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Did The Colts Win the Game or Did The Fins Lose it (1 Viewer)

SportsMumboJumbo

Footballguy
That was one of the craziest games of the season. Maybe one of the craziest games in MNF history, stats wise. I have never seen a team so dominant lose the game. In terms of offensive possesion the Fins were on the field basically the entire game, controlling the clock, and running at will against the colts.

But the Fins obviously did not hold on as their defense could not stop Manning when it counted the most and then the offense displayed one of the worst clock management two minute drill scenarios. And of course Ginn drops the TD.

Was this more of the Colts winning or the Fins losing this game

 
The Colts won it. They converted their drives into more touchdowns than the Dolphins did, which is why they won. I never got the sense all night that the Miami defense could stop the Indy offense. Controlling the ball for that long doesn't you a lot of good if you are kicking FGs and giving up big plays on defense.

 
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More often than not you try to beat Peyton by keeping him on the bench. Problem is, Peyton doesn't need a 10 minute drive to lead his team to score. The wildcat is cool and all, but it isn't going to be enough to win them a super bowl without a solid defense to keep the other team in check.

 
A little of both (the FInns defense LOST it) and the Colts offense scored when they had the chance, but they also had a good helping hand from the refs at the end of the first half and that might have been the difference.

 
Peyton Manning won the game. The bulk of the Dolphins played well enough to win. The stiff or stiffs on Dallas Clark, whoever is responsible for that excrement-filled two minute drill, and Ted Ginn lost that game.

I don't slight the Colts. They won. They've got big problems that were exposed tonight just like the Dolphins do.

 
It's very rare for a team to really "lose" a game without crediting the other team for winning. The Rosenfels "propeller" game in Houston comes close, though. Wasn't that also Indy?

Credit Manning for doing a lot with the ball the few times he had it. Colts won it.

 
A little of both (the FInns defense LOST it) and the Colts offense scored when they had the chance, but they also had a good helping hand from the refs at the end of the first half and that might have been the difference.
come on, give it up, no one else thinks it was an INT . . .
 
Is there any chance Miami wins a game before Week 10 against the Buccaneers?

'Cause apart from Week 4 at home against the Bills (who will have both Jackson & Lynch available), I'm not seeing one.

 
the key sequence was the last minute of the 1st half . . . once Indy figured that Miami would kick a FG, they called a timeout . . . Manning masterfully takes the team downfield to pick up three . . . helped set up the second half fireworks . . .

 
The Dolphins have a good shot at 2-3 and an outside shot at 3-2 going into the bye. I don't see the Chargers putting it together well enough to beat the Dolphins, as banged up as they will still be.

 
A little of both (the FInns defense LOST it) and the Colts offense scored when they had the chance, but they also had a good helping hand from the refs at the end of the first half and that might have been the difference.
come on, give it up, no one else thinks it was an INT . . .
Really? No one? I don't know anyone who isn't a Colts fan who thinks it is. I am not a fan of either team and I have never seen a cleaner INT.
 
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A little of both (the FInns defense LOST it) and the Colts offense scored when they had the chance, but they also had a good helping hand from the refs at the end of the first half and that might have been the difference.
come on, give it up, no one else thinks it was an INT . . .
Really? No one? I don't know anyone who isn't a Colts fan who thinks it is. I am not a fan of either team and I have never seen a cleaner INT.
If you've never seen a cleaner INT I guess you missed that one at the end of the game on the "hail mary".
 
A little of both (the FInns defense LOST it) and the Colts offense scored when they had the chance, but they also had a good helping hand from the refs at the end of the first half and that might have been the difference.
come on, give it up, no one else thinks it was an INT . . .
Really? No one? I don't know anyone who isn't a Colts fan who thinks it is. I am not a fan of either team and I have never seen a cleaner INT.
has anyone on this thread besides YOU claimed that it was an INT???
 
This was an extreme example of what a lot of Colts games have looked like since 2006. Defense on the field a bunch, offense has to make do with few opportunities - with little help from the special teams.

 
A little of both (the FInns defense LOST it) and the Colts offense scored when they had the chance, but they also had a good helping hand from the refs at the end of the first half and that might have been the difference.
come on, give it up, no one else thinks it was an INT . . .
Really? No one? I don't know anyone who isn't a Colts fan who thinks it is. I am not a fan of either team and I have never seen a cleaner INT.
has anyone on this thread besides YOU claimed that it was an INT???
az's conviction on this one is pretty incredible (or this is the first near INT he has ever seen). No way was that an INT. Not even close.I would think only the most extreme Dolphin fans would even begin to argue that as an INT.
 
The Dolphins have a good shot at 2-3 and an outside shot at 3-2 going into the bye. I don't see the Chargers putting it together well enough to beat the Dolphins, as banged up as they will still be.
Wow! I don't know about that. I'm leaning in Lascelle's direction. I believe Week 4 vs. Buffalo is the only game the Dolphins will be favored in until Week 10. Naturally, upsets happen each week, but it's hard to see the Dolphins winning more than two of the following against these likely playoff teams:at Chargers (wk3)JETS (wk5)SAINTS (wk7)at Jets (wk8)at Patriots (wk9)And you can't just give the week 4 game against the Bills to the Dolphins, either. Despite their great effort last year, this is still a team just two years removed from going an entire season without winning a game in regulation. The average of the last two seasons, 6-10, is staring Miami right in the face. Sorry.
 
I don't see the Chargers as any serious threat. It might be that I'm biased, but it's less a pro-Dolphins bias than an anti-Norv one. I think the Bills game is winnable, and a Jets game at home is a potential let down game for them after what I recall is a pretty tough first month for them.

 
Worst time management in an endgame situation EVER. :jawdrop:
I am seeing that alot in the NFL even in college. Teams think they have way more time then they actually have and then they end up burning through their time outs on panic plays. Then it becomes a hail mary type of situation, I expected a little more from a Parcells/Pennington team, two very smart football minds.
 
Worst time management in an endgame situation EVER. :toilet:
I am seeing that alot in the NFL even in college. Teams think they have way more time then they actually have and then they end up burning through their time outs on panic plays. Then it becomes a hail mary type of situation, I expected a little more from a Parcells/Pennington team, two very smart football minds.
I am just speculating, but I am confident that all the time they spend on the variations of the wildcat detract from the amount of time available to work on the two minute drill . . . seriously, if that was a high school team I would have still panned their clock management - it was THAT bad . . .
 
I don't see the Chargers as any serious threat. It might be that I'm biased, but it's less a pro-Dolphins bias than an anti-Norv one. I think the Bills game is winnable, and a Jets game at home is a potential let down game for them after what I recall is a pretty tough first month for them.
Fair enough. I agree that the Jets home game is eminently winnable for the Dolphins. I know Miami beat San Diego last year, but I have the feeling that many things the Dolphins were able to accomplish last year are going to be more difficult this year. Miami was 7-2 in one score games last year playing both West Divisions -- widely considered the weakest divisions in the league -- and six of those seven wins were against the Western teams (everyone except Denver and Arizona). Tougher competition and the law of averages both work against Miami this season.
 
I don't see the Chargers as any serious threat. It might be that I'm biased, but it's less a pro-Dolphins bias than an anti-Norv one. I think the Bills game is winnable, and a Jets game at home is a potential let down game for them after what I recall is a pretty tough first month for them.
I think you're ignoring a number of key factors such as what this loss will do to the Dolphins psyche.That Rivers has the green-light to go all pass happy again with LT on the shelf (and you saw how Miami's secondary failed to stop the Colts passing game).That Miami is working on a short week.That the Chargers are at home.That San Diego is royally pissed after letting the Ravens edge out a win in their home opener.Plus, they'll consider it a must-win with the Broncos up 2-0 in their division and facing the Raiders.If anything, San Diego looks like a sure Eliminator pick next week.
 
Worst time management in an endgame situation EVER. :toilet:
I am seeing that alot in the NFL even in college. Teams think they have way more time then they actually have and then they end up burning through their time outs on panic plays. Then it becomes a hail mary type of situation, I expected a little more from a Parcells/Pennington team, two very smart football minds.
I am just speculating, but I am confident that all the time they spend on the variations of the wildcat detract from the amount of time available to work on the two minute drill . . . seriously, if that was a high school team I would have still panned their clock management - it was THAT bad . . .
There was absolutly no excuse for it. How does Pennington let 30 seconds go off the clock and then burn a TO with just over 2 min to go, 70 yards away from the score? Very strange play.
 
A little of both (the FInns defense LOST it) and the Colts offense scored when they had the chance, but they also had a good helping hand from the refs at the end of the first half and that might have been the difference.
come on, give it up, no one else thinks it was an INT . . .
Really? No one? I don't know anyone who isn't a Colts fan who thinks it is. I am not a fan of either team and I have never seen a cleaner INT.
has anyone on this thread besides YOU claimed that it was an INT???
I don't care who has or who hasn't--it was a horrible call and it played a big role in determining the game. Again, I am not a Miami fan--just a knowledgable fan who has been watching INTs for 35 years.
 
A little of both (the FInns defense LOST it) and the Colts offense scored when they had the chance, but they also had a good helping hand from the refs at the end of the first half and that might have been the difference.
come on, give it up, no one else thinks it was an INT . . .
Really? No one? I don't know anyone who isn't a Colts fan who thinks it is. I am not a fan of either team and I have never seen a cleaner INT.
has anyone on this thread besides YOU claimed that it was an INT???
az's conviction on this one is pretty incredible (or this is the first near INT he has ever seen). No way was that an INT. Not even close.I would think only the most extreme Dolphin fans would even begin to argue that as an INT.
Nope. Not a Finns fan--a Vikings fan who remembers the Finns beating us in the SB. What exactly was lacking in that INT?
 
A little of both (the FInns defense LOST it) and the Colts offense scored when they had the chance, but they also had a good helping hand from the refs at the end of the first half and that might have been the difference.
come on, give it up, no one else thinks it was an INT . . .
Really? No one? I don't know anyone who isn't a Colts fan who thinks it is. I am not a fan of either team and I have never seen a cleaner INT.
has anyone on this thread besides YOU claimed that it was an INT???
I don't care who has or who hasn't--it was a horrible call and it played a big role in determining the game. Again, I am not a Miami fan--just a knowledgable fan who has been watching INTs for 35 years.
if you were on a jury, then you'd be the lone guy forcing a mistrial . . . good luck to you. . .
 
I might sound like the bad fan here, but it may be for the best if you guys are right and I'm wrong. Pennington is clearly not the future of the team, and this has the looks of the classic setback season for the reasons documented. More early losses likely means Henne starts sooner. I'll be pulling for the Dolphins each week, of course.

 
if you were on a jury, then you'd be the lone guy forcing a mistrial . . . good luck to you. . .
I DO think for myself and don't listen to what I am told. I wish I could post the play here so you all could see for yourselves. At the time no one thought the play was important but it turned out to be critical.
 
I'm with you on the INT to this point:

If you show that play to the average guy who has no concern about what the NFL rules are, that's a pick. Who cares that the ball moves after he hits the ground?

To those who know the rule, the ball movement even after initial impact is a giant red flag. It's not a reception or a pick by the rule the NFL plays by. I disagree with these idiotic rules that go against common perception, but that doesn't change the rule.

 
A little of both (the FInns defense LOST it) and the Colts offense scored when they had the chance, but they also had a good helping hand from the refs at the end of the first half and that might have been the difference.
come on, give it up, no one else thinks it was an INT . . .
Really? No one? I don't know anyone who isn't a Colts fan who thinks it is. I am not a fan of either team and I have never seen a cleaner INT.
come on. The rules are the same for a receiver. Must show complete control through the play on the ground - period. Easy call. No INT.
 
A little of both (the FInns defense LOST it) and the Colts offense scored when they had the chance, but they also had a good helping hand from the refs at the end of the first half and that might have been the difference.
come on, give it up, no one else thinks it was an INT . . .
Really? No one? I don't know anyone who isn't a Colts fan who thinks it is. I am not a fan of either team and I have never seen a cleaner INT.
come on. The rules are the same for a receiver. Must show complete control through the play on the ground - period. Easy call. No INT.
The ground can't cause the fumble. He has the ball in his possession and the ball pops out when he hits the ground. Easy call. Completion.You can see the replay at 1:14 of this video--he clearly has the ball until the ball contacts the ground. It isn't moving around. He has it firm.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009092100/2...phins#tab:watch

Also consider the rule on field was INT and you need incontroversial evidence to overrule. This is far from incontroversial--because you can argue about whether he has possession or not. The fumble does not prove that he lacked possession.

 
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A little of both (the FInns defense LOST it) and the Colts offense scored when they had the chance, but they also had a good helping hand from the refs at the end of the first half and that might have been the difference.
come on, give it up, no one else thinks it was an INT . . .
Really? No one? I don't know anyone who isn't a Colts fan who thinks it is. I am not a fan of either team and I have never seen a cleaner INT.
come on. The rules are the same for a receiver. Must show complete control through the play on the ground - period. Easy call. No INT.
From what I saw, this was more clearly an incompletion than the Santonio Holmes catch in last year's AFC championship game. Both were ruled correctly. Like others, I think it's a rule that defies common sense and I would like to see it changed, but until an actual change is made, the officials have to apply the rule appropriately. They did.
 
A little of both (the FInns defense LOST it) and the Colts offense scored when they had the chance, but they also had a good helping hand from the refs at the end of the first half and that might have been the difference.
come on, give it up, no one else thinks it was an INT . . .
Really? No one? I don't know anyone who isn't a Colts fan who thinks it is. I am not a fan of either team and I have never seen a cleaner INT.
come on. The rules are the same for a receiver. Must show complete control through the play on the ground - period. Easy call. No INT.
The ground can't cause the fumble. He has the ball in his possession and the ball pops out when he hits the ground. Easy call. Completion.You can see the replay at 1:14 of this video--he clearly has the ball until the ball contacts the ground. It isn't moving around. He has it firm.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009092100/2...phins#tab:watch
Listen to what you said. "The ground can't cause [a] fumble." Ahhh, but the ground can and does cause incompletions. Possession rules on a pass reception are not the same as rules for fumbles (in which case possession is already achieved).
 
Listen to what you said. "The ground can't cause [a] fumble." Ahhh, but the ground can and does cause incompletions. Possession rules on a pass reception are not the same as rules for fumbles (in which case possession is already achieved).
Also, a fumble cannot happen when possession never occurred according to the rules.
 
Listen to what you said. "The ground can't cause [a] fumble." Ahhh, but the ground can and does cause incompletions. Possession rules on a pass reception are not the same as rules for fumbles (in which case possession is already achieved).
Also, a fumble cannot happen when possession never occurred according to the rules.
Oh, I also forgot to mention that the ground CAN cause a fumble, provided the ball carrier was not touched by a defender (i.e., "down by contact") as the ball carrier headed to the ground.
 
A little of both (the FInns defense LOST it) and the Colts offense scored when they had the chance, but they also had a good helping hand from the refs at the end of the first half and that might have been the difference.
come on, give it up, no one else thinks it was an INT . . .
Really? No one? I don't know anyone who isn't a Colts fan who thinks it is. I am not a fan of either team and I have never seen a cleaner INT.
come on. The rules are the same for a receiver. Must show complete control through the play on the ground - period. Easy call. No INT.
The ground can't cause the fumble. He has the ball in his possession and the ball pops out when he hits the ground. Easy call. Completion.You can see the replay at 1:14 of this video--he clearly has the ball until the ball contacts the ground. It isn't moving around. He has it firm.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009092100/2...phins#tab:watch
Great play by Wayne to prevent the INT. He knocked it loose on the way down with his arm.
 
The only reason the Time of Possession was so lopsided is that the Colts had scoring drives of 12, 43, and 32 seconds. And 4:07 and 3:17 for the "long" ones. To say that Miami was "dominant" isn't accurate, if a high school team went out one Friday night and only played 11 men on offense, then sat down the team when they were on defense, would they also be "dominant"? The offense took its time against a bending D, but the D did nothing to stop the Colts.

 
A little of both (the FInns defense LOST it) and the Colts offense scored when they had the chance, but they also had a good helping hand from the refs at the end of the first half and that might have been the difference.
come on, give it up, no one else thinks it was an INT . . .
Really? No one? I don't know anyone who isn't a Colts fan who thinks it is. I am not a fan of either team and I have never seen a cleaner INT.
come on. The rules are the same for a receiver. Must show complete control through the play on the ground - period. Easy call. No INT.
The ground can't cause the fumble. He has the ball in his possession and the ball pops out when he hits the ground. Easy call. Completion.You can see the replay at 1:14 of this video--he clearly has the ball until the ball contacts the ground. It isn't moving around. He has it firm.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009092100/2...phins#tab:watch

Also consider the rule on field was INT and you need incontroversial evidence to overrule. This is far from incontroversial--because you can argue about whether he has possession or not. The fumble does not prove that he lacked possession.
Give it up, it was no INT. And also, stop saying "The ground can't cause the fumble", there's no such rule. There's a rulebook pinned at the top of the forum, flip through it. There's nothing about "the ground can't cause the fumble"... it's said a lot by sportscasters as an aid, but it's often misinterpreted. What it means is, that, if a player with possession hits the ground after contact with a defender, the play is over since he's down by contact. If he ball comes out as he hits the ground, it doesn't matter, since he's down as soon as any part of his body, other than his feet or hands, touches the ground.

But the key is the player must have possession before contact with the ground. On a catch, if falling, possession is defined as control through the act of the fall and after contact with the ground.

Hence, by rule, since he didn't maintain control through the fall and after making contact, no catch.

 
I did see a far more bizarre game in Week 14 of 2002.

The Steelers had a 422-47 advantage in total yardage and 24-3 advantage in first downs while keeping possession for nearly 40 minutes against the Texans.

And they lost 24-6. Three defensive TDs.

 
The Colts won and the Dolphins lost, so I'm going with C) All of the Above.
:lmao:
Listen to what you said. "The ground can't cause [a] fumble." Ahhh, but the ground can and does cause incompletions. Possession rules on a pass reception are not the same as rules for fumbles (in which case possession is already achieved).
Also, a fumble cannot happen when possession never occurred according to the rules.
Oh, I also forgot to mention that the ground CAN cause a fumble, provided the ball carrier was not touched by a defender (i.e., "down by contact") as the ball carrier headed to the ground.
:lmao: There's no rule that says the ground can't cause a fumble, it's just a dramatically oversimplified "rule of thumb" spouted off by lazy announcers. It's like how 6th grade teachers always say that you can't use double negatives, even though there's nothing grammatically wrong with it. It's not as if they do it for no good reason (see what I did there? :lmao: ); it's a lot easier to come up with a "better safe than sorry" (incorrect) rule of thumb than it is to actually teach the intricacies of a sometimes difficult to grasp concept.There is a rule that says the second a player who has possession of the ball touches the ground as the result of contact by a player on the opposing team, he is down by contact and the play is immediately over. 99% of the time, when a player goes to the ground it is the result of contact, which means the play ends before the fumble occurs. In the event where a player goes to the ground without any contact and fumbles on impact, that's actually a fumble. I remember a Tampa Bay game a few years back where I was really incensed because Mike Alstott clearly fumbled, but since it was caused by the ground it wasn't called (he leaped high over a defender who was diving at his ankles, easily cleared the defender, but landed on his back and the ball popped out, but the refs called him down by contact. If he hadn't dropped the ball, they never would have whistled that play dead).Anyway, the "ground cannot cause a fumble" idea is not at all contrary to the rule on the books that in order to establish possession a receiver must maintain possession all the way to the ground. In fact, the "maintain possession to the ground" rule just further prevents any scenario where the ground might cause a fumble, since if a player falls to the ground and the ball pops out, that's an incompletion rather than a fumble (since possession was never established because he didn't maintain control all the way down).
I did see a far more bizarre game in Week 14 of 2002.The Steelers had a 422-47 advantage in total yardage and 24-3 advantage in first downs while keeping possession for nearly 40 minutes against the Texans.And they lost 24-6. Three defensive TDs.
I was actually going to mention that game. Aaron Glenn had two 60+ yard INT returns for scores. Unbelievable game. That was a really weird year for Pittsburgh- they actually had the first tie in well over a decade, iirc, earlier in the season against Atlanta. Another good one was my personal favorite game of all time: a 33-22 game between the St. Louis Rams and the Baltimore Ravens, and the best example of why scoring defense isn't the best measure of a defense. Despite the 55 combined points, the game was a huge defensive struggle (a "defensive shootout", if you will). The Ravens held the Rams to 2 yards per carry, 4 yards per pass attempt, and 120 total yards. They also forced 4 turnovers. Despite that, they still gave up 33 points, because their offense turned the ball over 7 times and their special teams gave up a long punt return. There were two St. Louis touchdown "drives" to start the game that went something like 50 total yards for the both of them, Adam Archuletta returned a fumble for a score, and then Wilkins kicked 4 FGs in the 4th quarter. Midway through the 3rd quarter, Marshall Faulk had negative rushing yards... and two TDs. Really an awesome game, and the perfect example of the whole "field position is fluid" concept.
 
A little of both (the FInns defense LOST it) and the Colts offense scored when they had the chance, but they also had a good helping hand from the refs at the end of the first half and that might have been the difference.
come on, give it up, no one else thinks it was an INT . . .
Really? No one? I don't know anyone who isn't a Colts fan who thinks it is. I am not a fan of either team and I have never seen a cleaner INT.
come on. The rules are the same for a receiver. Must show complete control through the play on the ground - period. Easy call. No INT.
Winner. Just following the rule, even if it isn't the best rule.
 
I think the Dolphins lost it on their last two drives. They were way too conservative on the drive that resulted in their final FG and then the last drive was just clownish.

 
A little of both (the FInns defense LOST it) and the Colts offense scored when they had the chance, but they also had a good helping hand from the refs at the end of the first half and that might have been the difference.
come on, give it up, no one else thinks it was an INT . . .
Really? No one? I don't know anyone who isn't a Colts fan who thinks it is. I am not a fan of either team and I have never seen a cleaner INT.
come on. The rules are the same for a receiver. Must show complete control through the play on the ground - period. Easy call. No INT.
The ground can't cause the fumble. He has the ball in his possession and the ball pops out when he hits the ground. Easy call. Completion.You can see the replay at 1:14 of this video--he clearly has the ball until the ball contacts the ground. It isn't moving around. He has it firm.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009092100/2...phins#tab:watch

Also consider the rule on field was INT and you need incontroversial evidence to overrule. This is far from incontroversial--because you can argue about whether he has possession or not. The fumble does not prove that he lacked possession.
If you watch that video the announcers even tell you why that is not a catch. Turn up your volume.
 

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