Does anyone else try to use this trade method... (1 Viewer)

[King of the Jungle]

I have been able to pull this of a handful of times, and I am wondering what you guys think about it.

SCENARIO

*Keep in mind the players/values/positions are irrelevant in this illustration.

Team A trades Kevin Jones for Andre Johnson. Team A then trades Santana Moss for Kevin Jones.

In the two trades, Team A ends up with: Andre Johnson & Kevin Jones.

In the two trades, Team B ends up with: Santana Moss

POSITIVES

After the two trades are performed, Team A usually ends up with a much better package.

NEGATIVES

You may not be able to pull that second trade.

I have done this in at least three different scenarios over the last 5 years. It seems to workout real well if when executed properly.

Anyone else play this game? Is this a skewed way to viewing trading?

 

[Burning Sensation]

I have been able to pull this of a handful of times, and I am wondering what you guys think about it.

SCENARIO

*Keep in mind the players/values/positions are irrelevant in this illustration.

Team A trades Kevin Jones for Andre Johnson. Team A then trades Santana Moss for Kevin Jones.

In the two trades, Team A ends up with: Andre Johnson & Kevin Jones.

In the two trades, Team B ends up with: Santana Moss

POSITIVES

After the two trades are performed, Team A usually ends up with a much better package.

NEGATIVES

You may not be able to pull that second trade.

I have done this in at least three different scenarios over the last 5 years. It seems to workout real well if when executed properly.

Anyone else play this game? Is this a skewed way to viewing trading?

Fixed, all you really did was trade Moss for AJ, which would not be bad either, but odds are nobody would make either of those trades.

 

[radballs]

I have been able to pull this of a handful of times, and I am wondering what you guys think about it.

SCENARIO

*Keep in mind the players/values/positions are irrelevant in this illustration.

Team A trades Kevin Jones for Andre Johnson. Team A then trades Santana Moss for Kevin Jones.

In the two trades, Team A ends up with: Andre Johnson & Kevin Jones.

In the two trades, Team B ends up with: Santana Moss

POSITIVES

After the two trades are performed, Team A usually ends up with a much better package.

NEGATIVES

You may not be able to pull that second trade.

I have done this in at least three different scenarios over the last 5 years. It seems to workout real well if when executed properly.

Anyone else play this game? Is this a skewed way to viewing trading?

Fixed, all you really did was trade Moss for AJ, which would not be bad either, but odds are nobody would make either of those trades.

This is simple triangular arbitrage. Problem is finding owners that will both see things the way you want them. In other words, why not just trade S. Moss for AJ in the first place? Oh, the AJ owner thinks he's worth more than S. Moss? Well, I don't blame him but who's to say that once you've traded away K. Jones that you're going to get him back.That said, if you're able to garner enough honest information from two different owners about their value tendencies regarding certain players, you'd be a fool not to try to take advantage of them. I just don't see most people having that type of information readily available to part with KJ in the first place to attempt it. But, if you have that info and you don't think it's a bluff, then sure, why not.

 

[-X-]

You must have some serious morons in your league then. Leagues should have a timeframe for "tradebacks" but since your league apparently doesn't have a rule against this, congratulations.

 

[Steve Polychronopolous]

I have been able to pull this of a handful of times, and I am wondering what you guys think about it.SCENARIO*Keep in mind the players/values/positions are irrelevant in this illustration.Team A trades Kevin Jones for Andre Johnson. Team A then trades Santana Moss for Kevin Jones.In the two trades, Team A ends up with: Andre Johnson & Kevin Jones.In the two trades, Team B ends up with: Santana MossPOSITIVESAfter the two trades are performed, Team A usually ends up with a much better package.NEGATIVESYou may not be able to pull that second trade.I have done this in at least three different scenarios over the last 5 years. It seems to workout real well if when executed properly.Anyone else play this game? Is this a skewed way to viewing trading?

 

[radballs]

Another couple of variables to consider when attempting this kind of trading is if you wait until the season starts. Then, either by using early poor games by your targets in order to pounce after slow starts can get you to your end game. Or, you might use anticipated SOS to acquire your targets if you see smoother waters on the horizon for them.

 

[radballs]

You must have some serious morons in your league then. Leagues should have a timeframe for "tradebacks" but since your league apparently doesn't have a rule against this, congratulations.

This wouldn't necessarily be considered being "tradebacks" if you're talking about two different players in each trade.

 

[radballs]

All of this depends on how far apart the trades are too. I think I was a bit confused about the original premise given the other responses. I was assuming you meant that the KJ owner from the first trade wasn't the same one from the second trade, i.e. the new KJ owner moved him to a different owner.

How much time were you suggesting between trades?

 

[King of the Jungle]

All of this depends on how far apart the trades are too. I think I was a bit confused about the original premise given the other responses. I was assuming you meant that the KJ owner from the first trade wasn't the same one from the second trade, i.e. the new KJ owner moved him to a different owner. How much time were you suggesting between trades?

The time table can vary, depending on the fluctuation of a particular players value. The timing of the two trades is the determining factor in making this work to your favor.

 

[Grid71]

I have been able to pull this of a handful of times, and I am wondering what you guys think about it.SCENARIO*Keep in mind the players/values/positions are irrelevant in this illustration.Team A trades Kevin Jones for Andre Johnson. Team A then trades Santana Moss for Kevin Jones.In the two trades, Team A ends up with: Andre Johnson & Kevin Jones.In the two trades, Team B ends up with: Santana MossPOSITIVESAfter the two trades are performed, Team A usually ends up with a much better package.NEGATIVESYou may not be able to pull that second trade.I have done this in at least three different scenarios over the last 5 years. It seems to workout real well if when executed properly.Anyone else play this game? Is this a skewed way to viewing trading?

This makes as much sense as having cheerleaders in Pittsburgh.

 

[-X-]

Yeah, enough time has to lapse so that nobody puts two and two together... It can work against you as well, especially if the reacquired player goes down to injury or is demoted but then this is nothing new. Just be careful if you try to do it in a short period of time.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

In the two trades, Team A ends up with: Andre Johnson & Kevin Jones.In the two trades, Team B ends up with: Santana Moss

What? All you did was trade S Moss for A Johnson. WTF are you talking about with all that other garbage? You are trying to insinuate that you got AJ and KJ for Moss and that is not anywhere close to the truth.

 

[faulkfan]

I have done tradebacks, but I don't use this method for the simple fact that I don't give up guys I like on the hope that I can get them back. If I am dealing them then I don't expect or want to get them back and it leaves me at the mercy of the other owners whims.

The tradebacks that I do are prearranged or happen due to perhaps a thrid team backing out and leaving myself and the other owner seeking a way to pull off the trade on our own.

 

[JAA]

I am very surprised that your sister allows your pet dog to play in the two of yours league

 

[-OZ-]

In the two trades, Team A ends up with: Andre Johnson & Kevin Jones.In the two trades, Team B ends up with: Santana Moss

What? All you did was trade S Moss for A Johnson. WTF are you talking about with all that other garbage? You are trying to insinuate that you got AJ and KJ for Moss and that is not anywhere close to the truth.

POSITIVESAfter the two trades are performed, Team A usually ends up with a much better package.

Not any more than if Team A just traded Moss in the first place. In my experience, the "winner" is usually the guy who didn't pursue this deal.

 

[ShadowMaster]

1) Team B would have to be owned by an idiot.

2) Our league rules prevent an owner from trading for a player he previously traded away. I imagine other have some restrictions here as well (it prevents friends from loaning each other players).

 

[QUEZILLA]

Ah yes, the good old "boomerang trade"

 

[-OZ-]

1) Team B would have to be owned by an idiot.2) Our league rules prevent an owner from trading for a player he previously traded away. I imagine other have some restrictions here as well (it prevents friends from loaning each other players).

I disagree with #1. Depends how much time goes by, but I've traded away and reacquired players before. Sometimes you trade a player just to realize you wish he were still on your team. Luckily, I haven't had to overpay to get the player back, but the overall deal usually ends up being fair. #2 is completely up to your league and understandable. I don't like the rule, but it does make some sense.

 

[AB in DC]

If the trades are fair, I really don't get what the problem is.

 

[Cixelsyd]

I have been able to pull this of a handful of times, and I am wondering what you guys think about it.SCENARIO*Keep in mind the players/values/positions are irrelevant in this illustration.Team A trades Kevin Jones for Andre Johnson. Team A then trades Santana Moss for Kevin Jones.In the two trades, Team A ends up with: Andre Johnson & Kevin Jones.In the two trades, Team B ends up with: Santana MossPOSITIVESAfter the two trades are performed, Team A usually ends up with a much better package.NEGATIVESYou may not be able to pull that second trade.I have done this in at least three different scenarios over the last 5 years. It seems to workout real well if when executed properly.Anyone else play this game? Is this a skewed way to viewing trading?

This makes NO SENSE whatsoever... Why is Kevin Jones even part of the deal??? In the Trade Team A gets AJ and Team B gets Santana Moss... the RB make no sense... what is the time frame in between???No one in a correct frame of mine would use this "method"...

 

[chook]

I have been able to pull this of a handful of times, and I am wondering what you guys think about it.

SCENARIO

*Keep in mind the players/values/positions are irrelevant in this illustration.

Team A trades Kevin Jones for Andre Johnson. Team A then trades Santana Moss for Kevin Jones.

In the two trades, Team A ends up with: Andre Johnson & Kevin Jones.

In the two trades, Team B ends up with: Santana Moss

POSITIVES

After the two trades are performed, Team A usually ends up with a much better package.

NEGATIVES

You may not be able to pull that second trade.

I have done this in at least three different scenarios over the last 5 years. It seems to workout real well if when executed properly.

Anyone else play this game? Is this a skewed way to viewing trading?

This makes NO SENSE whatsoever... Why is Kevin Jones even part of the deal??? In the Trade Team A gets AJ and Team B gets Santana Moss... the RB make no sense... what is the time frame in between???No one in a correct frame of mine would use this "method"...

So how long has Santana Moss been on your roster then?

 

[King of the Jungle]

It is just a round-a-bout way to target a particular player. I have found success using this method before.

Talk amongst yourselves.

 

[bostonfred]

The tradebacks that I do are prearranged

What does this mean, exactly?

 

[nygiants56]

You must have some serious morons in your league then. Leagues should have a timeframe for "tradebacks" but since your league apparently doesn't have a rule against this, congratulations.

we have a rule that any player traded or waived, cannot be back on the same team, for 3 weeks.

 

[-OZ-]

It is just a round-a-bout way to target a particular player. I have found success using this method before.Talk amongst yourselves.

The better method is to see the player you want (say, Andre Johnson), evaluate what that team needs (say, RB) and see if you can make a direct offer for him. Assuming you don't match up well (you don't have extra RBs of value), see if another team does. Make that team an offer based on his weaknesses (say he needs WRs and likes Santana Moss and has Ronnie Brown, and will make that deal). Then you make that deal, usually people will cry "I would have given more if I knew Ronnie was available!!!", then you turn around and deal Brown for AJ. It essentially is a 3 way trade, but you're running the show.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

In the two trades, Team A ends up with: Andre Johnson & Kevin Jones.In the two trades, Team B ends up with: Santana Moss

What? All you did was trade S Moss for A Johnson. WTF are you talking about with all that other garbage? You are trying to insinuate that you got AJ and KJ for Moss and that is not anywhere close to the truth.

Team B also got the use of KJ for an unspecified period of time. For example, maybe the trade was AJ for Moss, plus the use of KJ for one or two weeks to cover an injury or bye week. In many leagues this type of short-term lease would be illegal. In leagues that allow a player "loan" of this nature, I would expect the second half of the trade would have to be disclosed up front.

 

[faulkfan]

The tradebacks that I do are prearranged

What does this mean, exactly?

We have limited keeper spots in designated positions. i.e I can keep 4 RBs and 3 WRs due to the style of offense I run. I have had trades where somone wanted an early draftpick of mine so in exhange I had him hold another RB for me on his roster and after the cuts we traded my pick for the RB he held for me.It looks like this...

before the cuts I give him lets say Cedric Benson for some guy he doesn't want.

I get to keep my 4 RBs like normal and the other guy holds 2 (or three whatever) and one of them is Benson.

After the cuts and before the draft I give him my 1st round pick, lets say its 1.8, for Cedric Benson. This is just an example so we don't need 50 posts saying tha it is a horrible trade or unfair or Benson isn't worth that or he is worth more than that. IT IS HYPOTHETICAL

My other option would be to trade my pick for some player of his after the cuts, but there aren't usually a whole lot of players that two owners can agree on their pick value as we all tend to overvalue our players or the guys we expect to get with our picks. This is just a way for him to get his pick and for me to get something that I want in return. If the other guys team is crappy and he didn't have two good RBs anyway then he got a 1st round pick for nothing more than letting me borrow a roster spot.

 

[Tick]

I've done this without planning to, but would never make trade A unless I felt it made my team better.

 

[Bossman]

What? All you did was trade S Moss for A Johnson. WTF are you talking about with all that other garbage? You are trying to insinuate that you got AJ and KJ for Moss and that is not anywhere close to the truth.

Ah yes, the good old "boomerang trade"

I think we need to see these 3 or 4 specific examples of this "Boomerang Trade" instead of your "hypothetical" deal.

 

[grind]

I have been able to pull this of a handful of times, and I am wondering what you guys think about it.SCENARIO*Keep in mind the players/values/positions are irrelevant in this illustration.Team A trades Kevin Jones for Andre Johnson. Team A then trades Santana Moss for Kevin Jones.In the two trades, Team A ends up with: Andre Johnson & Kevin Jones.In the two trades, Team B ends up with: Santana MossPOSITIVESAfter the two trades are performed, Team A usually ends up with a much better package.NEGATIVESYou may not be able to pull that second trade.I have done this in at least three different scenarios over the last 5 years. It seems to workout real well if when executed properly.Anyone else play this game? Is this a skewed way to viewing trading?

Well I can honestly say I have never traded this way. Like most things in my life, I try to simplify things quite a bit. If I want Andre Johnson and I’m willing to give up Santana Moss to get him, I just offer Moss for Johnson. From what I can gather, Team A starts with KJ and ends up with KJ. The only difference is that Team A loses Moss and gets Johnson.Maybe I should consider something like this. I trade McNabb, LaMont, and Winslow to Team B for Palmer, Th. Jones, and LJ Smith. Then I trade Th. Jones and Marvin Harrison to Team B for Winslow and T. Owens. Then I trade LJ Smith and T. Owens for Lamont and Harrison. After all this, I think I would scratch my head and think, “Hmmmm….why didn’t I just trade McNabb for Palmer in the first place”?

 

[grind]

I have been able to pull this of a handful of times, and I am wondering what you guys think about it.SCENARIO*Keep in mind the players/values/positions are irrelevant in this illustration.Team A trades Kevin Jones for Andre Johnson. Team A then trades Santana Moss for Kevin Jones.In the two trades, Team A ends up with: Andre Johnson & Kevin Jones.In the two trades, Team B ends up with: Santana MossPOSITIVESAfter the two trades are performed, Team A usually ends up with a much better package.NEGATIVESYou may not be able to pull that second trade.I have done this in at least three different scenarios over the last 5 years. It seems to workout real well if when executed properly.Anyone else play this game? Is this a skewed way to viewing trading?

Well I can honestly say I have never traded this way. Like most things in my life, I try to simplify things quite a bit. If I want Andre Johnson and I’m willing to give up Santana Moss to get him, I just offer Moss for Johnson. From what I can gather, Team A starts with KJ and ends up with KJ. The only difference is that Team A loses Moss and gets Johnson.Maybe I should consider something like this. I trade McNabb, LaMont, and Winslow to Team B for Palmer, Th. Jones, and LJ Smith. Then I trade Th. Jones and Marvin Harrison to Team B for Winslow and T. Owens. Then I trade LJ Smith and T. Owens for Lamont and Harrison. After all this, I think I would scratch my head and think, “Hmmmm….why didn’t I just trade McNabb for Palmer in the first place”?

I should say that I don't see the point of trading this way, but I would encourage anyone in my league to use this method since we generally charge a fee per player traded, which is ultimately distributed to the winner of the league. I like large pots, so the more players involved in trades, the better. If someone wants to trade their entire team back and forth all year, I'm all for it.

 

[dirtyhalos]

fyi....i just recently tried this trading tactic, and it didnt work

in fact the owner said "you are trying to boomerang me, but i'm not buying"

 

[acefootball]

Back in my day, we just called it the ol switch a roo.....

 

[John Mamula]

All of this depends on how far apart the trades are too. I think I was a bit confused about the original premise given the other responses. I was assuming you meant that the KJ owner from the first trade wasn't the same one from the second trade, i.e. the new KJ owner moved him to a different owner. How much time were you suggesting between trades?

in my main keeper league, if you trade away a player, he cannot be back on your roster for the rest of the year.