Denver Broncos 2-0! ...... let's make that 3-4 now (1 Viewer)

[Squinting Cyclops]

They barely won both of their games against comparably inferior teams....they could just as easily be 0 - 2.

Last night's game was especially irritating. Shanahan's time out as the ball was snapped that nobody except he and one official knew about takes the cake. I'm no Denver hater, but I was really rooting for the Radiers to expose them. Now because Denver gets a win out of it...they look like a "solid" team in the W-L category. It will catch up to them before too long.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

We already discussed this yesterday. Shanahan is a genius.

 

[Jayrod]

I think they're a solid playoff team, but a tier below Indy & NE. To have a great season, you have to win those kinds of games. Buffalo was on the road and Oakland isn't nearly as bad this year.

 

[Squinting Cyclops]

We already discussed this yesterday. Shanahan is a genius.

Sorry if this was already hashed out...didn't see it on the threads this am.If you consider "genius" to be someone who flips a coin, yes. What if the first kick missed and the second one hit. A very probable thing from that distance. Genius???? maybe, but that call just happened to go in his favor.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

They are playing like an 8-8 team but are winning the close games, which makes them a 10-6 team on the stat sheet.

 

[moleculo]

Denver has managed 400+ yards in both games. Denver leads the league in yards gained, and is 3rd in yards allowed. Denver is top 5 in rushing and passing yards per game, and first is passing yards allowed. On the other hand, Denver has only scored 3 TD's so far - 20th in the league, and is 27th in rushing D.

This offense is clicking at a high level so far, but simply failed to punch it in the end zone. Counting OT, Denver had five trips inside the 10, with three FG's yesterday. That will change - at least it better.

Of course, the raiders and the Bills aren't exactly cream of the crop teams. The Den O has been clicking the way one would expect them to. A mediocre O would put up some yards against these teams. What is concerning is the lack of TD's and the run D. both of these can haunt a team come playoff time, but there is plenty of time to fix.

Denver has struggled opening the season on the road the past few years - dropping games vs Mia and StL, specifically. While they should have killed the Bills, I was pleased with the win. The raiders always play the Broncos tough - divisional rivalry and all that.

Bottom line is that this team is finding a way to win. winning ugly is still winning. Wins like these will mean alot come playoff push time.

 

[Chase Stuart]

I think they're a solid playoff team, but a tier below Indy & NE. To have a great season, you have to win those kinds of games. Buffalo was on the road and Oakland isn't nearly as bad this year.

While I agree that they're a tier below both teams, I'm not sure either could pass on them. They've obviously had the Patriots number in years past, and the pass D is just off the charts right now. They play the Colts close last year, and Bly/Moss have been big pickups.

 

[SSOG]

quoting myself from the Denver/Oakland game thread.

Out of curiousity, are you watching the games, or are you basing that solely off of margin of victory and opponent faced? This isn't one of those "you obviously aren't watching the games!" accusations, I was just honestly curious. As a Broncos fan, I have to say, if you look at anything other than the actual score, you'd swear Denver won those two games by 40 combined points. I mean, outgaining Buffalo by 300 yards? Allowing 125 net passing yards in 130 minutes?Denver is #1 in the NFL in yards per game (#5 in passing yards, #4 in rushing yards). Denver is #3 in the NFL in yards allowed per game (with Philly yet to play, so they'll likely be #2 in yards allowed per game after tonight), allowing 62.5 yards per game passing despite an 12% more football than the average NFL team (thanks to the OT). Denver has a positive turnover differential and a positive sack differential (including ranking 7th in the league in sacks and 3rd in the league in INTs). If this is the most unimpressive 2-0 start you've ever seen, I would suggest that maybe you haven't seen many 2-0 starts.If Philly allows more than 222 yards tonight, then Denver and New England will be #1 and #2 in terms of yards per game and yards allowed per game. If Denver hadn't played overtime, it would have actually been #1 in both categories (and yes, that's even discounting the yards that Denver itself gained in overtime).

 

[Trap Play]

If the Broncos are a 2-0 glass tiger, then what does that make my 49ers? Paper tigers, balsa wood tigers.

 

[Ghost Rider]

They barely won both of their games against comparably inferior teams....they could just as easily be 0 - 2.

No offense, but this is always a stupid argument. Unless you are winning or losing blowouts on a regular basis, just about every team in the league could be two or three wins better or worse than they actually are.

 

[The_Man]

This might be a circumstance where the double reverse rule of undefeated teams is in effect -- people think Denver really sucks because they've eked out last second FG wins vs. two crappy teams, but they're actually good and have ended up playing two games that were much closer than they should have been.

Be interesting to see what the spread on Denver is this week.

 

[Marc Levin]

I believe it is a "glass chin" and a "paper tiger."

I think the Broncos will struggle a bit this year, but will get to 10-6 and make the playoffs - they lost a lot of pieces to injury before the season and need some pieces to gel into the offense. But, that defense is still top notch, and Jason Elam will win two more games for them this year.

 

[yesitsme]

yah, looks like a Wild Card team and a loss on the road the first week of the playoffs to me.

 

[Marc Levin]

Be interesting to see what the spread on Denver is this week.

The problem is in predicting an offensive bust out game. I'd still look for a low point spread and then bet heavily on the Broncos to cover. I think Henry is due for a bust out multi-TD game to go along with his yardage numbers. And, if the Broncos get a 10-12 point lead, their defense can smother folks.

 

[Marc Levin]

yah, looks like a Wild Card team and a loss on the road the first week of the playoffs to me.

What if they are 10-6 and at home in WC game hosting, say, the Texans, or Titans, or Bengals, or Ravens? I think they can beat those teams in Denver. I think Denver has a great chance to move into the second round if they host the WC game.

 

[yesitsme]

yah, looks like a Wild Card team and a loss on the road the first week of the playoffs to me.

What if they are 10-6 and at home in WC game hosting, say, the Texans, or Titans, or Bengals, or Ravens? I think they can beat those teams in Denver. I think Denver has a great chance to move into the second round if they host the WC game.

Yah, I mean they could. But then again, they're only so good. They just played the Raiders who lost by 15 points at home to the Detroit Lions. They go into Denver and almost win.Also keep in mind they barely beat Buffalo on one of the craziest ending plays of the season. So, can they win a game at home vs. those teams you mention, sure. I wouldn't bet on it though.

 

[moleculo]

we'll know what this team is made of in the next 3 weeks - home for Jax, @ Indy, then home for SD. Should the Broncos go 2-1 in this stretch, you would have to consider them one of the top AFC teams, no?

ETA: after the bye - 5 straight winnable games: home for Pit & GB, @ Det, @ KC, home for Tenn.

 

[numberSE7EN]

They are playing like an 8-8 team but are winning the close games, which makes them a 10-6 team on the stat sheet.

Remember that Cutler has only started 7 games now. Cutler 'should' get better each start as he gets more and more game experience. The Broncos play the Jags next and while I dont see either team running away with the game, I see the Broncos winning. After that though they play SD and NE, and that will be a true test for the Broncos. If they can win one of those games and are 4-1 going into their bye week I think they will have a good chance at making the playoffs. Once in the playoffs anything can happen.

 

[Acme CEO]

Denver's had alot of personnel changes on the defensive side of the ball. New coordinator, new D line that needs time to gel. This was Cutler's 7th (8th?) start. The Broncos will improve over the season.

 

[raidergil]

quoting myself from the Denver/Oakland game thread.

Out of curiousity, are you watching the games, or are you basing that solely off of margin of victory and opponent faced? This isn't one of those "you obviously aren't watching the games!" accusations, I was just honestly curious. As a Broncos fan, I have to say, if you look at anything other than the actual score, you'd swear Denver won those two games by 40 combined points. I mean, outgaining Buffalo by 300 yards? Allowing 125 net passing yards in 130 minutes?Denver is #1 in the NFL in yards per game (#5 in passing yards, #4 in rushing yards). Denver is #3 in the NFL in yards allowed per game (with Philly yet to play, so they'll likely be #2 in yards allowed per game after tonight), allowing 62.5 yards per game passing despite an 12% more football than the average NFL team (thanks to the OT). Denver has a positive turnover differential and a positive sack differential (including ranking 7th in the league in sacks and 3rd in the league in INTs). If this is the most unimpressive 2-0 start you've ever seen, I would suggest that maybe you haven't seen many 2-0 starts.If Philly allows more than 222 yards tonight, then Denver and New England will be #1 and #2 in terms of yards per game and yards allowed per game. If Denver hadn't played overtime, it would have actually been #1 in both categories (and yes, that's even discounting the yards that Denver itself gained in overtime).

The O is racking up yardage, but everyone will rack up yards on the Bills this year & Detroit rolled the Raiders. Great DBs, but they have also played 2 poor offenses. The Bills play calling is ridiculously conservative thus far & McCown played with a broken finger yesterday. Broncs should be concerned with their run D.

 

[Marc Levin]

we'll know what this team is made of in the next 3 weeks - home for Jax, @ Indy, then home for SD. Should the Broncos go 2-1 in this stretch, you would have to consider them one of the top AFC teams, no?ETA: after the bye - 5 straight winnable games: home for Pit & GB, @ Det, @ KC, home for Tenn.

I disagree on how winnable those games are - in KC is always tough for them regardless of records. Pitt looks like a team that will give them fits. Thye may be "winnable" but are not pencilled in as wins by any stratch of the imagination.I see this team with 4 losses over the next 8 games. 6-4 at the 10 game mark sounds about right and sounds like exactly how good this team is.

 

[texasheat]

If the Broncos are a 2-0 glass tiger, then what does that make my 49ers? Paper tigers, balsa wood tigers.

Wow, you're an owner?

 

[yesitsme]

we'll know what this team is made of in the next 3 weeks - home for Jax, @ Indy, then home for SD. Should the Broncos go 2-1 in this stretch, you would have to consider them one of the top AFC teams, no?ETA: after the bye - 5 straight winnable games: home for Pit & GB, @ Det, @ KC, home for Tenn.

They beat Jax, they lose to Indy. They lose to San Diego.They then lose at home vs. Pittsburgh. They barely beat Green Bay. They then lose in Detroit. Win at Kansas City and lose a close game to Tennessee.

 

[Trap Play]

Wow, you're an owner? thumbup1.gif

:johnyork:

 

[Mungo Burrows]

yah, looks like a Wild Card team and a loss on the road the first week of the playoffs to me.

What if they are 10-6 and at home in WC game hosting, say, the Texans, or Titans, or Bengals, or Ravens? I think they can beat those teams in Denver. I think Denver has a great chance to move into the second round if they host the WC game.

You're saying SD will go no better than 10-6 this year (and lose tiebreakers to the donks)? Because to host a wildcard game you have to win your division. I would suspect that if they are hosting a 1st rd game they'll have to do a lot better than 10-6.

 

[MogusMaximus]

we'll know what this team is made of in the next 3 weeks - home for Jax, @ Indy, then home for SD. Should the Broncos go 2-1 in this stretch, you would have to consider them one of the top AFC teams, no?ETA: after the bye - 5 straight winnable games: home for Pit & GB, @ Det, @ KC, home for Tenn.

They beat Jax, they lose to Indy. They lose to San Diego.They then lose at home vs. Pittsburgh. They barely beat Green Bay. They then lose in Detroit. Win at Kansas City and lose a close game to Tennessee.

Gee Wiz, thanks a lot mister. I don't even have to watch now.

 

[Marc Levin]

we'll know what this team is made of in the next 3 weeks - home for Jax, @ Indy, then home for SD. Should the Broncos go 2-1 in this stretch, you would have to consider them one of the top AFC teams, no?ETA: after the bye - 5 straight winnable games: home for Pit & GB, @ Det, @ KC, home for Tenn.

They beat Jax, they lose to Indy. They lose to San Diego.They then lose at home vs. Pittsburgh. They barely beat Green Bay. They then lose in Detroit. Win at Kansas City and lose a close game to Tennessee.

Try squeak one out v. Jax, lose to Indy and SD, toss-up v. Pitt, beat G.B. (second home game in a row, they win this one easily, IMO), LOSE at K.C., beat Tenn.I am telling you, the Broncos will struggle tremendously in K.C. - they always do.

 

[Marc Levin]

yah, looks like a Wild Card team and a loss on the road the first week of the playoffs to me.

What if they are 10-6 and at home in WC game hosting, say, the Texans, or Titans, or Bengals, or Ravens? I think they can beat those teams in Denver. I think Denver has a great chance to move into the second round if they host the WC game.

You're saying SD will go no better than 10-6 this year (and lose tiebreakers to the donks)? Because to host a wildcard game you have to win your division. I would suspect that if they are hosting a 1st rd game they'll have to do a lot better than 10-6.

True - I think the Donkeys will win the division at 10-6.

 

[yesitsme]

we'll know what this team is made of in the next 3 weeks - home for Jax, @ Indy, then home for SD. Should the Broncos go 2-1 in this stretch, you would have to consider them one of the top AFC teams, no?ETA: after the bye - 5 straight winnable games: home for Pit & GB, @ Det, @ KC, home for Tenn.

They beat Jax, they lose to Indy. They lose to San Diego.They then lose at home vs. Pittsburgh. They barely beat Green Bay. They then lose in Detroit. Win at Kansas City and lose a close game to Tennessee.

Try squeak one out v. Jax, lose to Indy and SD, toss-up v. Pitt, beat G.B. (second home game in a row, they win this one easily, IMO), LOSE at K.C., beat Tenn.I am telling you, the Broncos will struggle tremendously in K.C. - they always do.

I'm just trying to be nice to Denver thinking they may beat a KC team that's probably their worst in year's!You on the fence on the Detroit game, you didn't pick it!Restore the Roar baby. Lions beat the Broncoc at Ford Field!!!!!

 

[Ignoramus]

If the Broncos are a 2-0 glass tiger, then what does that make my 49ers? Paper tigers, balsa wood tigers.

Wow, you're an owner?

He may be, but I doubt it. It's fairly common for people to refer to their favorite team as "we" or use some possessive when discussing them. I think that's what Trap Play is doing here.

 

[kensat30]

Just give Cutler half a season and there will be talks of the Pro Bowl. This guy is the real deal and he has weapons.

 

[Marc Levin]

I'm just trying to be nice to Denver thinking they may beat a KC team that's probably their worst in year's!You on the fence on the Detroit game, you didn't pick it!Restore the Roar baby. Lions beat the Broncoc at Ford Field!!!!!

I love fans.(but I think the Denver D will manhandle the Lions' O - and that Elam's leg knows no limits in a dome)

 

[5Rings]

If the Broncos are a 2-0 glass tiger, then what does that make my 49ers? Paper tigers, balsa wood tigers.

I was going to post the same thing.

 

[Squinting Cyclops]

I believe it is a "glass chin" and a "paper tiger."I think the Broncos will struggle a bit this year, but will get to 10-6 and make the playoffs - they lost a lot of pieces to injury before the season and need some pieces to gel into the offense. But, that defense is still top notch, and Jason Elam will win two more games for them this year.

Marc, at least I didn't say paper chin You got me thinking, I believe Glass Tiger actually toured with Journey many years ago. I do agree that Denver is a contender, I just love to see contenders lose to lesser teams.

 

[Marc Levin]

If the Broncos are a 2-0 glass tiger, then what does that make my 49ers? Paper tigers, balsa wood tigers.

I was going to post the same thing.

And the Texans?Broncos are clearly not the most "fragile" 2-0 team out there just b/c they won close games as opposed to blowouts.

 

[moleculo]

I'm just trying to be nice to Denver thinking they may beat a KC team that's probably their worst in year's!You on the fence on the Detroit game, you didn't pick it!Restore the Roar baby. Lions beat the Broncoc at Ford Field!!!!!

I love fans.(but I think the Denver D will manhandle the Lions' O - and that Elam's leg knows no limits in a dome)

I'm looking forward to Bailey/Bly vs Calvin/Roy.

 

[Squinting Cyclops]

If the Broncos are a 2-0 glass tiger, then what does that make my 49ers? Paper tigers, balsa wood tigers.

I was going to post the same thing.

And the Texans?Broncos are clearly not the most "fragile" 2-0 team out there just b/c they won close games as opposed to blowouts.

agreed, not the most fragile, but the team I decided to pick on anyway becasue both of their games were surprise squeakers

 

[93Buff]

910-436

Yards for Broncos vs. Opponents.

2 times in the past 2 games - on 3rd and goal, from the 4 or 5 yard line, Shanny has run it up the middle only to settle for 2 chipshot field goals. he's also did it once on 3rd and 5 from the 24.

pass the ball!

i am a huge bronco homer, but man....cutler has all the tools. that pass to stokely for the td yesterday??? that was a very very difficult throw to make....

i think as the year goes on, shanny will continue to let cutler loose....with henry running like he's running and walker/marshall/stokely....i like their chances.....

 

[Gr00vus]

I said before the season started they were my sleeper pick to win the Super Bowl.

I think they make the playoffs easy, could win the division.

The run D needs to shore up though. That is their big weakness right now.

I'm also confused by the propensity shown to try and get carries for the fullbacks. Once or twice a game is fine, but it happened on numerous occasions yesterday. I'd rather see Henry getting those carries, especially in key situations.

 

[Mystery Achiever]

I believe it is a "glass chin" and a "paper tiger."I think the Broncos will struggle a bit this year, but will get to 10-6 and make the playoffs - they lost a lot of pieces to injury before the season and need some pieces to gel into the offense. But, that defense is still top notch, and Jason Elam will win two more games for them this year.

Marc, at least I didn't say paper chin You got me thinking, I believe Glass Tiger actually toured with Journey many years ago.

:whoosh: they were a one hit wonder (don't forget me when i'm gone); and, there's also, "paper sun " --good song by Traffic!i'm really sorry i passed on elam in a draft where he was available. i remembered hearing that he'd been used to plummer as his holder and thought twice.

 

[Paper Lions]

If the Broncos are a 2-0 glass tiger, then what does that make my 49ers? Paper tigers, balsa wood tigers.

 

[numberSE7EN]

I said before the season started they were my sleeper pick to win the Super Bowl.I think they make the playoffs easy, could win the division.The run D needs to shore up though. That is their big weakness right now.I'm also confused by the propensity shown to try and get carries for the fullbacks. Once or twice a game is fine, but it happened on numerous occasions yesterday. I'd rather see Henry getting those carries, especially in key situations.

Henry has 49 carries in two games, how many more do you want him to have?? Plus from what I saw the full back carries were quite effective.

 

[SSOG]

I'm also confused by the propensity shown to try and get carries for the fullbacks. Once or twice a game is fine, but it happened on numerous occasions yesterday. I'd rather see Henry getting those carries, especially in key situations.

Henry leads the league in rushing and is averaging almost 25 carries a game, and you think he needs MORE carries? I'd rather if he got just a hair less, to be honest- maybe in the 20-22 carries per game range.Besides, both of the "fullbacks" are actually RBs who were in camp competing for the #2 RB job, so they've certainly got skills with the ball in their hands. They were mostly given work in goal-line and short-yardage situations, where a FB run has the advantage of being quicker and more likely to net positive yardage, since the FB starts out closer to the LoS (which is ESPECIALLY what you want in crucial 3rd and 2 or 4th and 2 situations).The FB run has always been a staple of the Denver playbook, especially when Mike Anderson was a FB. Anderson actually averaged over 5 carries per game in his fullback role, so it's not surprising to see Bell and Sapp combine for a similar output.

 

[redman]

I don't like that sideline timeout rule. IMHO you should allow TO's from the sideline no later than, say, 5 seconds before the 40-second clock expires; timeout's on the field can continue as they do at present.

What I really don't like about it is that the risk of injury seems like it should outweigh this little tactical move, which BTW seems to have little effect on kickers, SeaBass notwithstanding yesterday.

 

[Gr00vus]

I'm also confused by the propensity shown to try and get carries for the fullbacks. Once or twice a game is fine, but it happened on numerous occasions yesterday. I'd rather see Henry getting those carries, especially in key situations.

Henry leads the league in rushing and is averaging almost 25 carries a game, and you think he needs MORE carries? I'd rather if he got just a hair less, to be honest- maybe in the 20-22 carries per game range.Besides, both of the "fullbacks" are actually RBs who were in camp competing for the #2 RB job, so they've certainly got skills with the ball in their hands. They were mostly given work in goal-line and short-yardage situations, where a FB run has the advantage of being quicker and more likely to net positive yardage, since the FB starts out closer to the LoS (which is ESPECIALLY what you want in crucial 3rd and 2 or 4th and 2 situations).The FB run has always been a staple of the Denver playbook, especially when Mike Anderson was a FB. Anderson actually averaged over 5 carries per game in his fullback role, so it's not surprising to see Bell and Sapp combine for a similar output.

Henry has 49 carries in two games, how many more do you want him to have?? Plus from what I saw the full back carries were quite effective.

I'm aware of all the above. However at the time most of the FB carries, Henry didn't have a ton of carries in the game. I understand running plays for the fullback a couple of times, keeps the D honest, takes people by surprise, sets up other things. But there comes a point you do it too often and you forget to get the ball in the hands of your best players in key situations, and Henry's never been a slouch at short yardage. It worked out for the Broncos well yesterday, and it's been a part of their m.o. in the past, so I can't question it too much, but I did find it worthy of remark.

 

[bluenote]

I'm looking forward to Bailey/Bly vs Calvin/Roy.

Should be fun to watch. I'm really looking forward to Bailey/Bly vs. Harrison/Wayne. Champ has been effective against Marvin and Bly is an upgrade over Darrent Williams.

 

[SSOG]

I'm aware of all the above. However at the time most of the FB carries, Henry didn't have a ton of carries in the game.

Doesn't mean much. It's a long season, so any time you get a chance to limit your featured RB's touches, you take it. Besides, many of those carries came early in the game when Denver had a two-TD lead, so Shanahan probably thought that Henry was going to rack up a lot of carries while grinding the clock.Either way, I've watched Denver a lot, and I didn't see enough carries by the backups to strike me as odd or unexpected. Seemed a lot like business as usual to me.

 

[SSOG]

I don't like that sideline timeout rule. IMHO you should allow TO's from the sideline no later than, say, 5 seconds before the 40-second clock expires; timeout's on the field can continue as they do at present. What I really don't like about it is that the risk of injury seems like it should outweigh this little tactical move, which BTW seems to have little effect on kickers, SeaBass notwithstanding yesterday.

FWIW, Shanahan claims that he didn't do it to ice Seabass, but that he noticed that his kick defense wasn't lining up exactly like he wanted, so he called a timeout to organize the rush. You can believe it or not as you see fit, but that does make sense to me, as Shanahan has said before he stopped trying to ice kickers in recent years ever since Jason Elam told him that he actually found it advantageous, since it gave him time to prep his spot better.

 

[Marc Levin]

I don't like that sideline timeout rule. IMHO you should allow TO's from the sideline no later than, say, 5 seconds before the 40-second clock expires; timeout's on the field can continue as they do at present. What I really don't like about it is that the risk of injury seems like it should outweigh this little tactical move, which BTW seems to have little effect on kickers, SeaBass notwithstanding yesterday.

FWIW, Shanahan claims that he didn't do it to ice Seabass, but that he noticed that his kick defense wasn't lining up exactly like he wanted, so he called a timeout to organize the rush. You can believe it or not as you see fit, but that does make sense to me, as Shanahan has said before he stopped trying to ice kickers in recent years ever since Jason Elam told him that he actually found it advantageous, since it gave him time to prep his spot better.

And how does the "no sideline call within 5 secs of the 40" prevent Shanahan making it clear he wants a T.O. and have his defensive captain do it?Re: Denver back carries - don't worry, Henry will either have nore carries than he's ever had in his career or he'll get injured. Shannie has no problems running the wheels off his backs.SSOG is right, a hair FEWER carries is what people should be calling for - don't want a gassed Henry missing holes late in the game, and then giving way to a b/u RB or FB for the garbage time/clock grinding numbers.

 

[SSOG]

Oh, also, one last thing... if you don't watch a lot of Denver games, you might see the backups getting lots of carries and start to get concerned, but you need to remember that Denver runs the ball A TON. Last year was a bit of a fluke because the entire offense was out of sorts, but Denver had 543, 534, and 542 carries in 2003, 2004, and 2005, and they're on pace for 560 this year despite not having any blowouts to run out the clock in yet. That's a TON. The backups could get 13 carries per game at this pace, and Henry would still wind up with 350 carries. 350 carries @ 5 ypc = 1750 yards rushing. I'm not saying I'm predicting 1750 rushing yards for Henry this season, I'm just showing that just because other teams don't have enough carries to go around doesn't mean that you should be overly concerned when Denver starts spreading the love. This is still Denver, here.

Every year people predict that the offensive line is going to return to the pack and the running game is going to be nothing special, but this is still the same Denver that we've always seen under Shanahan. When it comes to running the football, they still do it better and more often than everyone else, and Henry is still going to be the primary beneficiary of that expertise.