Dumb salary question (1 Viewer)

[Sinrman]

Ok, so I don't know much about how salaries work in the NFL. But here goes...

If say Player X is set to make $10 mil in 2009, and were to be cut or traded, he could still count against the cap of the team he was traded from...? I guess it would depend on how the contract is written up. But could a team who wants to trade a player and has that player's blessing re-work his contract where it wouldn't count against the cap and THEN trade him?

 

[-baller]

there's different ways to make $$ in the nfl.

basically, you can make bonus money, standard salary, and guaranteed salary, so it all depends on how the guy's making his 10 mil.

if it's just regular salary and he's cut then it wouldn't count against the cap, which is why you see a lot of guys cut.

if a team pays out a bonus up front on some guy's contract, however, they're on the hook for that cap hit.

for cap purposes, the bonus gets divided up equally over the term of the contract, and when the guy gets cut the team has to take the hit on all remaining 'unpaid' bonus monies, but could possibly divide it between this year and the next depending on when they cut the guy.

 

[Sinrman]

there's different ways to make $$ in the nfl.basically, you can make bonus money, standard salary, and guaranteed salary, so it all depends on how the guy's making his 10 mil.if it's just regular salary and he's cut then it wouldn't count against the cap, which is why you see a lot of guys cut.if a team pays out a bonus up front on some guy's contract, however, they're on the hook for that cap hit.for cap purposes, the bonus gets divided up equally over the term of the contract, and when the guy gets cut the team has to take the hit on all remaining 'unpaid' bonus monies, but could possibly divide it between this year and the next depending on when they cut the guy.

Ahhh, see, I was always under he impression that the "bonus" was all paid up front when they sign. Like a "signing bonus" which was the guaranteed part.Now you mentioned several cases where a player gets cut. Does the same hold true if they are traded? Or would that basically depend on the wording of their contract?

 

[-baller]

oh, sorry --- maybe I was misleading.

there's 2 situations --- the real world money in the bank, and the cap space calculations.

if the player gets a signing bonus it gets divided up over the term of the contract for cap space calcs only --- he gets all the money up front, however, to spend as he wants.

it's the same if he's traded.

that's the reason behind that cassel deal everybody's yapping about.

they ducked maybe 17 or 18 million of cap hit on that deal, which was the only way they were able to sign and re-sign all the players they have so far.

ie bodden, baker, taylor, springs, wright, etc....

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

there's different ways to make $$ in the nfl.basically, you can make bonus money, standard salary, and guaranteed salary, so it all depends on how the guy's making his 10 mil.if it's just regular salary and he's cut then it wouldn't count against the cap, which is why you see a lot of guys cut.if a team pays out a bonus up front on some guy's contract, however, they're on the hook for that cap hit.for cap purposes, the bonus gets divided up equally over the term of the contract, and when the guy gets cut the team has to take the hit on all remaining 'unpaid' bonus monies, but could possibly divide it between this year and the next depending on when they cut the guy.

Ahhh, see, I was always under he impression that the "bonus" was all paid up front when they sign. Like a "signing bonus" which was the guaranteed part.Now you mentioned several cases where a player gets cut. Does the same hold true if they are traded? Or would that basically depend on the wording of their contract?

Great question. We're about to see some maneuvering by many teams to get the salary cap floor (a term rarely discussed, but quite real).Teams must have $111M counting for 2009, otherwise they're violating the salary cap floor (no idea what the punishment is for it, but it is some violation).If a team trades a player, for example - his contract is technically off of their books, but the previously pro-rated signing bonus is accelerated to 2009. A hypothetical player that signed an 8-year deal with $16M signing bonus three years ago and then gets traded (or cut) gets all of that bonus accelerated. That means $10M would count in 2009 rather than just $2M, an $8M "credit" towards hitting that $111M salary cap floor.Everyone is concerned about 2010 and its uncapped year as well, so there's going to be some creative accounting coming up over the next few months.

 

[-baller]

I believe if they're below the floor, the league simply fines them the difference and pays it out directly to the players.

how it's divided, I have no idea.

I suppose the commish would always have the discretion to hit them up for whatever other penalties he felt like, if he feels they're flouting the rules.

edit: jeff, I believe they can divide that accelerated cap hit between 2009 and 2010, if they so choose, provided they do the cutting prior to june 1st.

more edits: oops, sorry for the bad info.

 

[massraider]

edit: jeff, I believe they can divide that accelerated cap hit between 2009 and 2010, if they so choose, provided they do the cutting prior to june 1st.

It used to be that if you cut a player after June 1, it was spread out over two years.They amended that, and teams could cut a guy before June 1, and spread it over two season if the chose to. There may have been a limit on the number of players that could happen to, but I am not sure on that.

At any rate, that point has become moot, as the cap has gone up, and teams gotten smarter with cap management, that June 1 is insignificant now.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

A little more info on the salary cap floor, FWIW:

Bucs Central

Buccaneers available Cap Room

Wednesday, February 25th, 2009

With reports surfacing that the NFL will bump the cap by nearly $4 million from $123 million to $127 million in 2009, the Buccaneers are flush with nearly $70 million in available cap room with the start of free agency looming.

The team used what many describe as the LTBE loophole, to roll unused money over from 2008 to 2009. The cuts of Brooks, Dunn, Galloway, Hilliard and June saved the team 12.55 million in cap space for 2009. By adding the current cap numbers for Sims, Penn, A. Bryant and McCown together for 2009 you get a figure of 18.2385 million.

After computing the numbers, the Bucs currently stand at roughly 68.758 million in cap space once the free agency signing period opens.

With the salary cap floor being 87.6% of the total cap for 2009, not counting money’s rolled over using the LTBE loophole. The Bucs will need to spend $111,252,000.00 million dollars this coming season. With the team hoovering around $63 million against the cap as of today, the Bucs still need to spend another $48.2 million to reach the salary cap floor or face league sanctioned fines.

 

[Sinrman]

Thanks baller and Jeff. Good info. I'm surprised the sanction for being over the cap by the cut off date isn't a bit more harsh. But I guess owners don't want to have to lose more money simply because they weren't under by the designated day, and that's why they are always rushing to cut people by then.

 

[The Man With No Name]

Thanks baller and Jeff. Good info. I'm surprised the sanction for being over the cap by the cut off date isn't a bit more harsh. But I guess owners don't want to have to lose more money simply because they weren't under by the designated day, and that's why they are always rushing to cut people by then.

They could also lose draft picks as well as being fined. The Commisioner decides the punishment.

 

[-baller]

Thanks baller and Jeff. Good info. I'm surprised the sanction for being over the cap by the cut off date isn't a bit more harsh. But I guess owners don't want to have to lose more money simply because they weren't under by the designated day, and that's why they are always rushing to cut people by then.

under or over?it's probably pretty hard to go over because the cap is in effect right now and the league has to approve all contracts, so if you try to sign a guy that puts you over the league will just reject that proposed contract.

 

[Sinrman]

Thanks baller and Jeff. Good info. I'm surprised the sanction for being over the cap by the cut off date isn't a bit more harsh. But I guess owners don't want to have to lose more money simply because they weren't under by the designated day, and that's why they are always rushing to cut people by then.

under or over?it's probably pretty hard to go over because the cap is in effect right now and the league has to approve all contracts, so if you try to sign a guy that puts you over the league will just reject that proposed contract.

Ok, so you can't just sign a bunch of $100+ million contracts and then cut down later? I guess that makes sense...

 

[Andy Herron]

edit: jeff, I believe they can divide that accelerated cap hit between 2009 and 2010, if they so choose, provided they do the cutting prior to june 1st.

It used to be that if you cut a player after June 1, it was spread out over two years.They amended that, and teams could cut a guy before June 1, and spread it over two season if the chose to. There may have been a limit on the number of players that could happen to, but I am not sure on that.

Actually, since the league has entered the 2009 season with the 2010 season currently uncapped, the June 1st rule was nullified. Any cuts this season would accelerate all remaining bonus dollars to this year's cap regardless of the timing.

 

[Sinrman]

edit: jeff, I believe they can divide that accelerated cap hit between 2009 and 2010, if they so choose, provided they do the cutting prior to june 1st.

It used to be that if you cut a player after June 1, it was spread out over two years.They amended that, and teams could cut a guy before June 1, and spread it over two season if the chose to. There may have been a limit on the number of players that could happen to, but I am not sure on that.

Actually, since the league has entered the 2009 season with the 2010 season currently uncapped, the June 1st rule was nullified. Any cuts this season would accelerate all remaining bonus dollars to this year's cap regardless of the timing.

Interesting. 2010 is going to wreak havoc on some teams. I truly hope they get something in place for 2011+ though. Don't want to see a strike...