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And Shannahan says he isnt going to release McNabb......some things are just for show. I am sure DeAngelo is a very popular player in the area and saying they dont need him back puts alot of pressure on a new coach. He is going to Denver, no doubt about it.
Fox and Williams have a very good relationship. Williams has stated multiple times that he wasn't ready when he was backing up Foster, and the summer after Foster left he finally "got it" in what he needed to do to succeed in the game.
Do you have anything to support this claim other than you are probably miffed that this happened?Sounds to me like you are just wishing.
You have no idea what you are talking about. For one, Fox did not hinder DeAngelo's development, DeAngelo did that himself the first two years. He did not take his job seriously, but then he had an awakening. Even his teammates were shocked how much he improved the summer before his third season. Another thing, Stewart was not shelved when DeAngelo had his best year. Stewart missed no games that season. DeAngelo also has said on more than one occasion that he loved playing for Fox, and he loved playing with Stewart. DeAngelo and Stewart set their goals together, and that is the way they wanted it. Not every back has the ME Me Me mentality. Fox does like the two back approach, but there is one that is always considered the #1, and for the last three years when healthy it was DeAngelo. Also it's ignorant to assume that Fox is going to spiral out of Denver.
Wait, Miami? What?
This has gotta stop. What possible response do you expect when you say something so rude over someone when discussing things? I don't think I took a swipe at anyone but you couldn't wait to let the 1st sentence be what you wrote. Instead of saying I disagree and let me show you, instead you go right into an attack. You have a differing opinion, congrads, doesn't make you right. Not many facts in what you posted either, just difering POV...which of course would be fine.
Shark Pool is brutally honest
Just because it's something you have never heard doesn't make it not true. I've read a lot of what meanjoegreen is talking about over the years in the Charlotte paper by the beatwriters, etc. DeAngelo did in fact say he it didn't click for him until after his second year. He said that during his first two years he didn't know how to put it all together. He also said that staying in top physical condition was not a high priority for him during that time. He finally got it though. His teammates did in fact say they were surprised at how much DeAngelo improved over that summer. DeAngelo did in fact say that he and Stewart made their goals for the season together. They wanted to set new rushing records as a duo, etc. DeAngelo has credited others for improving his game, but he gives Stewart the most credit. "(Stewart made) a huge, huge difference," Williams said. "He keeps me on my toes. ... With Jonathan out there, whenever I come to the sideline, we talk about certain plays. We talk about what he sees the linebackers doing, if I don't see them. He tells me what the cornerbacks are doing, what the safeties are doing on the backside, where he would have taken (the ball). I do the same for him. Having two sets of eyes out there, it helps tremendously."
Shark Pool is brutally WRONG many times too.
If the quotes were actually used to back your point and MJGs that DeAngelo was not a professional when he came into the NFL...it might feel more credible. The quotes about JStew...I don't think I brought him up so I'm not sure what we are even discussing. I said that DeAngelo would be a fool to go to Denver and that Miami is too dumb to sign him. I then said I have little faith in Fox in his new home. If you all want to play the crazy card rather than just have a good clean debate then I wish you a good evening and we'll pick it up another time and in another thread.Cheers
JGB,You lay ot in the 1st paragraph exactly why I think Fox is headed for disaster agan. He isn't going to change so the fact he had a gem like DWill and didn't maximize him right away tells me al I need to know about the situation. Now all of you might read it a different way. Imagine a circle and I am a dot on the actual line at the bottom of the circle(I feel the MOP Pizza Math breaking out). You, MJG, and others are on the top of the circle although there really isn't a top or bottom in a roundabout way. The Fox/Williams debate is in the center of the circle. You all can have your opinion and POV, and I can have mine on how to look into the center of this situation/debate/discussion. CheersIs this really worth all this posting? I'm thinking no.
I think Tampa might be a surprise player in this simply because Deangelo is superior to any RB on the TB roster and if I'm not mistaken TB is going to be forced to spend more than any team in the NFL to meet the salary cap floor. Something like around $50 million.
Meanjoegreen never said DeAngelo was not a professional when he came into the NFL. He said he didn't take it seriously, and I remember very well the interview where DeAngelo said that. As I stated before he also said in another interview that during that time being in top condition was just not a top priority for him. There was a game in his second season where he had a 75 yard run against Arizona and he got caught from behind due to his poor conditioning. Vinny Testaverde had a long talk with him after that game, and DeAngelo said that was a turning point for him. I have no idea what the crazy card is, but it would do you some good to drop the arrogance act.'Ministry of Pain said:
It's already been stated, but Fox did the right thing not starting DeAngelo his first two years, because DeAngelo was not ready and DeAngelo has admitted that before. It's not an opinion, it is a fact. I don't know why you refuse to accept that. The 2008 Panther website and Charlotte paper archives are no longer open, but I did find these:'Ministry of Pain said:
If you want to pay to look at the sports archives that go back to 2008 in the Charlotte Observer, you will find where DeAngelo talks about what MJG said.On a different note, I read an article yesterday in the Charlotte Observer with Stewart saying he wants Carolina to keep Williams, but they have no idea what will happen. article'Ministry of Pain said:
'J Giles Band said:
JGB, MJG, and simey have all noted, Williams wasn't ready to be the starter until his 3rd season. Fox had some great, good, and not so good years at Carolina, but overall he is a good coach and very much liked by his players.I don't know where DeAngelo will end up, but I do think he will get some interest from several teams. I wouldn't be surprised to see Carolina keep him, but they do have Stewart and Goodson, and could use the trade to take care of other pressing needs. I think most teams these days like to have three good backs on their team. How many backs did New Orleans go through last year?
In fairness to Fox, Deshaun Foster wasn't exactly devoid of talent and Foster was used the same way (as a CoP back) while Stephen Davis was finishing his career in Carolina. Fox was a protege of Bill Parcells who was also very loyal to veterans at the expense of rookies/youngsters.Will Fox succeed in Denver? I don't know, but I think you may be judging him a little too harshly based on his last few seasons in Carolina when the were decimated by injuries and had some voids in talent. Fox had a very successful run in Carolina where he took that team to the Super Bowl and had a few really good seasons.'Ministry of Pain said:
In regard to Foster, the year he took over as lead back and DeAngelo was a rookie, Foster was more prepared to take the lead role. He blocked better than DeAngelo, he hit the holes hard while DeAngelo danced behind the line, and as mentioned DeAngelo wasn't in as good of shape, etc. Foster was the better choice at that time. Once DeAngelo decided to get his act together and improve his game he was rewarded for it his third year.Fox took the team to the Super Bowl his second year, and took them to the NFC Championship twice, and the playoffs three times. He did have some major bad luck with injuries. There used to be a joke that Bank of America Stadium sat on a buriel ground, and that is why there were was always a bizarre amount of injuries. As for the dismal year last year, the product that was on the field last year was the fault of Jerry Richardson, not John Fox. Jerry wouldn't open his purse for Fox to get quality free agents or resign vets due to preparing for the lockout. I'm a Panther fan and watch all the games, and one thing I noticed even during last years misery is that Fox's players always play their heart out for him, and they never give up. I wish Fox the best in Denver. I wish us the best in Carolina. lol
Even with the drafting of Helu and Royster??
Slightly off topic, but IMO (and I'm sure we all know) without Jeff Otah the Carolina running game is just not that dominant.
OK, glad we cleared that up
You have issues, dude.
Straying off topic, but...That line was just beat up last year. It should by all means be improved this year. The personnel is good, and Sparano is a former OL coach. Long is a top 3 LT who played half the season with a dislocated shoulder, and Vernon Carey is a solid RT who missed 4 games. Incognito is a mauler at LG, and Pouncy at C had better be good after costing them the 16th overall pick. Garner/Jerry at RG is average, but overall the personnel on that OL looks good on paper. The starting OL looks like it will be pretty decent IMO this season. Especially if Pouncy is close to his brother's equal.
I'm with you guys. Denver is a popular pick, but will they have enough money/cap to do it? Figures I'm seeing have them around $125M. Where as Carolina is around $74M and Miami $103M. Tampa Bay has plenty of cap room to make a move, and like meno said, might have to make some big purchases if there is a cap floor. The team, especially the offense, is on the rise. DeAngelo and Blount would make a nice combo. Overall, it's a good team, nice opportunity, pleasant weather, they have money to spend and state tax free income.
You better start that countdown at 3 billion years, no 30 billion years, no, OK you get my point. No true Denver Bronco fan will EVER want McDaniels back EVER!!!!! And Frankly I'm insulted that you even said that. You are normally a very good poster on these boards, but you whiffed big time with that statement, unless you were
in which case, touche, you got me hook line and sinker!
A complete mess, actually. Wasn't always this way, which is a shame.
This is a bunch of hindsight justification and cliche'.Williams, like all rookies, even the ones who produce at a high level right away, came into the league with the light off. Anyone think LT never had a "the light came on" moment? Anyone think LT in year 3 wasn't a better professional than he was as a rookie? Yet he started right away. Williams isn't describing anything that's unique to him. All rookies go through it. The difference is that some coaches prefer to develop their players on the bench while others believe in development under fire. DeAngelo obviously played for the former.
That's the whole point. DeAngelo went through the same professional development that all players go through. The difference is that Fox thinks you need to go through that before he hands you the reigns while other coaches would go ahead and play you. When Fox told DeAngelo he wasn't ready yet, DeAngelo took his word for it and says he wasn't ready. It's basically the ugly duckling story. DeAngelo is coachable and humble. That doesn't mean he shouldn't have been starting in year one or two.The only way you can explain Davis starting over Foster and then Foster starting over Williams is that Fox trusts veterans more. Stephen Davis was not that talented a RB.
Yes I think you are wrong. If you watched DeAngelo his first two years it was obvious he wasn't ready. If you listened to him in his interviews during camp 2008 it was clear he was being brutally honest about the light coming on for him. All the players and coaches in their interviews during camp were astounded by his improvement and attitude change. Delhomme's situation was completely different than DeAngelos. Delhomme started to regress in his second to last year with the Panthers, but the Panthers went to the playoffs. Nobody expected his final year to be a disaster. Jake got into his own head with his mistakes and couldn't get himself out, and yes Fox should have changed QBs before Delhomme got hurt, but he was loyal to him to a fault. That is completely different than having a seasoned RB like Foster already with the team, starting over a rookie who can't block worth a damn, runs backwards at the like of scrimmage, and doesn't care if he is out of shape.
Fox has started many rookies at their positions. All of Fox's first round picks have started as rookies with the exception of DeAngelo and Stewart, and both got playing time during their rookie seasons.
I'd have such a huge boner if this happened. That offense would start to look really scary with DeAngelo.
Was starting to think I really was on an island here. Wouldn't be the first time and I am prefectly content flying solo on my POV. Agree with what you just said and maybe I didn't do a good job of explaining myself but everything you mentioned runs through my head when we start talking about John Fox, DWill, and the rest of it.
