Does Post Season Play Affect Your Opinion Of Regular Season Award Winn (1 Viewer)

[Joe Bryant]

This came up in some of the Revis vs Woodson talk.

Some people seem to feel that an award like MVP or Defensive Player of the Year should be looked at only within the context of the regular season. Obviously, for players that don't make the playoffs, this is the only option. But because most players in this discussion are on good teams, they often have post season play for us to see as well.

These "regular season only" folks seem to think that once a guy wins an in season award, his post season play should have no bearing at all on how we view that regular season award.

Other people (myself included) tend to allow post season play to affect how we feel about them winning the regular season award. The example I used was if Peyton Manning goes out this week and throws 6 INT, 0 TDs and loses the game, while Drew Brees goes out and throws for 450 yards, 5 TDs and 0 INT, I'm going to think Manning deserved the MVP a little less than I do right now. Not enough to say he shouldn't have won, but I'm going to think he deserved it a little less.

What do you think?

J

 

[Jeremy]

Those awards indicate who had the best regular season. I'm confused as to why post season should matter. The awards aren't even saying who the best player is, but rather who performed the best from week 1 through week 17. The playoffs are a whole seperate season for all intents and purposes.

Or are you asking if the awards should awarded after the Superbowl with the playoffs being a factor?

Anyway I'm sure the voting will go almost exactly the same as the "who should have been the DPOY?" poll.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Those awards indicate who had the best regular season. I'm confused as to why post season should matter. The awards aren't even saying who the best player is, but rather who performed the best from week 1 through week 17. The playoffs are a whole seperate season for all intents and purposes. Or are you asking if the awards should awarded after the Superbowl with the playoffs being a factor? Anyway I'm sure the voting will go almost exactly the same as the "who should have been the DPOY?" poll.

No, Jeremy. I'm not saying we should wait until the Super Bowl to vote.I'm asking folks if the post season affects their opinion of how deserving the guy was for his in season award. J

 

[Tau837]

Voted yes. Personally, I'd be fine with waiting until the postseason is over and then voting on the awards on the season's entire body of work. This would mean there would be no concept of regular season MVP vs. postseason MVP... just MVP.

And your example is a pretty good one. IMO the margin of victory in the MVP voting is not really reflective of the fact that a few others, such as Rivers, Favre, and Brees, were also justifiably in the discussion. If Manning has a bad game and the Colts get bounced this weekend, and Favre leads the Vikings to a championship while playing well for 3 games... or Rivers does... or Brees does... in the big picture, it is that player who was the season's MVP, not Manning.

 

[Jeremy]

Those awards indicate who had the best regular season. I'm confused as to why post season should matter. The awards aren't even saying who the best player is, but rather who performed the best from week 1 through week 17. The playoffs are a whole seperate season for all intents and purposes. Or are you asking if the awards should awarded after the Superbowl with the playoffs being a factor? Anyway I'm sure the voting will go almost exactly the same as the "who should have been the DPOY?" poll.

No, Jeremy. I'm not saying we should wait until the Super Bowl to vote.I'm asking folks if the post season affects their opinion of how deserving the guy was for his in season award. J

Ok, that's what I thought, and why I'm still confused. The award takes into account performance from week 1-17. A guy can win a regular season award and then completely wet the bed in the playoffs. Again, it's performance that they're measuring and for that period of time ONLY. You can say Revis is a better player, but Woodson had a better year.

 

[Tau837]

Those awards indicate who had the best regular season. I'm confused as to why post season should matter. The awards aren't even saying who the best player is, but rather who performed the best from week 1 through week 17. The playoffs are a whole seperate season for all intents and purposes.

Or are you asking if the awards should awarded after the Superbowl with the playoffs being a factor?

Anyway I'm sure the voting will go almost exactly the same as the "who should have been the DPOY?" poll.

No, Jeremy. I'm not saying we should wait until the Super Bowl to vote.I'm asking folks if the post season affects their opinion of how deserving the guy was for his in season award.

J

Ok, that's what I thought, and why I'm still confused. The award takes into account performance from week 1-17. A guy can win a regular season award and then completely wet the bed in the playoffs. Again, it's performance that they're measuring and for that period of time ONLY. You can say Revis is a better player, but Woodson had a better year.

IMO Revis had a better season, whether or not we include their postseason games. (It certainly becomes more pronounced if we do.) But that's for the other thread.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Those awards indicate who had the best regular season. I'm confused as to why post season should matter. The awards aren't even saying who the best player is, but rather who performed the best from week 1 through week 17. The playoffs are a whole seperate season for all intents and purposes. Or are you asking if the awards should awarded after the Superbowl with the playoffs being a factor? Anyway I'm sure the voting will go almost exactly the same as the "who should have been the DPOY?" poll.

No, Jeremy. I'm not saying we should wait until the Super Bowl to vote.I'm asking folks if the post season affects their opinion of how deserving the guy was for his in season award. J

Ok, that's what I thought, and why I'm still confused. The award takes into account performance from week 1-17. A guy can win a regular season award and then completely wet the bed in the playoffs. Again, it's performance that they're measuring and for that period of time ONLY. You can say Revis is a better player, but Woodson had a better year.

No need to be confused. You just fall into the camp of "week 1-17 is all that matters and the playoffs have zero impact on whether I think the guy deserved the award more or less". That's fine.J

 

[FUBAR]

Those awards indicate who had the best regular season. I'm confused as to why post season should matter. The awards aren't even saying who the best player is, but rather who performed the best from week 1 through week 17. The playoffs are a whole seperate season for all intents and purposes. Or are you asking if the awards should awarded after the Superbowl with the playoffs being a factor? Anyway I'm sure the voting will go almost exactly the same as the "who should have been the DPOY?" poll.

No, Jeremy. I'm not saying we should wait until the Super Bowl to vote.I'm asking folks if the post season affects their opinion of how deserving the guy was for his in season award. J

the award itself? It does however impact what I think about the player going forward or how good his entire year was.Let's say Peyton goes 10/40, 0 TDs, 5 INTs this weekend. You ask me next summer what I think of Peyton's performance last year and I'll mention it, you ask me if he deserved the MVP and I won't mention it.

 

[Mr.Pack]

This came up in some of the Revis vs Woodson talk.Some people seem to feel that an award like MVP or Defensive Player of the Year should be looked at only within the context of the regular season. Obviously, for players that don't make the playoffs, this is the only option. But because most players in this discussion are on good teams, they often have post season play for us to see as well.These "regular season only" folks seem to think that once a guy wins an in season award, his post season play should have no bearing at all on how we view that regular season award.Other people (myself included) tend to allow post season play to affect how we feel about them winning the regular season award. The example I used was if Peyton Manning goes out this week and throws 6 INT, 0 TDs and loses the game, while Drew Brees goes out and throws for 450 yards, 5 TDs and 0 INT, I'm going to think Manning deserved the MVP a little less than I do right now. Not enough to say he shouldn't have won, but I'm going to think he deserved it a little less.What do you think?J

Let's try this.......If one of your boat salesmen sold 500 boats in a calendar year and was named Salesman of the Year". But one of those months he only sold 5, would you think less of him as "Salesman of the Year"?

 

[Ghost Rider]

Of course not.

The awards are for the regular season. If the postseason affected things, Peyton Manning would probably still be in search of his first MVP award.

 

[MDSkinner]

Let's try this.......If one of your boat salesmen sold 500 boats in a calendar year and was named Salesman of the Year". But one of those months he only sold 5, would you think less of him as "Salesman of the Year"?

This is a fair analogy but just to continue down that path, what if the boat company described here were in a situation where they needed to sell 100 units or they were done and the Salesman of the year only did 5 (when he was averaging 50 the other months) that month where another salesman who was also averaging close to 48 sold 95 for that special month to help save the company. The two were close before...but I would say that special month puts the 48 guy over the top even though the rest of the year he was just slightly under.Not to say that this is the exact scenario but to be fair the Playoff games are one and done and certainly looked at as more important.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Let's try it this way for some.

Purely hypothetical situation.

Revis and Woodson are thought to be neck and neck for the DPOY as the regular season ends.

Revis goes up against Ochocinco and gets completely torched. Ochocinco and Palmer go off and Bengals win.

Woodson goes up against Fitzgerald and plays the game of his life. 2 Interceptions, one for a TD, and completely shuts down ARZ WRs he's covering.

Today Revis wins Defensive Player Of The Year.

Everyone good with that?

The game Sunday had no effect on anything?

J

 

[Ghost Rider]

The game Sunday had no effect on anything?

Nope. That is why they are regular season awards. What if Philly had won at Dallas on Saturday? Would they have gone back and given Philly the NFC East crown? Of course not.

 

[Mr.Pack]

The game Sunday had no effect on anything?

Nope. That is why they are regular season awards. What if Philly had won at Dallas on Saturday? Would they have gone back and given Philly the NFC East crown? Of course not.

 

[Joe Bryant]

The game Sunday had no effect on anything?

Nope. That is why they are regular season awards.

Cool. J

 

[IDrinkyourMilkshake]

It shouldn't but it probably does.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

This came up in some of the Revis vs Woodson talk.Some people seem to feel that an award like MVP or Defensive Player of the Year should be looked at only within the context of the regular season. Obviously, for players that don't make the playoffs, this is the only option. But because most players in this discussion are on good teams, they often have post season play for us to see as well.These "regular season only" folks seem to think that once a guy wins an in season award, his post season play should have no bearing at all on how we view that regular season award.Other people (myself included) tend to allow post season play to affect how we feel about them winning the regular season award. The example I used was if Peyton Manning goes out this week and throws 6 INT, 0 TDs and loses the game, while Drew Brees goes out and throws for 450 yards, 5 TDs and 0 INT, I'm going to think Manning deserved the MVP a little less than I do right now. Not enough to say he shouldn't have won, but I'm going to think he deserved it a little less.What do you think?J

I think people need to understand what the award is and what it means. If you understand that the defensive player of the year is for the regular season, then how can you let yourself be influenced by the post season? One has nothing to do with the other. If it makes you feel better, have a post season MVP or a post season defensive player of the year. If the award is for defensive player of the regular season, then that's what it is. If you play fantasy football and your Championship is in WEEK 16 and you win it that week but in Week 17 your same team wouldn't have beaten the team you just played in Week 16 (season is over but you happened to keep track for giggles), does that make your team any less? Of course not, it's all about understanding what the award is they're receiving.Pittsburgh won the SB last year but didn't make the playoffs this year, are they considered any less for that?Now, if you wanted to make an argument about waiting till after the SB for the league MVP or Defensive player of the year, I might even agree with you on that. HOwever, until they do that, what they do in post season has no reflection on a regular season award.....it's very black and white.The selection of MVP of the regular season or Defensive player of the regular season doesn't need to be vindicated in the post season. It's highly likely sometimes that they will because obviously the winner of those awards are pretty good players. I am a horse track guy. I've bet and won/loss races between 2 horses that won by a nose that given day. They won that day, nothing we can do will ever change that. However, the next time out the horse that lost may win by a nose. That doesn't take the other win away from the first horse.If Charles Woodson was the best defensive player in the regular season, then so be it. It doesn't mean he will be during the regular season nor does he have to be to have earned the regular season defensive player of the year.Ok, I'm done with the analogies We just may disagree or have a difference of opinion on this topic and that's OK!

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Yeah, because what we need in this sport is more people overreacting to a tiny subset of games, or even a single game, amongst a season full of many.

All this would do is change the award to whomever won the Super Bowl MVP on both sides of the ball.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Yeah, because what we need in this sport is more people overreacting to a tiny subset of games, or even a single game, amongst a season full of many.All this would do is change the award to whomever won the Super Bowl MVP on both sides of the ball.

I don't think anyone here is calling for a change in the voting deadline.Just talking about the results of the voting.J

 

[Joe Bryant]

This came up in some of the Revis vs Woodson talk.Some people seem to feel that an award like MVP or Defensive Player of the Year should be looked at only within the context of the regular season. Obviously, for players that don't make the playoffs, this is the only option. But because most players in this discussion are on good teams, they often have post season play for us to see as well.These "regular season only" folks seem to think that once a guy wins an in season award, his post season play should have no bearing at all on how we view that regular season award.Other people (myself included) tend to allow post season play to affect how we feel about them winning the regular season award. The example I used was if Peyton Manning goes out this week and throws 6 INT, 0 TDs and loses the game, while Drew Brees goes out and throws for 450 yards, 5 TDs and 0 INT, I'm going to think Manning deserved the MVP a little less than I do right now. Not enough to say he shouldn't have won, but I'm going to think he deserved it a little less.What do you think?J

Let's try this.......If one of your boat salesmen sold 500 boats in a calendar year and was named Salesman of the Year". But one of those months he only sold 5, would you think less of him as "Salesman of the Year"?

That's not a close analogy at all.Better would be a salesman A that sells 500 cars a year and is named salesman of the year at the end of December. Salesman B sold 475 cars. And January of the following year is your biggest most important month of the year. In January, the biggest month of the year, salesman A sells 5 cars and salesman B sells 50 cars.Do I wonder if I made the right call naming salesman A salesman of the year? Yes. Do I think maybe he deserved the salesman of the year award less than I did last month? Yes.I don't take the award away. The award is for the past year. But it definitely makes me wonder if I chose correctly on a subjective award like that. J

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

This came up in some of the Revis vs Woodson talk.Some people seem to feel that an award like MVP or Defensive Player of the Year should be looked at only within the context of the regular season. Obviously, for players that don't make the playoffs, this is the only option. But because most players in this discussion are on good teams, they often have post season play for us to see as well.These "regular season only" folks seem to think that once a guy wins an in season award, his post season play should have no bearing at all on how we view that regular season award.Other people (myself included) tend to allow post season play to affect how we feel about them winning the regular season award. The example I used was if Peyton Manning goes out this week and throws 6 INT, 0 TDs and loses the game, while Drew Brees goes out and throws for 450 yards, 5 TDs and 0 INT, I'm going to think Manning deserved the MVP a little less than I do right now. Not enough to say he shouldn't have won, but I'm going to think he deserved it a little less.What do you think?J

Let's try this.......If one of your boat salesmen sold 500 boats in a calendar year and was named Salesman of the Year". But one of those months he only sold 5, would you think less of him as "Salesman of the Year"?

That's not a close analogy at all.Better would be a salesman A that sells 500 cars a year and is named salesman of the year at the end of December. Salesman B sold 475 cars. And January of the following year is your biggest most important month of the year. In January, the biggest month of the year, salesman A sells 5 cars and salesman B sells 50 cars.Do I wonder if I made the right call naming salesman A salesman of the year? Yes. Do I think maybe he deserved the salesman of the year award less than I did last month? Yes.I don't take the award away. The award is for the past year. But it definitely changes how I feel about a subjective award like that. J

Seems like a pretty fair analogy. It would make me question if either: a) my "top" salesman was lucky the previous year, b) my "top" salesman had lost his motivation, c) my "top" salesman got unlucky in January of the new year.It would definitely make me ask a few questions, but until knowing the answers, I wouldn't have a conclusion.

 

[Rovers]

It isn't an MVP award, and I think MVP should include the playoffs. It's almost impossible to be in the running for MVP if the player's team is not playoff bound.

Unfortunately, the offensive and defensive players of the year are often treated like MVP awards. Chris Johnson, no doubt in my mind is OPY, hands down. But, he isn't the MVP, and that isn't close either. I think some of the voters for DPOY also look at the award as an MVP type of award. I think that is why Woodson won by such a large margin. I would agrue that Revis is DPOY but Woodson was defensive MVP. With all eyes on Revis this week, there may be some voters who would have liked to have voted differently if Revis does something to win the game with a dominating performance, in whatever shape or form that might come.

The thought process behind the Player of the Year awards automatically rule out DT's and offensive linemen, no matter how good they are. There is something wrong with that... namely, the DPOY is just another MVP award. That's why college players have lineman and LB awards. Only the glory positions have a chance at winning.

If the NFL awarded regular season DPOY and Defensive MVP awards, it might level the playing field a bit. I also have my doubts about the people who get to vote, and that goes for the HoF as well, in any sport.

 

[Jason Wood]

They're regular season awards voted on before the postseason. How on Earth could/should the postseason impact them in any way?

 

[Joe Bryant]

They're regular season awards voted on before the postseason. How on Earth could/should the postseason impact them in any way?

Impacted in the way they're thought about. Of course they can't impact the actual award.Does a great or terrible performance in the postseason make one think the player deserved the inseason award a little more or less.J

 

[Jason Wood]

They're regular season awards voted on before the postseason. How on Earth could/should the postseason impact them in any way?

Impacted in the way they're thought about. Of course they can't impact the actual award.Does a great or terrible performance in the postseason make one think the player deserved the inseason award a little more or less.J

I can see how it might, and maybe at one point it did. But speaking personally, it has no bearing anymore. But truth be told, the significance of these awards has very little meaning to me anymore either. Usually there are a number of deserving players who could justifiably receive the award, and for better or worse they're totally based on what's done in the regular season. I just don't get that worked up anymore about whether Player X "deserves" the award over Player Y.

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

It definitely affects how I view the award winner...but I know that's flawed reasoning on my part. It shouldn't, really.

I don't think it's fair to judge some players on 18 or 19 games, but others on 16. I think the regular season is where everyone plays and all players-- even Rams-- get a chance to shine. That's why I'm impressed with Steven Jackson, who played hurt as long as he could despite the team's season being over in October.

But if a guy wins an award and then bombs in the post-season, sure-- I'll judge him to be somewhat less deserving. But really, I shouldn't. He won the award and deserved it. There's enough on the line in the playoffs that the award's validity shouldn't matter anymore.