Jeff Pasquino
Footballguy
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Derrick Mason (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Jeff Pasquino
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Jeff Pasquino
Footballguy
Terms aren't out yet (at least none I can find).
The whole Mason retiring / Ravens not interested was just posturing on both sides.
Now the Ravens have to be a favorite for the division next year, making them a strong threat in the AFC. They just need to firm up their secondary.
The whole Mason retiring / Ravens not interested was just posturing on both sides.
Now the Ravens have to be a favorite for the division next year, making them a strong threat in the AFC. They just need to firm up their secondary.
cr8f
Footballguy
Yes signedJoe Flacco owner in 2 leagues.
road warrior
Footballguy
Ugh, being a Boldin and Mason dynasty owner.... I was hoping Mason went elsewhere. Oh, what to do? I know I'm keeping Boldin, but Mason should be trade bait, but I won't get anything for him. Hmmmmmm.
identikit
Footballguy
I'm of the opinion that this will help Boldin.Other than him and Mason, they really have nothing @ WR.
road warrior
Footballguy
I don't disagree. But what do I do with Mason on my squad? And what could I expect in return should I trade him?
identikit
Footballguy
Mason's good depth...
the branded hand
Footballguy
Yes! Thank you...He might lose some targets, but with secondary's playing him a little more honest with Boldin in the mix he's gonna be just fine. Great late round PPR redraft pick-up...
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Mark Clayton is a great buy-low....
Great pickup? I'm not buying it.Basically, the minimum threshold for fantasy relevance is 100 fantasy points. Over the last 4 years, that would have ranked a WR in the 37-41 range every year (basically, a terrible WR3). With that in mind, I looked up all WRs aged 36 or older (Mason's age to begin the season next year) who scored 100+ fantasy points. That has happened 15 times since 1960. Five times were by Jerry Rice (who, I think we can all agree, is the exception to every rule). Here's how the other 10 break down-the branded hand said:
Jimmy Smith
Joey Galloway
Charlie Joiner x3
Isaac Bruce
Terrell Owens
Chris Carter
Tim Brown
First off, I'd say all seven of those WRs are better than Mason. Second off, the most points any of those WRs scored was 138 (by Jimmy Smith), which would rank them in the WR20-24 range.
In other words... Mason is an old WR who suddenly finds himself playing second fiddle in a mediocre passing offense. His ceiling is probably a very low-end WR2. He might be a decent flier late in the draft, but I don't know that he'll be a GREAT pickup, regardless of how late he winds up going. I think a more realistic projection would have him performing next year like T.J. Housh, Braylon Edwards, or Roy Williams this year as a reasonable upside.
Yes you have repeatedly said he would be back and a few times I posted something to contradict you and say why I felt he would not return. I'm not surprised about me being wrong when I felt he would not return but I am surprised at the circumstances that lead to his return which is that reportedly he could not get any other significant offers. I certainly think the NFL devalues possession WR's and that was very clear this off season. You see no one seriously bidding for a quality possession WR like Mason and a tumultuous player like Antonio Bryant lands a similar contract to Anquan Boldin.Jeff Pasquino said:
He said PPR and Mason has finished outside WR20 once or twice in the past 10 years. He also never misses games and consistently outperforms his ADP. You can probably draft him in the 10th as your WR4. I would interested to see the sample size of that 36 y.o. stat. 15 out of how many WR's that played a full season as at least WR2 on their team??
Jeff Pasquino
Footballguy
Didn't intend to point fingers or beat my chest very much, but I do seem to do pretty well at reading the Ravens' tea leaves.Nothing personal at all - but this did play out as I expected. The Ravens are a strong front office-led organization. Ozzie's a very underrated GM.
coolnerd
Footballguy
Just using my team to show value I have seen: In a salary cap (128.00) 16 team league with PPR I sent 2.14 for Mason 5.50 and Mike Jenkins .25 (idp) In a PPR, I offered was Robiske for Mason, turned down... Asked Mike Thomas aor someone close to him (was turned down sharply)road warrior said:
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I seriously don't mind you beating your chest. You were resolute in your belief and you were proven correct. The only thing is I'd still contend is that the Ravens were preparing to go without Mason but it was going to take a nice offer to make him leave and he did not get it which is what surprised me
One last thing. I'm a Steeler fan but have long held the Ravens FO in high regard. Not sure Ozzie is underrated because I thought a lot of people felt that way. He's done one of the most amazing jobs drafting in the back half of the first round over a prolonged period of time you are ever going to see.
Lord Fantasy
Footballguy
$3.5 million in the first year . . . half of that paid in cottage cheese.
Ozzie's a very underrated GM? Tell me by who?Ozzie's thought of as one of the best, brightest and most respected GM's in the business today by most.. I'd also argue that he's probably one of the better known GM's with respect to the everyday NFL fan.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Per Shefter, 2 years, $8 million, including $3.5 million in the first year.
I still think they add a WR/TE in round 1 or 2 of this draft. Gresham/Bryant in round 1 and maybe a Thomas/Benn for the future in round 2 or a HernandezGood signing though
zamboni
Footballguy
Plus you have Rice as a great dump off option. Imagine if Heap were anywhere close to the player he used to be.I agree that the table is set for Flacco to take that next step - it's all on him now.
Matt Waldman
Footballguy
It's a nice post, but I want to debate it for fun and nitpick a few points:1) To get this out of the way, Joey Galloway was never a better WR than Derrick Mason. His strength has been his ability to retain his speed for so long. Mason is a better route runner, catcher of the football, tougher over the middle, plays hurt, and works with his QB.
2) All those receivers you mentioned other than Galloway had quality seasons with a second WR who performed well on the other side (Jerry Rice for Brown, Randy Moss for Carter, Holt w/Bruce, Joiner and his cast of good receivers with Fouts, and I believe McCardell with Smith). Even if I'm wrong about McCardell, the trend is apparent that Mason has a chance to be a good performer this year as long as he stays healthy because of the presence of a second receiver who will draw coverage away from Mason.
I think you're right about him being more of a No.2 WR (at best), but I think you're underestimating Mason as a late-round pick. If the attitude of our peers is late-round, then all the better for you. However, I think the key factor is Flacco's skill and not Mason's age this year.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
So a one year contract in reality.
Koya
Footballguy
As a ravens fan I'm very excited to hear this. Brings tremendous balance to that offense. If flacco continues to mature, along with Ray rice, will easily be the best offense the ravens have had IMO.
In regard to fantasy, championships in competitive leagues require more than assembling superstars. If I can have mason as my #3 who performs like a #2 and was drafted as a #4 or 5, giving me solid and consistent points with a few big upside games, that is what propels a good team into being very good. Or a struggling team with some bad luck or injuries into a competitive team allowing for a shot at the playoffs.
Championships in ff are not just about the stars but surprising contributors that provide consistency and value. Can't think of many better examples of a great complementary ff player than mason.
In regard to fantasy, championships in competitive leagues require more than assembling superstars. If I can have mason as my #3 who performs like a #2 and was drafted as a #4 or 5, giving me solid and consistent points with a few big upside games, that is what propels a good team into being very good. Or a struggling team with some bad luck or injuries into a competitive team allowing for a shot at the playoffs.
Championships in ff are not just about the stars but surprising contributors that provide consistency and value. Can't think of many better examples of a great complementary ff player than mason.
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
Mason was an ok WR 2 the last seasons. In my main dynasty league he finished as wr 18 and WR 21 the previous year. I don't know how with the addition of a better WR than him that he would be anything more than a fantasy WR 3 this year. In fact if you can draft him as a WR 4 it is a good play, but I don't think he reaches WR 2 tier this year at all. In fact if you are looking at PPG WR's he was WR 21 last year and WR 21 the year before.Mason has been an excellent NFL WR and pretty good fantasy WR, but he is now a WR 4/3. A guy you draft as a WR 4 if you can and really good chance he finishes as a WR 3.I would rather take chances with other WR's than Mason in my WR 3 slot. For instance, I said I would draft Burleson over a guy like Mason this year as I see Burleson as a 3/2. Draft as a 3 and perhaps get WR 2 production.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I don't believe I've ever had reason to doubt Flacco. He's going into his third season, progressed last season statistically despite having only one or two weapons and being injured. I think he makes the jump into the Tony Romo tier potentially this season.
I know he said PPR, but there's no way to search by PPR fantasy points in the historical data dominator, so I had to make do with standard scoring.I also don't think the relevant sample is the number of WRs who played a FULL SEASON as at least the WR2 on their team, because part of the argument is that older WRs are less likely to last a full season as at least the WR2. A better sample would be how many 36 year old WRs opened the season as the #2 guy on the depth chart. The historical data dominator can't tell us that, either, but it can tell us that 33 WRs aged 36 or older have gotten at least 32 receptions in a season (which averages to at least 2 receptions per game and probably does a good job of culling the WR3s from the list).As for what Mason has historically done... sure, Mason has pretty much never finished outside the top 20 in PPR... but Mason has also pretty much never been the third option in the passing game (behind Boldin and Rice) for a mediocre passing offense. Not sure how relevant Mason's production as a 30 year old first option playing with the league MVP QB is when projecting his production as a 36 year old third option playing with a QB who has never ranked among the top 16 fantasy QBs.I certainly wouldn't want Derrick Mason as my WR4.
1) Fair enough. To be honest, I'm not 100% sold that Charlie Joiner was a better WR than Mason, either.2) All of those WRs you mention who had a quality second WR across the way played in historically great passing offenses. Rice/Brown played with two-time first team AP All Pro and league MVP Rich Gannon. Moss/Carter played on a Viking offense that set the record for most points scored (later broken by the 2007 Patriots). Holt/Bruce played for the Greatest Show on Turf, but that doesn't even matter, because Bruce's 36-year-old season was a 61/835/7 affair as the #1 receiver on the 49ers (the second WR that year was Bryant Johnson). Jimmy Smith's 36 year old season came with Ernest Wilford as his #2. So, to sum it up... every 36+ year old WR who has scored 100+ points has either beenA) The unquestioned #1, usually with no legit option on the other side drawing targets (Galloway, Bruce, Jimmy Smith, Terrell Owens)or B) One of the top 2 targets on one of the greatest passing offenses in league history (Tim Brown, Charlie Joiner, Cris Carter)It also helps if they're future HoFers (Owens, Brown, Joiner, Carter, possibly Bruce). And even then, the upside is low-end WR2 and the more likely outcome is something like Terrell Owens last year (55 receptions, 800 yards) or Isaac Bruce two years ago (60/800).Derrick Mason, as the #2 (or possibly #3 behind Rice) on a mediocre passing offense, doesn't really fit the profile.
This has all sort of gotten away from the original point -- someone said he'd be a great late-round flier in PPR leagues. You admit he'd be a decent flier but not a GREAT pick-up. I guess we can keep arguing about what qualifies as "great," but you, yourself said that his ceiling is a low WR2, and if you get WR2 production from a late round pick, I think you've done pretty well. I don't think anyone is saying that he's going to make your season or be a Top 15 WR, but he certainly has a chance to provide very good value if you're getting him in the late rounds of a draft.
I said he has a ceiling of a low-end WR2. That means "the absolute best he can do if he catches every single lucky break imaginable, if Anquan Boldin breaks both of his ankles and Joe Flacco turns into Dan Marino, is low-end WR2". I also said a more realistic upside projection would put him as a low-end WR3. I don't care what round it is, I don't ever want to be drafting a WR thinking "hey, if I get lucky, he might be the worst WR3 in the NFL!".
Thanks for explaining what a ceiling means. I think you're so intent on making your point that you're missing the forest for the trees here, but you're obviously entitled to your opinion.
Leroy's Aces
Footballguy
With luck, Derrick Mason is a low end WR2? Maybe with bad luck. Can he be a top 10 WR? No. Can he be a top 20 WR. Yes. Why? Because he always is. A few comments:
Flacco was banged up at the end of the year in 2009. Mason still produced, but that couldn't have helped. Flacco is a year older, wiser, and should naturally improve as he enters his 3rd NFL season. Cameron is likely to trust Flacco more and open up the offense.
Mason has caught 68 or more passes in EVERY ONE of the past nine seasons. He has 1000 receiving yards in eight of the past nine NFL seasons. I am not a stat-freak, but that is an amazing history and body of work. Mason was WR17 in 2009, WR20 in ppr in 2008 and WR12 in ppr in 2007. In fact, he has finished as WR1 or WR2 in 8 of the last 9 NFL seasons. Unbelievable consistency. Last year, Mason had 73 catches for 1028 yards and 7 touchdowns. That was WR #17 in PPR leagues, ahead of the following players: Greg Jennings, Steve Smith, Anquan Boldin, TO, Mike Sims-Walker, Housh, Calvin. Well, gee, some of those guys got hurt. Yes, that is partly the point - Mason rarely gets hurt and is a very tough football player, producing while playing through pain. He also finished less than 20 points behind 2009 2nd round pick Marques Colston, 4th rounder Santonio Holmes, Hines Ward, 3rd rounder Ocho Cinco and breakout player Sidney Rice.
Baltimore offered very little talent-wise to take coverage away from him in 2009. Conclusion: With Boldin, he will draw almost no double coverage and is very difficult to cover one on one.
Vegas has player props. Here a hypothetical Vegas prop with what I think are about the correct odds. More likely to miss time due to injury:
29 year old Anquan Boldin -240 / 36 year old Derrick Mason +180. Yes, Boldin is much more likely to get hurt. And he will be drafted much higher than Mason.
The team itself is labeling Mason a "#1B WR" for their team. Rotoworld: Ravens offensive coordinator Cam Cameron is calling Anquan Boldin and Derrick Mason his "1A and 1B receivers.". He will still be heavily targeted. In my opinion, Cameron is likely to open up the offense a bit in Flacco's third year as I stated earlier. I could see Rice losing targets as Flacco hits Boldin and Mason more often. Those two will be open frequently.
Quote from Ozzie Newsome, March 10, 2010:
"Every Ravens fan knows what Derrick brings to this team," G.M. Ozzie Newsome said. "It's reliability, toughness, leadership, the fight to win, the want of the ball in the clutch times."
People are fooling themselves yet again when they write off Derrick Mason.
Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
I'm not a Flacco slappy but the guy has only been playing it for a couple years. Some guys don't come around and reach their potential for 5 years. I think Baltimore is rounding into shape right around when Flacco should be coming into form. I worry slightly about Baltimore's ability to stretch the field but sometimes you can't have everything.
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
Mason in PPR leagues the last two seasons has finished outside the top 20 WR's on a point per game basis.
He now will compete for targets with a better WR than himself. He is a mid to lower end WR 3 this up coming year and won't finish in the top 20 unless Boldin is injured and even then everything else would have to fall into place.
There are better options to gamble on that have a higher ceiling than Mason this up coming year.
He now will compete for targets with a better WR than himself. He is a mid to lower end WR 3 this up coming year and won't finish in the top 20 unless Boldin is injured and even then everything else would have to fall into place.
There are better options to gamble on that have a higher ceiling than Mason this up coming year.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
In PPR leagues, Mason ranked 20th in 2008 and 17th in 2009 based on PPG. His ADP in 08 was 39 and 09 was 37. I don't see how Mason wasn't a worthwhile pick. With Boldin added and Mason another year older, I suspect Mason will fall even farther. He may not be a home run threat to but up huge numbers (a la Miles Austin), but he's a reliable guy to have as a WR3 or a WR4.Carter_Can_Fly said:
az_prof
Footballguy
If you can get a second round rookie pick for Mason I would move him. Otherwise, hang onto him because if Boldin gets hurt, which isn't unlikely, Mason's value will be high again.
Koya
Footballguy
This is my point. If you are in a competitive league, its a solid contributor like Mason that could mean the difference between making the playoffs or not, or getting a top seed, winning a division, overcoming injuries. He can help keep a team going until a rookie or some other flyer produces value, can just give you some solid numbers in the #3 WR spot, even fill in at #2 in tough times.
Matt Waldman
Footballguy
True - it rests a lot on Flacco's continued development, which I'm not sold on it. Still, a healthy Heap (stretch), Rice, Boldin, and Mason is a pretty good booster seat for little Joe Flacco.
I think Mason is a low end PPR WR4. He's been outstanding value the past few years but he was not such outstanding value in 2006 when he got only 112 targets which is the lowest total I can see that he has had since he became a starter and that year he finished as a low end WR 4 in a 12 team league. I reference that year because I think he's on his way to seeing far fewer targets than he got in 2006.
Flacco attempted 499 passes last year which put him around the middle of the league. I'd expect a few more attempts this season but nothing drastically high, like maybe 1-2 more attempts per game which would put him in the top 10 for attempts and near top 5. Last year Heap and the 3 backs (Rice, Willis and McClain) accounted for 225 of those 499 targets. Mason took 134 of the remaining targets which means he took 48% of all the targets that did not go to Heap or the backs. I don't know how to look for it but I figured it just on WR targets I imagine Mason would have come close to getting over 50% of all targets to WR's. You can't add Boldin and Stallworth and expect that number to be anything close to 134 targets or 50% of WR targets this season. In fact I'd not be surprised to see Boldin be the 50% WR target and even if you alloted 30% of all available WR targets to Mason that leaves 20% of the targets left to split among Stallworth, Clayton and whoever else. So I think alloting Mason 30% of the available WR targets is being kind. So if Mason does in fact to drop to 30% of the targets I think it's in line to expect a 30-40% type drop in his production. If I took the low end of that and assumed just a 30% drop in targets and production we are looking at 51 catches, for 730 yards and 5 TD's which is about what I'd project for him.
Flacco attempted 499 passes last year which put him around the middle of the league. I'd expect a few more attempts this season but nothing drastically high, like maybe 1-2 more attempts per game which would put him in the top 10 for attempts and near top 5. Last year Heap and the 3 backs (Rice, Willis and McClain) accounted for 225 of those 499 targets. Mason took 134 of the remaining targets which means he took 48% of all the targets that did not go to Heap or the backs. I don't know how to look for it but I figured it just on WR targets I imagine Mason would have come close to getting over 50% of all targets to WR's. You can't add Boldin and Stallworth and expect that number to be anything close to 134 targets or 50% of WR targets this season. In fact I'd not be surprised to see Boldin be the 50% WR target and even if you alloted 30% of all available WR targets to Mason that leaves 20% of the targets left to split among Stallworth, Clayton and whoever else. So I think alloting Mason 30% of the available WR targets is being kind. So if Mason does in fact to drop to 30% of the targets I think it's in line to expect a 30-40% type drop in his production. If I took the low end of that and assumed just a 30% drop in targets and production we are looking at 51 catches, for 730 yards and 5 TD's which is about what I'd project for him.
Actually, my entire argument was that 36 year old WRs are generally poor fantasy options, with a sub-argument that a WR's fall from "great" to "terrible" winds up being extremely fast and unexpected. The 100 point benchmark was merely a tool I used to support my argument.If you'd prefer to look at it from another angle... If you don't like my "only 15 WRs aged 36 or older have posted 100 fantasy points" stat, how about this one- "only 15 WRs aged 36 or older have posted 50 receptions". Only 3 WRs managed to finish in the top 36 last year with fewer than 50 receptions, and all of them posted YPRs over 15 (a total Mason hasn't topped since 2001) and TD totals of 6 or more (a total Mason has only topped once in the past 5 years). I think a sub-50 reception season by Mason would definitely doom him to fantasy irrelevance just as quickly as a sub-100 fantasy point season would.Here's another fun argument for everyone who wants to keep looking at Derrick Mason's "recent history" in terms of predicting his future.In the past decade, the following WRs have played to age 36 or older: Bobby Engram, Muhsin Muhammad, Terrell Owens, Isaac Bruce, Marvin Harrison, Troy Brown, Joey Galloway, Michael Lewis, Karl Hankton, Keenan McCardell, Rod Smith, Jimmy Smith, Ricky Proehl, Tim Brown, Cris Carter, Tony Martin, Andre Reed, and Dwight Stone.Now, let's toss out Lewis, Hankton, and Stone, because they were obviously never fantasy relevant (generally because they were really just returners listed as WRs on the depth chart). I'm also tossing out Troy Brown, because he only played 1 game at age 36... and that was as a punt returner/defensive back. I'm also tossing out Ricky Proehl, because he only finished better than 40th once after age 26- calling him "fantasy relevant" is a bit of a stretch. That leaves us with 13 fantasy relevant WRs in the past decade who played to age 36.Of those 13 WRs, 12 of them saw their fantasy point total drop by 45+ points without any warning at age 35, 36, or 37 (the one exception was Jimmy Smith, who retired of his own volition rather than being forced out). And that 45 points is a minimum- at least half of the WRs saw a drop of 100+ points. Guys like Keenan McCardell, who had 70/917/9 at 35 and 36/437/0 at 36. Or like Bobby Engram, who had 94/1147/6 at 34 and 47/489/0 at 35. It's abundantly clear that there really is a "cliff" that WRs fall off without any warning as they age. It's certainly possible that Derrick Mason won't fall off that cliff this year, but there is an INCREDIBLY high risk of him doing so. People are touting him in the late rounds as a "safe bet" to get decent production, but my contention is that categorizing Mason as "safe" is inaccurate and ignorant to the realities of aging.Heck, Mason actually retired last offseason before being lured back. Apparently even he feels like he's near the end.imagroid said:
I wasn't predicting injury, I was saying that it's silly to compare Mason to a sample of receivers who played 16 games since we don't yet know whether Mason will play 16 games. There's a difference between predicting injury and acknowledging the possibility of injury.
First off, he had more targets than Rice last year because he was the WR1. Now that he's not the WR1, that might no longer be the case- there are plenty of teams where their second option is the RB. Second off, comparing McNair's stats to Flacco's stats isn't particularly relevant, either- it's all a question of stats relative to one's peers. In 2003, Tennessee was 5th in passing yards and 3rd in passing TDs. In 2009, Baltimore was 18th in passing yards and 16th in passing TDs. In 2003, Mason was the #1 target on a potent passing attack. In 2010, Mason will be a lesser target (either #2 or #3) on a mediocre passing attack. That's why what Mason did in 2003 isn't particularly relevant to what Mason will do in 2010.
All I see is blah blah blah blah. I believe someone earlier said something about missing the forest for the trees. First you talk about a 100 pt benchmark for one point and then stats relative to one's peers on another. You want to use history as a way to prove some trend with regard to 36 yo WR's, yet refuse to acknowledge Mason's history. No one even thinks that the addition of Boldin might (gasp) improve the passing attack. Take a look at what BAL has had to work with at WR2 & 3 in the past few years. I'm fine with you passing on him. He's going to probably go somewhere around WR40-45. That is a straight up value anyway you want to slice it. Also did you really say this?
one of the dumbest things I've ever read.
That's straight up value any way YOU slice it. When *I* slice it, I see a very old WR playing in a greatly reduced role on a mediocre passing offense, and drafting such a WR as the 40th WR off the board doesn't strike me as value.I use the 100 point benchmark because that's what I have. I can't query the historical data dominator to produce a list of WRs who were top 36 at age 36, or else I would, because I agree 100% that that produces a much better data set. Also, I'm not ignoring Mason's history- I posted an in-depth look of why a WR's previous history isn't relevant when it comes to aging, as evidenced by the sudden fall-off of EVERY OLD WR OVER THE PAST DECADE. If the data says "WRs who have been good for a long time will suddenly fall off a cliff at some point as they age", then you aren't making a compelling counter-argument when you respond with "oh yeah? Well Mason has been good for a long time!".
It's not dumb, you just don't understand it. You originally said the following: "I would interested to see the sample size of that 36 y.o. stat. 15 out of how many WR's that played a full season as at least WR2 on their team??"I responded by saying that sample isn't particularly relevant, because it's not a foregone conclusion that Mason will play a full season. You could have asked for a sample of 36 year old WRs who caught at least 80 balls and I would have said that that wouldn't be a representative sample because it's not a foregone conclusion that Mason would catch 80 balls, too. We don't know today that Mason will play 16 games next year, so I don't want to compare him to WRs that played 16 games. All we know is that he's 36 and the #2 WR on his team, so let's compare him to WRs that that was true about going into the season. Maybe we'll find that a substantial portion of the WRs that fit that description wound up getting hurt. Maybe we won't. Either way, we'll at least get a truer comparison to the range of potential outcomes facing Mason.It's sort of like if someone came in and said "RBs that get 400 carries in year N are likely to regress in year N+1" and you said "I won't believe it until you show me the stats of each such RB who played a full 16 games in year N+1". I could give you the sample, but it wouldn't be a representative sample, because you don't know going into year N+1 whether the RB is going to play a full season or not.I'm not saying that Mason is going to get hurt next season, I'm just saying that it's POSSIBLE Mason gets hurt next season, so why on earth would we compare him only to WRs who didn't get hurt? Heck, even if Mason WASN'T 36, that'd be a bad comparison, because EVERYONE in the NFL is an injury risk. If I want to look at what Fitzgerald might do next season, I might look at a list of WRs that had three straight 90 catch seasons... not a list of WRs that had 3 straight 90 catch seasons AND THEN also played a full 16 games the year afterward.
Because when you make projections they should be based on a full season, otherwise you are predicting injury. If you make your own projections and have some multiplier based on propensity for injury, fine, more power to you. Hard to come up with one based on Mason's injury history..but yeah whatever. It seems highly irrelevant to include 36 yo WR's that played in a couple games and weren't a substantial part of the offense. My entire point was there haven't been many WR's in Mason's situation (36 but coming off a string of good seasons, almost zero injuries and at least WR2 on his team). To say only 15 have done it since 1960something is disingenuous because it's most likely 15 out of a particularly small sample size.SSOG said:
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
As I stated in the Boldin thread, I was hoping Mason would come back and am thrilled that it happened. I don't really give a damn about the speed-guy and possession-guy dynamic. Both of these guys are a PITA to cover because of their work ethic & toughness. I have no problem with Flacco throwing 12 yard outs to them until his arm falls off.
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