have to do much better to be a legit fantasy option.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
And you heard Theismans response to that stat...BS! Those 2 Reggie Williams dropped were Garrards fault?..the 2 Jones droppes were Garrards fault? The ball going through the TEs hands in the endzone? Call me crazy but when you are a NFL WR and the ball is thrown right into your hands...I think you should be able to catch it regardless who is throwing it. Wilford has no trouble catching Garrards passes.
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Colin Dowling
Footballguy
I'm not suggesting that I think Garrard is a decidedly better option, long or short term, then Leftwich. I AM suggesting that I think a lack of mobility will hinder Leftwich's ability to be a great QB in Jacksonville or anywhere else until he figures out how to fine-tune his passing ability and decision making ability.
Frankly, I think it's a little nuts that there has been talk that Leftwich is "done" as the QB in Jacksonville. The guy may not be Manning/Brady and may never be close, but he's a lot better than many starters. Seriously, Joey Harrington and Aaron Brooks have starting gigs in the NFL...
Frankly, I think it's a little nuts that there has been talk that Leftwich is "done" as the QB in Jacksonville. The guy may not be Manning/Brady and may never be close, but he's a lot better than many starters. Seriously, Joey Harrington and Aaron Brooks have starting gigs in the NFL...
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