What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

***David Wilson Bandwagon*** (1 Viewer)

Kree said:
davearm said:
Eminence could bring up valid point

Schematically the reason why the Giants offense is so terrible with Wilson in is there is little reason to not be aggressive with Wilson in the game.

The Giants offense involves pass plays that are typically long developing. Giants don't usually throw screens to Wilson. And Wilson is a liability in pass protection. There is no reason not to get aggressive.
The thing is, Wilson is probably no worse in pass protection than the other backs. So what you're describing as Wilson problem, is really a Giants problem.

And when Wilson is in there, defenses have to respect his homerun ability moreso than with the other guys.

Regardless of the above, what we're hearing is that the Panthers didn't blitz much at all last week -- I think I saw someone post that they blitzed on 7 plays. So defenses being aggressive maybe isn't at the root of the problem, either.
The defenses don't need to blitz, that's how abhorrent our offensive line play has been this year. Eli is getting no time as it is which, as pointed out, is a massive problem in our offensive system. The protection issue is present at every single position.

Beatty was one of the better LTs in the game per play last year, this year he's a turnstile. Snee looks ready to retire, and Boothe not much better. Pugh has been adequate, but as a RT it doesn't mean much.

To go with that, there've been some injuries there, Baas nor Snee having practiced this week, and Diehl's been in and out, not that he would help.

Wilson is a non factor until they just decide to give him the ball. Too much else to worry about with the passing game to expect much to develop BECAUSE of that, it's purely down to ball in hand output.
I feel like... eventually they're just going to 'click'. I mean sure, it's possible in 5 weeks we look back on a 1-7 Giants team and say "Wow, I guess this really was a correction year" but I doubt it. I figure eventually they'll do what they normally do and start clicking and win 5-6 games in a row out of nowhere when nobody thinks they can. It's just... what they do. Not sure why they can't just be consistent but they never have been.

 
PPR, got denied on my attempt of Moreno for Wilson, and Deangelo for Wilson. I can have him for Joique Bell though. No Reggie Bush implications on my team or his. Neither of them would be a starter for me right now, and would be depth/bye week fill in. Wilson gonna get it together and have more value than Joique going forward, as it appeared he would in preseason?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
PPR, got denied on my attempt of Moreno for Wilson, and Deangelo for Wilson. I can have him for Joique Bell though. No Reggie Bush implications on my team or his. Neither of them would be a starter for me right now, and would be depth/bye week fill in. Wilson gonna get it together and have more value than Joique going forward, as it appeared he would in preseason?
I have Joique and made that offer in week 2 but thought better of it and pulled it back. No regrets.

 
PPR, got denied on my attempt of Moreno for Wilson, and Deangelo for Wilson. I can have him for Joique Bell though. No Reggie Bush implications on my team or his. Neither of them would be a starter for me right now, and would be depth/bye week fill in. Wilson gonna get it together and have more value than Joique going forward, as it appeared he would in preseason?
I have Joique and made that offer in week 2 but thought better of it and pulled it back. No regrets.
That's a tough one imo as Bell is a flex option unless Bush gets hurt. But with how banged up Bush has been that really has to effect your choice. I think as Rocket was saying neither Wilson or Bell would be a starter for him right now? I'd probably take Wilson in that scenario... as there's still that 50/50 potential that the Giants offensive line starts clicking and we see the David Wilson this bangwagon was built around for the final stretch of the season. Where as with Bell you're really sitting around hoping for a Reggie Bush injury for him to have anything past RB2/Flex value.

 
Giants are playing a few younger O-Line players this week, from what I'm hearing. I think this is a good thing as Snee is hurt and Baas is as well. I expect a decent week from wilson

 
PPR, got denied on my attempt of Moreno for Wilson, and Deangelo for Wilson. I can have him for Joique Bell though. No Reggie Bush implications on my team or his. Neither of them would be a starter for me right now, and would be depth/bye week fill in. Wilson gonna get it together and have more value than Joique going forward, as it appeared he would in preseason?
I have Joique and made that offer in week 2 but thought better of it and pulled it back. No regrets.
That's a tough one imo as Bell is a flex option unless Bush gets hurt. But with how banged up Bush has been that really has to effect your choice. I think as Rocket was saying neither Wilson or Bell would be a starter for him right now? I'd probably take Wilson in that scenario... as there's still that 50/50 potential that the Giants offensive line starts clicking and we see the David Wilson this bangwagon was built around for the final stretch of the season. Where as with Bell you're really sitting around hoping for a Reggie Bush injury for him to have anything past RB2/Flex value.
He was a RB1 before Bush went down. Small sample size and all, but goes against your claim that he doesn't have anything past RB2/flex value with a healthy Bush. Wilson, OTOH, is currently a RB6 in standard leagues. I'll take Bell, even with the 50/50 chance ( a bit optimistic?) that the o-line gets it together and this (pass first) offense starts clicking, AND Wilson ends up being as good as advertised by his apologists.

 
Giants are playing a few younger O-Line players this week, from what I'm hearing. I think this is a good thing as Snee is hurt and Baas is as well. I expect a decent week from wilson
What is a decent week? Young linemen in Arrowhead against the KC def is hardly an ideal situation.

 
Giants are playing a few younger O-Line players this week, from what I'm hearing. I think this is a good thing as Snee is hurt and Baas is as well. I expect a decent week from wilson
What is a decent week? Young linemen in Arrowhead against the KC def is hardly an ideal situation.
Nevermind, found it. http://www.giants.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Changes-to-O-Line-continue-in-Week-4/28928132-7c77-4cb1-9727-e267a6679680

Sounds like Snee and Baas should sit this week and Diehl 'should' be back this week as well. If I had to guess the line would look something like this this week

LT - Will Beatty

LG - Kevin Boothe

C - Jim Cordle

RG - Justin Pugh

RT - David Diehl

I'm not sure how much of an upgrade this would be... but clearly Baas and Snee are seriously hurt right now. Cordle is not as good as Baas but may be better than injured Baas... and Pugh's natural position is guard so he may be an upgrade for Snee being that Snee's injured as well.

 
I have Wilson starting overJ. Bell this week. I'm looking for the elusive breakout game! Come on David!
Yeah, I'm starting him and Bell over Ridley this week. I just don't trust Ridleys work load at all with Belichick. At least I know Bell and Wilson will get work.

 
I love me some Wilson, but there's no way I'm starting him until NYG turns it around. I'll start either Brian Hartline, Ryan Broyles, or Joique Bell over him this week.

 
I'm the home team in my league this week. In this league, the home team gets to pair two players at the same position. The higher of the two scorers is put in the lineup. It's our Home Field Advantage rule. I'm pairing him with Matthews. My other option is Bradshaw and am considering him instead of Wilson with the Colts matchup this week...

 
FormerlyADog said:
Skimmed over the last 4-5 pages after not being in the thread for almost a week. Wow.

Just like Nicks can't throw it to himself, Wilson can't block for himself either. On my bench again this week. Every week it is possible he breaks a long one, but that won't mean he starts the next week for me. Need to see more. Hope he does get more carries and yards in the coming weeks. Like Coughlin said, we need him.
The Giants runblocking has not been impressive for several years now. They have been a pass-first offense. I'm not sure why people are still so high on Wilson.

Last year if memory serves me, he had 2 impressive games... which were complete blowouts of NO and Eagles. Surprise! NO was one of the worst run defenses, and Eagles were among the bottom 10 as well.

On top of that, Giants are ALWAYS plagued by injuries to their OLine. Nothing has changed.
What? No... you have no idea what you're talking about clearly.

Last season the Giants run game ranked like so:

Rushing attempts per game: 23rd overall at 25.6 per game.

Rushing YPC: 7th overall with 4.6ypc

Rushing YPG: 14th overall with 116.4ypg, coupled with being 23rd in attempts this isn't that bad.

Rushing TDs: 5th overall with 18

Runs of 20+ yards: Tied for 9th with 13.

So, this team was easily a Top 10 run blocking unit last season. If they attempted more runs per game and came closer to the top teams in the league at around 28-30 attempts per game they'd have come closer to 6-7th in YPG average on the ground. Also, ProFootballFocus had them ranked 4th in run blocking last season behind the 49ers, Patriots, and Vikings. SOOOOO similar to other people in this thread, please quit pulling things out of thin air as reasons to prove your points please.

 
FormerlyADog said:
Skimmed over the last 4-5 pages after not being in the thread for almost a week. Wow.

Just like Nicks can't throw it to himself, Wilson can't block for himself either. On my bench again this week. Every week it is possible he breaks a long one, but that won't mean he starts the next week for me. Need to see more. Hope he does get more carries and yards in the coming weeks. Like Coughlin said, we need him.
The Giants runblocking has not been impressive for several years now. They have been a pass-first offense. I'm not sure why people are still so high on Wilson.

Last year if memory serves me, he had 2 impressive games... which were complete blowouts of NO and Eagles. Surprise! NO was one of the worst run defenses, and Eagles were among the bottom 10 as well.

On top of that, Giants are ALWAYS plagued by injuries to their OLine. Nothing has changed.
:no: pass first team with a QB that likes to throw to the other team... a lot... and only 2 impressive games out of how many where he had significant carries? please go back to page 1 and re-read pages 1 - 65 before posting again.

FormerlyADog said:
Skimmed over the last 4-5 pages after not being in the thread for almost a week. Wow.

Just like Nicks can't throw it to himself, Wilson can't block for himself either. On my bench again this week. Every week it is possible he breaks a long one, but that won't mean he starts the next week for me. Need to see more. Hope he does get more carries and yards in the coming weeks. Like Coughlin said, we need him.
The Giants runblocking has not been impressive for several years now. They have been a pass-first offense. I'm not sure why people are still so high on Wilson.

Last year if memory serves me, he had 2 impressive games... which were complete blowouts of NO and Eagles. Surprise! NO was one of the worst run defenses, and Eagles were among the bottom 10 as well.

On top of that, Giants are ALWAYS plagued by injuries to their OLine. Nothing has changed.
What? No... you have no idea what you're talking about clearly.
:goodposting:

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Giants RG Chris Snee (hip) and C David Baas (knee) have been ruled out for Week 4 at Kansas City.

Although Snee and Baas have struggled this season along with the rest of the Giants' line, it's an ominous sign for Eli Manning, David Wilson, and New York's wideouts in an already difficult matchup on the road at Arrowhead.
So now we have confirmation, the line will be changed again this week. Looking forward to seeing how they slide the guys around in the starting lineup. Willing to bet my line of Beatty, Boothe, Cordle, Pugh, Diehl is correct if Diehl plays. Honestly, I disagree with Rotoworld here and think that sitting Baas and Snee is an upgrade for the team this week as it's clear neither was healthy enough to play last weekend.

 
Giants RG Chris Snee (hip) and C David Baas (knee) have been ruled out for Week 4 at Kansas City.

Although Snee and Baas have struggled this season along with the rest of the Giants' line, it's an ominous sign for Eli Manning, David Wilson, and New York's wideouts in an already difficult matchup on the road at Arrowhead.
So now we have confirmation, the line will be changed again this week. Looking forward to seeing how they slide the guys around in the starting lineup. Willing to bet my line of Beatty, Boothe, Cordle, Pugh, Diehl is correct if Diehl plays. Honestly, I disagree with Rotoworld here and think that sitting Baas and Snee is an upgrade for the team this week as it's clear neither was healthy enough to play last weekend.
I believe this is an upgrade. Coughlin is stubborn and sticks w/ veterans too long.

 
Giants RG Chris Snee (hip) and C David Baas (knee) have been ruled out for Week 4 at Kansas City.

Although Snee and Baas have struggled this season along with the rest of the Giants' line, it's an ominous sign for Eli Manning, David Wilson, and New York's wideouts in an already difficult matchup on the road at Arrowhead.
So now we have confirmation, the line will be changed again this week. Looking forward to seeing how they slide the guys around in the starting lineup. Willing to bet my line of Beatty, Boothe, Cordle, Pugh, Diehl is correct if Diehl plays. Honestly, I disagree with Rotoworld here and think that sitting Baas and Snee is an upgrade for the team this week as it's clear neither was healthy enough to play last weekend.
I believe this is an upgrade. Coughlin is stubborn and sticks w/ veterans too long.
I'm not sure that he sticks w/ them too long. But he definitely gives vets the benefit of the doubt a lot longer than most coaches. He could have seen in practice all season that say for example Cordle was practicing better than Baas and playing better in preseason as well. But he would have still given the job to Baas and made him lose it handedly before making a move. Coughlin is very much in the camp of "A Veteran has to prove he CAN'T perform anymore" rather than "The young guy has to prove he can out perform the veteran". As the later makes little difference to him if the guy he trusts more is still adequate at the position, even if the skill gap is obvious.

 
Giants RG Chris Snee (hip) and C David Baas (knee) have been ruled out for Week 4 at Kansas City.

Although Snee and Baas have struggled this season along with the rest of the Giants' line, it's an ominous sign for Eli Manning, David Wilson, and New York's wideouts in an already difficult matchup on the road at Arrowhead.
So now we have confirmation, the line will be changed again this week. Looking forward to seeing how they slide the guys around in the starting lineup. Willing to bet my line of Beatty, Boothe, Cordle, Pugh, Diehl is correct if Diehl plays. Honestly, I disagree with Rotoworld here and think that sitting Baas and Snee is an upgrade for the team this week as it's clear neither was healthy enough to play last weekend.
Diehl really needs to play. Cordle better be an upgrade because Baas has been a sieve. Giving him benefit of the doubt because of the injury, but guys have been blowing by him like he's not even there.

With Hynowhiffski also out for the year, it's a very different group of guys responsible for blocking this week. I'll be watching intently, but with Wilson on the bench. For the likes of MJD/Powell/Pierce type options, FWIW.

 
Just traded him away with Luck and Amendola and got Vick, edelman and Bjge back. So even though he will probably break out this week, I'm happy to be off the wagon.

 
It really did. And Hyno is out for the year with a broken shoulder, sorry if that wasn't clear. They signed John Connor to FB this week. It was mentioned but may have gotton lost in some of the upthread "discussion".

 
Just traded him away with Luck and Amendola and got Vick, edelman and Bjge back. So even though he will probably break out this week, I'm happy to be off the wagon.
That seems like an awful trade to me on almost every level. You must have wanted off the wagon badly. Rest of the year I'd literally rather have Luck over Vick, Amendola over Edelman and Wilson over BJGE. I feel like you lost at every turn in that trade.

Hynowhiffski
That whiff sucked bad for Wilson owners. Not sure this dude is healthy either.
Hynoski is out for the season. John Conner was signed to now be the lead blocker for him. Which won't really be an upgrade but should be on about the same level as Hynoski. Hynoski was one of the better run blocking FBs in the league. The only downside I see is if Conner isn't up to snuff yet with the pass blocking scheme yet. I wouldn't be surprised if Bear Pascoe leads the FB snaps this week until Conner gets a better understanding of the scheme. All in all, a lot of shaking up still going on with the line but I expect with actually putting 5 healthy guys on the field in front of Eli and Wilson it should be an all around upgrade instead of 3 healthy players and 2 guys who were clearly to injured to be on the field last weekend.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Giants RG Chris Snee (hip) and C David Baas (knee) have been ruled out for Week 4 at Kansas City.

Although Snee and Baas have struggled this season along with the rest of the Giants' line, it's an ominous sign for Eli Manning, David Wilson, and New York's wideouts in an already difficult matchup on the road at Arrowhead.
So now we have confirmation, the line will be changed again this week. Looking forward to seeing how they slide the guys around in the starting lineup. Willing to bet my line of Beatty, Boothe, Cordle, Pugh, Diehl is correct if Diehl plays. Honestly, I disagree with Rotoworld here and think that sitting Baas and Snee is an upgrade for the team this week as it's clear neither was healthy enough to play last weekend.
Diehl really needs to play. Cordle better be an upgrade because Baas has been a sieve. Giving him benefit of the doubt because of the injury, but guys have been blowing by him like he's not even there.

With Hynowhiffski also out for the year, it's a very different group of guys responsible for blocking this week. I'll be watching intently, but with Wilson on the bench. For the likes of MJD/Powell/Pierce type options, FWIW.
Even if Diehl is out again this week, I'm really hoping they give Pugh some time at RG in place of Snee instead of keeping him handicapped at RT where it's clear his arms are simply to small to play the position. I'd rather see them just slot James Brewer in at RT (I believe his actual position is LT) and let Pugh be a strength of the line at guard rather an a liability at tackle.

 
Just traded him away with Luck and Amendola and got Vick, edelman and Bjge back. So even though he will probably break out this week, I'm happy to be off the wagon.
That seems like an awful trade to me on almost every level. You must have wanted off the wagon badly. Rest of the year I'd literally rather have Luck over Vick, Amendola over Edelman and Wilson over BJGE. I feel like you lost at every turn in that trade.

Hynowhiffski
That whiff sucked bad for Wilson owners. Not sure this dude is healthy either.
Hynoski is out for the season. John Conner was signed to now be the lead blocker for him. Which won't really be an upgrade but should be on about the same level as Hynoski. Hynoski was one of the better run blocking FBs in the league. The only downside I see is if Conner isn't up to snuff yet with the pass blocking scheme yet. I wouldn't be surprised if Bear Pascoe leads the FB snaps this week until Conner gets a better understanding of the scheme. All in all, a lot of shaking up still going on with the line but I expect with actually putting 5 healthy guys on the field in front of Eli and Wilson it should be an all around upgrade instead of 3 healthy players and 2 guys who were clearly to injured to be on the field last weekend.
:shrug: Redraft 2qb league.

Luck is a great real life qb but it seems to me that his fantasy upside is limited. Now the TRich deal makes it look like ground and pound is their goal. I feared that when I kept luck that the offense wasn't going to be high flying like last year but without his rushing tds, he's bottom half right now. I just don't see him putting up a rush td every other week.

Wilson I believe will break out but I can't afford to wait. The points Vick gives me will make up for Wilson in the short term. Bjge is just a stop gap td vulture til I can find a more permanent solution.

Amendola is mr glass. Edelman will outscore him by year's end.

 
Giants RG Chris Snee (hip) and C David Baas (knee) have been ruled out for Week 4 at Kansas City.

Although Snee and Baas have struggled this season along with the rest of the Giants' line, it's an ominous sign for Eli Manning, David Wilson, and New York's wideouts in an already difficult matchup on the road at Arrowhead.
So now we have confirmation, the line will be changed again this week. Looking forward to seeing how they slide the guys around in the starting lineup. Willing to bet my line of Beatty, Boothe, Cordle, Pugh, Diehl is correct if Diehl plays. Honestly, I disagree with Rotoworld here and think that sitting Baas and Snee is an upgrade for the team this week as it's clear neither was healthy enough to play last weekend.
Diehl really needs to play. Cordle better be an upgrade because Baas has been a sieve. Giving him benefit of the doubt because of the injury, but guys have been blowing by him like he's not even there.

With Hynowhiffski also out for the year, it's a very different group of guys responsible for blocking this week. I'll be watching intently, but with Wilson on the bench. For the likes of MJD/Powell/Pierce type options, FWIW.
Even if Diehl is out again this week, I'm really hoping they give Pugh some time at RG in place of Snee instead of keeping him handicapped at RT where it's clear his arms are simply to small to play the position. I'd rather see them just slot James Brewer in at RT (I believe his actual position is LT) and let Pugh be a strength of the line at guard rather an a liability at tackle.
Pugh has not been the problem ... And it's certainly not clear that he can't play the position because of his arm length.

 
Giants RG Chris Snee (hip) and C David Baas (knee) have been ruled out for Week 4 at Kansas City.

Although Snee and Baas have struggled this season along with the rest of the Giants' line, it's an ominous sign for Eli Manning, David Wilson, and New York's wideouts in an already difficult matchup on the road at Arrowhead.
So now we have confirmation, the line will be changed again this week. Looking forward to seeing how they slide the guys around in the starting lineup. Willing to bet my line of Beatty, Boothe, Cordle, Pugh, Diehl is correct if Diehl plays. Honestly, I disagree with Rotoworld here and think that sitting Baas and Snee is an upgrade for the team this week as it's clear neither was healthy enough to play last weekend.
Diehl really needs to play. Cordle better be an upgrade because Baas has been a sieve. Giving him benefit of the doubt because of the injury, but guys have been blowing by him like he's not even there.

With Hynowhiffski also out for the year, it's a very different group of guys responsible for blocking this week. I'll be watching intently, but with Wilson on the bench. For the likes of MJD/Powell/Pierce type options, FWIW.
I hope Diehl plays because they are desperate. But don't forget he was awful in the preseason and people (including Myself) were calling for his head

 
Giants RG Chris Snee (hip) and C David Baas (knee) have been ruled out for Week 4 at Kansas City.

Although Snee and Baas have struggled this season along with the rest of the Giants' line, it's an ominous sign for Eli Manning, David Wilson, and New York's wideouts in an already difficult matchup on the road at Arrowhead.
So now we have confirmation, the line will be changed again this week. Looking forward to seeing how they slide the guys around in the starting lineup. Willing to bet my line of Beatty, Boothe, Cordle, Pugh, Diehl is correct if Diehl plays. Honestly, I disagree with Rotoworld here and think that sitting Baas and Snee is an upgrade for the team this week as it's clear neither was healthy enough to play last weekend.
Diehl really needs to play. Cordle better be an upgrade because Baas has been a sieve. Giving him benefit of the doubt because of the injury, but guys have been blowing by him like he's not even there.

With Hynowhiffski also out for the year, it's a very different group of guys responsible for blocking this week. I'll be watching intently, but with Wilson on the bench. For the likes of MJD/Powell/Pierce type options, FWIW.
Even if Diehl is out again this week, I'm really hoping they give Pugh some time at RG in place of Snee instead of keeping him handicapped at RT where it's clear his arms are simply to small to play the position. I'd rather see them just slot James Brewer in at RT (I believe his actual position is LT) and let Pugh be a strength of the line at guard rather an a liability at tackle.
Pugh has not been the problem ... And it's certainly not clear that he can't play the position because of his arm length.
PFF has him ranked as one of the worst OT in the NFL through 3 games. He's allowed 2 sacks, 1 hit and 15 hurries through 3 games. They have him rated as 60th overall. There's no direct proof that his arms are too small but there were a lot of comments about it when he was drafted that he was probably a little bit to small to play tackle even though he has amazing footwork he had very short arms and could probably develop into a top shelf guard but would be sup-par at best at tackle due to his size. Which is something we're seeing right now from what I can tell from watching the games.

 
Giants RG Chris Snee (hip) and C David Baas (knee) have been ruled out for Week 4 at Kansas City.

Although Snee and Baas have struggled this season along with the rest of the Giants' line, it's an ominous sign for Eli Manning, David Wilson, and New York's wideouts in an already difficult matchup on the road at Arrowhead.
So now we have confirmation, the line will be changed again this week. Looking forward to seeing how they slide the guys around in the starting lineup. Willing to bet my line of Beatty, Boothe, Cordle, Pugh, Diehl is correct if Diehl plays. Honestly, I disagree with Rotoworld here and think that sitting Baas and Snee is an upgrade for the team this week as it's clear neither was healthy enough to play last weekend.
Diehl really needs to play. Cordle better be an upgrade because Baas has been a sieve. Giving him benefit of the doubt because of the injury, but guys have been blowing by him like he's not even there.

With Hynowhiffski also out for the year, it's a very different group of guys responsible for blocking this week. I'll be watching intently, but with Wilson on the bench. For the likes of MJD/Powell/Pierce type options, FWIW.
Even if Diehl is out again this week, I'm really hoping they give Pugh some time at RG in place of Snee instead of keeping him handicapped at RT where it's clear his arms are simply to small to play the position. I'd rather see them just slot James Brewer in at RT (I believe his actual position is LT) and let Pugh be a strength of the line at guard rather an a liability at tackle.
Pugh has not been the problem ... And it's certainly not clear that he can't play the position because of his arm length.
PFF has him ranked as one of the worst OT in the NFL through 3 games. He's allowed 2 sacks, 1 hit and 15 hurries through 3 games. They have him rated as 60th overall. There's no direct proof that his arms are too small but there were a lot of comments about it when he was drafted that he was probably a little bit to small to play tackle even though he has amazing footwork he had very short arms and could probably develop into a top shelf guard but would be sup-par at best at tackle due to his size. Which is something we're seeing right now from what I can tell from watching the games.
Really everything that I had been hearing was about how bad Snee, Baas and Beatty had been.

That's good info and I am actually glad to hear it because it sounds like moving him to guard alone should make a significant difference

I was aware of the arm length concern but I have a hard time believing that 2 inches is going to make that much of a difference. I think its more the fact that he is a rookie playing out of position and they do not have a good enough supporting cast on the line to compensate for it.

 
I'm the home team in my league this week. In this league, the home team gets to pair two players at the same position. The higher of the two scorers is put in the lineup. It's our Home Field Advantage rule. I'm pairing him with Matthews. My other option is Bradshaw and am considering him instead of Wilson with the Colts matchup this week...
That rule is AWESOME!!! I wish I could talk my league into this.

 
I'm the home team in my league this week. In this league, the home team gets to pair two players at the same position. The higher of the two scorers is put in the lineup. It's our Home Field Advantage rule. I'm pairing him with Matthews. My other option is Bradshaw and am considering him instead of Wilson with the Colts matchup this week...
That rule is AWESOME!!! I wish I could talk my league into this.
So wish I was in a league like this.
 
Giants RG Chris Snee (hip) and C David Baas (knee) have been ruled out for Week 4 at Kansas City.

Although Snee and Baas have struggled this season along with the rest of the Giants' line, it's an ominous sign for Eli Manning, David Wilson, and New York's wideouts in an already difficult matchup on the road at Arrowhead.
So now we have confirmation, the line will be changed again this week. Looking forward to seeing how they slide the guys around in the starting lineup. Willing to bet my line of Beatty, Boothe, Cordle, Pugh, Diehl is correct if Diehl plays. Honestly, I disagree with Rotoworld here and think that sitting Baas and Snee is an upgrade for the team this week as it's clear neither was healthy enough to play last weekend.
Diehl really needs to play. Cordle better be an upgrade because Baas has been a sieve. Giving him benefit of the doubt because of the injury, but guys have been blowing by him like he's not even there.

With Hynowhiffski also out for the year, it's a very different group of guys responsible for blocking this week. I'll be watching intently, but with Wilson on the bench. For the likes of MJD/Powell/Pierce type options, FWIW.
Even if Diehl is out again this week, I'm really hoping they give Pugh some time at RG in place of Snee instead of keeping him handicapped at RT where it's clear his arms are simply to small to play the position. I'd rather see them just slot James Brewer in at RT (I believe his actual position is LT) and let Pugh be a strength of the line at guard rather an a liability at tackle.
Pugh has not been the problem ... And it's certainly not clear that he can't play the position because of his arm length.
PFF has him ranked as one of the worst OT in the NFL through 3 games. He's allowed 2 sacks, 1 hit and 15 hurries through 3 games. They have him rated as 60th overall. There's no direct proof that his arms are too small but there were a lot of comments about it when he was drafted that he was probably a little bit to small to play tackle even though he has amazing footwork he had very short arms and could probably develop into a top shelf guard but would be sup-par at best at tackle due to his size. Which is something we're seeing right now from what I can tell from watching the games.
Odd.

Beat writer Pat Traina wrote this:

"According to ProFootballFocus.com (subscription required), in three games, Pugh has given up just two sacks and allowed one quarterback hit. That’s not bad for a rookie who is still feeling his way around."

---------------------------------------

From what I've read and watched Pugh hasn't been bad for a rookie. Beatty is the only one that's played better and some would argue Pugh has been the best of the the Giants linemen.

I don't think he'll move to guard. I just don't think the Giants would spend a 1st round pick on a guard. Reese usually drafts a year ahead. I think Diehl is gone after this season. Snee is likely gone as well due to cap and his health. The short arms is overblown. I believe his arms measured an inch shorter than what the Giants normally look for. Coaches said it didn't seem to impact his play. It does look like Pugh needs to bulk up, but most rookies do.

What's really hurting the Giants is that they've drafted several guys in the middle rounds that haven't been developed into starters. Some have been cut and the others are current backups. The only bit of hope is the Giants have in recent years made the wrong choice for who to start. Like last year Diehl started at RT and was horrid. He got hurt and Locklear came in and played really well. This year Diehl beat out Pugh, then got hurt. Pugh's play seems to be a matter of debate. But I think he's playing better than Diehl would have.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I really did not like Pugh as a prospect. That the Giants took him seemed like something they would do that eventually works out. He may just need some seasoning and become a good player for the Giants next season after a year in strength conditioning program. Hard to expect a rookie to not make mistakes when forced to start right away.

 
Giants RG Chris Snee (hip) and C David Baas (knee) have been ruled out for Week 4 at Kansas City.

Although Snee and Baas have struggled this season along with the rest of the Giants' line, it's an ominous sign for Eli Manning, David Wilson, and New York's wideouts in an already difficult matchup on the road at Arrowhead.
So now we have confirmation, the line will be changed again this week. Looking forward to seeing how they slide the guys around in the starting lineup. Willing to bet my line of Beatty, Boothe, Cordle, Pugh, Diehl is correct if Diehl plays. Honestly, I disagree with Rotoworld here and think that sitting Baas and Snee is an upgrade for the team this week as it's clear neither was healthy enough to play last weekend.
Diehl really needs to play. Cordle better be an upgrade because Baas has been a sieve. Giving him benefit of the doubt because of the injury, but guys have been blowing by him like he's not even there.

With Hynowhiffski also out for the year, it's a very different group of guys responsible for blocking this week. I'll be watching intently, but with Wilson on the bench. For the likes of MJD/Powell/Pierce type options, FWIW.
Even if Diehl is out again this week, I'm really hoping they give Pugh some time at RG in place of Snee instead of keeping him handicapped at RT where it's clear his arms are simply to small to play the position. I'd rather see them just slot James Brewer in at RT (I believe his actual position is LT) and let Pugh be a strength of the line at guard rather an a liability at tackle.
Pugh has not been the problem ... And it's certainly not clear that he can't play the position because of his arm length.
PFF has him ranked as one of the worst OT in the NFL through 3 games. He's allowed 2 sacks, 1 hit and 15 hurries through 3 games. They have him rated as 60th overall. There's no direct proof that his arms are too small but there were a lot of comments about it when he was drafted that he was probably a little bit to small to play tackle even though he has amazing footwork he had very short arms and could probably develop into a top shelf guard but would be sup-par at best at tackle due to his size. Which is something we're seeing right now from what I can tell from watching the games.
Odd.

Beat writer Pat Traina wrote this:

"According to ProFootballFocus.com (subscription required), in three games, Pugh has given up just two sacks and allowed one quarterback hit. That’s not bad for a rookie who is still feeling his way around."

---------------------------------------

From what I've read and watched Pugh hasn't been bad for a rookie. Beatty is the only one that's played better and some would argue Pugh has been the best of the the Giants linemen.

I don't think he'll move to guard. I just don't think the Giants would spend a 1st round pick on a guard. Reese usually drafts a year ahead. I think Diehl is gone after this season. Snee is likely gone as well due to cap and his health. The short arms is overblown. I believe his arms measured an inch shorter than what the Giants normally look for. Coaches said it didn't seem to impact his play. It does look like Pugh needs to bulk up, but most rookies do.

What's really hurting the Giants is that they've drafted several guys in the middle rounds that haven't been developed into starters. Some have been cut and the others are current backups. The only bit of hope is the Giants have in recent years made the wrong choice for who to start. Like last year Diehl started at RT and was horrid. He got hurt and Locklear came in and played really well. This year Diehl beat out Pugh, then got hurt. Pugh's play seems to be a matter of debate. But I think he's playing better than Diehl would have.
Sure, for a rookie he's been pretty good. I just meant on the whole he's been bad so far. It's definitely possible they leave him at tackle for his career. In comparison to the other rookie's here's how they rank on PFF.

1.01: Eric Fischer - Tackle - Chiefs: Ranked 68th overall (of 71 ranked).

1.02: Luke Joeckel - Tackle - Jags: Ranked 46th overall

1.04: Lane Johnson - Tackle - Eagles: Ranked 60th overall

1.11: D.J. Fluker - Tackle - Chargers: Ranked 43rd overall

1.19: Justin Pugh - Tackle - Giants: Ranked 61st overall

So, sure... when you look at the other first round picks in terms of tackles his performance is par for the course with the rest of them. Doesn't mean he's playing good in NFL terms, he's just good for a rookie. Not sure how much weight that holds this season though.

 
On the surface it would seem that week 5 against the Eagles would be the opportune time for the breakout given how stout KC's defense has been this year but KC can be offensively challenged so Wilson should get many more attempts...

 
wudaben said:
On the surface it would seem that week 5 against the Eagles would be the opportune time for the breakout given how stout KC's defense has been this year but KC can be offensively challenged so Wilson should get many more attempts...
I made this analysis like 4 pages back after Week 2. I felt like you could probably wait until after Week 4 and buy him at the lowest point between 4-5 and then have him blow up after that for the stretch of bottom 3rd rush defenses that he hits. Although after Philly torching KC last week, I'm slightly more optimistic for Wilson this week. They are going to HAVE to run the ball to keep the defense honest. If they try and use the gameplan they've been using the past 3 weeks, 7 sacks will look like a good day for them. Justin Houston will finish this game with like 5 sacks himself if they try to just go pass pass pass every drive.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
diehl is active
Pretty sure he's on the bench though. He's 'active' just incase someone gets hurt because Baas and Snee are out. He's probably only like 85% or so. So James Brewer will be at RG for Snee and Jim Cordle will start at C and Pugh I'm assuming will still start at RT.

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top