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Do you think people that can't afford healthcare deserve to die? (1 Viewer)

I think this is possibly the worst false equivalency I have seen on this forum, and considering what has been posted in the USA Shootings thread recently, that is saying something.
Actually, having health insurance in this country just grants you payments for a bunch of profitable treatments of symptoms, and has little to do with healing people. Life expectancy is on the way down, and Americans spend way more for their health services than other countries for no measurable overall wellness because the system is so bloated and corrupt. This little political ploy to force insurance on everyone is just an emotional pitch to funnel more money into the pyramid scheme.

 
Sidebar maybe only of interest to FBG types: in the comments following ESPN's recent story about football organizations finding it increasingly difficult to obtain insurance coverage, a reader remarked that single payer would go a long way to improving the sport's chances of long term survival.

I wonder if that's true or if instead the government would take a more intrusive regulatory approach towards high risk activities.

 
I support helping people and don't think they should die

However, I'm starting to wonder, and would like you're opinion, can we maybe reach a social contract or a practical one, where if you're to accept help in these situations, you have a minimal obligation to control whatever controllable factors there are in regard to your own health?   Like people shouldn't smoke or eat junk food just to pick out too, maybe expand it to include drinking.  I feel bad for these people but maybe I'd delineate or deprioritize them in contrast to people who had no say in whatever health challenge befell them?

 
What if the cost of health care is a percentage of your income? And different procedures/treatments charge a different percentage based on costs and complexities? 

 
I support helping people and don't think they should die

However, I'm starting to wonder, and would like you're opinion, can we maybe reach a social contract or a practical one, where if you're to accept help in these situations, you have a minimal obligation to control whatever controllable factors there are in regard to your own health?   Like people shouldn't smoke or eat junk food just to pick out too, maybe expand it to include drinking.  I feel bad for these people but maybe I'd delineate or deprioritize them in contrast to people who had no say in whatever health challenge befell them?
There are a lot of behavior changing strategies promoting good health outcomes that aren't punitive. If the full pool is 300M people (Medicare for All), those efforts can be targeted by age, by disease condition, etc. to help maximize healthy outcomes. And what we do is bring the rest along, without penalty or judgement, and try to minimize that pool through effective strategies.

 
There are a lot of behavior changing strategies promoting good health outcomes that aren't punitive. If the full pool is 300M people (Medicare for All), those efforts can be targeted by age, by disease condition, etc. to help maximize healthy outcomes. And what we do is bring the rest along, without penalty or judgement, and try to minimize that pool through effective strategies.
I’m sure and I’m all for it.  But... the broader question is, do you have a responsibility to your own health if you expect help? 

 
deserve?

we are all going to die - younger people don't realize that maybe as much as older people do

if you don't want healthcare that's your choice, but when death starts to come, own that choice

 
I’m sure and I’m all for it.  But... the broader question is, do you have a responsibility to your own health if you expect help? 
Understood. I think the answer may be that societal norms will likely apply pressure to those who are not taking responsibility/accountability and behaviors will change accordingly. The closest analogy I can think of is cigarette smoking. Societal norms have adapted over the decades, people used to smoke on airplanes.

 
deserve?

we are all going to die - younger people don't realize that maybe as much as older people do

if you don't want healthcare that's your choice, but when death starts to come, own that choice
The problem pre-Obamacare was people wanting healthcare but were denied because of pre-existing conditions. And in order to make Obamacare work everyone must be required to carry health insurance, as many young people will make the choice not to, but if they require things like emergency room treatment, etc., the rest of us will end up paying for it anyway.

 
The problem pre-Obamacare was people wanting healthcare but were denied because of pre-existing conditions. And in order to make Obamacare work everyone must be required to carry health insurance, as many young people will make the choice not to, but if they require things like emergency room treatment, etc., the rest of us will end up paying for it anyway.
that was something that needed addressed I agree

I was talking about those people who simply don't want insurance by their own choosing

 
that was something that needed addressed I agree

I was talking about those people who simply don't want insurance by their own choosing
If people were signed up for Medicare like they are for Social Security, then they wouldn't have to choose whether they had insurance or not. Just how much.

Think of it this way. The way it gets paid for is that it would be a deduction from your paycheck. Instead of paying health insurance premiums that are deducted from your paycheck by your employer, that same amount of money would go to "Medicare", and you would have Medicare as your health insurance, everybody would. Your company, in addition to saving money that they no longer have to pay because they aren't providing health insurance, could decide to kick you some money each month to buy a "Medicare Supplement" policy that would help cover more of the out of pocket costs like co-pays and deductibles. That way, people aren't deciding if they have health insurance or not. Just how much they have, and what cost structure they decide (supplement policy or not for example). The private insurers could offer the Med Supp policies, just like they already do for people over 65, so they are not eliminated from the equation.

Another way to think about it: Younger people are healthier. Do people think Medicare would benefit from having a healthier pool added to it? Think about it from adding 50 year olds and up: would those people have more claims or fewer than 65+ year olds (hint: fewer), so it makes sense to add them to the pool, collect premiums from them, and pay out less in claims relatively speaking.

 
Have you read this, Cav? I've long believed health should be a public trust and that it will be even more vital to America's viability in the coming drone economy, but this piece shows how patients have become almost as corrupt as providers in the last gen or two, making us need to consider how we consume health care as well how we supply it.

 
To coin a Clint Eastwood quote, "Deserves got nothing to do with it." Personally, I believe our society should come up with a healthcare solution that this generation agrees to fund. If there's a line to stand in, I'll be in the line willingly paying more to help those who need. Getting to the root of healthcare costs, our biggest barrier, would need to be part of that discussion. The line I won't be in is the one taking an easy moral stance, while asking our children and grandchildren to ultimately pay for something left as a runaway train.

 
Have you read this, Cav? I've long believed health should be a public trust and that it will be even more vital to America's viability in the coming drone economy, but this piece shows how patients have become almost as corrupt as providers in the last gen or two, making us need to consider how we consume health care as well how we supply it.
No, I read a few minutes in and have to run.  Will pick it up tonight.  Thanks.  

 
If people were signed up for Medicare like they are for Social Security, then they wouldn't have to choose whether they had insurance or not.
some people do not want to sign up for anything though

the question was do the people who can't afford it deserve what they get .... and I will add to my statement that people's choices are there own BUT for the few people in the USA who need help there needs to be a social net and there is

there are a lot of things if the Govt provided for with no cost that people wouldn't worry about having to acquire on their own .... healthcare, autos, homes, food etc   how much do you want the Fed Govt to provide is something always debatable, but always remember nothing is free, taxpayers who work paying into the system are the ones paying for everything, not the US Govt

 

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