ROBOPUNTER
Footballguy
that's a silly analogy. What if Reid is a polygamist?Yep. Career decision. You marry your QB. Reid divorced McNabb and gave Kolb the ring. If he fails badly this year he is a goner along with Kolb.
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Does Vick put Kolb on the bench concussion or not? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Tchula
- Start date
delusional
Footballguy
Because Vick can run the ball? Brilliant, if we only had a position where a player would run the ball from and thru the line of scrimmage and had that player do it 15-20 times a game. HmmReid game planning to an opponents weakness? NEVER!
delusional
Footballguy
I don't think so. The front office wanted to move McNabb before last season. Reid didn't. Reid is here for 3 years ( his extension ) after that then who knows but they need to bring in a O.C. to groom for the HC job ( unless they promote from within for the HC....Jauron anyone? )Yep. Career decision. You marry your QB. Reid divorced McNabb and gave Kolb the ring. If he fails badly this year he is a goner along with Kolb.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
Time will tell but I don't honestly see it that way, unless Kolb is a productive QB. If he's not, I suspect Andy and the Eagles will "mutually" part ways after this season.
Vick rushed 7 times in the second half. He threw the ball 24 times.
ponchsox
Footballguy
Because they were losing. While Kolb was in there, I thought Vick would come in on 3rd and short and maybe goal line situations. It was like the QB shuffle yesterday. Very confusing.
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Todem
Footballguy
Yeah but people get enamored when he takes off (I do too guilty as charged) He is very exciting to watch play no question. But his accuracy on simple throws can be really bad. He is eractic as a passer and that is what has kept him from being an elite QB. But he makes a lot of great plays with his legs like no other QB. Steve Young, Cunningham, Tark, they were all great, but Michael Vick is very special as a running QB. In fact he is electric. But it can only take a team so far before he always seems to make that critical bad throw or decision.
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KnowledgeReignsSupreme
Footballguy
Is Reid's job really in jeopardy over this? He's one of the most successful coaches in the league.
Nightly Mistake
Footballguy
I don't see that happening this year. Next year maybe, but I think he's safe for this season.
KnowledgeReignsSupreme
Footballguy
You watch him play yesterday?
Jason Wood
Zoo York
It's all degrees. If Kolb is completely terrible and the Eagles take a big step back, then I think he'll leave but not necessarily because he's forced out, but because there are plenty of other teams that would love to have him and it'll be a clean break versus bringing in a new QB and having another rebuilding process. But if Kolb is good but not great, but shows growth over the season, I think all will remain intact for 2011. And obviously if Kolb is a budding star and leads them to a playoff push (if not a playoff berth), Reid won't leave.
it's early enough that he can file for an Annulment.
ROBOPUNTER
Footballguy
Did Kolb have to sign a pre-nup? Are they going to split custody of the kids? What about the beach house in FL? Does Kolb get alimony? Could Reid telling Kolb to go back out there after his concussion count as domestic abuse?Todem, we need answers to these questions. Come baaaaaaack.....
Nightly Mistake
Footballguy
Kolb never adopted the kids because, you know, they're in prison.
Insein
Footballguy
Exactly. The gameplan had failure written on the cover. The moment they decided that moving Vick in and out of the game like some crackpot madden game decided the outcome of this contest. Andy! Say it with me now. I will RUN THE FOOTBALL...with my RUNNING BACK!!!!JetMaxx said:
Stats without context.He looked awful in the NO game where he chucked like 50 passes and threw picks like they were going out of style.he had a good game vs a horrendous KC team who had packed it in for the season.He wasn't some superstar in those 2 games, just using the passing numbers doesn't tell the story.JetMaxx said:
Nightly Mistake
Footballguy
Andy, also say this - "The wildcat only works when I substitute personnel into the game who are ordinarily in the game with normal formations."
TommyGilmore
Footballguy
Plus, it's not like they had a whole lot of game film on Kolb. You could argue that they were better prepared for Vick than they were for Kolb.
Insein
Footballguy
Used as a wildcat for a few plays at a time. They had no plan for him running wild.
chinawildman
Footballguy
Vick simply looked like a better PASSER than Kolb yesterday. If he was not throwing well and simply running around, this whole "controversy" wouldn't be much of a controversy at all.
KnowledgeReignsSupreme
Footballguy
Something ironic about your post here.JetMaxx said:
KnowledgeReignsSupreme
Footballguy
They definitely weren't prepared for the upgrade Vick 2.1 Gold Edition with improved passing ability.
My insider says he will not play this weekend.
Nightly Mistake
Footballguy
Andy Herron?
KnowledgeReignsSupreme
Footballguy
Not exactly setting the bar very high.ONE GAME guys, it's been ONE GAME
Vick will start against the Lions, he'll do worse than everyone expected (or he'll get hurt) and Kolb will get his job back (like his coach said he would) and will play a lot better than he did this week.
shader
Footballguy
The Eagles need to trade Vick ASAP if they want to avoid a horribly controversial year.Vick is going to come out and steamroll Detroit, and Eagles fans aren't going to give Kolb a chance to grow into the starting role. I'm convinced that if Andy Reid made this announcement today "Michael Vick is now our starting QB", and began designing an offense around him, McCoy, Desean and Maclin...The Eagles would make the playoffs.Their defense played really well against Green Bay, and Vick is a winner. Also, the rest of the NFC East is full of flawed teams (despite the hype). But he won't do that. He'll stick with Kolb and Philly will win 6-7 games.
Kev4029
Footballguy
I think Vick really got screwed, from a football standpoint, when Reeves left and Jim Mora Jr was brought in as head coach. JMJ thought that he could make Vick much more of a pocket passer than he was and made him look like a fraction of the talent that Reeves had showcased. If Reid game plans around Vick's talent, which by the looks of the second half on Sunday he can and will, Vick will be very successful as long as hes in the lineup. Vick looks much more athletic than he did last year, and it seems as if he is close to the athletic talent he was pre prison. As a fan with no cheering interest one way or another for the Eagles, I hope Vick continues to get the starts because he makes the game much more fun to watch, for better or worse.
As a fantasy football owner who waited to long to grab a 2nd QB (2QB league), I'll be trying to pick up Vick this week as he should post around 200 passing/50 yards rushing and a TD which should destroy anything else currently on my roster.
As a fantasy football owner who waited to long to grab a 2nd QB (2QB league), I'll be trying to pick up Vick this week as he should post around 200 passing/50 yards rushing and a TD which should destroy anything else currently on my roster.
Breesisdaman
Footballguy
Lets see how Vick does when a defense actually has a week to game plan for his style of play. I think there is a reason he was #2 behind Kolb and Andy Reid knows his team better than we do.
Clifford
Footballguy
OK, this thread just went way off the deep end. Vick may have won some games, but dude is far from a "winner"
The Eagles need to trade Vick ASAP if they want to avoid a horribly controversial year.
Vick is going to come out and steamroll Detroit, and Eagles fans aren't going to give Kolb a chance to grow into the starting role.
I'm convinced that if Andy Reid made this announcement today "Michael Vick is now our starting QB", and began designing an offense around him, McCoy, Desean and Maclin...The Eagles would make the playoffs.
Their defense played really well against Green Bay, and Vick is a winner. Also, the rest of the NFC East is full of flawed teams (despite the hype).
But he won't do that. He'll stick with Kolb and Philly will win 6-7 games.
well, I guess we will see one way or another. This is Vicks Chance to show he can still start.
I have my questions about Kolb like everyone else, but I dont think they are gonna bench him when he was the reason they traded McNabb away.
That would be like saying 'we made a mistake' and teams dont like to admit these things.... At least not so soon after the trade happened anyways.
So Vick may start, but Kolbs job wont be in danger unless Vick Seriously blows the doors off in terms of production. (ie. 300+ yards passing with no INT's) for 2 games in a row.
Given the Defense they are playing... it could happen in week 1. I dont know if I'd bet on it happening 2 weeks in a row...
either way, stranger things have happened.
I have my questions about Kolb like everyone else, but I dont think they are gonna bench him when he was the reason they traded McNabb away.
That would be like saying 'we made a mistake' and teams dont like to admit these things.... At least not so soon after the trade happened anyways.
So Vick may start, but Kolbs job wont be in danger unless Vick Seriously blows the doors off in terms of production. (ie. 300+ yards passing with no INT's) for 2 games in a row.
Given the Defense they are playing... it could happen in week 1. I dont know if I'd bet on it happening 2 weeks in a row...
either way, stranger things have happened.
TommyGilmore
Footballguy
Hometown fans crack me up. First off, teams don't trade players in mid-season. Second, Kolb is one concussion away from missing major time. And third, the only other quarterback on the Eagles roster is a rookie. Why would you want to take such a huge risk just because you can't handle a little controversy?Besides, the only way this team will have a Quarterback Controversy is if Kolb plays poorly. And if Kolb plays poorly then maybe he shouldn't be the team's quarterback anyway?
delusional
Footballguy
The consensus on why they got Vick in the first place was to bring him in, showcase him a bit then try and get a mid round pick for him. That was a while ago though. Seems everything Reid planned to do is backfiring big time.
TommyGilmore
Footballguy
If you are so high on "game planning" then you should be worried about Kolb because the Packers dismantled him after "game planning" for him.
Nightly Mistake
Footballguy
. . . in week 1 with one of the best pass rushes and sets of DB's in the NFL. Certainly, week 1 was a red flag for Kolb owners, but he didn't even get a chance to improve during the course of the game as he settled in as many NFL QB's do.TommyGilmore said:
Insein
Footballguy
Reid handcuffed him...with Vick. QB by committee is cute for FF but it doesn't work in the NFL. You don't rotate QB's every 3rd play. You don't say the start of the Kevin Kolb era begins with Michael vick under center to "outsmart" the defense. Andy is constantly trying to outsmart everyone. Just play football!!! Is that so hard? We actually have some decent talent that can do that. Run the ball at least 40% of the time and you'll see the pass plays work. Its beyond ridiculous the pass/run ratio. We've been screaming that for years. The only reason it worked was McNabb running like a maniac. Vick survived because he ran like a maniac.
Andy Reid is the hardest defense Kolb has to overcome. He needs a chance to do it though.
Andy Reid is the hardest defense Kolb has to overcome. He needs a chance to do it though.
I think Vick's off field issues and 3 years without people seeing him play have made you forget how effective Vick was as a qb. Teams gameplanned against Vick for 4 years and the only team to even somewhat contain him was Tampa with their fast LB's. His receivers were absolutely HORRIBLE and couldnt get seperation. Many of his runs were scrambles where other qb's would have thrown it away or taken the sack. He has a cannon for an arm and could throw on the run better than any qb in the league. You put Vick on any team in the league and they will go at worst 5-11 as he will win 5 or 6 games by himself. Vick was argubly the most exciting player to watch ever. Vicks problem was always consistency as he would lose you 2 or 3 games by himself also with costly turnovers and games where his accuracy was terrible. After Reeves left, he never received proper coaching or game plans that played to is strengths. He never had weapons anywhere close to what he has in Philly or offensive coaches as good. Vick admitted that he didnt work as hard as he should have in Atlanta and no longer takes the game for granted. Vick seems to be back to at least 90% of his former athleticism. If he has improved his work habits and consistency, he could be back to Pro Bowl caliber play.Right now, Vick would make teams like 49ers, Jets, Cardinals, and Panthers all have a better shot at playoff success. Granted it was only one half but Vick is back and will be a starter in this league next year.
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CaptainHook
Footballguy
he looked very good in both games. 2 of the 3 picks were very late in the game when the team was already well behind.
Insein
Footballguy
I'd go between Cowher and Chucky. Both would be a breath of fresh air in this town.
Insein
Footballguy
KC packed it in for the season in week 3? Thats giving up a little early.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
Why on Earth would Philly trade Vick if he plays well?
Kolb's concussion is evidence of why Vick is so important to the team. We would be looking at a rookie project in Mike Kafka as our starter.
Trading Vick midseason to Buffalo only happens in fantasy boardrooms, not real NFL personnel offices.
Kolb's concussion is evidence of why Vick is so important to the team. We would be looking at a rookie project in Mike Kafka as our starter.
Trading Vick midseason to Buffalo only happens in fantasy boardrooms, not real NFL personnel offices.
Insein
Footballguy
Just do it! In all seriousness though, it comes down to can we win the Super Bowl this year with Vick? The answer is a resounding no. So why not have everyone take a step back and relax. Lets let Kolb get a full season to see if he can play or not (WITHOUT THE FREAKIN WILDCAT) and then we can see if we need to spend a draft pick on a QB for the future.Why on Earth would Philly trade Vick if he plays well?
Nightly Mistake
Footballguy
Say it with me: your offensive ceiling is limited when your QB's legs are your best weapon. Fully realized offenses that have the capacity to consistently put up 25-30+ ppg are run to a large extent through their WR's. If your QB doesn't have the ability to find those WR's consistently, then your offense will be limited. There's no good argument against this. Unless you have a defense like the 2000 Ravens or the 1985 Bears, you're just not going to win championships with that. Why were Vick's legs the team's best weapon? First, because Vick is a phenomenal athlete. I can actually agree with your statement that Vick was arguably the most exciting player to watch ever in the NFL. Second, however, was because he's a lousy passer. If you take away his running, the idea of him being a starter or even remaining in the league given his passing skills is laughable. Essentially Vick was 2/3 of a complete running back (insofar as you're talking about the team's overall running game) and, at best, 1/2 of a QB. Unfortunately for the Falcons, while they had other RB's to make up the difference, they didn't have anyone else to handle their passing game. The Falcons were more or less built around Vick's unique talents on offense, reminiscent of the way that the Eagles were built around Randall Cunningham. These Eagles, however, are built around a solid O-line, excellent WR's and at least servicable if not above average RB's. Those assets get wasted to a large degree if a guy like Vick is going to still rely upon his legs like he once did. That's why the Eagles will not go with Vick as their starter. They're built to accomplish more than he can provide. Whether Kolb can do it remains to be seen, but a passing QB like he is is what needs to be there for them to realize their potential.
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Nightly Mistake
Footballguy
Why on Earth would Philly trade Vick if he plays well?Kolb's concussion is evidence of why Vick is so important to the team. We would be looking at a rookie project in Mike Kafka as our starter. Trading Vick midseason to Buffalo only happens in fantasy boardrooms, not real NFL personnel offices.
Vick's an ideal backup QB, or an ideal starter on a team with a poor offense lacking a playmaker (e.g. Buffalo or Oakland). The Eagles need him right now without Kolb.
