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***David Wilson Bandwagon*** (2 Viewers)

Coughlin is foolish at times. Let your first round pick have some time to develop, tough guy. I can't believe there's even talk of him not getting another shot.

 
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Some of my thoughts as a former RB in college and Wilson owner. First, high and tight is the rule and I can't say that he isn't holding the ball close to that in both situations. You want to look to see if there is any space between his body and the ball on tape. If there is, that's not good, especially going through the OL. His off hand should be covering the top of the ball through the OL not with both arms over it like some guys do on short yardage otherwise he loses all of his wiggle.

Now I have to say, I think Coughlin is totally mishandling this young kid who is (a) super talented and (b) you have no choice because he is the NYag running game this year and without his threat in that area the passing game won't carry them during the season. As he said, they need his play making ability. What I take issue with is his screaming and benching this kid after every bad play or two. When did coaches start taking guys jobs away for bad turnovers at RB. Heck if AP had Coughlin as his first coach, we may have never seen him at his best. The bottom line is that this is a mental thing for him now and everytime Coughlin goes nuts he is making the kid more nervous and worried about fumbling that he is close to becoming ruined. Encourage the kid to cover up the ball and run strip drills but screaming at him hasn't worked so far. I also think more importantly, his exaggeration of this issue has sent a clear message to opponents to go after the strip on every play. If you watch Dallas was coached to have one guy stand him up while another guy goes for the strip balmier like the end of a game you are losing. Teams know one fumble can take him off the field now and if you heard the commentators last night, they said the defense was most afraid of Wilson in the run game making big plays. If Eli can throw 3 picks in a game and just shrug it off, they should also give him some time to grow into this position. NYG is going to lose bad without him this year so I don't see what choice they have. Let him run and live with some turnovers, just like at QB or the home run hitting 1st basemen who sucks in the field.

 
Art_VanDalay said:
Now I have to say, I think Coughlin is totally mishandling this young kid who is (a) super talented and (b) you have no choice because he is the NYag running game this year and without his threat in that area the passing game won't carry them during the season. As he said, they need his play making ability. What I take issue with is his screaming and benching this kid after every bad play or two. When did coaches start taking guys jobs away for bad turnovers at RB. Heck if AP had Coughlin as his first coach, we may have never seen him at his best. The bottom line is that this is a mental thing for him now and everytime Coughlin goes nuts he is making the kid more nervous and worried about fumbling that he is close to becoming ruined. Encourage the kid to cover up the ball and run strip drills but screaming at him hasn't worked so far. I also think more importantly, his exaggeration of this issue has sent a clear message to opponents to go after the strip on every play. If you watch Dallas was coached to have one guy stand him up while another guy goes for the strip balmier like the end of a game you are losing. Teams know one fumble can take him off the field now and if you heard the commentators last night, they said the defense was most afraid of Wilson in the run game making big plays. If Eli can throw 3 picks in a game and just shrug it off, they should also give him some time to grow into this position. NYG is going to lose bad without him this year so I don't see what choice they have. Let him run and live with some turnovers, just like at QB or the home run hitting 1st basemen who sucks in the field.
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Coughlin has two rings. You?

The questioning of Coughlin is reaching laughable levels. Now were all armchair sports psychologists...

 
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Rings don't mean he is handling him right. Switzer has a ring too. Great coach? He is mishandling this young kid. Sometimes you have to change your style up.

 
Art_VanDalay said:
Some of my thoughts as a former RB in college and Wilson owner. First, high and tight is the rule and I can't say that he isn't holding the ball close to that in both situations. You want to look to see if there is any space between his body and the ball on tape. If there is, that's not good, especially going through the OL. His off hand should be covering the top of the ball through the OL not with both arms over it like some guys do on short yardage otherwise he loses all of his wiggle.

Now I have to say, I think Coughlin is totally mishandling this young kid who is (a) super talented and (b) you have no choice because he is the NYag running game this year and without his threat in that area the passing game won't carry them during the season. As he said, they need his play making ability. What I take issue with is his screaming and benching this kid after every bad play or two. When did coaches start taking guys jobs away for bad turnovers at RB. Heck if AP had Coughlin as his first coach, we may have never seen him at his best. The bottom line is that this is a mental thing for him now and everytime Coughlin goes nuts he is making the kid more nervous and worried about fumbling that he is close to becoming ruined. Encourage the kid to cover up the ball and run strip drills but screaming at him hasn't worked so far. I also think more importantly, his exaggeration of this issue has sent a clear message to opponents to go after the strip on every play. If you watch Dallas was coached to have one guy stand him up while another guy goes for the strip balmier like the end of a game you are losing. Teams know one fumble can take him off the field now and if you heard the commentators last night, they said the defense was most afraid of Wilson in the run game making big plays. If Eli can throw 3 picks in a game and just shrug it off, they should also give him some time to grow into this position. NYG is going to lose bad without him this year so I don't see what choice they have. Let him run and live with some turnovers, just like at QB or the home run hitting 1st basemen who sucks in the field.
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:goodposting:

 
Concept Coop said:
Art_VanDalay said:
Now I have to say, I think Coughlin is totally mishandling this young kid who is (a) super talented and (b) you have no choice because he is the NYag running game this year and without his threat in that area the passing game won't carry them during the season. As he said, they need his play making ability. What I take issue with is his screaming and benching this kid after every bad play or two. When did coaches start taking guys jobs away for bad turnovers at RB. Heck if AP had Coughlin as his first coach, we may have never seen him at his best. The bottom line is that this is a mental thing for him now and everytime Coughlin goes nuts he is making the kid more nervous and worried about fumbling that he is close to becoming ruined. Encourage the kid to cover up the ball and run strip drills but screaming at him hasn't worked so far. I also think more importantly, his exaggeration of this issue has sent a clear message to opponents to go after the strip on every play. If you watch Dallas was coached to have one guy stand him up while another guy goes for the strip balmier like the end of a game you are losing. Teams know one fumble can take him off the field now and if you heard the commentators last night, they said the defense was most afraid of Wilson in the run game making big plays. If Eli can throw 3 picks in a game and just shrug it off, they should also give him some time to grow into this position. NYG is going to lose bad without him this year so I don't see what choice they have. Let him run and live with some turnovers, just like at QB or the home run hitting 1st basemen who sucks in the field.
Click to expand...
Coughlin has two rings. You?

The questioning of Coughlin is reaching laughable levels. Now were all armchair sports psychologists...
Click to expand...
Coughlin may have rings, but it doesn't change the fact that his reaction is overly emotional, not remotely logical. Agree with the original poster that if Coughlin was AP's coach when he's had his fumbling problems we likely wouldn't have seen the best out of him. Coughlin managed to get Barber through his fumbling issues, he needs to work on it with Wilson. Brandon Jacobs and/or MaGahee are not the answer.

 
Art_VanDalay said:
Rings don't mean he is handling him right. Switzer has a ring too. Great coach? He is mishandling this young kid. Sometimes you have to change your style up.
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The team did better without Wilson on the field. It worked. We don't know how Coughlin is going to handle this, long-term. But I think we can stop pretending we know how best to handle a young RB with fumble/protection issues.

 
Concept Coop said:
Art_VanDalay said:
Rings don't mean he is handling him right. Switzer has a ring too. Great coach? He is mishandling this young kid. Sometimes you have to change your style up.
Click to expand...
The team did better without Wilson on the field. It worked. We don't know how Coughlin is going to handle this, long-term. But I think we can stop pretending we know how best to handle a young RB with fumble/protection issues.
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It worked? They lost and will keep losing without a running game. Scott barely made the team. This is so obvious I don't see how some people don't see how much the Gmen Need him to have their offense go this year.

 
Banger said:
Art_VanDalay said:
Rings don't mean he is handling him right. Switzer has a ring too. Great coach? He is mishandling this young kid. Sometimes you have to change your style up.
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That will never happen.
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It did happen. Coughlin changed his approach before the Giant's '07 Super Bowl win. The ol' hardass grew (or rather, showed) a heart.

It has been a fairly prominent story, to be honest.

 
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Concept Coop said:
Art_VanDalay said:
Now I have to say, I think Coughlin is totally mishandling this young kid who is (a) super talented and (b) you have no choice because he is the NYag running game this year and without his threat in that area the passing game won't carry them during the season. As he said, they need his play making ability. What I take issue with is his screaming and benching this kid after every bad play or two. When did coaches start taking guys jobs away for bad turnovers at RB. Heck if AP had Coughlin as his first coach, we may have never seen him at his best. The bottom line is that this is a mental thing for him now and everytime Coughlin goes nuts he is making the kid more nervous and worried about fumbling that he is close to becoming ruined. Encourage the kid to cover up the ball and run strip drills but screaming at him hasn't worked so far. I also think more importantly, his exaggeration of this issue has sent a clear message to opponents to go after the strip on every play. If you watch Dallas was coached to have one guy stand him up while another guy goes for the strip balmier like the end of a game you are losing. Teams know one fumble can take him off the field now and if you heard the commentators last night, they said the defense was most afraid of Wilson in the run game making big plays. If Eli can throw 3 picks in a game and just shrug it off, they should also give him some time to grow into this position. NYG is going to lose bad without him this year so I don't see what choice they have. Let him run and live with some turnovers, just like at QB or the home run hitting 1st basemen who sucks in the field.
Click to expand...
Coughlin has two rings. You?

The questioning of Coughlin is reaching laughable levels. Now were all armchair sports psychologists...
Click to expand...
I always like this response.
 
monk said:
ebsteelers said:
Banger said:
ebsteelers said:
you hear that sound?

that was the band wagon crashing last night.

the one good thing is there is no one in the backfield currently with brown being hurt that is nearly as good as him. so he will be the starter next week.. but if he fumbles next week.. this train will go completely off the tracks
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or until they bring in a Hightower/McGahee/Wells.....I would expect them to add someone this week. Wilson needs to prove himself and they just can't risk the season in blind faith that he will improve.
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I think they bring in McGahee. more of hunch then anything else
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I think McGhee would be the perfect back to mentor Wilson.

Great pass protector and that rubbed off on Knowshon in Denver
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Moreno was a good blocker before he was drafted. It has always been one of his strong points.

 
Can someone who is suggesting that Coughlin is handling this completely wrong please dig up the stat that shows correlation between turnovers and losses? Or QB hits and QB injuries

Hint: It won't help your argument - especially the turnover one.

 
DoubleG said:
Can someone who is suggesting that Coughlin is handling this completely wrong please dig up the stat that shows correlation between turnovers and losses? Or QB hits and QB injuries

Hint: It won't help your argument - especially the turnover one.
Click to expand...
Eli was responsible for more turnovers than Wilson.... just sayin'.

 
Art_VanDalay said:
It worked? They lost and will keep losing without a running game. Scott barely made the team. This is so obvious I don't see how some people don't see how much the Gmen Need him to have their offense go this year.
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They lost by less than they were down when they benched Wilson, and there was no run game with Wilson in the game.

What is so obvious?

 
Avery said:
DoubleG said:
Can someone who is suggesting that Coughlin is handling this completely wrong please dig up the stat that shows correlation between turnovers and losses? Or QB hits and QB injuries

Hint: It won't help your argument - especially the turnover one.
Click to expand...
Eli was responsible for more turnovers than Wilson.... just sayin'.
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Wilson fumbled on 25% of his carries. Eli threw an int on 14% of his pass attempts.

Eli threw for 450 yards and 4 TDs. Wilson rushed for 19 yards. On 7 attempts.

 
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Concept Coop said:
Avery said:
DoubleG said:
Can someone who is suggesting that Coughlin is handling this completely wrong please dig up the stat that shows correlation between turnovers and losses? Or QB hits and QB injuries

Hint: It won't help your argument - especially the turnover one.
Click to expand...
Eli was responsible for more turnovers than Wilson.... just sayin'.
Click to expand...
Wilson fumbled on 25% of his carries. Eli threw an int on 14% of his pass attempts.
Click to expand...
Smaller sample sizes are less statistically relevant... :shrug:

 
Avery said:
DoubleG said:
Can someone who is suggesting that Coughlin is handling this completely wrong please dig up the stat that shows correlation between turnovers and losses? Or QB hits and QB injuries

Hint: It won't help your argument - especially the turnover one.
Click to expand...
Eli was responsible for more turnovers than Wilson.... just sayin'.
Click to expand...
One guy has proven he can win Super Bowls (twice) and the other has proven nothing. It's pointless comparing to him players with proven track records.

 
Man I miss all those who is more awesome threads - Lamar Miller or David Wilson.

I don't think anyone predicted a worse start for either.

 
Avery said:
Concept Coop said:
Avery said:
Smaller sample sizes are less statistically relevant... :shrug:
Click to expand...
:lol:
Click to expand...
Not that I'm arguing for Eli being benched, but he threw interceptions on 2 of his first 7 attempts... that's a turnover at a clip of 28.5%.
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Which is fine. You can search for inconsistencies is Coughlin's behavior if it helps. I personally think it's pretty clear why Wilson is a bench-candidate, and Eli Freaking Manning isn't.

David Wilson was given the start. David Wilson was left in after his first fumble. David Wilson was left in after getting his QB hit. He was given opportunity and failed. I'm not suggesting he should be cut, of course. He has talent and will be given another shot. But his coach was reasonable in going with another option.

 
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DoubleG said:
Can someone who is suggesting that Coughlin is handling this completely wrong please dig up the stat that shows correlation between turnovers and losses? Or QB hits and QB injuries

Hint: It won't help your argument - especially the turnover one.
Click to expand...
Looked this up during the game. If you lose the turnover battle you'll statistically lose 81% of the time or 4 out of every 5 games.

 
Can we stop the Eli and Wilson comparisons please! It is comparing apples and oranges. They aren't similar in anyway excerpt playing for the same team

 
A lot of people in here assuming Coughlin is only pissed about the things we've seen him get pissed at. If these mistakes have been happening in practices as well then Coughlin has been more than patient.

 
@AdamSchefter: Giants will work out former Broncos and Ravens RB Willis McGahee on Tuesday, per source. Workout planned since Friday.

That last sentence backs up the excellent article posted earlier.

 
Can someone look up the stat on wins/losses when you have no running game or talent at the position other than one guy and rely on a backup that almost was cut? Hint: it won't help your argument.

 
Art_VanDalay said:
Can someone look up the stat on wins/losses when you have no running game or talent at the position other than one guy and rely on a backup that almost was cut? Hint: it won't help your argument.
Click to expand...
Scott went 5 for 23 and 5 for 51. Wilson won 7 for 19 and didn't catch a pass.

Running production went up and the offense got better once Wilson was benched.

 
Art_VanDalay said:
Can someone look up the stat on wins/losses when you have no running game or talent at the position other than one guy and rely on a backup that almost was cut? Hint: it won't help your argument.
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Well ok, what's the stat on the percentage of functional franchises like the Giants giving up on a 1st round RB after one lousy half?

 
The Giants know that David Wilson gives them the best chance to win if he holds on to the football. Scott, Cox, Jacobs, McGahee are serviceable but OBVIOUSLY don't have the upside that Wilson has. He'll be given every chance to redeem himself. Whether he does so or not is the real issue. I'll go out on a limb and say he's got a better chance of turning it around then he does of fumbling two times a game.

 
Concept Coop said:
Art_VanDalay said:
Can someone look up the stat on wins/losses when you have no running game or talent at the position other than one guy and rely on a backup that almost was cut? Hint: it won't help your argument.
Click to expand...
Scott went 5 for 23 and 5 for 51. Wilson won 7 for 19 and didn't catch a pass.

Running production went up and the offense got better once Wilson was benched.
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that's using a small sample size to judge.... Wilson has way more explosiveness and speed in his game then scott. Talent wise Wilson is on another level then scott, do we even need to argue that or can we all come to agreeance. It seems like haters out there want to nitpick wilson. He fumbled 7 times in 2011 so he has a history of putting it on the ground. Sometimes you have to sacrifice so you have to sacrifice a few fumbles here with the intent to get him to correct it but it was never a surprise. The funny thing to is he has 3 career fumbles in the NFL in 2 games against one team. If my numbers are right he shouldn't fumble again until NYG meet the cowboys next.

 
would you say Fred Jackson is better then Spiller... the offense looked better with FJax out there so what who cares argument is futile..

 
I say Wilson redeems himself and gets a win for little ELI. Eli will love him after he shreds some Denver d for 140...... Then all week we will be drinking Kool Aid.............. :banned:

P.s. Eli remembers being held from his ankles by peyton as a little kid and would like nothing more then for Dwilson to totally destroy his brothers team...

 
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Hey all. Wilson's backup was better the other day, therefore Wilson should be benched. I always wondered why AD wasn't benched for Gerhart and why after Flynn broke all the Packers' records he didn't take over for Rodgers.

Don't question TC, after all he has 2 rings. Everyone knows when you win a ring you're infallible. I mean, just look at Switzer, Billick, and Gruden.

 
Hybrid said:
Hey all. Wilson's backup was better the other day, therefore Wilson should be benched. I always wondered why AD wasn't benched for Gerhart and why after Flynn broke all the Packers' records he didn't take over for Rodgers.

Don't question TC, after all he has 2 rings. Everyone knows when you win a ring you're infallible. I mean, just look at Switzer, Billick, and Gruden.
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Have mercy on those straw men! ;)

 
The entire Giants team stunk. Hynoski completely whiffed on the lead block that led to the first fumble, destroying DWs confidence. If the Giants want to be special as a team, they need David Wilson which means now is the time to build him up. I am not so sure the old man will make the right choice.

 
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