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Doctor violently dragged from full United flight (1 Viewer)

The General said:
I was kidding but at least they have a policy for that when the pull the random number for who is about to get the boot.
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Don't believe the bull#### about it being random.  They go down the list of fare class, status (they're not pulling platinums off the plane), etc. to get to the bottom of the list.  

 
lod001 said:
I don't see it ending any way but the way it did unless someone else volunteered to leave at that time. He was picked randomly. He didn't want to leave. They had to, at that point, forcibly remove him. What are they to do? "Ok this guy doesn't want to leave, we are redrawing and one of you is leaving." The worst thing they did was do it because their own people were taking the seats. That part I do find ridiculous.
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They capped out at an $800 offer and had a higher ceiling.

Saying "I don't see it ending any other way" to be blunt is extremely myopic and is same attitude that has UA in hot water. You can't possibly tell me there was absolutely no way to avoid this situation and that the way it ended was inevitable. 

Again...I guarantee you that if UA had to do this all over again they would have done it differently.

 
lod001 said:
Once they asked him to leave and he refused, he was trespassing. It's no different that when you see guys hauled out at a sporting event. You are asked to leave first and then you get a beat down if you refuse.
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Usually the guys being hauled out at a sporting event are being done so with cause.  This case won't see a court room because UA and whatever LE agency administered the beating will settle quickly and quietly.

 
Phil Elliott said:
Was on a Delta (NWA) flight taking off at Newark. Strong crosswinds so airline asked for 14 passengers to get off to make plane lighter ( they offered compensation). They leave. About 15 min later they all come back on the plane. Pilot says we are going to go to end of run way and burn off x pounds of fuel for 20 minutes instead. A pilot was sitting next to me, takes out a pen and starts crunching some numbers...then says "yes we should be ok".  :mellow:
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If I recall correctly I think jet kerosene weighs about 6.7 lbs per gallon 

 
Buzzbait said:
They capped out at an $800 offer and had a higher ceiling.

Saying "I don't see it ending any other way" to be blunt is extremely myopic and is same attitude that has UA in hot water. You can't possibly tell me there was absolutely no way to avoid this situation and that the way it ended was inevitable. 

Again...I guarantee you that if UA had to do this all over again they would have done it differently.
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Which is what?

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
There is sometimes a huge difference between what is legally allowed and what is just the "right thing to do".  This company chose to put its small print ahead of proper customer service and are stubbornly sticking by it.  Stupid move in my opinion- and stupid move by the CEO for taking the stance that he is. I hope that United is foolish enough to try to charge this passenger with trespassing to further paint themselves in the bad light that they deserve. Frankly- I could care less about the customers past. He paid for his ticket, he got a boarding pass with a confirmation number,  all indications are that he was not acting a fool in any way until the airline tried to unfairly kick him off of a flight for no good reason (other than them being too cheap to charter transportation for their own employees).
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Can you point to the small print that allows this?  

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
There is sometimes a huge difference between what is legally allowed and what is just the "right thing to do".  This company chose to put its small print ahead of proper customer service and are stubbornly sticking by it.  Stupid move in my opinion- and stupid move by the CEO for taking the stance that he is. I hope that United is foolish enough to try to charge this passenger with trespassing to further paint themselves in the bad light that they deserve. Frankly- I could care less about the customers past. He paid for his ticket, he got a boarding pass with a confirmation number,  all indications are that he was not acting a fool in any way until the airline tried to unfairly kick him off of a flight for no good reason (other than them being too cheap to charter transportation for their own employees).
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Can you point to the small print that allows this?  

 
Sand said:
Don't believe the bull#### about it being random.  They go down the list of fare class, status (they're not pulling platinums off the plane), etc. to get to the bottom of the list.  
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And this isn't the way they should be going about it?

 
lod001 said:
We will see. I seriously doubt it. They will pay their lawyers millions not to pay him millions. If they lose, there are 100's more idiots lining up hoping they get picked so they can follow this guy's lead.
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Pay lawyers millions for more bad pub or just pay him off to make this go away as quickly as possible.  Hmmm, tough decision.

You must not fly much.  You NEVER get bumped from your seat unless the airline royally ####s up.

 
Scoresman said:
Someone explain what this means.  How does the weight of 14 people or 20 minutes of fuel make a difference compared to the total weight of a plane and if it's really that close, how is it safe to takeoff?  

I would've volunteered out of sheer terror.
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Same here. "Are you sure you need to burn fuel for 20 minutes and not 21 minutes?  Nevermind, lemme outta here!".

 
lod001 said:
Which is what?
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"They capped out at an $800 offer and had a higher ceiling."

You cannot tell me with a straight face they explored all options. Someone at UA was lazy, didn't use common sense, pointed to policy and said "Get him off the plane."

I guarantee you that in hind sight UA would have handled this differently which is all that needs to be said. The outcome wasn't inevitable as you infer.

 
Short Corner said:
Pay lawyers millions for more bad pub or just pay him off to make this go away as quickly as possible.  Hmmm, tough decision.

You must not fly much.  You NEVER get bumped from your seat unless the airline royally ####s up.
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I fly at least 3 times a year. I have taken the free flights on a couple of trips in order to fly out at a later time. Both times from Vegas. I volunteered both times. I would much rather wait and hold out for more $ however.

 
Buzzbait said:
"They capped out at an $800 offer and had a higher ceiling."

You cannot tell me with a straight face they explored all options. Someone at UA was lazy, didn't use common sense, pointed to policy and said "Get him off the plane."

I guarantee you that in hind sight UA would have handled this differently which is all that needs to be said. The outcome wasn't inevitable as you infer.
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Yeah they could have kept asking and offering more. Someone would have taken the $ eventually.

 
lod001 said:
I fly at least 3 times a year. I have taken the free flights on a couple of trips in order to fly out at a later time. Both times from Vegas. I volunteered both times. I would much rather wait and hold out for more $ however.
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They pull you from the gate or at the counter.  Overbooking may be common but they are in total control of how many boarding passes they print out.  I fly about a dozen times a year and have never seen anyone bumped once they have boarded.

 
The big screwup here is now way more people are more informed on the options airlines have, and will be holding out a lot longer and for a lot more money knowing that there is no ####### way they bring the police on to intervene like that for any reason whatsoever.  

 
lod001 said:
We will see. I seriously doubt it. They will pay their lawyers millions not to pay him millions. If they lose, there are 100's more idiots lining up hoping they get picked so they can follow this guy's lead.
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Using this logic no lawsuits ever get settled

 
Short Corner said:
Usually the guys being hauled out at a sporting event are being done so with cause.  This case won't see a court room because UA and whatever LE agency administered the beating will settle quickly and quietly.
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I can just see it if you pay for a nice seat at the Super Bowl, the game is about to kick off and then security comes by and says that four NFL employees decided that they wanted to see the game and, guess what, you won our lucky SOOL lottery. Enjoy your complimentary seats to a preseason game next year, on us.

Totally within their rights, correct? 

 
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Short Corner said:
They pull you from the gate or at the counter.  Overbooking may be common but they are in total control of how many boarding passes they print out.  I fly about a dozen times a year and have never seen anyone bumped once they have boarded.
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Yes. They announced that they were overbooked before boarding and we took it once we found the offer worth the wait. Like I said, one was to flying out red eye and get a free flight back to Vegas within a year. Since back then we were going every year, it was a no brainer. But if I was already on board, I'm getting off and taking their free $.

 
culdeus said:
The big screwup here is now way more people are more informed on the options airlines have, and will be holding out a lot longer and for a lot more money knowing that there is no ####### way they bring the police on to intervene like that for any reason whatsoever.  
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How often does it happen that people are already on the plane before they figure htis #### out? I have nbever seen it defore

 
lod001 said:
I fly at least 3 times a year. I have taken the free flights on a couple of trips in order to fly out at a later time. Both times from Vegas. I volunteered both times. I would much rather wait and hold out for more $ however.
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Every flight I've ever had to Vegas had an offer to fly later in exchange for a voucher.  The amount offered is usually pretty low though ($200). 

 
culdeus said:
Can you point to the small print that allows this?  
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Many businesses have the right to refuse service, many have stipulations that say "terms and conditions can change with no notice" etc.  I'm not an expert on airline protocol but I'd bet that they probably do have some legal protections in situations like this (as absurd as that is). 

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
Many businesses have the right to refuse service, many have stipulations that say "terms and conditions can change with no notice" etc.  I'm not an expert on airline protocol but I'd bet that they probably do have some legal protections in situations like this (as absurd as that is). 
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So is that a no?

 
Statorama said:
Every flight I've ever had to Vegas had an offer to fly later in exchange for a voucher.  The amount offered is usually pretty low though ($200). 
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Mine were free flights anywhere in continental US within 1 year. It was a long time ago though. Back in the 90's or early 2000s.

 
Re: legal questions - I have seen what seem to be goood arguments on both sides of the "boarding" question, but there must be legal case law on this I would imagine.  Has anyone seen any specific legal precedent on this?

The UA COC defines oversold as:

Oversold Flight means a flight where there are more Passengers holding valid confirmed Tickets that check-in for the flight within the prescribed check-in time than there are available seats.

nothing about employees; the question is whether each of the 4 held valid confirmed tickets.

 
culdeus said:
The big screwup here is now way more people are more informed on the options airlines have, and will be holding out a lot longer and for a lot more money knowing that there is no ####### way they bring the police on to intervene like that for any reason whatsoever.  
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The airline is in complete control of the number of boarding passes it issues.  These things are settled well before boarding and the unlucky schmuck is usually given a take-it-or-leave-it offer.

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
Many businesses have the right to refuse service, many have stipulations that say "terms and conditions can change with no notice" etc.  I'm not an expert on airline protocol but I'd bet that they probably do have some legal protections in situations like this (as absurd as that is). 
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My wife negotiates airline contracts for one of Germany's biggest companies and tells me no way in hell she is getting off once she is in her seat.

 
My advice to United is stick to their guns and absorb the PR hit (if they didn't do anything illegal).

People choose airlines based on price and convenience for the most part. 

 
Sand said:
Don't believe the bull#### about it being random.  They go down the list of fare class, status (they're not pulling platinums off the plane), etc. to get to the bottom of the list.  
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Well sure as it should be.

If there are 20 random guys flying on the cheapest ticket possible they would be the ones that are then randomly selected from to get the heave ho.

 
Scoresman said:
Then these should be the seats that have to be vacated if it comes to that.  Booking last minute?  Know that you might not get on if everyone else shows up.  
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When you pay quadruple if not more the price?  Basic business to me. Now I think it is pretty crappy they would bump someone but from a business perspective I get it.  

 
Has anyone ever tallied up the total amount of $ (cash/vouchers/etc) total that is given to bumped passengers?  The airlines aren't just giving away free money and free flights...the rest of us are paying for that every time we agree to the BS $25 baggage fee.  

In my dream world scenario, airlines don't oversell flights, nobody gets bumped, so nobody has to be compensated for getting bumped, then the cost of our tickets can go down.  It'll never happen, but just a thought...

 
wlwiles said:
Has anyone ever tallied up the total amount of $ (cash/vouchers/etc) total that is given to bumped passengers?  The airlines aren't just giving away free money and free flights...the rest of us are paying for that every time we agree to the BS $25 baggage fee.  

In my dream world scenario, airlines don't oversell flights, nobody gets bumped, so nobody has to be compensated for getting bumped, then the cost of our tickets can go down.  It'll never happen, but just a thought...
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Apparently UA's vouchers are worthless.  They are only redeemable against full fare tickets.  

 
Always seems like little Asians have been getting tossed off planes as of late.

Wonder if United would have thrown 2 big black guys off the plane who were chosen randomly?

 
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