Democrats And Education - Matt Taibbi (1 Viewer)

[djmich]

I would like to see every kid be treated with respect.  I was told this wasn't going to happen.  But this IS whats happening.  My family is seeing it firsthand......and we're seeing our daughter's self esteem get trashed.......as is the way of our country, the pendulum always swings too far the other way. 

Not sure how anyone can defend this wanna be CRT junk and the politicking over race today as not going to be divisive and lead to this.

Its like they haven’t spent any time with humans.

 

[Philo Beddoe]

That fact that you don't know means you need to check your privilege, Philo.  

Im still trying to find it 

 

[Philo Beddoe]

ACLU

“Curriculum transparency bills are just thinly veiled attempts at chilling teachers and students from learning and talking about race and gender in schools.”

ACLU 2022 - Government transparency is the enemy of civil liberties. 

 

[Boston]

This guy sounds like a peach...

https://www.foxnews.com/us/pennsylvania-school-board-member-tells-parents-i-dont-work-for-you

 

[KarmaPolice]

It's not a coincidence that most of these CRT/race articles linked are from Fox, is it? 

 

[James Daulton]

It's not a coincidence that most of these CRT/race articles linked are from Fox, is it? 

Purely a coincidence.  Also as has been admitted in the woke thread, CRT is nothing but a scare tactic for conservatives.  Just like how whites are being discriminated against. 

 

[djmich]

It's not a coincidence that most of these CRT/race articles linked are from Fox, is it? 

As much of a coincidence that they aren't from NYT or CNN

 

[FairWarning]

It's not a coincidence that most of these CRT/race articles linked are from Fox, is it? 

Do you think CNN is covering it?   I guess it’s a case of give em what they want.  I looked at different sites yesterday and CNN didn’t mention the NYC cop that was killed.  Fox and NBC had it as a lead story.  

 

[KarmaPolice]

As much of a coincidence that they aren't from NYT or CNN

That's also fair.  aka, there's few reasonable balanced takes on this out there.  

I just chuckle the few times someone has link Fox and I poke around just how many articles I see about CRT, race, and trans athletes.   They aren't dumb and know what the triggers are for sure.  

 

[KarmaPolice]

Do you think CNN is covering it?   I guess it’s a case of give em what they want.  I looked at different sites yesterday and CNN didn’t mention the NYC cop that was killed.  Fox and NBC had it as a lead story.  

I wouldn't know, but I'd guess not or definitely not nearly as much.   

 

[djmich]

That's also fair.  aka, there's few reasonable balanced takes on this out there.  

I just chuckle the few times someone has link Fox and I poke around just how many articles I see about CRT, race, and trans athletes.   They aren't dumb and know what the triggers are for sure.  

No doubt.

But, do you agree with the approach for example of bingo privilege?  Do you not think we should have awareness that this sort of "education" is being adopted within our schools?  Are people wrong to be upset?

 

[FairWarning]

Purely a coincidence.  Also as has been admitted in the woke thread, CRT is nothing but a scare tactic for conservatives.  Just like how whites are being discriminated against. 

My brother is a history/civics teacher  (very liberal also), and says this is a bunch of crap to teach kids.  

 

[FairWarning]

I wouldn't know, but I'd guess not or definitely not nearly as much.   

You don’t know if CNN is covering it, but you know Fox is?  Should CNN cover it?  What determines what each network covers?  They pander to their audience, no?

 

[James Daulton]

My brother is a history/civics teacher  (very liberal also), and says this is a bunch of crap to teach kids.  

So a CRT curriculum is being taught in his school?  Can I ask what the lessons were?

 

[James Daulton]

As much of a coincidence that they aren't from NYT or CNN

When did the NYT get lumped in as liberal as CNN?  I don't recall anyone ever saying this pre-Trump.

 

[FairWarning]

So a CRT curriculum is being taught in his school?  Can I ask what the lessons were?

No idea, he’s two hours away.  It really doesn’t matter what they are.  Shouldn’t a 20-year teacher know what is best for his students?

 

[FairWarning]

When did the NYT get lumped in as liberal as CNN?  I don't recall anyone ever saying this pre-Trump.

Because it wasn’t as obvious.  When the majority of the Sunday front pages were an obsession with him, it’s an issue.  The same media treats the last year with kid gloves.  

 

[James Daulton]

Because it wasn’t as obvious.  When the majority of the Sunday front pages were an obsession with him, it’s an issue.  The same media treats the last year with kid gloves.  

So pre-Trump, no liberal bias for the NYT.  Now they are as slanted as CNN?  Sorry,  don't buy it.  Trump was uniquely horrible to a large portion of the country.  Their coverage being almost negative was self induced by Trump.

And Biden has been excoriated over the last year by all news networks.  Hell they post his lousy polls all the time and talk about how the dems are going to get wiped out in the mid terms.  

 

[djmich]

When did the NYT get lumped in as liberal as CNN?  I don't recall anyone ever saying this pre-Trump.

You drew a conclusion that has no basis from what I wrote.  I was referring to two left news/media sources, not saying they occupy the same exact spot in the liberal spectrum.

Now if you want my opinion, my first reaction is that the output of what CNN produces is left of NYT.  The actual people working at both organizations that drive what gets published as news...I dunno they may be equally left.

 

[James Daulton]

You drew a conclusion that has no basis from what I wrote.  I was referring to two left news/media sources, not saying they occupy the same exact spot in the liberal spectrum.

Now if you want my opinion, my first reaction is that the output of what CNN produces is left of NYT.  The actual people working at both organizations that drive what gets published as news...I dunno they may be equally left.

Well why give the NYT as an example of something left?  I get sites like Huffington Post, but the NYT is a storied paper that only came under attack because Trump attacked it.

 

[djmich]

Well why give the NYT as an example of something left?  I get sites like Huffington Post, but the NYT is a storied paper that only came under attack because Trump attacked it.

This is a really weird rabbit hole.  I don't understand why you think providing the NYT of an example of left leaning bias in the media is wrong?  I mean don't you guys love that allsides media bias chart.

If anything including outlets across the left leaning spectrum would help substantiate how suppressed the topic is for any newsmedia left of center.

 

[Boston]

It's not a coincidence that most of these CRT/race articles linked are from Fox, is it? 

Not at all...I would be shocked if anyone from the mainstream media covered this.

 

[KarmaPolice]

No doubt.

But, do you agree with the approach for example of bingo privilege?  Do you not think we should have awareness that this sort of "education" is being adopted within our schools?  Are people wrong to be upset?

I already said that was a stupid way to address that.  

 

[KarmaPolice]

You don’t know if CNN is covering it, but you know Fox is?  Should CNN cover it?  What determines what each network covers?  They pander to their audience, no?

Yes.  I very rarely click on much outside of my core sites for news. 

If I click on something, I will sometimes poke around a site to see what else is on there.  Can't remember the last time I was on CNN, but I've read a couple articles linked to Fox, poked around, and noticed the big % of attention on those topics.  

I can't think of anything outside of complete trash that and outlet shouldn't cover.  of course they pander, so of course it makes sense Fox would hammer it.  

 

[djmich]

I already said that was a stupid way to address that.  

Right, and I think we're agreed that you'd never know about this stupid thing being taught in our schools if it was up to the liberal news media.  I don't watch foxnews or read the website, I think they are over the top and looking to sell anger and fear.

But I have to acknowledge that they and others like them report on many things (not just this) that would not otherwise be reported and suppressed.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Not at all...I would be shocked if anyone from the mainstream media covered this.

  Fox isn't MSM? 

 

[James Daulton]

This is a really weird rabbit hole.  I don't understand why you think providing the NYT of an example of left leaning bias in the media is wrong?  I mean don't you guys love that allsides media bias chart.

If anything including outlets across the left leaning spectrum would help substantiate how suppressed the topic is for any newsmedia left of center.

I'm just saying lumping the NYT in with CNN is silly.  Heck they're not in the same group on the media bias chart.  It's be like saying the Washing Times is the same as conservativetreehouse.com

That was my point, not that it's not left leaning.  And by the looks of that chart there are tons of conservative sites.

 

[Boston]

Fox isn't MSM? 

Sorry...wasn't clear...I don't expect too many MSM outlets outside of Fox to cover it.

 

[FairWarning]

So pre-Trump, no liberal bias for the NYT.  Now they are as slanted as CNN?  Sorry,  don't buy it.  Trump was uniquely horrible to a large portion of the country.  Their coverage being almost negative was self induced by Trump.

And Biden has been excoriated over the last year by all news networks.  Hell they post his lousy polls all the time and talk about how the dems are going to get wiped out in the mid terms.  

There was one before Trump, but not like when he was in office.  Remember the opinion piece from Tom Cotton that got their staff all up in arms and forced the paper to print an apology?  
 

The heat hasn’t really been on Biden until the last month- 10 months too late.  

 

[FairWarning]

James - do you think CRT should be taught in rural schools? If so, why?

 

[KarmaPolice]

James - do you think CRT should be taught in rural schools? If so, why?

You didn't ask me, but I am at home sick and a bit bored, so...    

My first question when I read that was if you think there should be different things taught at rural vs. urban schools.  I just thought the inclusion of rural was interesting.   

IMO the discussion in the 2-3 threads this morning that all seemed to revolve around this was a perfect example of what I think is going on.   There was the link the other day about privilege bingo.   Steady had the example of his kid's assignment on what things you agree with BLM about.     As they were presented, I would say no - both those are wrong.  Where it gets difficult is that IMO neither were at their core bad concepts to have in HS, they were just presented in really bad and decisive ways.   Like was posted about the bingo thing, it could easily be a discussion about people's different backgrounds and struggles - it doesn't need to be a simplistic bingo game.   In Steady's example BLM and the protests were big news last year, so I don't doubt there were discussions or assignments about it.   However, it's dumb and adds division if the assignment is "list 3 things you agree with BLM about".  The topic could be assigned and framed in a way that allows for opinions or more like "what events were the BLM protests about?"   

Like so much in the age of SM and clickbait news - there is no nuance.  Instead of jumping to those examples = CRT = storm the school board in protest we should be able to ask those questions - are the core ideas bad or just presented badly?, because a few teachers presents them badly, should we do away with teaching these things? , etc?     Like has been said in these threads a bit, we need to be better at looking at each case and going from there.  

 

[FairWarning]

You didn't ask me, but I am at home sick and a bit bored, so...    

My first question when I read that was if you think there should be different things taught at rural vs. urban schools.  I just thought the inclusion of rural was interesting.   

IMO the discussion in the 2-3 threads this morning that all seemed to revolve around this was a perfect example of what I think is going on.   There was the link the other day about privilege bingo.   Steady had the example of his kid's assignment on what things you agree with BLM about.     As they were presented, I would say no - both those are wrong.  Where it gets difficult is that IMO neither were at their core bad concepts to have in HS, they were just presented in really bad and decisive ways.   Like was posted about the bingo thing, it could easily be a discussion about people's different backgrounds and struggles - it doesn't need to be a simplistic bingo game.   In Steady's example BLM and the protests were big news last year, so I don't doubt there were discussions or assignments about it.   However, it's dumb and adds division if the assignment is "list 3 things you agree with BLM about".  The topic could be assigned and framed in a way that allows for opinions or more like "what events were the BLM protests about?"   

Like so much in the age of SM and clickbait news - there is no nuance.  Instead of jumping to those examples = CRT = storm the school board in protest we should be able to ask those questions - are the core ideas bad or just presented badly?, because a few teachers presents them badly, should we do away with teaching these things? , etc?     Like has been said in these threads a bit, we need to be better at looking at each case and going from there.  

I think schools should gear their curriculum to the students.  Now I’m sure my brother did bring up that in current events, but he’s not teaching  some white guilt BS.  You have to remember it’s a rural school, mainly whites with a few migrants.  Do the inner city schools teach white issues?  Doubtful and I wouldn’t expect them to.  If they want to teach white guilt topics, then they are doing a poor job.  

 

[KarmaPolice]

I think schools should gear their curriculum to the students.  Now I’m sure my brother did bring up that in current events, but he’s not teaching  some white guilt BS.  You have to remember it’s a rural school, mainly whites with a few migrants.  Do the inner city schools teach white issues?  Doubtful and I wouldn’t expect them to.  If they want to teach white guilt topics, then they are doing a poor job.  

I guess I don't agree here.   Again, none of this requires the "white guilt b.s ".   

I would argue that it might even be more important to bring current events from other perspectives to those areas where you might go your whole life without meeting people outside your box, instead of catering to that box.  

 

[FairWarning]

I guess I don't agree here.   Again, none of this requires the "white guilt b.s ".   

I would argue that it might even be more important to bring current events from other perspectives to those areas where you might go your whole life without meeting people outside your box, instead of catering to that box.  

I’m sure he does to an extent.  I’m sure some administration in different districts want more - like the white guilt BS.  It’s becoming a big issue in Michigan now.  This will be another issue that D’s will lose on, like in Maryland.  

 

[KarmaPolice]

I’m sure he does to an extent.  I’m sure some administration in different districts want more - like the white guilt BS.  It’s becoming a big issue in Michigan now.  This will be another issue that D’s will lose on, like in Maryland.  

I'm sure it will be.  I've said in a few posts I think the Ds are underestimating this and it's a priority for a ton of people.  

What specifically do you mean by the bolded? 

 

[FairWarning]

I'm sure it will be.  I've said in a few posts I think the Ds are underestimating this and it's a priority for a ton of people.  

What specifically do you mean by the bolded? 

There is starting to be more pushback on this and some anti CRT legislation to be drawn up.  It’ll probably get worse before better in this state.  Education is always a hotbutton topic here because of charter schools and Betsy DeVos.

 

[Rich Conway]

No idea, he’s two hours away.  It really doesn’t matter what they are.  Shouldn’t a 20-year teacher know what is best for his students?

Aren't all the recent state laws banning CRT suggesting the exact opposite of this?

 

[FairWarning]

Aren't all the recent state laws banning CRT suggesting the exact opposite of this?

 if inner city Detroit wants to teach it, let them.  It would be appropriate there, correct?   Why are schools pressured one way or the other on it?

 

[massraider]

 if inner city Detroit wants to teach it, let them.  It would be appropriate there, correct?   Why are schools pressured one way or the other on it?

Love to find out which school district is pressuring their staff to include CRT. 

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Love to find out which school district is pressuring their staff to include CRT. 

Probably just about all of them, if we rephrase things slightly to say "include pedagogy informed by CRT."  But you knew that of course.

 

[rockaction]

This reminds me of the gender studies/African-American studies/Marxian studies that started in the late eighties at colleges and was ongoing through the nineties.

It's odd how a transformation of the educational mission, its tenets and its goals -- its ultimate aim -- is so forcefully argued for and implemented while at the same time we hear "nobody in here but us chickens in the chicken coop" as if it were completely natural to overhaul curriculum and educational goals and to object to it a sign of a laggard mind. 

Back then it worked. It just marched through the universities and is now an expected part of the curriculum in the name of diversity. Back then, people were accusing its proponents of smuggling leftism through the door in the form of identity politics. The blowback by its proponents was to feign ignorance and say "nothing to fear." Just making sure lived experiences are important as one integrates texts (the word for books) into their lives. No leftism here. Of course, the takeaway was always leftist, always transformational. It never ended. In fact, it got worse. 

It's befuddling how this constantly happens. The left advocates for radical change, and when met with opposition, hysterically asks "What's your problem? Why you object so much? Huh? Huh?" And then smuggles whatever sort of agenda they have through the door of diversity and other rubric. 

It's sort of become a sad, sick joke. 

 

[The Commish]

James - do you think CRT should be taught in rural schools? If so, why?

You didn't ask me, but I'll answer.  Actual CRT does not belong in Elementary or Middle Schools.  Whether "rural" or otherwise is completely out of the equation for me...doesn't matter, across the board.  Of course there is a TON of stuff that's being included as CRT that isn't actual CRT and a lot of it SHOULD be taught in all schools, rural or not, but isn't because it's labeled "CRT".  That's a problem IMO.

 

[Boston]

This reminds me of the gender studies/African-American studies/Marxian studies that started in the late eighties at colleges and was ongoing through the nineties.

It's odd how a transformation of the educational mission, its tenets and its goals -- its ultimate aim -- is so forcefully argued for and implemented while at the same time we hear "nobody in here but us chickens in the chicken coop" as if it were completely natural to overhaul curriculum and educational goals and to object to it a sign of a laggard mind. 

Back then it worked. It just marched through the universities and is now an expected part of the curriculum in the name of diversity. Back then, people were accusing its proponents of smuggling leftism through the door in the form of identity politics. The blowback by its proponents was to feign ignorance and say "nothing to fear." Just making sure lived experiences are important as one integrates texts (the word for books) into their lives. No leftism here. Of course, the takeaway was always leftist, always transformational. It never ended. In fact, it got worse. 

It's befuddling how this constantly happens. The left advocates for radical change, and when met with opposition, hysterically asks "What's your problem? Why you object so much? Huh? Huh?" And then smuggles whatever sort of agenda they have through the door of diversity and other rubric. 

It's sort of become a sad, sick joke. 

One of the best posts I have seen in quite some time!

 

[FairWarning]

You didn't ask me, but I'll answer.  Actual CRT does not belong in Elementary or Middle Schools.  Whether "rural" or otherwise is completely out of the equation for me...doesn't matter, across the board.  Of course there is a TON of stuff that's being included as CRT that isn't actual CRT and a lot of it SHOULD be taught in all schools, rural or not, but isn't because it's labeled "CRT".  That's a problem IMO.

What part of the 1619 project do you think should be taught?  There is black history taught now everywhere.  The problem is the fringe on both sides get too big a voice. 

 

[FairWarning]

Love to find out which school district is pressuring their staff to include CRT. 

It seemed to be all the rage last year everywhere you looked.  If It wasn’t, schools would look to legislate it or ban it.

 

[The Commish]

You didn't ask me, but I'll answer.  Actual CRT does not belong in Elementary or Middle Schools.  Whether "rural" or otherwise is completely out of the equation for me...doesn't matter, across the board.  Of course there is a TON of stuff that's being included as CRT that isn't actual CRT and a lot of it SHOULD be taught in all schools, rural or not, but isn't because it's labeled "CRT".  That's a problem IMO.

What part of the 1619 project do you think should be taught?  There is black history taught now everywhere.  The problem is the fringe on both sides get too big a voice. 

Please read what I said....

 

[FairWarning]

Please read what I said....

I did - what part of it should be taught to HS?

 

[The Commish]

I did - what part of it should be taught to HS?

When you say "should be taught" I read that as required curriculum.  Is that what you mean?  Want to make sure I'm on your page.

 

[FairWarning]

When you say "should be taught" I read that as required curriculum.  Is that what you mean?  Want to make sure I'm on your page.

You think that it should be taught, I think it should be the school’s choice. What part of it do you feel should be taught?  
 

 

[The Commish]

You think that it should be taught, I think it should be the school’s choice. What part of it do you feel should be taught?  
 

You didn't answer my question and I never said the bold.  You're putting words in my mouth for whatever reason.  I think HS is an appropriate place to bring up any number of topics under the umbrella of CRT...especially the self reflection/awareness topics.  I have zero problem with it being an elective that kids choose to take.  I don't think any school should be forced to offer it or be forced not to offer it if they want.