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DWill vs JStew (1 Viewer)

Which RB will get the most touches?

  • DWill

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • JStew

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0

Ministry of Pain

Footballguy
Assume both are relatively healthy and assume Matt Moore is decent and the Panthers can move the ball. Who is getting the most touches? Why are you sure about this situation?

If you post beyond a vote, please use statistics which can be pulled up anytime at pro-football-reference.com(commercial work in) and share with us why you feel the way you do.

 
Here is what their production has looked like the past 2 years, in common games played:

2008:

DWill: 273 carries + 22 catches = 295 touches

JStew: 184 carries + 8 catches = 192 touches

Split of touches: 60.5% / 39.5% in favor of DWill

DWill's ypc was also a full yard higher, so there was no reason to give JStew a greater share of touches.

If you split the season into games 1-5 vs. 6-16 (DWill started getting significantly greater share of carries in week 6), then the split of touches is:

Weeks 1-5: 55%-45% in favor of DWill

Weeks 6-16: 63%-37% in favor of DWill

So in 2008, once the coaching staff figured out what they had in DWill, he received nearly a 2-1 share of touches.

2009 (games 1-11, 13):

DWill: 210 carries + 28 catches = 238 touches

JStew: 126 carries + 13 catches = 139 touches

Split of touches: 63% / 37% in favor of DWill

There was no material difference in ypc for 2009 (5.2 for DWill vs 5.1 for JStew)

So if you look at weeks 6-16 of 2008 and common games played in 2009, DWill received 63% of the total touches. While JStew was dominant when given the opportunity to perform the last few weeks of 2009 (69 carries for 440 yds, 3 TDs in the last 3 weeks), it would take a major shift in mindset for the coaching staff to suddenly give JStew a greater share of touches.

 
Here is what their production has looked like the past 2 years, in common games played:2008:DWill: 273 carries + 22 catches = 295 touches JStew: 184 carries + 8 catches = 192 touchesSplit of touches: 60.5% / 39.5% in favor of DWillDWill's ypc was also a full yard higher, so there was no reason to give JStew a greater share of touches.If you split the season into games 1-5 vs. 6-16 (DWill started getting significantly greater share of carries in week 6), then the split of touches is:Weeks 1-5: 55%-45% in favor of DWillWeeks 6-16: 63%-37% in favor of DWillSo in 2008, once the coaching staff figured out what they had in DWill, he received nearly a 2-1 share of touches.2009 (games 1-11, 13): DWill: 210 carries + 28 catches = 238 touches JStew: 126 carries + 13 catches = 139 touchesSplit of touches: 63% / 37% in favor of DWillThere was no material difference in ypc for 2009 (5.2 for DWill vs 5.1 for JStew)So if you look at weeks 6-16 of 2008 and common games played in 2009, DWill received 63% of the total touches. While JStew was dominant when given the opportunity to perform the last few weeks of 2009 (69 carries for 440 yds, 3 TDs in the last 3 weeks), it would take a major shift in mindset for the coaching staff to suddenly give JStew a greater share of touches.
This. And there's no indication it will change at all. Yes, Stewart is amazing. I own him in a couple leagues and very glad I do. That said, Williams has still outperformed him and is still the #1 RB on that team both in name and production. A 60/40 split will likely continue. Anyone predicting a higher share for Stewart have no basis other than a hope or a hunch to do so.
 
“It’s going to be close to a 50-50 split no matter what," Williams said. “That’s what the coaching staff and the front office wants and it’s also what Jonathan and I want. It’s good for both of us. We’re at our best when it’s that way."
That is what DeAngelo said recently. My guess is he will start as usual, and they will both share carries as usual. Whoever gets the most might be based on what the defense gives them.
 
This. And there's no indication it will change at all. Yes, Stewart is amazing. I own him in a couple leagues and very glad I do. That said, Williams has still outperformed him and is still the #1 RB on that team both in name and production. A 60/40 split will likely continue. Anyone predicting a higher share for Stewart have no basis other than a hope or a hunch to do so.
Should have mentioned, I'm also a Stewart owner, so my bias (if any) would have been towards Stewart. He looked great in the last few weeks of 2009, so perhaps he gets a greater share of touches....closer to 55-45. Other than an injury to DWill though, I see no fact base that suggests Stewart will overtake DWill and get more touches.Evidently 3 of 16 people voting so far felt differently, but were unable (or unwilling) to defend their perspective.
 
There was an article yesterday about speculation that the Panthers might would trade one of their backs for a 1st round pick and Fox said: link

Fox said the Panthers were committed to keeping Williams and Stewart, who last season became the first pair of teammates in NFL history to each rush for 1,100 yards in the same season.

"We're not looking to get rid of those guys," he said.

"They're both very, very capable and, in my opinion, if you're going to lean on the run game, you need more than one."
 
Carolina's running game has been stellar with the current formula.

Williams will continue to get 55-60% of the carries. Stewart might see a slight increase in order to keep Williams fresher for the duration of the season, but he won't get the majority of the touches unless DeAngelo gets hurt.

Buuuuut, if DeAngelo does get injured, Stewart is instantly a top 3 or 4 fantasy back. Dude carried me in the playoffs last season.

 
Touchdown Syndrome said:
Buuuuut, if DeAngelo does get injured, Stewart is instantly a top 3 or 4 fantasy back. Dude carried me in the playoffs last season.
This is the thing, ala the Chiefs back in the day with Priest and LJ both top RB's....if both are healthy you still can play either and have a solid #2RB. But, if one would get hurt than you automatically have a weekly top 5 RB.Not a whole lot of downside, but tons of upside.
 
Touchdown Syndrome said:
Carolina's running game has been stellar with the current formula.

Williams will continue to get 55-60% of the carries. Stewart might see a slight increase in order to keep Williams fresher for the duration of the season, but he won't get the majority of the touches unless DeAngelo gets hurt.

Buuuuut, if DeAngelo does get injured, Stewart is instantly a top 3 or 4 fantasy back. Dude carried me in the playoffs last season.
The same could be said about Deangelo if Stewart gets hurt. Heck, he's been the #1 overall with Stewart healthy.
 
Touchdown Syndrome said:
Buuuuut, if DeAngelo does get injured, Stewart is instantly a top 3 or 4 fantasy back. Dude carried me in the playoffs last season.
This is the thing, ala the Chiefs back in the day with Priest and LJ both top RB's....if both are healthy you still can play either and have a solid #2RB. But, if one would get hurt than you automatically have a weekly top 5 RB.Not a whole lot of downside, but tons of upside.
The problem with this is that neither RB can be drafted as your RB2 (at least in my leagues last year). So you're taking a RB2 as your RB1 with the HOPE you picked the right one in terms of injury. Not great for redraft, but obviously both are very valuable in dynasty.
 
Touchdown Syndrome said:
Buuuuut, if DeAngelo does get injured, Stewart is instantly a top 3 or 4 fantasy back. Dude carried me in the playoffs last season.
This is the thing, ala the Chiefs back in the day with Priest and LJ both top RB's....if both are healthy you still can play either and have a solid #2RB. But, if one would get hurt than you automatically have a weekly top 5 RB.Not a whole lot of downside, but tons of upside.
The problem with this is that neither RB can be drafted as your RB2 (at least in my leagues last year). So you're taking a RB2 as your RB1 with the HOPE you picked the right one in terms of injury. Not great for redraft, but obviously both are very valuable in dynasty.
Yep, this was speaking from a Dynasty perspective. If you're deep enough with another top RB or two than Williams or Stewart make great RB2 or RB3. Both can easily be plugged in weekly for bye wks or injuries and get you solid points, but if things happened where one gets injured or traded than your RB3 just became your RB1.
 
I don't KNOW that Stewart will get more carries in 2010, but I would not be surprised at all if he did. Why?

1) This is his third season. Fox likes to keep rookies waiting to start, but Stewart isn't a rookie anymore.

2) If Williams is not signed to a contract extension, then I think a team would want to see what the other guy, who is signed longterm, can do as the featured back. At some point in the season, I think you would want to start giving Stewart more because he is your future.

If Williams renegotiates a long term deal, then all bets are off and he is far more likely to see the 60 percent rather than the 40 percent of the workload. Or, if the team is still in the playoff hunt late into the season, and if Williams has been playing ver well, then I think Fox stays with him. But if the team starts to fade, and Williams is going to be gone, why wouldn't you start feeding your younger back?

So, in my view, short of Williams getting a new deal, which has been rumored but hasn't happened yet, Stewart is likely to get more carries than Williams.

 
I don't KNOW that Stewart will get more carries in 2010, but I would not be surprised at all if he did. Why?1) This is his third season. Fox likes to keep rookies waiting to start, but Stewart isn't a rookie anymore.2) If Williams is not signed to a contract extension, then I think a team would want to see what the other guy, who is signed longterm, can do as the featured back. At some point in the season, I think you would want to start giving Stewart more because he is your future.If Williams renegotiates a long term deal, then all bets are off and he is far more likely to see the 60 percent rather than the 40 percent of the workload. Or, if the team is still in the playoff hunt late into the season, and if Williams has been playing ver well, then I think Fox stays with him. But if the team starts to fade, and Williams is going to be gone, why wouldn't you start feeding your younger back?So, in my view, short of Williams getting a new deal, which has been rumored but hasn't happened yet, Stewart is likely to get more carries than Williams.
Interesting AZ, thanks. :thumbdown:
 
Touchdown Syndrome said:
Carolina's running game has been stellar with the current formula.

Williams will continue to get 55-60% of the carries. Stewart might see a slight increase in order to keep Williams fresher for the duration of the season, but he won't get the majority of the touches unless DeAngelo gets hurt.

Buuuuut, if DeAngelo does get injured, Stewart is instantly a top 3 or 4 fantasy back. Dude carried me in the playoffs last season.
Buuuuut, if my Aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.Seriously, the opposite applies as well; if Stewart gets injured, DWill is top 3 or 4, as well.

 
I don't KNOW that Stewart will get more carries in 2010, but I would not be surprised at all if he did. Why?1) This is his third season. Fox likes to keep rookies waiting to start, but Stewart isn't a rookie anymore.2) If Williams is not signed to a contract extension, then I think a team would want to see what the other guy, who is signed longterm, can do as the featured back. At some point in the season, I think you would want to start giving Stewart more because he is your future.If Williams renegotiates a long term deal, then all bets are off and he is far more likely to see the 60 percent rather than the 40 percent of the workload. Or, if the team is still in the playoff hunt late into the season, and if Williams has been playing ver well, then I think Fox stays with him. But if the team starts to fade, and Williams is going to be gone, why wouldn't you start feeding your younger back?So, in my view, short of Williams getting a new deal, which has been rumored but hasn't happened yet, Stewart is likely to get more carries than Williams.
Except, the team has said they want to renegotiate DWill's contract, the team has said they want to retain the RB approach they have been using, and Williams has said he likes the situation and the RB split in Carolina.So, in my view, barring injury to either DWill or Stewart, the RB split will stay the same (as Fox and Carolina has said).
 
DWill, JStew??? :wall: :thumbup:
No kidding. STOP PEOPLE JUST STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good poll for DWill and JStew. MaMoo in place of JDel has to help both (as well as helping SSS (Steve Smith South)), but I wonder if they'll miss MuhMuh's blocking since DJar isn't as good. Of course, that means TEs DRos, GBarn, and JKing need to step up and block more. And then there are backup RBs MGood and TSutt to consider...I wonder if either RB will outperform MiTurn, KnowMore, RoBro, and RashMen?
 
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DWill, JStew??? :wall: :goodposting:
No kidding. STOP PEOPLE JUST STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good poll for DWill and JStew. MaMoo in place of JDel has to help both (as well as helping SSS (Steve Smith South)), but I wonder if they'll miss MuhMuh's blocking since DJar isn't as good. Of course, that means TEs DRos, GBarn, and JKing need to step up and block more. And then there are backup RBs MGood and TSutt to consider...I wonder if either RB will outperform MiTurn, KnowMore, RoBro, and RashMen?
Now THAT is some funny stuff to read on a Friday morning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
DWill, JStew???

:wall: :goodposting:
No kidding. STOP PEOPLE JUST STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good poll for DWill and JStew. MaMoo in place of JDel has to help both (as well as helping SSS (Steve Smith South)), but I wonder if they'll miss MuhMuh's blocking since DJar isn't as good. Of course, that means TEs DRos, GBarn, and JKing need to step up and block more. And then there are backup RBs MGood and TSutt to consider...I wonder if either RB will outperform MiTurn, KnowMore, RoBro, and RashMen?
geez we don't want to hear about your couch rash.Since Matt Moore is entering the 2010 season as 3rd year guy with 249 career attempts under his belt, I think the question becomes how many pass attempts will Carolina dial up. I don't see any reason why it won't be close enough to a 50/50 split with perhaps 520 rushing attempts, 440 Passing Attempts. If anything I think it could end up with more rushing attempts for Williams and Stewart if Moore can get them 10 wins and we see plenty of games where the RB's chew on the clock.

A lot will depend on how well Moore goes. I think he is the real deal one day probably gives Jerry Jones new nightmares by beating the Cowboys in an NFC Championship game but this season.......John Fox will want to win the best way he knows how, by using very liberal doses of his stud RB's.

 
I don't expect any changes from last year, when both are healthy. DAngelo gets about 60%, and Stewart gets about 40%. Since CAR is expected to run the ball 30+ times a game, I see DAngelo getting 15-20 carries, while Stewart gets 10-15.

The real question will be how the TDs are divided.

 
DWill, JStew??? :scared: :thumbup:
No kidding. STOP PEOPLE JUST STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good poll for DWill and JStew. MaMoo in place of JDel has to help both (as well as helping SSS (Steve Smith South)), but I wonder if they'll miss MuhMuh's blocking since DJar isn't as good. Of course, that means TEs DRos, GBarn, and JKing need to step up and block more. And then there are backup RBs MGood and TSutt to consider...I wonder if either RB will outperform MiTurn, KnowMore, RoBro, and RashMen?
Awesome
 
Except, the team has said they want to renegotiate DWill's contract
Do you (or anyone) have a link to this? I have only heard speculation from the media and have not seen anything from the Panthers. I'm not saying they didn't, but I haven't seen it. If the team has said that, I'd like to see it. Thanks.
 
DWill, JStew??? :) :goodposting:
No kidding. STOP PEOPLE JUST STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good poll for DWill and JStew. MaMoo in place of JDel has to help both (as well as helping SSS (Steve Smith South)), but I wonder if they'll miss MuhMuh's blocking since DJar isn't as good. Of course, that means TEs DRos, GBarn, and JKing need to step up and block more. And then there are backup RBs MGood and TSutt to consider...I wonder if either RB will outperform MiTurn, KnowMore, RoBro, and RashMen?
:goodposting: They are lucky to have guys like GeSchwa, RyKal and TWhart to run behind.
 
DWill, JStew??? :lmao: :hifive:
No kidding. STOP PEOPLE JUST STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good poll for DWill and JStew. MaMoo in place of JDel has to help both (as well as helping SSS (Steve Smith South)), but I wonder if they'll miss MuhMuh's blocking since DJar isn't as good. Of course, that means TEs DRos, GBarn, and JKing need to step up and block more. And then there are backup RBs MGood and TSutt to consider...I wonder if either RB will outperform MiTurn, KnowMore, RoBro, and RashMen?
LOLOLOLOL!
 
Bayhawks said:
Except, the team has said they want to renegotiate DWill's contract
Do you (or anyone) have a link to this? I have only heard speculation from the media and have not seen anything from the Panthers. I'm not saying they didn't, but I haven't seen it. If the team has said that, I'd like to see it. Thanks.
I saw it on the news tab from THIS SITE a few weeks ago. Not for nothing, but if you are a member of the staff here, and doubt the veracity of the "news" that you report, why should we (or anyone else) value the opinion from this site?ETA-not trying to be a #####, but it just seems odd that a staff member would question information posted as news on the site he is staff at?
Seriously? Do you REALLY think that the staff memorize every piece of info posted as news?I've seen speculation from the media too, but have not seen a single quote from the coaches or team mgmt saying that they are looking to extend Deangelo's contract. If you have a link, post the link.

 
Bayhawks said:
Except, the team has said they want to renegotiate DWill's contract
Do you (or anyone) have a link to this? I have only heard speculation from the media and have not seen anything from the Panthers. I'm not saying they didn't, but I haven't seen it. If the team has said that, I'd like to see it. Thanks.
I saw it on the news tab from THIS SITE a few weeks ago. Not for nothing, but if you are a member of the staff here, and doubt the veracity of the "news" that you report, why should we (or anyone else) value the opinion from this site?ETA-not trying to be a #####, but it just seems odd that a staff member would question information posted as news on the site he is staff at?
Seriously? Do you REALLY think that the staff memorize every piece of info posted as news?I've seen speculation from the media too, but have not seen a single quote from the coaches or team mgmt saying that they are looking to extend Deangelo's contract. If you have a link, post the link.
LINKFox said that the Panthers have no intention of trading him, and the link says the team is expected to offer him an extension; basically what the FBG news tab reported previously.

 
DWill, JStew???

:D :tinfoilhat:
No kidding. STOP PEOPLE JUST STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good poll for DWill and JStew. MaMoo in place of JDel has to help both (as well as helping SSS (Steve Smith South)), but I wonder if they'll miss MuhMuh's blocking since DJar isn't as good. Of course, that means TEs DRos, GBarn, and JKing need to step up and block more. And then there are backup RBs MGood and TSutt to consider...I wonder if either RB will outperform MiTurn, KnowMore, RoBro, and RashMen?
Classic ! Almost signature worthy.
 
LINK

Fox said that the Panthers have no intention of trading him, and the link says the team is expected to offer him an extension; basically what the FBG news tab reported previously.
The Panthers may "lock up" DeAngelo Williams with a contract extension before this season, according to ESPN's Len Pasquarelli.
Please point to where in that link there is a quote from the coaching staff or team mgmt that says they are offering Deangelo a contract extension. All I see is speculation from Len Pasquarelli.Which, by the way, was the entire point that Anthony Boberly was trying to make when you ridiculously called him out for not memorizing every single piece of news that FBG reports.

 
LINK

Fox said that the Panthers have no intention of trading him, and the link says the team is expected to offer him an extension; basically what the FBG news tab reported previously.
The Panthers may "lock up" DeAngelo Williams with a contract extension before this season, according to ESPN's Len Pasquarelli.
Please point to where in that link there is a quote from the coaching staff or team mgmt that says they are offering Deangelo a contract extension. All I see is speculation from Len Pasquarelli.Which, by the way, was the entire point that Anthony Boberly was trying to make when you ridiculously called him out for not memorizing every single piece of news that FBG reports.
Thanks Michael. Bayhawks, I have seen news from here and elsewhere, but I have not seen any direct comments from the Panthers about extending Williams; only media speculation. I also mentioned in my post that I may have just not seen it and if I missed it, I wanted to know about it. There is a big difference between the Panthers saying they want to extend and the media saying it. All I saw the Panthers say directly is they were not looking to trade Williams.

Also, I realize it is important for a staffer to be on top of the news, but there is no way any of us can see every item of news, especially for those that are as busy as I am these days. That is actually why I posted in here. If the Panthers themselves said they wanted to extend Williams, that is something I would want to know. I have not seen that so I asked in here if anyone had a link.

 
Do you really expect A-Borb to know every single bit of NFL information that may not be public knowledge?

A-Borb knows what he is doing or else D-Dod may not have him on board.

 
Geez...you might as well ask if a bear poops in the woods.

Williams gets more carries, significantly more if he's not extended. If they aren't planning on bringing him back, they'll run the wheels right off of him.

 
Do you really expect A-Borb to know every single bit of NFL information that may not be public knowledge?A-Borb knows what he is doing or else D-Dod may not have him on board.
That's right. But even if ABorb is busy with his real life, usually JWoo or SBloo or JeffTef or CLam or ARud or JBra or JPas or BHen I or BHen II or somebody else pops in to help!
 
I don't KNOW that Stewart will get more carries in 2010, but I would not be surprised at all if he did. Why?1) This is his third season. Fox likes to keep rookies waiting to start, but Stewart isn't a rookie anymore.2) If Williams is not signed to a contract extension, then I think a team would want to see what the other guy, who is signed longterm, can do as the featured back. At some point in the season, I think you would want to start giving Stewart more because he is your future.If Williams renegotiates a long term deal, then all bets are off and he is far more likely to see the 60 percent rather than the 40 percent of the workload. Or, if the team is still in the playoff hunt late into the season, and if Williams has been playing ver well, then I think Fox stays with him. But if the team starts to fade, and Williams is going to be gone, why wouldn't you start feeding your younger back?So, in my view, short of Williams getting a new deal, which has been rumored but hasn't happened yet, Stewart is likely to get more carries than Williams.
Except, the team has said they want to renegotiate DWill's contract, the team has said they want to retain the RB approach they have been using, and Williams has said he likes the situation and the RB split in Carolina.So, in my view, barring injury to either DWill or Stewart, the RB split will stay the same (as Fox and Carolina has said).
The coach would clearly like to keep both backs. Why not? They are both great backs. But whether or not the team DOES in fact sign Williams to an extension is another matter. He won't come cheaply and can the team afford both long term? That's a decision the owner and GM will have to make. At this point there are only rumors egarding Williams and the statement about rengotiatiating with him was something the media said; the team said they aren't wanting to trade him--which, incidentally, is the smart thing to say if you really did hope to trade him. If a team announces that they want to unload a player then the lose all negotiating leverage. So, I won't put any bets on how these guys will be used short or long term until Williams really does rengotiate a contract.
 
This is something that I was unaware of and certainly sheds new light on this situation.

Link

Williams, Kalil in payday limbo

'30 percent rule' restricts Panthers, other teams, from locking up group of rising stars with expiring contracts.

By Charles Chandler

[email protected]

Posted: Friday, Apr. 02, 2010

New rules tied to the NFL's ongoing labor dispute make it almost prohibitive for the Carolina Panthers to sign Pro Bowlers DeAngelo Williams and Ryan Kalil to long-term contract extensions this year.

Williams and Kalil are among a group of the league's best young players in a contract limbo, forced to wait on lucrative new deals because of the "30 percent rule," which sets restrictive guidelines for renegotiating existing contracts - and could ultimately cause the Panthers to lose Kalil without compensation.

Other players affected include some of the league's rising young stars, including receivers Steve Smith of the New York Giants and Sidney Rice of Minnesota; linebacker LaMarr Woodley and receiver Santonio Holmes of Pittsburgh; all-pro center Nick Mangold and linebacker David Harris of the New York Jets; Indianapolis running back Joseph Addai; and Baltimore nose tackle Haloti Ngata.

Like Williams and Kalil, each of those players are entering the final year of their contracts and either were selected in the mid-to-late first round of the 2006 draft or the 2007 second round.

The new rules, which were triggered when NFL labor unrest forced players and owners into a 2010 season played without a salary cap, also affect star players with multiple years left on their contracts whose performances have far exceeded what they were paid in their rookie deals. That group includes Tennessee running back Chris Johnson and Philadelphia receiver DeSean Jackson. Both players have made it known they believe they deserve a pay raise.

"Basically, your hands are tied," said agent Ben Dogra, whose firm, Creative Artists Agency, represents Kalil, Smith and Addai.

Dogra called the renegotiations for such players "almost impossible to do" because the 30 percent rule limits base salaries for top-performing players who weren't early first-round picks and requires their contracts to include much larger signing bonuses (up to 80 percent or more of a total deal) than most teams are comfortable with.

Based on the estimated market value of new five-year contracts for Williams and Kalil if they did deals this year ($9 million and $6 million per year average, respectively), the Panthers would have to use signing bonuses, which are considered guaranteed pay, to account for about $30 million (66 percent) of Williams' new contract and $25 million (84 percent) of Kalil's.

"Most clubs are afraid to guarantee (that much)," said Dogra.

Agent Brad Leshnock, who represents Mangold, the Jets' two-time Pro Bowl center, said the new rules are "a real obstacle," though he still hopes to convince New York officials that his client is worthy of a massive signing bonus.

Panthers general manager Marty Hurney and Williams' agent, Jimmy Sexton, declined comment.

More suitable conditions for renegotiations aren't expected until after NFL owners and the players' association reach a new collective bargaining agreement. For now, talks are stalled and owners are prepared to lock out players next March if necessary.

Williams, a running back, and Kalil, a center, are among the young core players the Panthers have said they're committed to keeping.

But the "30 percent rule" restricts the size and growth of base salaries - but not signing bonuses - in renegotiated contract extensions for them and players like them this year. The rule is particularly hard-hitting because their rookie contracts paid them relatively low base salaries, putting them at a negotiating disadvantage since a player's 2009 base salary and limited other earnings are the starting point for determining how much base pay they can earn in an extension.

For instance, Kalil's 2009 figure is $510,000, which allows for a 30 percent raise of $153,000, setting that as the fixed amount for his annual base pay raises throughout the new deal.

A market-rate, five-year, $30 million deal for Kalil beginning at a $663,000 base salary this season would top out at a $1.275 million base in 2014. His base pay would total $4.845million for the life of the deal, requiring the Panthers to give him a signing bonus of more than $25million to get to the market rate.

Williams' basis for determining his base pay is a 2009 figure of $1.61million, 30 percent of which is $483,000. His base salaries in a five-year, $45 million deal would total $15.295 million, leaving nearly $30 million to be paid via signing bonus.

Under normal circumstances before the uncapped year, the Panthers would've been able to negotiate contracts for Williams and Kalil more liberally, making more of the deal base salary and other kinds of non-guaranteed pay.

"There's no question in my mind, after Ryan just made his first Pro Bowl, that if the rules hadn't changed, he'd already have a brand new deal now," said Dogra.

The 30 percent rule does not apply to restricted free agents whose contracts have expired. That means the Panthers aren't hindered if they want to strike a market-value deal with outside linebacker Thomas Davis, another of their core players.

This week, Dogra negotiated a six-year, $48 million contract for Houston Texans' restricted free agent linebacker DeMeco Ryans. It included a $7 million base salary for next season - a total that exceeds what Kalil would make in base pay for five years and what would take Williams three years to reach.

Assuming Williams and Kalil stay unsigned this season, their status for next year is a mystery - dependent upon terms of a new collective bargaining agreement.

Before rules changes related to the uncapped year, four-year players with expiring contracts could become unrestricted free agents. The uncapped rules raised the requirement to reach that status to six seasons of experience.

Kalil is entering his fourth season, Williams his fifth.

If the old standard is re-established, Williams and Kalil each could be unrestricted free agents. The Panthers could try to strike a deal with both of them, or perhaps place their franchise tag on Williams.

If that happened and Kalil didn't sign a new contract, the Panthers could lose him without compensation, said Dogra.

Dogra said it's highly unlikely the Panthers would use a franchise or transition tag on Kalil because it would require them to pay him significantly more than the market value for centers. That's because offensive linemen are not separated by position when franchise tenders are calculated, meaning a center or guard who is franchised is paid the same as left tackles, who are generally the highest paid offensive linemen.

Thus, Dogra said there's a chance the "30 percent rule" could cause the Panthers to lose Kalil, something he doesn't think would've been a possibility without the uncapped season's new rules.

Kalil helps anchor the Panthers' widely respected offensive line, which opens holes for Williams and fellow running back Jonathan Stewart.

Williams, who made his first Pro Bowl last season, has rushed for 2,632 yards and 25 touchdowns the past two seasons.
 
I don't KNOW that Stewart will get more carries in 2010, but I would not be surprised at all if he did. Why?

1) This is his third season. Fox likes to keep rookies waiting to start, but Stewart isn't a rookie anymore.

2) If Williams is not signed to a contract extension, then I think a team would want to see what the other guy, who is signed longterm, can do as the featured back. At some point in the season, I think you would want to start giving Stewart more because he is your future.

If Williams renegotiates a long term deal, then all bets are off and he is far more likely to see the 60 percent rather than the 40 percent of the workload. Or, if the team is still in the playoff hunt late into the season, and if Williams has been playing ver well, then I think Fox stays with him. But if the team starts to fade, and Williams is going to be gone, why wouldn't you start feeding your younger back?

So, in my view, short of Williams getting a new deal, which has been rumored but hasn't happened yet, Stewart is likely to get more carries than Williams.
A future with some injury concerns. Why not run the wheels off the guy on his way out of town and save the miles on your future every day driver? Carolina knows what Stewart can do. They don't have to figure it out.I think it's going to be closer to a 50-50 split just because Stewart did do well last season. Both guys are young and both are effective whether their touches come in limited or lion shares. The Panthers are going to want to keep both guys happy and the only way they keep both happy is to keep them relatively balanced in terms of carries.

I'd be a little surprised if Williams got more than 55% of the carries barring injury to Stewart.

 

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