Did Edge and Peyton make the Indi O-Line look good? (1 Viewer)

[RabidRabbit]

So which theory -- does the O-line make the skill players or do the skill players make the O-line.

Clearly in Denver the O-line makes the RB.

I've heard that the Indi line was average at best over the years, yet Edge and Peyton always produce.

Given the RB shuffle that is shaping up after the bid 3, is there a better than not likelihood that Edge produces 1400/300/13 this year and makes the Arizona O-line look competent (along with Warner and the two phenom wideouts?

Thanks.

 

[SSOG]

Fun stats for everyone.

Indianapolis actually gained the LOWEST PERCENTAGE of its rushing yardage 10+ yards past the line of scrimmage. That means the vast majority of their rushing yards came on runs for 1-10 yards, and they had the lowest percentage of their rushing yards come from 20, 30, or 40 yard runs.

What does this mean? It means that Edgerrin James got his yards in huge consistant 1-10 yard chunks, more than any other RB in the entire NFL. You can interpret that any way you want, but I choose to interpret that stat as suggesting that the primary responsibility for Edge's success was the O-Line. They got him consistant gaps and he got consistant chunks of yardage, but he didn't make much happen on his own.

Another fun stat- if you count all carries over 10 yards as just a 10 yard run (i.e. so if an RB runs for 23, 56, and 34 yards, count that as 3 runs of 10 yards each), and then calculate the new yards per carry, you get "adjusted line yards". This statistic helps paint a picture of how much yardage the offensive line is responsible (since the offensive line typically has little to do with an run once it's 10+ yards past the line of scrimmage- after that it's the WRs and RB who make things happen). Indy was #1 in the league in adjusted line yards (4.71 ypc). Arizona was #32 in the league in adjusted line yards (3.26 ypc). Personally, I choose to believe that Indy's O-line made Edge look better than Edge made Indy's O-line look.

 

[BoulderBob]

Fun stats for everyone.Indianapolis actually gained the LOWEST PERCENTAGE of its rushing yardage 10+ yards past the line of scrimmage. That means the vast majority of their rushing yards came on runs for 1-10 yards, and they had the lowest percentage of their rushing yards come from 20, 30, or 40 yard runs.What does this mean? It means that Edgerrin James got his yards in huge consistant 1-10 yard chunks, more than any other RB in the entire NFL. You can interpret that any way you want, but I choose to interpret that stat as suggesting that the primary responsibility for Edge's success was the O-Line. They got him consistant gaps and he got consistant chunks of yardage, but he didn't make much happen on his own.Another fun stat- if you count all carries over 10 yards as just a 10 yard run (i.e. so if an RB runs for 23, 56, and 34 yards, count that as 3 runs of 10 yards each), and then calculate the new yards per carry, you get "adjusted line yards". This statistic helps paint a picture of how much yardage the offensive line is responsible (since the offensive line typically has little to do with an run once it's 10+ yards past the line of scrimmage- after that it's the WRs and RB who make things happen). Indy was #1 in the league in adjusted line yards (4.71 ypc). Arizona was #32 in the league in adjusted line yards (3.26 ypc). Personally, I choose to believe that Indy's O-line made Edge look better than Edge made Indy's O-line look.

I agree with you. Edge is a nice back, but after the injury his line/QB/stud receivers have been the reason for most of his success. The guy is not worth a #1 pick this season.

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

Fun stats for everyone.Indianapolis actually gained the LOWEST PERCENTAGE of its rushing yardage 10+ yards past the line of scrimmage. That means the vast majority of their rushing yards came on runs for 1-10 yards, and they had the lowest percentage of their rushing yards come from 20, 30, or 40 yard runs.What does this mean? It means that Edgerrin James got his yards in huge consistant 1-10 yard chunks, more than any other RB in the entire NFL. You can interpret that any way you want, but I choose to interpret that stat as suggesting that the primary responsibility for Edge's success was the O-Line. They got him consistant gaps and he got consistant chunks of yardage, but he didn't make much happen on his own.Another fun stat- if you count all carries over 10 yards as just a 10 yard run (i.e. so if an RB runs for 23, 56, and 34 yards, count that as 3 runs of 10 yards each), and then calculate the new yards per carry, you get "adjusted line yards". This statistic helps paint a picture of how much yardage the offensive line is responsible (since the offensive line typically has little to do with an run once it's 10+ yards past the line of scrimmage- after that it's the WRs and RB who make things happen). Indy was #1 in the league in adjusted line yards (4.71 ypc). Arizona was #32 in the league in adjusted line yards (3.26 ypc). Personally, I choose to believe that Indy's O-line made Edge look better than Edge made Indy's O-line look.

Great stuff as usual -- nice brain food for thought. I assume that the stats you are using are just over the last year. I haven't gone back over game logs, but I wonder, if indeed these #s were just from last year, how much the 1-10 yard chunks owed to Indy playing ball control once they had a sustainable, if not comfortable lead. Grinding out the clock, you rely on a pretty vanilla up the gut running plan, and Edge was probably not too concerned about breaking one out into the secondary as he was converting that 2nd and 5 to a 1st and 10.Me, I tend to think that it all begins in the trenches. You can have all the talent in the world -- it will certainly help an RB shine among a shoddy offence as a whole. But if your guys up front aren't executing, punching holes or moving DLs off the line, then even the most gifted RB is going to be hampered.

 

[SSOG]

Fun stats for everyone.Indianapolis actually gained the LOWEST PERCENTAGE of its rushing yardage 10+ yards past the line of scrimmage. That means the vast majority of their rushing yards came on runs for 1-10 yards, and they had the lowest percentage of their rushing yards come from 20, 30, or 40 yard runs.What does this mean? It means that Edgerrin James got his yards in huge consistant 1-10 yard chunks, more than any other RB in the entire NFL. You can interpret that any way you want, but I choose to interpret that stat as suggesting that the primary responsibility for Edge's success was the O-Line. They got him consistant gaps and he got consistant chunks of yardage, but he didn't make much happen on his own.Another fun stat- if you count all carries over 10 yards as just a 10 yard run (i.e. so if an RB runs for 23, 56, and 34 yards, count that as 3 runs of 10 yards each), and then calculate the new yards per carry, you get "adjusted line yards". This statistic helps paint a picture of how much yardage the offensive line is responsible (since the offensive line typically has little to do with an run once it's 10+ yards past the line of scrimmage- after that it's the WRs and RB who make things happen). Indy was #1 in the league in adjusted line yards (4.71 ypc). Arizona was #32 in the league in adjusted line yards (3.26 ypc). Personally, I choose to believe that Indy's O-line made Edge look better than Edge made Indy's O-line look.

Great stuff as usual -- nice brain food for thought. I assume that the stats you are using are just over the last year. I haven't gone back over game logs, but I wonder, if indeed these #s were just from last year, how much the 1-10 yard chunks owed to Indy playing ball control once they had a sustainable, if not comfortable lead. Grinding out the clock, you rely on a pretty vanilla up the gut running plan, and Edge was probably not too concerned about breaking one out into the secondary as he was converting that 2nd and 5 to a 1st and 10.Me, I tend to think that it all begins in the trenches. You can have all the talent in the world -- it will certainly help an RB shine among a shoddy offence as a whole. But if your guys up front aren't executing, punching holes or moving DLs off the line, then even the most gifted RB is going to be hampered.

I feel like, no matter what the score is, every time an RB touches the ball he wants to break it to the house. I don't think running with the lead would reduce the number of 10+ yard gains. If anything, running well with the lead would only emphasize how good the O-line is, since they have to deal with more blockers.Since you asked, though... Indy lead the league in adjusted line yards in 2004, too. In 2003, they ranked 7th. In 2004, they ranked 27th in % of yards that came 10+ yards past the line of scrimmage (i.e. only 5 teams had fewer long runs), and in 2003, they ranked 30th. So it's not a one-year fluke- there is a strong body of evidence supporting the fact that Indy is the best team in the league at getting runs of 1-10 yards, and one of the worst teams in the league at getting runs of 11+ yards.If you want a comparison, Denver ranked 2nd in adjusted line yards in 2005, 8th in 2004, and 10th in 2003- so they have a history of very strong blocking from the O-Line. HOWEVER, they also ranked 5th, 15th, and 5th in terms of % of yards that came 10+ yards past the line of scrimmage, which means they also have a history of RBs making stuff happen once they make it to the second level.For another comparison for people interested in the stats... Kansas City has ranked 3rd in adjusted line yards for the past 3 seasons. That suggests that their O-line was really, really good (I'm sure no one will argue the point); HOWEVER, in 2005, they ranked 7th in terms of % of yards that came 10+ yards past the LoS, while in 2004 and 2003 they ranked 23rd and 22nd respectively. That suggests that, for all of Priest Holmes' strengths, he wasn't as good once you got him to the second level as Larry Johnson was last year.

 

[Todem]

No

What else can I say. The AZ line is total garbage.

 

[pizzatyme]

SSOG, great statistical analysis. However, I'd like to give you a season ticket holder's take on this. I saw 11 of the Colts games in person each of the last 2 seasons, and at lease 8 in each of the last 5.

It is definitely not the O-line making the room for the running or passing game. It is the threat of the passing game that keeps the defense on their heels.

Since Peyton has the quick release and an offense designed to hit the hot read in whatever perceived mismatch presents itself, this makes the line look good.

In fact, the Colts have 2 exceptional O lineman. C- Jeff Saturday, and LT- Tarik Glenn. The rest are a bunch of scrubs.

The design of the stretch play, along with the threat of Edge hitting one inside also keeps defenses honest.

Edge is not a speedster, and if they run the stretch, this play is not designed to allow Edge to break off 11+ yard runs. It is designed for 3-7 yards. But more importantly, to give the passing game the chance to fake the stretch and make a big play deep.

It's not like Peyton can just stand back in the pocket and make several reads on each play. This isn't the Indy passing game at all. Typically, Manning reads the defense, knows who the hot read is, and makes the quick strike.

It is only on occasion that Indy makes the 40+ yd. pass play through the air.

Now, not that they would anyway, but how many times does anyone remember the Colts doing any kind of trick play where the ball goes to the RB and then back to Manning for a pass? I can think of never! In my opinion, this is because Tom Moore knows there is no chance in hell that the line holds long enough to make this happen.

With all of this said, I still don't think Edge is a top 10 back this season. The difference is that Tom Moore is not with the Cards. The Indy offenseive game plan is not in Arizona.

I do think the threat of the run will certainly help their passing game. I also think it will keep Warner upright. I would look at the passing game in AZ as the upgrade.

 

[KoolKat]

I've had Edge on my Dynasty Team since the beginning of his career, and have been watching the majority of his games in those years. I am really worried about a significant decline in his stats going from Indy to AZ. After he blew out his knee, James lost the explosiveness he had once had as a rookie. Still being a talented RB, Edge adapted, and as has been said, now the majority of his carries are from 5-9 yards. If the AZ OL is unable to get that push for Edge he may be looking at the majority of his carries to go from 2-6 yards. He may see a slight increase in his receiving stats since the Cards will be playing from behind a lot during the season. However, I don't believe Edge has the explosiveness to be a large part of the passing game, he is more of a dump off pass receiver. James situation reminds me of when Ricky Watters went from SF to Seattle. Watters was still a serviceable back, but was no longer the stud he was for the 49ers.

 

[pizzatyme]

It has to be painfully obvious that the Colts O-line is just average. The scheme is Manning cover an awful lot of flaws. Especially Ryan Diem the right tackle. Dude sucks!