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Do We Really Think India and China Will Stop Their Development So That The World Stops Climate Change? (1 Viewer)

moleculo said:
Africa and India are tougher nuts to crack, but if we had EU, US, and China all on board, things could happen.  Investments and the like.

We can't start the snowball if we can't work it ourselves.
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Fair enough point. The thread title isn't a lecture, it's a question, for sure. A loaded one, but if there are arguments to be made, by all means. This isn't so far-fetched of an argument to make.

 
Rich Conway said:
So you think leading the 21st century consists of continuing to encourage the use of 19th century technology rather than, I don't know, invest in and push the boundaries on new technology?
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This is funny coming from a liberal.  Those same liberals who want to keep pushing BILLIONS of dollars into the money-pit of choo-choo trains - also 19th century technology.

 
BladeRunner said:
That's not what this is really about, though.  It's about dismantling the USA as a world power.
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I don't really see it that way. This is an incredible opportunity for the US to be the world leader in green energy through the 21st century at least.

 
whoknew said:
I don't really see it that way. This is an incredible opportunity for the US to be the world leader in green energy through the 21st century at least.
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Obama gave away BILLIONS of dollars to his green energy donors and buddies - and almost every single one of them failed.  So, we tried that during his two terms.  What makes you think it's going to work now?  Green energy is boutique energy - it's not enough to sustain civilizations.  Only can supplement nuclear or coal at this point.

 
BladeRunner said:
Obama gave away BILLIONS of dollars to his green energy donors and buddies - and almost every single one of them failed.  So, we tried that during his two terms.  What makes you think it's going to work now?  Green energy is boutique energy - it's not enough to sustain civilizations.  Only can supplement nuclear or coal at this point.
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That's not true. It can support civilizations - even with the technology we use today. And think what we will use in the future if we concentrate on it.

ETA: Again - this is where the US should be to continue to dominate the economy going forward. We should be on the cutting edge of energy technology developing new methods of green energy while transitioning to a green economy.

 
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whoknew said:
That's not true. It can support civilizations - even with the technology we use today. And think what we will use in the future if we concentrate on it.

ETA: Again - this is where the US should be to continue to dominate the economy going forward. We should be on the cutting edge of energy technology developing new methods of green energy while transitioning to a green economy.
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Name one civilization or country that using all green energy as it's primary source of energy.  And it can't be an island nation with 50 people.  I'm talking millions and tens of millions of people, much less hundreds of millions and billions.

 
BladeRunner said:
Name one civilization or country that using all green energy as it's primary source of energy.  And it can't be an island nation with 50 people.  I'm talking millions and tens of millions of people, much less hundreds of millions and billions.
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Brazil has 80% renewable electric energy

Not an island, and has 211 million people.

 
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timschochet said:
I’ll stand by maybe. As always we are the key. We need to lead the world by example. But more importantly, we need to develop new technologies that will make what India and China are doing out of date. 
 

The arguments against action to combat climate change have shifted from “it doesn’t exist” to “why bother? We can’t change anything.”  I don’t find this response any more compelling than the last one. 
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Biden will just give them to Xi.

And Biden follows Xi.   Not the other way around.

 
Stealthycat said:
Global pollution from the United States 15%

We could get to 100% pollution free and the other countries on the earth would destroy it
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So don’t innovate? Participate in the destruction, so long as you get your slice of the ever eroding pie?

The future is in renewable energy.  Which is  still in its infancy, relatively speaking.  Why people don’t want their country to participate in that new frontier, which happens to be in humanity’s interest is beyond me.  

My guess is they don’t fully grasp the impact a 2 degree rise in temp over 100 year span will have on life as we know it.  Or they are too selfish to care.  

 
zoonation said:
So don’t innovate? Participate in the destruction, so long as you get your slice of the ever eroding pie?

The future is in renewable energy.  Which is  still in its infancy, relatively speaking.  Why people don’t want their country to participate in that new frontier, which happens to be in humanity’s interest is beyond me.  

My guess is they don’t fully grasp the impact a 2 degree rise in temp over 100 year span will have on life as we know it.  Or they are too selfish to care.  
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Sure innovate - but this faux belief that we need to get green to save the planet is a lie. WE cannot save the planet - all countries combined is the problem, all countries combined is also the solution

I fully grasp degree's .... its what turned a lush planet into ice ages and back again over the history of this planet and BTW 100 years in the planets history is like taking a second out of your day and using that second as a gauge - we have to have a LOT more information before making knee jerk reactions. Now, I'm 100% behind being clean and better ......... but freak out doesn't work for me, never has

 
zoonation said:
So don’t innovate? Participate in the destruction, so long as you get your slice of the ever eroding pie?

The future is in renewable energy.  Which is  still in its infancy, relatively speaking.  Why people don’t want their country to participate in that new frontier, which happens to be in humanity’s interest is beyond me.  

My guess is they don’t fully grasp the impact a 2 degree rise in temp over 100 year span will have on life as we know it.  Or they are too selfish to care.  
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Yeah well why do people eat poorly when ALL the evidence suggests it's bad. Why do people smoke?  Why do people do a million things that aren't good.

They don't care.   People are generally only interested in themselves.  Period. It's human nature.      

 
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the moops said:
Sometimes I wonder if you even read the posts you are replying to
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the way it was worded looked like we were second place behind the twice as pollution producer India - I see the the post just neglected to mention China double the USA's CO2 production 

thanks for pointing that out - I did misread 

 
Stealthycat said:
the way it was worded looked like we were second place behind the twice as pollution producer India - I see the the post just neglected to mention China double the USA's CO2 production 

thanks for pointing that out - I did misread 
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China is the worst by far, no doubt.  But this narrative that “why should we do anything, when China and India won’t” seems misguided when America is (by far) the second biggest polluter.   If anything, other countries are likely saying “why should we do anything if America won’t.”

 
whoknew said:
That's not true. It can support civilizations - even with the technology we use today. And think what we will use in the future if we concentrate on it.

ETA: Again - this is where the US should be to continue to dominate the economy going forward. We should be on the cutting edge of energy technology developing new methods of green energy while transitioning to a green economy.
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Only alternative  energy  that can produce  enough energy is nuclear 

 
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