DeAngelo Williams restructures - Stewart fans have to wait again (1 Viewer)

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Restructure DeAngelo Williams' deal Wed May 15, 09:07 AM

The Carolina Panthers restructured RB DeAngelo Williams' contract. He was in the third season of a five-year, $43 million contract and was scheduled to earn $5 million with an $8.2 million salary cap number for 2013. Williams will still receive $5 million in cash this year, but the deal has been restructured in a way that reduces his cap number to $5 million, a cap savings of $3.2 million that leaves the team $8.46 million under their adjusted 2013 salary cap number of $126.232 million. Williams was scheduled to earn $4.75 million in non-guaranteed base salary with a $250,000 workout bonus this season. Under the renegotiated contract, Williams' base salary was lowered to $850,000 and his workout bonus reduced to $150,000. The remaining $4 million was converted to a signing bonus, which will be prorated against the Panthers' cap at $800,000 per season through 2017.

 

[Shutout]

I actually take this as a good sign: To me it reads "Panthers new office finally sees the priortiy RB; tells backup DWIL to take less or get cut".

People need to remember that this is a new regime with a new way of looking at things. Every teams want talent at the right price but apparently the Panthers were at least willing to entertain the idea that they may be getting ready to have a conversation with DWIL that would result in him not being there anymore. I think that says something for the commitment to JSTEW.

 

[Concept Coop]

I actually take this as a good sign: To me it reads "Panthers new office finally sees the priortiy RB; tells backup DWIL to take less or get cut".

People need to remember that this is a new regime with a new way of looking at things. Every teams want talent at the right price but apparently the Panthers were at least willing to entertain the idea that they may be getting ready to have a conversation with DWIL that would result in him not being there anymore. I think that says something for the commitment to JSTEW.

They could have cut him. It was purely a money thing - you can't pay that much to a RB who isn't producing at a top 5-10 clip. Williams wasn't so he took the cut.

There is nothing positive here for Stewart owners, in my opinion. They'll each be used as they have been the last few years.

 

[Shutout]

I actually take this as a good sign: To me it reads "Panthers new office finally sees the priortiy RB; tells backup DWIL to take less or get cut".

People need to remember that this is a new regime with a new way of looking at things. Every teams want talent at the right price but apparently the Panthers were at least willing to entertain the idea that they may be getting ready to have a conversation with DWIL that would result in him not being there anymore. I think that says something for the commitment to JSTEW.

They could have cut him. It was purely a money thing - you can't pay that much to a RB who isn't producing at a top 5-10 clip. Williams wasn't so he took the cut.

There is nothing positive here for Stewart owners, in my opinion. They'll each be used as they have been the last few years.

Sure, it was a money thing and this is the best compromised solution but the statement I am making is, from a business standpoint, someone absolutely did sit in an office sometwhere and say "Ok, go talk to him and I AM prepared to not have him on this team if it doesn't work out."

That tells you he is not perceived as the man, or the man they can't live without anymore. And with that type of decision being made by a new thinktank in Carolina I think gives reasonable optimism that they see the value of using JSTEW.

But hey! Its JSTEW. This topic wouldn't be any fun if it weren't constantly so polarizing. But my gut says we see a difference this year. Not saying rush out and "buy JSTEW right now". Just saying I think we notice the difference.

 

[zamboni]

Or maybe we just continue to overrate Stewart.

Player Att Yds Yds/Att Long TD

DeAngelo Williams 173 737 4.3 65 5

Cam Newton 127 741 5.8 72 8

Jonathan Stewart 93 336 3.6 21 1

 

[squistion]

I actually take this as a good sign: To me it reads "Panthers new office finally sees the priortiy RB; tells backup DWIL to take less or get cut".

People need to remember that this is a new regime with a new way of looking at things. Every teams want talent at the right price but apparently the Panthers were at least willing to entertain the idea that they may be getting ready to have a conversation with DWIL that would result in him not being there anymore. I think that says something for the commitment to JSTEW.

They could have cut him. It was purely a money thing - you can't pay that much to a RB who isn't producing at a top 5-10 clip. Williams wasn't so he took the cut.

There is nothing positive here for Stewart owners, in my opinion. They'll each be used as they have been the last few years.

I agree, but I am sure EBF will spin this as another great buying opportunity to acquire Stewart

 

[Shutout]

I actually take this as a good sign: To me it reads "Panthers new office finally sees the priortiy RB; tells backup DWIL to take less or get cut".

People need to remember that this is a new regime with a new way of looking at things. Every teams want talent at the right price but apparently the Panthers were at least willing to entertain the idea that they may be getting ready to have a conversation with DWIL that would result in him not being there anymore. I think that says something for the commitment to JSTEW.

They could have cut him. It was purely a money thing - you can't pay that much to a RB who isn't producing at a top 5-10 clip. Williams wasn't so he took the cut.

There is nothing positive here for Stewart owners, in my opinion. They'll each be used as they have been the last few years.

I agree, but I am sure EBF will spin this as another great buying opportunity to acquire Stewart

LOL. You guys poke at EBF on this topic quite a bit and I'm sure it is nice when you're on the right side of it so far, overall, but you know he is going to make you guys eat a LOT of crow if JSTEW strings together 2-3 seasons like he gave a glimmer of a few years ago. A couple of seasons doesn't sound like a lot but with today's RBs, 2-3 top years like he flashed before are about all you can ask for and is definitely enough to give you a contending FF team for a few years.

 

[eefflrat]

this means nothing, Williams is still getting paid the same amount of money, how this benefits stewart I can't see. He is the most talked about RB that I have ever seen in FF, who amounts to nothing almost every year. That glimmer of hope from 4 years ago may still be there, but I'm not buying.

 

[Concept Coop]

That tells you he is not perceived as the man, or the man they can't live without anymore. And with that type of decision being made by a new thinktank in Carolina I think gives reasonable optimism that they see the value of using JSTEW.

I agree. The problem being that I don't think they view Stewart that way either, which is why they'll conitnue using both.

LOL. You guys poke at EBF on this topic quite a bit and I'm sure it is nice when you're on the right side of it so far, overall, but you know he is going to make you guys eat a LOT of crow if JSTEW strings together 2-3 seasons like he gave a glimmer of a few years ago. A couple of seasons doesn't sound like a lot but with today's RBs, 2-3 top years like he flashed before are about all you can ask for and is definitely enough to give you a contending FF team for a few years.

I don't think it's impossible for Stewart to put together a RB2 season or two. If he stays healhty and the offense is more 2011 than 2012 - he's got a shot. But I think that's his upside right now.

 

[tdmills]

I actually take this as a good sign: To me it reads "Panthers new office finally sees the priortiy RB; tells backup DWIL to take less or get cut".

People need to remember that this is a new regime with a new way of looking at things. Every teams want talent at the right price but apparently the Panthers were at least willing to entertain the idea that they may be getting ready to have a conversation with DWIL that would result in him not being there anymore. I think that says something for the commitment to JSTEW.

They could have cut him. It was purely a money thing - you can't pay that much to a RB who isn't producing at a top 5-10 clip. Williams wasn't so he took the cut.

There is nothing positive here for Stewart owners, in my opinion. They'll each be used as they have been the last few years.

I agree, but I am sure EBF will spin this as another great buying opportunity to acquire Stewart

LOL. You guys poke at EBF on this topic quite a bit and I'm sure it is nice when you're on the right side of it so far, overall, but you know he is going to make you guys eat a LOT of crow if JSTEW strings together 2-3 seasons like he gave a glimmer of a few years ago. A couple of seasons doesn't sound like a lot but with today's RBs, 2-3 top years like he flashed before are about all you can ask for and is definitely enough to give you a contending FF team for a few years.

He's pretentious, therefore he deserves all of the responses.

 

[FDC]

Yes I was again eyeing a J Stew value for this year.

With Chud leaving and Shula likely leaning on a more traditional offense. And that defense improving...

And then they go out and draft a scat back and resign D Will... sigh

 

[Shutout]

I actually take this as a good sign: To me it reads "Panthers new office finally sees the priortiy RB; tells backup DWIL to take less or get cut".

People need to remember that this is a new regime with a new way of looking at things. Every teams want talent at the right price but apparently the Panthers were at least willing to entertain the idea that they may be getting ready to have a conversation with DWIL that would result in him not being there anymore. I think that says something for the commitment to JSTEW.

They could have cut him. It was purely a money thing - you can't pay that much to a RB who isn't producing at a top 5-10 clip. Williams wasn't so he took the cut.

There is nothing positive here for Stewart owners, in my opinion. They'll each be used as they have been the last few years.

I agree, but I am sure EBF will spin this as another great buying opportunity to acquire Stewart

LOL. You guys poke at EBF on this topic quite a bit and I'm sure it is nice when you're on the right side of it so far, overall, but you know he is going to make you guys eat a LOT of crow if JSTEW strings together 2-3 seasons like he gave a glimmer of a few years ago. A couple of seasons doesn't sound like a lot but with today's RBs, 2-3 top years like he flashed before are about all you can ask for and is definitely enough to give you a contending FF team for a few years.

He's pretentious, therefore he deserves all of the responses.

LOL. THat was funny.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

I actually take this as a good sign: To me it reads "Panthers new office finally sees the priortiy RB; tells backup DWIL to take less or get cut".

Where did you see him getting less money? It looked more like a "Take the guaranteed money, please?" message to me. The Panthers are working the cap, not Williams.

 

[dollarbill13]

This restructure basically looks to me that the Panthers plan on keeping D-Will in the fold through 2015. Given that his cap number will still be $5-6M over each of the next 3 years with a pretty large amount of dead money if they cut him, I'm actually looking to sell Stewart now.

 

[msommer]

Or maybe we just continue to overrate Stewart. Player Att Yds Yds/Att Long TD DeAngelo Williams 173 737 4.3 65 5Cam Newton 127 741 5.8 72 8Jonathan Stewart 93 336 3.6 21 1

Interestingly half of DeAngelos points came in the last five weeks of the season when Stewart was injured - and he had that 210 yards 2 TD game week 17.Not sure what to make of that, actually.

 

[Dolt_Cretin]

The bottom line is: Williams is still there. He's not going anywhere this season. Barring injury, another year of frustration for JStew owners.

 

[ghostguy123]

As a stewart owner, I hope he gets cut.

As a williams owner, sad he didnt go to Indy

 

[LawFitz]

LOL at the reading comprehension FAIL in this thread. DeLo did not take a pay cut and this restructure makes it more cap prohibitive to cut him in future years. JStew owners need to stew on that a bit.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

LOL at the reading comprehension FAIL in this thread. DeLo did not take a pay cut and this restructure makes it more cap prohibitive to cut him in future years. JStew owners need to stew on that a bit.

You may want to reevaluate the source of the fail. The way I read it, Williams took a MASSIVE pay cut. It isn't more prohibitive to cut him in future years, its just a lot easier to keep him because he will be making a lot less.This is awful news for both backs. Again. I am a Stewart owner, so now joy for me on that front. Finally sold DWill last year. Very glad I did now.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

LOL at the reading comprehension FAIL in this thread. DeLo did not take a pay cut and this restructure makes it more cap prohibitive to cut him in future years. JStew owners need to stew on that a bit.

I think it's a knee-jerk reaction for people to translate restructure to pay cut. It's obviously not happening here.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

Williams still will be paid $5 million this year, mostly in the form of a signing bonus. But the Panthers reportedly lowered Williams' salary-cap number by $3.2 million this year by extending the contract and reducing Williams' salaries in upcoming years. Williams was set to make a combined $13 million in 2014 and 2015, money he surely never would have received. Now, the contract reportedly calls for Williams to receive $1.85 million in base salary in each of those seasons, in addition to some incentives and workout bonus.

The contract terms support the notion that Williams might have been cut if he didn't restructure his contract, but this is a win-win deal. Williams still can be effective -- he just was overpaid.

From NFL.com

 

[MoveToSkypager]

The way I read it, Williams took a MASSIVE pay cut. It isn't more prohibitive to cut him in future years, its just a lot easier to keep him because he will be making a lot less.

Please explain the pay cut to me.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

The massive paycut is in 2014 and 2015. It makes it clearer to me that BOTH rbs will be in Carolina for the forseeable future.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

DWill is the better back, Carolina is not getting rid of him. He is still making bank.

 

[Bruce Hammond]

Stewart sits comfortably at RB28 in my latest dynasty rankings, before this news.

The writing has been on the wall that DWill would remain, or Barner would get increased reps, or Tolbert, or something, for some time.

Those who continue to delude themselves that Stewart is any kind of great value, any kind of super sleeper, really need to just give it up. The Carolina organization likes their RBBC (or RQBBC counting Cam) approach, and Stewart will never have the upside it takes to be a top 12 back. Maybe the nonsensical 'undervalued' talk can finally stop. He's not undervalued, he is what he is and never will be more than the lead RB in a committee who has a ton of TDs vultured by the QB. 'Talent' doesn't win in fantasy, production does. So enough about his talent already.

The Carolina organization made DeAngelo's career after that one huge season largely fantasy-unimportant, and they will do the same to Stew for as long as he's in the NFL. He's 26 when this season starts. Then 27 the next year when the Stew backers are again somehow surprised he's sharing. Then 28 the next year when Stew backers are again surprised he's sharing. And on and on until he's no longer relevant.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

The heartbreak here is that the Panthers used the #13 pick on a back AND extended his contract at a starter money rate, and yet never used him as a feature back...

 

[EBF]

Bummer, but I wouldn't say I thought he was a great redraft pick anyway.

From a dynasty standpoint, Stewart is 4 years younger than DeAngelo. If you think they'll both have the same longevity potential, do the math.

Sooner or later there should come a point where DeAngelo is washed up while Stewart is still in his prime. That's where I think we'll get the 2-3 year window of real value.

 

[TheFanatic]

The massive paycut is in 2014 and 2015. It makes it clearer to me that BOTH rbs will be in Carolina for the forseeable future.

Uh, not really. He was going to get 0 dollars in 2014 and 2015 from the Panthers as they would've cut him. Now he gets paid close to $2 million each year. These aren't guaranteed baseball contracts. The only thing guaranteed is the signing bonus. Those inflated years at the end of the contract are rarely receieved by the players...

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Bummer, but I wouldn't say I thought he was a great redraft pick anyway. From a dynasty standpoint, Stewart is 4 years younger than DeAngelo. If you think they'll both have the same longevity potential, do the math. Sooner or later there should come a point where DeAngelo is washed up while Stewart is still in his prime. That's where I think we'll get the 2-3 year window of real value.

I never read it, but according to some people you've been saying Stewart is a "buy" for years. Let's say I bought him several years ago. Considering the hole in my roster and whatever I spent to acquire him (a pick or other players), do you think a 2-3 years of RB1 production is a net gain?

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

The massive paycut is in 2014 and 2015. It makes it clearer to me that BOTH rbs will be in Carolina for the forseeable future.

Uh, not really. He was going to get 0 dollars in 2014 and 2015 from the Panthers as they would've cut him. Now he gets paid close to $2 million each year. These aren't guaranteed baseball contracts. The only thing guaranteed is the signing bonus. Those inflated years at the end of the contract are rarely receieved by the players...

he's super cheap now in the two seasons after this one and the 5 million bonus is spread out, pretty sure if they cut him, the cap hit accelerates.

 

[Bruce Hammond]

EBF, on 15 May 2013 - 11:41, said:Sooner or later there should come a point where DeAngelo is washed up while Stewart is still in his prime. That's where I think we'll get the 2-3 year window of real value.

Sweet Lord... seriously?First, I disagree with the 'still in his prime' point. In 2014 he's 27, and with his history of little leg injuries, I'd argue he'll already be past his prime.Second, don't you realize once Williams is gone they will draft the next RB to take carries, who will be as likely as not to relegate Stewart to minority RBBC share?I don't know of any nice way to say this -- your Stewart obsession has become ridiculous, and frankly, you're losing overall credibility over it. We all miss on our predictions, but we need to recognize when we've missed and adjust and move forward.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

The heartbreak here is that the Panthers used the #13 pick on a back AND extended his contract at a starter money rate, and yet never used him as a feature back...

Open your books to chapter 6 page 88 on "How to avoid making the playoffs".

 

[TheFanatic]

The massive paycut is in 2014 and 2015. It makes it clearer to me that BOTH rbs will be in Carolina for the forseeable future.

Uh, not really. He was going to get 0 dollars in 2014 and 2015 from the Panthers as they would've cut him. Now he gets paid close to $2 million each year. These aren't guaranteed baseball contracts. The only thing guaranteed is the signing bonus. Those inflated years at the end of the contract are rarely receieved by the players...

he's super cheap now in the two seasons after this one and the 5 million bonus is spread out, pretty sure if they cut him, the cap hit accelerates.

If he hadn't taken the pay cut, he would be on the street in a couple weeks. And yes, the cap hit would accelerate, but not nearly as bad if they cut him in June which would add a year to spread out the cap damage. He wasn't going to see a dime for this year, 2014 or 2015 and now will get something like $5 million this year and close to $2 million next year. That's $7 million more than he would've gotten. If he plays in '15, he'll get close to $9 more than if he were cut.

Just because he has a contract doesn't mean he will see the end of it. After he cashed the signing bonus, the team can tear the contract up.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Oof. What a waste (from the guy who sold out to trade up and get Stewart as a rookie in every league l was in). Glad I bailed on him last year, but still took moderate to big losses given what I had invested. Even if Williams had been dealt / cut I wasn't seeing the upside with Cam in play in the redzone. Now that they're all stuck together for the forseeable future, I doubt any RB there is even a decent RB2. Ugh.

 

[Jeremy]

The massive paycut is in 2014 and 2015. It makes it clearer to me that BOTH rbs will be in Carolina for the forseeable future.

Uh, not really. He was going to get 0 dollars in 2014 and 2015 from the Panthers as they would've cut him. Now he gets paid close to $2 million each year. These aren't guaranteed baseball contracts. The only thing guaranteed is the signing bonus. Those inflated years at the end of the contract are rarely receieved by the players...

he's super cheap now in the two seasons after this one and the 5 million bonus is spread out, pretty sure if they cut him, the cap hit accelerates.

Yeah, they converted salary to that signing bonus spread over 5 years. If they cut him, they're looking at millions of dead money vs the cap. Pay cut or not, he's clearly in their plans for at least a couple years.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Bummer, but I wouldn't say I thought he was a great redraft pick anyway.

From a dynasty standpoint, Stewart is 4 years younger than DeAngelo. If you think they'll both have the same longevity potential, do the math.

Sooner or later there should come a point where DeAngelo is washed up while Stewart is still in his prime. That's where I think we'll get the 2-3 year window of real value.

Can we just agree that we would have liked for both of them to be a true RB1 for whatever team they had played on be it Carolina or any where else? I seem to recall going back and forth about the talent of these guys and rather than try to prove one is better than the other maybe we could just respect them both. I am a huge DWill supporter, always was. I liked Stewart coming out of college as well and was bummed when they drafted him but was hopeful they could make both of them relevant. It just has not worked out that way too often.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

The massive paycut is in 2014 and 2015. It makes it clearer to me that BOTH rbs will be in Carolina for the forseeable future.

Uh, not really. He was going to get 0 dollars in 2014 and 2015 from the Panthers as they would've cut him. Now he gets paid close to $2 million each year. These aren't guaranteed baseball contracts. The only thing guaranteed is the signing bonus. Those inflated years at the end of the contract are rarely receieved by the players...

So you are saying he didn't get his salary reduced because he would have gotten cut because his salary was too high?

Here's the net effect:

• 2013 RestructureConverted $4M into "signing bonus"
  
  Reduced base from $4.75M to $850k
  
  Reduced Workout Bonus from $250k to $150k
  
  Added 2016-17 dummy years
  
• 2014 RestructureReduced base from $5.75M to $1.85M
  
  Reduced workout bonus from $250k to $150k
  
• 2015 RestructureReduced base from $6.75M to $1.85M
  
  Reduced workout bonus from $250k to $150k
  
  Added a $1 million Option Bonus
  

So it is definitely a real cut. The original salaries in 2013/2015/2015 weren't out of line with what he was being paid per year in 2011/2012. They just realized that was way more than they should be spending and dropped it. A LOT.

I really don't see how this could be construed as anything other than a pay cut to stay with the team. He was scheduled to make a lot, and now he isn't.

 

[tdmills]

EBF, on 15 May 2013 - 11:41, said:Sooner or later there should come a point where DeAngelo is washed up while Stewart is still in his prime. That's where I think we'll get the 2-3 year window of real value.

Sweet Lord... seriously?First, I disagree with the 'still in his prime' point. In 2014 he's 27, and with his history of little leg injuries, I'd argue he'll already be past his prime.Second, don't you realize once Williams is gone they will draft the next RB to take carries, who will be as likely as not to relegate Stewart to minority RBBC share?I don't know of any nice way to say this -- your Stewart obsession has become ridiculous, and frankly, you're losing overall credibility over it. We all miss on our predictions, but we need to recognize when we've missed and adjust and move forward.

At least BMI wasn't brought up in the response

 

[FreeBaGeL]

LOL. You guys poke at EBF on this topic quite a bit and I'm sure it is nice when you're on the right side of it so far, overall, but you know he is going to make you guys eat a LOT of crow if JSTEW strings together 2-3 seasons like he gave a glimmer of a few years ago. A couple of seasons doesn't sound like a lot but with today's RBs, 2-3 top years like he flashed before are about all you can ask for and is definitely enough to give you a contending FF team for a few years.

I think many people (particularly those that drafted him early or bought him early when his value was high) are already beyond the point where ~2 good years would even make the investment break even. There was a high cost paid to acquire him unless he was bought recently and he's had years sucking up a roster spot. That's not even to mention the times where he may have actually hurt your team by passing on another RB2 or RB3 because you thought you already had that spot taken care of with Stewart or the times you started him after that month's coachspeak and got poor production in return.

Luckily, I bought Stewart fairly cheaply half way through this mess, but I can't imagine early owners would feel particularly vindicated about it if he were to provide them 2 years of good production after 6 years of sitting on him.

 

[EBF]

Sooner or later there should come a point where DeAngelo is washed up while Stewart is still in his prime. That's where I think we'll get the 2-3 year window of real value.

Sweet Lord... seriously?

First, I disagree with the 'still in his prime' point. Next year he's 27, and with his history of little leg injuries, I'd argue he'll already be past his prime.

Second, don't you realize once Williams is gone they will draft the next RB to take carries, who will be as likely as not to relegate Stewart to minority RBBC share?

I don't know of any nice way to say this -- your Stewart obsession has become ridiculous, and frankly, you're losing overall credibility over it. We all miss on our predictions, but we need to recognize when we've missed and adjust and move forward.

Stewart and Williams have both suffered from being stuck on the same franchise. I think if you had put either of these guys in a situation where he had a real chance to be the every down back for a team, you would've gotten a great career. In terms of pure talent I rate these guys on par with the top 5-10 backs in the league. The difference between them and the likes McCoy, Gore, S Jackson, and Lynch is opportunity.

I don't have an obsession with Stewart. I just recognize him for what he is. A very good back. Top 15 overall draft pick with very rare tools. He's been very productive throughout his career when given opportunities and he really thrived in the one year where he was given a significant workload. I don't agree that he'll be resigned to a RBBC once Williams fades because I think there are only 1-2 backs in the average draft class who have enough talent to cut into his carries. The odds of Carolina getting one of those players in the next few years are fairly slim.

The irony of your post is pretty hilarious. You take me task for being optimistic about Stewart while at the same time ranking McFadden as a top 12 dynasty back last I checked. Do you even realize that Stewart has more career rushing yards and a higher career YPC than DMC? Pot, kettle, black...

 

[TheFanatic]

The massive paycut is in 2014 and 2015. It makes it clearer to me that BOTH rbs will be in Carolina for the forseeable future.

Uh, not really. He was going to get 0 dollars in 2014 and 2015 from the Panthers as they would've cut him. Now he gets paid close to $2 million each year. These aren't guaranteed baseball contracts. The only thing guaranteed is the signing bonus. Those inflated years at the end of the contract are rarely receieved by the players...

So you are saying he didn't get his salary reduced because he would have gotten cut because his salary was too high?

Here's the net effect:

• 2013 RestructureConverted $4M into "signing bonus"
  
  Reduced base from $4.75M to $850k
  
  Reduced Workout Bonus from $250k to $150k
  
  Added 2016-17 dummy years
  
• 2014 RestructureReduced base from $5.75M to $1.85M
  
  Reduced workout bonus from $250k to $150k
  
• 2015 RestructureReduced base from $6.75M to $1.85M
  
  Reduced workout bonus from $250k to $150k
  
  Added a $1 million Option Bonus
  

So it is definitely a real cut. The original salaries in 2013/2015/2015 weren't out of line with what he was being paid per year in 2011/2012. They just realized that was way more than they should be spending and dropped it. A LOT.

I really don't see how this could be construed as anything other than a pay cut to stay with the team. He was scheduled to make a lot, and now he isn't.

He was never going to get the money in that deal for this year or beyond without a pay cut. Had he not taken it and decided to test the open waters, he would've been cut. That means 0 dollars in 2013, 0 in 2014 and 0 in 2015. He would've gotten signed by another team, but I bet it would've been far less than what he restructured for.

How else do you think they get him to renegotiate? They say, "Take this lower salary or take no salary."

I hate to use a cliche, but pages 2013, 14 and 15 of that contract weren't worth the paper they were printed on...

 

[ShaHBucks]

Bummer, but I wouldn't say I thought he was a great redraft pick anyway. From a dynasty standpoint, Stewart is 4 years younger than DeAngelo. If you think they'll both have the same longevity potential, do the math. Sooner or later there should come a point where DeAngelo is washed up while Stewart is still in his prime. That's where I think we'll get the 2-3 year window of real value.

You're counting on Carolina to do something smart like use ther best weapon in the run/pass game. He has no more longterm value than Toby Gerhart right now. Death, taxes, and the Panthers love to collect running backs. Barner is there for DWill's collapse. So Is Cam Newton wanting to pretend he's superman. Enough is enough man, let Stewart go. He's beyond talented but I'm done...

 

[Coeur de Lion]

I've gone around and around w/ EBF on more than a few topics over the years here, but I'm gonna stick up for him here on Stewart (for the most part -- I personally don't think he's a fantasy buy anymore).

Stewart is a top-shelf NFL RB talent. IMO as good as anyone else this side of Peterson. Very, very few RBs would be able to keep Stewart in a RBBC -- bur unfortunately he's stuck on a team with one of them. I firmly believe that if either of these guys had been drafted by say, Baltimore, or another good team that used one RB, then we'd be talking about that guy as a potential HOFer right now.

Bottom line: anyone bashing Stewart's talent / ability is really watching a different player than the guy I've seen. Stewart has talent in spades -- too bad talent is only half of the equation in FF.

 

[Ariakis]

I took advantage of a window last year when Rotoworld was hyping Stewart I think it coincided with Spiller being hurt in a dynasty to pawn off JStew and other spare parts for Spiller and even got him to throw in Lamar Miller. That has worked out well so far.

At this point the tea leaves suggest DWill is actually the value ... JStew cannot stay healthy and they don't feature him much anyway. However if/when JStew gets hurt DWill is a solid RB2. It is ashame DWill didn't go to the Colts to help his value but Stewart is pretty much Ronnie Brown without the short-term RB1 status.

 

[Shutout]

LOL. You guys poke at EBF on this topic quite a bit and I'm sure it is nice when you're on the right side of it so far, overall, but you know he is going to make you guys eat a LOT of crow if JSTEW strings together 2-3 seasons like he gave a glimmer of a few years ago. A couple of seasons doesn't sound like a lot but with today's RBs, 2-3 top years like he flashed before are about all you can ask for and is definitely enough to give you a contending FF team for a few years.

I think many people (particularly those that drafted him early or bought him early when his value was high) are already beyond the point where ~2 good years would even make the investment break even. There was a high cost paid to acquire him unless he was bought recently and he's had years sucking up a roster spot. That's not even to mention the times where he may have actually hurt your team by passing on another RB2 or RB3 because you thought you already had that spot taken care of with Stewart or the times you started him after that month's coachspeak and got poor production in return.

Luckily, I bought Stewart fairly cheaply half way through this mess, but I can't imagine early owners would feel particularly vindicated about it if he were to provide them 2 years of good production after 6 years of sitting on him.

That's a good point. I'm like you, I bought low half-way through and only have him in one spot so its not a big deal to me like it is for somebody who ownes him all over the place and paid the price for him.

 

[Shutout]

Stewart sits comfortably at RB28 in my latest dynasty rankings, before this news.

The writing has been on the wall that DWill would remain, or Barner would get increased reps, or Tolbert, or something, for some time.

Those who continue to delude themselves that Stewart is any kind of great value, any kind of super sleeper, really need to just give it up. The Carolina organization likes their RBBC (or RQBBC counting Cam) approach, and Stewart will never have the upside it takes to be a top 12 back. Maybe the nonsensical 'undervalued' talk can finally stop. He's not undervalued, he is what he is and never will be more than the lead RB in a committee who has a ton of TDs vultured by the QB. 'Talent' doesn't win in fantasy, production does. So enough about his talent already.

The Carolina organization made DeAngelo's career after that one huge season largely fantasy-unimportant, and they will do the same to Stew for as long as he's in the NFL. He's 26 when this season starts. Then 27 the next year when the Stew backers are again somehow surprised he's sharing. Then 28 the next year when Stew backers are again surprised he's sharing. And on and on until he's no longer relevant.

Then 98% of the time spent by the majority of staff and FF players is spent in the wrong place. Talent absolutely DOES win championships. Its why people who have drafted ADP, FITZ, Manning, Calvin, etc, have teams that are contenders each and every year. The opportunity side of it is significant and, in this case, is abnormally Large.

I get the general level of frustration of people talking this topic ad naseum, but I would never say "talent doesn't win in FF". If that is true, then every person making a ranking, watching a combine or a game, talking about catches, runs, throws, BMIs, height, weight, armspan, short-shuttles, and all the rest are doing it wrong.

 

[Concept Coop]

Then 98% of the time spent by the majority of staff and FF players is spent in the wrong place. Talent absolutely DOES win championships. Its why people who have drafted ADP, FITZ, Manning, Calvin, etc, have teams that are contenders each and every year. The opportunity side of it is significant and, in this case, is abnormally Large.

I get the general level of frustration of people talking this topic ad naseum, but I would never say "talent doesn't win in FF". If that is true, then every person making a ranking, watching a combine or a game, talking about catches, runs, throws, BMIs, height, weight, armspan, short-shuttles, and all the rest are doing it wrong.

Talent wins if it translates to production, just like any other factor. But, production is what your leagues host site translates into points.

 

[LawFitz]

The OP made no mention of his 2014-15 salary adjustments, just 2013, where he is NOT receiving a pay cut. That said, 2014-15 clearly indicate a mutual reduction in pay, which tells me Williams is happy to play second fiddle and get paid like it in those years. For you committee loathers, this definitely makes it much more likely that he stays with the team for the rest of the deal.

Separately, it's funny to read EBG constantly trash McFadden for lack of durability and yet always stick to his guns with JStew's elite potential being ready to break out at any moment. Style wise the two are night and day, but their talent and durability profiles are pretty much the same - elite and crap.

 

[squistion]

Sooner or later there should come a point where DeAngelo is washed up while Stewart is still in his prime. That's where I think we'll get the 2-3 year window of real value.

Sweet Lord... seriously?

First, I disagree with the 'still in his prime' point. Next year he's 27, and with his history of little leg injuries, I'd argue he'll already be past his prime.

Second, don't you realize once Williams is gone they will draft the next RB to take carries, who will be as likely as not to relegate Stewart to minority RBBC share?

I don't know of any nice way to say this -- your Stewart obsession has become ridiculous, and frankly, you're losing overall credibility over it. We all miss on our predictions, but we need to recognize when we've missed and adjust and move forward.

Stewart and Williams have both suffered from being stuck on the same franchise. I think if you had put either of these guys in a situation where he had a real chance to be the every down back for a team, you would've gotten a great career. In terms of pure talent I rate these guys on par with the top 5-10 backs in the league. The difference between them and the likes McCoy, Gore, S Jackson, and Lynch is opportunity.

I don't have an obsession with Stewart. I just recognize him for what he is. A very good back. Top 15 overall draft pick with very rare tools. He's been very productive throughout his career when given opportunities and he really thrived in the one year where he was given a significant workload. I don't agree that he'll be resigned to a RBBC once Williams fades because I think there are only 1-2 backs in the average draft class who have enough talent to cut into his carries. The odds of Carolina getting one of those players in the next few years are fairly slim.

The irony of your post is pretty hilarious. You take me task for being optimistic about Stewart while at the same time ranking McFadden as a top 12 dynasty back last I checked. Do you even realize that Stewart has more career rushing yards and a higher career YPC than DMC? Pot, kettle, black...

Perhaps not as hilarious as your pointing to McFadden, another player that you have been obsessed with, to the point of reaching almost demented proportions at times.

 

[TheFanatic]

Stewart sits comfortably at RB28 in my latest dynasty rankings, before this news.

The writing has been on the wall that DWill would remain, or Barner would get increased reps, or Tolbert, or something, for some time.

Those who continue to delude themselves that Stewart is any kind of great value, any kind of super sleeper, really need to just give it up. The Carolina organization likes their RBBC (or RQBBC counting Cam) approach, and Stewart will never have the upside it takes to be a top 12 back. Maybe the nonsensical 'undervalued' talk can finally stop. He's not undervalued, he is what he is and never will be more than the lead RB in a committee who has a ton of TDs vultured by the QB. 'Talent' doesn't win in fantasy, production does. So enough about his talent already.

The Carolina organization made DeAngelo's career after that one huge season largely fantasy-unimportant, and they will do the same to Stew for as long as he's in the NFL. He's 26 when this season starts. Then 27 the next year when the Stew backers are again somehow surprised he's sharing. Then 28 the next year when Stew backers are again surprised he's sharing. And on and on until he's no longer relevant.

Then 98% of the time spent by the majority of staff and FF players is spent in the wrong place. Talent absolutely DOES win championships. Its why people who have drafted ADP, FITZ, Manning, Calvin, etc, have teams that are contenders each and every year. The opportunity side of it is significant and, in this case, is abnormally Large.

I get the general level of frustration of people talking this topic ad naseum, but I would never say "talent doesn't win in FF". If that is true, then every person making a ranking, watching a combine or a game, talking about catches, runs, throws, BMIs, height, weight, armspan, short-shuttles, and all the rest are doing it wrong.

That's not entirely true. Addai wasn't very talented but in PPR's he was a great player.

Reggie Bush was the second player picked in the draft and yet he sucked donkey balls in New Orleans. He showed later on that he had some talent, but in New Orleans, he sucked. He became good running on grass over turf?

LaGarett Blount had a 1,000 yard rushing season in like 11 games. How talented is he?

David Wilson looks to have mad, mad, mad skills. How many carries did that translate to last year?

Spiller is uber talented. Couldn't beat out a journeyman for two seasons.

Donovan McNabb took a team to five NFC Championship games. Then somehow forgot how to play football

At one point Marc Bulger was one of the most accurate QB's in NFL history and then he forgot how to play QB

Kurt Warner took the Rams to two Super Bowls and won one of them. Then was cast off and played backup to Eli Manning.

Opportunity, play calling, injury, scheme, all play a HUGE part in fantasy and pro football.