David Martin thread (1 Viewer)

[Chase Stuart]

Full disclosure: After seeing just about every TE in the league get taken off the board last night, I settled in for David Martin as my TE (14 team league). I then tried to convince myself that he could be a steal -- so this isn't exactly an unbiased opinion here.

1) Cam Cameron is the head coach -- a guy who has run the offense to the TE more than anyone else in the league the past three years. No, Cameron didn't make Antonio Gates, but it's hard to deny that he sure liked throwing the ball to his TE in San Diego.

2) Trent Green is the QB, a guy who passed to the TE more than anyone else in the league before Cam Cameron and Antonio Gates. Gonzo was great before Green, but he did have four top-2 finishes in five healthy seasons with Green. Green is certainly used to feeding his TE early and often.

3) Miami had only two players top 60 receptions last year, and both of them -- McMichael and Welker -- are now gone. The Dolphins top three WRs are all 5-11, while David Martin is 6-4. He's going to be the biggest target on the field for Trent Green to find.

4) Marty Booker isn't very good. Ginn shouldn't do much at WR as a rookie. We all know Chambers can't catch a cold. If McMichael was still on this team, how high would his projections go? He had 62/640 last year, and with Welker gone and Cameron/Green around, I would expect a pretty significant bump. Martin's a former TE with good hands and not much (if any) of a dropoff from McMichael in the receiving game.

So what do you think? Is Martin a possible breakout? Only one staffer has him in their top 15. I think I'm biased since I just took him out of necessity, but I see lots of upside.

 

[Man in the yellow hat]

Packer fan here, so take it with a grain of salt. Martin is the ultimate "tease" type player. He has a ton of atheltic ability and occasionally makes a play where you think he finally 'gets it'. He then follows it up by disappearing for a few weeks at at a time. On top of that, he isn't exactly the picture of health.

My opinion. Talented guy, can't stay healthy, and has never really seemed to grasp how to play TE effectively in the NFL. Bubba Franks is on the downside of his career, and Martin could not dislodge him as the Green Bay starter. Tells me everything I need to know about Martin.

 

[freshly_shorn]

Full disclosure: After seeing just about every TE in the league get taken off the board last night, I settled in for David Martin as my TE (14 team league). I then tried to convince myself that he could be a steal -- so this isn't exactly an unbiased opinion here.

1) Cam Cameron is the head coach -- a guy who has run the offense to the TE more than anyone else in the league the past three years. No, Cameron didn't make Antonio Gates, but it's hard to deny that he sure liked throwing the ball to his TE in San Diego.

2) Trent Green is the QB, a guy who passed to the TE more than anyone else in the league before Cam Cameron and Antonio Gates. Gonzo was great before Green, but he did have four top-2 finishes in five healthy seasons with Green. Green is certainly used to feeding his TE early and often.

3) Miami had only two players top 60 receptions last year, and both of them -- McMichael and Welker -- are now gone. The Dolphins top three WRs are all 5-11, while David Martin is 6-4. He's going to be the biggest target on the field for Trent Green to find.

4) Marty Booker isn't very good. Ginn shouldn't do much at WR as a rookie. We all know Chambers can't catch a cold. If McMichael was still on this team, how high would his projections go? He had 62/640 last year, and with Welker gone and Cameron/Green around, I would expect a pretty significant bump. Martin's a former TE with good hands and not much (if any) of a dropoff from McMichael in the receiving game.

So what do you think? Is Martin a possible breakout? Only one staffer has him in their top 15. I think I'm biased since I just took him out of necessity, but I see lots of upside.

I see some upside, given both Miami's and Cameron's recent willingness to incorporate the TE in the offense, and Green's relationship with Gonzo all those years. Still, I don't see Martin being any better than TE10 this year- and that's if everything breaks right for him (and you).

 

[mr. furley]

I then tried to convince myself that he could be a steal

sorry, i want to compose an opinion here but

 

[Jason Wood]

Chase, I've got something else to fuel your David Martin fire (full disclosure: I drafted him in Anarchy 1 this past week)...

When I was trying to explain why L.J. Smith is simply not very productive in the red zone (despite getting a boatload of chances), I couldn't help noticing that David Martin screened well in fantasy points per target. Obviously he had a limited workload so the data isn't super compelling, but it could explain why Cameron was so willing to let McMichael (who, like Smith leaves something to be desired on a per target basis) move on to St. Louis and seems fine with starting Martin despite his limited success to date.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...t&p=7011918

 

[swirvenirvin]

not saying much but I have him right at 14 also

 

[sho nuff]

Packer fan here, so take it with a grain of salt. Martin is the ultimate "tease" type player. He has a ton of atheltic ability and occasionally makes a play where you think he finally 'gets it'. He then follows it up by disappearing for a few weeks at at a time. On top of that, he isn't exactly the picture of health.

My opinion. Talented guy, can't stay healthy, and has never really seemed to grasp how to play TE effectively in the NFL. Bubba Franks is on the downside of his career, and Martin could not dislodge him as the Green Bay starter. Tells me everything I need to know about Martin.

Bingo for the bold.And I love all these "comparisons" to Gates and Gonzo. Yes, I know you did not really compare Martin to them which is why its in quotes. But everyone keeps bringing them up because of Green and Cameron.

Green threw it to Gonzo because Gonzo was that good and his WRs sucked hind ###.

Cameron utilized Gates because Gates was that good and his WRs were not.

Martin is just not that good. Not even close to what Trent and Cam had in Gonzo and Gates. And Booker and Chambers are not world beaters, but better than much of what Cam and Green had to work with for years.

 

[maxwell1295]

Packer fan here, so take it with a grain of salt. Martin is the ultimate "tease" type player. He has a ton of atheltic ability and occasionally makes a play where you think he finally 'gets it'. He then follows it up by disappearing for a few weeks at at a time. On top of that, he isn't exactly the picture of health.

My opinion. Talented guy, can't stay healthy, and has never really seemed to grasp how to play TE effectively in the NFL. Bubba Franks is on the downside of his career, and Martin could not dislodge him as the Green Bay starter. Tells me everything I need to know about Martin.

Bingo for the bold.And I love all these "comparisons" to Gates and Gonzo. Yes, I know you did not really compare Martin to them which is why its in quotes. But everyone keeps bringing them up because of Green and Cameron.

Green threw it to Gonzo because Gonzo was that good and his WRs sucked hind ###.

Cameron utilized Gates because Gates was that good and his WRs were not.

Martin is just not that good. Not even close to what Trent and Cam had in Gonzo and Gates. And Booker and Chambers are not world beaters, but better than much of what Cam and Green had to work with for years.

 

[BroadwayG]

I always like him when he was in GB. Nothing earth-shattering, but always seemed to be at least a better receiver than Franks. I don't think he has the talent to 'break-out,' but should see a slight increase in production. I am just not holding my breath with the Dolphins offense. I think they're in for a very long year.

 

[GoinDeep]

DAVID MARTIN GRADUATES!

 

[LawFitz]

His hands are not very good. Comparisons to Gates and Gonzo are .

I'd rather have John Madsen of the Raiders for a schneaky, desperate play.

 

[The Duff Man]

Is the fact they picked up Anderson a cause for concern here?

 

[Reaper]

Comparisons to Gates and Gonzo are .

You're missing the point NOBODY is comparing Talent - It's the offense and the role of the TE in that offense people are comparing...''I'm not saying he's Antonio Gates, but he's going to be used in that fashion,'' Dolphins general manager Randy Mueller said.On top of which, nobody expects Gates-like numbers but, if you can get #10 TE numbers from a guy you draft at the end of the draft you get value maybe he's your backup / #2 TE fill in and wins you 1 game?I drafted Martin in SSL as TE 25 in May and came to the same Hopes and conclusions after frantically looking to fill the TE 2 spot.

 

[bcr8f]

Packer fan here, so take it with a grain of salt. Martin is the ultimate "tease" type player. He has a ton of atheltic ability and occasionally makes a play where you think he finally 'gets it'. He then follows it up by disappearing for a few weeks at at a time. On top of that, he isn't exactly the picture of health.My opinion. Talented guy, can't stay healthy, and has never really seemed to grasp how to play TE effectively in the NFL. Bubba Franks is on the downside of his career, and Martin could not dislodge him as the Green Bay starter. Tells me everything I need to know about Martin.

He's a large WR converted to a TE and never really made it.

 

[freshly_shorn]

Comparisons to Gates and Gonzo are .

You're missing the point NOBODY is comparing Talent - It's the offense and the role of the TE in that offense people are comparing...''I'm not saying he's Antonio Gates, but he's going to be used in that fashion,'' Dolphins general manager Randy Mueller said.On top of which, nobody expects Gates-like numbers but, if you can get #10 TE numbers from a guy you draft at the end of the draft you get value maybe he's your backup / #2 TE fill in and wins you 1 game?I drafted Martin in SSL as TE 25 in May and came to the same Hopes and conclusions after frantically looking to fill the TE 2 spot.

 

[freshly_shorn]

Packer fan here, so take it with a grain of salt. Martin is the ultimate "tease" type player. He has a ton of atheltic ability and occasionally makes a play where you think he finally 'gets it'. He then follows it up by disappearing for a few weeks at at a time. On top of that, he isn't exactly the picture of health.

My opinion. Talented guy, can't stay healthy, and has never really seemed to grasp how to play TE effectively in the NFL. Bubba Franks is on the downside of his career, and Martin could not dislodge him as the Green Bay starter. Tells me everything I need to know about Martin.

Bingo for the bold.And I love all these "comparisons" to Gates and Gonzo. Yes, I know you did not really compare Martin to them which is why its in quotes. But everyone keeps bringing them up because of Green and Cameron.

Green threw it to Gonzo because Gonzo was that good and his WRs sucked hind ###.

Cameron utilized Gates because Gates was that good and his WRs were not.

Martin is just not that good. Not even close to what Trent and Cam had in Gonzo and Gates. And Booker and Chambers are not world beaters, but better than much of what Cam and Green had to work with for years.

I guess they didn't throw to Gates and Gonzo because of the mismatches those two create when they're on the field . They benefitted from both their talent and from systems created to take advantage of those mismatches. Martin may only benefit from a system since he clearly doesn't have that elite-level of talent. He'll have to be a red-zone target to have any worth- I don't see him getting much more than 40 receptions on the year.

 

[David Yudkin]

Chase has been pretty busy, so I'll give him that as an excuse. But some of us have been tooting the horn on Martin for months now.

 

[dapace2]

Regarding comments about Martin not being able to supplant Bubba - my recollection is that Martin's downfall was health, not ability, and this was the reason he did not ascend to #1 TE in GB.

The comparison has been made to Gonzo and Gates, not because of talent, but because of situation:

1) the coaching staff has demonstrated a desire to utilize the TE in offensive scoring (other than blocking)

2) the quarterback has demonstrated a willingness to utilize the TE

3) the WR's have demonstrated some difficulty in getting open on a regular basis and catching the ball when they do.

Given all this, I think the right comparison is Cooley.

My opinion is that Martin could finish as the #8 TE and be a steal for those who drafted him #20.

 

[Deuce'sWild]

I'd have to let Sheffler go to pick up Martin. I know Sheffler is hurt right now, but he was targetted a lot by Cutler last year. Is it worth it?