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Democrats Done Grappling - Credible rape Allegation Propels Fairfax to run for Governor (1 Viewer)

IvanKaramazov said:
If this accusation is true, then obviously the guy should go.

That said, I have a hard time getting worked up over the misdeeds of a lieutenant governor of a state that I don't live in.  I can't bring myself to care about this story much.  
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Sometimes what happens is a NYC or DC area story is purely local politics, but because it's reported in WaPo or NYT it becomes a national story. But you're right, it's not, it's still a local story. 

 
Weird thread.

Every Dem here or in the media that I have seen thinks this should be investigated and, if found to be credible, the Lt. Gov should step down immediately. 

And then the law can have him.

 
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Bottomfeeder Sports said:
Except for the "We believe" statement these are all run of the mill variations of "no comment".  They are "avoiding the topic" as I said.    So only John Edwards' comment was dismissive of the claim. 
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I dont understand your replies then.

Here was my statement. 

I do think it is fair to discuss how VA democrats are trying to keep this at arms length, so much so that even huff post called them out. 

 
whoknew said:
Weird thread.

Every Dem here or in the media that I have seen thinks this should be investigated and, if found to be credible, the Lt. Gov should step down immediately. 

And then the law can have him.
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correct....kinda hard to do "both sides" shtick with reality though, so we have this thread.

 
parasaurolophus said:
I dont understand your replies then.

Here was my statement. 

I do think it is fair to discuss how VA democrats are trying to keep this at arms length, so much so that even huff post called them out. 
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I can't speak for BFS, but when I read it, it read as if you were saying this was the general approach by the dems in VA.  While it's some, there are plenty that are acknowledging this is an issue and needs to be investigated and handled with the seriousness it's due.  I think an analysis and qualifier are appropriate here.  We seem to have some who have played "dodge the question" in political speak and many who have acknowledged the issue for what it is.  The comments from the large group spokespeople have all said it needs to be handled and treated seriously.

 
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The Commish said:
I can't speak for BFS, but when I read it, it read as if you were saying this was the general approach by the dems in VA.  While it's some, there are plenty that are acknowledging this is an issue and needs to be investigated and handled with the seriousness it's due.  I think an analysis and qualifier are appropriate here.  We seem to have some who have played "dodge the question" in political speak and many who have acknowledged the issue for what it is.  The comments from the large group spokespeople have all said it needs to be handled and treated seriously.
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When asked individually almost every reply was avoidance or deflection. I find that discussion worthy. Clearly i am not the only one that found it a little odd since a very left leaning site pointed it out. 

I think posters here being meh about it makes sense since as adonis pointed out it is a lt gvr in VA. 

 
Just so my spreadsheet is accurate:  Jon_mx's thoughts on sexual assault allegations:

Brett Kavanaugh- 1 woman.  No way in hell he did this.  Just politics. He's a good egg

Donald Trump- 20 separate women have accused him of inappropriate sexual advances-  No way. That's just Hillary-lovers trying to bring down a good man.

Justin Fairfax (D)- 1 woman. 0 collaborating witnesses.- He obviously did it. Why are the Dems trying to cover it up. And why is fake media-Washington Post in on it?%#^()@?

 
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squistion said:
Indeed, 20 women going public, on the record and accusing Trump and none of them are believable, yet the unsubstantiated and uncorroborated allegation of a one woman who remains anonymous is a credible allegation of rape. Go figure.
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It's almost- and work with me here- like he makes up his mind depending on what letter is in the parenthesis after their name. Hmmmm

 
parasaurolophus said:
When asked individually almost every reply was avoidance or deflection. I find that discussion worthy. Clearly i am not the only one that found it a little odd since a very left leaning site pointed it out. 

I think posters here being meh about it makes sense since as adonis pointed out it is a lt gvr in VA. 
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Fair enough...I personally think posters being "meh" about it is because this is SOP when people are singled out not because of the individual.  I guess it's just a matter of perspective.  In this day and age, the last thing they want to do is comment and have it taken out of context.  

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
I pointed this out in the other thread, but this comp doesn't hold. 

Ford wrote a letter to her Congresswoman, who gave it to her Senator. It was held for 2 months. Then Feinstein released it. Then there was controversy for another month. Then Ford testified, under oath, and so did Kavanaugh, and then actual credibility determinations could be made. 

Right now you've got a snip of a private Facebook post, maybe shared without permission, and a WaPo self-report where they explain why they did not report on the claim yet still did not do a full report on the claim. The accuser has not come forward. That ain't gonna remove any politician from office from Rhode Island to Alaska, R or D.
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The accuser has come forward and she is a well respected professor.  

 
jon_mx said:
The accuser has come forward and she is a well respected professor.  
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Where, when? I mean outside the WaPo story and the private Facebook post (via a shared snip from someone else).

- eta - yep you're right, I see she has come forward.

 
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I've made my feelings about Fairfax quite clear in the Northam thread. But I said when this story first broke that there seemed to be a certain type of conservative that didn't actually care about the underlying charge of sexual assault and viewed the story solely through the cynical political angle of criticizing liberal hypocrisy. Nothing I've seen since then, in either thread, has disabused me of that notion.

 
Da Guru said:
After him??
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The speaker of the House of Delegates. As @whoknew pointed out in the Northam thread, a Republican holds the job because the decisive legislative race in 2017 finished in a literal tie, and they had to draw lots to decide the winner.

We are through the looking glass, people ...

 
zftcg said:
The speaker of the House of Delegates. As @whoknew pointed out in the Northam thread, a Republican holds the job because the decisive legislative race in 2017 finished in a literal tie, and they had to draw lots to decide the winner.

We are through the looking glass, people ...
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What's in his yearbook?  

 
jomar said:
Pence.  as far as VA, I don't know

eta:  that's right, you're only talking about guys with a D after their name being held to account
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I am not holding anyone accountable. Just asked who is next in line.

 
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jomar said:
so when you ask 'who is the next man up?', you're not implying this guy should step down because of the allegations and the next man up should take his place?
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I never said he should step down.

Have you followed this thread at all??   Everybody is saying he must step down and I just asked who is next man up?

 
Da Guru said:
I never said he should step down.

Have you followed this thread at all??   Everybody is saying he must step down and I just asked who is next man up?
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you responded to an article about this woman coming forward with 'Yikes....who is the next man up?'.  True, you never typed that 'he should step down' but its certainly implied.  I never said you said he should step down, but I'm trying to get where you stand on the issue of people in the public eye accused of sexual assault or worse and have credible accusations against them.  

so I'm asking you, should politicians and other public officials step down when credible allegations come out against them?  they don't need to be proven in a court of law, just credible enough where you think to yourself 'there's a decent chance this guy did this'.  because that's enough for me, R or D.   all of them should step down from our POTUS to this VA guy if this lady is credible and has some sort of corroboration

 
squistion said:
None. All Democratic state leaders have called for him to step down except Justin Fairfax, and being Northam's successor, he is really in not any position to go there without looking opportunistic.
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Yeah, it would be pretty weird if Justin Fairfax called on Justin Fairfax to step down. 

 
jomar said:
you responded to an article about this woman coming forward with 'Yikes....who is the next man up?'.  True, you never typed that 'he should step down' but its certainly implied.  I never said you said he should step down, but I'm trying to get where you stand on the issue of people in the public eye accused of sexual assault or worse and have credible accusations against them.  

so I'm asking you, should politicians and other public officials step down when credible allegations come out against them?  they don't need to be proven in a court of law, just credible enough where you think to yourself 'there's a decent chance this guy did this'.  because that's enough for me, R or D.   all of them should step down from our POTUS to this VA guy if this lady is credible and has some sort of corroboration
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That is not up for me to decide.

The "yikes" was getting that attorney knowing now the gloves are off and it is going to get ugly.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
If this accusation is true, then obviously the guy should go.

That said, I have a hard time getting worked up over the misdeeds of a lieutenant governor of a state that I don't live in.  I can't bring myself to care about this story much.  
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If the governor has to resign over the blackface photos from his medical school yearbook, he'll be governor.  That's important enough.  And this story is credible.

Maybe it's because I'm not a Democrat, but I don't see what there is to grapple with on this.  

 
Da Guru said:
I never said he should step down.

Have you followed this thread at all??   Everybody is saying he must step down and I just asked who is next man up?
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Attorney General Mark Herring.

Edit: and he's already running for governor in the same party in 2021. Seems natural.

 
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Henry Ford said:
If the governor has to resign over the blackface photos from his medical school yearbook, he'll be governor.  That's important enough.  And this story is credible.

Maybe it's because I'm not a Democrat, but I don't see what there is to grapple with on this.  
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It is the title of the article.  I think it is more of a self-grappling, kind of like mastergrabbling. 

 
timschochet said:
As as I pointed out in the other thread, double standards are the most predictable aspect of politics and the most boring to talk about. 
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I don't think double standards are boring or unimportant. They should be highlighted.

But they have to consist of specific contrary statements by specific people. Not vague attributions to "the left."

If someone wants to make a charge of hypocrisy, he should do some investigative work and uncover some genuine hypocrisy. Don't just wave your hands without actually quoting anybody.

 
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jon_mx said:
More whataboutisms.   
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Nope.  I think all 3 of these clowns in VA should go, but frankly it's not atop my list of political concerns because I don't live in VA.  I thought Franken should step down and I thought Kavanaugh should have been unanimously rejected.  I haven't really wanted to comment on Fairfax because the initial reporting seemed like a dodgy source, but as more comes out I believe the accuser.

Excuse me if I find your (and others') outrage to be in bad faith after all the disgusting things that were said in the Kavanaugh thread and being dismissive of the 20+ sexual assault allegations against a self-admitted sexual assaulter.

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
I don't think double standards are boring or unimportant. They should be highlighted.

But they have to consist of specific contrary statements by specific people. Not vague attributions to "the left."

If someone wants to make a charge of hypocrisy, he should do some investigative work and uncover some genuine hypocrisy. Don't just wave your hands without actually quoting anybody.
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Like all the Democrats on the Senate Judiciary Committee calling for Trump to pull Kavanaugh's nomination and casting doubt on his denial before any investigation or hearing?  Asking for investigation is a reasonable response and not hypocritic, suggesting he resigns and casting serious doubt on his story is jumping to conclusions based on political bias/wishful thinking.   In this case, it is a let's wait and see tactic.  

Top Democrats pushed for President Donald Trump to withdraw the nomination of his Supreme Court choice Brett Kavanaugh after the latest explosive allegations against the judge.

In a letter to Trump dated Wednesday, all Democrats on the Senate Judiciary Committee urged the president to pull the appeals judge's nomination or "direct the FBI to re-open its background investigation" to examine accusations of sexual misconduct. The members of the panel, which oversees judicial nominations, argued that the claims against Kavanaugh are more than enough "to trigger a meaningful nonpartisan investigation."

"The standard of character and fitness for a position on the nation's highest court must be higher than this," the Democrats wrote. "Judge Kavanaugh has staunchly declared his respect for women and issued blanket denials of any possible misconduct, but those declarations are in serious doubt."

"We therefore ask that you immediately direct an FBI investigation or withdraw this nomination," read the letter, signed by committee ranking member Sen. Dianne Feinstein of California, Sen. Patrick Leahy of Vermont, Sen. **** Durbin of Illinois, Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island, Sen. Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota, Sen. Chris Coons of Delaware, Sen. Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut, Sen. Mazie Hirono of Hawaii, Sen. Cory Booker of New Jersey and Sen. Kamala Harris of California.
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Da Guru said:
That is not up for me to decide.

The "yikes" was getting that attorney knowing now the gloves are off and it is going to get ugly.
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:lol:   if you don't want to tell us where you stand, just say I don't want to answer.  Its up to all of us to decide, at the ballot box if necessary.  

 
jon_mx said:
The point is that the media and the fine folks in here only get worked up when the sexual assault is by someone on the right.  It is called politics and illustrates much of the outrage is phony.  
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This is an extremely dickish thing to say. Quite disappointing really. 

 
Dickies said:
Nope.  I think all 3 of these clowns in VA should go, but frankly it's not atop my list of political concerns because I don't live in VA.  I thought Franken should step down and I thought Kavanaugh should have been unanimously rejected.  I haven't really wanted to comment on Fairfax because the initial reporting seemed like a dodgy source, but as more comes out I believe the accuser.

Excuse me if I find your (and others') outrage to be in bad faith after all the disgusting things that were said in the Kavanaugh thread and being dismissive of the 20+ sexual assault allegations against a self-admitted sexual assaulter.
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You think I am outraged?  Not at all.  The only one of the three I see in trouble will be Fairfax.  Kavanaugh was too political.   If you are referring to Trump, he should go away, but that is not happening.  

 
I hope this matter gets investigated and he is held accountable if the allegations are true. Criminally charged if the statute of limitations hasn’t run. 

 
jon_mx said:
Like all the Democrats on the Senate Judiciary Committee calling for Trump to pull Kavanaugh's nomination and casting doubt on his denial before any investigation or hearing?  Asking for investigation is a reasonable response and not hypocritic, suggesting he resigns and casting serious doubt on his story is jumping to conclusions based on political bias/wishful thinking.   In this case, it is a let's wait and see tactic.  
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The letter you quoted from in your post asked for an investigation.

 
jon_mx said:
You think I am outraged?  Not at all.  The only one of the three I see in trouble will be Fairfax.  Kavanaugh was too political.   If you are referring to Trump, he should go away, but that is not happening.  
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Sorry, should not have singled you out, but I can't comprehend why you think Kavanaugh was "too political".

 
jon_mx said:
Like all the Democrats on the Senate Judiciary Committee calling for Trump to pull Kavanaugh's nomination and casting doubt on his denial before any investigation or hearing?  Asking for investigation is a reasonable response and not hypocritic, suggesting he resigns and casting serious doubt on his story is jumping to conclusions based on political bias/wishful thinking.   In this case, it is a let's wait and see tactic.  

jon_mx said:
In a letter to Trump dated Wednesday, all Democrats on the Senate Judiciary Committee urged the president to pull the appeals judge's nomination or "direct the FBI to re-open its background investigation" to examine accusations of sexual misconduct. The members of the panel, which oversees judicial nominations, argued that the claims against Kavanaugh are more than enough "to trigger a meaningful nonpartisan investigation." 

"The standard of character and fitness for a position on the nation's highest court must be higher than this," the Democrats wrote. "Judge Kavanaugh has staunchly declared his respect for women and issued blanket denials of any possible misconduct, but those declarations are in serious doubt." 
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Click to expand...


strange that you left out the part about 'or direct the FBI to re-open its background investigation' to examine accusations of sexual misconduct.  so Dems wanted him to pull the nomination or at least investigate it, that seems reasonable.  your comment only mentions the pulling of the nomination before any investigation or hearing, yet right in your link is the Dems asking for an investigation.

 
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