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Devin Hester is a better football player then Jamaal Charles? (1 Viewer)

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T with T

T with T

Footballguy
This is Idiotic to me and should definatly give the rankings that are supposedly done by the players any credibility... NFL Network actually has the nerve to have Hester ranked higer then Charles...that is hilarious, I don't care who you are prove me wrong????? am I not seeing something?

 
There are arguably 5 or 6 players who can do what Charles does, while there's maybe one (Cribbs) who is comparable to Hester.

Lists though, who cares right.

 
The list has been discredited pretty heavily. They surveyed like 400 players and asked them to list the top 20 players in the nfl. No doubr several of them specifically tried to diversify their picks (not just pick 5 qbs, 10 wr, and 5 rb. Instead pick one or two from.each position). This gives a guy like hester a lot of votes because guys think "damn, hesters a great returner, I hate facing him lets put him on the list." The list is a joke, it means nothing

 
'D.J. said:
The list has been discredited pretty heavily. They surveyed like 400 players and asked them to list the top 20 players in the nfl. No doubr several of them specifically tried to diversify their picks (not just pick 5 qbs, 10 wr, and 5 rb. Instead pick one or two from.each position). This gives a guy like hester a lot of votes because guys think "damn, hesters a great returner, I hate facing him lets put him on the list." The list is a joke, it means nothing
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I didn't look into the specifics on voting but if the above is true, it is a ridiculous way to measure anything.I would have rather the players vote on 1st, 2nd, and 3rd team for the players they directly compete against. It would get a little cloudy on who should list who but it would be far more insightful to have offensive lineman only list the top defensive lineman and linebackers they actually have to block and so on...
 
'T with T said:
This is Idiotic to me and should definatly give the rankings that are supposedly done by the players any credibility... NFL Network actually has the nerve to have Hester ranked higer then Charles...that is hilarious, I don't care who you are prove me wrong????? am I not seeing something?
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Charles has been in the league for what, 3 years?Hes finished top 5 once.Despite what people believe, there are 3 squads that are all equally responsible for a teams success, and Devin Hester is possibly the best special teams player ever. Jamaal Charles isnt the best anything ever yet, doubt he will be even considered.
 
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isn't it pretty obvious that the only true way to accomplish what they were trying to accomplish here was to use the VBD application.....duh....!?!?

 
For what its worth, Urlacher said in an interview last week that, as far as he knows, no bears players were even asked to participate. I wonder how many teams were not even represented?

 
'Donsmith753 said:
'SproutDaddy said:
'Shane Falco said:
McNabb is on the list, Shaub isn't
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How many winning seasons, playoff appearances, conference title wins or appearances does Schaub have again?
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Yeah but this is supposed to be rankings from last year isn't it?
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no These are supposed to be for 2011... so Jamaal charles doesn't have to have 6 top 5 finishes this is from last season to 2011 and Jamaal Charles certainly derserves to be higher then hester that's all im saying
 
Hester has had a better career, Charles is the better/more dangerous player now.

I concur with the masses, this list is laughable.

 
It's obviously worse than ever without any free agency or camps to discuss on air, but I don't know how NFL Network gets away with such overall poor programming. Or, I mean, I do know - it's because the league owns it - but the lack of effort to improve the content baffles me. There is no reason to ever broadcast the "1987 Cleveland Browns yearbook" during daylight hours. Lists are boring.

There are so many indie blogs or sites with fairly advanced, high quality audio/video content that could easily become shows. Run them in 11 minute segments, two per half hour of airtime.

 
The thing is a joke. Rodgers at 11? Vick at 20? Its supposed to be just about last and this year, and those two were the best in the game last year.

 
The list is based on who NFL players think are the best - it's not necessarily scientific (or accurate) - just interesting. It's also to fill air time and get people talking during the lockout (dare I say... success?)

 
I think we as roto guys automatically assume the rest of the world sees things in roto terms as we do.

That being said, what is the criteria for being jugded a "better" player?

Without knowing that, you might as well be saying one is better because he is a sharper dresser.

 
'eakfootball said:
The thing is a joke. Rodgers at 11? Vick at 20? Its supposed to be just about last and this year, and those two were the best in the game last year.
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People keep saying this and its incorrect. The top 100 NFL Players that was put together by the NFL was about 2010. The one that was done by the players right now is who are the top 100 active players as of last year, not their 2010 performance but career thus far if still active.I agree with Rodgers at 11, but how does Vick even get into the top 40.
 
To be fair, Devin Hester is going to be in the NFL hall of fame. Charles needs to do what he's done for about 8 more years to get into that building. Plus he's never done anything other than split time.

 
'Sabertooth said:
To be fair, Devin Hester is going to be in the NFL hall of fame. Charles needs to do what he's done for about 8 more years to get into that building. Plus he's never done anything other than split time.
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This, if you go by career, charles isnt even the best rb on the chiefs.
 
I think too many on this board are looking at this from a stats/fantasy point of view from last year. If I had to make an educated guess, the players who voted did so from a talent/"what they've done in their career thus far" perspective. No matter how much of a stud you think Charles is, the guy hasn't done much in his career.

Anyone have a link on exactly how many players and who voted?

 
Hester has about zero percent chance of getting into the Hall of Fame.

They don't reward return men, even the very, very good ones.

 
'SproutDaddy said:
I think too many on this board are looking at this from a stats/fantasy point of view from last year. If I had to make an educated guess, the players who voted did so from a talent/"what they've done in their career thus far" perspective. No matter how much of a stud you think Charles is, the guy hasn't done much in his career.Anyone have a link on exactly how many players and who voted?
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NFL.com may say how if you haven't been watching the show but basically they polled 400 current players and asked them to rank their top 20 players based on last year (hence McNabb's "career" stats are irrelevant). from that, they complied the list of 100
 
With the NFL records that he holds, Hester has to be considered the greatest returner ever. I'd say he has a really good chance to make it in, especially if he's able to add to what he's done. How many return guys have made it in?

 
'SproutDaddy said:
With the NFL records that he holds, Hester has to be considered the greatest returner ever. I'd say he has a really good chance to make it in, especially if he's able to add to what he's done. How many return guys have made it in?
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strictly return guys....think it's zero....probably one of the greatest returners ever...Eric Metcalf ain't in....put up over 17,000 total yards...finished his career with 2,392 rushing yards, 541 receptions for 5,572 yards, 3,453 punt return yards, and 5,813 yards returning kickoffs....he also scored 55 touchdowns(12 rushing, 31 receiving, 10 punt returns, 2 kickoff returns)......he is the only player ever to have 7,000+ yards on offense and 7000+ yards on kickoff/punt returns....Hester has some work to do.....I'll give you that Hester may go down as the best return man ever.....but it ain't gonna make him a hall of famer.....
 
'Sabertooth said:
'Stinkin Ref said:
'SproutDaddy said:
'Stinkin Ref said:
Devin Hester is not a hall of famer.....
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I'm not a Bear's fan, and I think you're wrong.
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he's done nothing as a WR and has 14 return TD's.....hard for specialists to get in...
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He's the best returner of all time already. He's got a long career ahead of him.
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I'll give you that.....no problem....but it doesn't mean he gets into the hall of fame....Joe Schmoo may have been the greatest long snapper of all time but he ain't in.....
 
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'Sabertooth said:
'Stinkin Ref said:
'SproutDaddy said:
'Stinkin Ref said:
Devin Hester is not a hall of famer.....
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I'm not a Bear's fan, and I think you're wrong.
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he's done nothing as a WR and has 14 return TD's.....hard for specialists to get in...
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He's the best returner of all time already. He's got a long career ahead of him.
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Depending on how these new kickoff rules start to play out, he may never get another kickoff return for a TD ever again...
 
Brian Mitchell and Eric Metcalf have never sniffed HOF consideration. Hester, at this point, has no shot save for a consideration by the veterans committee a long time from now. Now if you want to play the extrapolation game and wonder if he would break those Herculean odds if he manages to turn his next 5 years into a mirror image of his first five? That's a different conversation potentially.

 
'finito said:
Hester in the HOF has to be a joke.
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Definatly a joke and I don't care what anyone says Charles is a stud. He has only Been in the league 3 years obviously he doesn't have that many great seasons but all I know is he dominated last two years with 5.9 ypc and 6.4 ypc... led league in YPC back to back years and is only 24. this list is stupid like multiple scores said, and the list is supposed to be top players of 2011... Your telling me that Hester will be a so called better player then Charles, who is usually top 3 or 4 dynasty pick, your insane if you think that, and secondly HESTER will not, I repeat will not make HOF. He is a crappy receiver and is only a return man.. he really only had one great season. He is Very overrated... All I was trying to do was make that point and I think it was clearly made, List sucks... lets move on..
 
I'm a bears fan. I'm not convinced hester is a hall of famer, but I watch (almost) all bears games. When hester is given the chance to play the return game (like the beginning of his career and last year), he changes the game completely. he changes how both coaches have to think on offense and defense, let alone special teams. There arent many non hall of fame players that have changed the landscape of a game like hester can. He makes coaches change their gameplans. Again, its hard to think of him as a hall of famer, but in a way he is kind of an unusual definition of a hall of famer. Someone that can step on the field and change the game consistently

 
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'Chicago Hooligan said:
It's obviously worse than ever without any free agency or camps to discuss on air, but I don't know how NFL Network gets away with such overall poor programming. Or, I mean, I do know - it's because the league owns it - but the lack of effort to improve the content baffles me. There is no reason to ever broadcast the "1987 Cleveland Browns yearbook" during daylight hours. Lists are boring.There are so many indie blogs or sites with fairly advanced, high quality audio/video content that could easily become shows. Run them in 11 minute segments, two per half hour of airtime.
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The quality of NFL network is fine. Not great, but it's ok and it gives me my football fix when I need it (which is all the time). The reason I can't watch it for long periods though is the commerials. If I have to see that one with the Falcons on the bus and that stupid, stupid, ear piercingly irritating song one more time I might just check in to the local asylum. Allisa Milano is hot and all, but I just can't stand the repetition any longer.NFL network....please for the love of everything holy and sacred in this world, change your #$%*&>! Commercials.Oh, and the list is fine, btw. Some head scratchers, but as long as Brady is #1 I'll deal. Makes for good conversation.
 
'T with T said:
'finito said:
Hester in the HOF has to be a joke.
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Definatly a joke and I don't care what anyone says Charles is a stud. He has only Been in the league 3 years obviously he doesn't have that many great seasons but all I know is he dominated last two years with 5.9 ypc and 6.4 ypc... led league in YPC back to back years and is only 24. this list is stupid like multiple scores said, and the list is supposed to be top players of 2011... Your telling me that Hester will be a so called better player then Charles, who is usually top 3 or 4 dynasty pick, your insane if you think that, and secondly HESTER will not, I repeat will not make HOF. He is a crappy receiver and is only a return man.. he really only had one great season. He is Very overrated... All I was trying to do was make that point and I think it was clearly made, List sucks... lets move on..
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You have not watched many Bears games, have you? Opposing coaches have been gameplanning around Hester that it may seem like he only has one great year, but the difference he makes goes beyond the numbers. I am not arguing for HOF, but I would definitely argue that Charles is a more replaceable football player than is Hester and I think Charles is a very good RB. Where a guy falls in a Dynasty draft is not indicative of how valuable he is to a real football team.The list is absurd, but not because of Hester being in front of Charles, IMO.

 
'MDSkinner said:
'T with T said:
'finito said:
Hester in the HOF has to be a joke.
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Definatly a joke and I don't care what anyone says Charles is a stud. He has only Been in the league 3 years obviously he doesn't have that many great seasons but all I know is he dominated last two years with 5.9 ypc and 6.4 ypc... led league in YPC back to back years and is only 24. this list is stupid like multiple scores said, and the list is supposed to be top players of 2011... Your telling me that Hester will be a so called better player then Charles, who is usually top 3 or 4 dynasty pick, your insane if you think that, and secondly HESTER will not, I repeat will not make HOF. He is a crappy receiver and is only a return man.. he really only had one great season. He is Very overrated... All I was trying to do was make that point and I think it was clearly made, List sucks... lets move on..
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You have not watched many Bears games, have you? Opposing coaches have been gameplanning around Hester that it may seem like he only has one great year, but the difference he makes goes beyond the numbers. I am not arguing for HOF, but I would definitely argue that Charles is a more replaceable football player than is Hester and I think Charles is a very good RB. Where a guy falls in a Dynasty draft is not indicative of how valuable he is to a real football team.The list is absurd, but not because of Hester being in front of Charles, IMO.
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So finding a rb that has a a Career avg of 6.0 and an avg the last two seasons with a substantial amount of carries being around 6.2 and your gonna say he is more replaceable... Barry Sanders was the greatest RB ever and is to this day idolize and talked about as being a great runner and his career was a 5.0 ypc albeit for 10 straight years... Im not ready to say Charles is Barry but he is pretty irreplaceable if you ask me and when he was on the field the Chiefs looked like a different team. I can't count on one hand how many times Charles got snuffed tds which would have made him look even better, when he ran the ball all the way down to see TJones fail at the goalline, and settle for a fg. Charles is gameplanned for also every week and can change the game in the RUNNING dept, RECEIVING dept and is a decent blocker. I disagree totally, Hester is the more replacable player, Very overrated, JC is a special talent that doesn't come around often, sorry dude.

 
some people are in denial and in this mindset that Charles is fragile and can't take more carries when in fact in 09 when he avg 23 touches he still avg 5.9 ypc... he had 6.4 ypc with 230 carries in 2010....

9 games 190 carries which equate to a little over 20 per game at 5.9 clip and

16 games 230 carries about 14 carries a game.... if charles got goalline and carried the ball 280 times he would be number 1 player in the league

At the rate charles received carries them last nine games, that would equate to about 300 for a full 16 games... so lets say he for instance had 275 carries x 5.9 = 1622 . he can also add 45-50 catches for another 500-600 yards with about 10-12 tds if given opp as he actually had a way higher turnover/success rate then TJONES but the chiefs org was stupid and played games I think to keep him fresh in there minds whatever it was it was stupid. For someone to call a punt returner more important then JC is a complete shame and hopefully people will wake up to Charles top 5 player

 
'T with T said:
some people are in denial and in this mindset that Charles is fragile and can't take more carries when in fact in 09 when he avg 23 touches he still avg 5.9 ypc... he had 6.4 ypc with 230 carries in 2010....

9 games 190 carries which equate to a little over 20 per game at 5.9 clip and

16 games 230 carries about 14 carries a game.... if charles got goalline and carried the ball 280 times he would be number 1 player in the league

At the rate charles received carries them last nine games, that would equate to about 300 for a full 16 games... so lets say he for instance had 275 carries x 5.9 = 1622 . he can also add 45-50 catches for another 500-600 yards with about 10-12 tds if given opp as he actually had a way higher turnover/success rate then TJONES but the chiefs org was stupid and played games I think to keep him fresh in there minds whatever it was it was stupid. For someone to call a punt returner more important then JC is a complete shame and hopefully people will wake up to Charles top 5 player
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Why would this ever happen, Thomas Jones is one of the best bruisers in the league.
 
'shortbow said:
'T with T said:
some people are in denial and in this mindset that Charles is fragile and can't take more carries when in fact in 09 when he avg 23 touches he still avg 5.9 ypc... he had 6.4 ypc with 230 carries in 2010....

9 games 190 carries which equate to a little over 20 per game at 5.9 clip and

16 games 230 carries about 14 carries a game.... if charles got goalline and carried the ball 280 times he would be number 1 player in the league

At the rate charles received carries them last nine games, that would equate to about 300 for a full 16 games... so lets say he for instance had 275 carries x 5.9 = 1622 . he can also add 45-50 catches for another 500-600 yards with about 10-12 tds if given opp as he actually had a way higher turnover/success rate then TJONES but the chiefs org was stupid and played games I think to keep him fresh in there minds whatever it was it was stupid. For someone to call a punt returner more important then JC is a complete shame and hopefully people will wake up to Charles top 5 player
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Why would this ever happen, Thomas Jones is one of the best bruisers in the league.
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Was...
 
'Jason Wood said:
Brian Mitchell and Eric Metcalf have never sniffed HOF consideration. Hester, at this point, has no shot save for a consideration by the veterans committee a long time from now. Now if you want to play the extrapolation game and wonder if he would break those Herculean odds if he manages to turn his next 5 years into a mirror image of his first five? That's a different conversation potentially.
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Those guys, quite frankly, aren't in Hester's league.
 
'Jason Wood said:
Brian Mitchell and Eric Metcalf have never sniffed HOF consideration. Hester, at this point, has no shot save for a consideration by the veterans committee a long time from now. Now if you want to play the extrapolation game and wonder if he would break those Herculean odds if he manages to turn his next 5 years into a mirror image of his first five? That's a different conversation potentially.
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While it is true that no return man is in the HoF, Devin Hester is vastly better than Brian Mitchell or Eric Metcalf ever were while returning punts and kicks. It isn't even close. Punt Returns Yards/Ret. TD's Kickoff Returns Yards/Ret. TD's

Brian Mitchell: 463 10.8 9 607 23.1 4

Eric Metcalf: 351 9.8 10 280 20.8 2

Devin Hester: 178 12.4 10 113 24.1 4

Neither Mitchell nor Metcalf had nearly as big of an impact on their team as Hester. In order to keep the ball out of Hesters' hands, teams are willing to squib kick it and allow a better average starting field position (when Hester doesn't touch the ball), rather than allow Hester to return it and allow a worse average starting field position. Why? The change that he scores is too great.

While I'll give you that Mitchell and Metcalf never sniffed the HoF, nor should they. However, there is a first for everything. Hester would have to get in as the greatest kick returner ever. If he continues to do what he has done, I think Hester may just force the committee's hand and make him the first player elected into the HoF solely on their kick/punt return ability.

Hester's return ability is game changing. Jamaal Charles is a good HB. But there is no question that Hester does more for his team than Charles does. If Charles doesn't have the ball in his hands, he isn't doing anything. But teams go out of their way to try and prevent Hester from touching the ball and ultimately are willing to give up more average starting field position in order to do it. That's talent.

 
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