Deuce already having troubles (1 Viewer)

[Blackjacks]

July 31, 2006, 09:29

Saints :: RB

RB McAllister Experiencing Swelling, Soreness

Sheldon Mickles, Louisiana Advocate - [Full Article]

RB Deuce McAllister said the knee has had a little swelling and soreness, but nothing he can’t fight through. He’ll be monitored closely throughout the 4 - week camp and sit out an afternoon practice as needed during two-a-days. “It’s sore, but that’s part of it,” he said. “You just got to fight through it and continue to take it one day at a time, see how it feels and go from there. We have a little swelling, it’s just a matter of fighting through that and trying to be smart with it.”

I feel even more confident that Bush will be the man this year after reading this.

Deuce won't be anywhere near what we've been use to in the past.

 

[ImTheScientist]

Reggie, Reggie, Reggie!!

 

[mightyeskimo]

I wouldn't read too much into this. Soreness and swelling are natural parts of the rehab process. I think this situation should be monitered and then evaluated at the end of camp before dropping Deuce down any further in rankings. However, the writing is on the wall with Bush there. Deuce's time with the Saints is drawing to a close.

 

[zamboni]

Deuce won't be anywhere near what we've been use to in the past.

I wouldn't write him off, but to be sure, he's less than a year removed from his ACL injury.I doubt he'll be that effective this year, but given how it's not uncommon for guys to return from ACL tears, I think he could be effective next year. Of course, that will probably be somewhere else.

 

[Gr00vus]

Where's the "stick a fork in him" icon when I need it?

 

[Sinrman]

Deuce isn't done. They'll split time. But if this continues, I can see Bush's PT going up even more than before. Right now, I could see a 60-40 Deuce to Bush ratio, but the more we see of this the more it gets to 50-50 or more...

 

[ImTheScientist]

Deuce isn't done. They'll split time. But if this continues, I can see Bush's PT going up even more than before. Right now, I could see a 60-40 Deuce to Bush ratio, but the more we see of this the more it gets to 50-50 or more...

Deuce was great in 2002-2003 and I think a lot of people are still holding on to those 2 great seasons he had. However in 2004 he only had 1074 yards rushing, while averaging 4.0 ypc, and in 2005 he went for 335 yards rushing, and 3.6 ypc. He tore his knee up week 5, which means it has still not even been a year since the injury.

Now lets look at Edgerrin James as a reference. Previous to tearing his ACL he was the best back in the league. He tore his knee up week 6 of that season. He came back to 989 yards rushing, and 3.6 ypc. This IMO would be the most Deuce could hope for. He is not as good as Edge was or is and his team is not nearly as good as the Colts were in 2002 (Edge's year back from tear).

There are a lot of people who feel Deuce will be a steal at his ADP this year......I would not touch him, even if he is slipping. More than likely he will play for a couple of weeks and have his carries reduced to around 10 or fewer per game, or he will end up back on IR.

 

[mcjc4]

Deuce isn't done. They'll split time. But if this continues, I can see Bush's PT going up even more than before. Right now, I could see a 60-40 Deuce to Bush ratio, but the more we see of this the more it gets to 50-50 or more...

If Bush lives up to the hype, 80-20 Reggie by week 4. The superior talent will get the call. Golaline carriers maybe a differewnt story.

 

[RAPTURE]

Deuce was great in 2002-2003 and I think a lot of people are still holding on to those 2 great seasons he had. However in 2004 he only had 1074 yards rushing, while averaging 4.0 ypc, and in 2005 he went for 335 yards rushing, and 3.6 ypc. He tore his knee up week 5, which means it has still not even been a year since the injury. Now lets look at Edgerrin James as a reference. Previous to tearing his ACL he was the best back in the league. He tore his knee up week 6 of that season. He came back to 989 yards rushing, and 3.6 ypc. This IMO would be the most Deuce could hope for. He is not as good as Edge was or is and his team is not nearly as good as the Colts were in 2002 (Edge's year back from tear). There are a lot of people who feel Deuce will be a steal at his ADP this year......I would not touch him, even if he is slipping. More than likely he will play for a couple of weeks and have his carries reduced to around 10 or fewer per game, or he will end up back on IR.

 

[Despyzer]

I feel even more confident that Bush will be the man this year after reading this.

Deuce won't be anywhere near what we've been use to in the past.

So what you are saying is that you are happy you had second thoughts about taking a Deuce?

 

[Sopranos]

I wouldn't read too much into this. Soreness and swelling are natural parts of the rehab process. I think this situation should be monitered and then evaluated at the end of camp before dropping Deuce down any further in rankings. However, the writing is on the wall with Bush there. Deuce's time with the Saints is drawing to a close.

 

[cr8f]

I feel even more confident that Bush will be the man this year after reading this.

Deuce won't be anywhere near what we've been use to in the past.

Next year he will.

 

[joffer]

we need a :wouldnttouchhimwithatenfootpole: smiley

 

[Bri]

I wouldn't read too much into this. Soreness and swelling are natural parts of the rehab process.

no need to panic

Daunte and Carson's knees will swell too whether we hear about it or not it'll happen

 

[Blackjacks]

Deuce isn't done. They'll split time. But if this continues, I can see Bush's PT going up even more than before. Right now, I could see a 60-40 Deuce to Bush ratio, but the more we see of this the more it gets to 50-50 or more...

If Bush lives up to the hype, 80-20 Reggie by week 4. The superior talent will get the call. Golaline carriers maybe a differewnt story.

This is exactly what I think

 

[3nOut]

I wouldn't read too much into this.  Soreness and swelling are natural parts of the rehab process.

no need to panic

Daunte and Carson's knees will swell too whether we hear about it or not it'll happen

Quite true, but they can always wear a brace to support their knee when they play. The don't need as much mobility and cutback-ability as a running back does. Knee injuries are worse (in terms of type of injury) for RBs than for QBs. Maybe its because of the extra strain they put on their knees that they take longer to return than QBs.

 

[cracKer]

If Bush lives up to the hype, 80-20 Reggie by week 4. The superior talent will get the call. Golaline carriers maybe a differewnt story.

80% of what? Total team carries? Bush will be fortunate to get 250 touches this year.ipedream:

 

[jurb26]

If Bush lives up to the hype, 80-20 Reggie by week 4. The superior talent will get the call. Golaline carriers maybe a differewnt story.

80% of what? Total team carries? Bush will be fortunate to get 250 touches this year.ipedream:

With the versitility of Bush, I would say 250 is highly attainable. Caddy had near 300 last year and Brown had over 240. Niether are the player that Bush is.

 

[MLBrandow]

July 31, 2006, 09:29

Saints :: RB

RB McAllister Experiencing Swelling, Soreness

Sheldon Mickles, Louisiana Advocate - [Full Article]

RB Deuce McAllister said the knee has had a little swelling and soreness, but nothing he can’t fight through. He’ll be monitored closely throughout the 4 - week camp and sit out an afternoon practice as needed during two-a-days. “It’s sore, but that’s part of it,” he said. “You just got to fight through it and continue to take it one day at a time, see how it feels and go from there. We have a little swelling, it’s just a matter of fighting through that and trying to be smart with it.”

I feel even more confident that Bush will be the man this year after reading this.

Deuce won't be anywhere near what we've been use to in the past.

The title is misleading.That joke about 80-20 Reggie is... a joke.

I don't think any back saw 80% of the carries last year... even the ones who didn't have to share the backfield with pro bowl RBs on $50M contracts.

The Reggie Bush man-love is getting out of hand. Every time Deuce breathes or Bush farts you use it as ammunition to reassure yourselves that Bush is somehow going to be so unbelievably great that one of the best RBs in the league (who hobbled, is still pretty damn good) will be relegated to spot duty.

Continue to dream.

 

[PACKER 7]

July 31, 2006, 09:29

Saints :: RB

RB McAllister Experiencing Swelling, Soreness

Sheldon Mickles, Louisiana Advocate - [Full Article]

RB Deuce McAllister said the knee has had a little swelling and soreness, but nothing he can’t fight through. He’ll be monitored closely throughout the 4 - week camp and sit out an afternoon practice as needed during two-a-days. “It’s sore, but that’s part of it,” he said. “You just got to fight through it and continue to take it one day at a time, see how it feels and go from there. We have a little swelling, it’s just a matter of fighting through that and trying to be smart with it.”

I feel even more confident that Bush will be the man this year after reading this.

Deuce won't be anywhere near what we've been use to in the past.

The title is misleading.That joke about 80-20 Reggie is... a joke.

I don't think any back saw 80% of the carries last year... even the ones who didn't have to share the backfield with pro bowl RBs on $50M contracts.

The Reggie Bush man-love is getting out of hand. Every time Deuce breathes or Bush farts you use it as ammunition to reassure yourselves that Bush is somehow going to be so unbelievably great that one of the best RBs in the league (who hobbled, is still pretty damn good) will be relegated to spot duty.

Continue to dream.

Out of control is right. This is getting ridiculous. I'd like to know how many rookie RBs took over in their first year after signing with a team that has a multiple Pro-Bowl RB already. Just my guess, but I'd say next to or exactly zero unless there was a season ending injury. Deuce Mc has so much value right now it is insane. I play in 2 leagues and already people are trying to decide if they are going to draft him in the 2nd or 3rd or 4th round. Sure he may be all that in a year, in two, but I'm not giving up my 2006 for a guy who has never taken a snap in the NFL.

 

[Payne]

I cannot believe the hype Bush is getting. He has done nothing in the NFL yet. Personally, I think we are looking at one of the biggest busts in history.

Maybe not from an NFL level, but from a fantasy level.

 

[Bri]

I wouldn't read too much into this.  Soreness and swelling are natural parts of the rehab process.

no need to panic

Daunte and Carson's knees will swell too whether we hear about it or not it'll happen

Quite true, but they can always wear a brace to support their knee when they play. The don't need as much mobility and cutback-ability as a running back does. Knee injuries are worse (in terms of type of injury) for RBs than for QBs. Maybe its because of the extra strain they put on their knees that they take longer to return than QBs.

braces don't help swelling and can make it hurt more. Ice and sometimes draining it. Swelling creates pressure on the kneecap which is painful in large amounts(lil bigger than grapefruit size knee) but just annoying the rest of the time. Swelling becomes less common as the knee gets used to the work. There's not much rhyme or reason as to when that is and players regularly ice up after games so it's very doable

 

[zamboni]

I cannot believe the hype Bush is getting. He has done nothing in the NFL yet. Personally, I think we are looking at one of the biggest busts in history.Maybe not from an NFL level, but from a fantasy level.

Hard to say that he'll be one of the biggest busts, but I think he may disappoint quite a few fantasy owners when all is said and done.

 

[Sidewinder]

... The question I'm asking is why the Saints have not let go Bennent yet if Duece is on schedule????? ...

Simple progression -- had to get Bush signed, had to see how Deuce responded after a few practices. I expect Bennett will be traded by the end of this week, and certainly no later than mid-August.

 

[ImTheScientist]

July 31, 2006, 09:29

Saints :: RB

RB McAllister Experiencing Swelling, Soreness

Sheldon Mickles, Louisiana Advocate - [Full Article]

RB Deuce McAllister said the knee has had a little swelling and soreness, but nothing he can’t fight through. He’ll be monitored closely throughout the 4 - week camp and sit out an afternoon practice as needed during two-a-days. “It’s sore, but that’s part of it,” he said. “You just got to fight through it and continue to take it one day at a time, see how it feels and go from there. We have a little swelling, it’s just a matter of fighting through that and trying to be smart with it.”

I feel even more confident that Bush will be the man this year after reading this.

Deuce won't be anywhere near what we've been use to in the past.

The title is misleading.That joke about 80-20 Reggie is... a joke.

I don't think any back saw 80% of the carries last year... even the ones who didn't have to share the backfield with pro bowl RBs on $50M contracts.

The Reggie Bush man-love is getting out of hand. Every time Deuce breathes or Bush farts you use it as ammunition to reassure yourselves that Bush is somehow going to be so unbelievably great that one of the best RBs in the league (who hobbled, is still pretty damn good) will be relegated to spot duty.

Continue to dream.

Deuce has not been on of the best RB's in the league for over 2 years ..... I don't know if he would be top 10 even if healthy.

 

[Pipes]

If Bush lives up to the hype, 80-20 Reggie by week 4.  The superior talent will get the call. Golaline carriers maybe a differewnt story.

80% of what? Total team carries? Bush will be fortunate to get 250 touches this year.ipedream:

That's not even 16 touches a game, with rushes, receptions and returns I think he get's this easily.

 

[Blackjacks]

July 31, 2006, 09:29

Saints :: RB

RB McAllister Experiencing Swelling, Soreness

Sheldon Mickles, Louisiana Advocate - [Full Article]

RB Deuce McAllister said the knee has had a little swelling and soreness, but nothing he can’t fight through. He’ll be monitored closely throughout the 4 - week camp and sit out an afternoon practice as needed during two-a-days. “It’s sore, but that’s part of it,” he said. “You just got to fight through it and continue to take it one day at a time, see how it feels and go from there. We have a little swelling, it’s just a matter of fighting through that and trying to be smart with it.”

I feel even more confident that Bush will be the man this year after reading this.

Deuce won't be anywhere near what we've been use to in the past.

The title is misleading.That joke about 80-20 Reggie is... a joke.

I don't think any back saw 80% of the carries last year... even the ones who didn't have to share the backfield with pro bowl RBs on $50M contracts.

The Reggie Bush man-love is getting out of hand. Every time Deuce breathes or Bush farts you use it as ammunition to reassure yourselves that Bush is somehow going to be so unbelievably great that one of the best RBs in the league (who hobbled, is still pretty damn good) will be relegated to spot duty.

Continue to dream.

? for you. Do you think Deuce Mac is a pro bowl talent right now or are you going off 2 years ago for this statement. If you still think he is today then I say you should continue to dream. Never in my statement did I say I think Reggie Bus will put up top ten #'s. Also how is the title misleading. I said that I think Bush will gain the majority of the carries and I don't think Deuce will be a picture of his old self due to swelling in his knees. How is that misleading?

 

[ImTheScientist]

Bush will see around 300 touches (carries and receptions) this year ..... I think he'll end up top 10

 

[SproutDaddy]

If Bush lives up to the hype, 80-20 Reggie by week 4. The superior talent will get the call. Golaline carriers maybe a differewnt story.

80% of what? Total team carries? Bush will be fortunate to get 250 touches this year.ipedream:

With the versitility of Bush, I would say 250 is highly attainable. Caddy had near 300 last year and Brown had over 240. Niether are the player that Bush is.

And this is based on what? He hasn't even played a down in the NFL!

 

[jurb26]

If Bush lives up to the hype, 80-20 Reggie by week 4. The superior talent will get the call. Golaline carriers maybe a differewnt story.

80% of what? Total team carries? Bush will be fortunate to get 250 touches this year.ipedream:

With the versitility of Bush, I would say 250 is highly attainable. Caddy had near 300 last year and Brown had over 240. Niether are the player that Bush is.

And this is based on what? He hasn't even played a down in the NFL!

I knew it was only a matter of time until this was posted. He is a better prospect then both, better?

 

[joffer]

If Bush lives up to the hype, 80-20 Reggie by week 4. The superior talent will get the call. Golaline carriers maybe a differewnt story.

80% of what? Total team carries? Bush will be fortunate to get 250 touches this year.ipedream:

With the versitility of Bush, I would say 250 is highly attainable. Caddy had near 300 last year and Brown had over 240. Niether are the player that Bush is.

And this is based on what? He hasn't even played a down in the NFL!

that's a common trait among rookies

 

[Born to Run]

Deuce won't be anywhere near what we've been use to in the past.

I wouldn't write him off, but to be sure, he's less than a year removed from his ACL injury.I doubt he'll be that effective this year, but given how it's not uncommon for guys to return from ACL tears, I think he could be effective next year. Of course, that will probably be somewhere else.

He is going to be undervalued from a dynasty viewpoint. I like his prospects better than someone like Norwood or Calhoun.

 

[Blackjacks]

Deuce won't be anywhere near what we've been use to in the past.

I wouldn't write him off, but to be sure, he's less than a year removed from his ACL injury.I doubt he'll be that effective this year, but given how it's not uncommon for guys to return from ACL tears, I think he could be effective next year. Of course, that will probably be somewhere else.

He is going to be undervalued from a dynasty viewpoint. I like his prospects better than someone like Norwood or Calhoun.

And I would agree with this. I think after this year he'll be better recovered and on another team to be a lead back. I would definetly like him better in a dynasty than a redraft.

 

[Gr00vus]

Deuce has not been on of the best RB's in the league for over 2 years ..... I don't know if he would be top 10 even if healthy.

My opinion of Deuce being done had nothing to do with Bush (I think he's overhpyed a bit actually). It had to do with the fact that Deuce didn't look at all good last year BEFORE the injury ended his season. He was running soft, weak, tentatively with no explosion and average speed at best. Even had he not had the injury I wouldn't be expecting much from him. With the injury I can't see this guy being worth the draft pick he'll probably cost you.It sickens me to say it, but Micheal "breaks if he sneezes hard" Bennett is starting to look like the value play from that team.But actually I think I'm going to be doing my best to avoid all Saints this year....

 

[Black Label Society]

Honestly guys.....and I'm not a USC fan, nor Bush fan.

RB's with ACL injuries aren't worth a crap 90% of the time within 2 years of the injury.

This has been hashed over and over and over.

Bush averaged 8.9 yards per carry in college. That is ASTOUNDING.

Granted he had a great offensive line and offense, but you can't say the guy isn't just simply amazing.

with a decent passing game, and a RB who is already having knee swelling, Bush could be the biggest fantasy rookie ever.

I didn't want to touch anybody from the Saints RB's because of splitting time with Deuce and Bush, but knee swelling already is BAD BAD BAD news. Ask Duce Staley from last year. Ask Edge, ask Terrell Davis.

The list goes on and on and on.

I personally think Bush, WITH a decent passing attack, could be a top 10 RB, if Deuce's knee problems persist. They didn't pay him $60 Million Dollars to be a 3rd down back and kick returner.

Just think if he returned kicks AND was the starter at RB.........think he might score double digit TD's???

I do.

Just my .02

 

[wadegarrett]

Honestly guys.....and I'm not a USC fan, nor Bush fan.RB's with ACL injuries aren't worth a crap 90% of the time within 2 years of the injury.This has been hashed over and over and over.Bush averaged 8.9 yards per carry in college. That is ASTOUNDING.Granted he had a great offensive line and offense, but you can't say the guy isn't just simply amazing.with a decent passing game, and a RB who is already having knee swelling, Bush could be the biggest fantasy rookie ever.I didn't want to touch anybody from the Saints RB's because of splitting time with Deuce and Bush, but knee swelling already is BAD BAD BAD news. Ask Duce Staley from last year. Ask Edge, ask Terrell Davis.The list goes on and on and on.I personally think Bush, WITH a decent passing attack, could be a top 10 RB, if Deuce's knee problems persist. They didn't pay him $60 Million Dollars to be a 3rd down back and kick returner.Just think if he returned kicks AND was the starter at RB.........think he might score double digit TD's???I do.Just my .02

Pretty good assessment.

 

[Gr00vus]

Bush averaged 8.9 yards per carry in college. That is ASTOUNDING.Granted he had a great offensive line and offense, but you can't say the guy isn't just simply amazing.with a decent passing game, and a RB who is already having knee swelling, Bush could be the biggest fantasy rookie ever....I personally think Bush, WITH a decent passing attack, could be a top 10 RB, if Deuce's knee problems persist. They didn't pay him $60 Million Dollars to be a 3rd down back and kick returner.Just think if he returned kicks AND was the starter at RB.........think he might score double digit TD's???

I'm just trying to help here, as though I'm not a USC fan, I did see many, many of their games out here in Los Angeles. Bush does have incredible talent, no question. HOWEVER, he shines in space, and at USC he very rarely, if ever, had to make his own yards. He was usually untouched through the line and often far downfield not only because he's got great accelleration but also because his team was pancacking the opposing defense anywhere near the line of scrimmage. He was in the ideal situation for his talents at USC. He didn't get many carries in obvious running situations - that was LenDale's job - and when he did he in fact struggled on too many occasions where LenDale would succeed to make me think he's going to be able to make that adjustment long term.With the Saints he's going to be in almost the complete opposite environment. The Saints line is one of the worst in the NFL, which is a double whammy because not only will Bush have much, much less space to work with and less time to work but also because Drew Brees (I'm also a die hard Charger fan) can not handle pressure - he needs around 4 to 5 seconds minimum with no one in his face to be effective. That indicates to me the passing game is going to struggle. It may mean more dump off passes to Bush, but I think in the balance a less than average passing game is going to hurt Bush much more than it's going to help him statistically.He will get his on kick returns though, just as he did in college.When I see Bush I see Eric Metcalf - maybe a bigger version, but still essentially Eric Metcalf. Now Eric Metcalf was a darn good player, who I think was never utilized correctly, but he never seemed to make it "big time" in the sense that he dosen't get mentioned with the greatest backs of his era. I say all this not to bash Bush, but just to attempt to temper some of the unbridled enthusaism I see around Bush. He won't be a bust, but I don't think he'll be near the top 10 either - the reality is somewhere in the middle. Adjust your plans accordingly.

 

[EBF]

Bush does have incredible talent, no question. HOWEVER, he shines in space, and at USC he very rarely, if ever, had to make his own yards.

Juking defenders doesn't qualify as "making his own yards"?A lot of people knock Bush because he's not considered a power runner, but many of the best RBs in the NFL are not power runners. If players like Tiki Barber and Clinton Portis can become elite NFL RBs then I think Bush can too.

 

[Black Label Society]

Bush averaged 8.9 yards per carry in college. That is ASTOUNDING.Granted he had a great offensive line and offense, but you can't say the guy isn't just simply amazing.with a decent passing game, and a RB who is already having knee swelling, Bush could be the biggest fantasy rookie ever....I personally think Bush, WITH a decent passing attack, could be a top 10 RB, if Deuce's knee problems persist. They didn't pay him $60 Million Dollars to be a 3rd down back and kick returner.Just think if he returned kicks AND was the starter at RB.........think he might score double digit TD's???

I'm just trying to help here, as though I'm not a USC fan, I did see many, many of their games out here in Los Angeles. Bush does have incredible talent, no question. HOWEVER, he shines in space, and at USC he very rarely, if ever, had to make his own yards. He was usually untouched through the line and often far downfield not only because he's got great accelleration but also because his team was pancacking the opposing defense anywhere near the line of scrimmage. He was in the ideal situation for his talents at USC. He didn't get many carries in obvious running situations - that was LenDale's job - and when he did he in fact struggled on too many occasions where LenDale would succeed to make me think he's going to be able to make that adjustment long term.With the Saints he's going to be in almost the complete opposite environment. The Saints line is one of the worst in the NFL, which is a double whammy because not only will Bush have much, much less space to work with and less time to work but also because Drew Brees (I'm also a die hard Charger fan) can not handle pressure - he needs around 4 to 5 seconds minimum with no one in his face to be effective. That indicates to me the passing game is going to struggle. It may mean more dump off passes to Bush, but I think in the balance a less than average passing game is going to hurt Bush much more than it's going to help him statistically.He will get his on kick returns though, just as he did in college.When I see Bush I see Eric Metcalf - maybe a bigger version, but still essentially Eric Metcalf. Now Eric Metcalf was a darn good player, who I think was never utilized correctly, but he never seemed to make it "big time" in the sense that he dosen't get mentioned with the greatest backs of his era. I say all this not to bash Bush, but just to attempt to temper some of the unbridled enthusaism I see around Bush. He won't be a bust, but I don't think he'll be near the top 10 either - the reality is somewhere in the middle. Adjust your plans accordingly.

Honestly, I can see some of your points. I remember the Championship game, where Bush just couldn't seem to get going and White was just bulldozing guys and gaining positive yards.That being said, Bush will be in a pro offense, where he'll be FORCED to run through the holes they (try to) make for him. He'll be coached much better, and not allowed to freelance quite so much.Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to spend $20 in my auction for him, but if he can be had cheaper, he's worthy as a #3 RB, which HUGE upside. I think he'll transition just fine into the NFL, but I do agree with some of your points. Very valid.

 

[ImTheScientist]

Bush averaged 8.9 yards per carry in college. That is ASTOUNDING.Granted he had a great offensive line and offense, but you can't say the guy isn't just simply amazing.with a decent passing game, and a RB who is already having knee swelling, Bush could be the biggest fantasy rookie ever....I personally think Bush, WITH a decent passing attack, could be a top 10 RB, if Deuce's knee problems persist. They didn't pay him $60 Million Dollars to be a 3rd down back and kick returner.Just think if he returned kicks AND was the starter at RB.........think he might score double digit TD's???

I'm just trying to help here, as though I'm not a USC fan, I did see many, many of their games out here in Los Angeles. Bush does have incredible talent, no question. HOWEVER, he shines in space, and at USC he very rarely, if ever, had to make his own yards. He was usually untouched through the line and often far downfield not only because he's got great accelleration but also because his team was pancacking the opposing defense anywhere near the line of scrimmage. He was in the ideal situation for his talents at USC. He didn't get many carries in obvious running situations - that was LenDale's job - and when he did he in fact struggled on too many occasions where LenDale would succeed to make me think he's going to be able to make that adjustment long term.With the Saints he's going to be in almost the complete opposite environment. The Saints line is one of the worst in the NFL, which is a double whammy because not only will Bush have much, much less space to work with and less time to work but also because Drew Brees (I'm also a die hard Charger fan) can not handle pressure - he needs around 4 to 5 seconds minimum with no one in his face to be effective. That indicates to me the passing game is going to struggle. It may mean more dump off passes to Bush, but I think in the balance a less than average passing game is going to hurt Bush much more than it's going to help him statistically.He will get his on kick returns though, just as he did in college.When I see Bush I see Eric Metcalf - maybe a bigger version, but still essentially Eric Metcalf. Now Eric Metcalf was a darn good player, who I think was never utilized correctly, but he never seemed to make it "big time" in the sense that he dosen't get mentioned with the greatest backs of his era. I say all this not to bash Bush, but just to attempt to temper some of the unbridled enthusaism I see around Bush. He won't be a bust, but I don't think he'll be near the top 10 either - the reality is somewhere in the middle. Adjust your plans accordingly.

I believe he will be great .... however ..... lets say he needs to be in space ...... see Brian Westbrook. They will find ways to get him the ball in space if running between the tackles is difficult for him. Westbrook has been a top 10 RB in the past. I feel like Bush will end up being used much like Marshall Faulk was. He is one of the most amazing college football players I have ever seen. Can't wait to see him on ESPN week one after a 50 yard run to the HOUSE!

 

[jurb26]

Honestly, I can see some of your points. I remember the Championship game, where Bush just couldn't seem to get going and White was just bulldozing guys and gaining positive yards.

This to me is just so very telling about just how great a player Bush is/was. The common perception is that he did not play well or "get it going" vs Texas, the #2 D in the country yet this was his stat line:13 carries, 82 yds, 6.3 ypc, 1 TD rushing, 6 rec, 95 yds, 15.8 yprThats 177 total yds and a TD in what is considered a poor performance for Bush.FWIW, White:20 carries, 124 yds, 6.2 ypc, 3 TDs, no rec stats.

 

[dickey moe]

I was high on Deuce during the off-season, but with the Bush signing, and with his slow recovery, he has his work cut out for him. Even if his ADP falls, he likely will be picked up before I'd take him, and probably won't be there later on to represent any good value. If there's anything I want for my RB2, it's upside -- and with Deuce now having to compete with Bush, that's looking like less and less of a probability.

 

[Z-Dog]

I don't like McAllister for this year. RBs coming off ACLs don't do well, I think that's an established fact. But in keepers Deuce has terrific value imo. I don't think he will stay in NO for long, but I expect him to physically recover and be ready to regain his status as a top RB in 2007. I'm hoping to sneak off with him at half price in my auction.

 

[Black Label Society]

Honestly, I can see some of your points. I remember the Championship game, where Bush just couldn't seem to get going and White was just bulldozing guys and gaining positive yards.

This to me is just so very telling about just how great a player Bush is/was. The common perception is that he did not play well or "get it going" vs Texas, the #2 D in the country yet this was his stat line:13 carries, 82 yds, 6.3 ypc, 1 TD rushing, 6 rec, 95 yds, 15.8 yprThats 177 total yds and a TD in what is considered a poor performance for Bush.FWIW, White:20 carries, 124 yds, 6.2 ypc, 3 TDs, no rec stats.

Also, FWIW, I'm targeting White later in the draft. Chris Brown will lose his job by week 2 if not earlier IMO.White has a chip on his shoulder, and considering that his pro O coordinator was his college O Coordinator, there's reason to believe he'll be the feature back, and a horse to boot.

 

[NoFBinLA]

If Bush lives up to the hype, 80-20 Reggie by week 4. The superior talent will get the call. Golaline carriers maybe a differewnt story.

80% of what? Total team carries? Bush will be fortunate to get 250 touches this year.ipedream:

With the versitility of Bush, I would say 250 is highly attainable. Caddy had near 300 last year and Brown had over 240. Niether are the player that Bush is.

And this is based on what? He hasn't even played a down in the NFL!

that's a common trait among rookies

Very true joffer, very true.

My opinion: I think Bush has great talent. I don't think he'll push McAllister aside completely unless there is a physical setback. I think the Saints will try to use both men as much as possible - they will likely HAVE to move Duece (heavy contract IIRC) and will need him to play enough to show that knee won't be an issue long term.

But I think Bush will get more than enough touches to be worth a look this year - I think RB2 isn't insane to think as upside. I wouldn't count on RB1 numbers.

 

[Gr00vus]

That being said, Bush will be in a pro offense, where he'll be FORCED to run through the holes they (try to) make for him. He'll be coached much better, and not allowed to freelance quite so much.

I understand what you're saying, but He's going from the second best team in NCAA football, to possibly the worst team in the NFL. As far as being coached better, I don't see why that is necessarily so - the jury's very much out on that one. That's a huge change, and it's going to have a huge impact on how he does. People like to compare him to Barry, but Barry had average to very good linemen in front of him (a couple of pro-bowl seasons in there for some of those guys) and an offensive/blocking scheme custom built for his unique talents. At present Bush has neither thing going for him. It would also be a mistake to attempt to curtail his freelancing much too - that is his strong suit.

Juking defenders doesn't qualify as "making his own yards"?A lot of people knock Bush because he's not considered a power runner, but many of the best RBs in the NFL are not power runners. If players like Tiki Barber and Clinton Portis can become elite NFL RBs then I think Bush can too.

Juking works great given space, but when the hole is collapsing all juking does is get you tackled by the guy next to the guy you juked - different skill for a different situation. Bush is going to be encountering more collapsing holes than wide open spaces than he has been accustomed to, I have not seen him display skills in that area that make me think he's going to be successful in that situation.Tiki and Clinton are great (as can be said for most great backs) given the right supporting cast, the right scheme and the right application of their talents. I don't see all of those things lining up for Bush this year. But he will make the highlight reel many times on kick returns - make sure your league gives you credit for return yards and return tds if you're drafting him. Elite backs, in terms of NFL history, are the guys who could make it pay whoever they were playing for, with whoever they were playing with, against whoever it was they were playing, guys like Payton, Campbell, Brown, Simpson, Dickerson - there aren't many of those, and I'm no where near ready to put Bush or Portis or Barber in their class.

 

[Blackjacks]

Honestly, I can see some of your points. I remember the Championship game, where Bush just couldn't seem to get going and White was just bulldozing guys and gaining positive yards.

This to me is just so very telling about just how great a player Bush is/was. The common perception is that he did not play well or "get it going" vs Texas, the #2 D in the country yet this was his stat line:13 carries, 82 yds, 6.3 ypc, 1 TD rushing, 6 rec, 95 yds, 15.8 yprThats 177 total yds and a TD in what is considered a poor performance for Bush.FWIW, White:20 carries, 124 yds, 6.2 ypc, 3 TDs, no rec stats.

I've stated this fact as well. Everyone says he didn't have a great game and Lendale did yet he had lesser touches and 50 more yards. Also if the dumb ___ for USC could have handled an easy toss that would have gone done as one of the most heads up plays in championship history. That play wasn't Bush's fault, he hit the guy in the hands. I do however agree that Bush does need some room to work with and might struggle out of the gate. But I think this can be said about any player. Their are few players that can make their own room. If they are not getting holes name 5 players in the nfl today that could make their own space.

 

[ImTheScientist]

The Saints ranked 18th in the NFL in rushing and 20th in total offense. This was with Antwan Smith as their running back and Bowman/Brooks at QB. Bush and Brees are huge improvements over last year at each of those positions, include a healthy Joe Horn and things are not that bad.

Bush has been the best player at every level he has ever played at (FACT)! 8.9 yards per carry against top college (FACT)! Size?? So he doesn't weigh 220 lbs. Barber, Portis, Dunn, Westbrook, Faulk all backs who did not weigh much but have had success in the last 4 years. Why can't Bush do the same?

Oh wait ....... because he has great juke moves he can't run inside ..... I forgot.

 

[Blackjacks]

I saw him run inside last year. But if you can go outside like he does why go inside. Was Barry Sanders not really that good because he didn't run inside. I say do what you do real good.

 

[Gr00vus]

The Saints ranked 18th in the NFL in rushing and 20th in total offense. This was with Antwan Smith as their running back and Bowman/Brooks at QB. Bush and Brees are huge improvements over last year at each of those positions, include a healthy Joe Horn and things are not that bad.

I don't see how stating their poor rushing ranking from last year helps an argument for Bush? Also like I said, I don't think Brees is going to thrive in N.O. - I think Brooks may actually be better than Brees in that situation, so no, no upgrade there I'm afraid.

Bush has been the best player at every level he has ever played at (FACT)! 8.9 yards per carry against top college (FACT)! Size?? So he doesn't weigh 220 lbs. Barber, Portis, Dunn, Westbrook, Faulk all backs who did not weigh much but have had success in the last 4 years. Why can't Bush do the same?

I addressed this already, but to sum up again, for this season, he's not going into a situation that's favorable for his skils.

Oh wait ....... because he has great juke moves he can't run inside ..... I forgot.

Who's saying that?I'm saying, having seen him play extensively while he was at USC, he did not display the skills/abilities it takes to be successful in that area, and that when given the opportunity to perform in that area he did not do very well - in stark constrast to his very own teammate's performance on the very same team in the very same situations. Thus based on his past average to poor peformance in that area I feel comfortable thinking he will remain that way going forward. Now that could change if he worked on it possibly (though I personally feel he just isn't that kind of back and even with much work would probably only be average at it), but for now I think it stands that that area is a weak point for Bush.Like I said, I'm just trying to bring a little more topics for consideration to light here - nothing personal. I'm not saying he's not going to have a nice NFL carreer. I just think some folks have gotten a little overwrought about his prospects this season. I suppose for most of those people, they've already made their decison and seem to have gotten religion about it - so I guess I'm hoping to give those who still have open minds about this some counter points to chew on.I'll bow out now as I'm not bringing anything new to the table on this one at this point.