THE UNDERCOVER BROTHA
Footballguy
The Job openings getting thin out there and with TJ only fetching a move up, i doubt someone pays a 1st and a 3rd for Turner. Seems like they might have to wait till 08.
Seems like they might have to wait till 08.
....and SD doesn't get squat for him in 2008 when he's a UFA, lol. They should trade him while they can still get something of good value.I don't think it's a bad thing either if you have patience. Turner will be able to go where he wants, not where San Diego feels like trading him.
... unless SD thinks he is too important a part of a team poised for a Super Bowl run.....and SD doesn't get squat for him in 2008 when he's a UFA, lol. They should trade him while they can still get something of good value.Edited to say 2008, not 2009 that Turner will be a UFA.I don't think it's a bad thing either if you have patience. Turner will be able to go where he wants, not where San Diego feels like trading him.
Did you ever think someone was gonna give up a 1st and 3rd?The Job openings getting thin out there and with TJ only fetching a move up, i doubt someone pays a 1st and a 3rd for Turner. Seems like they might have to wait till 08.
Yeah but a comp pick is nice even if its 2 years away and they will get a comp pick for Tuner. Which is one of the reasons he's staying this year. If you have to swap picks in the second round to move a guy like T. Jones an extra year and "probable" free third rounder two years from now for the NFL is actually a steal.....and SD doesn't get squat for him in 2008 when he's a UFA, lol. They should trade him while they can still get something of good value.I don't think it's a bad thing either if you have patience. Turner will be able to go where he wants, not where San Diego feels like trading him.
I thought Priest Holmes was too important a part in my fantasy team the other year too. How'd that work out for me?... unless SD thinks he is too important a part of a team poised for a Super Bowl run.....and SD doesn't get squat for him in 2008 when he's a UFA, lol. They should trade him while they can still get something of good value.Edited to say 2008, not 2009 that Turner will be a UFA.I don't think it's a bad thing either if you have patience. Turner will be able to go where he wants, not where San Diego feels like trading him.
There's nothing probable about it.Unless you have the Chargers offseason plan for 2008 in your possession, and it states they have no plans to pursue any free agents of note.Yeah but a comp pick is nice even if its 2 years away and they will get a comp pick for Tuner. Which is one of the reasons he's staying this year. If you have to swap picks in the second round to move a guy like T. Jones an extra year and "probable" free third rounder two years from now for the NFL is actually a steal.....and SD doesn't get squat for him in 2008 when he's a UFA, lol. They should trade him while they can still get something of good value.I don't think it's a bad thing either if you have patience. Turner will be able to go where he wants, not where San Diego feels like trading him.
All they have to do is lose one more person then they sign. I think for a free 4th or 3rd they'll be sure to plan ahead. Teams are pretty careful about that.There's nothing probable about it.Unless you have the Chargers offseason plan for 2008 in your possession, and it states they have no plans to pursue any free agents of note.Yeah but a comp pick is nice even if its 2 years away and they will get a comp pick for Tuner. Which is one of the reasons he's staying this year. If you have to swap picks in the second round to move a guy like T. Jones an extra year and "probable" free third rounder two years from now for the NFL is actually a steal.....and SD doesn't get squat for him in 2008 when he's a UFA, lol. They should trade him while they can still get something of good value.I don't think it's a bad thing either if you have patience. Turner will be able to go where he wants, not where San Diego feels like trading him.
I don't know if it was your intention or not, but you just proved the point in regards to what the Chargers gain by keeping Turner this year.I thought Priest Holmes was too important a part in my fantasy team the other year too. How'd that work out for me?![]()
That's not true. It has to do with salary per year, as well as all the players they sign. it's also a secret, and pretty convoluted formula, so putting them down for a 3rd nect year is a stretch.Also a stretch is the notion that they aren't going to sing a big FA because they want to get a 3rd rounder for a guy who left the year before.All they have to do is lose one more person then they sign. I think for a free 4th or 3rd they'll be sure to plan ahead. Teams are pretty careful about that.There's nothing probable about it.Unless you have the Chargers offseason plan for 2008 in your possession, and it states they have no plans to pursue any free agents of note.Yeah but a comp pick is nice even if its 2 years away and they will get a comp pick for Tuner. Which is one of the reasons he's staying this year. If you have to swap picks in the second round to move a guy like T. Jones an extra year and "probable" free third rounder two years from now for the NFL is actually a steal.....and SD doesn't get squat for him in 2008 when he's a UFA, lol. They should trade him while they can still get something of good value.I don't think it's a bad thing either if you have patience. Turner will be able to go where he wants, not where San Diego feels like trading him.
Ok granted, If they did drop a significant amount of money on a free agent that would comparatively negate a pick for Turner. I expect Turner to make a big enough splash in the free agent market next year based on his league wide hype and he’ll get a big enough contract to be in competition for the 3rd and at min get the fourth round grade based on how comp picks have been given in the past.Given that I like the Chargers options coming into next year far better with weighing the potential pick to their free agent needs far more then the devalued market for running backs as a tradable commodity. Turner would get more then Jones in a trade but the best value is simply keeping him on the team this year. If they play it even reasonably well they'll come out better in the end by waiting.That's not true. It has to do with salary per year, as well as all the players they sign. it's also a secret, and pretty convoluted formula, so putting them down for a 3rd nect year is a stretch.Also a stretch is the notion that they aren't going to sing a big FA because they want to get a 3rd rounder for a guy who left the year before.All they have to do is lose one more person then they sign. I think for a free 4th or 3rd they'll be sure to plan ahead. Teams are pretty careful about that.There's nothing probable about it.Unless you have the Chargers offseason plan for 2008 in your possession, and it states they have no plans to pursue any free agents of note.Yeah but a comp pick is nice even if its 2 years away and they will get a comp pick for Tuner. Which is one of the reasons he's staying this year. If you have to swap picks in the second round to move a guy like T. Jones an extra year and "probable" free third rounder two years from now for the NFL is actually a steal.....and SD doesn't get squat for him in 2008 when he's a UFA, lol. They should trade him while they can still get something of good value.I don't think it's a bad thing either if you have patience. Turner will be able to go where he wants, not where San Diego feels like trading him.
I have Turner in 3 leagues and got him cheap (LT2 owner in 2 of them), but if someone offered me the 1.01 or 1.02 in a dynasty league I'd jump all over it. I had him in a 4th league but I let him go cheap a couple years agoI still can't get over this, people trading a top pick for a backup.![]()
Not just a backup, but a backup that hasn't proven he can carry the load. We definitely know he can clean up in the 4th in blowout games after the best RB in the league has softened the defense.I still can't get over this, people trading a top pick for a backup.![]()
Perhaps, but as noted in other threads, if MT gets hurt, has an off year, or there are few job openings with a number of good rookie RBs, the payoff may not be nearly as big as it looks right now.Seems like they might have to wait till 08.I don't think that's such a bad thing, because they'll get a great payoff.
I don't know if it was your intention or not, but you just proved the point in regards to what the Chargers gain by keeping Turner this year.I thought Priest Holmes was too important a part in my fantasy team the other year too. How'd that work out for me?![]()
I wouldn't trade a top 2 rookie pick for Turner, and whether I'd trade the #3 is based somewhat on where Lynch lands.Regardless, the Turner owners will beI still can't get over this, people trading a top pick for a backup.![]()
The only reason Turner hasn't proven that he can carry the load at the pro level is that he happens to be behind the best RB in the league.From NFL.com:Not just a backup, but a backup that hasn't proven he can carry the load. We definitely know he can clean up in the 4th in blowout games after the best RB in the league has softened the defense.I still can't get over this, people trading a top pick for a backup.![]()
CAT G Att Yds Avg Lg TD 1st1ST QUARTER 0 10 78 7.8 25 0 52ND QUARTER 0 16 81 5.1 22 0 33RD QUARTER 0 19 97 5.1 21 0 64TH QUARTER 0 35 246 7.0 73 2 10
CAT G Att Yds Avg Lg TD 1stMARGIN 0-7 5 28 172 6.1 21 0 8MARGIN 8-14 5 28 155 5.5 25 1 11MARGIN 15+ 3 24 175 7.3 73 1 5
That all sounds great.Biggest game of the year, 3 carries? If he really has special talent, then Cam is a blind moron. 2 rb sets? Split out LT? Get Turner some touches? Be creative?Nope. Turner was sitting on his ### for most of the playoff game. 3 carries? 8 times in 2006 he had 5 or less carries. (didn't play week 12-14)I'm not saying you're wrong. Maybe Turner is going to be a top 10 RB in 2008. But if he was such a play maker, you'd think they'd find more plays for him in the offense. Listen Reggie Bush sucks at running the ball, but they worked him in. Deuce carried most of the load, and they got creative to get Reggie touches. Where was that for Turner? And in fact, LT had MORE carries then he has had in the last 4 years. With Turner coming of age, why is LT carrying the ball MORE? So my problem is, part of the "Turner is a special talent" argument is, why didn't the Chargers think so? Sure he's a great backup, worth the tender. But if Turner was so special, why didn't they take some of the load off LT? Why didn't they work Turner into the offense? Why in the biggest game of the year Turner was more or less a cheerleader? With LT breaking down in 04/05, where was Turner in 06 to take the load off? Infact they had to rely on LT MORE.I just get a sense that part of this argument is "the Chargers don't realize what they have in Turner". And that's where it gets iffy for me.The only reason Turner hasn't proven that he can carry the load at the pro level is that he happens to be behind the best RB in the league.From NFL.com:Not just a backup, but a backup that hasn't proven he can carry the load. We definitely know he can clean up in the 4th in blowout games after the best RB in the league has softened the defense.I still can't get over this, people trading a top pick for a backup.
more than half his carries came in quarters 1-3 and he was over 5 YPC carry no matter the quarter. The first quarter was actually his best quarter.Code:CAT G Att Yds Avg Lg TD 1st1ST QUARTER 0 10 78 7.8 25 0 52ND QUARTER 0 16 81 5.1 22 0 33RD QUARTER 0 19 97 5.1 21 0 64TH QUARTER 0 35 246 7.0 73 2 10
Turner was more effective when the game was out of hand, but he was still over 5 YPC no matter the game situation.Of course this is a small sample size (80 carries), but I believe you'd be hard pressed to find any NFL Insider that doesn't think that Turner is one of the 32 best RBs in the league and clearly of starter quality. Compact RBs that run as tough as he does, read holes and blocks as well as he does, and top it off with breakaway speed, are very rare. All it takes is watching Turner play, and you know immediately that he has as much potential as any rookie or college RB this side of Adrian Peterson.Code:CAT G Att Yds Avg Lg TD 1stMARGIN 0-7 5 28 172 6.1 21 0 8MARGIN 8-14 5 28 155 5.5 25 1 11MARGIN 15+ 3 24 175 7.3 73 1 5
I think the fact the Chargers have been rumored to want more then just a first rounder for Turner a good indication that they actually do realize what they have with him. The Chargers love Turner but they can't keep him, he wants to start somewhere, and I don't think there’s too much sentiment that "the Chargers don't realize what they have in Turner". And as for last year, while I do see your point, would you really have wanted to take touches away from LT if you were in the Chargers position? I don't think anyone thinks Turner is better then LT and really when you have the best back in the game and he wants the ball you give it to him no matter who’s on the bench.That all sounds great.Biggest game of the year, 3 carries? If he really has special talent, then Cam is a blind moron. 2 rb sets? Split out LT? Get Turner some touches? Be creative?Nope. Turner was sitting on his ### for most of the playoff game. 3 carries? 8 times in 2006 he had 5 or less carries. (didn't play week 12-14)I'm not saying you're wrong. Maybe Turner is going to be a top 10 RB in 2008. But if he was such a play maker, you'd think they'd find more plays for him in the offense. Listen Reggie Bush sucks at running the ball, but they worked him in. Deuce carried most of the load, and they got creative to get Reggie touches. Where was that for Turner? And in fact, LT had MORE carries then he has had in the last 4 years. With Turner coming of age, why is LT carrying the ball MORE? So my problem is, part of the "Turner is a special talent" argument is, why didn't the Chargers think so? Sure he's a great backup, worth the tender. But if Turner was so special, why didn't they take some of the load off LT? Why didn't they work Turner into the offense? Why in the biggest game of the year Turner was more or less a cheerleader? With LT breaking down in 04/05, where was Turner in 06 to take the load off? Infact they had to rely on LT MORE.I just get a sense that part of this argument is "the Chargers don't realize what they have in Turner". And that's where it gets iffy for me.The only reason Turner hasn't proven that he can carry the load at the pro level is that he happens to be behind the best RB in the league.From NFL.com:Not just a backup, but a backup that hasn't proven he can carry the load. We definitely know he can clean up in the 4th in blowout games after the best RB in the league has softened the defense.I still can't get over this, people trading a top pick for a backup.
more than half his carries came in quarters 1-3 and he was over 5 YPC carry no matter the quarter. The first quarter was actually his best quarter.Code:CAT G Att Yds Avg Lg TD 1st1ST QUARTER 0 10 78 7.8 25 0 52ND QUARTER 0 16 81 5.1 22 0 33RD QUARTER 0 19 97 5.1 21 0 64TH QUARTER 0 35 246 7.0 73 2 10
Turner was more effective when the game was out of hand, but he was still over 5 YPC no matter the game situation.Of course this is a small sample size (80 carries), but I believe you'd be hard pressed to find any NFL Insider that doesn't think that Turner is one of the 32 best RBs in the league and clearly of starter quality. Compact RBs that run as tough as he does, read holes and blocks as well as he does, and top it off with breakaway speed, are very rare. All it takes is watching Turner play, and you know immediately that he has as much potential as any rookie or college RB this side of Adrian Peterson.Code:CAT G Att Yds Avg Lg TD 1stMARGIN 0-7 5 28 172 6.1 21 0 8MARGIN 8-14 5 28 155 5.5 25 1 11MARGIN 15+ 3 24 175 7.3 73 1 5
Well, if history is any indication...that's what AJ did when Brees left and only signed McCruintheChargersseeason.That's not true. It has to do with salary per year, as well as all the players they sign. it's also a secret, and pretty convoluted formula, so putting them down for a 3rd nect year is a stretch.Also a stretch is the notion that they aren't going to sing a big FA because they want to get a 3rd rounder for a guy who left the year before.All they have to do is lose one more person then they sign. I think for a free 4th or 3rd they'll be sure to plan ahead. Teams are pretty careful about that.There's nothing probable about it.Unless you have the Chargers offseason plan for 2008 in your possession, and it states they have no plans to pursue any free agents of note.Yeah but a comp pick is nice even if its 2 years away and they will get a comp pick for Tuner. Which is one of the reasons he's staying this year. If you have to swap picks in the second round to move a guy like T. Jones an extra year and "probable" free third rounder two years from now for the NFL is actually a steal.....and SD doesn't get squat for him in 2008 when he's a UFA, lol. They should trade him while they can still get something of good value.I don't think it's a bad thing either if you have patience. Turner will be able to go where he wants, not where San Diego feels like trading him.
He's behind a hall of fame RB, possibly one of the 3 or 5 best RBs to ever play the game. LT had more carries this year because he was A) chasing a record and B) completely healthy for the whole year for the first time since 2003.I can't see riding the bench for a HoF RB as a knock on Turner.That all sounds great.Biggest game of the year, 3 carries? If he really has special talent, then Cam is a blind moron. 2 rb sets? Split out LT? Get Turner some touches? Be creative?Nope. Turner was sitting on his ### for most of the playoff game. 3 carries? 8 times in 2006 he had 5 or less carries. (didn't play week 12-14)I'm not saying you're wrong. Maybe Turner is going to be a top 10 RB in 2008. But if he was such a play maker, you'd think they'd find more plays for him in the offense. Listen Reggie Bush sucks at running the ball, but they worked him in. Deuce carried most of the load, and they got creative to get Reggie touches. Where was that for Turner? And in fact, LT had MORE carries then he has had in the last 4 years. With Turner coming of age, why is LT carrying the ball MORE? So my problem is, part of the "Turner is a special talent" argument is, why didn't the Chargers think so? Sure he's a great backup, worth the tender. But if Turner was so special, why didn't they take some of the load off LT? Why didn't they work Turner into the offense? Why in the biggest game of the year Turner was more or less a cheerleader? With LT breaking down in 04/05, where was Turner in 06 to take the load off? Infact they had to rely on LT MORE.I just get a sense that part of this argument is "the Chargers don't realize what they have in Turner". And that's where it gets iffy for me.The only reason Turner hasn't proven that he can carry the load at the pro level is that he happens to be behind the best RB in the league.From NFL.com:Not just a backup, but a backup that hasn't proven he can carry the load. We definitely know he can clean up in the 4th in blowout games after the best RB in the league has softened the defense.I still can't get over this, people trading a top pick for a backup.
more than half his carries came in quarters 1-3 and he was over 5 YPC carry no matter the quarter. The first quarter was actually his best quarter.Code:CAT G Att Yds Avg Lg TD 1st1ST QUARTER 0 10 78 7.8 25 0 52ND QUARTER 0 16 81 5.1 22 0 33RD QUARTER 0 19 97 5.1 21 0 64TH QUARTER 0 35 246 7.0 73 2 10
Turner was more effective when the game was out of hand, but he was still over 5 YPC no matter the game situation.Of course this is a small sample size (80 carries), but I believe you'd be hard pressed to find any NFL Insider that doesn't think that Turner is one of the 32 best RBs in the league and clearly of starter quality. Compact RBs that run as tough as he does, read holes and blocks as well as he does, and top it off with breakaway speed, are very rare. All it takes is watching Turner play, and you know immediately that he has as much potential as any rookie or college RB this side of Adrian Peterson.Code:CAT G Att Yds Avg Lg TD 1stMARGIN 0-7 5 28 172 6.1 21 0 8MARGIN 8-14 5 28 155 5.5 25 1 11MARGIN 15+ 3 24 175 7.3 73 1 5
The Chargers definitely do think that Turner is a special talent.If Larry Johnson had been on the Chargers last year instead of Turner, he probably wouldn't have gotten any more carries than Turner did.LT is pretty good too.billyjoe said:With Turner coming of age, why is LT carrying the ball MORE? So my problem is, part of the "Turner is a special talent" argument is, why didn't the Chargers think so?
On the flip side, other NFL teams don't think that Turner is worth a first rounder.kevinray said:I think the fact the Chargers have been rumored to want more then just a first rounder for Turner a good indication that they actually do realize what they have with him. The Chargers love Turner but they can't keep him, he wants to start somewhere, and I don't think there’s too much sentiment that "the Chargers don't realize what they have in Turner". And as for last year, while I do see your point, would you really have wanted to take touches away from LT if you were in the Chargers position? I don't think anyone thinks Turner is better then LT and really when you have the best back in the game and he wants the ball you give it to him no matter who’s on the bench.billyjoe said:That all sounds great.Biggest game of the year, 3 carries? If he really has special talent, then Cam is a blind moron. 2 rb sets? Split out LT? Get Turner some touches? Be creative?Nope. Turner was sitting on his ### for most of the playoff game. 3 carries? 8 times in 2006 he had 5 or less carries. (didn't play week 12-14)I'm not saying you're wrong. Maybe Turner is going to be a top 10 RB in 2008. But if he was such a play maker, you'd think they'd find more plays for him in the offense. Listen Reggie Bush sucks at running the ball, but they worked him in. Deuce carried most of the load, and they got creative to get Reggie touches. Where was that for Turner? And in fact, LT had MORE carries then he has had in the last 4 years. With Turner coming of age, why is LT carrying the ball MORE? So my problem is, part of the "Turner is a special talent" argument is, why didn't the Chargers think so? Sure he's a great backup, worth the tender. But if Turner was so special, why didn't they take some of the load off LT? Why didn't they work Turner into the offense? Why in the biggest game of the year Turner was more or less a cheerleader? With LT breaking down in 04/05, where was Turner in 06 to take the load off? Infact they had to rely on LT MORE.I just get a sense that part of this argument is "the Chargers don't realize what they have in Turner". And that's where it gets iffy for me.Sigmund Bloom said:The only reason Turner hasn't proven that he can carry the load at the pro level is that he happens to be behind the best RB in the league.From NFL.com:toxicbees said:Not just a backup, but a backup that hasn't proven he can carry the load. We definitely know he can clean up in the 4th in blowout games after the best RB in the league has softened the defense.BigTex said:I still can't get over this, people trading a top pick for a backup.
more than half his carries came in quarters 1-3 and he was over 5 YPC carry no matter the quarter. The first quarter was actually his best quarter.Code:CAT G Att Yds Avg Lg TD 1st1ST QUARTER 0 10 78 7.8 25 0 52ND QUARTER 0 16 81 5.1 22 0 33RD QUARTER 0 19 97 5.1 21 0 64TH QUARTER 0 35 246 7.0 73 2 10
Turner was more effective when the game was out of hand, but he was still over 5 YPC no matter the game situation.Of course this is a small sample size (80 carries), but I believe you'd be hard pressed to find any NFL Insider that doesn't think that Turner is one of the 32 best RBs in the league and clearly of starter quality. Compact RBs that run as tough as he does, read holes and blocks as well as he does, and top it off with breakaway speed, are very rare. All it takes is watching Turner play, and you know immediately that he has as much potential as any rookie or college RB this side of Adrian Peterson.Code:CAT G Att Yds Avg Lg TD 1stMARGIN 0-7 5 28 172 6.1 21 0 8MARGIN 8-14 5 28 155 5.5 25 1 11MARGIN 15+ 3 24 175 7.3 73 1 5
A first rounder plus a 5 million plus per year contract. Not many backs in the NFL that would command that.On the flip side, other NFL teams don't think that Turner is worth a first rounder.kevinray said:I think the fact the Chargers have been rumored to want more then just a first rounder for Turner a good indication that they actually do realize what they have with him. The Chargers love Turner but they can't keep him, he wants to start somewhere, and I don't think there’s too much sentiment that "the Chargers don't realize what they have in Turner". And as for last year, while I do see your point, would you really have wanted to take touches away from LT if you were in the Chargers position? I don't think anyone thinks Turner is better then LT and really when you have the best back in the game and he wants the ball you give it to him no matter who’s on the bench.billyjoe said:That all sounds great.Biggest game of the year, 3 carries? If he really has special talent, then Cam is a blind moron. 2 rb sets? Split out LT? Get Turner some touches? Be creative?Nope. Turner was sitting on his ### for most of the playoff game. 3 carries? 8 times in 2006 he had 5 or less carries. (didn't play week 12-14)I'm not saying you're wrong. Maybe Turner is going to be a top 10 RB in 2008. But if he was such a play maker, you'd think they'd find more plays for him in the offense. Listen Reggie Bush sucks at running the ball, but they worked him in. Deuce carried most of the load, and they got creative to get Reggie touches. Where was that for Turner? And in fact, LT had MORE carries then he has had in the last 4 years. With Turner coming of age, why is LT carrying the ball MORE? So my problem is, part of the "Turner is a special talent" argument is, why didn't the Chargers think so? Sure he's a great backup, worth the tender. But if Turner was so special, why didn't they take some of the load off LT? Why didn't they work Turner into the offense? Why in the biggest game of the year Turner was more or less a cheerleader? With LT breaking down in 04/05, where was Turner in 06 to take the load off? Infact they had to rely on LT MORE.I just get a sense that part of this argument is "the Chargers don't realize what they have in Turner". And that's where it gets iffy for me.Sigmund Bloom said:The only reason Turner hasn't proven that he can carry the load at the pro level is that he happens to be behind the best RB in the league.From NFL.com:toxicbees said:Not just a backup, but a backup that hasn't proven he can carry the load. We definitely know he can clean up in the 4th in blowout games after the best RB in the league has softened the defense.BigTex said:I still can't get over this, people trading a top pick for a backup.
more than half his carries came in quarters 1-3 and he was over 5 YPC carry no matter the quarter. The first quarter was actually his best quarter.Code:CAT G Att Yds Avg Lg TD 1st1ST QUARTER 0 10 78 7.8 25 0 52ND QUARTER 0 16 81 5.1 22 0 33RD QUARTER 0 19 97 5.1 21 0 64TH QUARTER 0 35 246 7.0 73 2 10
Turner was more effective when the game was out of hand, but he was still over 5 YPC no matter the game situation.Of course this is a small sample size (80 carries), but I believe you'd be hard pressed to find any NFL Insider that doesn't think that Turner is one of the 32 best RBs in the league and clearly of starter quality. Compact RBs that run as tough as he does, read holes and blocks as well as he does, and top it off with breakaway speed, are very rare. All it takes is watching Turner play, and you know immediately that he has as much potential as any rookie or college RB this side of Adrian Peterson.Code:CAT G Att Yds Avg Lg TD 1stMARGIN 0-7 5 28 172 6.1 21 0 8MARGIN 8-14 5 28 155 5.5 25 1 11MARGIN 15+ 3 24 175 7.3 73 1 5
they also realize he can be had next year for no picks.On the flip side, other NFL teams don't think that Turner is worth a first rounder.kevinray said:I think the fact the Chargers have been rumored to want more then just a first rounder for Turner a good indication that they actually do realize what they have with him. The Chargers love Turner but they can't keep him, he wants to start somewhere, and I don't think there’s too much sentiment that "the Chargers don't realize what they have in Turner". And as for last year, while I do see your point, would you really have wanted to take touches away from LT if you were in the Chargers position? I don't think anyone thinks Turner is better then LT and really when you have the best back in the game and he wants the ball you give it to him no matter who’s on the bench.billyjoe said:That all sounds great.Biggest game of the year, 3 carries? If he really has special talent, then Cam is a blind moron. 2 rb sets? Split out LT? Get Turner some touches? Be creative?Nope. Turner was sitting on his ### for most of the playoff game. 3 carries? 8 times in 2006 he had 5 or less carries. (didn't play week 12-14)I'm not saying you're wrong. Maybe Turner is going to be a top 10 RB in 2008. But if he was such a play maker, you'd think they'd find more plays for him in the offense. Listen Reggie Bush sucks at running the ball, but they worked him in. Deuce carried most of the load, and they got creative to get Reggie touches. Where was that for Turner? And in fact, LT had MORE carries then he has had in the last 4 years. With Turner coming of age, why is LT carrying the ball MORE? So my problem is, part of the "Turner is a special talent" argument is, why didn't the Chargers think so? Sure he's a great backup, worth the tender. But if Turner was so special, why didn't they take some of the load off LT? Why didn't they work Turner into the offense? Why in the biggest game of the year Turner was more or less a cheerleader? With LT breaking down in 04/05, where was Turner in 06 to take the load off? Infact they had to rely on LT MORE.I just get a sense that part of this argument is "the Chargers don't realize what they have in Turner". And that's where it gets iffy for me.Sigmund Bloom said:The only reason Turner hasn't proven that he can carry the load at the pro level is that he happens to be behind the best RB in the league.From NFL.com:toxicbees said:Not just a backup, but a backup that hasn't proven he can carry the load. We definitely know he can clean up in the 4th in blowout games after the best RB in the league has softened the defense.BigTex said:I still can't get over this, people trading a top pick for a backup.
more than half his carries came in quarters 1-3 and he was over 5 YPC carry no matter the quarter. The first quarter was actually his best quarter.Code:CAT G Att Yds Avg Lg TD 1st1ST QUARTER 0 10 78 7.8 25 0 52ND QUARTER 0 16 81 5.1 22 0 33RD QUARTER 0 19 97 5.1 21 0 64TH QUARTER 0 35 246 7.0 73 2 10
Turner was more effective when the game was out of hand, but he was still over 5 YPC no matter the game situation.Of course this is a small sample size (80 carries), but I believe you'd be hard pressed to find any NFL Insider that doesn't think that Turner is one of the 32 best RBs in the league and clearly of starter quality. Compact RBs that run as tough as he does, read holes and blocks as well as he does, and top it off with breakaway speed, are very rare. All it takes is watching Turner play, and you know immediately that he has as much potential as any rookie or college RB this side of Adrian Peterson.Code:CAT G Att Yds Avg Lg TD 1stMARGIN 0-7 5 28 172 6.1 21 0 8MARGIN 8-14 5 28 155 5.5 25 1 11MARGIN 15+ 3 24 175 7.3 73 1 5
The reason the Chargers made the 1st and 3rd tender offer instead of just the 1st is that they believe several teams think Turner is worth a first rounder. (And the Chargers evidently believe that even just one year of Turner's services is worth more than a first rounder.)they also realize he can be had next year for no picks.On the flip side, other NFL teams don't think that Turner is worth a first rounder.
When Thomas Jones ony costs a 2nd round swap of picks (about the equivalent of a 3rd rounder), the market just doesn't support a 1st rounder even for a talented potential top 10 RB in today's NFL. Too bad for Turner and his fantasy owners.Regarding his talent and whether or not he will be a 'stud' once he leaves SD, much will depend on his situation, but Turner has 'IT' IMHO and may very will be RB1 for fantasy purposes. Unfortunately we'll all be waiting until '08 to find out...On the flip side, other NFL teams don't think that Turner is worth a first rounder.
I actually believe he has great talent, that's never been the question. It's owners given away top talent and top draft picks for a back up. As I've said before, many thought Betts would leave Washington but he didn't he re-signed. We shouldn't assume that Turner will leave SD either until he actually does giving away top talent or draft picks to try and get a steal will kill your team.When Thomas Jones ony costs a 2nd round swap of picks (about the equivalent of a 3rd rounder), the market just doesn't support a 1st rounder even for a talented potential top 10 RB in today's NFL. Too bad for Turner and his fantasy owners.Regarding his talent and whether or not he will be a 'stud' once he leaves SD, much will depend on his situation, but Turner has 'IT' IMHO and may very will be RB1 for fantasy purposes. Unfortunately we'll all be waiting until '08 to find out...On the flip side, other NFL teams don't think that Turner is worth a first rounder.
I actually believe he has great talent, that's never been the question. It's owners given away top talent and top draft picks for a back up. As I've said before, many thought Betts would leave Washington but he didn't he re-signed. We shouldn't assume that Turner will leave SD either until he actually does giving away top talent or draft picks to try and get a steal will kill your team.
Steve Smith or (Peyton?) Manning for Michael turner? Are you seriuos?He was dealt for Manning in one league and Steve Smith in another by rebuilding owners near the trade deadline last season.
Yes the Chargers realize there are teams hot and heavy over Turner. It's just smart business.But in the BIGGEST game of the year, Turner was NO WHERE to be found. You find ways to use your offensive weapons.Again, LT *BROKEDOWN* in late 2004/2005. So in 2006, you'd think the Chargers would be keeping LT fresh and using the soon to be stud Turner. Um, no. LT carried the ball more then he has in the last 4 years.It just doesn't add up. Yes they understand the perceived value around the league, but talk in cheap. In a must win game, Turner is watching. And yes I understand LT is good. LT is also an awesome receiver. Why not get creative? Put LT in some Reggie Bush type packages, with Turner at RB. Why not let Turner wear down Ds late in the games. Why not keep LT fresh. They rode LT harder then ever, yet I'm suppose to beleive Turner is the next great RB? Just because you have LT, doesn't mean you don't create plays for Gates. Turner is a weapon. LT is a weapon. Other teams find ways to use their weapons. Chargers made NO EFFORT to use Turner. He was an afterthought. I'm sorry if you have a "special talent", you find ways to use him. And the Chargers showed no interesting in doing that. So either the Chargers were in the wrong, or Turner just isn't that great.kevinray said:I think the fact the Chargers have been rumored to want more then just a first rounder for Turner a good indication that they actually do realize what they have with him. The Chargers love Turner but they can't keep him, he wants to start somewhere, and I don't think there’s too much sentiment that "the Chargers don't realize what they have in Turner". And as for last year, while I do see your point, would you really have wanted to take touches away from LT if you were in the Chargers position? I don't think anyone thinks Turner is better then LT and really when you have the best back in the game and he wants the ball you give it to him no matter who’s on the bench.
You have to be joking right?You *find ways* to use your weapons. You'd let a pro bowl RB sit on the sidelines and get 3 carries. You really believe that?Because I'm fairly sure LJ would have been at RB, and LT being split out, a whole heck of a lot. Go watch Deuce/Bush, and we would have seen a whole lot of BOTH RBs in the game. Keep each RB fresh, use both at the same time, run both, throw to both, creative schemes, unique packages. It's called standard NFL offenses. Turner was an afterthought in the SD offense, end of story. And if Turner was such a special offensive playmaker, they would have fit him into the offense.The Chargers definitely do think that Turner is a special talent.If Larry Johnson had been on the Chargers last year instead of Turner, he probably wouldn't have gotten any more carries than Turner did.LT is pretty good too.billyjoe said:With Turner coming of age, why is LT carrying the ball MORE? So my problem is, part of the "Turner is a special talent" argument is, why didn't the Chargers think so?
Would you really believe they'd also only get the ball in the hands of the best player in the NFL having the best season of his life 9 times in the second half while your QB is working with a bum wheel and the receivers hands have turned to stone? Would you really believe they'd leave Eric Parker in the game and not even try McCardell after Parker proved he couldn't catch a cold in that game?I wouldn't believe it either - but that's what happened.Using the Pats game to determine Turner's abilities is a very, very bad idea.You have to be joking right?You *find ways* to use your weapons. You'd let a pro bowl RB sit on the sidelines and get 3 carries. You really believe that?The Chargers definitely do think that Turner is a special talent.If Larry Johnson had been on the Chargers last year instead of Turner, he probably wouldn't have gotten any more carries than Turner did.LT is pretty good too.billyjoe said:With Turner coming of age, why is LT carrying the ball MORE? So my problem is, part of the "Turner is a special talent" argument is, why didn't the Chargers think so?
The logic's good, but NFL teams simply don't always follow this mantra. I mean if the chiefs had used LJ earlier then his third year instead of running Priest into the ground then maybe Priest would still be around to help them now. Yes I know Blaylock was used as well but I find it hard to believe that they wouldn't have at least thought LJ could be a talented back for them. It was an odd choice and not one I would've gone with but they chose to let him ride the pine and over use their stud. I think those who used your same logic on LJ are feeling pretty silly about having doubted him.You have to be joking right?You *find ways* to use your weapons. You'd let a pro bowl RB sit on the sidelines and get 3 carries. You really believe that?Because I'm fairly sure LJ would have been at RB, and LT being split out, a whole heck of a lot. Go watch Deuce/Bush, and we would have seen a whole lot of BOTH RBs in the game. Keep each RB fresh, use both at the same time, run both, throw to both, creative schemes, unique packages. It's called standard NFL offenses. Turner was an afterthought in the SD offense, end of story. And if Turner was such a special offensive playmaker, they would have fit him into the offense.The Chargers definitely do think that Turner is a special talent.If Larry Johnson had been on the Chargers last year instead of Turner, he probably wouldn't have gotten any more carries than Turner did.LT is pretty good too.billyjoe said:With Turner coming of age, why is LT carrying the ball MORE? So my problem is, part of the "Turner is a special talent" argument is, why didn't the Chargers think so?
This is exactly the kind of analysis that leads you to miss the boat on players. You are using a limited sample size (one game) to draw some kind of conclusion that SD doesn't think Turner is talented? At the beginning of the last year, Turner was getting so many carries that LT owners were worrying that it was going to become a split backfield. What do those games prove? Nothing on their own. You have to watch a lot of NFL football and trust your eyes and instincts to evaluate talent. Counting on how a team uses their players as a surrogate for that is NOT a good idea. By the way, in 2001, the Saints knew that Deuce was a very good player even during his rookie year (so much so that they traded away Ricky Williams before the next season started), yet they only ran Deuce 16 times for 91 yards that year, while Williams had a career year. What did prove about Deuce's talent? Nothing. In 1999 and 2000, Priest Holmes averaged 100 carries per year behind Jamal Lewis. What did that prove about Priest's talent? Nothing.Try to have a broader view.You have to be joking right?You *find ways* to use your weapons. You'd let a pro bowl RB sit on the sidelines and get 3 carries. You really believe that?Because I'm fairly sure LJ would have been at RB, and LT being split out, a whole heck of a lot. Go watch Deuce/Bush, and we would have seen a whole lot of BOTH RBs in the game. Keep each RB fresh, use both at the same time, run both, throw to both, creative schemes, unique packages. It's called standard NFL offenses. Turner was an afterthought in the SD offense, end of story. And if Turner was such a special offensive playmaker, they would have fit him into the offense.The Chargers definitely do think that Turner is a special talent.If Larry Johnson had been on the Chargers last year instead of Turner, he probably wouldn't have gotten any more carries than Turner did.LT is pretty good too.billyjoe said:With Turner coming of age, why is LT carrying the ball MORE? So my problem is, part of the "Turner is a special talent" argument is, why didn't the Chargers think so?
No, I'm not joking.LT is the starter. Turner is the backup. Any RB in the league would be the backup behind LT.If the Chargers had Reggie Bush, they may be able to get him onto the field by putting him in the slot. But they're not going to put Michael Turner in the slot. Turner is a pure runner at RB. And they're also not going to take LT out of the backfield (by putting him in the slot) to make room for Turner.The fact that the Niners didn't rotate Steve Young in with Joe Montana doesn't mean they thought Young wasn't all that good. It was just that Montana was the starter. RB is different from QB, and Turner did spell Tomlinson occasionally. But Tomlinson is still going to get the starter's share of the carries.The idea that the Chargers don't think Turner has special talent is inconsistent with the tender offer they gave him.You have to be joking right?You *find ways* to use your weapons. You'd let a pro bowl RB sit on the sidelines and get 3 carries. You really believe that?Because I'm fairly sure LJ would have been at RB, and LT being split out, a whole heck of a lot. Go watch Deuce/Bush, and we would have seen a whole lot of BOTH RBs in the game. Keep each RB fresh, use both at the same time, run both, throw to both, creative schemes, unique packages. It's called standard NFL offenses. Turner was an afterthought in the SD offense, end of story. And if Turner was such a special offensive playmaker, they would have fit him into the offense.The Chargers definitely do think that Turner is a special talent.If Larry Johnson had been on the Chargers last year instead of Turner, he probably wouldn't have gotten any more carries than Turner did.LT is pretty good too.billyjoe said:With Turner coming of age, why is LT carrying the ball MORE? So my problem is, part of the "Turner is a special talent" argument is, why didn't the Chargers think so?
billyjoe,Instead of trying to draw your conclusions regarding Turner's talents based on how heavily San Diego used him during LT2's career year, maybe you should ask yourself why they valued him highly enough this offseason to put a 'tag' on him that for all practical purposes blocks any other team from acquiring his services for '07. Theoretically they could have gotten a very good draft pick or two for him if they wanted, but instead they are making it almost impossible for him to leave for at least one more season.Turner was an afterthought in the SD offense, end of story. And if Turner was such a special offensive playmaker, they would have fit him into the offense.
As a Giants fan, you'll probably agree that the Giants don't need a true starting RB, but rather a complement to Jacobs. That really only leaves the Ravens and GB. I doubt the Chargers will trade with the Ravens so that only leaves GB.As a Turner owner, I hope I'm dead wrong, but I'd say the odds of Turner being traded are 20% at best.nygiants56 said:GB, Ravens, Giants still must find themselves starting RB's. for the price of McGahee, taking on his salary AND his off the field baggage, teams might rather have Turner. We shall see..IMO, it could be draft day that he gets traded, or, it could be the start of training camp, but, he'll be dealt, IMO.
Well technically the Ravens could give up the first and third and not have to trade with the Chargers, but I don't see that happening.As a Giants fan, you'll probably agree that the Giants don't need a true starting RB, but rather a complement to Jacobs. That really only leaves the Ravens and GB. I doubt the Chargers will trade with the Ravens so that only leaves GB.As a Turner owner, I hope I'm dead wrong, but I'd say the odds of Turner being traded are 20% at best.nygiants56 said:GB, Ravens, Giants still must find themselves starting RB's. for the price of McGahee, taking on his salary AND his off the field baggage, teams might rather have Turner. We shall see..IMO, it could be draft day that he gets traded, or, it could be the start of training camp, but, he'll be dealt, IMO.
I used to think the same thing. I don't own Jacobs in any league, so I don't have any bias toward Jacobs, and I don't see why he can't be the main ball carrier in NY. I'm starting to doubt whether the Giants see Jacobs in that role. I'm starting to think they want him in the same role he played when they had Tiki.As a Giants fan, you'll probably agree that the Giants don't need a true starting RB, but rather a complement to Jacobs.
I think the Giants are cautiously optomistic with Jacobs. If they wanted him in the same role as he player with Tiki, a short yardage back/goaline back, I would think that they would be persuing a starting RB more rigorously and not let Rhodes leave town once Rhodes agent said he was looking for "starter" money.There is the possibility that the Giants simply haven't found a better option as of yet, or are waiting for the draft, but I haven't seen any indication as of yet that the Giants are convinced that Jacobs can't handle the job.I used to think the same thing. I don't own Jacobs in any league, so I don't have any bias toward Jacobs, and I don't see why he can't be the main ball carrier in NY. I'm starting to doubt whether the Giants see Jacobs in that role. I'm starting to think they want him in the same role he played when they had Tiki.As a Giants fan, you'll probably agree that the Giants don't need a true starting RB, but rather a complement to Jacobs.