Did Millen get a fair chance to succeed? (1 Viewer)

[Mr Capicollo]

I know it's popular around here to jump all over a guy when he's down, but objectively speaking did Matt Millen get a fair chance to succeed in Detroit? We can all agree that if this was a well-run organization, like the Titans for example, where Millen goes in with a good scouting department and all the staff he needs to get things done right, then his job is a lot easier. But Millen's dealing with the incompetency of the owner right on down through the waterboy, with nobody around him to help him win, and yet he gets blamed.

He has a head coach walk out of practice and ride away on a motorcycle thinking that's a fresh way to motivate a team. He's got clueless fans chanting for his removal. Dude's got no friends anywhere, and he gets all the blame.

As for draft picks, I don't recall there being a lot of people on this board predicting that Charles Rogers was going to be a giant bust. Why should one pick define a guy's career? Didn't he pick Roy Williams too?

I just hope that this tenure in Detroit doesn't define him as a person and as a football man. Hopefully people can see that he had two strikes against him the way that Lane Kiffin does in Oakland.

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

Yeah I mean Charles Rogers was their only bad pick after all.

 

[switz]

I know it's popular around here to jump all over a guy when he's down, but objectively speaking did Matt Millen get a fair chance to succeed in Detroit? We can all agree that if this was a well-run organization, like the Titans for example, where Millen goes in with a good scouting department and all the staff he needs to get things done right, then his job is a lot easier. But Millen's dealing with the incompetency of the owner right on down through the waterboy, with nobody around him to help him win, and yet he gets blamed. He has a head coach walk out of practice and ride away on a motorcycle thinking that's a fresh way to motivate a team. He's got clueless fans chanting for his removal. Dude's got no friends anywhere, and he gets all the blame. As for draft picks, I don't recall there being a lot of people on this board predicting that Charles Rogers was going to be a giant bust. Why should one pick define a guy's career? Didn't he pick Roy Williams too? I just hope that this tenure in Detroit doesn't define him as a person and as a football man. Hopefully people can see that he had two strikes against him the way that Lane Kiffin does in Oakland.

There's more to being a GM than just drafts.... there's hiring of coaches and staff (including scouts), there's signing/losing FAs.... Millen was horrible in every aspect of GMing...If you want to argue the organization isn't good - that falls on Millen, since that's his job

 

[5Rings]

4/10

 

[PR Sparty]

Is this a serious thread? 31-84

Draft...

Clinton Portis.........Kalimba Edwards

Bob Sanders...........Teddy Lehman

Sean Merriman........Mike Williams

Dwight Freeny........Joey Harrington

Andre Johnson.........Charles Rogers

Brian Westbrook.......Andre Goodman

Lofa Tatupu.............Shaun Cody

Osi Umenyiora..............Boss Bailey

Marcus McNeil..............Daniel Bullocks

Nate Clements..............Jeff Backus

Free Agent Signings...

Az-Zahir Hakim

Bill Schroeder

Brock Marion

Fernando Bryant

Kenoy Kennedy

Olandis Gary

Shaun Bryson

Mikheal Ricks

Bracy Walker

Tatum Bell

Rick DeMulling

Tai Streets

Reggie Swinton

Josh McCown

 

[omally]

 

[B-Deep]

the op owes me a new pair of dockers, as the topic alone made me laugh so hard i seem to urinated on myself

 

[Banger]

I know it's popular around here to jump all over a guy when he's down, but objectively speaking did Matt Millen get a fair chance to succeed in Detroit? We can all agree that if this was a well-run organization, like the Titans for example, where Millen goes in with a good scouting department and all the staff he needs to get things done right, then his job is a lot easier. But Millen's dealing with the incompetency of the owner right on down through the waterboy, with nobody around him to help him win, and yet he gets blamed. He has a head coach walk out of practice and ride away on a motorcycle thinking that's a fresh way to motivate a team. He's got clueless fans chanting for his removal. Dude's got no friends anywhere, and he gets all the blame. As for draft picks, I don't recall there being a lot of people on this board predicting that Charles Rogers was going to be a giant bust. Why should one pick define a guy's career? Didn't he pick Roy Williams too? I just hope that this tenure in Detroit doesn't define him as a person and as a football man. Hopefully people can see that he had two strikes against him the way that Lane Kiffin does in Oakland.

They should've given him another 100 games...these turnarounds take time...

 

[Limp Ditka]

I know it's popular around here to jump all over a guy when he's down, but objectively speaking did Matt Millen get a fair chance to succeed in Detroit? We can all agree that if this was a well-run organization, like the Titans for example, where Millen goes in with a good scouting department and all the staff he needs to get things done right, then his job is a lot easier. But Millen's dealing with the incompetency of the owner right on down through the waterboy, with nobody around him to help him win, and yet he gets blamed. He has a head coach walk out of practice and ride away on a motorcycle thinking that's a fresh way to motivate a team. He's got clueless fans chanting for his removal. Dude's got no friends anywhere, and he gets all the blame. As for draft picks, I don't recall there being a lot of people on this board predicting that Charles Rogers was going to be a giant bust. Why should one pick define a guy's career? Didn't he pick Roy Williams too? I just hope that this tenure in Detroit doesn't define him as a person and as a football man. Hopefully people can see that he had two strikes against him the way that Lane Kiffin does in Oakland.

There's more to being a GM than just drafts.... there's hiring of coaches and staff (including scouts), there's signing/losing FAs.... Millen was horrible in every aspect of GMing...If you want to argue the organization isn't good - that falls on Millen, since that's his job

Do you know what kind of budget he had to work with to set a solid foundation of coaches and staff? How did that budget compare to the budget of other NFL teams? Do you know how much WCF meddled with who was hired into these positions?It's quite possible that he was doomed from the start and thought he could still make it work despite the deck being stacked against him. Or maybe he just too damn proud to walk away.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

I know it's popular around here to jump all over a guy when he's down, but objectively speaking did Matt Millen get a fair chance to succeed in Detroit? We can all agree that if this was a well-run organization, like the Titans for example, where Millen goes in with a good scouting department and all the staff he needs to get things done right, then his job is a lot easier. But Millen's dealing with the incompetency of the owner right on down through the waterboy, with nobody around him to help him win, and yet he gets blamed. He has a head coach walk out of practice and ride away on a motorcycle thinking that's a fresh way to motivate a team. He's got clueless fans chanting for his removal. Dude's got no friends anywhere, and he gets all the blame. As for draft picks, I don't recall there being a lot of people on this board predicting that Charles Rogers was going to be a giant bust. Why should one pick define a guy's career? Didn't he pick Roy Williams too? I just hope that this tenure in Detroit doesn't define him as a person and as a football man. Hopefully people can see that he had two strikes against him the way that Lane Kiffin does in Oakland.

They should've given him another 100 games...these turnarounds take time...

I say 1000 games is necessary to judge anyone by, any smaller of a sample size is not conclusive.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

I know it's popular around here to jump all over a guy when he's down, but objectively speaking did Matt Millen get a fair chance to succeed in Detroit? We can all agree that if this was a well-run organization, like the Titans for example, where Millen goes in with a good scouting department and all the staff he needs to get things done right, then his job is a lot easier. But Millen's dealing with the incompetency of the owner right on down through the waterboy, with nobody around him to help him win, and yet he gets blamed. He has a head coach walk out of practice and ride away on a motorcycle thinking that's a fresh way to motivate a team. He's got clueless fans chanting for his removal. Dude's got no friends anywhere, and he gets all the blame. As for draft picks, I don't recall there being a lot of people on this board predicting that Charles Rogers was going to be a giant bust. Why should one pick define a guy's career? Didn't he pick Roy Williams too? I just hope that this tenure in Detroit doesn't define him as a person and as a football man. Hopefully people can see that he had two strikes against him the way that Lane Kiffin does in Oakland.

There's more to being a GM than just drafts.... there's hiring of coaches and staff (including scouts), there's signing/losing FAs.... Millen was horrible in every aspect of GMing...If you want to argue the organization isn't good - that falls on Millen, since that's his job

Do you know what kind of budget he had to work with to set a solid foundation of coaches and staff? How did that budget compare to the budget of other NFL teams? Do you know how much WCF meddled with who was hired into these positions?It's quite possible that he was doomed from the start and thought he could still make it work despite the deck being stacked against him. Or maybe he just too damn proud to walk away.

 

[W1cked]

Just some things off the top of my head.

Draft day screw ups.

Mike Williams?

Overpaying to keep average at best talent (Backus)

Overpaying for average FA talent.

Judgement of coaching talent.

 

[TheDirtyWord]

I know it's popular around here to jump all over a guy when he's down, but objectively speaking did Matt Millen get a fair chance to succeed in Detroit? We can all agree that if this was a well-run organization, like the Titans for example, where Millen goes in with a good scouting department and all the staff he needs to get things done right, then his job is a lot easier. But Millen's dealing with the incompetency of the owner right on down through the waterboy, with nobody around him to help him win, and yet he gets blamed. He has a head coach walk out of practice and ride away on a motorcycle thinking that's a fresh way to motivate a team. He's got clueless fans chanting for his removal. Dude's got no friends anywhere, and he gets all the blame. As for draft picks, I don't recall there being a lot of people on this board predicting that Charles Rogers was going to be a giant bust. Why should one pick define a guy's career? Didn't he pick Roy Williams too? I just hope that this tenure in Detroit doesn't define him as a person and as a football man. Hopefully people can see that he had two strikes against him the way that Lane Kiffin does in Oakland.

Ashton?

 

[Limp Ditka]

I know it's popular around here to jump all over a guy when he's down, but objectively speaking did Matt Millen get a fair chance to succeed in Detroit? We can all agree that if this was a well-run organization, like the Titans for example, where Millen goes in with a good scouting department and all the staff he needs to get things done right, then his job is a lot easier. But Millen's dealing with the incompetency of the owner right on down through the waterboy, with nobody around him to help him win, and yet he gets blamed. He has a head coach walk out of practice and ride away on a motorcycle thinking that's a fresh way to motivate a team. He's got clueless fans chanting for his removal. Dude's got no friends anywhere, and he gets all the blame. As for draft picks, I don't recall there being a lot of people on this board predicting that Charles Rogers was going to be a giant bust. Why should one pick define a guy's career? Didn't he pick Roy Williams too? I just hope that this tenure in Detroit doesn't define him as a person and as a football man. Hopefully people can see that he had two strikes against him the way that Lane Kiffin does in Oakland.

There's more to being a GM than just drafts.... there's hiring of coaches and staff (including scouts), there's signing/losing FAs.... Millen was horrible in every aspect of GMing...If you want to argue the organization isn't good - that falls on Millen, since that's his job

Do you know what kind of budget he had to work with to set a solid foundation of coaches and staff? How did that budget compare to the budget of other NFL teams? Do you know how much WCF meddled with who was hired into these positions?It's quite possible that he was doomed from the start and thought he could still make it work despite the deck being stacked against him. Or maybe he just too damn proud to walk away.

That's funny. I just had the same reaction when I read the team in your signature.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Actually, I do think it has been very difficult for anyone to succeed in Detroit during the last eight year or so. The team has been terribly mismanaged.

 

[The Man Who Met Andy Griffith]

Actually, I do think it has been very difficult for anyone to succeed in Detroit during the last eight year or so. The team has been terribly mismanaged.

Is this sarcasm? Yes, the owner is lousy (exhibit one: hiring Millen. exhibit two: not firing Millen). But Ford is neither particularly meddlesome nor particularly cheap. Given this, 100% of the responsibility falls on the GM, since it is he who hires the coach, conducts the drafts, etc.

 

[switz]

Do you know what kind of budget he had to work with to set a solid foundation of coaches and staff?

How did that budget compare to the budget of other NFL teams?

I don't think money was the problem.http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2008/...ith_50_mil.html

Millen could leave with $50 million

by Tom Kowalski

Wednesday September 24, 2008, 2:15 PM

Now that the Detroit Lions have fired Matt Millen as president, an interesting detail surfaced about his regime.

It had been widely reported that Millen made $3 million per season during his first five-year contract and then got a bump to $5 million per season for his five-year extension. According to a source close to the situation, Millen's pay has been $5 million per season from the first year he was hired (2001). Millen has already pocketed more than $35 million in his first seven-plus years and is scheduled to make $50 million for the entire 10-year term.

Because he was fired, Millen is due the total sum of that money; he would've forfeited the rest of his salary if he had resigned. What isn't known is whether Millen and owner William Clay Ford came to some kind of buyout agreement for the final two-plus years of his contract

I'm not sure if he's your friend, family, whatever... he could be a great guy, but his handling of the Lions as a franchise is beyond inept, it's indefensible.

 

[Liquid Tension]

Is this a serious thread? 31-84Draft...Clinton Portis.........Kalimba EdwardsBob Sanders...........Teddy LehmanSean Merriman........Mike WilliamsDwight Freeny........Joey HarringtonAndre Johnson.........Charles RogersBrian Westbrook.......Andre GoodmanLofa Tatupu.............Shaun CodyOsi Umenyiora..............Boss BaileyMarcus McNeil..............Daniel BullocksNate Clements..............Jeff Backus Free Agent Signings...Az-Zahir HakimBill Schroeder Brock MarionFernando Bryant Kenoy Kennedy Olandis GaryShaun BrysonMikheal RicksBracy WalkerTatum Bell Rick DeMulling Tai StreetsReggie SwintonJosh McCown

 

[TwinTurbo]

The only person in the world who might think Matt Millen didn't get a fair chance to succeed is Isaiah Thomas, because honestly he's probably the only other guy that would challenge Millen as the worst GM in professional sports in recent years. Both of these guys were not just poor GM's, they were franchise destroyers.

 

[JAA]

im sure this firing is just a ploy to motivate ...

 

[MSULions]

Is this a serious thread? 31-84

Draft...

Clinton Portis.........Kalimba Edwards

Bob Sanders...........Teddy Lehman

Sean Merriman........Mike Williams

Dwight Freeny........Joey Harrington

Andre Johnson.........Charles Rogers

Brian Westbrook.......Andre Goodman

Lofa Tatupu.............Shaun Cody

Osi Umenyiora..............Boss Bailey

Marcus McNeil..............Daniel Bullocks

Nate Clements..............Jeff Backus

i'm all for bashing millen, but that list (taken from the Free Press who published it today for those that didn't see it) is bunk. a lot of those "better" picks were 10-20 even 30 picks later. I could do that with any team going back 8 years. There are lots of valid reasons to bash Millen, finding the one or two 2nd round gems everyone else also passed on in order to complain about who was picked earlier isn't one of them.

 

[Limp Ditka]

Do you know what kind of budget he had to work with to set a solid foundation of coaches and staff?

How did that budget compare to the budget of other NFL teams?

I don't think money was the problem.http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2008/...ith_50_mil.html

Millen could leave with $50 million

by Tom Kowalski

Wednesday September 24, 2008, 2:15 PM

Now that the Detroit Lions have fired Matt Millen as president, an interesting detail surfaced about his regime.

It had been widely reported that Millen made $3 million per season during his first five-year contract and then got a bump to $5 million per season for his five-year extension. According to a source close to the situation, Millen's pay has been $5 million per season from the first year he was hired (2001). Millen has already pocketed more than $35 million in his first seven-plus years and is scheduled to make $50 million for the entire 10-year term.

Because he was fired, Millen is due the total sum of that money; he would've forfeited the rest of his salary if he had resigned. What isn't known is whether Millen and owner William Clay Ford came to some kind of buyout agreement for the final two-plus years of his contract

I'm not sure if he's your friend, family, whatever... he could be a great guy, but his handling of the Lions as a franchise is beyond inept, it's indefensible.

And Matt Millen was supposed to give up that dime to hire capable coaches and staff? I don't think so. He still had a budget to work within when it came to amassing the coaches, staff, scouts, etc. Let take Marinelli's salary as exhibit A. It is $1.5M per. That's tied for 30th in the NFL. Do you think it's possible that the salaries of the other coaches and staff of the Detroit Lions, when compared to the rest of the NFL, is on par with this?I don't only think it's possible, I think it's likely. Very likely.

 

[blend]

the lions are still paying mooch 5mil/year -- the purse strings were open to bring in coaches. Millen just didn't know who to hire, fire, sign, draft from coaches to players to scouts to player personnel folks.

to say he didn't get a fair shake is laughable.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Actually, I do think it has been very difficult for anyone to succeed in Detroit during the last eight year or so. The team has been terribly mismanaged.

Is this sarcasm? Yes, the owner is lousy (exhibit one: hiring Millen. exhibit two: not firing Millen). But Ford is neither particularly meddlesome nor particularly cheap. Given this, 100% of the responsibility falls on the GM, since it is he who hires the coach, conducts the drafts, etc.

If I were trying to blame Ford, I would have said that the team has been terribly mis-owned.

 

[switz]

Do you know what kind of budget he had to work with to set a solid foundation of coaches and staff?

How did that budget compare to the budget of other NFL teams?

I don't think money was the problem.http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2008/...ith_50_mil.html

Millen could leave with $50 million

by Tom Kowalski

Wednesday September 24, 2008, 2:15 PM

Now that the Detroit Lions have fired Matt Millen as president, an interesting detail surfaced about his regime.

It had been widely reported that Millen made $3 million per season during his first five-year contract and then got a bump to $5 million per season for his five-year extension. According to a source close to the situation, Millen's pay has been $5 million per season from the first year he was hired (2001). Millen has already pocketed more than $35 million in his first seven-plus years and is scheduled to make $50 million for the entire 10-year term.

Because he was fired, Millen is due the total sum of that money; he would've forfeited the rest of his salary if he had resigned. What isn't known is whether Millen and owner William Clay Ford came to some kind of buyout agreement for the final two-plus years of his contract

I'm not sure if he's your friend, family, whatever... he could be a great guy, but his handling of the Lions as a franchise is beyond inept, it's indefensible.

And Matt Millen was supposed to give up that dime to hire capable coaches and staff? I don't think so. He still had a budget to work within when it came to amassing the coaches, staff, scouts, etc. Let take Marinelli's salary as exhibit A. It is $1.5M per. That's tied for 30th in the NFL. Do you think it's possible that the salaries of the other coaches and staff of the Detroit Lions, when compared to the rest of the NFL, is on par with this?I don't only think it's possible, I think it's likely. Very likely.

I don't think you understand.... Millen set the salaries of the coaches, etc. He made the choice as to what they got paid. Ford has been very open with his wallet during Millen's tenure... I'm sorry you are looking for excuses to defend him, because so far, the ones you are trying to use aren't valid. There was no shortage of money available to Millen.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

And Matt Millen was supposed to give up that dime to hire capable coaches and staff? I don't think so. He still had a budget to work within when it came to amassing the coaches, staff, scouts, etc. Let take Marinelli's salary as exhibit A. It is $1.5M per. That's tied for 30th in the NFL. Do you think it's possible that the salaries of the other coaches and staff of the Detroit Lions, when compared to the rest of the NFL, is on par with this?I don't only think it's possible, I think it's likely. Very likely.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I agree.

I also think that George Bush has been short changed. I say we give him another four years, you know, to see if he can turn this thing around.

 

[wholligans]

I know it's popular around here to jump all over a guy when he's down, but objectively speaking did Matt Millen get a fair chance to succeed in Detroit? We can all agree that if this was a well-run organization, like the Titans for example, where Millen goes in with a good scouting department and all the staff he needs to get things done right, then his job is a lot easier. But Millen's dealing with the incompetency of the owner right on down through the waterboy, with nobody around him to help him win, and yet he gets blamed.

He has a head coach walk out of practice and ride away on a motorcycle thinking that's a fresh way to motivate a team. He's got clueless fans chanting for his removal. Dude's got no friends anywhere, and he gets all the blame.

As for draft picks, I don't recall there being a lot of people on this board predicting that Charles Rogers was going to be a giant bust. Why should one pick define a guy's career? Didn't he pick Roy Williams too?

I just hope that this tenure in Detroit doesn't define him as a person and as a football man. Hopefully people can see that he had two strikes against him the way that Lane Kiffin does in Oakland.

Clueless fans??? You have to be kidding. Millen is the one who is clueless. The fans of Detroit realized Millen was clueless early on. The problem is, we didn't have the power to fire him.

 

[MSULions]

Is this a serious thread? 31-84

Draft...

Clinton Portis.........Kalimba Edwards

Bob Sanders...........Teddy Lehman

Sean Merriman........Mike Williams

Dwight Freeny........Joey Harrington

Andre Johnson.........Charles Rogers

Brian Westbrook.......Andre Goodman

Lofa Tatupu.............Shaun Cody

Osi Umenyiora..............Boss Bailey

Marcus McNeil..............Daniel Bullocks

Nate Clements..............Jeff Backus

i'm all for bashing millen, but that list (taken from the Free Press who published it today for those that didn't see it) is bunk. a lot of those "better" picks were 10-20 even 30 picks later. I could do that with any team going back 8 years. There are lots of valid reasons to bash Millen, finding the one or two 2nd round gems everyone else also passed on in order to complain about who was picked earlier isn't one of them.

just as an illustration of my point....let's take Portis v. Kalimba...here's the second round that year:33 Jabar Gaffney WR Florida Houston Texans

34 DeShaun Foster RB UCLA Carolina Panthers

35 Kalimba Edwards DE South Carolina Detroit Lions

36 Josh Reed WR Louisiana State Buffalo Bills

37 Andre Gurode G Colorado Dallas Cowboys

38 Raonall Smith LB Washington State Minnesota Vikings

39 Toniu Fonoti G Nebraska San Diego Chargers

40 Mike Pearson T Florida Jacksonville Jaguars

41 Lamont Thompson DB Washington State Cincinnati Bengals

42 Larry Tripplett DT Washington Indianapolis Colts

43 Eddie Freeman DT Alabama-Birmingham Kansas City Chiefs

44 LeCharles Bentley G Ohio State New Orleans Saints

45 Tank Williams SS Stanford Tennessee Titans

46 Tim Carter WR Auburn New York Giants

47 Andre Davis WR Virginia Tech Cleveland Browns

48 Reche Caldwell WR Florida San Diego Chargers

49 Levar Fisher LB North Carolina State Arizona Cardinals

50 Chester Pitts T San Diego State Houston Texans

51 Clinton Portis RB Miami (Fla.) Denver Broncos

52 Anthony Weaver DE Notre Dame Baltimore Ravens

53 Langston Walker T California Oakland Raiders

54 Maurice Morris RB Oregon Seattle Seahawks

55 Doug Jolley TE Brigham Young Oakland Raiders

56 Ladell Betts RB Iowa Washington Redskins

57 Jon McGraw DB Kansas State New York Jets

58 Michael M. Lewis SS Colorado Philadelphia Eagles

59 Sheldon Brown CB South Carolina Philadelphia Eagles

60 Anton Palepoi DE Nevada-Las Vegas Seattle Seahawks

61 Ryan Denney DE Brigham Young Buffalo Bills

62 Antwaan Randle El WR Indiana Pittsburgh Steelers

63 Antonio Bryant WR Pittsburgh Dallas Cowboys

64 Travis Fisher CB Central Florida St. Louis Rams

65 Deion Branch WR Louisville New England Patriots

15 other teams took other players too...none of them as good as portis. you can do this with each one of those examples. Joey Blue Skies was taken 3rd, Freeney 11th - what about picks 4-10? Did they screw up too? That year the split was 50/50 between Jammer and Harrington. Jammer hasn't exactly lit the world on fire...but NO ONE would have said take a DE from Syracuse at #3...and he would have been skewered for doing so.

Like i said, there are a million reasons for criticizing Millen...but that list is stupid.

 

[kaa]

No-one in the NFL gets a fair chance to succeed. The seasons ARE too short to make a sound analysis. Mistakes are made everywhere, and there is a TON of potential refinement in how organizations are run. Honestly I think most people have the potential to excel, and it comes down to putting them in a position to succeed. As the saying goes, "he can take hizuns and beat youins, and then take youins and beat hizuns".

I'm sure Millen has strengths and if he was put in the right situation he can do well. But it didn't happen.

 

[meeka]

I heard yesterday that the Lions were 8-40 on the road under Millen. I am thinking this could be an unbreakable record. Who could be that bad for that long and not get axed after a few years?

 

[meeka]

No-one in the NFL gets a fair chance to succeed. The seasons ARE too short to make a sound analysis. Mistakes are made everywhere, and there is a TON of potential refinement in how organizations are run. Honestly I think most people have the potential to excel, and it comes down to putting them in a position to succeed. As the saying goes, "he can take hizuns and beat youins, and then take youins and beat hizuns".I'm sure Millen has strengths and if he was put in the right situation he can do well. But it didn't happen.

I agree, put him back in the booth.

 

[5Rings]

The only person in the world who might think Matt Millen didn't get a fair chance to succeed is Isaiah Thomas, because honestly he's probably the only other guy that would challenge Millen as the worst GM in professional sports in recent years. Both of these guys were not just poor GM's, they were franchise destroyers.

The current Ram front office is trying their best as well as the Crypt Keeper in Oaktown

 

[azgroover]

Is this a serious thread? 31-84

Draft...

Clinton Portis.........Kalimba Edwards

Bob Sanders...........Teddy Lehman

Sean Merriman........Mike Williams

Dwight Freeny........Joey Harrington

Andre Johnson.........Charles Rogers

Brian Westbrook.......Andre Goodman

Lofa Tatupu.............Shaun Cody

Osi Umenyiora..............Boss Bailey

Marcus McNeil..............Daniel Bullocks

Nate Clements..............Jeff Backus

i'm all for bashing millen, but that list (taken from the Free Press who published it today for those that didn't see it) is bunk. a lot of those "better" picks were 10-20 even 30 picks later. I could do that with any team going back 8 years. There are lots of valid reasons to bash Millen, finding the one or two 2nd round gems everyone else also passed on in order to complain about who was picked earlier isn't one of them.

Saw this today too and thought it was ridiculous. If the writers at the freep are so smart, why don't they give us the 2008 list right now, or better yet back in April?

 

[Spartans Rule]

As for draft picks, I don't recall there being a lot of people on this board predicting that Charles Rogers was going to be a giant bust. Why should one pick define a guy's career? Didn't he pick Roy Williams too?

One pick doesn't define his career.Let's suppose Charles Rogers doesn't break his collarbone twice, doesn't get into drugs and is still in the NFL as an elite WR today. Does that mean the Lions would be 3-0 right now and trying to get back to the Super Bowl for the 3rd straight year? Of course not.Millen's had eight drafts. He not only picked a lot of early busts, but his lack of success in the later rounds is also striking. You can't really point to any one pick and say that's why he failed, but how many great picks did Millen make over the years? The closest thing he had to a late-round steal was either Terrence Holt or Alex Lewis, both good backup/bad starter type players.And beyond the draft, there's the poor cap management. When Millen actually gets his hands on a decent player, like Jeff Backus or Cory Redding, he becomes so enamored with them he drops the franchise tag and horribly overpays them. The Lions have been strapped in free agency by these absurd contracts.Detroit might not be the easiest place to win, but it's not impossible, either. Let's not forget that the Lions were 65-63 in the 8 years before Millen arrived.And even if Detroit is the worst organization in the NFL... there was hardly a ray of hope in the Millen era. Maybe he wasn't the whole problem, but he sure as hell wasn't the solution, either.

 

[tribecalledjeff]

The Lions had more wins in the 90s than every team except 3. It is more than possible to win here.

Millen has failed in every aspect of a GM's job - from hiring coaches and scouts to managing the cap to drafting to free agency. He deserves every ounce of "piling on" that he gets.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

I know it's popular around here to jump all over a guy when he's down, but objectively speaking did Matt Millen get a fair chance to succeed in Detroit? We can all agree that if this was a well-run organization, like the Titans for example, where Millen goes in with a good scouting department and all the staff he needs to get things done right, then his job is a lot easier. But Millen's dealing with the incompetency of the owner right on down through the waterboy, with nobody around him to help him win, and yet he gets blamed. He has a head coach walk out of practice and ride away on a motorcycle thinking that's a fresh way to motivate a team. He's got clueless fans chanting for his removal. Dude's got no friends anywhere, and he gets all the blame. As for draft picks, I don't recall there being a lot of people on this board predicting that Charles Rogers was going to be a giant bust. Why should one pick define a guy's career? Didn't he pick Roy Williams too? I just hope that this tenure in Detroit doesn't define him as a person and as a football man. Hopefully people can see that he had two strikes against him the way that Lane Kiffin does in Oakland.

It's also a popular thing to play devil's advocate when most people are on one side of an issue. I don't wish anything bad to happen to the guy, but to say it is time to go is an understatment. There are a lot of people in the Detroit area who have lost their jobs and were doing a lot better at it than him while making a lot less money.William Clay Ford would be the perfect owner for a football genius because someone could do anything they wanted. Ford doesn't really get involved, so if Millen were a great football guy, he would have had the green light to do just about anything he wanted. Unfortunately, he didn't know what to do with all that kind of rope except hang himself and the team. The Clueless fans in Detroit you mention are people like me, living in Detroit 37 years and I can say we're in as bad as shape as we've ever been right now.Charles Rogers was just one pick, why would you say should one pick deefine a guy's career? It makes me feel you don't know that much about this situation.I don't think his stay in Detroit defines him as a person, but it certainly does define him as a football man. Matt Millen will never have nearly the amount of power he's had in Detroit. I'd actually be embarrased if I were him to sit down in an interview with another professional team the next time a GM position opens up and look another owner in the eye and tell him he thinks he's the guy for the job.There are a lot of great football fans here in Detroit. My buddies have gone down for years every home game and tailgated, spent tons of money and have supported the Lions for years. When I think about it, it actually angers me that Ford was careless enough with such an important position to give it to a guy who's never even had expierence in management. He won a SB before as a defensemen.....big deal, Detroit gives him the keys to the team??I first saw the news on ESPN.com and as I think about it now, my first feeling about it was relief.....then anger that it took so long. The Detroit Lions are a better football team than they were yesterday just by getting rid of that guy, I firmly believe that. I have know idea who they're going to get to replace him, as far as I know it could be me so I've made sure my phone isn't off the hook in case Ford tries to call me. My 8th grade team was pretty good last year and if he gets word of that......who knows!In all seriousness, get someone in here as GM who is a leader, has experience in leading football teams and understands how to evaluate talent.

 

[PatrickT]

I listen to the NFL on Sirius. A lot. A lot of real football guys on there. I have not yet heard a single, solitary comment that would indicated the Millen didn't deserve to get fired, and deserved it a long time ago. That's not a personal attack, the man was simply unqualified for the job. They mentioned an interview with Mooch who gave a first hand account inside the Detroit front office. If anyone has link, please post it, can't look for it now.

By all, mean, defend Millen from personal attacks. His performance as an NFL GM is indefensible.

 

[Phurfur]

I know it's popular around here to jump all over a guy when he's down, but objectively speaking did Matt Millen get a fair chance to succeed in Detroit? We can all agree that if this was a well-run organization, like the Titans for example, where Millen goes in with a good scouting department and all the staff he needs to get things done right, then his job is a lot easier. But Millen's dealing with the incompetency of the owner right on down through the waterboy, with nobody around him to help him win, and yet he gets blamed. He has a head coach walk out of practice and ride away on a motorcycle thinking that's a fresh way to motivate a team. He's got clueless fans chanting for his removal. Dude's got no friends anywhere, and he gets all the blame. As for draft picks, I don't recall there being a lot of people on this board predicting that Charles Rogers was going to be a giant bust. Why should one pick define a guy's career? Didn't he pick Roy Williams too? I just hope that this tenure in Detroit doesn't define him as a person and as a football man. Hopefully people can see that he had two strikes against him the way that Lane Kiffin does in Oakland.

I like the way you shifted the blame rather than list his accomplishments. Wait, you did list his accomplishments.

 

[Eric]

No-one in the NFL gets a fair chance to succeed. The seasons ARE too short to make a sound analysis. Mistakes are made everywhere, and there is a TON of potential refinement in how organizations are run. Honestly I think most people have the potential to excel, and it comes down to putting them in a position to succeed. As the saying goes, "he can take hizuns and beat youins, and then take youins and beat hizuns".I'm sure Millen has strengths and if he was put in the right situation he can do well. But it didn't happen.

I agree, put him back in the booth.

Millen was one of the worst announcers in modern times, topped only by Bryant Gumbel. The guy just doesn't have the smarts necessary to succeed at any of the opportunities he's been given. He's made millions being an idiot, it's time to cut him loose and forget about him...forever.

 

[thatguythere]

I heard yesterday that the Lions were 8-40 on the road under Millen. I am thinking this could be an unbreakable record. Who could be that bad for that long and not get axed after a few years?

It's 8-50. I heard Millen made the team take a bus and stay in a Motel 6 cause Ford wouldn't put up the money.....

 

[swirvenirvin]

Wow.........

 

[Bri]

We don't often here of scouts getting hired or fired from NFL teams, but it happens all the time. There's clearly a poor evaluation of talent in Detroit. If Millen could blame it on some scouts, it'd be his backhanded problem as he could have fired them. There's no excuse.

He could blame it on some poor coaching. However, I believe he was involved in hiring them.

There isn't a player he drafted that someone didn't like. There were plenty of Charles Rogers fans and Mike Williams fans and...on and on. It's the collection of it all and poor player development too. Once drafted they're not automatic stars. The coaches still have to get them to elevate their game to the NFL level.

Cleveland was thrilled to get Shaun Rogers. The announcers said Shanny was raving about Boss Bailey's speed and play. That 90 yr old CB Shaun Springs has been so far from done in Washington. Bly in Denver too.

It's not just draft picks, it's not just free agents, it's like he had the opposite of the midas touch.

The phrase "you're only as good as your record" seems to fit here.

 

[MSULions]

Boss was given every chance in detroit - but he couldn't stay healthy. not one season. he always had talent...if it weren't for injuries he would have been a top 15 pick...he was a gamble but if he would have stayed healthy would have been a steal in the 2nd round.

Cleveland is already seeing Shaun Rogers will never live up to his potential. he could be the single most dominant d-lineman in the game if he cared. the problem is he doesn't care a bit. Browns fans are seeing it after only 3 games - he doesn't just take plays off, he takes games off.

 

[Raider Nation]

I heard Steve Mariucci interviewed two times today (he coached under Millen, of course), and he had an interesting point.

Millen took Joey Harrington #3 overall in his second draft. Millen really believed in the kid, and he knew he and Harrington would be forever linked, success or failure, and thus he wanted Joey to succeed in a big way. So much so that he practically TOLD Mooch to keep playing Joey even when things weren't going well. That was the start of the friction between GM and this particular coach. Mariucci told him that Harrington was better suited to be a backup, and they needed to bring in a free agent. Millen refused, citing his continued belief in Joey, as well as an unwillingness to put any more money into the QB position.

Millen's stubborness/patience with Harrington is also the reason for taking WRs in the 1st round three years in a row. He SO wanted to be vindicated for picking Harrington at 1.03, that he compromised future drafts trying to prove he was right about Joey. I guess his thinking was that with more weapons, Harrington would magically transform himself into a capable NFL QB. After taking Joey in '02, he takes Rogers in the 1st in '03, Roy Williams in the 1st in '04 and Mike Williams in the 1st in '05, all while ignoring glaring needs on defense.

 

[jabarony]

Is this a serious thread? 31-84

Draft...

Clinton Portis.........Kalimba Edwards

Bob Sanders...........Teddy Lehman

Sean Merriman........Mike Williams

Dwight Freeny........Joey Harrington

Andre Johnson.........Charles Rogers

Brian Westbrook.......Andre Goodman

Lofa Tatupu.............Shaun Cody

Osi Umenyiora..............Boss Bailey

Marcus McNeil..............Daniel Bullocks

Nate Clements..............Jeff Backus

i'm all for bashing millen, but that list (taken from the Free Press who published it today for those that didn't see it) is bunk. a lot of those "better" picks were 10-20 even 30 picks later. I could do that with any team going back 8 years. There are lots of valid reasons to bash Millen, finding the one or two 2nd round gems everyone else also passed on in order to complain about who was picked earlier isn't one of them.

just as an illustration of my point....let's take Portis v. Kalimba...here's the second round that year:33 Jabar Gaffney WR Florida Houston Texans

34 DeShaun Foster RB UCLA Carolina Panthers

35 Kalimba Edwards DE South Carolina Detroit Lions

36 Josh Reed WR Louisiana State Buffalo Bills

37 Andre Gurode G Colorado Dallas Cowboys

38 Raonall Smith LB Washington State Minnesota Vikings

39 Toniu Fonoti G Nebraska San Diego Chargers

40 Mike Pearson T Florida Jacksonville Jaguars

41 Lamont Thompson DB Washington State Cincinnati Bengals

42 Larry Tripplett DT Washington Indianapolis Colts

43 Eddie Freeman DT Alabama-Birmingham Kansas City Chiefs

44 LeCharles Bentley G Ohio State New Orleans Saints

45 Tank Williams SS Stanford Tennessee Titans

46 Tim Carter WR Auburn New York Giants

47 Andre Davis WR Virginia Tech Cleveland Browns

48 Reche Caldwell WR Florida San Diego Chargers

49 Levar Fisher LB North Carolina State Arizona Cardinals

50 Chester Pitts T San Diego State Houston Texans

51 Clinton Portis RB Miami (Fla.) Denver Broncos

52 Anthony Weaver DE Notre Dame Baltimore Ravens

53 Langston Walker T California Oakland Raiders

54 Maurice Morris RB Oregon Seattle Seahawks

55 Doug Jolley TE Brigham Young Oakland Raiders

56 Ladell Betts RB Iowa Washington Redskins

57 Jon McGraw DB Kansas State New York Jets

58 Michael M. Lewis SS Colorado Philadelphia Eagles

59 Sheldon Brown CB South Carolina Philadelphia Eagles

60 Anton Palepoi DE Nevada-Las Vegas Seattle Seahawks

61 Ryan Denney DE Brigham Young Buffalo Bills

62 Antwaan Randle El WR Indiana Pittsburgh Steelers

63 Antonio Bryant WR Pittsburgh Dallas Cowboys

64 Travis Fisher CB Central Florida St. Louis Rams

65 Deion Branch WR Louisville New England Patriots

15 other teams took other players too...none of them as good as portis. you can do this with each one of those examples. Joey Blue Skies was taken 3rd, Freeney 11th - what about picks 4-10? Did they screw up too? That year the split was 50/50 between Jammer and Harrington. Jammer hasn't exactly lit the world on fire...but NO ONE would have said take a DE from Syracuse at #3...and he would have been skewered for doing so.

Like i said, there are a million reasons for criticizing Millen...but that list is stupid.

Good point on a lot of the picks (Freeney etc. - that's just the paper's picks) but Portis was being shouted from the rooftops on draft day, and every day since, because they needed a RB. No one was complaining they didn't take Josh Reed because they were already well stocked. p.s. I hate Matt Millen with every fiber of my being. I hated him when he was a crappy Madden-clone in the Fox booth. I nearly had a stroke when they announced his hiring.

I'm back to being a fan again instead of rooting for 0-16 every year....what'd I miss?

 

[jabarony]

We don't often here of scouts getting hired or fired from NFL teams, but it happens all the time. There's clearly a poor evaluation of talent in Detroit. If Millen could blame it on some scouts, it'd be his backhanded problem as he could have fired them. There's no excuse.He could blame it on some poor coaching. However, I believe he was involved in hiring them.There isn't a player he drafted that someone didn't like. There were plenty of Charles Rogers fans and Mike Williams fans and...on and on. It's the collection of it all and poor player development too. Once drafted they're not automatic stars. The coaches still have to get them to elevate their game to the NFL level.Cleveland was thrilled to get Shaun Rogers. The announcers said Shanny was raving about Boss Bailey's speed and play. That 90 yr old CB Shaun Springs has been so far from done in Washington. Bly in Denver too.It's not just draft picks, it's not just free agents, it's like he had the opposite of the midas touch.The phrase "you're only as good as your record" seems to fit here.

The problem here is that the Lions had a scouting dept. in place when Millen took over that he immediately got rid of. So it is ALL on him.Charles Rogers was a lame pick, and a ploy to get a quick buzz (no pun intended).. Andre Johnson was the smart pick for anyone who had a brain.

 

[jabarony]

As for draft picks, I don't recall there being a lot of people on this board predicting that Charles Rogers was going to be a giant bust. Why should one pick define a guy's career? Didn't he pick Roy Williams too?

One pick doesn't define his career.Let's suppose Charles Rogers doesn't break his collarbone twice, doesn't get into drugs and is still in the NFL as an elite WR today. Does that mean the Lions would be 3-0 right now and trying to get back to the Super Bowl for the 3rd straight year? Of course not.Millen's had eight drafts. He not only picked a lot of early busts, but his lack of success in the later rounds is also striking. You can't really point to any one pick and say that's why he failed, but how many great picks did Millen make over the years? The closest thing he had to a late-round steal was either Terrence Holt or Alex Lewis, both good backup/bad starter type players.And beyond the draft, there's the poor cap management. When Millen actually gets his hands on a decent player, like Jeff Backus or Cory Redding, he becomes so enamored with them he drops the franchise tag and horribly overpays them. The Lions have been strapped in free agency by these absurd contracts.Detroit might not be the easiest place to win, but it's not impossible, either. Let's not forget that the Lions were 65-63 in the 8 years before Millen arrived.And even if Detroit is the worst organization in the NFL... there was hardly a ray of hope in the Millen era. Maybe he wasn't the whole problem, but he sure as hell wasn't the solution, either.

Too bad he didn't become enamored with Jeff Hartings and pay him an extra 100k to keep him. Nope - too arrogant. It was Millen's way or the highway.

 

[Ballstein]

I heard yesterday that the Lions were 8-40 on the road under Millen. I am thinking this could be an unbreakable record. Who could be that bad for that long and not get axed after a few years?

It's 8-50. I heard Millen made the team take a bus and stay in a Motel 6 cause Ford wouldn't put up the money.....

Good for him, maybe if they played like pros, they would be treated like pros. The nerve huh? A PRO football player having to live in conditions like that? the nerve of millen

 

[Bri]

We don't often here of scouts getting hired or fired from NFL teams, but it happens all the time. There's clearly a poor evaluation of talent in Detroit. If Millen could blame it on some scouts, it'd be his backhanded problem as he could have fired them. There's no excuse.He could blame it on some poor coaching. However, I believe he was involved in hiring them.There isn't a player he drafted that someone didn't like. There were plenty of Charles Rogers fans and Mike Williams fans and...on and on. It's the collection of it all and poor player development too. Once drafted they're not automatic stars. The coaches still have to get them to elevate their game to the NFL level.Cleveland was thrilled to get Shaun Rogers. The announcers said Shanny was raving about Boss Bailey's speed and play. That 90 yr old CB Shaun Springs has been so far from done in Washington. Bly in Denver too.It's not just draft picks, it's not just free agents, it's like he had the opposite of the midas touch.The phrase "you're only as good as your record" seems to fit here.

The problem here is that the Lions had a scouting dept. in place when Millen took over that he immediately got rid of. So it is ALL on him.Charles Rogers was a lame pick, and a ploy to get a quick buzz (no pun intended).. Andre Johnson was the smart pick for anyone who had a brain.

we agree