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Desean Jackson (1 Viewer)

Harrison, as already pointed out, is a LOT bigger than Jackson
See...I just don't get this. 2 inches is not a lot taller, and 15 pounds with those two inches seems fairly negligable to me.Heck, my son has 15 pounds on my daughter, and you'd never know it.It's bigger but a LOT (with caps) bigger? I don't think so!
 
Harrison, as already pointed out, is a LOT bigger than Jackson
See...I just don't get this. 2 inches is not a lot taller, and 15 pounds with those two inches seems fairly negligable to me.Heck, my son has 15 pounds on my daughter, and you'd never know it.It's bigger but a LOT (with caps) bigger? I don't think so!
It really is a big difference for WRs. Especially those on the smaller/slender end of the scale. I know it's kind of hard to believe, but if you graph exact height vs exact BMI the areas with elite WRs really jump off the page.
 
Marvin Harrison, Mark Clayton (dolphins), Mark Duper, Anthony Carter, Lynn Swann wasn't that big either, dont' believe the 5'11 180 listing for him, Cliff Branch, Nat Moore
Harrison, as already pointed out, is a LOT bigger than JacksonAnd players who played with different rules for DBs are poor comparisons, so I can't comment on guys drafted 30 years ago. But in the last eleven years that list is all the top draft picks who were under six fee with a BMI under 26.5 - like Jackson. Again, see the PFP 2008 for an article explaining why it matters.
Yes, the rules were different all right, DBs were allowed to mug WRs back then, unlike today.
 
Marvin Harrison, Mark Clayton (dolphins), Mark Duper, Anthony Carter, Lynn Swann wasn't that big either, dont' believe the 5'11 180 listing for him, Cliff Branch, Nat Moore
Harrison, as already pointed out, is a LOT bigger than JacksonAnd players who played with different rules for DBs are poor comparisons, so I can't comment on guys drafted 30 years ago. But in the last eleven years that list is all the top draft picks who were under six fee with a BMI under 26.5 - like Jackson. Again, see the PFP 2008 for an article explaining why it matters.
If you're going to talk about changing rules for DBs, how about the fact that the rules for DBs changed just two years ago, in a way that favors small receivers?
 
Another comparable player who comes to mind is Ernest Givens (5'9" 175) but, of course, he was drafted outside of wdcrobs magic 11 year time frame so I guess he doesn't count either.

 
Here's my thoughts on this whole BMI discussion. I do think its an important factor but it is just one of multiple important factors that all need to be taken into consideration. When judging a WR, IMO the big four are: Size, speed, hands and route running. All four are important and if a player is severely lacking in any one he pretty much needs to be exceptional in the other three to be successful in the NFL. But the fact is that there have been plenty of WR's who have been undersized or who have been slow (by WR standards) or who have been poor route runners who have been sucessful, even pro-bowlers. I admit I haven't seen enough of Jackson to know if he is strong enough in the other three areas to make up for his lack of size but I think it is a huge mistake to eliminate players from consideration just because they don't fit the normal pattern. Thats the nature of exceptions, they don't happen very often but when they do it is because the player is exceptional.

 
Desean in the slot. How about a little discussion about this? Or was this expected, and shouldn't affect his fantasy outlook too much?

 
Hoss_Cartwright said:
HoTnickZ said:
Desean in the slot. How about a little discussion about this? Or was this expected, and shouldn't affect his fantasy outlook too much?
Who else believes he's startable in week 1 as a WR#3 or Flex?
Starting him week 1 would be extremely speculative. He's not listed as a starter, and how many fantasy points has the Eagles #3 WR traditionally put up? (Answer: none.) If he's declared a starter, it might be worth thinking about.
 
Hoss_Cartwright said:
HoTnickZ said:
Desean in the slot. How about a little discussion about this? Or was this expected, and shouldn't affect his fantasy outlook too much?
Who else believes he's startable in week 1 as a WR#3 or Flex?
Starting him week 1 would be extremely speculative. He's not listed as a starter, and how many fantasy points has the Eagles #3 WR traditionally put up? (Answer: none.) If he's declared a starter, it might be worth thinking about.
As an Eagle fan, you can expect DeSean to start week 1 with Curtis out. Reid sat out all starters last night and DeSean was one of them. Reid usually never puts all of his eggs in one basket with his rookie WR but clearly DeSean has shown him that he can compete on the practice field and in the preseason with the best of them.
 
Hoss_Cartwright said:
HoTnickZ said:
Desean in the slot. How about a little discussion about this? Or was this expected, and shouldn't affect his fantasy outlook too much?
Who else believes he's startable in week 1 as a WR#3 or Flex?
Starting him week 1 would be extremely speculative. He's not listed as a starter, and how many fantasy points has the Eagles #3 WR traditionally put up? (Answer: none.) If he's declared a starter, it might be worth thinking about.
I plan to start him at WR3 in a 10 team league in Week One. First of all, they are playing the Rams @ Home.Secondly, he's looking like the most talented receiver on the team right now.Reid will put Desean Jackson in a position to make plays. I think McNabb will be looking to hit a big play early.Get the fans into the game. And Jackson is the guy who would likely be on the receiving end of it.I'll be happy to roll the dice on DJ in week one.
 
he'll disappear just like Hank Baskett, Reggie Brown...

only twice since Andy Reid began coaching the Iggles has a WR caught 77 balls in a single season...T.O. and Curtis last season...

FAT chance another Philly WR catches anything CLOSE to 77 balls this season..

Jackson might be a solid rookie, but not many rookie WR's contribute as much as fantasy GM's would like..

not every rookie WR is another Bowe or Moss or Colston..in fact, those players are extremely rare..

I wouldn't want any Philly WR as the majority of the offense will go thru Westbrook and LJ Smith..they spread the ball around WAY too much..

 
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he'll disappear just like Hank Baskett, Reggie Brown...

only twice since Andy Reid began coaching the Iggles has a WR caught 77 balls in a single season...T.O. and Curtis last season...

FAT chance another Philly WR catches anything CLOSE to 77 balls this season..

Jackson might be a solid rookie, but not many rookie WR's contribute as much as fantasy GM's would like..

not every rookie WR is another Bowe or Moss or Colston..in fact, those players are extremely rare..

I wouldn't want any Philly WR as the majority of the offense will go thru Westbrook and LJ Smith..they spread the ball around WAY too much..
I'm not gonna argue that Desean Jackson will be an every week starter.I'm saying as a WR3... coming off a strong preseason... Opening Weekend... at Home against the Rams....

That's not a bad play in my opinion.

 
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I'm not gonna argue that Desean Jackson will be an every week starter.I'm saying as a WR3... coming off a strong preseason... Opening Weekend... at Home against the Rams....That's not a bad play in my opinion.
It's exactly the same as the Baskett play would have been in 2006; Baskett didn't have a game with 3+ receptions until week 5.
 
he'll disappear just like Hank Baskett, Reggie Brown...

only twice since Andy Reid began coaching the Iggles has a WR caught 77 balls in a single season...T.O. and Curtis last season...

FAT chance another Philly WR catches anything CLOSE to 77 balls this season..

Jackson might be a solid rookie, but not many rookie WR's contribute as much as fantasy GM's would like..

not every rookie WR is another Bowe or Moss or Colston..in fact, those players are extremely rare..

I wouldn't want any Philly WR as the majority of the offense will go thru Westbrook and LJ Smith..they spread the ball around WAY too much..
Isn't saying "the majority of the offense will go thru.....", and "they spread the ball around WAY too much", a contradiction?
 
I'm not gonna argue that Desean Jackson will be an every week starter.I'm saying as a WR3... coming off a strong preseason... Opening Weekend... at Home against the Rams....That's not a bad play in my opinion.
It's exactly the same as the Baskett play would have been in 2006; Baskett didn't have a game with 3+ receptions until week 5.
Baskett doesn't have the ability to defeat the jam as well as Jackson. DeSean Jackson's ability to get open in space and his speed is a big difference from Baskett.
 
comparably sized player

Desean's game looks comparable to this player to me.
You're quoting stats for a guy who's last productive season in the league was 60 for 775 in 1993. If my math is correct, you've had to go back 15 years to find a favorable comparison.Maybe DeSean will be listening to Nirvana and MotherLoveBone in his Discman in the locker room. He's probably got a flannel shirt hanging up in his locker.

But hey, bellbottoms came back into style so...

 
I'm not gonna argue that Desean Jackson will be an every week starter.I'm saying as a WR3... coming off a strong preseason... Opening Weekend... at Home against the Rams....That's not a bad play in my opinion.
It's exactly the same as the Baskett play would have been in 2006; Baskett didn't have a game with 3+ receptions until week 5.
Baskett doesn't have the ability to defeat the jam as well as Jackson. DeSean Jackson's ability to get open in space and his speed is a big difference from Baskett.
Jackson may wind up more successful than Baskett, but to start a rookie in his first game, when he hasn't been declared the starter, on a team that doesn't generate a lot of WR points, seems silly. Surely there are better options.
 
Hoss_Cartwright said:
HoTnickZ said:
Desean in the slot. How about a little discussion about this? Or was this expected, and shouldn't affect his fantasy outlook too much?
Who else believes he's startable in week 1 as a WR#3 or Flex?
Starting him week 1 would be extremely speculative. He's not listed as a starter, and how many fantasy points has the Eagles #3 WR traditionally put up? (Answer: none.) If he's declared a starter, it might be worth thinking about.
As an Eagle fan, you can expect DeSean to start week 1 with Curtis out. Reid sat out all starters last night and DeSean was one of them. Reid usually never puts all of his eggs in one basket with his rookie WR but clearly DeSean has shown him that he can compete on the practice field and in the preseason with the best of them.
You can't be an Eagles fan if you think that Reid will trust a rookie WR to start. He never has and never will. IF you truly followed the team, you would already know that Baskett/Lewis will be splitting time in that position.
 
Hoss_Cartwright said:
HoTnickZ said:
Desean in the slot. How about a little discussion about this? Or was this expected, and shouldn't affect his fantasy outlook too much?
Who else believes he's startable in week 1 as a WR#3 or Flex?
Starting him week 1 would be extremely speculative. He's not listed as a starter, and how many fantasy points has the Eagles #3 WR traditionally put up? (Answer: none.) If he's declared a starter, it might be worth thinking about.
As an Eagle fan, you can expect DeSean to start week 1 with Curtis out. Reid sat out all starters last night and DeSean was one of them. Reid usually never puts all of his eggs in one basket with his rookie WR but clearly DeSean has shown him that he can compete on the practice field and in the preseason with the best of them.
You can't be an Eagles fan if you think that Reid will trust a rookie WR to start. He never has and never will. IF you truly followed the team, you would already know that Baskett/Lewis will be splitting time in that position.
I don't follow Philly that closely, but when did the Eagles have a rookie WR with Jackson's ability, who had shown he could contribute quickly?
 
I'm not gonna argue that Desean Jackson will be an every week starter.I'm saying as a WR3... coming off a strong preseason... Opening Weekend... at Home against the Rams....That's not a bad play in my opinion.
It's exactly the same as the Baskett play would have been in 2006; Baskett didn't have a game with 3+ receptions until week 5.
Baskett doesn't have the ability to defeat the jam as well as Jackson. DeSean Jackson's ability to get open in space and his speed is a big difference from Baskett.
Jackson may wind up more successful than Baskett, but to start a rookie in his first game, when he hasn't been declared the starter, on a team that doesn't generate a lot of WR points, seems silly. Surely there are better options.
Andy Reid rolls out all kinds of WR packages throughout the course of a game. So being named a "starter" carries about as much significance as Julius Jones being the "starter" in Dallas the past couple years. Jackson will have chances to make plays. Could be a feast or famine type of debut for DeSean... no doubt... but I'm betting on a couple big plays. Just a gut feeling.
 
Andy Reid rolls out all kinds of WR packages throughout the course of a game. So being named a "starter" carries about as much significance as Julius Jones being the "starter" in Dallas the past couple years. Jackson will have chances to make plays. Could be a feast or famine type of debut for DeSean... no doubt... but I'm betting on a couple big plays. Just a gut feeling.
I'm sure you have better options available. Like, a starting WR.
 
If you're in a league which rewards return yards. - start him at will.

I think Jackson will be the # 3 WR in name in that game, but he's the most dynamic WR they have. I really expect him to have a pretty good season.

 
Andy Reid rolls out all kinds of WR packages throughout the course of a game. So being named a "starter" carries about as much significance as Julius Jones being the "starter" in Dallas the past couple years. Jackson will have chances to make plays. Could be a feast or famine type of debut for DeSean... no doubt... but I'm betting on a couple big plays. Just a gut feeling.
I'm sure you have better options available. Like, a starting WR.
:popcorn:
 
Andy Reid rolls out all kinds of WR packages throughout the course of a game. So being named a "starter" carries about as much significance as Julius Jones being the "starter" in Dallas the past couple years. Jackson will have chances to make plays. Could be a feast or famine type of debut for DeSean... no doubt... but I'm betting on a couple big plays. Just a gut feeling.
I'm sure you have better options available. Like, a starting WR.
:rolleyes:
Lame-### bump. I said a lot of good things about Jackson, I made that comment before he'd been declared the starter, and I specifically said that you should wait until he's declared the starter before considering starting him in fantasy leagues.
 
Andy Reid rolls out all kinds of WR packages throughout the course of a game. So being named a "starter" carries about as much significance as Julius Jones being the "starter" in Dallas the past couple years. Jackson will have chances to make plays. Could be a feast or famine type of debut for DeSean... no doubt... but I'm betting on a couple big plays. Just a gut feeling.
I'm sure you have better options available. Like, a starting WR.
:unsure:
Lame-### bump. I said a lot of good things about Jackson, I made that comment before he'd been declared the starter, and I specifically said that you should wait until he's declared the starter before considering starting him in fantasy leagues.
And my argument was always that being named "the starter" in Andy Reid's offense means nothing. Eight different players caught passes on Sunday, and that was with their 2 top receivers on the shelf. It was the matchup that was intriguing. End of story.
 
And my argument was always that being named "the starter" in Andy Reid's offense means nothing. Eight different players caught passes on Sunday, and that was with their 2 top receivers on the shelf. It was the matchup that was intriguing. End of story.
Your argument is not based on any kind of historical data. Here are the stats for the Eagles #3 WR over the past five years:23/267/222/464/248/561/1*22/377/235/498/2* Greg Lewis started 9 games after TO got injured.So, the Eagles #3 WR catches fewer than 2 balls per game and fewer than 2 TDs per year. So, being named one of the two WR starters in Andy Reid's offense is of paramount importance; Reid simply does not throw to his #3 WR very much.Jackson was named the starter, at which point it became a reasonable idea to think about playing him. As long as he's a starter, he's a potential fantasy play. If he's bumped off the top of the depth chart, he's worth starting only in leagues where you get return yardage points.
 
Jackson was named the starter, at which point it became a reasonable idea to think about playing him. As long as he's a starter, he's a potential fantasy play. If he's bumped off the top of the depth chart, he's worth starting only in leagues where you get return yardage points.
I went into the weekend thinking 'here's a guy who could fill in in a pinch (what to do about Jamal Lewis) in the flex or as a #4 WR with #3 upside. Being named the starter makes him valuable - how valuable is still up for debate as he's still a rookie and they won't face the Rams all year. He's a dynamic guy with the ball in his hands - there is no doubt about it - but as you say, if he gets bumped don the chart, he becomes less important.But who will bump him is the question? Reggie Brown? Kevin Curtis might, but then you could see Jackson as the #2 there.It's too early to crown him anything but I think he makes a real intriguing addition to many benches if you can do so or have not already done so.
 
And my argument was always that being named "the starter" in Andy Reid's offense means nothing. Eight different players caught passes on Sunday, and that was with their 2 top receivers on the shelf. It was the matchup that was intriguing. End of story.
Your argument is not based on any kind of historical data. Here are the stats for the Eagles #3 WR over the past five years:23/267/2

22/464/2

48/561/1*

22/377/2

35/498/2

* Greg Lewis started 9 games after TO got injured.

So, the Eagles #3 WR catches fewer than 2 balls per game and fewer than 2 TDs per year. So, being named one of the two WR starters in Andy Reid's offense is of paramount importance; Reid simply does not throw to his #3 WR very much.

Jackson was named the starter, at which point it became a reasonable idea to think about playing him. As long as he's a starter, he's a potential fantasy play. If he's bumped off the top of the depth chart, he's worth starting only in leagues where you get return yardage points.
As an Eagles fan who has watched this team regularly for years... I would argue that Philly has never had a 3rd WR like DeSean Jackson. In fact, they've had a bunch of bums filling that role the past 5 seasons. So this "historical data" means nothing. What I am saying is... Jackson was a decent start this week against a really bad Rams team. I don't care if he was named the starter or not. He is fast, gets open and McNabb seemed to look his way often in the preseason. I just figured that would carry over into Week One. That being said, I'm not confident he's a good start this week in Dallas. I'll have to see more.
 
The reason Jackson started was because so that he could focus on playing flanker and not have to worry about the other WR positions.

Anyone who watched the game, did Jackson play exclusively at flanker?

Where does Brown and Curtis play? Or do they rotate as well?

 

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