Do depth charts really matter? (1 Viewer)

[kerntuber]

Maybe I just haven't paid attention to it before, but when did the coaches start throwing the player's depth ranking out the window and move to the "hot hand"? It would seem through all pre-season and practices, the coaches should have a pretty good idea of who is the better player. There have been numerous instances this year, and maybe in prior years, where the back-up gets injured and all of a sudden the third or fourth guy comes in, plays pretty well and now he has "earned" more playing time. Why wouldn't the coaches think that the player that was higher on the depth chart going in, but was injured, couldn't have given the same performance? Several examples come to mind in Tampa, Jax, Indy, Oakland. Maybe it is just a much more fluid environment and the coaches are just reacting to the current situation, but it seems that injuries are somewhat "punished" now-a-days, where in the past players would never lose their "position" on the roster for injuries. Is it too difficult to evaluate the players in practice and the only real look the coaches have is on the field during a live game? Any other thoughts?

 

[duaneok66]

Fluidity is one key - maybe a guy flashed promise in the offseason, but he failed to deliver during the fall . . .

A better example is that coaches truly dont know how a sub responds to the high pressure situation of an actual game - this also affects how things play out . . . some players are great practice players, but poor game players due to pressure - obviously you wont know this until the backup actually gets inserted into the game . . .

as a result, I think that depths charts hold little value . . .

 

[Drink G2]

Fluidity is one key - maybe a guy flashed promise in the offseason, but he failed to deliver during the fall . . .A better example is that coaches truly dont know how a sub responds to the high pressure situation of an actual game - this also affects how things play out . . . some players are great practice players, but poor game players due to pressure - obviously you wont know this until the backup actually gets inserted into the game . . .as a result, I think that depths charts hold little value . . .

This, and also you have to figure that even though its a depth chart of each position within that position there is other factors.For instance the #1 may get the majority of the touches on downs 1 and 2. But the #2 guy may be a 3rd down specialist, or a short yardage specialist. So when the #1 guy goes down, the #2 may not be as well suited for downs 1 and 2 as the #3 back may be. So while the #2 would see a slightly expanded role probably, the #3 guy may have a larger one than the #2.If that made sense...

 

[duaneok66]

Fluidity is one key - maybe a guy flashed promise in the offseason, but he failed to deliver during the fall . . .A better example is that coaches truly dont know how a sub responds to the high pressure situation of an actual game - this also affects how things play out . . . some players are great practice players, but poor game players due to pressure - obviously you wont know this until the backup actually gets inserted into the game . . .as a result, I think that depths charts hold little value . . .

This, and also you have to figure that even though its a depth chart of each position within that position there is other factors.For instance the #1 may get the majority of the touches on downs 1 and 2. But the #2 guy may be a 3rd down specialist, or a short yardage specialist. So when the #1 guy goes down, the #2 may not be as well suited for downs 1 and 2 as the #3 back may be. So while the #2 would see a slightly expanded role probably, the #3 guy may have a larger one than the #2.If that made sense...

great points . . .look at Mendenhall for an example - if he goes down, then Moore probably gets the work between the 20s and on passing down, while Redman probably does all the short yardage stuff and goal line work . . .its MUCH more complex than saying one guy is #2, and one guy is #3 - they have totally different skill sets . . .

 

[kerntuber]

I think both of you are making good points. I would have thought that the preseason games would have given the coaching staff a pretty good estimation of their skills and abilities. Of course they aren't playing against the first string in each of these games or against designed defenses or offenses, but in many situations I would think it could be more stressfull since they are playing for a spot on the final roster. I guess this might be a good exercise for me this weekend to go through each of the lineups and try to determine, if this player goes down, how would this change the team and who would benefit or move up to take over. In the past I had mostly relied on the depth chart to key in on a handcuff for my starters, but this further analysis would probably pay better dividends. Thanks for the thoughts.

 

[guncrib]

depth charts are only good for if a player goes down and you need to make a quick move on his replacement. That being said, there's no guarantee that the player you pick up will actually BE the replacement.

 

[Dismattle]

Entering Week Seven, Steelers RB Rashard Mendenhall(notes) was on pace to rack up nearly 50 percent more combined rushes and receptions than he did a season ago, and head coach Mike Tomlin has said giving Mendenhall less work is something the team would like to do. Any redistribution of work among the other backs primarily would affect Isaac Redman(notes) or Mewelde Moore(notes). The Steelers' fourth-string back, rookie Jonathan Dwyer(notes), hasn't been active for a game this season. The 250-pound Redman has the second-most carries on the team and generally has been dependable in short-yardage situations. Also, he has proven to be versatile, too, the way we hear it, showing he can lead-block and catch the ball, too. Of course, Mendenhall will remain the featured back, a role he has proven more than capable of handling. We're told Mendenhall has exuded greater confidence and leadership in this, his third NFL season.

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I truly believe Redman could start if Mendy is unable too. (grind out the Season, and have Moore healthy for the post season) I believe the interesting point is that Dwyer could be active. I like bigger backs but we still have no clue how Dwyer performs in a real NFL game. If Dwyer performed well, maybe let him grind the Season away, so that would be inactive #4 to active #1 or #2 (not officially starting RB)

I realize that Moore has taken over and probably would again without too much doubt, which is what makes the OP question the depth chart (valid). The same question could also be asked why the #3 back getting all the work, while the #2 does squat.

btw I know Jax has had injurys, R. Jennings (shoulder) but Karim also performed well, while he was out. I believe Indy is also dealing w injuries, while Tampa may just be searching for productivity. Bush had a wrist inj, now McFadden has a thight inj. I believe McFadden is back healthy...

Edit: It took me awhile to try an get this together to make any sense (I believe the post above mine nailed it)

 

[kerntuber]

I guess this is where the rubber meets the road. I would think the analysis of depth that you found for the Steelers from the coaching staff would not be readily available for most teams. Going further on Guncrib's post, being able to move quickly isn't always necessary (usually there is some type of waiver process) but sometimes being the first to hear the news and jumping on the computer gets you the roster move. What I like to do is be able to pick them up prior to the injuries, as the leagues are pretty deep. Also, if there are some underperformers where injuries are thought to be out there, such as in Jax, there may be some value to picking up a replacement that may produce something in several weeks. Hopefully some google sifting through coaching comments can provide enough information to get a little edge on the competition in creating a "fantasy depth chart". Thanks again for the contributions.

 

[duaneok66]

good thread . . .

another example to throw out is Jacob Tamme for the Colts - he hasnt seen the field all year, but did well in preseason . . .

Eldridge has played in 2TE sets for the Colts this year. However, he is the blocking TE for the colts, so few Colts fans assumed he'd step into Clark's role - Tamme can't block to save his life but he can fill some of the receiving void left by Clark . . .

so again, it's not as simple as saying who is TE2 or who is TE3 on that team . . .

 

[Drink G2]

And to add, its no lock Robinson won't fill Clark's void.

 

[duaneok66]

the Colts rarely use pure 4WR sets, but (depending on the health of the receivers) they could start now in Clark's absence (who split out wide alot anyway) . . .

that being said, a blocking TE that was just on the street last week (likely) won't be catching alot of passes . . .

 

[DepthCharts]

Having owned DepthCharts.com for 10 years or so (and not having set it up as a "business" yet), i would still like to think they have a little value.

Maybe I should start redirecting for footballguys????