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Detroit should trade Calvin... (1 Viewer)

Wyld Stallyns

Wyld Stallyns

Footballguy
Started thinking this morning: Hey, if Denver can net 2 firsts, a third, and Orton for their malcontent QB... Then what would the Lions get for Calvin Johnson?

I mean, they're rebuilding so is it really wise to keep an expensive WR on the roster through that process? Regardless of how great he is talent-wise and character-wise, couldn't that money be better spent at another position(s)? Plus, by the time they're even competitive wouldn't he be nearing the end of his rookie contract anyhow?

So, just wondering... Any thoughts from the SP on what they could get for him, and/or whether they should pursue trading him come draft day? I think a deal similar to the Cutler deal could go a long way for the Lions considering the picks that they already have. It wouldn't involve multiple 1st rounders since CJ isn't a franchise quarterback, but still... If they could get a 1st, another 2nd or 3rd, PLUS a serviceable WR to play opposite Bryant Johnson - I mean, they'd have to make that deal right??

 
Johnson put up 78/1331/12 on a bad Lions team, when Shaun McDonald was their 2nd best WR with 35/332/1. I don't know how you can trade a WR with this much talent and potential for draft picks, especially when you already have 5 of the first 82 picks in the upcoming draft. Also, don't forget that the team did some addition by subtraction when they fired Matt Millen, so one would hope they will draft better this year.

 
Have to agree with these guys....IMO, Denver eventually traded Cutler because the relationship between him and the head coach had reached the point of no return. No reason to trade Calvin who is looking to be the best WR to enter the league since Randy Moss.

 
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Buffaloes said:
Have to agree with these guys....IMO, Denver eventually traded Cutler because the relationship between him and the head coach had reached the point of no return. No reason to trade Calvin who is looking to be the best WR to enter the league since Randy Moss.
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"No reason"? ...They went 0-16. Their defense isn't just bad, it's HISTORICALLY bad. Their one 'great' player is a WR and building around a great wide receiver is putting the cart before the horse. They need to build from the bottom up and add WR when they're ready.Look at Houston, they drafted Andre Johnson high in 2003... They're still trying to build a playoff team while Andre gets older and injuries pile up.

 
Calvin Johnson is so young and talented, why would you ever trade him away? Keeping him on does not hinder the rebulding process, they desperately need him as he is talent they can build around. If they decide to draft Stafford and he meets the expectations of a #1 pick, you want him to have a WR to throw too. No way should they get rid of him, even after an 0-16 season.

 
speedball said:
Johnson put up 78/1331/12 on a bad Lions team, when Shaun McDonald was their 2nd best WR with 35/332/1. I don't know how you can trade a WR with this much talent and potential for draft picks, especially when you already have 5 of the first 82 picks in the upcoming draft. Also, don't forget that the team did some addition by subtraction when they fired Matt Millen, so one would hope they will draft better this year.
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He's talented, he's amazing, he's a great character guy, he's Randy Moss + TO - the issues... and he's young. He's not the kind of player that you trade, I get all that. But we're not talking about any NFL team here, we're talking about an NFL franchise that is SOOO bad that it can't even be overstated or exaggerated. On a scale of sucktitude, they'd rank somewhere slightly higher than mud and slightly lower than an expansion team. I mean he's the one piece they have that could really bring back some value, and he plays a position that you don't build an expansion club around: wide receiver.
 
Frankbot said:
Buffaloes said:
Have to agree with these guys....IMO, Denver eventually traded Cutler because the relationship between him and the head coach had reached the point of no return. No reason to trade Calvin who is looking to be the best WR to enter the league since Randy Moss.
Click to expand...
"No reason"? ...They went 0-16. Their defense isn't just bad, it's HISTORICALLY bad. Their one 'great' player is a WR and building around a great wide receiver is putting the cart before the horse. They need to build from the bottom up and add WR when they're ready.Look at Houston, they drafted Andre Johnson high in 2003... They're still trying to build a playoff team while Andre gets older and injuries pile up.
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The Lions had 1 good thing going for them last year, why would they trade him? As I said, he is looking like the best WR to enter the NFL since Randy Moss. It would be extremely counterproductive to trade a player of Johnson's stature and ability. I disagree that you can't build around a WR especially if the WR has the abilities of Johnson. The simple fact that the defense will have to account for Johnson at all times will make the offense more productive. It wouldn't make sense from a financial standpoint either as Johnson is putting people in the seats.

 
no you don't trade calvin johnson.

that is just plain silly.

draft picks are a funny thing. they sound great this time of year, however most of the guys even in the 1st round are out of the league in 3 years. so why trade someone who could be one of the top 10 ever at his position for some mayBEs?

the lions defense stinks and will for at least 3 years, they need to revamp the whole unit and that normally takes sometime.

however, i'll say this...i think Detroit made a big mistake in not getting cutler. i hope stafford turns out to be good. i really do. i feel for lions fans., at least you have the pistions...oh wait...well you have the tigers...oh wait...well you do have the red wings. :-)

 
Frankbot said:
speedball said:
Johnson put up 78/1331/12 on a bad Lions team, when Shaun McDonald was their 2nd best WR with 35/332/1. I don't know how you can trade a WR with this much talent and potential for draft picks, especially when you already have 5 of the first 82 picks in the upcoming draft. Also, don't forget that the team did some addition by subtraction when they fired Matt Millen, so one would hope they will draft better this year.
Click to expand...
He's talented, he's amazing, he's a great character guy, he's Randy Moss + TO - the issues... and he's young. He's not the kind of player that you trade, I get all that. But we're not talking about any NFL team here, we're talking about an NFL franchise that is SOOO bad that it can't even be overstated or exaggerated. On a scale of sucktitude, they'd rank somewhere slightly higher than mud and slightly lower than an expansion team. I mean he's the one piece they have that could really bring back some value, and he plays a position that you don't build an expansion club around: wide receiver.
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They can turn it around in a couple of years with a few good drafts and smart FA acquisition. If Johnson were in his mid thirties you'd be on to something.
 
How about these scenarios as examples:

a. Braylon and the 1.5 pick from Cleveland? a. Donnie Avery and the 1.2 pick from St. Louis?b. Lee Evans and the 2.10 pick from Buffalo?c. From Denver: Eddie Royal OR Brandon Marshall and either the 1.12 or 1.18 pick?d. Steve Smith, 1.29 and 2.28 from NYG?e. 1.28, 2.21 and DeSean Jackson from Philly?

Seriously, am I just embarrassing myself here with these?? :thumbup: Or do any of them at least make a little sense? I think that if Calvin is perceived how Cutler is, and Detroit could get a "lesser" WR plus some picks for him the way that Denver got a "lesser" QB and picks... Well, I think they'd be dumb to pass it up. In fact, they should actively be seeking it out in my mind.
 
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I don't see the necessity of trading a 23 year old wide-out when the team just started to rebuild. It would be like Indy trading Marvin Harrison just before drafting Peyton. (not to imply that Stafford is like Peyton)

 
Donnybrook said:
I don't see the necessity of trading a 23 year old wide-out when the team just started to rebuild. It would be like Indy trading Marvin Harrison just before drafting Peyton. (not to imply that Stafford is like Peyton)
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In all fairness, it took the Peyton/Harrison combo almost 10 years to win a Superbowl. Just sayin.
 
why trade him?

he's entering his third season in the leauge and is already a dominat WR.

Plus you already ripped off Dallas for a 1st and a 3rd for Roy. No reason to move Calvin too

 
Frankbot said:
...

Look at Houston, they drafted Andre Johnson high in 2003... They're still trying to build a playoff team while Andre gets older and injuries pile up.
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:goodposting: Seriously? After reading your OP I was reading through with the plan when I reached the end of the thread to point out Houston was in the same situation and how much better off the Texans are for not having traded Andre Johnson.

Do you really think Houston would be better off today without him? I can't fathom that. Many are calling him the best WR in the game. He's a big part of the reason that Houston was top 3 in offense last year and has been in the playoff hunt the last 2 years (and likely might have made it had it not been for playing in the AFC South).

 
:goodposting:

This is a topic I'd expect to see on some random Lions board, not here. Sure, why not trade him for 3 1st's (one to make up for Harrington/Rogers/Williams) :wall:

After all misses over the last few years, they finally hit jackpot on a guy & you deal him ?!?!?!

 
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I am sure the Vikings will give you two firsts for Calvin Johnson. After all, they have to make up for trading Randy Moss for Napolean Harris and Troy Williamson.

 
Frankbot said:
He's talented, he's amazing, he's a great character guy, he's Randy Moss + TO - the issues... and he's young. He's not the kind of player that you trade, I get all that. But we're not talking about any NFL team here, we're talking about an NFL franchise that is SOOO bad that it can't even be overstated or exaggerated. On a scale of sucktitude, they'd rank somewhere slightly higher than mud and slightly lower than an expansion team. I mean he's the one piece they have that could really bring back some value, and he plays a position that you don't build an expansion club around: wide receiver.
Click to expand...
Trading away 'megatron' would be exactly the kind of move that would ensure Detroit remains the barometer by which futility is measured in the NFL. Seriously, this is a TERRIBLE idea of Matt Millen-esque proportions...
 
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bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
why trade him?he's entering his third season in the leauge and is already a dominat WR.Plus you already ripped off Dallas for a 1st and a 3rd for Roy. No reason to move Calvin too
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This is the correct answer. The Lions already traded the "stud" WR that should have been traded and they ripped off Dallas in the process. Keep Calvin.
 
Frankbot said:
Started thinking this morning: Hey, if Denver can net 2 firsts, a third, and Orton for their malcontent QB... Then what would the Lions get for Calvin Johnson?
Click to expand...
Here's where you need to re-think this thing. There is a reason why 25 yr old franchise QBs are normally considered untouchable. Denver may end up whiffing on all 3 of those draft picks, and Orton will NEVER be a franchise QB that can carry a team to a Super Bowl. The odds are stacked pretty heavily against Denver recouping what they've just lost (the face of the franchise, cornerstone franchise QB they were building their future around). Come back in a few years and tell me how wonderful the Cutler trade was for the Broncos...
 
Calvin Johnson has a chance to be an all time great. He has every physical tool there is and appears to be a high-character guy as well. There are only a handful of players at his level (I'm not talking WR I'm talking overall) and if you have one of them who also happens to be his age than consider yourself blessed. You rebuild by building around this type of elite player not by trading him. He's a franchise level player and right now (outside of draft picks) he's the one thing a very dismal franchise can hang their hat on.

 
Why would you trade him for picks? So that MAYBE you can hit the jackpot with one of those picks and get someone like, I don't know, Calvin Johnson with it?

 
This is why you don't trade Calvin Johnson. Because if the team ever hopes to become a contender it will need great players to make great plays in big situations. Calvin Johnson is an absolute beaststud, and is the kind of guy who can make a game turning play if he's ever on the big stage. If they trade him? The road to that big stage will only become harder to travel. He makes the team better, and is only 23.

 
HA. man oh man. Well I guess we can close the book on this one... Clearly a bad call on my part and not even worth discussing.

Sorry.

 
Frankbot said:
HA. man oh man. Well I guess we can close the book on this one... Clearly a bad call on my part and not even worth discussing.Sorry.
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I think the big issue is his age. He still has so much football left in him. If he was around 30 and Detroit was in the same situation than dealing him would make sense. Yet, at his age he still has plenty of time left to help right this sinking ship.
 
I could see the Lions trading Calvin Johnson in a couple of years if they're still a bad team. I doubt he'd play his whole career for that type of franchise. This year however no way.

 
Frankbot said:
Buffaloes said:
Have to agree with these guys....IMO, Denver eventually traded Cutler because the relationship between him and the head coach had reached the point of no return. No reason to trade Calvin who is looking to be the best WR to enter the league since Randy Moss.
Click to expand...
"No reason"? ...They went 0-16. Their defense isn't just bad, it's HISTORICALLY bad. Their one 'great' player is a WR and building around a great wide receiver is putting the cart before the horse. They need to build from the bottom up and add WR when they're ready.Look at Houston, they drafted Andre Johnson high in 2003... They're still trying to build a playoff team while Andre gets older and injuries pile up.
Click to expand...
By "older and injuries pile up" I assume you mean "in the prime of his career and coming off a season where he played in every game and led the NFL in receptions and yards" right?
 
Frankbot said:
Donnybrook said:
I don't see the necessity of trading a 23 year old wide-out when the team just started to rebuild. It would be like Indy trading Marvin Harrison just before drafting Peyton. (not to imply that Stafford is like Peyton)
Click to expand...
In all fairness, it took the Peyton/Harrison combo almost 10 years to win a Superbowl. Just sayin.
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I'm sure the Lions would hate it if they had to wait seven more years for a Super Bowl victory since they've piled them up so regularly in franchise history.
 
Yeah the Lions should trade a player that looks like a future HOF'er for draft picks because we all know how draft picks automatically mean success :thumbup:

Geez....you want Det to take another chance on some Charles Roger or Fat Mike Williams? :bag:

I know this is all hypothetical, but this fantasy football/Madden driven stupidity needs to stop. The real NFL does not work that way. And WRs do not earn you that much back in return like QBs do.

 
ScottyFargo said:
Calvin Johnson is so young and talented, why would you ever trade him away? Keeping him on does not hinder the rebulding process, they desperately need him as he is talent they can build around. If they decide to draft Stafford and he meets the expectations of a #1 pick, you want him to have a WR to throw too. No way should they get rid of him, even after an 0-16 season.
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:goodposting: This team is devoid of talent at most positions. The whole point of rebuilding is to accumlate talent, and Calvin is one of the most talented in the league at his position. I'm not sure how getting rid of proven talent for a chance at picking up a less talented player helps the rebuilding process. The Lions already have 5 picks in the first 3 rounds so they are in a very good position already.

Also this can't be compared to the Cutler situation, Calvin is not a disgruntled player that the new coach decided doesn't fit his system.

 
gianmarco said:
Why would you trade him for picks? So that MAYBE you can hit the jackpot with one of those picks and get someone like, I don't know, Calvin Johnson with it?
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:goodposting: If Denver wants to part with both their 1st round picks this year and both their 1st round picks next year...maybe. :goodposting:
 
Nay.

They should draft Stafford and order him to throw to CJ every passing play this season--even if he's on the bench.

 
There are men. Then there are men amongst boys. Then there is Megatron. Even Jerry Rice looks at him and goes DAAAAHHHHHHMMMMMMUUN.

He can chop off all his finger tips and sew anyone of the ten onto Ronnie Lott with his eyes closed and still catch a TD pass with only his hands above three wide-eyed defenders....

I heard tale of him drinking the Mississippi dry and then sweating it back full again during a pregame warmup.

Once in a lifetime talent, that we as Lions are lucky enough to have twice...

Barry Sanders, from whom all blessings flow....

{hold lighter in the air, pour a bit of beer on the curb and laugh at Packer fan who drafted Mandrich before him}

We can build around him and we will. I keep telling myself that.

Peace

 
Christo said:
Nay.They should draft Stafford and order him to throw to CJ every passing play this season--even if he's on the bench.
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Even the running plays. Even the punts. Even the when the defense blitzes and recovers a fumble(it could happen) they should then look for CJ and throw him the ball.Peace
 
Just because Denver made a mess and traded a franchise player doesn't mean other teams are likely to follow suit. There's a reason it rarely happens. Draft picks are lottery tickets and they are no sure thing. You don't trade young franchise players for picks if you're rebuilding, you trade good veterans (which they have little of).

 
Banger said:
Just because Denver made a mess and traded a franchise player doesn't mean other teams are likely to follow suit. There's a reason it rarely happens. Draft picks are lottery tickets and they are no sure thing. You don't trade young franchise players for picks if you're rebuilding, you trade good veterans (which they have little of).
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Everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that I suggested they trade him for another WR and draft picks, not just picks. I personally think Denver could potentially be better off after downgrading their QB from Cutler to Orton and acquiring a number of other players through the draft. I could be wrong on that, and I'm sure many will disagree - BUT, I still don't see any reason why that logic couldn't apply to Detroit's situation considering that WR is a much less impact position that QB. If they could downgrade from "the greatest WR to ever play the game and is already in the hall of fame after two seasons" to "a quality WR who would start for any team in the league" AND manage to pick up some quality draft picks in the process... I don't know, still seems smart to me. I look at Calvin as a luxury they can't afford right now, though I'm clearly in the minority on that. :rolleyes:
 
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