***David Wilson Bandwagon*** (1 Viewer)

[Leonidas]

Clearly Andre Brown was the goal line back. And I haven't seen anybody make a case why that won't change.

However, this also indicates to me that Andre needs to be the goal line back to score.

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Depends on what "goal line back" means to people.

Brown had 12 rushes from the opponents 5 yard line to their goal line, and so did did Bradshaw.

Wilson had 3.

Brown just converted more into touchdowns.

Wilson and Bradshaw had higher ypc than Brown. Maybe ALL his were from the 1 or 2 yard line? Had 10 yards on those 12 carries.

That's a good point about Bradshaw. I neglected his numbers since he is gone, but they are very much part of the discussion when dissecting what was done last year.

I think Brown's goal line carries equal-lying Bradshaw's needs context...Brown had the same number of goal line carries as Bradshaw despite the fact that Bradshaw had 221 carries (14 games played) while Brown had only 73 carries (10 games played).

BUT now that Wilson is more-or-less looking to perhaps take over Bradshaw's role...perhaps Wilson will get just as many goal line carries as Brown, in addition to what many figure to be many more touches overall.

 

[netnalp]

Clearly Andre Brown was the goal line back. And I haven't seen anybody make a case why that won't change.

However, this also indicates to me that Andre needs to be the goal line back to score.

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Depends on what "goal line back" means to people.

Brown had 12 rushes from the opponents 5 yard line to their goal line, and so did did Bradshaw.

Wilson had 3.

Brown just converted more into touchdowns.

Wilson and Bradshaw had higher ypc than Brown. Maybe ALL his were from the 1 or 2 yard line? Had 10 yards on those 12 carries.

That's a good point about Bradshaw. I neglected his numbers since he is gone, but they are very much part of the discussion when dissecting what was done last year.

I think Brown's goal line carries equal-lying Bradshaw's needs context...Brown had the same number of goal line carries as Bradshaw despite the fact that Bradshaw had 221 carries (14 games played) while Brown had only 73 carries (10 games played).

BUT now that Wilson is more-or-less looking to perhaps take over Bradshaw's role...perhaps Wilson will get just as many goal line carries as Brown, in addition to what many figure to be many more touches overall.

The assumption will be that Brown is the goalline RB. But I still think it's too early to conclude that Brown has that role locked up. It's not like Brown has a large body of work to support that he has it locked up. It's probably because he's the bigger RB that people assume Brown is the goalline RB. It's not always the case. Bradshaw ended better at it than Jacobs.

 

[RBM]

Sometimes those bigger backs struggle at the goal line because they are a nice big target and are easy to find. Always kills me when people just assume a bigger back is better in close.

 

[werdnoynek]

Sometimes those bigger backs struggle at the goal line because they are a nice big target and are easy to find. Always kills me when people just assume a bigger back is better in close.

Agreed, especially when the bigger back isn't even a "big back".

 

[Kenny Powers]

It makes sense if Brown is the GL back, as in, if its 1st or 2nd&Goal from the 2 yard line but him in there. If theyre at the 5 and Wilson is in the backfield, the D has a lot more to think about. Who know how Coughlin or the NYG people will play that though.

 

[Khy]

Clearly Andre Brown was the goal line back. And I haven't seen anybody make a case why that won't change.

However, this also indicates to me that Andre needs to be the goal line back to score.

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Depends on what "goal line back" means to people.

Brown had 12 rushes from the opponents 5 yard line to their goal line, and so did did Bradshaw.

Wilson had 3.

Brown just converted more into touchdowns.

Wilson and Bradshaw had higher ypc than Brown. Maybe ALL his were from the 1 or 2 yard line? Had 10 yards on those 12 carries.

That's a good point about Bradshaw. I neglected his numbers since he is gone, but they are very much part of the discussion when dissecting what was done last year.

I think Brown's goal line carries equal-lying Bradshaw's needs context...Brown had the same number of goal line carries as Bradshaw despite the fact that Bradshaw had 221 carries (14 games played) while Brown had only 73 carries (10 games played).

BUT now that Wilson is more-or-less looking to perhaps take over Bradshaw's role...perhaps Wilson will get just as many goal line carries as Brown, in addition to what many figure to be many more touches overall.

This actually is an incredibly good point. As a lot of people are kind of assuming Brown will be the goal line back based on his 8 short yardage TDs. All 8 of his touchdowns came from 2 yards out or less. Where as Wilson's were 40, 6, 52, 14, 15 (Rec). But it is correct we can't just ignore Bradshaw's touchdowns. If we assume that Wilson takes on the 'lead back role' and puts up 250+ touches Bradshaw also put up TDs of 10, 4, 1, 1, 13, 1. So you would have to assume that on the Giants, 'goal line back' really doesn't mean that much. As there's a valid shot that Wilson would get plenty of goal-line touches. Plus like Powers stated above... Wilson in the backfield makes it probably 10x harder on the defense to figure out what they're doing on a 3rd and Goal from the 2 than Brown does. Which is very very relevant to the discussion and something I actually don't recall seeing in the first 25 pages of this thread.

So

 

[Yenrub]

[SIZE=10.5pt]“I’m sure,” Coughlin said Sunday when asked whether Wilson and Brown will share carries. “Sometimes we need three [backs]. We’ve had three around here before.[/SIZE]

http://stream.wsj.com/story/latest-headlines/SS-2-63399/SS-2-288521/

 

[ShaHBucks]

It makes sense if Brown is the GL back, as in, if its 1st or 2nd&Goal from the 2 yard line but him in there. If theyre at the 5 and Wilson is in the backfield, the D has a lot more to think about. Who know how Coughlin or the NYG people will play that though.

What makes you say this?

 

[TheFanatic]

Clearly Andre Brown was the goal line back. And I haven't seen anybody make a case why that won't change.

However, this also indicates to me that Andre needs to be the goal line back to score.

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Depends on what "goal line back" means to people.

Brown had 12 rushes from the opponents 5 yard line to their goal line, and so did did Bradshaw.

Wilson had 3.

Brown just converted more into touchdowns.

Wilson and Bradshaw had higher ypc than Brown. Maybe ALL his were from the 1 or 2 yard line? Had 10 yards on those 12 carries.

That's a good point about Bradshaw. I neglected his numbers since he is gone, but they are very much part of the discussion when dissecting what was done last year.

I think Brown's goal line carries equal-lying Bradshaw's needs context...Brown had the same number of goal line carries as Bradshaw despite the fact that Bradshaw had 221 carries (14 games played) while Brown had only 73 carries (10 games played).

BUT now that Wilson is more-or-less looking to perhaps take over Bradshaw's role...perhaps Wilson will get just as many goal line carries as Brown, in addition to what many figure to be many more touches overall.

No. Can't be. Brown will be the goal line back no matter what. He was that guy last year and so he will be again this year. Wait, what? Bradshaw had some goal line carries? That's unpossible

 

[Khy]

It makes sense if Brown is the GL back, as in, if its 1st or 2nd&Goal from the 2 yard line but him in there. If theyre at the 5 and Wilson is in the backfield, the D has a lot more to think about. Who know how Coughlin or the NYG people will play that though.

What makes you say this?

It's kind of just a common sense thing on how the game works. David Wilson is a much more dynamic back than Brown, even though you keep trying to completely ignore that fact. Brown in the backfield screams draw. Wilson in the backfield screams nothing. The whole playbook is at their disposal. It's the same concept as say the 09' Ravens. McGahee in the backfield? Hmm probably a draw, Rice in the backfield? Crap... cover everything who knows what they're going to do. I'm also saying that as the 09 Ravens rushing is kind of how I see the 2013 Giants backfield.

 

[Concept Coop]

It makes sense if Brown is the GL back, as in, if its 1st or 2nd&Goal from the 2 yard line but him in there. If theyre at the 5 and Wilson is in the backfield, the D has a lot more to think about. Who know how Coughlin or the NYG people will play that though.

What makes you say this?

It's kind of just a common sense thing on how the game works. David Wilson is a much more dynamic back than Brown, even though you keep trying to completely ignore that fact. Brown in the backfield screams draw. Wilson in the backfield screams nothing. The whole playbook is at their disposal. It's the same concept as say the 09' Ravens. McGahee in the backfield? Hmm probably a draw, Rice in the backfield? Crap... cover everything who knows what they're going to do. I'm also saying that as the 09 Ravens rushing is kind of how I see the 2013 Giants backfield.

Brown has been a much better weapon out of the backfield, and better in protection, to this point. Wilson needs to show that he improved in these situations.

I agree that Wilson is the more dynamic back. But right now, I think defenses are thinking "blitz" when they see Wilson in the backfield on passing downs. Brown was the 3rd down back over Bradshaw down the stretch, and NYG loved Bradshaw in that role.

If people are assuming Brown is the GL back due to size, they are also assuming Wilson is the 3rd down back due to speed. Neither is more or less rational than the other, in my opinion. I personally think Brown is the 3rd down/GL/COP back, with Wilson getting 60% of the early down work.

 

[JohnnyU]

It makes sense if Brown is the GL back, as in, if its 1st or 2nd&Goal from the 2 yard line but him in there. If theyre at the 5 and Wilson is in the backfield, the D has a lot more to think about. Who know how Coughlin or the NYG people will play that though.

What makes you say this?

It's kind of just a common sense thing on how the game works. David Wilson is a much more dynamic back than Brown, even though you keep trying to completely ignore that fact. Brown in the backfield screams draw. Wilson in the backfield screams nothing. The whole playbook is at their disposal. It's the same concept as say the 09' Ravens. McGahee in the backfield? Hmm probably a draw, Rice in the backfield? Crap... cover everything who knows what they're going to do. I'm also saying that as the 09 Ravens rushing is kind of how I see the 2013 Giants backfield.

Brown has been a much better weapon out of the backfield, and better in protection, to this point. Wilson needs to show that he improved in these situation.

I agree that Wilson is the more dynamic back. But right now, I think defenses are thinking "blitz" when they see Wilson in the backfield on passing downs. Brown was the 3rd down back over Bradshaw down the stretch, and NYG loved Bradshaw in that role.

FYI, Brown sucks in pass protection.

 

[Concept Coop]

FYI, Brown sucks in pass protection.

What do you base this on? They seemed to like him in passing situations last year.

Not that you're wrong, but the sample size is small, and the fact that they played him over Bradshaw - one of the better blocking backs in the league - makes me question that.

 

[Khy]

FYI, Brown sucks in pass protection.

What do you base this on? They seemed to like him in passing situations last year.

Not that you're wrong, but the sample size is small, and the fact that they played him over Bradshaw - one of the better blocking backs in the league - makes me question that.

This is just one source as I'm to lazy to look for more... but this is directly from the mouth of his coach saying he saw reduction in playing time due to pass protection concerns. You don't need much more of a source than that. And they never played him over Bradshaw, I'm not sure where you're getting this... when Bradshaw was healthy he was on the field for like 80% of the snaps.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000077573/article/giants-unsure-about-andre-browns-pass-protection

 

[JohnnyU]

FYI, Brown sucks in pass protection.

What do you base this on? They seemed to like him in passing situations last year.

Not that you're wrong, but the sample size is small, and the fact that they played him over Bradshaw - one of the better blocking backs in the league - makes me question that.

I don't think the difference between Brown's pass blocking and Wilson's pass blocking comes anywhere close to making up the difference in talent and big play ability.

 

[JohnnyU]

FYI, Brown sucks in pass protection.

What do you base this on? They seemed to like him in passing situations last year.

Not that you're wrong, but the sample size is small, and the fact that they played him over Bradshaw - one of the better blocking backs in the league - makes me question that.

This is just one source as I'm to lazy to look for more... but this is directly from the mouth of his coach saying he saw reduction in playing time due to pass protection concerns. You don't need much more of a source than that. And they never played him over Bradshaw, I'm not sure where you're getting this... when Bradshaw was healthy he was on the field for like 80% of the snaps.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000077573/article/giants-unsure-about-andre-browns-pass-protection

Well, there you go Concept Coop, straight from the horses mouth.

 

[Concept Coop]

This is just one source as I'm to lazy to look for more... but this is directly from the mouth of his coach saying he saw reduction in playing time due to pass protection concerns. You don't need much more of a source than that. And they never played him over Bradshaw, I'm not sure where you're getting this... when Bradshaw was healthy he was on the field for like 80% of the snaps.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000077573/article/giants-unsure-about-andre-browns-pass-protection

Carry/Recpetion Ratio - 2012

Brown: 6.08/1

Bradshaw: 9.60/1

Wilson: 17.75/1

11/4 - 11/25 (Both healthy):

Bradshaw: 35 carries 5 receptions

Brown: 27 carries 5 receptions

Thanks for the article; I hadn't noticed, nor read that Brown was having pass pro issues. I take that as a daming sign for Bradshaw, personally. They let one of the best pass pro backs walk and weren't even interested in signing him at a reduced rate.

 

[Concept Coop]

Well, there you go Concept Coop, straight from the horses mouth.

You're cute.

 

[JohnnyU]

Well, there you go Concept Coop, straight from the horses mouth.

You're cute.

That's what she said.

 

[JohnnyU]

This is just one source as I'm to lazy to look for more... but this is directly from the mouth of his coach saying he saw reduction in playing time due to pass protection concerns. You don't need much more of a source than that. And they never played him over Bradshaw, I'm not sure where you're getting this... when Bradshaw was healthy he was on the field for like 80% of the snaps.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000077573/article/giants-unsure-about-andre-browns-pass-protection

I take that as a daming sign on Bradshaw, personally. They let one of the best pass pro backs walk and weren't even interested in signing him at a reduced rate.

Maybe they feel good health which leads to good running ability and attitude are more important than what he gives them at pass protection, which is overrated imo. You can pass protect very well with a back that doesn't pass block if your OL is good enough.

 

[ShaHBucks]

It makes sense if Brown is the GL back, as in, if its 1st or 2nd&Goal from the 2 yard line but him in there. If theyre at the 5 and Wilson is in the backfield, the D has a lot more to think about. Who know how Coughlin or the NYG people will play that though.

What makes you say this?

It's kind of just a common sense thing on how the game works. David Wilson is a much more dynamic back than Brown, even though you keep trying to completely ignore that fact. Brown in the backfield screams draw. Wilson in the backfield screams nothing. The whole playbook is at their disposal. It's the same concept as say the 09' Ravens. McGahee in the backfield? Hmm probably a draw, Rice in the backfield? Crap... cover everything who knows what they're going to do. I'm also saying that as the 09 Ravens rushing is kind of how I see the 2013 Giants backfield.

I don't ignore anything. I watched Wilson drop as may passes as he caught. Brown was pretty good in that area. I was wondering what did I miss. There's no evidence to prove otherwise.

 

[TheFanatic]

This is just one source as I'm to lazy to look for more... but this is directly from the mouth of his coach saying he saw reduction in playing time due to pass protection concerns. You don't need much more of a source than that. And they never played him over Bradshaw, I'm not sure where you're getting this... when Bradshaw was healthy he was on the field for like 80% of the snaps.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000077573/article/giants-unsure-about-andre-browns-pass-protection

Carry/Recpetion Ratio - 2012

Brown: 6.08/1

Bradshaw: 9.60/1

Wilson: 17.75/1

11/4 - 11/25 (Both healthy):

Bradshaw: 35 carries 5 receptions

Brown: 27 carries 5 receptions

Thanks for the article; I hadn't noticed, nor read that Brown was having pass pro issues. I take that as a daming sign for Bradshaw, personally. They let one of the best pass pro backs walk and weren't even interested in signing him at a reduced rate.

Or instead of an indictment of Bradshaw, maybe it's a promising sign about Wilson?

 

[Clifford]

Camp notes never mention running backs. Kinda weird.

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2013/07/giants_training_camp_notes_observations_from_day_4.html

ETA Found something

http://www.lohud.com/viewart/20130729/SPORTS/307290092/Giants-running-game-gets-ready-David-Wilson-Andre-Brown

For now, Wilson is sharing carries with Brown in training camp but it would seem that he is destined to be the starter.“It’s a great opportunity and I’m stepping in, trying to do all of the right things that I need to do to help this team to win,” Wilson said. “I know what I have to do this training camp in order to get the maximum playing time. We’re working together. We bring two different things and a lot of the same things. When we’re out there on the field, we’re just trying to make each other better, so when we go out there on game day, the defense doesn’t have to worry about just one of us.”

 

[Concept Coop]

Or instead of an indictment of Bradshaw, maybe it's a promising sign about Wilson?

I think it certainly was, in many ways. I think they feel they have a quality starting RB. I am more talking about the pass protection aspect. Wilson and Brown are both question marks, at best. Bradshaw was one of the best in the league; even if they thought they had the answer in a combination of Wilson/Brown - I'd assume Bradshaw would have been kept, if not for major concern about his injury(ies).

 

[Khy]

I take that as a daming sign for Bradshaw, personally. They let one of the best pass pro backs walk and weren't even interested in signing him at a reduced rate.

I'm not sure about that... one of my main points since way earlier in this thread (and others regarding this situation) was on why they let Bradshaw walk and how it was a benefit only to Wilson. And my observation of that is this...

• It wasn't just about money: If it was they could have easily resigned him after he cleared waivers and sat around for months without so much as a phone call. If they were really worried about the pass blocking scheme they'd have given the guy an easy million to stick around and be a third down back behind whoever started.
• It was likely about injuries: Bradshaw hasn't been able to stay actually healthy his entire career and big shock he's hurt again.

If they were willing to let the best pass blocker in the NFL walk because of his injury issues, do you really think they let him go while thinking Andre Brown was the answer to all their problems? At least when Bradshaw was injured he'd play through it to a decent level of effectiveness. When Brown gets injured his limbs explode. No they let Bradshaw walk and kept a clean conscious about it because they just drafted David Wilson in the first round and the guy is explosive to the point that it's scary. And they are confident in their coaching staff being able to train him early on how to properly secure the football and pass protect.

Bradshaw didn't walk into this league a 7th Round draft pick who was a pass blocking prodigy. The Giants coaching staff is what made him that good and they have the confidence they can do the same thing with Wilson. And Wilson is clearly a better all around rushing talent than Bradshaw by a mile and better than Brown by a lightyear. This is Wilson's backfield not Brown's. The sentiments in this thread that Coughlin won't sit a healthy Andre Brown are asinine. Yes Andre Brown is good... but we're talking a similar situation to say... Ray Rice and Bernard Pierce or Shady and Bryce Brown. Like yes, the guy behind each of those studs is a great talent but doesn't really come close to the elite talent in front of them. They are role players at best, nothing more. That is what you're going to see in New York this season.

 

[ShaHBucks]

Or instead of an indictment of Bradshaw, maybe it's a promising sign about Wilson?

I think it certainly was, in many ways. I think they feel they have a quality starting RB. I am more talking about the pass protection aspect. Wilson and Brown are both question marks, at best. Bradshaw was one of the best in the league; even if they thought they had the answer in a combination of Wilson/Brown - I'd assume Bradshaw would have been kept, if not for major concern about his injury(ies).

Saving 2.5m may have been the nail in the coffin. You can teach blocking

 

[Concept Coop]

Saving 2.5m may have been the nail in the coffin.

I read that they weren't even interested in bringing him back at a recuded rate.

Bradshaw was supposed to have been fine a long time ago, and is now on the PUP, won't be playing in pre-season, and not even practicing yet.

I think there was more to the injury that was let on, and I think the Giants knew it.

 

[Concept Coop]

The sentiments in this thread that Coughlin won't sit a healthy Andre Brown are asinine. Yes Andre Brown is good... but we're talking a similar situation to say... Ray Rice and Bernard Pierce or Shady and Bryce Brown. Like yes, the guy behind each of those studs is a great talent but doesn't really come close to the elite talent in front of them. They are role players at best, nothing more. That is what you're going to see in New York this season.

What facts? We don't have facts. Your guess is likely as good as that of anyone else. But it's silly to call others blind for not coming to the same conclusion as you, when we don't have facts to ignore.

David Wilson is not LeSean McCoy or Ray Rice. Maybe he will be, but to this point, he's not. He doen't have the track record. If you expect him to demand a Ray Rice share of carries - that's your opinion and maybe you'll be proven right. But, again, it's just opinion and we'll see.

I personally expect Wilson to start, and get a 2:1 series ratio, in terms of early down work, while Brown gets most of the situational work.

And Bryce Brown is an elite talent, just raw. And Pierce looked pretty damn good last year.

 

[Leonidas]

If people are assuming Brown is the GL back due to size, they are also assuming Wilson is the 3rd down back due to speed. Neither is more or less rational than the other, in my opinion. I personally think Brown is the 3rd down/GL/COP back, with Wilson getting 60% of the early down work.

I think a lot of people are assuming Brown will be the goal line back because he was used in that capacity last year.

16.4% of Brown's carries were at the goal line.

 

[Khy]

If people are assuming Brown is the GL back due to size, they are also assuming Wilson is the 3rd down back due to speed. Neither is more or less rational than the other, in my opinion. I personally think Brown is the 3rd down/GL/COP back, with Wilson getting 60% of the early down work.

I think a lot of people are assuming Brown will be the goal line back because he was used in that capacity last year.

16.4% of Brown's carries were at the goal line.

Yeah, I mean that's a valid point. Someone mentioned a page or two ago though that both Bradshaw and Brown both had 12 carries from the goalline last season. So it's one of those things like... Brown wasn't really "the" guy at the goal line. He was however, very successful at it but you'd have to assume if Wilson is the starter. He'll get about half of the goal line carries or so. Plus he's a threat to score from anywhere on the field.

 

[RBM]

And Bryce Brown is an elite talent, just raw..

Dear lord. Adrian Peterson is an elite talent. Bryce freakin Brown is like 5 levels below AP.

 

[ShaHBucks]

And Bryce Brown is an elite talent, just raw..

Dear lord. Adrian Peterson is an elite talent. Bryce freakin Brown is like 5 levels below AP.

169 and 178 with two TDs in each game for his first two starts. Elite is on the table

 

[Concept Coop]

And Bryce Brown is an elite talent, just raw..

Dear lord. Adrian Peterson is an elite talent. Bryce freakin Brown is like 5 levels below AP.

Elite is subjective; AP is an all-time great. If AP is the measuring stick, than I don't know that there is a 2nd elite RB in the NFL right now.

If we are using a more liberal definition, and discussing physcial ability, then I consider Brown an elite talent. Don't know that he'll ever put it all together, and don't know that he'll ever be an elite performer. But that isn't what I mean when I call him an elite talent.

 

[Sabertooth]

Loving this kid.

And Bryce Brown is an elite talent, just raw..

Dear lord. Adrian Peterson is an elite talent. Bryce freakin Brown is like 5 levels below AP.

Elite is subjective; AP is an all-time great. If AP is the measuring stick, than I don't know that there is a 2nd elite RB in the NFL right now.

If we are using a more liberal definition, and discussing physcial ability, then I consider Brown an elite talent. Don't know that he'll ever put it all together, and don't know that he'll ever be an elite performer. But that isn't what I mean when I call him an elite talent.

Ever heard of a litle guy named Zac Stacy?

 

[RBM]

And Bryce Brown is an elite talent, just raw..

Dear lord. Adrian Peterson is an elite talent. Bryce freakin Brown is like 5 levels below AP.

169 and 178 with two TDs in each game for his first two starts. Elite is on the table

Not its really not. Not even close.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Andre Brown will definitely get some touches if he is healthy, but his only 100-yard game last year came on a Thursday night against a Carolina team that looked like they wanted to be anywhere but at a football game.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

And Bryce Brown is an elite talent, just raw..

Dear lord. Adrian Peterson is an elite talent. Bryce freakin Brown is like 5 levels below AP.

169 and 178 with two TDs in each game for his first two starts. Elite is on the table

Not its really not. Not even close.

How about we just refer to AP as "Super Duper Elite" then, if it will make you feel better.

 

[ShaHBucks]

And Bryce Brown is an elite talent, just raw..

Dear lord. Adrian Peterson is an elite talent. Bryce freakin Brown is like 5 levels below AP.

169 and 178 with two TDs in each game for his first two starts. Elite is on the table

Not its really not. Not even close.

Why isn't he a elite talent? He was better than David Wilson and earned his carries behind McCoy. His only issue is fumbles, just like AP early in his career.

 

[Khy]

And Bryce Brown is an elite talent, just raw..

Dear lord. Adrian Peterson is an elite talent. Bryce freakin Brown is like 5 levels below AP.

169 and 178 with two TDs in each game for his first two starts. Elite is on the table

Not its really not. Not even close.

Why isn't he a elite talent? He was better than David Wilson and earned his carries behind McCoy. His only issue is fumbles, just like AP early in his career.

See, I was already taking most of your Wilson bias with a grain of salt. But now we're just getting ridiculous here.

 

[monk]

And Bryce Brown is an elite talent, just raw..

Dear lord. Adrian Peterson is an elite talent. Bryce freakin Brown is like 5 levels below AP.

169 and 178 with two TDs in each game for his first two starts. Elite is on the table

And immeditaely pulled off of the table in the next 4 weeks (12 for 6, 16 for 34, 4 for 18 and 8 for 18) plus fumbled 4 times and lost 3 in less than 130 touches.

 

[Yenrub]

Andre Brown will definitely get some touches if he is healthy, but his only 100-yard game last year came on a Thursday night against a Carolina team that looked like they wanted to be anywhere but at a football game.

Wilson’s only 100 yard game came against the Saints… who just so happen to be worst team against the run last year.

 

[ShaHBucks]

And Bryce Brown is an elite talent, just raw..

Dear lord. Adrian Peterson is an elite talent. Bryce freakin Brown is like 5 levels below AP.

169 and 178 with two TDs in each game for his first two starts. Elite is on the table

Not its really not. Not even close.

Why isn't he a elite talent? He was better than David Wilson and earned his carries behind McCoy. His only issue is fumbles, just like AP early in his career.

See, I was already taking most of your Wilson bias with a grain of salt. But now we're just getting ridiculous here.

Why? He bigger, stronger, faster, more agile and didn't embarrass himself when he got a chance. Pierce is better than Wilson too

 

[Leonidas]

Andre Brown will definitely get some touches if he is healthy, but his only 100-yard game last year came on a Thursday night against a Carolina team that looked like they wanted to be anywhere but at a football game.

Wilson’s only 100 yard game came against the Saints… who just so happen to be worst team against the run last year.

Wilson only had 10+ carries in 3 games. How many 100 yard games do you expect somebody to get out of that?

 

[Ghost Rider]

Andre Brown will definitely get some touches if he is healthy, but his only 100-yard game last year came on a Thursday night against a Carolina team that looked like they wanted to be anywhere but at a football game.

Wilson’s only 100 yard game came against the Saints… who just so happen to be worst team against the run last year.

Okay, but Wilson only had double digit carries three time last year: 13, 12 and 15. He averaged 5.75 YPC in those games.

Brown had double digit carries also three times, and he averaged 5.39 YPC.

So, both guys did well when they were given a lot of carries. I think both will fit great roles this year, but given Wilson's explosiveness and Brown's injury history, the former has far more upside. Brown does have the potential to be the better value though, if he can stay healthy and produce.

 

[Yenrub]

Andre Brown will definitely get some touches if he is healthy, but his only 100-yard game last year came on a Thursday night against a Carolina team that looked like they wanted to be anywhere but at a football game.

Wilson’s only 100 yard game came against the Saints… who just so happen to be worst team against the run last year.

Wilson only had 10+ carries in 3 games. How many 100 yard games do you expect somebody to get out of that?

Just pointing out the Wilson’s ONLY 100 yard game came against an equally bad if not worse run defense as Brown’s ONLY 100 yard game.

I don’t think Brown has had too many games with 10+ carries either

 

[Yenrub]

Andre Brown will definitely get some touches if he is healthy, but his only 100-yard game last year came on a Thursday night against a Carolina team that looked like they wanted to be anywhere but at a football game.

Wilson’s only 100 yard game came against the Saints… who just so happen to be worst team against the run last year.

Okay, but Wilson only had double digit carries three time last year: 13, 12 and 15. He averaged 5.75 YPC in those games.

Brown had double digit carries also three times, and he averaged 5.39 YPC.

So, both guys did well when they were given a lot of carries. I think both will fit great roles this year, but given Wilson's explosiveness and Brown's injury history, the former has far more upside. Brown does have the potential to be the better value though, if he can stay healthy and produce.

I agree that Wilson has the higher upside

As far as the YPC goes in those game, how many of carries were down at the GL for both backs?

Probably doesn’t matter too much but it would be interesting to see

 

[JohnnyU]

In the Shark Pool the only ones worth listening to are those who don't own either and that's also subjective. Those who have = love fest and those who don't have bash.

 

[Khy]

In the Shark Pool the only ones worth listening to are those who don't own either and that's also subjective. Those who have = love fest and those who don't have bash.

I own neither in any league, I am however a Giants homer. Giants football is practically a religion to me and honestly any Giants fan you talk to feels the same way I do about the Wilson/Brown situation. If you follow the Giants closely enough you get a feel for how they do things there. They didn't draft Wilson in the first round to not give him a chance just because Andre Brown showed some decent promise. All Brown's promise gave them was the ability to release Bradshaw and not think twice about it. Andre Brown isn't suddenly going to supplant David Wilson for touches it just won't happen. Coughlin is notorious for being stingy with rookies... everyone keeps referencing Brown's carries last season and how Brown got carries over Wilson. And how Scott and Lumpkin got carries over Wilson... all of that is literally useless information for this season. Sure, if Wilson hadn't had that first fumble he may have seen some more carries last season but he still wouldn't have had more than 100-150 last season regardless of what happened. This is how the Giants handle like every single rookie... look at Rueben Randle. Last season he barely saw playing time, but he made the most of his on the field opportunity and this season is locked in clearly at the #3 WR. Cruz didn't even get on the field really in his rookie season (granted he wasn't a first round pick), second year though he had a good camp and took a hold of a injury opportunity. You really won't find a Giants rookie skill position player that saw significant playing time as a rookie. This is an accepted fact, the problem is Wilson got SO MUCH hype after that Bears preseason game last season everyone assumed he was the second coming of Barry Sanders and was going to explode onto the scene last season. That was never an option last season, this year is the year Coughlin gives him every opportunity to succeed.

 

[RBM]

And Bryce Brown is an elite talent, just raw..

Dear lord. Adrian Peterson is an elite talent. Bryce freakin Brown is like 5 levels below AP.

169 and 178 with two TDs in each game for his first two starts. Elite is on the table

Not its really not. Not even close.

Why isn't he a elite talent? He was better than David Wilson and earned his carries behind McCoy. His only issue is fumbles, just like AP early in his career.

Being better than Wilson doesn't make him elite. And nobody knows if he's better than Wilson; neither have done a thing yet. I'd love to hear how many rbs are elite talents. Like is it just AP and Bryce Brown? Or are there like 20-25 elite talents in the league right now?

 

[ShaHBucks]

And Bryce Brown is an elite talent, just raw..

Dear lord. Adrian Peterson is an elite talent. Bryce freakin Brown is like 5 levels below AP.

169 and 178 with two TDs in each game for his first two starts. Elite is on the table

Not its really not. Not even close.

Why isn't he a elite talent? He was better than David Wilson and earned his carries behind McCoy. His only issue is fumbles, just like AP early in his career.

Being better than Wilson doesn't make him elite. And nobody knows if he's better than Wilson; neither have done a thing yet. I'd love to hear how many rbs are elite talents. Like is it just AP and Bryce Brown? Or are there like 20-25 elite talents in the league right now?

Wilson is better than Barry Sanders. Where have you been?