Does Larry Johnson's great success... (1 Viewer)

[Raider Nation]

What I'm getting at is, for years everyone said "You could put ME behind Denver's offensive line, and I'd run for 1,000 yards." Are we to the point now where the same has to be said for running behind Kansas City's terrific O-line?

Holmes was the Stud of Studs. He put up eye-popping numbers. When he went down, Johnson did everything Priest did -- and he did it better! So are they mainly beneficiaries of a great line, or do they both happen to be GREAT running backs?

I'd lean toward the former. Somehow, I don't see either of them rushing for 200 yards in a game if they were employed by the Browns, Jets, Lions or Cardinals.

 

[Family Matters]

What I'm getting at is, for years everyone said "You could put ME behind Denver's offensive line, and I'd run for 1,000 yards." Are we to the point now where the same has to be said for running behind Kansas City's terrific O-line?

Holmes was the Stud of Studs. He put up eye-popping numbers. When he went down, Johnson did everything Priest did -- and he did it better! So are they mainly beneficiaries of a great line, or do they both happen to be GREAT running backs?

I'd lean toward the former. Somehow, I don't see either of them rushing for 200 yards in a game if they were employed by the Browns, Jets, Lions or Cardinals.

Good discussion. Let's be honest, no one could rush for 100, let alone 200 in Detroit. Seriously, there is no way to prove or disprove anything so it'' make for a great debate. But to anyone that followed Holmes career, they were not surprised by his emergence.

I started to follow him when he was in Balt. I was new to FF and I identified him by his AYC and felt he was pretty good. What I couldn't understand is why he was riding the pine with the numbers he was producing. It was a matter of the coach feeling as though Rhett was better. Well we all know what happened.

Then they drafted Lewis and again Holmes was left the oddman out.

So Vermeil picks him up for the KC offense and given the opportunity he absolutely crushed. So I would say he was a big part of it but clearly so is the system. It was a great marriage of sorts.

Similar situation with TD and Portis and Denver. Clearly Portis hasn't been the same but he's still good. Different system means slightly different results. But systems like Demver and KC are RB's dreams for sure.

 

[Raider Nation]

What I'm getting at is, for years everyone said "You could put ME behind Denver's offensive line, and I'd run for 1,000 yards." Are we to the point now where the same has to be said for running behind Kansas City's terrific O-line?

Holmes was the Stud of Studs. He put up eye-popping numbers. When he went down, Johnson did everything Priest did -- and he did it better! So are they mainly beneficiaries of a great line, or do they both happen to be GREAT running backs?

I'd lean toward the former. Somehow, I don't see either of them rushing for 200 yards in a game if they were employed by the Browns, Jets, Lions or Cardinals.

But to anyone that followed Holmes career, they were not surprised by his emergence.I started to follow him when he was in Balt. I was new to FF and I identified him by his AYC and felt he was pretty good. What I couldn't understand is why he was riding the pine with the numbers he was producing.

Yep. As you'll see below, Priest's YPC in Baltimore are comparable with his numbers in Kansas City, though he had many fewer attempts.

+--------------------------+-------------------------+                 |          Rushing         |        Receiving        |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| Year  TM |   G |   Att  Yards    Y/A   TD |   Rec  Yards   Y/R   TD |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+| 1997 bal |   7 |     0      0    0.0    0 |     0      0   0.0    0 || 1998 bal |  16 |   233   1008    4.3    7 |    43    260   6.0    0 || 1999 bal |   8 |    89    506    5.7    1 |    13    104   8.0    1 || 2000 bal |  16 |   137    588    4.3    2 |    32    221   6.9    0 || 2001 kan |  16 |   327   1555    4.8    8 |    62    614   9.9    2 || 2002 kan |  14 |   313   1615    5.2   21 |    70    672   9.6    3 || 2003 kan |  16 |   320   1420    4.4   27 |    74    690   9.3    0 || 2004 kan |   8 |   196    892    4.6   14 |    19    187   9.8    1 || 2005 kan |   7 |   119    451    3.8    6 |    21    197   9.4    1 |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+|  TOTAL   | 108 |  1734   8035    4.6   86 |   334   2945   8.8    8 |+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

 

[faulkfan]

The only way we would ever know if these guys are a product of the system is if they went somewhere else, had the same opportunites, and their production fell off. Even then, there are other variables that can be considered such as play calling and surrounding cast not on the OL, which makes it extremely difficult to prove one way or the other.

When you look at Denver the thing that sticks out is the impact, or lack thereof, of RBs who were shining stars for the Broncos but disappeared when they left the mile high city. Orlandis Gary is at the top of this list. However, he never received the full work load that he got in his best year in Denver and he had had an injury to heal from as well. Portis has been decent in Washington, and Droughns has surprised everyone in Cleveland, so maybe the RBs deserve more credit than they have gotten in the past.

To the specific topic of Holmes and Johnson. Derrick Blaylock, although to nowhere near the magnitude of Johnson, looked pretty good running in KC and I don't think he's all that great of a RB. I think both Holmes and LJ are above average RBs who also greatly benefit from the offense they play in. I honestly think that if you put Thomas Jones or Kevin Jones in the KC offense they would put up 1600 yds and 15-20 TDs.

 

[doomsdaydoc]

with this in mind, I think it will be very interesting to see how Edgerrin James does in a Cardinals uniform. I think Larry Johnson is a very good back and might be great. He certainly benefits from the system he is in and if you put him on the worst team in the league, of course his production would drop. I am sure LT would not be so good in a really lousy system either. This is a tough one to really judge.

 

[Raider Nation]

To the specific topic of Holmes and Johnson. Derrick Blaylock, although to nowhere near the magnitude of Johnson, looked pretty good running in KC and I don't think he's all that great of a RB. I think both Holmes and LJ are above average RBs who also greatly benefit from the offense they play in. I honestly think that if you put Thomas Jones or Kevin Jones in the KC offense they would put up 1600 yds and 15-20 TDs.

It can be argued that opportunity is as important as ability. If the Colts took Ryan Leaf in '98 instead of Peyton Manning, I'm not sure he wouldn't be a star right now.

(I'm serious...)

 

[Raider Nation]

with this in mind, I think it will be very interesting to see how Edgerrin James does in a Cardinals uniform.

Bingo. Edge's results will go a long way in deciding an argument such as this one.James was great, but he had an outstanding O-line in Indy.

Can he still be great with a fairly awful O-line in Arizona?

The supporting cast at WR is pretty much a wash.

Harrison/Wayne :: Boldin/Fitzgerald

 

[TS Garp]

It can be argued that opportunity is as important as ability. If the Colts took Ryan Leaf in '98 instead of Peyton Manning, I'm not sure he wouldn't be a star right now.(I'm serious...)

So the Chargers are to blame for Ryan Leaf being arguably the biggest draft bust ever, and if Manning would've gone to the Chargers instead of the Colts, he would've been out of the league in a couple of years? You really believe that?

 

[Raider Nation]

It can be argued that opportunity is as important as ability. If the Colts took Ryan Leaf in '98 instead of Peyton Manning, I'm not sure he wouldn't be a star right now.

(I'm serious...)

So the Chargers are to blame for Ryan Leaf being arguably the biggest draft bust ever, and if Manning would've gone to the Chargers instead of the Colts, he would've been out of the league in a couple of years? You really believe that?

Don't put words in my mouth. Manning would be a star no matter where he plays.My comment was about Leaf. Things went from bad to worse for him in San Diego in record time. He played poorly, then got into the beef with the media because of his poor play, then stopped talking to the media entirely. He earned the wrath of the fans and his teammates, and must have felt like the world was against him.

If Leaf was the 1st pick instead of the 2nd, and got to play in a solid organization with the same offensive talent Manning was blessed with, things certainly might have gone differently for him. By Leaf's third year, he was a head case and it was pretty much over for him. I'm not saying he would definitely have been a star in Indy... I'm saying he would have had more of a fighting chance.

 

[10993]

Yes.

 

[LHUCKS]

Yes

This is why Corey Dillon would make the LHUCKS Hall of Fame and Terry Bradshaw would not.

 

[Pots]

Simply put. KC Starting RB = Fantasy Gold.

 

[David Yudkin]

Holmes averaged 136 combined yards per game in KC. Edgerrin James holds the career all-time record at just under 126 total yards per game. So Holmes had a 10 yard advantage vs all time production levels.

However, his 83 TD in 61 games was the really insane statistic that put Holmes over the top and then some. (1.36 per game).

By comparison, Shaun Alexander has scored 98 TD in 80 games as a starter (1.22 per game) and LT has scored 80 TD in 79 games.

Comparing Holmes to Johnson, Holmes scored 83 times in 1521 = 1 in every 18,3 touches. Johnson has scored 33 TD in 532 touches = 1 every 16.1 touches.

If Johnson can keep up his success, IMO Holmes accomplishments will start to get devalued.

 

[B. Nugget]

All of the guys in my keeper league are KC Homers, one guy has season tix, etc... so we all have a vested interest in all things KC related on Sundays in the fall. Before LJ took off his diapers, we were all saying things like "Keep whining about playing time and then get shipped off to play for Arizona (or whoever sucked at the time) and see how good you are. Priest is the man, how can you complain about playing behind a living legend?"

Now we are thinking maybe it did have a little something to do with the line for Priest. LJ is a freaking beast and could have been a stud in Arizona, but is an Elite player behind that line and the scary thing is that we haven't even seen him play a full season yet. Completely different way of thinking, and formal apologies have been issued.

I think the thing that has helped LJ go from 3rd string to Elite status in such a short time is that he got to learn from Priest, it has been said several times that he is much more patient hitting the holes now than he was when he came into the league. He used to run into the back of the linemen's legs and fall down, now he waits a fraction of a second longer for the hole to open up and is gone. Priest deserves a lot of the credit for making LJ a better player.

It has been an amazing ride watching the changing of the guard in KC.

B. Nugget

 

[Aaronur]

Sure the numbers are great there but Joe Montana and Steve Young were great QB's even though the played for a great Niner O but they are both HOF. I think the same can be said for Priest and Johnson just because they put up big numbers one after another doesn't make them not great players.