Does Fox bench Jake now? (1 Viewer)

[Breesisdaman]

The Panthers gave the Saints a heck of a game yesterday and my sympathies go out to Panther fans. It is obvious to me that Jake Delhomme is a liability for them. Especially if they go behind in the game and have to rely on him to bring them back. Fox is a stubborn ole mule though. Does this outing against the Saints finally get Jake benched or do I continue to have to endure these kinds of outings for Steve Smith. Certainly the Panthers could find some player on their team with enough appeal to use in a trade for a decent QB option. Why have they not done this? I would at the very least pick up Jeff Garcia and see if he can learn the offense. Why is Fox so damn loyal to Jake Delhomme?

 

[pantherclub]

I counted 3 times yesterday that the Panthers ran the ball when it was 3 and 8 or more. That is utterly unacceptable as a fan. If you do not have faith in your qb to throw on 3rd down then whats the point? Having said that they did convert on a Dwill run on 3rd and 11.

 

[brindrod]

Why is Fox so damn loyal to Jake Delhomme?

Why that moron still has a coaching job in the NFL is beyond me. He's not even fit to manage a bowling alley on the night shift.

 

[Breesisdaman]

I counted 3 times yesterday that the Panthers ran the ball when it was 3 and 8 or more. That is utterly unacceptable as a fan. If you do not have faith in your qb to throw on 3rd down then whats the point? Having said that they did convert on a Dwill run on 3rd and 11.

I give the Panther run game props but there is only so far a one dimensional offense can take you. The Fox loyalty to Jake reminds me of a former Saints coach who had such loyalty to Aaron Brooks that he wouldn't bench him in a must win game against the Panthers. You remember that game I am sure, Everyone in the Stadium knew it except the coach." Jake Jake Jake" we shouted but to no avail. That is what I see in John Fox, I see Jim Haslett!

 

[gianmarco]

I counted 3 times yesterday that the Panthers ran the ball when it was 3 and 8 or more. That is utterly unacceptable as a fan. If you do not have faith in your qb to throw on 3rd down then whats the point? Having said that they did convert on a Dwill run on 3rd and 11.

If I were a panther fan, I'd be happier about them running on 3rd and 8 given the running talent they have than the passing on 1st, 2nd, and 3rd down that they've been doing given the running talent they have.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

What would Matt Moore or AJ Feeley solve? A different name turning the ball over to relieve boredom?

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

Why is Fox so damn loyal to Jake Delhomme?

Why that moron still has a coaching job in the NFL is beyond me. He's not even fit to manage a bowling alley on the night shift.

Ownership gave Jake a big extension this offseason. Fox has to live with that.

 

[pantherclub]

Why is Fox so damn loyal to Jake Delhomme?

Why that moron still has a coaching job in the NFL is beyond me. He's not even fit to manage a bowling alley on the night shift.

Ownership gave Jake a big extension this offseason. Fox has to live with that.

20 million guaranteed

 

[Liquid Tension]

Why is Fox so damn loyal to Jake Delhomme?

Why that moron still has a coaching job in the NFL is beyond me. He's not even fit to manage a bowling alley on the night shift.

Ownership gave Jake a big extension this offseason. Fox has to live with that.

On 4 occasions yesterday the receivers screwed up good passes. Jarrett is horrific. He should not see the field unless 4 other players are hurt. He stopped one route and then on another pass slowed up only to see the ball land where he would have been if stayed at full speed. Steve Smith ran a route where he didn't locate the ball and it could have been completed as well. Not sure why a receiver would be 30 yards down field and not bother to look back at the QB?I think delhomme has not been good, but yesterday was not all his fault. I don't think the backups are any better. It is not his fault that they fumbled twice also

 

[VaCatFan]

Jake will continue to be the starting QB. They've got too much money tied up with him for Fox to bench him. It would mean admitting they made a mistake. Jake wasn't terribad yesterday. He wasn't great either. Jeff Davidson is the one calling the plays. What killed Carolina yesterday was 3 fumbles lost. Yes, one of those belonged to Jake but the other two came from Stewart and DWilliams. Both of them (Williams and Stewart) have more fumbles through 8 games than they had all of last year and for DWilly, he has more fumbles lost this year than in his entire career so far. That seems to be a lack of focus to me. I think Fox would be best bet if he put both of them and Jake through the Tiki Barber school of holding onto the ball.

Carolina definitely needs to start planning for life without Jake. I'm not sure if we have the bullets to be able to get a decent rookie next year without our first round pick. Jake will continue to be the starter this year unless there is an injury. In the words of Fox, "It is what it is."

 

[omally]

The Panthers gave the Saints a heck of a game yesterday and my sympathies go out to Panther fans. It is obvious to me that Jake Delhomme is a liability for them. Especially if they go behind in the game and have to rely on him to bring them back. Fox is a stubborn ole mule though. Does this outing against the Saints finally get Jake benched or do I continue to have to endure these kinds of outings for Steve Smith. Certainly the Panthers could find some player on their team with enough appeal to use in a trade for a decent QB option. Why have they not done this? I would at the very least pick up Jeff Garcia and see if he can learn the offense. Why is Fox so damn loyal to Jake Delhomme?

I don't think Jake was that much of a liability for the Panthers yesterday. He lost one fumble, and Stewart and DeAngelo lost fumbles also. Drew Brees had an interception and a lost fumble. The Panthers aren't afraid to have Jake throw on third down, but Moose was out again, and Smith is usually double or tripled covered, so they have the TE's and Jarrett and Kenny Moore (and both of them are very raw). Had DeAngelo not fumbled and the Saints scored off that fumble, I think the Panthers would have gone down the field and either tied the game with a field goal, or scored a TD (field goal more than likely). It's obvious Jake is on the decline in his career now, but I don't think it's a given that Moore or Feeley would be doing better, although soon I would like to see Moore start some games. As for yesterday, Jake was not the cause of the loss, and Jake played just fine against the Cardinals the week before. In regard to Garcia, the Panthers did not have the money to pay him what he wanted, but he is in his twilight years as a player and may not do better himself. The Panthers will probably pull off a couple more upsets and lose some more close games. Who knows about next season. We could have a new coaching staff. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Big Cat clean house this off season.

 

[TommyGilmore]

Matt Moore and A.J. Feeley are not the answer.

Then again, most people didn't think Vince Young was the answer for Tennessee, yet they're 2-0 with him under center.

What do the Panthers have to lose by at least giving Moore or Feeley a shot??

 

[VaCatFan]

There are those that believe there is still a chance to get to the playoffs. I think until that question is answered, Jake stays the QB. Once that is done, you may see some of Moore to finish games and if he does well, maybe get a start at the end of the year. I don't think there's a snowballs chance in Hades that we get to the playoffs this year. Too many injuries and we may have just lost Tommy Davis for the year, so we may see a little more of Moore before the end of the year. Word floating around town was that he didn't know the playbook. If that was true, then it's all on the coaching staff for not preparing the backups better. This has been a consistent problem in Carolina in not having a QB friendly coach and/or QB coach.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

There are those that believe there is still a chance to get to the playoffs. I think until that question is answered, Jake stays the QB. Once that is done, you may see some of Moore to finish games and if he does well, maybe get a start at the end of the year. I don't think there's a snowballs chance in Hades that we get to the playoffs this year. Too many injuries and we may have just lost Tommy Davis for the year, so we may see a little more of Moore before the end of the year. Word floating around town was that he didn't know the playbook. If that was true, then it's all on the coaching staff for not preparing the backups better. This has been a consistent problem in Carolina in not having a QB friendly coach and/or QB coach.

The way I see it:Besides Williams, the most common target was the 3rd string TE.There is no WR threat besides SSmith.There is Mush, but besides beng injured I guess he just cannot make the big plays anymore?Bad drafts at the WR position.Watching the game, I guess Fox didn't throw it on those 3rd downs because he didn't think Jake could complete it.This game in the late 4th quarter felt like a copy of last year's Cats/Saints game in the Dome; I expected that Jake 46 yarder to SSmith to come on the prior series, maybe if the Panthers don't fumble and get to the 10 yard line they pull that off, just like last year. On the other hand the Saints defense is just plain better this year and it showed. The failure vs the Panthers last year was one of the main reasons for the overhaul in defensive coaching and the defensive backfield.Next year, the Panthers finally go QB in the 1st round, right? Can't be helped now I think, how can they not???

 

[pantherclub]

We have no first round pick this year.

 

[omally]

Watching the game, I guess Fox didn't throw it on those 3rd downs because he didn't think Jake could complete it.

I don't think that is true. Williams is very good on third down so why not put it in the hands of someone who is very capable of picking up the third down, and was having a good game? Jake threw for 200 yards so obviously he did throw it during the game, and although Moose has been shakey this year, he is still better than Jarrett and Moore who have had to play in his place the last two games. The Panthers are thin at WR, but couldn't pick one up in free agency due to money tied up in Peppers. Smith is constantly covered so Jake has had to throw a lot to the TE's this year. It's also worth noting that Williams dropped a TD pass in the endzone against the Saints.

 

[Avery]

Tom Jackson actually said it pretty well about Fox and Jake.

Fox is trying to hide his QB and you can't do that in the NFL.

I'll take it a step further, or a step back. You can only do that with a dominant defense and the Panthers just don't have that.

I remember a lot of people saying good things about Moore a year or two ago. I'd like to see him get a shot but I'm also guessing if he did, Fox would hamstring him into failure with an ultra-conservative game plan and play calling.

 

[Avery]

We have no first round pick this year.

Still a good trade to get Otah, however.

 

[omally]

We have no first round pick this year.

Still a good trade to get Otah, however.

That was two seasons ago when we traded our first rounder with the Eagles. We traded our first rounder for next year to move up in the second to get Everette Brown. I think we traded with San Francisco.

 

[saintsfan]

I was frustrated in the first half of yesterday's game, but I knew the Saints could come back because it was obvious to everyone that Fox was trying to hide his QB.

Jake is done. If you don't trust your QB to throw on 3rd and 8, why is he in the game?

 

[omally]

Jake is done. If you don't trust your QB to throw on 3rd and 8, why is he in the game?

The Panthers only had one 3rd and 8 yesterday and it was an incomplete pass from Delhomme to Jarrett. Here are his 3rd down passes yesterday:3-6-NO49 (8:37) J.Delhomme pass short left to M.Goodson to NO 47 for 2 yards (R.Harper). Pass -5, Catch 73-5-CAR26 (12:29) J.Delhomme pass deep right to G.Barnidge to CAR 42 for 16 yards (R.Harper) [C.Grant]. Penalty on NO-R.Harper, Defensive Pass Interference, declined. Pass 16, Catch 0 3-1-NO39 (10:11) J.Delhomme pass short left to D.Jarrett to NO 36 for 3 yards (T.Porter). Pass 0, Catch 3 3-6-NO6 (3:35) J.Delhomme pass incomplete short right to D.Williams. (Williams dropped TD pass)3-14-CAR16 (14:11) J.Delhomme pass deep middle to K.Moore to CAR 38 for 22 yards (M.Jenkins). Pass 18, Catch 4 3-8-NO43 (2:56) J.Delhomme pass incomplete deep right to D.Jarrett.3-10-CAR23 (1:46) J.Delhomme pass deep left to S.Smith to NO 31 for 46 yards (D.Sharper). Pass 36, Catch 10 3-2-NO2 25) J.Delhomme pass incomplete short left to S.Smith (D.Sharper)

 

[FDC]

Jake is done. If you don't trust your QB to throw on 3rd and 8, why is he in the game?

The Panthers only had one 3rd and 8 yesterday and it was an incomplete pass from Delhomme to Jarrett.

Carolina ran on 3rd and 11. 3rd and 12. 3rd and 16. All in the first half.No doubt Carolina is hiding Jake. Jake is arguably being hidden more than any QB we have seen in modern day football.

 

[Sweet Love]

What would Matt Moore or AJ Feeley solve? A different name turning the ball over to relieve boredom?

Exactly. I have not gone through the rest of the thread to see whether this has been addressed, but there is no one to relieve Delhomme for. Fox is actually a decent coach and if you look at his bosy of work as whole, it is pretty good. If you look at his body of work before Delhomme got hurt, it is very good...and that is the problem. Hurney (the GM) and/or Fox made one major mistake on this journey of theirs, and that is not drafting a high round QB to become the successor of Delhomme after he got injured. Said QB would be in his seocnd season now (like a Henne) and able to take over. If how the team failed after Delhomme went down in 2007 was not a wake up call, I am not sure what is. Even if they took a QB this year, they could "give it a go" and probably extend (both) their tenures another year. Instead this is a make or break 8 games for them and it is not looking good. Maybe Hurney is able to stay on (he seems to be a good GM, builds from the line out), but I am afraid Fox is as good as gone.Fox is a good, loyal coach, smoetime to a fault (in the case of Delhomme) and sometimes for the betterment of the team (see DWill).

 

[omally]

Jake is done. If you don't trust your QB to throw on 3rd and 8, why is he in the game?

The Panthers only had one 3rd and 8 yesterday and it was an incomplete pass from Delhomme to Jarrett.

Carolina ran on 3rd and 11. 3rd and 12. 3rd and 16. All in the first half.

I know they did, but 3rd and 8 was brought up more than once, and they never ran on 3rd and eight.

 

[FDC]

Not a Jake defender. But.....

Just wondering why Jake gets so much hate compared to someone say like, Marc Bulger, or Trent Edwards.

Jake certainly does not pass the eyeball test but he was a probowler at one point. And did have the 2nd highest QB rating in superbowl history. Carolina and Jake did also have the best record in the NFC last year (tied with NYG).

Screaming for Jake's head before Carolina is out of playoff contention is premature and inconsistent, at best. St. Louis and Buffalo haven't been in playoff contention in years and yet Edwards and Bulger don't have to deal with this.

 

[Avery]

Not a Jake defender. But.....

Just wondering why Jake gets so much hate compared to someone say like, Marc Bulger, or Trent Edwards.

Jake certainly does not pass the eyeball test but he was a probowler at one point. And did have the 2nd highest QB rating in superbowl history. Carolina and Jake did also have the best record in the NFC last year (tied with NYG).

Screaming for Jake's head before Carolina is out of playoff contention is premature and inconsistent, at best. St. Louis and Buffalo haven't been in playoff contention in years and yet Edwards and Bulger don't have to deal with this.

Those successes are years ago and far away.All I can say is watch Delhomme play. It's clear that he has fallen over the precipice of his career. He never had a great arm, but he doesn't even have the arm to make the necessary throws anymore. Couple that with terrible decision making and you have a recipe for disaster. Just the fact that you are his situation to St. Louis and Buffalo should indicate how far he's fallen.

Edit to add: Although I think Bulger could still be a worthy starter if he wasn't running for his life on every play.

 

[meanjoegreen]

Jake is done. If you don't trust your QB to throw on 3rd and 8, why is he in the game?

The Panthers only had one 3rd and 8 yesterday and it was an incomplete pass from Delhomme to Jarrett.

Carolina ran on 3rd and 11. 3rd and 12. 3rd and 16. All in the first half.No doubt Carolina is hiding Jake. Jake is arguably being hidden more than any QB we have seen in modern day football.

Jake was playing with a chest contusion, and he didn't have Moose out there who is also a great blocker, and Rosario is still out who has great hands catching the ball, and both their fullbacks (Hoover and Fiommetta) were out hurt so people had to take on new roles. I thought the rooking running back Sutton did a nice job in his first playing time ever. I don't know why Delhomme is getting so much heat in this thread. Sure he has struggled this season, but he wasn't the reason the Panthers didn't win the game. Considering all the injuries the Panthers have, they played the Saints pretty well, although they lost another player (Thomas Davis tore his ACL) in the game to injury. Also, Smith could have caught that long ball Delhomme threw to him, but he lost the ball in the lights, and DeAngelo should have caught that touchdown pass that he dropped. Delhomme has been inconsistent this year, but his receivers have made their share of mistakes as well.

 

[Avery]

Jake is done. If you don't trust your QB to throw on 3rd and 8, why is he in the game?

The Panthers only had one 3rd and 8 yesterday and it was an incomplete pass from Delhomme to Jarrett.

Carolina ran on 3rd and 11. 3rd and 12. 3rd and 16. All in the first half.No doubt Carolina is hiding Jake. Jake is arguably being hidden more than any QB we have seen in modern day football.

Jake was playing with a chest contusion, and he didn't have Moose out there who is also a great blocker, and Rosario is still out who has great hands catching the ball, and both their fullbacks (Hoover and Fiommetta) were out hurt so people had to take on new roles. I thought the rooking running back Sutton did a nice job in his first playing time ever. I don't know why Delhomme is getting so much heat in this thread. Sure he has struggled this season, but he wasn't the reason the Panthers didn't win the game. Considering all the injuries the Panthers have, they played the Saints pretty well, although they lost another player (Thomas Davis tore his ACL) in the game to injury.

Of every QB in the league that's started every game this season for his team, Delhomme has the most interceptions and the least number of TDs.Let that sink in.

The most interceptions in the entire league and the least number of TDs in the entire league among nine week starters.

Make any specific game excuses you want but to reach that level of ineptitude, the blame has to eventually come home to the guy making the throws.

 

[FDC]

Not a Jake defender. But.....

Just wondering why Jake gets so much hate compared to someone say like, Marc Bulger, or Trent Edwards.

Jake certainly does not pass the eyeball test but he was a probowler at one point. And did have the 2nd highest QB rating in superbowl history. Carolina and Jake did also have the best record in the NFC last year (tied with NYG).

Screaming for Jake's head before Carolina is out of playoff contention is premature and inconsistent, at best. St. Louis and Buffalo haven't been in playoff contention in years and yet Edwards and Bulger don't have to deal with this.

Those successes are years ago and far away.All I can say is watch Delhomme play. It's clear that he has fallen over the precipice of his career. He never had a great arm, but he doesn't even have the arm to make the necessary throws anymore. Couple that with terrible decision making and you have a recipe for disaster. Just the fact that you are his situation to St. Louis and Buffalo should indicate how far he's fallen.

Edit to add: Although I think Bulger could still be a worthy starter if he wasn't running for his life on every play.

12-4 last year was years ago?And no argument about the eyeball test on Jake - as stated in 1st post.

 

[Avery]

Not a Jake defender. But.....

Just wondering why Jake gets so much hate compared to someone say like, Marc Bulger, or Trent Edwards.

Jake certainly does not pass the eyeball test but he was a probowler at one point. And did have the 2nd highest QB rating in superbowl history. Carolina and Jake did also have the best record in the NFC last year (tied with NYG).

Screaming for Jake's head before Carolina is out of playoff contention is premature and inconsistent, at best. St. Louis and Buffalo haven't been in playoff contention in years and yet Edwards and Bulger don't have to deal with this.

Those successes are years ago and far away.All I can say is watch Delhomme play. It's clear that he has fallen over the precipice of his career. He never had a great arm, but he doesn't even have the arm to make the necessary throws anymore. Couple that with terrible decision making and you have a recipe for disaster. Just the fact that you are his situation to St. Louis and Buffalo should indicate how far he's fallen.

Edit to add: Although I think Bulger could still be a worthy starter if he wasn't running for his life on every play.

12-4 last year was years ago?And no argument about the eyeball test on Jake - as stated in 1st post.

Don't be obtuse.I bolded what I referred to.

Jakes lone pro-bowl was in 2005.

His Superbowl was in 2003.

Both ages ago in the life of an NFL career.

 

[meanjoegreen]

Of every QB in the league that's starter every game this season for his team, Delhomme has the most interceptions and the least number of TDs.

Let that sink in.

The most interceptions in the entire league and the least number of TDs in the entire league among nine week starters.

Make any specific game excuses you want but to reach that level of ineptitude, the blame has to eventually come home to the guy making the throws.

How am I making excuses for Jake by saying he wasn't to blame for yesterday's loss? He wasn't, but you would think by the tone of this thread he was. Jake has not played great this year, but his receivers have also tipped passes, run wrong routes, and dropped touchdown passes. They are also a running team, so he isn't going to have flashy stats. Jake has lost some of his ability and it is showing, but he isn't to blame for all the teams problems, and he certainly isn't to blame for yesterday's loss. I'm not going to hang him out to dry when his surrounding cast have made their share of mistakes as well.

 

[pollardsvision]

Fox obviously has no faith in Delhomme. He obviously doesn't have the stones to bench someone he obviously doesn't believe in.

Yesterday's gameplan reminded me of a small town high school football team.

My prediction:

They put Steve Smith directly under center. They line Deangelo, Stewart, and Goodson up in a wishbone formation and run the option every single play.

 

[Avery]

Of every QB in the league that's starter every game this season for his team, Delhomme has the most interceptions and the least number of TDs.

Let that sink in.

The most interceptions in the entire league and the least number of TDs in the entire league among nine week starters.

Make any specific game excuses you want but to reach that level of ineptitude, the blame has to eventually come home to the guy making the throws.

How am I making excuses for Jake by saying he wasn't to blame for yesterday's loss? He wasn't, but you would think by the tone of this thread he was. Jake has not played great this year, but his receivers have also tipped passes, run wrong routes, and dropped touchdown passes. They are also a running team, so he isn't going to have flashy stats. Jake has lost some of his ability and it is showing, but he isn't to blame for all the teams problems, and he certainly isn't to blame for yesterday's loss. I'm not going to hang him out to dry when his surrounding cast have made their share of mistakes as well.

It's not just one game. It's every game since that horrific playoff game last year.Fox is trying to put Delhomme in a situation "not to fail" so his interceptions (re: failures) should go down but he is game-planning around Delhomme obvious deficiencies.

To say he has "not played great this year" is an understatement of epic proportions. You think his epic fail of TDs/INTs only equates to "not played great". OK. How about QB rating.

Among QBs that have played at all this year Delhomme has the 5th worst QB rating only bested by Anderson, Russell, Josh Johnson and Stafford.

Talk about failures amongst others on the Panthers, and there sure have been, but you can't fail so miserable and consistently for eight straight games this year and it be somebody else's fault.

 

[basher]

Not a Jake defender. But.....Just wondering why Jake gets so much hate compared to someone say like, Marc Bulger, or Trent Edwards.Jake certainly does not pass the eyeball test but he was a probowler at one point. And did have the 2nd highest QB rating in superbowl history. Carolina and Jake did also have the best record in the NFC last year (tied with NYG). Screaming for Jake's head before Carolina is out of playoff contention is premature and inconsistent, at best. St. Louis and Buffalo haven't been in playoff contention in years and yet Edwards and Bulger don't have to deal with this.

because those teams are awful and this carolina team isn't really all that bad.

 

[FDC]

Not a Jake defender. But.....

Just wondering why Jake gets so much hate compared to someone say like, Marc Bulger, or Trent Edwards.

Jake certainly does not pass the eyeball test but he was a probowler at one point. And did have the 2nd highest QB rating in superbowl history. Carolina and Jake did also have the best record in the NFC last year (tied with NYG).

Screaming for Jake's head before Carolina is out of playoff contention is premature and inconsistent, at best. St. Louis and Buffalo haven't been in playoff contention in years and yet Edwards and Bulger don't have to deal with this.

Those successes are years ago and far away.All I can say is watch Delhomme play. It's clear that he has fallen over the precipice of his career. He never had a great arm, but he doesn't even have the arm to make the necessary throws anymore. Couple that with terrible decision making and you have a recipe for disaster. Just the fact that you are his situation to St. Louis and Buffalo should indicate how far he's fallen.

Edit to add: Although I think Bulger could still be a worthy starter if he wasn't running for his life on every play.

12-4 last year was years ago?And no argument about the eyeball test on Jake - as stated in 1st post.

Don't be obtuse.I bolded what I referred to.

Jakes lone pro-bowl was in 2005.

His Superbowl was in 2003.

Both ages ago in the life of an NFL career.

Bulger hasn't had a winning record or played well since 04. In that time Carolina has gone to the playoffs twice with a NFC Champ game appearance. Why no universal Bulger hate?

 

[Avery]

Not a Jake defender. But.....

Just wondering why Jake gets so much hate compared to someone say like, Marc Bulger, or Trent Edwards.

Jake certainly does not pass the eyeball test but he was a probowler at one point. And did have the 2nd highest QB rating in superbowl history. Carolina and Jake did also have the best record in the NFC last year (tied with NYG).

Screaming for Jake's head before Carolina is out of playoff contention is premature and inconsistent, at best. St. Louis and Buffalo haven't been in playoff contention in years and yet Edwards and Bulger don't have to deal with this.

Those successes are years ago and far away.All I can say is watch Delhomme play. It's clear that he has fallen over the precipice of his career. He never had a great arm, but he doesn't even have the arm to make the necessary throws anymore. Couple that with terrible decision making and you have a recipe for disaster. Just the fact that you are his situation to St. Louis and Buffalo should indicate how far he's fallen.

Edit to add: Although I think Bulger could still be a worthy starter if he wasn't running for his life on every play.

12-4 last year was years ago?And no argument about the eyeball test on Jake - as stated in 1st post.

Don't be obtuse.I bolded what I referred to.

Jakes lone pro-bowl was in 2005.

His Superbowl was in 2003.

Both ages ago in the life of an NFL career.

Bulger hasn't had a winning record or played well since 04. In that time Carolina has gone to the playoffs twice with a NFC Champ game appearance. Why no universal Bulger hate?

Have you watched a St. Louis game in the past couple of years? Understandable if you haven't because I doubt they've been featured much on TV but over the past couple of years Bulger has had a choice on almost every play to hand it off to Jackson or his choice of anyone amongst the defensive front he's facing. Amazing that he's still alive.As much as you want to spread the blame around for Delhomme's epic failures this year, you put the Panther's and the Rams on the same team and you might find one or two starters out of the entire Rams part of the new squad... and one of them would be Marc Bulger.

 

[meanjoegreen]

It's not just one game. It's every game since that horrific playoff game last year.Fox is trying to put Delhomme in a situation "not to fail" so his interceptions (re: failures) should go down but he is game-planning around Delhomme obvious deficiencies.

Are you kidding me? The Panthers playcalling in some games this year has been very suspect, and not as in trying to hide Delhomme, but has had us scratching our heads wondering why are they passing so much instead of running. It seemed more like the Panthers were setting Jake up to fail by having him pass all the time. They finally decided to run it down teams throats starting with the Cardinals game.

 

[Avery]

It's not just one game. It's every game since that horrific playoff game last year.

Fox is trying to put Delhomme in a situation "not to fail" so his interceptions (re: failures) should go down but he is game-planning around Delhomme obvious deficiencies.

Are you kidding me? The Panthers playcalling in some games this year has been very suspect, and not as in trying to hide Delhomme, but has had us scratching our heads wondering why are they passing so much instead of running. It seemed more like the Panthers were setting Jake up to fail by having him pass all the time. They finally decided to run it down teams throats starting with the Cardinals game.

I agree in the fact that Fox/Davidson were calling games earlier in the season as if Delhomme was still a competent NFL QB which he isn't therefore the plan was flawed.Now that Delhomme has more than proved he isn't, Fox/Davidson have adjusted the game plan to take the ball out of Jake's hands.

It's a chicken and the egg thing.

It's not that Delhomme failed because the gameplan was so flawed, the gameplan was flawed because if you let Delhomme throw it too much now (especially down the field or the deep out) he will fail.

 

[patrickmcgroin]

I hope a decent QB is there in the 2nd round next year in the draft.....

 

[saintsfan]

Jake is done. If you don't trust your QB to throw on 3rd and 8, why is he in the game?

The Panthers only had one 3rd and 8 yesterday and it was an incomplete pass from Delhomme to Jarrett. Here are his 3rd down passes yesterday:

Did you really just take me that literally??Should I have said, "if you don't trust your QB to throw for 3 and 8, 3rd and 9, 3rd and 10, ect???I think you know what I meant and if you watched the game yesterday, it was obvious Fox was hiding his QB. I know because I've seen the Saints do it more times than I can count in times where we had questionable QBing.

 

[kaa]

Not a Jake defender. But.....Just wondering why Jake gets so much hate compared to someone say like, Marc Bulger, or Trent Edwards.Jake certainly does not pass the eyeball test but he was a probowler at one point. And did have the 2nd highest QB rating in superbowl history. Carolina and Jake did also have the best record in the NFC last year (tied with NYG). Screaming for Jake's head before Carolina is out of playoff contention is premature and inconsistent, at best. St. Louis and Buffalo haven't been in playoff contention in years and yet Edwards and Bulger don't have to deal with this.

I notice that as well and I think its probably because the spectre of Bill Cowher looms over the Panther franchise. A lot of people think he wants that job, and I'm sure many fans would prefer him as head coach. That has to fuel bad feelings towards John Fox and DelHomme. Its divisive.

 

[VaCatFan]

Jake is done. If you don't trust your QB to throw on 3rd and 8, why is he in the game?

The Panthers only had one 3rd and 8 yesterday and it was an incomplete pass from Delhomme to Jarrett. Here are his 3rd down passes yesterday:

Did you really just take me that literally??Should I have said, "if you don't trust your QB to throw for 3 and 8, 3rd and 9, 3rd and 10, ect???I think you know what I meant and if you watched the game yesterday, it was obvious Fox was hiding his QB. I know because I've seen the Saints do it more times than I can count in times where we had questionable QBing.

FYI.... Carolina routinely would run the draw on 3rd and long in previous seasons. I know, we used to cuss Fox/Henning/Davidson for it every weekend.

 

[saintsfan]

Jake is done. If you don't trust your QB to throw on 3rd and 8, why is he in the game?

The Panthers only had one 3rd and 8 yesterday and it was an incomplete pass from Delhomme to Jarrett. Here are his 3rd down passes yesterday:

Did you really just take me that literally??Should I have said, "if you don't trust your QB to throw for 3 and 8, 3rd and 9, 3rd and 10, ect???I think you know what I meant and if you watched the game yesterday, it was obvious Fox was hiding his QB. I know because I've seen the Saints do it more times than I can count in times where we had questionable QBing.

FYI.... Carolina routinely would run the draw on 3rd and long in previous seasons. I know, we used to cuss Fox/Henning/Davidson for it every weekend.

I've also watched the Panthers play over the past 6 or 7 years and I know Fox is on the conservative side.What I saw yesterday was far and away worse than that. Worse than Jim Mora at his absolute worst. I think Fox has no faith in Jake at all, which is why I question why he's even in the game. If you're not going to let Jake play, why not find out how good Moore is?? Moore can hand off the ball on third and long just as well as Jake.

 

[az_prof]

Jake will continue to be the starting QB. They've got too much money tied up with him for Fox to bench him. It would mean admitting they made a mistake. Jake wasn't terribad yesterday. He wasn't great either. Jeff Davidson is the one calling the plays. What killed Carolina yesterday was 3 fumbles lost. Yes, one of those belonged to Jake but the other two came from Stewart and DWilliams. Both of them (Williams and Stewart) have more fumbles through 8 games than they had all of last year and for DWilly, he has more fumbles lost this year than in his entire career so far. That seems to be a lack of focus to me. I think Fox would be best bet if he put both of them and Jake through the Tiki Barber school of holding onto the ball. Carolina definitely needs to start planning for life without Jake. I'm not sure if we have the bullets to be able to get a decent rookie next year without our first round pick. Jake will continue to be the starter this year unless there is an injury. In the words of Fox, "It is what it is."

Maybe they should trade Dwill or Stewart in the offseason for a first round pick and take a QB? They can't afford to keep both guys beyond 2010 anyway.

 

[pantherclub]

Jake will continue to be the starting QB. They've got too much money tied up with him for Fox to bench him. It would mean admitting they made a mistake. Jake wasn't terribad yesterday. He wasn't great either. Jeff Davidson is the one calling the plays. What killed Carolina yesterday was 3 fumbles lost. Yes, one of those belonged to Jake but the other two came from Stewart and DWilliams. Both of them (Williams and Stewart) have more fumbles through 8 games than they had all of last year and for DWilly, he has more fumbles lost this year than in his entire career so far. That seems to be a lack of focus to me. I think Fox would be best bet if he put both of them and Jake through the Tiki Barber school of holding onto the ball. Carolina definitely needs to start planning for life without Jake. I'm not sure if we have the bullets to be able to get a decent rookie next year without our first round pick. Jake will continue to be the starter this year unless there is an injury. In the words of Fox, "It is what it is."

Maybe they should trade Dwill or Stewart in the offseason for a first round pick and take a QB? They can't afford to keep both guys beyond 2010 anyway.

No way that happens. Cowher loves having 2 great RB's on the roster.

 

[El Torero]

FYI.... Carolina routinely would run the draw on 3rd and long in previous seasons. I know, we used to cuss Fox/Henning/Davidson for it every weekend.

Can't bring the draw on third and long Sonia!

 

[simey]

Jake is done. If you don't trust your QB to throw on 3rd and 8, why is he in the game?

The Panthers only had one 3rd and 8 yesterday and it was an incomplete pass from Delhomme to Jarrett. Here are his 3rd down passes yesterday:

Did you really just take me that literally??Should I have said, "if you don't trust your QB to throw for 3 and 8, 3rd and 9, 3rd and 10, ect???I think you know what I meant and if you watched the game yesterday, it was obvious Fox was hiding his QB. I know because I've seen the Saints do it more times than I can count in times where we had questionable QBing.

FYI.... Carolina routinely would run the draw on 3rd and long in previous seasons. I know, we used to cuss Fox/Henning/Davidson for it every weekend.

I thought it would stop after Henning left, but it didn't. Yesterday's running on 3rd and long was nothing new.

 

[Dave Larkin]

It is frustrating that the reigns have been put on Delhomme, so to speak, but there's good reason for it. Fox knows that out of the QBs we have on the roster, he gives us the best chance to win. We play him every week for that reason alone. His turnovers have dried up recently, but at the expense of being actually able to pass the ball. We're a run first team obviously, but not being able to get Smitty involved has to be frustrating the life out of him and the coaching staff.

In answer to your question, Fox will not bench Delhomme. I see him being our QB going into next season too, barring a change of head coach. Fox is loyal to his vets and will live and die by how Delhomme plays down the stretch.

 

[Anonymous Internet User]

It is frustrating that the reigns have been put on Delhomme, so to speak, but there's good reason for it. Fox knows that out of the QBs we have on the roster, he gives us the best chance to win. We play him every week for that reason alone. His turnovers have dried up recently, but at the expense of being actually able to pass the ball. We're a run first team obviously, but not being able to get Smitty involved has to be frustrating the life out of him and the coaching staff.

In answer to your question, Fox will not bench Delhomme. I see him being our QB going into next season too, barring a change of head coach. Fox is loyal to his vets and will live and die by how Delhomme plays down the stretch.

 

[pantherclub]

It is frustrating that the reigns have been put on Delhomme, so to speak, but there's good reason for it. Fox knows that out of the QBs we have on the roster, he gives us the best chance to win. We play him every week for that reason alone. His turnovers have dried up recently, but at the expense of being actually able to pass the ball. We're a run first team obviously, but not being able to get Smitty involved has to be frustrating the life out of him and the coaching staff. In answer to your question, Fox will not bench Delhomme. I see him being our QB going into next season too, barring a change of head coach. Fox is loyal to his vets and will live and die by how Delhomme plays down the stretch.

With all due respect you are just 100% wrong on that. Even if we pretend that Fox comes back (i would put that at around 20% right now) there is no way in hades that Jake is the guy. Just no way. There are too many other better options out there right now. Give them all of off season and preseason to learn the offense and there is your new qb. Assuming that Cowher comes in, which is the extreme hot rumor now out of Raleigh, then I see Jake at best as the 3rd qb on the roster. His T.O's have not really dried up (1 fumble last game) its just that Fox refuses to put him in a situation where he has to make a throw that he simply cannot make, which leads us to running on 3rd and long. By doing this it condenses the playbook dramatically and makes us one dimensional . It is simply time to put in Moore and evaluate for next year. There is no way we make playoffs this year.