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Did all the M.Turner dynasty owners get burned with these FA RB signin (1 Viewer)

The Job openings getting thin out there and with TJ only fetching a move up, i doubt someone pays a 1st and a 3rd for Turner. Seems like they might have to wait till 08.

 
Seems like they might have to wait till 08.
:goodposting: I don't think that's such a bad thing, because they'll get a great payoff.I think the only places Turner could legitimately be traded to at this point would be Green Bay or the Giants, and I don't know what either one would offer to make it attractive for the Chargers. I also don't see much motivation on either of those teams' parts given what's still available in FA right now. Why trade or sign this year and give something up when they can sign him as a UFA next year and only have to give up a 3rd at most?
 
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I don't think it's a bad thing either if you have patience. Turner will be able to go where he wants, not where San Diego feels like trading him.

 
I have him in my dynasty league and although I would have liked for him to be a starter somewhere this year, if you look at this with a "glass is half full" mentality, next year hes a UFA, and can go anywhere he likes. He can pick a team that is a good fit for him rather than just going to a team that has the draft picks to spare.

 
I don't think it's a bad thing either if you have patience. Turner will be able to go where he wants, not where San Diego feels like trading him.
....and SD doesn't get squat for him in 2008 when he's a UFA, lol. They should trade him while they can still get something of good value.
 
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I agree. I'm a M. Turner go-getter. With my weak roster, I'm trying hard to get him for next year, along with my 1st time ever 1st round rookie pick,... I'll be looking good. Check me out in the AC, Brotha.

 
I don't think it's a bad thing either if you have patience. Turner will be able to go where he wants, not where San Diego feels like trading him.
....and SD doesn't get squat for him in 2008 when he's a UFA, lol. They should trade him while they can still get something of good value.Edited to say 2008, not 2009 that Turner will be a UFA.
... unless SD thinks he is too important a part of a team poised for a Super Bowl run.
 
I don't think it's a bad thing either if you have patience. Turner will be able to go where he wants, not where San Diego feels like trading him.
....and SD doesn't get squat for him in 2008 when he's a UFA, lol. They should trade him while they can still get something of good value.
Yeah but a comp pick is nice even if its 2 years away and they will get a comp pick for Tuner. Which is one of the reasons he's staying this year. If you have to swap picks in the second round to move a guy like T. Jones an extra year and "probable" free third rounder two years from now for the NFL is actually a steal.
 
I don't think it's a bad thing either if you have patience. Turner will be able to go where he wants, not where San Diego feels like trading him.
....and SD doesn't get squat for him in 2008 when he's a UFA, lol. They should trade him while they can still get something of good value.Edited to say 2008, not 2009 that Turner will be a UFA.
... unless SD thinks he is too important a part of a team poised for a Super Bowl run.
I thought Priest Holmes was too important a part in my fantasy team the other year too. How'd that work out for me? ;)
 
I don't think it's a bad thing either if you have patience. Turner will be able to go where he wants, not where San Diego feels like trading him.
....and SD doesn't get squat for him in 2008 when he's a UFA, lol. They should trade him while they can still get something of good value.
Yeah but a comp pick is nice even if its 2 years away and they will get a comp pick for Tuner. Which is one of the reasons he's staying this year. If you have to swap picks in the second round to move a guy like T. Jones an extra year and "probable" free third rounder two years from now for the NFL is actually a steal.
There's nothing probable about it.Unless you have the Chargers offseason plan for 2008 in your possession, and it states they have no plans to pursue any free agents of note.
 
I don't think it's a bad thing either if you have patience. Turner will be able to go where he wants, not where San Diego feels like trading him.
....and SD doesn't get squat for him in 2008 when he's a UFA, lol. They should trade him while they can still get something of good value.
Yeah but a comp pick is nice even if its 2 years away and they will get a comp pick for Tuner. Which is one of the reasons he's staying this year. If you have to swap picks in the second round to move a guy like T. Jones an extra year and "probable" free third rounder two years from now for the NFL is actually a steal.
There's nothing probable about it.Unless you have the Chargers offseason plan for 2008 in your possession, and it states they have no plans to pursue any free agents of note.
All they have to do is lose one more person then they sign. I think for a free 4th or 3rd they'll be sure to plan ahead. Teams are pretty careful about that.
 
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I thought Priest Holmes was too important a part in my fantasy team the other year too. How'd that work out for me? :confused:
I don't know if it was your intention or not, but you just proved the point in regards to what the Chargers gain by keeping Turner this year.
 
I don't think it's a bad thing either if you have patience. Turner will be able to go where he wants, not where San Diego feels like trading him.
....and SD doesn't get squat for him in 2008 when he's a UFA, lol. They should trade him while they can still get something of good value.
Yeah but a comp pick is nice even if its 2 years away and they will get a comp pick for Tuner. Which is one of the reasons he's staying this year. If you have to swap picks in the second round to move a guy like T. Jones an extra year and "probable" free third rounder two years from now for the NFL is actually a steal.
There's nothing probable about it.Unless you have the Chargers offseason plan for 2008 in your possession, and it states they have no plans to pursue any free agents of note.
All they have to do is lose one more person then they sign. I think for a free 4th or 3rd they'll be sure to plan ahead. Teams are pretty careful about that.
That's not true. It has to do with salary per year, as well as all the players they sign. it's also a secret, and pretty convoluted formula, so putting them down for a 3rd nect year is a stretch.Also a stretch is the notion that they aren't going to sing a big FA because they want to get a 3rd rounder for a guy who left the year before.
 
I don't think it's a bad thing either if you have patience. Turner will be able to go where he wants, not where San Diego feels like trading him.
....and SD doesn't get squat for him in 2008 when he's a UFA, lol. They should trade him while they can still get something of good value.
Yeah but a comp pick is nice even if its 2 years away and they will get a comp pick for Tuner. Which is one of the reasons he's staying this year. If you have to swap picks in the second round to move a guy like T. Jones an extra year and "probable" free third rounder two years from now for the NFL is actually a steal.
There's nothing probable about it.Unless you have the Chargers offseason plan for 2008 in your possession, and it states they have no plans to pursue any free agents of note.
All they have to do is lose one more person then they sign. I think for a free 4th or 3rd they'll be sure to plan ahead. Teams are pretty careful about that.
That's not true. It has to do with salary per year, as well as all the players they sign. it's also a secret, and pretty convoluted formula, so putting them down for a 3rd nect year is a stretch.Also a stretch is the notion that they aren't going to sing a big FA because they want to get a 3rd rounder for a guy who left the year before.
Ok granted, If they did drop a significant amount of money on a free agent that would comparatively negate a pick for Turner. I expect Turner to make a big enough splash in the free agent market next year based on his league wide hype and he’ll get a big enough contract to be in competition for the 3rd and at min get the fourth round grade based on how comp picks have been given in the past.Given that I like the Chargers options coming into next year far better with weighing the potential pick to their free agent needs far more then the devalued market for running backs as a tradable commodity. Turner would get more then Jones in a trade but the best value is simply keeping him on the team this year. If they play it even reasonably well they'll come out better in the end by waiting.
 
He was dealt for Manning in one league and Steve Smith in another by rebuilding owners near the trade deadline last season. That owner will be rebuilding for a LONG time.

 
I still can't get over this, people trading a top pick for a backup. :thumbdown:
I have Turner in 3 leagues and got him cheap (LT2 owner in 2 of them), but if someone offered me the 1.01 or 1.02 in a dynasty league I'd jump all over it. I had him in a 4th league but I let him go cheap a couple years ago :nerd: One thing I do know is that I won't have the same attitude this time next year when Turner is a UFA. His value will be as good or better than Slaton or McFadden

 
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I still can't get over this, people trading a top pick for a backup. :lmao:
Not just a backup, but a backup that hasn't proven he can carry the load. We definitely know he can clean up in the 4th in blowout games after the best RB in the league has softened the defense.
 
I thought Priest Holmes was too important a part in my fantasy team the other year too. How'd that work out for me? :)
I don't know if it was your intention or not, but you just proved the point in regards to what the Chargers gain by keeping Turner this year.
:blackdot: and as an LT owner, I'm actually happier with Turner staying in San Diego this year. If LT got injured, Turner would become a strong starter for us. Of course, if I needed a RB2, I wouldn't be as thrilled.
 
I still can't get over this, people trading a top pick for a backup. :bag:
I wouldn't trade a top 2 rookie pick for Turner, and whether I'd trade the #3 is based somewhat on where Lynch lands.Regardless, the Turner owners will be :wall: when he starts putting up studly numbers as a starter next year.
 
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I still can't get over this, people trading a top pick for a backup. :banned:
Not just a backup, but a backup that hasn't proven he can carry the load. We definitely know he can clean up in the 4th in blowout games after the best RB in the league has softened the defense.
The only reason Turner hasn't proven that he can carry the load at the pro level is that he happens to be behind the best RB in the league.From NFL.com:
Code:
CAT	G	Att	Yds	Avg	Lg	TD	1st1ST QUARTER	0	10	78	7.8	25	0	52ND QUARTER	0	16	81	5.1	22	0	33RD QUARTER	0	19	97	5.1	21	0	64TH QUARTER	0	35	246	7.0	73	2	10
more than half his carries came in quarters 1-3 and he was over 5 YPC carry no matter the quarter. The first quarter was actually his best quarter.
Code:
CAT	G	Att	Yds	Avg	Lg	TD	1stMARGIN 0-7	5	28	172	6.1	21	0	8MARGIN 8-14	5	28	155	5.5	25	1	11MARGIN 15+	3	24	175	7.3	73	1	5
Turner was more effective when the game was out of hand, but he was still over 5 YPC no matter the game situation.Of course this is a small sample size (80 carries), but I believe you'd be hard pressed to find any NFL Insider that doesn't think that Turner is one of the 32 best RBs in the league and clearly of starter quality. Compact RBs that run as tough as he does, read holes and blocks as well as he does, and top it off with breakaway speed, are very rare. All it takes is watching Turner play, and you know immediately that he has as much potential as any rookie or college RB this side of Adrian Peterson.
 
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I still can't get over this, people trading a top pick for a backup. :yes:
Not just a backup, but a backup that hasn't proven he can carry the load. We definitely know he can clean up in the 4th in blowout games after the best RB in the league has softened the defense.
The only reason Turner hasn't proven that he can carry the load at the pro level is that he happens to be behind the best RB in the league.From NFL.com:
Code:
CAT	G	Att	Yds	Avg	Lg	TD	1st1ST QUARTER	0	10	78	7.8	25	0	52ND QUARTER	0	16	81	5.1	22	0	33RD QUARTER	0	19	97	5.1	21	0	64TH QUARTER	0	35	246	7.0	73	2	10
more than half his carries came in quarters 1-3 and he was over 5 YPC carry no matter the quarter. The first quarter was actually his best quarter.
Code:
CAT	G	Att	Yds	Avg	Lg	TD	1stMARGIN 0-7	5	28	172	6.1	21	0	8MARGIN 8-14	5	28	155	5.5	25	1	11MARGIN 15+	3	24	175	7.3	73	1	5
Turner was more effective when the game was out of hand, but he was still over 5 YPC no matter the game situation.Of course this is a small sample size (80 carries), but I believe you'd be hard pressed to find any NFL Insider that doesn't think that Turner is one of the 32 best RBs in the league and clearly of starter quality. Compact RBs that run as tough as he does, read holes and blocks as well as he does, and top it off with breakaway speed, are very rare. All it takes is watching Turner play, and you know immediately that he has as much potential as any rookie or college RB this side of Adrian Peterson.
That all sounds great.Biggest game of the year, 3 carries? If he really has special talent, then Cam is a blind moron. 2 rb sets? Split out LT? Get Turner some touches? Be creative?Nope. Turner was sitting on his ### for most of the playoff game. 3 carries? 8 times in 2006 he had 5 or less carries. (didn't play week 12-14)I'm not saying you're wrong. Maybe Turner is going to be a top 10 RB in 2008. But if he was such a play maker, you'd think they'd find more plays for him in the offense. Listen Reggie Bush sucks at running the ball, but they worked him in. Deuce carried most of the load, and they got creative to get Reggie touches. Where was that for Turner? And in fact, LT had MORE carries then he has had in the last 4 years. With Turner coming of age, why is LT carrying the ball MORE? So my problem is, part of the "Turner is a special talent" argument is, why didn't the Chargers think so? Sure he's a great backup, worth the tender. But if Turner was so special, why didn't they take some of the load off LT? Why didn't they work Turner into the offense? Why in the biggest game of the year Turner was more or less a cheerleader? With LT breaking down in 04/05, where was Turner in 06 to take the load off? Infact they had to rely on LT MORE.I just get a sense that part of this argument is "the Chargers don't realize what they have in Turner". And that's where it gets iffy for me.
 
I still can't get over this, people trading a top pick for a backup. :goodposting:
Not just a backup, but a backup that hasn't proven he can carry the load. We definitely know he can clean up in the 4th in blowout games after the best RB in the league has softened the defense.
The only reason Turner hasn't proven that he can carry the load at the pro level is that he happens to be behind the best RB in the league.From NFL.com:
Code:
CAT	G	Att	Yds	Avg	Lg	TD	1st1ST QUARTER	0	10	78	7.8	25	0	52ND QUARTER	0	16	81	5.1	22	0	33RD QUARTER	0	19	97	5.1	21	0	64TH QUARTER	0	35	246	7.0	73	2	10
more than half his carries came in quarters 1-3 and he was over 5 YPC carry no matter the quarter. The first quarter was actually his best quarter.
Code:
CAT	G	Att	Yds	Avg	Lg	TD	1stMARGIN 0-7	5	28	172	6.1	21	0	8MARGIN 8-14	5	28	155	5.5	25	1	11MARGIN 15+	3	24	175	7.3	73	1	5
Turner was more effective when the game was out of hand, but he was still over 5 YPC no matter the game situation.Of course this is a small sample size (80 carries), but I believe you'd be hard pressed to find any NFL Insider that doesn't think that Turner is one of the 32 best RBs in the league and clearly of starter quality. Compact RBs that run as tough as he does, read holes and blocks as well as he does, and top it off with breakaway speed, are very rare. All it takes is watching Turner play, and you know immediately that he has as much potential as any rookie or college RB this side of Adrian Peterson.
That all sounds great.Biggest game of the year, 3 carries? If he really has special talent, then Cam is a blind moron. 2 rb sets? Split out LT? Get Turner some touches? Be creative?Nope. Turner was sitting on his ### for most of the playoff game. 3 carries? 8 times in 2006 he had 5 or less carries. (didn't play week 12-14)I'm not saying you're wrong. Maybe Turner is going to be a top 10 RB in 2008. But if he was such a play maker, you'd think they'd find more plays for him in the offense. Listen Reggie Bush sucks at running the ball, but they worked him in. Deuce carried most of the load, and they got creative to get Reggie touches. Where was that for Turner? And in fact, LT had MORE carries then he has had in the last 4 years. With Turner coming of age, why is LT carrying the ball MORE? So my problem is, part of the "Turner is a special talent" argument is, why didn't the Chargers think so? Sure he's a great backup, worth the tender. But if Turner was so special, why didn't they take some of the load off LT? Why didn't they work Turner into the offense? Why in the biggest game of the year Turner was more or less a cheerleader? With LT breaking down in 04/05, where was Turner in 06 to take the load off? Infact they had to rely on LT MORE.I just get a sense that part of this argument is "the Chargers don't realize what they have in Turner". And that's where it gets iffy for me.
I think the fact the Chargers have been rumored to want more then just a first rounder for Turner a good indication that they actually do realize what they have with him. The Chargers love Turner but they can't keep him, he wants to start somewhere, and I don't think there’s too much sentiment that "the Chargers don't realize what they have in Turner". And as for last year, while I do see your point, would you really have wanted to take touches away from LT if you were in the Chargers position? I don't think anyone thinks Turner is better then LT and really when you have the best back in the game and he wants the ball you give it to him no matter who’s on the bench.
 
I don't think it's a bad thing either if you have patience. Turner will be able to go where he wants, not where San Diego feels like trading him.
....and SD doesn't get squat for him in 2008 when he's a UFA, lol. They should trade him while they can still get something of good value.
Yeah but a comp pick is nice even if its 2 years away and they will get a comp pick for Tuner. Which is one of the reasons he's staying this year. If you have to swap picks in the second round to move a guy like T. Jones an extra year and "probable" free third rounder two years from now for the NFL is actually a steal.
There's nothing probable about it.Unless you have the Chargers offseason plan for 2008 in your possession, and it states they have no plans to pursue any free agents of note.
All they have to do is lose one more person then they sign. I think for a free 4th or 3rd they'll be sure to plan ahead. Teams are pretty careful about that.
That's not true. It has to do with salary per year, as well as all the players they sign. it's also a secret, and pretty convoluted formula, so putting them down for a 3rd nect year is a stretch.Also a stretch is the notion that they aren't going to sing a big FA because they want to get a 3rd rounder for a guy who left the year before.
Well, if history is any indication...that's what AJ did when Brees left and only signed McCruintheChargersseeason.
 
I still can't get over this, people trading a top pick for a backup. :goodposting:
Not just a backup, but a backup that hasn't proven he can carry the load. We definitely know he can clean up in the 4th in blowout games after the best RB in the league has softened the defense.
The only reason Turner hasn't proven that he can carry the load at the pro level is that he happens to be behind the best RB in the league.From NFL.com:
Code:
CAT	G	Att	Yds	Avg	Lg	TD	1st1ST QUARTER	0	10	78	7.8	25	0	52ND QUARTER	0	16	81	5.1	22	0	33RD QUARTER	0	19	97	5.1	21	0	64TH QUARTER	0	35	246	7.0	73	2	10
more than half his carries came in quarters 1-3 and he was over 5 YPC carry no matter the quarter. The first quarter was actually his best quarter.
Code:
CAT	G	Att	Yds	Avg	Lg	TD	1stMARGIN 0-7	5	28	172	6.1	21	0	8MARGIN 8-14	5	28	155	5.5	25	1	11MARGIN 15+	3	24	175	7.3	73	1	5
Turner was more effective when the game was out of hand, but he was still over 5 YPC no matter the game situation.Of course this is a small sample size (80 carries), but I believe you'd be hard pressed to find any NFL Insider that doesn't think that Turner is one of the 32 best RBs in the league and clearly of starter quality. Compact RBs that run as tough as he does, read holes and blocks as well as he does, and top it off with breakaway speed, are very rare. All it takes is watching Turner play, and you know immediately that he has as much potential as any rookie or college RB this side of Adrian Peterson.
That all sounds great.Biggest game of the year, 3 carries? If he really has special talent, then Cam is a blind moron. 2 rb sets? Split out LT? Get Turner some touches? Be creative?Nope. Turner was sitting on his ### for most of the playoff game. 3 carries? 8 times in 2006 he had 5 or less carries. (didn't play week 12-14)I'm not saying you're wrong. Maybe Turner is going to be a top 10 RB in 2008. But if he was such a play maker, you'd think they'd find more plays for him in the offense. Listen Reggie Bush sucks at running the ball, but they worked him in. Deuce carried most of the load, and they got creative to get Reggie touches. Where was that for Turner? And in fact, LT had MORE carries then he has had in the last 4 years. With Turner coming of age, why is LT carrying the ball MORE? So my problem is, part of the "Turner is a special talent" argument is, why didn't the Chargers think so? Sure he's a great backup, worth the tender. But if Turner was so special, why didn't they take some of the load off LT? Why didn't they work Turner into the offense? Why in the biggest game of the year Turner was more or less a cheerleader? With LT breaking down in 04/05, where was Turner in 06 to take the load off? Infact they had to rely on LT MORE.I just get a sense that part of this argument is "the Chargers don't realize what they have in Turner". And that's where it gets iffy for me.
He's behind a hall of fame RB, possibly one of the 3 or 5 best RBs to ever play the game. LT had more carries this year because he was A) chasing a record and B) completely healthy for the whole year for the first time since 2003.I can't see riding the bench for a HoF RB as a knock on Turner.
 
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billyjoe said:
With Turner coming of age, why is LT carrying the ball MORE? So my problem is, part of the "Turner is a special talent" argument is, why didn't the Chargers think so?
The Chargers definitely do think that Turner is a special talent.If Larry Johnson had been on the Chargers last year instead of Turner, he probably wouldn't have gotten any more carries than Turner did.LT is pretty good too.
 
kevinray said:
billyjoe said:
Sigmund Bloom said:
toxicbees said:
BigTex said:
I still can't get over this, people trading a top pick for a backup. :bowtie:
Not just a backup, but a backup that hasn't proven he can carry the load. We definitely know he can clean up in the 4th in blowout games after the best RB in the league has softened the defense.
The only reason Turner hasn't proven that he can carry the load at the pro level is that he happens to be behind the best RB in the league.From NFL.com:
Code:
CAT	G	Att	Yds	Avg	Lg	TD	1st1ST QUARTER	0	10	78	7.8	25	0	52ND QUARTER	0	16	81	5.1	22	0	33RD QUARTER	0	19	97	5.1	21	0	64TH QUARTER	0	35	246	7.0	73	2	10
more than half his carries came in quarters 1-3 and he was over 5 YPC carry no matter the quarter. The first quarter was actually his best quarter.
Code:
CAT	G	Att	Yds	Avg	Lg	TD	1stMARGIN 0-7	5	28	172	6.1	21	0	8MARGIN 8-14	5	28	155	5.5	25	1	11MARGIN 15+	3	24	175	7.3	73	1	5
Turner was more effective when the game was out of hand, but he was still over 5 YPC no matter the game situation.Of course this is a small sample size (80 carries), but I believe you'd be hard pressed to find any NFL Insider that doesn't think that Turner is one of the 32 best RBs in the league and clearly of starter quality. Compact RBs that run as tough as he does, read holes and blocks as well as he does, and top it off with breakaway speed, are very rare. All it takes is watching Turner play, and you know immediately that he has as much potential as any rookie or college RB this side of Adrian Peterson.
That all sounds great.Biggest game of the year, 3 carries? If he really has special talent, then Cam is a blind moron. 2 rb sets? Split out LT? Get Turner some touches? Be creative?Nope. Turner was sitting on his ### for most of the playoff game. 3 carries? 8 times in 2006 he had 5 or less carries. (didn't play week 12-14)I'm not saying you're wrong. Maybe Turner is going to be a top 10 RB in 2008. But if he was such a play maker, you'd think they'd find more plays for him in the offense. Listen Reggie Bush sucks at running the ball, but they worked him in. Deuce carried most of the load, and they got creative to get Reggie touches. Where was that for Turner? And in fact, LT had MORE carries then he has had in the last 4 years. With Turner coming of age, why is LT carrying the ball MORE? So my problem is, part of the "Turner is a special talent" argument is, why didn't the Chargers think so? Sure he's a great backup, worth the tender. But if Turner was so special, why didn't they take some of the load off LT? Why didn't they work Turner into the offense? Why in the biggest game of the year Turner was more or less a cheerleader? With LT breaking down in 04/05, where was Turner in 06 to take the load off? Infact they had to rely on LT MORE.I just get a sense that part of this argument is "the Chargers don't realize what they have in Turner". And that's where it gets iffy for me.
I think the fact the Chargers have been rumored to want more then just a first rounder for Turner a good indication that they actually do realize what they have with him. The Chargers love Turner but they can't keep him, he wants to start somewhere, and I don't think there’s too much sentiment that "the Chargers don't realize what they have in Turner". And as for last year, while I do see your point, would you really have wanted to take touches away from LT if you were in the Chargers position? I don't think anyone thinks Turner is better then LT and really when you have the best back in the game and he wants the ball you give it to him no matter who’s on the bench.
On the flip side, other NFL teams don't think that Turner is worth a first rounder.
 
kevinray said:
billyjoe said:
Sigmund Bloom said:
toxicbees said:
BigTex said:
I still can't get over this, people trading a top pick for a backup. :hot:
Not just a backup, but a backup that hasn't proven he can carry the load. We definitely know he can clean up in the 4th in blowout games after the best RB in the league has softened the defense.
The only reason Turner hasn't proven that he can carry the load at the pro level is that he happens to be behind the best RB in the league.From NFL.com:
Code:
CAT	G	Att	Yds	Avg	Lg	TD	1st1ST QUARTER	0	10	78	7.8	25	0	52ND QUARTER	0	16	81	5.1	22	0	33RD QUARTER	0	19	97	5.1	21	0	64TH QUARTER	0	35	246	7.0	73	2	10
more than half his carries came in quarters 1-3 and he was over 5 YPC carry no matter the quarter. The first quarter was actually his best quarter.
Code:
CAT	G	Att	Yds	Avg	Lg	TD	1stMARGIN 0-7	5	28	172	6.1	21	0	8MARGIN 8-14	5	28	155	5.5	25	1	11MARGIN 15+	3	24	175	7.3	73	1	5
Turner was more effective when the game was out of hand, but he was still over 5 YPC no matter the game situation.Of course this is a small sample size (80 carries), but I believe you'd be hard pressed to find any NFL Insider that doesn't think that Turner is one of the 32 best RBs in the league and clearly of starter quality. Compact RBs that run as tough as he does, read holes and blocks as well as he does, and top it off with breakaway speed, are very rare. All it takes is watching Turner play, and you know immediately that he has as much potential as any rookie or college RB this side of Adrian Peterson.
That all sounds great.Biggest game of the year, 3 carries? If he really has special talent, then Cam is a blind moron. 2 rb sets? Split out LT? Get Turner some touches? Be creative?Nope. Turner was sitting on his ### for most of the playoff game. 3 carries? 8 times in 2006 he had 5 or less carries. (didn't play week 12-14)I'm not saying you're wrong. Maybe Turner is going to be a top 10 RB in 2008. But if he was such a play maker, you'd think they'd find more plays for him in the offense. Listen Reggie Bush sucks at running the ball, but they worked him in. Deuce carried most of the load, and they got creative to get Reggie touches. Where was that for Turner? And in fact, LT had MORE carries then he has had in the last 4 years. With Turner coming of age, why is LT carrying the ball MORE? So my problem is, part of the "Turner is a special talent" argument is, why didn't the Chargers think so? Sure he's a great backup, worth the tender. But if Turner was so special, why didn't they take some of the load off LT? Why didn't they work Turner into the offense? Why in the biggest game of the year Turner was more or less a cheerleader? With LT breaking down in 04/05, where was Turner in 06 to take the load off? Infact they had to rely on LT MORE.I just get a sense that part of this argument is "the Chargers don't realize what they have in Turner". And that's where it gets iffy for me.
I think the fact the Chargers have been rumored to want more then just a first rounder for Turner a good indication that they actually do realize what they have with him. The Chargers love Turner but they can't keep him, he wants to start somewhere, and I don't think there’s too much sentiment that "the Chargers don't realize what they have in Turner". And as for last year, while I do see your point, would you really have wanted to take touches away from LT if you were in the Chargers position? I don't think anyone thinks Turner is better then LT and really when you have the best back in the game and he wants the ball you give it to him no matter who’s on the bench.
On the flip side, other NFL teams don't think that Turner is worth a first rounder.
A first rounder plus a 5 million plus per year contract. Not many backs in the NFL that would command that.
 
kevinray said:
billyjoe said:
Sigmund Bloom said:
toxicbees said:
BigTex said:
I still can't get over this, people trading a top pick for a backup. :lmao:
Not just a backup, but a backup that hasn't proven he can carry the load. We definitely know he can clean up in the 4th in blowout games after the best RB in the league has softened the defense.
The only reason Turner hasn't proven that he can carry the load at the pro level is that he happens to be behind the best RB in the league.From NFL.com:
Code:
CAT	G	Att	Yds	Avg	Lg	TD	1st1ST QUARTER	0	10	78	7.8	25	0	52ND QUARTER	0	16	81	5.1	22	0	33RD QUARTER	0	19	97	5.1	21	0	64TH QUARTER	0	35	246	7.0	73	2	10
more than half his carries came in quarters 1-3 and he was over 5 YPC carry no matter the quarter. The first quarter was actually his best quarter.
Code:
CAT	G	Att	Yds	Avg	Lg	TD	1stMARGIN 0-7	5	28	172	6.1	21	0	8MARGIN 8-14	5	28	155	5.5	25	1	11MARGIN 15+	3	24	175	7.3	73	1	5
Turner was more effective when the game was out of hand, but he was still over 5 YPC no matter the game situation.Of course this is a small sample size (80 carries), but I believe you'd be hard pressed to find any NFL Insider that doesn't think that Turner is one of the 32 best RBs in the league and clearly of starter quality. Compact RBs that run as tough as he does, read holes and blocks as well as he does, and top it off with breakaway speed, are very rare. All it takes is watching Turner play, and you know immediately that he has as much potential as any rookie or college RB this side of Adrian Peterson.
That all sounds great.Biggest game of the year, 3 carries? If he really has special talent, then Cam is a blind moron. 2 rb sets? Split out LT? Get Turner some touches? Be creative?Nope. Turner was sitting on his ### for most of the playoff game. 3 carries? 8 times in 2006 he had 5 or less carries. (didn't play week 12-14)I'm not saying you're wrong. Maybe Turner is going to be a top 10 RB in 2008. But if he was such a play maker, you'd think they'd find more plays for him in the offense. Listen Reggie Bush sucks at running the ball, but they worked him in. Deuce carried most of the load, and they got creative to get Reggie touches. Where was that for Turner? And in fact, LT had MORE carries then he has had in the last 4 years. With Turner coming of age, why is LT carrying the ball MORE? So my problem is, part of the "Turner is a special talent" argument is, why didn't the Chargers think so? Sure he's a great backup, worth the tender. But if Turner was so special, why didn't they take some of the load off LT? Why didn't they work Turner into the offense? Why in the biggest game of the year Turner was more or less a cheerleader? With LT breaking down in 04/05, where was Turner in 06 to take the load off? Infact they had to rely on LT MORE.I just get a sense that part of this argument is "the Chargers don't realize what they have in Turner". And that's where it gets iffy for me.
I think the fact the Chargers have been rumored to want more then just a first rounder for Turner a good indication that they actually do realize what they have with him. The Chargers love Turner but they can't keep him, he wants to start somewhere, and I don't think there’s too much sentiment that "the Chargers don't realize what they have in Turner". And as for last year, while I do see your point, would you really have wanted to take touches away from LT if you were in the Chargers position? I don't think anyone thinks Turner is better then LT and really when you have the best back in the game and he wants the ball you give it to him no matter who’s on the bench.
On the flip side, other NFL teams don't think that Turner is worth a first rounder.
they also realize he can be had next year for no picks.
 
On the flip side, other NFL teams don't think that Turner is worth a first rounder.
they also realize he can be had next year for no picks.
The reason the Chargers made the 1st and 3rd tender offer instead of just the 1st is that they believe several teams think Turner is worth a first rounder. (And the Chargers evidently believe that even just one year of Turner's services is worth more than a first rounder.)
 
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On the flip side, other NFL teams don't think that Turner is worth a first rounder.
When Thomas Jones ony costs a 2nd round swap of picks (about the equivalent of a 3rd rounder), the market just doesn't support a 1st rounder even for a talented potential top 10 RB in today's NFL. Too bad for Turner and his fantasy owners.Regarding his talent and whether or not he will be a 'stud' once he leaves SD, much will depend on his situation, but Turner has 'IT' IMHO and may very will be RB1 for fantasy purposes. Unfortunately we'll all be waiting until '08 to find out...
 
On the flip side, other NFL teams don't think that Turner is worth a first rounder.
When Thomas Jones ony costs a 2nd round swap of picks (about the equivalent of a 3rd rounder), the market just doesn't support a 1st rounder even for a talented potential top 10 RB in today's NFL. Too bad for Turner and his fantasy owners.Regarding his talent and whether or not he will be a 'stud' once he leaves SD, much will depend on his situation, but Turner has 'IT' IMHO and may very will be RB1 for fantasy purposes. Unfortunately we'll all be waiting until '08 to find out...
I actually believe he has great talent, that's never been the question. It's owners given away top talent and top draft picks for a back up. As I've said before, many thought Betts would leave Washington but he didn't he re-signed. We shouldn't assume that Turner will leave SD either until he actually does giving away top talent or draft picks to try and get a steal will kill your team.
 
I actually believe he has great talent, that's never been the question. It's owners given away top talent and top draft picks for a back up. As I've said before, many thought Betts would leave Washington but he didn't he re-signed. We shouldn't assume that Turner will leave SD either until he actually does giving away top talent or draft picks to try and get a steal will kill your team.
:thumbup: Agreed 100%

Sometimes you have to take a risk on a player in the 'hopes' that his situation will improve and that you'll reap future rewards once his talent is finally realized.

However, trading away current #1 'studs' (as part of a rebuilding process?) in the 'hopes' that a player will eventually realize his potential and be even 'studlier' is a VERY BAD strategy for your dynasty team. I have been on both sides of deals involving proven talent for picks and/or potential, and when dealing with top 10 talent - more often than not the side that obtained the proven stud 'made out like a bandit'. Even if I am loaded at one position - the only way I'm going to trade away my top level talent is if I get proven talent in return.

He was dealt for Manning in one league and Steve Smith in another by rebuilding owners near the trade deadline last season.
Steve Smith or (Peyton?) Manning for Michael turner? Are you seriuos? :thumbup: :Caveat: There may be rare situations depending on your league/roster/salary cap requirements in some 'keeper leagues' when you must clear some roster/cap space and are so 'loaded' that you may actually give away proven talent for potential talent/picks/$$$. But I would never recommend engaging in a rebuilding project of trading away your top flight players for potential. :loco:

 
Fast forward to 2008 and Turner is a FA. What happens if he ends up in situation like Oakland? Is this Lamont Jordan all over again?

Really, was the return of investment on a guy like Jordan so good that it was worth holding onto him for 4 years? I get the same feeling from Turner. He could turn out to be a solid guy once he lands somewhere, but then again he could turn out to be a one hit wonder or even a bust.

What kind of trades have Turner owners rejected in the past couple of seasons waiting for their lottery ticket to pan out? Burner sure looks good behind LT, but is he really a game changer when put into a bad position? And who knows what happens to Turner in '08. NFL = not for long.

 
kevinray said:
I think the fact the Chargers have been rumored to want more then just a first rounder for Turner a good indication that they actually do realize what they have with him. The Chargers love Turner but they can't keep him, he wants to start somewhere, and I don't think there’s too much sentiment that "the Chargers don't realize what they have in Turner". And as for last year, while I do see your point, would you really have wanted to take touches away from LT if you were in the Chargers position? I don't think anyone thinks Turner is better then LT and really when you have the best back in the game and he wants the ball you give it to him no matter who’s on the bench.
Yes the Chargers realize there are teams hot and heavy over Turner. It's just smart business.But in the BIGGEST game of the year, Turner was NO WHERE to be found. You find ways to use your offensive weapons.Again, LT *BROKEDOWN* in late 2004/2005. So in 2006, you'd think the Chargers would be keeping LT fresh and using the soon to be stud Turner. Um, no. LT carried the ball more then he has in the last 4 years.It just doesn't add up. Yes they understand the perceived value around the league, but talk in cheap. In a must win game, Turner is watching. And yes I understand LT is good. LT is also an awesome receiver. Why not get creative? Put LT in some Reggie Bush type packages, with Turner at RB. Why not let Turner wear down Ds late in the games. Why not keep LT fresh. They rode LT harder then ever, yet I'm suppose to beleive Turner is the next great RB? Just because you have LT, doesn't mean you don't create plays for Gates. Turner is a weapon. LT is a weapon. Other teams find ways to use their weapons. Chargers made NO EFFORT to use Turner. He was an afterthought. I'm sorry if you have a "special talent", you find ways to use him. And the Chargers showed no interesting in doing that. So either the Chargers were in the wrong, or Turner just isn't that great.
 
billyjoe said:
With Turner coming of age, why is LT carrying the ball MORE? So my problem is, part of the "Turner is a special talent" argument is, why didn't the Chargers think so?
The Chargers definitely do think that Turner is a special talent.If Larry Johnson had been on the Chargers last year instead of Turner, he probably wouldn't have gotten any more carries than Turner did.LT is pretty good too.
You have to be joking right?You *find ways* to use your weapons. You'd let a pro bowl RB sit on the sidelines and get 3 carries. You really believe that?Because I'm fairly sure LJ would have been at RB, and LT being split out, a whole heck of a lot. Go watch Deuce/Bush, and we would have seen a whole lot of BOTH RBs in the game. Keep each RB fresh, use both at the same time, run both, throw to both, creative schemes, unique packages. It's called standard NFL offenses. Turner was an afterthought in the SD offense, end of story. And if Turner was such a special offensive playmaker, they would have fit him into the offense.
 
billyjoe said:
With Turner coming of age, why is LT carrying the ball MORE? So my problem is, part of the "Turner is a special talent" argument is, why didn't the Chargers think so?
The Chargers definitely do think that Turner is a special talent.If Larry Johnson had been on the Chargers last year instead of Turner, he probably wouldn't have gotten any more carries than Turner did.LT is pretty good too.
You have to be joking right?You *find ways* to use your weapons. You'd let a pro bowl RB sit on the sidelines and get 3 carries. You really believe that?
Would you really believe they'd also only get the ball in the hands of the best player in the NFL having the best season of his life 9 times in the second half while your QB is working with a bum wheel and the receivers hands have turned to stone? Would you really believe they'd leave Eric Parker in the game and not even try McCardell after Parker proved he couldn't catch a cold in that game?I wouldn't believe it either - but that's what happened.Using the Pats game to determine Turner's abilities is a very, very bad idea.
 
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billyjoe said:
With Turner coming of age, why is LT carrying the ball MORE? So my problem is, part of the "Turner is a special talent" argument is, why didn't the Chargers think so?
The Chargers definitely do think that Turner is a special talent.If Larry Johnson had been on the Chargers last year instead of Turner, he probably wouldn't have gotten any more carries than Turner did.LT is pretty good too.
You have to be joking right?You *find ways* to use your weapons. You'd let a pro bowl RB sit on the sidelines and get 3 carries. You really believe that?Because I'm fairly sure LJ would have been at RB, and LT being split out, a whole heck of a lot. Go watch Deuce/Bush, and we would have seen a whole lot of BOTH RBs in the game. Keep each RB fresh, use both at the same time, run both, throw to both, creative schemes, unique packages. It's called standard NFL offenses. Turner was an afterthought in the SD offense, end of story. And if Turner was such a special offensive playmaker, they would have fit him into the offense.
The logic's good, but NFL teams simply don't always follow this mantra. I mean if the chiefs had used LJ earlier then his third year instead of running Priest into the ground then maybe Priest would still be around to help them now. Yes I know Blaylock was used as well but I find it hard to believe that they wouldn't have at least thought LJ could be a talented back for them. It was an odd choice and not one I would've gone with but they chose to let him ride the pine and over use their stud. I think those who used your same logic on LJ are feeling pretty silly about having doubted him.
 
billyjoe said:
With Turner coming of age, why is LT carrying the ball MORE? So my problem is, part of the "Turner is a special talent" argument is, why didn't the Chargers think so?
The Chargers definitely do think that Turner is a special talent.If Larry Johnson had been on the Chargers last year instead of Turner, he probably wouldn't have gotten any more carries than Turner did.LT is pretty good too.
You have to be joking right?You *find ways* to use your weapons. You'd let a pro bowl RB sit on the sidelines and get 3 carries. You really believe that?Because I'm fairly sure LJ would have been at RB, and LT being split out, a whole heck of a lot. Go watch Deuce/Bush, and we would have seen a whole lot of BOTH RBs in the game. Keep each RB fresh, use both at the same time, run both, throw to both, creative schemes, unique packages. It's called standard NFL offenses. Turner was an afterthought in the SD offense, end of story. And if Turner was such a special offensive playmaker, they would have fit him into the offense.
This is exactly the kind of analysis that leads you to miss the boat on players. You are using a limited sample size (one game) to draw some kind of conclusion that SD doesn't think Turner is talented? At the beginning of the last year, Turner was getting so many carries that LT owners were worrying that it was going to become a split backfield. What do those games prove? Nothing on their own. You have to watch a lot of NFL football and trust your eyes and instincts to evaluate talent. Counting on how a team uses their players as a surrogate for that is NOT a good idea. By the way, in 2001, the Saints knew that Deuce was a very good player even during his rookie year (so much so that they traded away Ricky Williams before the next season started), yet they only ran Deuce 16 times for 91 yards that year, while Williams had a career year. What did prove about Deuce's talent? Nothing. In 1999 and 2000, Priest Holmes averaged 100 carries per year behind Jamal Lewis. What did that prove about Priest's talent? Nothing.Try to have a broader view.
 
billyjoe said:
With Turner coming of age, why is LT carrying the ball MORE? So my problem is, part of the "Turner is a special talent" argument is, why didn't the Chargers think so?
The Chargers definitely do think that Turner is a special talent.If Larry Johnson had been on the Chargers last year instead of Turner, he probably wouldn't have gotten any more carries than Turner did.LT is pretty good too.
You have to be joking right?You *find ways* to use your weapons. You'd let a pro bowl RB sit on the sidelines and get 3 carries. You really believe that?Because I'm fairly sure LJ would have been at RB, and LT being split out, a whole heck of a lot. Go watch Deuce/Bush, and we would have seen a whole lot of BOTH RBs in the game. Keep each RB fresh, use both at the same time, run both, throw to both, creative schemes, unique packages. It's called standard NFL offenses. Turner was an afterthought in the SD offense, end of story. And if Turner was such a special offensive playmaker, they would have fit him into the offense.
No, I'm not joking.LT is the starter. Turner is the backup. Any RB in the league would be the backup behind LT.If the Chargers had Reggie Bush, they may be able to get him onto the field by putting him in the slot. But they're not going to put Michael Turner in the slot. Turner is a pure runner at RB. And they're also not going to take LT out of the backfield (by putting him in the slot) to make room for Turner.The fact that the Niners didn't rotate Steve Young in with Joe Montana doesn't mean they thought Young wasn't all that good. It was just that Montana was the starter. RB is different from QB, and Turner did spell Tomlinson occasionally. But Tomlinson is still going to get the starter's share of the carries.The idea that the Chargers don't think Turner has special talent is inconsistent with the tender offer they gave him.
 
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Turner was an afterthought in the SD offense, end of story. And if Turner was such a special offensive playmaker, they would have fit him into the offense.
billyjoe,Instead of trying to draw your conclusions regarding Turner's talents based on how heavily San Diego used him during LT2's career year, maybe you should ask yourself why they valued him highly enough this offseason to put a 'tag' on him that for all practical purposes blocks any other team from acquiring his services for '07. Theoretically they could have gotten a very good draft pick or two for him if they wanted, but instead they are making it almost impossible for him to leave for at least one more season.

Trust me... If you are in a dynasty league and you can get Turner "on the cheap", then you shouldn't sleep on this guy.

Some players are in great situations and are virtually guaranteed to produce (*if they stay healthy), and then there are other players who will produce in almost any situation because they possess the talent to do things that most of their peers can not.

Turner may or may not fall into the first category (in '08 since he will apparently remain a Charger for one more season), that remains to be seen. IMHO (and I'm not alone here) he is already in the 2nd category based on his talent alone.

 
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GB, Ravens, Giants still must find themselves starting RB's. for the price of McGahee, taking on his salary AND his off the field baggage, teams might rather have Turner. We shall see..

IMO, it could be draft day that he gets traded, or, it could be the start of training camp, but, he'll be dealt, IMO.

 
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nygiants56 said:
GB, Ravens, Giants still must find themselves starting RB's. for the price of McGahee, taking on his salary AND his off the field baggage, teams might rather have Turner. We shall see..IMO, it could be draft day that he gets traded, or, it could be the start of training camp, but, he'll be dealt, IMO.
As a Giants fan, you'll probably agree that the Giants don't need a true starting RB, but rather a complement to Jacobs. That really only leaves the Ravens and GB. I doubt the Chargers will trade with the Ravens so that only leaves GB.As a Turner owner, I hope I'm dead wrong, but I'd say the odds of Turner being traded are 20% at best.
 
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nygiants56 said:
GB, Ravens, Giants still must find themselves starting RB's. for the price of McGahee, taking on his salary AND his off the field baggage, teams might rather have Turner. We shall see..IMO, it could be draft day that he gets traded, or, it could be the start of training camp, but, he'll be dealt, IMO.
As a Giants fan, you'll probably agree that the Giants don't need a true starting RB, but rather a complement to Jacobs. That really only leaves the Ravens and GB. I doubt the Chargers will trade with the Ravens so that only leaves GB.As a Turner owner, I hope I'm dead wrong, but I'd say the odds of Turner being traded are 20% at best.
Well technically the Ravens could give up the first and third and not have to trade with the Chargers, but I don't see that happening.
 
As a Giants fan, you'll probably agree that the Giants don't need a true starting RB, but rather a complement to Jacobs.
I used to think the same thing. I don't own Jacobs in any league, so I don't have any bias toward Jacobs, and I don't see why he can't be the main ball carrier in NY. I'm starting to doubt whether the Giants see Jacobs in that role. I'm starting to think they want him in the same role he played when they had Tiki.
 
As a Giants fan, you'll probably agree that the Giants don't need a true starting RB, but rather a complement to Jacobs.
I used to think the same thing. I don't own Jacobs in any league, so I don't have any bias toward Jacobs, and I don't see why he can't be the main ball carrier in NY. I'm starting to doubt whether the Giants see Jacobs in that role. I'm starting to think they want him in the same role he played when they had Tiki.
I think the Giants are cautiously optomistic with Jacobs. If they wanted him in the same role as he player with Tiki, a short yardage back/goaline back, I would think that they would be persuing a starting RB more rigorously and not let Rhodes leave town once Rhodes agent said he was looking for "starter" money.There is the possibility that the Giants simply haven't found a better option as of yet, or are waiting for the draft, but I haven't seen any indication as of yet that the Giants are convinced that Jacobs can't handle the job.
 

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