delusional
Footballguy
less for his Maclin hit then he was on his Jackson hit.
W T F ??? Anyone see something wrong with this
W T F ??? Anyone see something wrong with this
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Dunta Robinson fined.... (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter delusional
- Start date
Detroit Revival
Footballguy
Should have been suspended a game. It was a vicious deliberate hit.
eaglesfan7
Footballguy
He should have been suspended since it wasn't his first offense. And yes, he should have been fined more. What a loser...
Skeletore Eh
Footballguy
Yeah he didnt use his arms or shoulder. It was a blatant headbutt. I didn't expect a suspension but I thought for sure a larger fine than $40,000
Mario Kart
Footballguy
Should not have been fined at all.
The_Wolfman
Footballguy
I agree with that, if the NFL is serious about cracking down on those kind of hits it should have been an immediate ejection. Sometimes I feel for those defenders because they only have a fraction of a second to react, but this play was different, Robinson had plenty of time and deliberately led with the crown of his helmet and basically launched himself at Maclin.Luckily, because it wasn't quite a bang-bang play, Maclin was able to see the hit coming and somewhat get out of the way so it was only a glancing blow off I believe his facemask.Robinson is a punk and a loser though for sure.
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Skeletore Eh
Footballguy
Care to explain?
Mario Kart
Footballguy
Robinson lead with his shoulders. Maclin lowered his head which helped make Robinson's head hit his. Ergo, no fine.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
I think he got 25k for the Jackson hit and 40k for the Maclin hit didn't he?
eaglesfan7
Footballguy
He put his head first and came slightly off his feet and threw himself at Maclin.
The_Wolfman
Footballguy
Maybe you should watch the play again, he clearly puts his head down and leads with his helmet.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgbG7IEljuI
Your delusional, you lower your head you are not trying to hit with your shoulder
delusional
Footballguy
No, I am delusionalHis fine last year was 50k...but it got reduced to 25k because he apologized to Jackson...this safety committee is a farce. Fining guys for tapping QBs helmets and what not but illegal crap like this gets a joke of a treatment. The funny part...the 40k was the min they could fine him as a repeat offender...anything less and there would be no fine or nothing. He should see a game suspenion imho
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Rick James
Footballguy
I guess I just don't see what everyone else sees. It looks like he is trying to hit Maclin with his shoulder, and he does, but his helmet grazes the front of Maclin's mask. The outcry over that hit is a bit of an overreaction.
LarryAllen'sJockstrap
Footballguy
I think it's as much the defenseless receiver issue as the deliberate leading with the helmet. The NFL isn't going to allow vicious hits on WRs coming right off a catch anymore. I agree that most of the hit to the head was glancing, but Robinson went for the knockout blow.I loved the big hit as much as anyone, but when WRs and DBs now often hit 220+ pounds and run 4.4s, I think this policy will lead to a lot longer careers.
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eaglesfan7
Footballguy
It's called careless tackling and it leads to injuries as we have all seen clearly. Head down and not looking at what he's doing. Just recklessly throwing his body around.
Rick James
Footballguy
How are we defining 'defenseless' here? Maclin caught the ball and took a few steps.
Skeletore Eh
Footballguy
I don't see what you are talking about. Link to the video is above. He clearly launches headfirst at Maclin's head.
Rooster
Footballguy
Want to show players how seriously this is being taken? Fine them a significant percentage of their cap number when it's this cut and dry and put the entirety of the fine into a special fund for injured players. A $2+ million dollar fine would get his attention and may change his behavior going forward. 40k? Why should he care? That's not even comparable to a speeding ticket for someone with an average salary.
Mario Kart
Footballguy
Every tackle is lead by the helmet/head. I have never seen a tackle that was lead by a leg or an arm. Robinson clearly uses his shoulder to tackle Maclin. If Maclin does not lower his head, the two heads do not collide. Yes, their heads hit, no way did that look intentional, therefore, no fine.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
It was originally 50 but all the guys that got fined that weekend appealed and most of them were reduced. He definitely deserved a fine this time, but last year's was a joke. He planted his shoulder pad right in the center of Jackson's chest. No H-to-H at all.eta: Merriweather had his reduced as well and his was irrefutably a dirty play, launching himself head first into Heap's facemask. NFL got it wrong twice. First by fining guys that didn't deserve it and then reducing the fine of the guy who really did.
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Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Really? They have a name for one of those moves -- an arm tackle. Guys can get pulled down by their shirts, etc. It just isn't true to aver that every tackle is lead by the helmet.Not sure Maclin had the time to adjust to Robinson to raise or lower his head. And we can argue about the degree of how much Dunta led with his helmet, but he clearly uses the crown of his helmet as the main point of contact, which is dangerous for both Robinson and Maclin. Throw in Dunta's history, and I think this is an easy suspension and fine if the NFL truly wants to stand behind their policy of reducing H2H contact.
It's see what you hit. If he's not leading with his head, his head would be facing up and he would be looking at Maclin and able to direct where he's leading his shoulder. Watch the replay. He head/facemask is facing down and he's looking down when he goes in to hit Maclin. That's leading with your helmet and not a legal play.
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Addai's Adidas
Footballguy
Looks to me like he hit Maclin right on the chin with the top of his helmet. He easily could have been knocked out. What if Maclin was knocked out?
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Just watched it over and over and it looks like he leads with his shoulders . The game is so fast and you can`t predict what the WR is going to do..if he is going to move or duck.These plays are easy to judge in slow motion, not so easy in game speed.'The_Wolfman said:
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Rick James
Footballguy
I asked this earlier and have yet to see a response.'Kirby said:
eaglesfan7
Footballguy
Defenseless or not, it was helmet to helmet. Why was he fined if it was so clean a hit? Get over it.
Rick James
Footballguy
Hey, Atlanta won. I'm good. I doubt Dunta cares about 40k......I'm just a bit concerned about where Goodell is taking this great game. The Dunta hit was 50/50, IMO...but the John Abraham flag for touching Kaafka's back with his helmet was just ridiculous.
the_vision
Footballguy
Rule changes or not he puts his head down. Put it this way, were any of you coached to tackle like that? I'm positive you will not find a coach using this form in tackling drills.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
I don't think that's a fair factor for judgment. Many fines got levied last year to try and stop hits that are borderline. This year they seem to be better at sorting out the good and bad hits, so maybe it will become more reliable to judge based on if they were fined.
Doug B
Footballguy
Leading with the shoulder is now de facto illegal IF the defender is leading with the crown of his helmet (i.e. looking down at the ground). Heads-up tackles are typically legal if they don't involve helmet-to-helmet shots, defenseless-receiver issues, and so forth.'Mario Kart said:
treat88
Footballguy
Thought the hit on Maclin was far more egregious than the hit on Jackson last year.
The Jackson hit was a bang-bang play that was very questionable as to whether he lowered the crown of the helmet or simply put his shoulder into the chest and helmets happened to collide.
This play was intentional and malicious. Not quite at the Meriweather vs. Heap level but very, very close.
That said, how can Maclin possibly be defined as defenseless? He took at least two steps post possession and saw Robinson coming and tried to avoid him. By definition if you can attempt to avoid a hit you are not defenseless right?
I agree that the hit should be flagged and fined, but not because Maclin was defenseless, but rather because it was a clear and intentional case of leading with the crown of the helmet into the head/neck area.
Would this hit have been legal if Maclin had not been defined as defenseless, which he clearly wasn't? I certainly hope not.
The Jackson hit was a bang-bang play that was very questionable as to whether he lowered the crown of the helmet or simply put his shoulder into the chest and helmets happened to collide.
This play was intentional and malicious. Not quite at the Meriweather vs. Heap level but very, very close.
That said, how can Maclin possibly be defined as defenseless? He took at least two steps post possession and saw Robinson coming and tried to avoid him. By definition if you can attempt to avoid a hit you are not defenseless right?
I agree that the hit should be flagged and fined, but not because Maclin was defenseless, but rather because it was a clear and intentional case of leading with the crown of the helmet into the head/neck area.
Would this hit have been legal if Maclin had not been defined as defenseless, which he clearly wasn't? I certainly hope not.
need2know
Footballguy
agree with this.Also, to the folks who have commented that he only threw his shoulder into him must have watched a different play. He lead with the helmet again and deserves far worse punishment.
renesauz
IBL Representative
Honestly, I don't give a rats behind whether a receiver (or QB, or Rb, or anyone!) is "defenseless". Putting your head down and throwing a shoulder towards the head/neck region should ALWAYS be flagged, and should ALWAYS be illegal. It's both dangerous and completely un-necessary, regardless as to whether the receiver is "defnseless" or not. If a tackler's first contact is occuring 5+ feet above the ground, it's almost always bad technique, and can certainly be characterized as "head-hunting". (IE: it's a little differant when a RB is only 3 1/2 feet off the ground running into a pile....but those collisions are usually at a much lower speed.)
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/09000d5d8225ee6f/Eagles-defense-sack-7-yd-loss?r_src=ramp
Pretty blatant flying headbutt
Pretty blatant flying headbutt
JamesTheScot
Footballguy
I think his point is that your helmet is out in front even on a perfectly legal and fundamentally sound wrap up tackle. Your head is at the top of your body and you are usually leaning into the tackle and extending your legs...ergo your helmet leads.That's why it's a hard rule to administer because the tackler can lower his head not to hurt the other player but out of defensive reflex himself. Making contact with your facemask isn't exactly fun. So you instinctively lower your head a bit so you take the contact on your forehead instead.'Stompin said:
So there's a difference lowering your head to protect yourself from the blow (even if you are the one tackling) and launching yourself head down with the intent of striking the other player with your helmet. But it can be hard to tell which is is at game speed.
JamesTheScot
Footballguy
If you watch that, you see Jenkins lower his helmet at the last second before impact. That's the defensive "flinch" that most every tackler has right before impact. You don't want to have your face (nose, mouth and eyes) crushed so you lower your brow to take the impact on your forehead which can absorb the blow. We all do it instinctively. If you slam on the brakes in your car and think you are about to slide into the car in front, you tighten muscles, you pull your neck down and push up your shoulders and you tilt your forehead forward.From the Robinson replay, it does look like he was trying to put his shoulder on Maclin and was trying to make a big hit. He does lower his head but he also tries to hit Maclin with his right shoulder. You even see his right arm come out in his follow through. It looks like Maclin tried to shrink up for the hit which lowered his head and brought his helmet into line with Robinson's. QB's do it every time they are getting ready to get sacked. They lower their head so their forehead takes the blow instead of their face.
The difference in the two hits is actually a matter of a couple of degrees...as in how much further Robinson lowered his head. Jenkins lowered his but not as far. I don't know if that comes into play with the officials. But a guy that lowers his head as far as Robinson does I suspect starts to get a presumption that he was intentionally leading with the helmet instead of just trying to protect himself in the collision.
Another difference is in the impact on the target. A hard hit followed by a layout will always look more devastating than the same hit followed by the target hopping right back up and going to the huddle...yet the tacklers portion of those physics equations could be identical.
Rick James
Footballguy
See, this is baffling. They called John Abraham for a BS penalty later in the game, but let this one go.
renesauz
IBL Representative
Big differance between meeting a guy face up, chest to chest, and inentionally throwing a shoulder at someones head. With the way the rules are written, they could have, and arguably should have, flagged Jenkins (although most of us would argue the rule is un-necessarily and unrealistically strict in regards to QBs)...but there's a world of differance between these two hits. The Jenkins tackle is much MUCH closer to being textbook or clean.His helmet smashes straight into Ryans head.'renesauz said:
I thought he was going to nail him in his chest, albeit upper chest but...yeah I do think Maclin leans down some and even turns to the side some. Look how tall he is when he grabs it and at :45 seconds he has his knees bent and is preparing for a hit. Knees bent makes him smaller.
I think a ton of WRs lean down some and also go to covering the ball with two hands like a RB just before a hit. Very common reaction when they know it's coming.
Rule says helmet to helmet equals a fine, sure that's understandable but he launched and his target's height changed in those split seconds. If Maclin got hit in the chest and went flying backward it'd be a great hit. "Vicious" isn't the right word here.
I think a ton of WRs lean down some and also go to covering the ball with two hands like a RB just before a hit. Very common reaction when they know it's coming.
Rule says helmet to helmet equals a fine, sure that's understandable but he launched and his target's height changed in those split seconds. If Maclin got hit in the chest and went flying backward it'd be a great hit. "Vicious" isn't the right word here.
so no one can disagree with you on a MB?
