DFS advertising (3 Viewers)

[Peyton Marino]

I just won $2 million playing DraftKings, and I don't even have a DraftKings account. ITS THAT EASY!!!!!!!!

 

[bagger]

Another gambling site where someone will steal a bunch of people's money or will go under as they won't be profitable once the fad ends.

 

[Willie Neslon]

Can't believe they got Ed Norton

 

[Aerial Assault]

Another gambling site where someone will steal a bunch of people's money or will go under as they won't be profitable once the fad ends.

Agree with this take. And not only that, but here there's the very real threat of governmental intervention of some sort as well. This whole thing practically screams "unsustainable fad," and the inyourfrigging face advertising isn't making me want to root for its success. But if some people enjoy it, to each his own, I guess.

 

[urbanhack]

Another gambling site where someone will steal a bunch of people's money or will go under as they won't be profitable once the fad ends.

Wall Street Sports - Never Forget!

 

[eoMMan]

Another gambling site where someone will steal a bunch of people's money or will go under as they won't be profitable once the fad ends.

Then don't play?

 

[RUSF18]

If you aren't in this year, you prob never will be. Furthermore the attrition rate has to be somewhere in the 10-30% range, maybe higher.

For the last several years (i.e., the industry's whole history), the number of players has tripled or quadrupled each year.

That means that, at any given time, the large majority of the people playing are brand new to the game.

I don't know what the attrition rate is. The large majority of players are losing players, but that's the same with sports betting, poker, etc., and people keep playing those games anyway.

This is understood and speaks to my point... The hockey stick eventually stops - For some it just slows down to typical growth. IMO, with the in your face marketing blasts this year, everyone knows them and what they do. If you aren't on board now, you prob never will be. With all the marketing and new players coming on this year, the attrition will be huge (on a numbers basis, IDK if the percentage basis increases/decreases, though if I had to bet, I'd say increases) and they'll need to spend 2-3x next year to recoup new players. Just my .02.

I'm with you here. People who were losing before were the degenerate/heavy FF types. Now with all the advertising, they're likely pulling in more people who just play in one league with their friends/co-workers and once those guys wash out, and word spreads, it's going to keep getting harder to grow the business. IMO.

 

[Zegras11]

Daily Fantasy Sports.

It IS gambling; I don't care what congress says. It has filled the void left by online poker... and then some, perhaps.

I lost just short of 5k last NFL season, got red hot with NBA and went up almost 30k.

I'm not close to addicted or compulsive about it. As soon as NBA got real tough last Feb, I slowed way down. I probably won't play more than $20 this weekend because I want more information than we have from the off and pre-seasons. There's so much educated expert geek nerd advice available for nfl dfs players that the game is very difficult, the field level, luck an overwhelming factor, jmho.

Golf and Bowling Tournaments are legally gambling also as there is a fee paid to win a prize. They all three have carve outs in that make them legal almost everywhere. Fantasy Sports has clear definitions that must be met in the UEIGA.

 

[Mystery Achiever]

CNBC is also covering this topic all day incl. appearances from Fanduel and Draftkings CEOs.

Here's a fun stat: 1.3% of players win 90% of the money.

I think the online poker analogy works. Seems like the emphasis is on winning money much more than in "regular" ff. That is not a motivator for me and I am not a gambler, so does not appeal much to me. I did click out of curiosity on a promo for a free game. $2 payout. . As result, my browsers are now also flooded with ads.

 

[[icon]]

FBG's own Assani Fisher was doing so well at DFS he's quick playing poker to focus on DFS for a living.

 

[fantasycurse42]

CNBC is also covering this topic all day incl. appearances from Fanduel and Draftkings CEOs.

Here's a fun stat: 1.3% of players win 90% of the money.

Another reason I have zero interest... If I was to take it seriously, I'd find an MIT nerd, pay him $20k to design an algorithm for selecting players and then kick some ###.

I'm sure by the time my program was flawless, the sites would shut down. Pretty sure there are a bunch of bots already in the mix.

 

[MattFancy]

CNBC is also covering this topic all day incl. appearances from Fanduel and Draftkings CEOs.

Here's a fun stat: 1.3% of players win 90% of the money.

Another reason I have zero interest... If I was to take it seriously, I'd find an MIT nerd, pay him $20k to design an algorithm for selecting players and then kick some ###.

I'm sure by the time my program was flawless, the sites would shut down. Pretty sure there are a bunch of bots already in the mix.

I thought I read a couple months ago (believe someone on here mentioned it) that DraftKings and Fanduel allow bots

 

[urbanhack]

CNBC is also covering this topic all day incl. appearances from Fanduel and Draftkings CEOs.

Here's a fun stat: 1.3% of players win 90% of the money.

Another reason I have zero interest... If I was to take it seriously, I'd find an MIT nerd, pay him $20k to design an algorithm for selecting players and then kick some ###.

I'm sure by the time my program was flawless, the sites would shut down. Pretty sure there are a bunch of bots already in the mix.

Agreed. This is why I stopped putting any serious money into it. I play a few $1 tourneys here and there, but I've been using FanDuel to run an office pool each week with 15 to 20 guys setting up a private league for $5 and paying out the top 3.

 

[oso diablo]

have been told that DK and FD bought every single available ad slot for the entire month of September on the local sports radio station.

 

[urbanhack]

FBG's own Assani Fisher was doing so well at DFS he's quick playing poker to focus on DFS for a living.

[icy~pots]

 

[[icon]]

CNBC is also covering this topic all day incl. appearances from Fanduel and Draftkings CEOs.

Here's a fun stat: 1.3% of players win 90% of the money.

Another reason I have zero interest... If I was to take it seriously, I'd find an MIT nerd, pay him $20k to design an algorithm for selecting players and then kick some ###.

I'm sure by the time my program was flawless, the sites would shut down. Pretty sure there are a bunch of bots already in the mix.

I thought I read a couple months ago (believe someone on here mentioned it) that DraftKings and Fanduel allow bots

yep

https://dfsreport.com/5244/scripts-bots-and-draftkings-terms-of-service/

 

[[icon]]

FBG's own Assani Fisher was doing so well at DFS he's quick playing poker to focus on DFS for a living.

[icy~pots]

He had some pioneering shtick here... Icy Pots, hot oats, etc... Brilliant dude.

 

[eoMMan]

CNBC is also covering this topic all day incl. appearances from Fanduel and Draftkings CEOs.

Here's a fun stat: 1.3% of players win 90% of the money.

I think the online poker analogy works. Seems like the emphasis is on winning money much more than in "regular" ff. That is not a motivator for me and I am not a gambler, so does not appeal much to me. I did click out of curiosity on a promo for a free game. $2 payout. . As result, my browsers are now also flooded with ads.

I think that stat is a little misleading because when you first read it, you think "Wow, there are people out there that are REALLY good at this. I don't stand a chance".

When it's really all about volume. There are players, such as Condia, who have tons of money out there each week. So to say someone "won" let's say $40k in a given week, really isn't all that impressive when you don't consider what was wagered.

IMO

 

[Willie Neslon]

CNBC is also covering this topic all day incl. appearances from Fanduel and Draftkings CEOs.

Here's a fun stat: 1.3% of players win 90% of the money.

I think the online poker analogy works. Seems like the emphasis is on winning money much more than in "regular" ff. That is not a motivator for me and I am not a gambler, so does not appeal much to me. I did click out of curiosity on a promo for a free game. $2 payout. . As result, my browsers are now also flooded with ads.

That is a misleading stat.

 

[James Daulton]

CNBC is also covering this topic all day incl. appearances from Fanduel and Draftkings CEOs.

Here's a fun stat: 1.3% of players win 90% of the money.

I think the online poker analogy works. Seems like the emphasis is on winning money much more than in "regular" ff. That is not a motivator for me and I am not a gambler, so does not appeal much to me. I did click out of curiosity on a promo for a free game. $2 payout. . As result, my browsers are now also flooded with ads.

That is a misleading stat.

I'll bet that 1.3% of players bet 85% of the money as well.

 

[[icon]]

Here's the biggest issue with entry of Bots in the sphere:

There is some degree of separation in having access to it but the real separator will be scripts combined with lineup algorithms that can make lineup edits on the fly close to contest lock or make late swaps when another set of games is about to kick off that take into account all opponents lineups (and potential lineups) as scenarios for how to best edit their massive amount of teams. This would be able to take into account all the latest information from late breaking injury news to how opponent’s players have already performed, to countless other factors and data points and use that info as inputs in order to make the best pivots to put that DFS player in the best position to win the GPP tournament. That is the real skill separator that we will see develop from this.

Essentially the pros will be able to scan both lineups, factor in the thursday or early game scores, late breaking injury updates, and possible outcomes, then optimize the pro's lineup for a win..... and it can do this on the fly between games to hundreds of lineups in real time.

Short of playing stakes that pros wouldn't (hopefully) bother with, like $2.50 or $5 games.... I can't see any way this doesn't eventually eliminate the chance of the casual player to make money.

 

[Aerial Assault]

CNBC is also covering this topic all day incl. appearances from Fanduel and Draftkings CEOs.

Here's a fun stat: 1.3% of players win 90% of the money.

Another reason I have zero interest... If I was to take it seriously, I'd find an MIT nerd, pay him $20k to design an algorithm for selecting players and then kick some ###.

I'm sure by the time my program was flawless, the sites would shut down. Pretty sure there are a bunch of bots already in the mix.

This just gets better and better. Now if you do DFS, you're competing against bots. Yeah, I'm going to continue to take a huge pass on this rockin' new phenomenon.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

CNBC is also covering this topic all day incl. appearances from Fanduel and Draftkings CEOs.

Here's a fun stat: 1.3% of players win 90% of the money.

Another reason I have zero interest... If I was to take it seriously, I'd find an MIT nerd, pay him $20k to design an algorithm for selecting players and then kick some ###.

I'm sure by the time my program was flawless, the sites would shut down. Pretty sure there are a bunch of bots already in the mix.

You don't need $20K for that; $32.95 will do the trick.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Here's the biggest issue with entry of Bots in the sphere:

There is some degree of separation in having access to it but the real separator will be scripts combined with lineup algorithms that can make lineup edits on the fly close to contest lock or make late swaps when another set of games is about to kick off that take into account all opponents lineups (and potential lineups) as scenarios for how to best edit their massive amount of teams. This would be able to take into account all the latest information from late breaking injury news to how opponent’s players have already performed, to countless other factors and data points and use that info as inputs in order to make the best pivots to put that DFS player in the best position to win the GPP tournament. That is the real skill separator that we will see develop from this.

Essentially the pros will be able to scan both lineups, factor in the thursday or early game scores, late breaking injury updates, and possible outcomes, then optimize the pro's lineup for a win..... and it can do this on the fly between games to hundreds of lineups in real time.

Short of playing stakes that pros wouldn't (hopefully) bother with, like $2.50 or $5 games.... I can't see any way this doesn't eventually eliminate the chance of the casual player to make money.

I wouldn't call them bots. Some of the players who enter a zillion lineups use scripts. The advantage they gain is being able to join (FanDuel and DraftKings) or edit (DraftKings only) way more lineups than they'd be able to do by hand.

This is a problem for casual players because in a contest with 20,000 entrants, you'd really rather not play against a bunch of pros who have 1,500 entries each, crowding out all the fish. (The pros don't want to play against each other that many times, either, so it's in everyone's interest to prevent that situation.)

Scripts are a red herring, though, IMO. The solution -- if a site wants to implement one -- is not to ban scripts (which may be difficult to enforce). The solution is to cap the number of times a person is allowed to enter a given contest.

The sites already do this, but different contests have different limits. If you don't want to play against condia a zillion times -- and you shouldn't -- look for contests with a small cap on entries per person.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Short of playing stakes that pros wouldn't (hopefully) bother with, like $2.50 or $5 games.... I can't see any way this doesn't eventually eliminate the chance of the casual player to make money.

Pros enter every single contest offered at FanDuel and DraftKings.

If you want to avoid full-time pros, your best bet is to play at the smaller sites that have fewer or smaller contests only. There are a bunch of them. A lot of the pros (but not all of them) stick only to the major sites.

 

[urbanhack]

https://dfsreport.com/wp-content/uploads/dzayb-1.jpg

 

[Peyton Marino]

Short of playing stakes that pros wouldn't (hopefully) bother with, like $2.50 or $5 games.... I can't see any way this doesn't eventually eliminate the chance of the casual player to make money.

Pros enter every single contest offered at FanDuel and DraftKings.

If you want to avoid full-time pros, your best bet is to play at the smaller sites that have fewer or smaller contests only. There are a bunch of them. A lot of the pros (but not all of them) stick only to the major sites.

curious if you've heard anything about FantasyUp having trouble paying out winnings. I played a decent chunk of my action there last year since they had no rake, and they paid out fine. last night, I came across an article from July where they were having trouble paying out. they're doing no rake and a nice reload bonus again this year, so I was debating playing there again.

 

[Binky The Doormat]

The Box Score (Dan Patrick follow up show) on Audience TV had the whole show dedicated to their Fan Duel line ups and year long league.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Short of playing stakes that pros wouldn't (hopefully) bother with, like $2.50 or $5 games.... I can't see any way this doesn't eventually eliminate the chance of the casual player to make money.

Pros enter every single contest offered at FanDuel and DraftKings.

If you want to avoid full-time pros, your best bet is to play at the smaller sites that have fewer or smaller contests only. There are a bunch of them. A lot of the pros (but not all of them) stick only to the major sites.

curious if you've heard anything about FantasyUp having trouble paying out winnings. I played a decent chunk of my action there last year since they had no rake, and they paid out fine. last night, I came across an article from July where they were having trouble paying out. they're doing no rake and a nice reload bonus again this year, so I was debating playing there again.

Yes, they had a few weeks a while ago where their payouts were paused. They gave a reason that didn't make sense to me. (They said they were waiting for their next round of financing to go through, but that shouldn't matter if the player accounts were held separately from operating funds and weren't dipped into. They said that the player funds were in escrow until closing, but again, that doesn't make sense to me. It should be the buyer's funds that are in escrow, not the seller's funds.)

They started paying out promptly again about a month ago.

They will be rake-free again this football season.

IMO, they are the riskiest site to play on, given the previous (albeit temporary) problem with the payouts. But I will play there again. I did really well there last year and I expect them to have lots of overlays again. It's a risk, though.

 

[Binky The Doormat]

I bit just to get some experience with daily. Several guys in the league want to set up another league for daily and I don't want to get really caught with no experience there at all.

From everything that I have read here, it really just emphasizes what my gut and head is telling me - I will be fonder for the professionals and just another bait fish.

Using the crusher and thinking about buying the 4-for-4 DFS site info, going $10 games or less, 50/50s and a couple of head-to-head only, and joined the "rookie" contests only this week but for a couple bets. My cash management is already off since I only put in $100 each at Fan Duel and Draft Kings.

I don't gamble much other than our long time home league and 2-3 NFL games during the year so between the advertising and the the WAY expanded DFS content at FBG and other sites ...they got me. If I am tapped after a few games, I seriously doubt I will reload.

 

[General Malaise]

They must be making a ton of money to advertise this much.

I don't think this is accurate. My understanding is that they are hemorrhaging money right now.

 

[fantasycurse42]

They must be making a ton of money to advertise this much.

I don't think this is accurate. My understanding is that they are hemorrhaging money right now.

This is correct... Most marketing is prob from the VC money, which I believe has reached the nine figure range.

 

[General Malaise]

Last year, the two combined to spend $100 million, said Adam Krejcik, a managing director at Eilers Research. This year, each will spend that amount on marketing and advertising. They are spending absolutely crazy.

How the hell can neither of these companies be profitable? Unreal.

They are spending a boatload of cash getting entrenched in the market right now with an eye on future revenues... think Uber vs Lyft, though with a slightly more level playing field.

Aren't there other DFS services besides Draft Kings & FanDuel? I think I even saw a Yahoo DFS ad, but I'm not sure if it is Yahoo that runs it.

All the smaller companies are benefiting from the advertising by the big 2.

PokerStars has their own DFS now called StarsDraft. US Citizens can't play poker for money, but they can play DFS now through PokerStars. The CEO of the the company has spent exactly $0 in advertising this product and has no plans to change as he acknowledges that FanDuel and Draft Kings have too big of a lead on him. However, with 95 million registered users, he wants to offer it up as a cross sell. We'll see how long it lasts. They're offering a $10 buy-in for a $10,000 top prize in their 'big daddy' contest, but the cap is 11,950 users. They just crossed 1,000 today. Interface is excellent and I would prefer less entries to compete against even if the potential payout isn't as glamorous.

 

[General Malaise]

Haven't read the entire thread yet but will as this space fascinates me....I'm hearing that Draft Kings is buying in entries themselves to bloat the numbers of signups.

 

[17seconds]

Trying it for the first time this year. If I like it I may stop doing redraft leagues next year and go dynasty and DFS only.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

They're offering a $10 buy-in for a $10,000 top prize in their 'big daddy' contest, but the cap is 11,950 users. They just crossed 1,000 today. Interface is excellent and I would prefer less entries to compete against even if the potential payout isn't as glamorous.

The payouts will be the same in a given guaranteed contest whether 1,500 people enter or 11,950. The site will just lose a lot of money in the first scenario. That's what's called an overlay, and we players love overlays. (It looks like there will be a lot of big overlays at pretty much every site this weekend.)

 

[17seconds]

With the ads it seems DraftKings is hitting more of the casual player demographic while FanDuel is promoted more on podcasts and other outlets with informed fans.

So I'm guessing DraftKings will be softer?

 

[bagger]

Another gambling site where someone will steal a bunch of people's money or will go under as they won't be profitable once the fad ends.

Then don't play?

i don't?

 

[Fantasysports1]

A casual player will not win long term in DFS unless they are getting lineups from Pros or legit help.

As MT said, scripts are used to mass entry or arrive with various combinations based on certain criteria or filters

You really have to know your stuff if you are going to consistently create winning cash lineups. There is a definite learning curve here.

I do not think Bots are an issue really. There are no Bots that I know, some of the top players just have a ton in play.

I feel that people who do not regularly play DFS or are newer do not really understand the industry, ecosystem, etc.

 

[nirad3]

Anyone else get their directv screens freeze on a fanduel ad? It's been happening to me for a couple of weeks

No, but it's frozen on the same Lexus ad. At least twice. The first time I was passed out on the couch and thought maybe I rolled over on the remote pausing it. Second time was wide awake, but same spot on the same ad. It happens again and I'm calling DTV fo' sho'.

 

[[icon]]

PokerStars has their own DFS now called StarsDraft. US Citizens can't play poker for money, but they can play DFS now through PokerStars. The CEO of the the company has spent exactly $0 in advertising this product and has no plans to change as he acknowledges that FanDuel and Draft Kings have too big of a lead on him. However, with 95 million registered users, he wants to offer it up as a cross sell. We'll see how long it lasts. They're offering a $10 buy-in for a $10,000 top prize in their 'big daddy' contest, but the cap is 11,950 users. They just crossed 1,000 today. Interface is excellent and I would prefer less entries to compete against even if the potential payout isn't as glamorous.

This is a brilliant approach. The downside is US Football interest isn't particularly high in Pokerstars market (non-US players)... but there are enough folks doing playmoney or using proxies in the US that they might grab some traction.

Kinda funny...

I was parterned with a buddy and were developing a business plan for something very much like this in 2008-2009 before I had heard of Fanduel or Draftkings. We were initially looking at an NTN trivia type approach where you'd use your smartphone to log into an account and pick teams for the day and play against your bar as well as regional folks. Goal was to get the platform/site stable then roll out pure-online play Y2 or so.

We had gotten to the point of pricing out hardware to provide the bars as part of a billing contract, we were already signing bars on. We were in talks with web developers, had wireframed it and were working out interface and design when these guys hit the ground running (Fanduel first).

Scrapped it!

 

[eoMMan]

Fwiw, I won a $1200 tourney last year on FD and got paid no problem. Also, their customer service was great when I contacted them regarding the Form 1099 I was to receive.

 

[General Malaise]

They're offering a $10 buy-in for a $10,000 top prize in their 'big daddy' contest, but the cap is 11,950 users. They just crossed 1,000 today. Interface is excellent and I would prefer less entries to compete against even if the potential payout isn't as glamorous.

The payouts will be the same in a given guaranteed contest whether 1,500 people enter or 11,950. The site will just lose a lot of money in the first scenario. That's what's called an overlay, and we players love overlays. (It looks like there will be a lot of big overlays at pretty much every site this weekend.)

I've submitted TWO entries. #Baller

 

[General Malaise]

Anyone else get their directv screens freeze on a fanduel ad? It's been happening to me for a couple of weeks

No, but it's frozen on the same Lexus ad. At least twice. The first time I was passed out on the couch and thought maybe I rolled over on the remote pausing it. Second time was wide awake, but same spot on the same ad. It happens again and I'm calling DTV fo' sho'.

This is happening to me too! Almost always with FanDuel. I figured it was a setting in my TV and changed some options related to power saving mode or some such, but yeah....it's not just you guys. Let me know what DTV tells you.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Didn't FBG buy a stake in FanDuel a few years ago?

 

[pollardsvision]

Not into it. It strikes me as the latest dot-com craze (complete with ridiculous economics that don't make any sense) but is probably here to stay in some manner. However, I think its "hot" factor will wear off soon. And it looks to me like it's probably quasi-illegal in 10-15 states, just at a quick glance. (No moralizing intended, just an amused/bemused observation.)

The business aspect of it might be bubble-ish. None of the sites are making money right now, and while they do expect to turn a profit someday, that day may be a long way off, and it might be impossible to ever be profitable with less than a 10% rake. (I don't understand why not, as 10% seems high to me, but that's the thinking from industry insiders.)

As a hobby, though, it's not a fad. It's way more fun than season-long fantasy sports.

That's your opinion, not a fact. I personally find season-long fantasy sports much more fun and infinitely more interesting from a strategic perspective and several others.

While I personally prefer season long fantasy sports, the trend in fantasy sports (and sports in general) has always been veering towards instant gratification.

Once the ADD fantasy football people entered the fantasy baseball world, a huge chunk now do stupid weekly H2H leagues which, in terms of fantasy baseball, is a total abomination. Same reason for the rise of the NFL, really. Focus all your attention on one day (for the most part) and every game matters. MLB is trying to tap into some of that action with the stupid Wild Card game.

DFS is here to stay and will remain popular. The only reason it's popularity will level off at one point is that casual players will likely get sick of losing money at some point, but that shouldn't have a huge effect. It is gambling afterall, and people seem to keep gambling even when they aren't very good at it.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Didn't FBG buy a stake in FanDuel a few years ago?

No, we've never had a stake in any DFS site.

We did have an exclusive advertising deal with FanDuel for a couple years. (Meaning that we sold ad space exclusively to FanDuel -- not that they advertised exclusively with us. )

 

[pollardsvision]

Anyone else get their directv screens freeze on a fanduel ad? It's been happening to me for a couple of weeks

No, but it's frozen on the same Lexus ad. At least twice. The first time I was passed out on the couch and thought maybe I rolled over on the remote pausing it. Second time was wide awake, but same spot on the same ad. It happens again and I'm calling DTV fo' sho'.

This is happening to me too! Almost always with FanDuel. I figured it was a setting in my TV and changed some options related to power saving mode or some such, but yeah....it's not just you guys. Let me know what DTV tells you.

To be fair, a Fan Duel commercial is on DirecTV roughly 58 minutes of every hour, so if the signal is going to freeze, it would be hard for it not to be on a Fan Duel ad.

 

[pollardsvision]

You aren't good enough to win playing daily fantasy football

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

You aren't good enough to win playing daily fantasy football

That was a really interesting article.