[dynasty] 2008 rookie draft redux (1 Viewer)

[FUBAR]

Obviously need may factor in, but in general, in a 1/2/3/1/1 IDP (3/4/4) league

This is done as if we were to draft a dynasty league today - this is how I would rank this year's class forward.

Or, to look at it another way, if I had a player in a dynasty league and were offered a player above him in a 1 for 1, assuming need isn't a factor, I would make the trade today.

Broken into tiers

FIRST ROUND

1. Forte, Matt CHI RB

2. Johnson, Chris TEN RB

3. Stewart, Jonathan CAR RB

4. Ryan, Matt ATL QB

5. McFadden, Darren OAK RB

6. Slaton, Steve HOU RB

7. Royal, Eddie DEN WR

8. Flacco, Joe BAL QB

9. Jackson, DeSean PHI WR

10. Mendenhall, Rashard PIT RB

11. Rice, Ray BAL RB

12. Thomas, Devin WAS WR

SECOND ROUND

13. Carlson, John SEA TE

14. Keller, Dustin, NYJ TE

15. Smith, Kevin DET RB

16. Avery, Donnie STL WR

17. Bess, Davone MIA WR

18. Hardy, James BUF WR

19. Mayo, Jerod NEP LB

20. Morgan, Josh SFO WR

21. Hightower, Tim ARI RB

22. Lofton, Curtis ATL LB

23. Green-Ellis, BenJarvus NEP RB

24. Hillis, Peyton DEN RB

I'll continue this later, probably into the 5th or so.

I had Hightower way too high at first, I honestly wouldn't trade Morgan or anyone above him for him.

 

[Gottabesweet]

So mad I wasted my 1.3 on Mendenhall. 1.2 on Stewart is a spotty start too, I wish I had taken Forte at 1.3 or traded down and took CJ3

 

[bumpman]

Obviously need may factor in, but in general, in a 1/2/3/1/1 IDP (3/4/4) league FIRST ROUND1. Forte, Matt CHI RB2. Johnson, Chris TEN RB 3. Stewart, Jonathan CAR RB4. Ryan, Matt ATL QB5. McFadden, Darren OAK RB6. Slaton, Steve HOU RB7. Royal, Eddie DEN WR8. Flacco, Joe BAL QB9. Jackson, DeSean PHI WR10. Mendenhall, Rashard PIT RB11. Hightower, Tim ARI RB12. Thomas, Devin WAS WRSECOND ROUNDTBCI'll continue this later, just getting the 1st round redux out for now.

Solid list. I would take Ray Rice over Hightower and Mendenhall at this point. McGahee looks about done.

 

[jonboltz]

Stewart should be about 4-5 spots lower.

Tim Hightower should NOT be on this list.

Kevin Smith should be on this list.

Ray Rice as well ahead of Thomas/Hightower.

In Honorable mention, I'd also rate these guys above Thomas/Hightower:

Keller

Carlson

Bess

Green-Ellis

Hillis

Avery

 

[Mimo]

So mad I wasted my 1.3 on Mendenhall. 1.2 on Stewart is a spotty start too, I wish I had taken Forte at 1.3 or traded down and took CJ3

U and me both. I just can't get over if he doesn't get hurt the opportunity that was there with FWP's injuries this year.

 

[twr]

So mad I wasted my 1.3 on Mendenhall. 1.2 on Stewart is a spotty start too, I wish I had taken Forte at 1.3 or traded down and took CJ3

U and me both. I just can't get over if he doesn't get hurt the opportunity that was there with FWP's injuries this year.

it took steven jackson a few seasons to make a impact, as well as marion barber, as well as larry johnson... dont count mendenhall out just yet. stewart as well as mcfadden have had much more opportunity than him

 

[Gottabesweet]

Wonder what he would fish in a trade? or RBBC Stewart.

 

[chook]

Stewart should be about 4-5 spots lower.

Not in dynasty. He will outlast some of the flash in the pans.

 

[EBF]

Stewart should be about 4-5 spots lower.

Disagree. In the long run, I still think he could be the best RB from this class. He has impressed me the most on the field. I won't bother to rank all the rookies together since rankings are so dependent on league scoring setup and team context, but Forte, Johnson, Slaton, Stewart, Ryan, and Royal look like a clear top 6 in some order. After that I like Felix, Mendenhall, DeSean, Keller, Rice, and maybe Avery. Flacco is also looking like a pretty good player. Johnson, Forte, and Slaton are putting up the best early numbers. Royal, Ryan, Stewart, and Keller look like surefire long term contributors. The latter four are probably the guys I'll be targeting in my dynasty drafts.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

I took Stewart #1 and if I drafted again, I'd do the same thing.

 

[twr]

Stewart should be about 4-5 spots lower.

Disagree. In the long run, I still think he could be the best RB from this class. He has impressed me the most on the field. I won't bother to rank all the rookies together since rankings are so dependent on league scoring setup and team context, but Forte, Johnson, Slaton, Stewart, Ryan, and Royal look like a clear top 6 in some order. After that I like Felix, Mendenhall, DeSean, Keller, Rice, and maybe Avery. Flacco is also looking like a pretty good player. Johnson, Forte, and Slaton are putting up the best early numbers. Royal, Ryan, Stewart, and Keller look like surefire long term contributors. The latter four are probably the guys I'll be targeting in my dynasty drafts.

i wasnt a big fan of stewart when he came out, but i saw him monday night stiff arm a DB and it was pretty amazing. i was pretty sure mendenhall would be the best back out of this draft, and that could happen. i had then ranked mendenhall, forte, mcfadden, cj3, then stewart. but from the looks of it i think stewart will be the best back for sure.

 

[FUBAR]

Stewart should be about 4-5 spots lower.

Not in dynasty. He will outlast some of the flash in the pans.

That's what I'm thinking. I probably have Hightower too high, but I put him up there because many people around here seemed to like him. FWIW, I wouldn't draft him there, so maybe I should move him down instead of trying to make this what I think would happen, make this what I would do. Smith, Rice, Keller, Carlson, BGE, Avery and Bess will be in the 2nd round. Hillis and BGE probably will be as well, but may not be ahead of some of the top IDPs.

 

[Ted Lange as your Bartender]

Stewart should be about 4-5 spots lower.

Disagree. In the long run, I still think he could be the best RB from this class. He has impressed me the most on the field. I won't bother to rank all the rookies together since rankings are so dependent on league scoring setup and team context, but Forte, Johnson, Slaton, Stewart, Ryan, and Royal look like a clear top 6 in some order. After that I like Felix, Mendenhall, DeSean, Keller, Rice, and maybe Avery. Flacco is also looking like a pretty good player. Johnson, Forte, and Slaton are putting up the best early numbers. Royal, Ryan, Stewart, and Keller look like surefire long term contributors. The latter four are probably the guys I'll be targeting in my dynasty drafts.

I'm a Stewart keeper league owner (keep-7 league), and last night was the first time I really got to watch him in depth all year. And he definitely passes the eye test - he's the total package. He's big, but he's a glider. Doesn't look all that fast until you realize that he gained 20 yards in the blink of an eye. And that stiffarm on Barber was absolutely SICK.Obviously, the concerns are:1. How long is he the "2" back in Carolina's 1-2 punch? Next year only? 2009 and 2010? Is it possible he doesn't reach total stud status untill 2011, if ever?2. Can he even handle the load of a bellcow RB? He wasn't exactly the picture of durability at Oregon and he's already been dinged up in limited work this year.

 

[awesomeness]

Someone will be getting a steal with James Hardy in the 2nd round.

 

[Burning Sensation]

1. Forte

2. CJ

3. Mcfadden

4. Stewart

5. Slaton

6. Ryan

7. Smith

8. Royal

9. Jones

10. Flacco

11. Avery

12. Jackson

13. Rice

14. Keller

15. Mendenhall

16. Hardy

17. Thomas

18. Carlson

19. Morgan

20. Douglas

 

[bumpman]

So mad I wasted my 1.3 on Mendenhall. 1.2 on Stewart is a spotty start too, I wish I had taken Forte at 1.3 or traded down and took CJ3

U and me both. I just can't get over if he doesn't get hurt the opportunity that was there with FWP's injuries this year.

it took steven jackson a few seasons to make a impact, as well as marion barber, as well as larry johnson... dont count mendenhall out just yet. stewart as well as mcfadden have had much more opportunity than him

Not to quibble, but it took Marion Barber half a season before making an impact. By mid-season of his rookie year he had forced a RBBC.

 

[gheemony]

Why is McFadden so high on a couple of lists? I only have him on a team because he came a dirt cheap price. Otherwise, I'd stay away.

 

[Burning Sensation]

Why is McFadden so high on a couple of lists? I only have him on a team because he came a dirt cheap price. Otherwise, I'd stay away.

4.6 YPC this year while playing with turf toe, and should be healthy and carrying the load for the Raiders next year. Not to mention, he was one of the most talented RB's to come out of college that i have ever seen, and was a top 5 pick.

 

[FUBAR]

Why is McFadden so high on a couple of lists? I only have him on a team because he came a dirt cheap price. Otherwise, I'd stay away.

4.6 YPC this year while playing with turf toe, and should be healthy and carrying the load for the Raiders next year. Not to mention, he was one of the most talented RB's to come out of college that i have ever seen, and was a top 5 pick.

bottom line right there. sure he might bust, but he has the talent to be among the best in the league.

 

[Kitrick Taylor]

1. CJ.....Looks like a special talent.

2. Stewart....Didn't see DeAngelo coming, but Stewart hasn't disappointed with his talent. Injury concerns haven't dissapated.

3. Ryan.....I play in a 6 pt TD league for QBs. Ryan looks like a good one. Wish I had him.

4. Slaton....Still not 100% on staying power, but can't argue with what he's done.

5. Forte.....Same as Slaton.

6. Royal.....I got him in RD 2 and couldn't be happier with the pick. Will finish top 20 in his rookie year.

7. F. Jones....To me he looks special. Barbers' contract is the only reason I have him #7 instead of #2/3

8. Flacco.....Good looking young QB. Not sure of upside yet, but he's got a real shot.

9. McFadden....Was never truly sold on him, and going to the Raiders leads me to believe in plenty of disappointing seasons. Has talent though.

10. Rice.....Natural runner, and may be my target this offseason. McClain is a problem that may not go away however.

11. D. Jackson.....Not as sold as I am on Royal, but explosiveness is there. Durability/relability? Not sure yet.

12. K. Smith....Yet to be seen whether or not the Lions improve at any point during his career.

13. Keller.....Like his talent, and think he'll be good for quite a while. Yet to be seen what Jets do post Favre at QB. Could have huge effect on Keller.

14. Mendenhall....Great place for a RB to go. To bad every rookie sign pointed toward bust. If he doesn't show well by midseason next year.....

15. Avery....Haven't watched any Rams football this year.

16. Morgan.....Dunno if Martz will stick in SF. Could be key to Morgans' development in the next couple of years. I like his chances.

17. Carlson.....Can't argue with the production or talent. Will new system post Holmgren be as TE friendly?

18. Hightower.....Looks good, not great. Still best back on a very good offense right now.

19. D. Thomas....Looks the part, and at least getting some action in his rookie year.

20. J. Hardy....Somebody has to help Lee Evans at some point right?

 

[az_prof]

I know Forte and CJ have had the best rookie seasons, but I wouldn't trade Stewart straight up for either one--not even close. He has the ability to be a truly great back. You can't judge a rookie class after one season. I remember when Anthony A-Train Thomas was the rookie of the year.

Stewart should be about 4-5 spots lower.

Disagree. In the long run, I still think he could be the best RB from this class. He has impressed me the most on the field. I won't bother to rank all the rookies together since rankings are so dependent on league scoring setup and team context, but Forte, Johnson, Slaton, Stewart, Ryan, and Royal look like a clear top 6 in some order. After that I like Felix, Mendenhall, DeSean, Keller, Rice, and maybe Avery. Flacco is also looking like a pretty good player. Johnson, Forte, and Slaton are putting up the best early numbers. Royal, Ryan, Stewart, and Keller look like surefire long term contributors. The latter four are probably the guys I'll be targeting in my dynasty drafts.

i wasnt a big fan of stewart when he came out, but i saw him monday night stiff arm a DB and it was pretty amazing. i was pretty sure mendenhall would be the best back out of this draft, and that could happen. i had then ranked mendenhall, forte, mcfadden, cj3, then stewart. but from the looks of it i think stewart will be the best back for sure.

 

[Burning Sensation]

I know Forte and CJ have had the best rookie seasons, but I wouldn't trade Stewart straight up for either one--not even close. He has the ability to be a truly great back. You can't judge a rookie class after one season. I remember when Anthony A-Train Thomas was the rookie of the year.

Stewart should be about 4-5 spots lower.

Disagree. In the long run, I still think he could be the best RB from this class. He has impressed me the most on the field. I won't bother to rank all the rookies together since rankings are so dependent on league scoring setup and team context, but Forte, Johnson, Slaton, Stewart, Ryan, and Royal look like a clear top 6 in some order. After that I like Felix, Mendenhall, DeSean, Keller, Rice, and maybe Avery. Flacco is also looking like a pretty good player. Johnson, Forte, and Slaton are putting up the best early numbers. Royal, Ryan, Stewart, and Keller look like surefire long term contributors. The latter four are probably the guys I'll be targeting in my dynasty drafts.

i wasnt a big fan of stewart when he came out, but i saw him monday night stiff arm a DB and it was pretty amazing. i was pretty sure mendenhall would be the best back out of this draft, and that could happen. i had then ranked mendenhall, forte, mcfadden, cj3, then stewart. but from the looks of it i think stewart will be the best back for sure.

I like Stewart as much as the next guy, but what have you seen from him that makes you think he is clearly better than Forte or CJ, or less likely to be the next Anthony Thomas?

 

[footballguy#1]

I know Forte and CJ have had the best rookie seasons, but I wouldn't trade Stewart straight up for either one--not even close. He has the ability to be a truly great back. You can't judge a rookie class after one season. I remember when Anthony A-Train Thomas was the rookie of the year.

Stewart should be about 4-5 spots lower.

Disagree. In the long run, I still think he could be the best RB from this class. He has impressed me the most on the field. I won't bother to rank all the rookies together since rankings are so dependent on league scoring setup and team context, but Forte, Johnson, Slaton, Stewart, Ryan, and Royal look like a clear top 6 in some order. After that I like Felix, Mendenhall, DeSean, Keller, Rice, and maybe Avery. Flacco is also looking like a pretty good player. Johnson, Forte, and Slaton are putting up the best early numbers. Royal, Ryan, Stewart, and Keller look like surefire long term contributors. The latter four are probably the guys I'll be targeting in my dynasty drafts.

i wasnt a big fan of stewart when he came out, but i saw him monday night stiff arm a DB and it was pretty amazing. i was pretty sure mendenhall would be the best back out of this draft, and that could happen. i had then ranked mendenhall, forte, mcfadden, cj3, then stewart. but from the looks of it i think stewart will be the best back for sure.

I like Stewart as much as the next guy, but what have you seen from him that makes you think he is clearly better than Forte or CJ, or less likely to be the next Anthony Thomas?

Especially with Deangelo Williams looking even better than Stewart. Don't forget that Williams was also a first round pick, just a year older than Stewart.

 

[EBF]

Why is McFadden so high on a couple of lists? I only have him on a team because he came a dirt cheap price. Otherwise, I'd stay away.

4.6 YPC this year while playing with turf toe, and should be healthy and carrying the load for the Raiders next year. Not to mention, he was one of the most talented RB's to come out of college that i have ever seen, and was a top 5 pick.

bottom line right there. sure he might bust, but he has the talent to be among the best in the league.

If it wasn't for his draft pedigree, I don't think anyone would feel this way. We get the Raiders games here because they're one of the local teams. McFadden hasn't looked very good. Maybe it's the turf toe or maybe he just isn't getting enough looks, but if you watched them games then I don't think you'd agree that he "has the talent to be among the best in the league."Some people will take this with a grain of salt coming from me, but I think most Raider homers would probably agree. DMC had the huge game against a pitiful Chiefs team. Otherwise he's been pretty invisible.

 

[chook]

Especially with Deangelo Williams looking even better than Stewart. Don't forget that Williams was also a first round pick, just a year older than Stewart.

Err, make that almost four years there brother.

 

[EBF]

I know Forte and CJ have had the best rookie seasons, but I wouldn't trade Stewart straight up for either one--not even close. He has the ability to be a truly great back. You can't judge a rookie class after one season. I remember when Anthony A-Train Thomas was the rookie of the year.

Stewart should be about 4-5 spots lower.

Disagree. In the long run, I still think he could be the best RB from this class. He has impressed me the most on the field. I won't bother to rank all the rookies together since rankings are so dependent on league scoring setup and team context, but Forte, Johnson, Slaton, Stewart, Ryan, and Royal look like a clear top 6 in some order. After that I like Felix, Mendenhall, DeSean, Keller, Rice, and maybe Avery. Flacco is also looking like a pretty good player. Johnson, Forte, and Slaton are putting up the best early numbers. Royal, Ryan, Stewart, and Keller look like surefire long term contributors. The latter four are probably the guys I'll be targeting in my dynasty drafts.

i wasnt a big fan of stewart when he came out, but i saw him monday night stiff arm a DB and it was pretty amazing. i was pretty sure mendenhall would be the best back out of this draft, and that could happen. i had then ranked mendenhall, forte, mcfadden, cj3, then stewart. but from the looks of it i think stewart will be the best back for sure.

I like Stewart as much as the next guy, but what have you seen from him that makes you think he is clearly better than Forte or CJ, or less likely to be the next Anthony Thomas?

I think it's a gut call. CJ, Forte, Slaton, and Stewart have all been impressive this season. There's no easy obvious way to say one of these guys is better than the other. I think you just have to go by what your eyeballs tell you. Personally, I think Stewart is the total package. Power, speed, quickness. The kid has it all. I think he has a chance to be a special back.A-Train was a second round pick with borderline physical ability. I think all four of these rookie backs are probably better than him, although I won't be surprised to see 1-2 of them regress. How do you figure out who's a fraud? It's never easy. A few years ago I had Kevin Jones and Julius Jones on one of my dynasty teams. After their rookie seasons, I thought they'd both be studs for years to come. So did a lot of other folks. It's easy in hindsight to say I should've sold high, but when your the guy holding a 21 year old RB who looks studly right out of the gate, it's hard to make that decision.

 

[EBF]

Obviously, the concerns are:1. How long is he the "2" back in Carolina's 1-2 punch? Next year only? 2009 and 2010? Is it possible he doesn't reach total stud status untill 2011, if ever?2. Can he even handle the load of a bellcow RB? He wasn't exactly the picture of durability at Oregon and he's already been dinged up in limited work this year.

1. This is the big issue for me. If he's in a RBBC, his value will always be limited. This is the only thing that's preventing Stewart from reaching consensus top 5 dynasty status. 2. I don't like to build dynasty teams around RBs because they simply don't stay good for long. Unless you get really lucky and land a Portis or Tomlinson type of player, you have to expect a very short career peak. Look at the first round of my first dynasty draft back in 2003. It's almost comical now:1. RB LaDainian Tomlinson2. RB Ricky Williams3. RB Clinton Portis4. RB Deuce McAllister5. RB Edgerrin James6. RB Marshall Faulk7. RB Shaun Alexander8. RB Priest Holmes9. RB Travis Henry10. QB Michael Vick11. RB Ahman Green12. RB Tiki BarberFive years later, only two of these guys are still contributing to FF teams. NFL = Not For Long.I think it's dangerous to use a longview with RBs. They get hurt and get old. So my attitude is that you should take what you can get right away and plan on reloading at this position every couple years. If you think Jonathan Stewart is a stud, don't let the injury issue be a dealbreaker. Take him, enjoy the production while it lasts, and cut bait as soon as you suspect a decline.

 

[FUBAR]

Why is McFadden so high on a couple of lists? I only have him on a team because he came a dirt cheap price. Otherwise, I'd stay away.

4.6 YPC this year while playing with turf toe, and should be healthy and carrying the load for the Raiders next year. Not to mention, he was one of the most talented RB's to come out of college that i have ever seen, and was a top 5 pick.

bottom line right there. sure he might bust, but he has the talent to be among the best in the league.

If it wasn't for his draft pedigree, I don't think anyone would feel this way. We get the Raiders games here because they're one of the local teams. McFadden hasn't looked very good. Maybe it's the turf toe or maybe he just isn't getting enough looks, but if you watched them games then I don't think you'd agree that he "has the talent to be among the best in the league."Some people will take this with a grain of salt coming from me, but I think most Raider homers would probably agree. DMC had the huge game against a pitiful Chiefs team. Otherwise he's been pretty invisible.

I realize it's just college, but did you actually watch him play in college?

 

[Burning Sensation]

Why is McFadden so high on a couple of lists? I only have him on a team because he came a dirt cheap price. Otherwise, I'd stay away.

4.6 YPC this year while playing with turf toe, and should be healthy and carrying the load for the Raiders next year. Not to mention, he was one of the most talented RB's to come out of college that i have ever seen, and was a top 5 pick.

bottom line right there. sure he might bust, but he has the talent to be among the best in the league.

If it wasn't for his draft pedigree, I don't think anyone would feel this way. We get the Raiders games here because they're one of the local teams. McFadden hasn't looked very good. Maybe it's the turf toe or maybe he just isn't getting enough looks, but if you watched them games then I don't think you'd agree that he "has the talent to be among the best in the league."Some people will take this with a grain of salt coming from me, but I think most Raider homers would probably agree. DMC had the huge game against a pitiful Chiefs team. Otherwise he's been pretty invisible.

I realize it's just college, but did you actually watch him play in college?

Dont bother. Mcfadden was better in college, drafted higher, and looked better to this point in the pros than Mendenhall, but EBF will still tell you Mendenhall is the better player. I dont blame him, it is normal to stick by your guns until you are completely proven wrong. Same can be said about me and Mcfadden, but if Mcfadden has looked bad this year, despite playing with turf toe, than Mendenhall has looked horrible, and he was healthy.If you are looking for good things out of a player, you will probably find them. If you are looking for bad things from a player, you will surely see that too. Thats why you have to be careful with what info you take from here, as everyone is biased. Sometimes people might even try to mask their bias by occasionally throwing in something bad about their player, but thats usually only done to give their positive statements some credibility.

 

[EBF]

Dont bother. Mcfadden was better in college, drafted higher, and looked better to this point in the pros than Mendenhall, but EBF will still tell you Mendenhall is the better player. I dont blame him, it is normal to stick by your guns until you are completely proven wrong. Same can be said about me and Mcfadden, but if Mcfadden has looked bad this year, despite playing with turf toe, than Mendenhall has looked horrible, and he was healthy.

This idea that Mendenhall "looked horrible" this year is an opinion that you've routinely stated as fact. He had a mediocre preseason and got hurt in the regular season before he really had a chance to show his skills. He remains largely an unknown.

If you are looking for good things out of a player, you will probably find them. If you are looking for bad things from a player, you will surely see that too. Thats why you have to be careful with what info you take from here, as everyone is biased. Sometimes people might even try to mask their bias by occasionally throwing in something bad about their player, but thats usually only done to give their positive statements some credibility.

I call it like I see it. I ripped on guys like Slaton and Forte in the offseason, but I acknowledge that they've been impressive.McFadden hasn't looked good. Ask any Raider fan and you'll probably hear the exact same thing.

 

[Burning Sensation]

Dont bother. Mcfadden was better in college, drafted higher, and looked better to this point in the pros than Mendenhall, but EBF will still tell you Mendenhall is the better player. I dont blame him, it is normal to stick by your guns until you are completely proven wrong. Same can be said about me and Mcfadden, but if Mcfadden has looked bad this year, despite playing with turf toe, than Mendenhall has looked horrible, and he was healthy.

This idea that Mendenhall "looked horrible" this year is an opinion that you've routinely stated as fact. He had a mediocre preseason and got hurt in the regular season before he really had a chance to show his skills. He remains largely an unknown.

If you are looking for good things out of a player, you will probably find them. If you are looking for bad things from a player, you will surely see that too. Thats why you have to be careful with what info you take from here, as everyone is biased. Sometimes people might even try to mask their bias by occasionally throwing in something bad about their player, but thats usually only done to give their positive statements some credibility.

I call it like I see it. I ripped on guys like Slaton and Forte in the offseason, but I acknowledge that they've been impressive.McFadden hasn't looked good. Ask any Raider fan and you'll probably hear the exact same thing.

I agree you call it how you see it. I am just saying people see what they want to see. Mcfadden hasnt looked great by any means, but he has been playing with turf toe, and is still managing 4.6 YPC. As far as Mendenhall not looking good, that is what i have seen, so to me, that is fact. Its obvious we see things differently, but i liked Mendenhall until i got to see him play at the NFL level, you have hated Mcfadden before he ever played a down in the NFL.

 

[FUBAR]

Dont bother. Mcfadden was better in college, drafted higher, and looked better to this point in the pros than Mendenhall, but EBF will still tell you Mendenhall is the better player. I dont blame him, it is normal to stick by your guns until you are completely proven wrong. Same can be said about me and Mcfadden, but if Mcfadden has looked bad this year, despite playing with turf toe, than Mendenhall has looked horrible, and he was healthy.

This idea that Mendenhall "looked horrible" this year is an opinion that you've routinely stated as fact. He had a mediocre preseason and got hurt in the regular season before he really had a chance to show his skills. He remains largely an unknown.

If you are looking for good things out of a player, you will probably find them. If you are looking for bad things from a player, you will surely see that too. Thats why you have to be careful with what info you take from here, as everyone is biased. Sometimes people might even try to mask their bias by occasionally throwing in something bad about their player, but thats usually only done to give their positive statements some credibility.

I call it like I see it. I ripped on guys like Slaton and Forte in the offseason, but I acknowledge that they've been impressive.McFadden hasn't looked good. Ask any Raider fan and you'll probably hear the exact same thing.

I agree you call it how you see it. I am just saying people see what they want to see. Mcfadden hasnt looked great by any means, but he has been playing with turf toe, and is still managing 4.6 YPC. As far as Mendenhall not looking good, that is what i have seen, so to me, that is fact. Its obvious we see things differently, but i liked Mendenhall until i got to see him play at the NFL level, you have hated Mcfadden before he ever played a down in the NFL.

How's that now? He's had a total of 19 carries and 2 receptions. We haven't really seen him play at the NFL level.

 

[Burning Sensation]

Dont bother. Mcfadden was better in college, drafted higher, and looked better to this point in the pros than Mendenhall, but EBF will still tell you Mendenhall is the better player. I dont blame him, it is normal to stick by your guns until you are completely proven wrong. Same can be said about me and Mcfadden, but if Mcfadden has looked bad this year, despite playing with turf toe, than Mendenhall has looked horrible, and he was healthy.

This idea that Mendenhall "looked horrible" this year is an opinion that you've routinely stated as fact. He had a mediocre preseason and got hurt in the regular season before he really had a chance to show his skills. He remains largely an unknown.

If you are looking for good things out of a player, you will probably find them. If you are looking for bad things from a player, you will surely see that too. Thats why you have to be careful with what info you take from here, as everyone is biased. Sometimes people might even try to mask their bias by occasionally throwing in something bad about their player, but thats usually only done to give their positive statements some credibility.

I call it like I see it. I ripped on guys like Slaton and Forte in the offseason, but I acknowledge that they've been impressive.McFadden hasn't looked good. Ask any Raider fan and you'll probably hear the exact same thing.

I agree you call it how you see it. I am just saying people see what they want to see. Mcfadden hasnt looked great by any means, but he has been playing with turf toe, and is still managing 4.6 YPC. As far as Mendenhall not looking good, that is what i have seen, so to me, that is fact. Its obvious we see things differently, but i liked Mendenhall until i got to see him play at the NFL level, you have hated Mcfadden before he ever played a down in the NFL.

How's that now? He's had a total of 19 carries and 2 receptions. We haven't really seen him play at the NFL level.

I saw enough in the preseason to make me more than skeptical, particularly after the training camp reports. Im not saying i might not be wrong, but i trust my eyes and judgment more than anyones on this board.

 

[awesomeness]

Dont bother. Mcfadden was better in college, drafted higher, and looked better to this point in the pros than Mendenhall, but EBF will still tell you Mendenhall is the better player. I dont blame him, it is normal to stick by your guns until you are completely proven wrong. Same can be said about me and Mcfadden, but if Mcfadden has looked bad this year, despite playing with turf toe, than Mendenhall has looked horrible, and he was healthy.

This idea that Mendenhall "looked horrible" this year is an opinion that you've routinely stated as fact. He had a mediocre preseason and got hurt in the regular season before he really had a chance to show his skills. He remains largely an unknown.

If you are looking for good things out of a player, you will probably find them. If you are looking for bad things from a player, you will surely see that too. Thats why you have to be careful with what info you take from here, as everyone is biased. Sometimes people might even try to mask their bias by occasionally throwing in something bad about their player, but thats usually only done to give their positive statements some credibility.

I call it like I see it. I ripped on guys like Slaton and Forte in the offseason, but I acknowledge that they've been impressive.McFadden hasn't looked good. Ask any Raider fan and you'll probably hear the exact same thing.

I agree you call it how you see it. I am just saying people see what they want to see. Mcfadden hasnt looked great by any means, but he has been playing with turf toe, and is still managing 4.6 YPC. As far as Mendenhall not looking good, that is what i have seen, so to me, that is fact. Its obvious we see things differently, but i liked Mendenhall until i got to see him play at the NFL level, you have hated Mcfadden before he ever played a down in the NFL.

How's that now? He's had a total of 19 carries and 2 receptions. We haven't really seen him play at the NFL level.

I saw enough in the preseason to make me more than skeptical, particularly after the training camp reports. Im not saying i might not be wrong, but i trust my eyes and judgment more than anyones on this board.

your basing your judgement on preseason? Preseason? Really?I'm not fighting for either 'side' here, but preseason should be taken with nothing more than a grain of salt.

 

[Burning Sensation]

Dont bother. Mcfadden was better in college, drafted higher, and looked better to this point in the pros than Mendenhall, but EBF will still tell you Mendenhall is the better player. I dont blame him, it is normal to stick by your guns until you are completely proven wrong. Same can be said about me and Mcfadden, but if Mcfadden has looked bad this year, despite playing with turf toe, than Mendenhall has looked horrible, and he was healthy.

This idea that Mendenhall "looked horrible" this year is an opinion that you've routinely stated as fact. He had a mediocre preseason and got hurt in the regular season before he really had a chance to show his skills. He remains largely an unknown.

If you are looking for good things out of a player, you will probably find them. If you are looking for bad things from a player, you will surely see that too. Thats why you have to be careful with what info you take from here, as everyone is biased. Sometimes people might even try to mask their bias by occasionally throwing in something bad about their player, but thats usually only done to give their positive statements some credibility.

I call it like I see it. I ripped on guys like Slaton and Forte in the offseason, but I acknowledge that they've been impressive.McFadden hasn't looked good. Ask any Raider fan and you'll probably hear the exact same thing.

I agree you call it how you see it. I am just saying people see what they want to see. Mcfadden hasnt looked great by any means, but he has been playing with turf toe, and is still managing 4.6 YPC. As far as Mendenhall not looking good, that is what i have seen, so to me, that is fact. Its obvious we see things differently, but i liked Mendenhall until i got to see him play at the NFL level, you have hated Mcfadden before he ever played a down in the NFL.

How's that now? He's had a total of 19 carries and 2 receptions. We haven't really seen him play at the NFL level.

I saw enough in the preseason to make me more than skeptical, particularly after the training camp reports. Im not saying i might not be wrong, but i trust my eyes and judgment more than anyones on this board.

your basing your judgement on preseason? Preseason? Really?I'm not fighting for either 'side' here, but preseason should be taken with nothing more than a grain of salt.

Partly, yes. I havnt completely written him off, but i like his chances less than the top 7-8 rookie backs from this season.ETA, I also partly based my judgment of Steve Slaton, Chris Johnson, and Eddie Royal based on the preseason. I dont think i was the only one who thought better of those guys and others based on the preseason either.

 

[EBF]

For some strange reason, Burning Sensation took my harsh offseason criticisms of McFadden personally. Ever since then he's shadowed my posts and constantly brought up Mendenhall (like he did earlier in this thread) because I had RM ranked number one on my rookie board. BS was singing this "Mendenhall = bust" tune before Rashard even had a single preseason carry.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...410981&st=0

Between the rumors of him almost quitting football, only one really good year at college, sliding to the end of round one, being drafted after Felix Jones, and less than spectacular news out of camp. Not to mention the fact that he is in a true RBBC for the forseeable future, i am starting to think Mendenhall might be the RB bust of this draft.

I think he summed it up nicely earlier in this thread:

If you are looking for good things out of a player, you will probably find them. If you are looking for bad things from a player, you will surely see that too.

BS has been predisposed to view Mendenhall as a failure all along. I don't put any stock in the hollow justifications he offers for his opinion.

 

[Burning Sensation]

For some strange reason, Burning Sensation took my harsh offseason criticisms of McFadden personally. Ever since then he's shadowed my posts and constantly brought up Mendenhall (like he did earlier in this thread) because I had RM ranked number one on my rookie board. BS was singing this "Mendenhall = bust" tune before Rashard even had a single preseason carry.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...410981&st=0

Between the rumors of him almost quitting football, only one really good year at college, sliding to the end of round one, being drafted after Felix Jones, and less than spectacular news out of camp. Not to mention the fact that he is in a true RBBC for the forseeable future, i am starting to think Mendenhall might be the RB bust of this draft.

I think he summed it up nicely earlier in this thread:

If you are looking for good things out of a player, you will probably find them. If you are looking for bad things from a player, you will surely see that too.

BS has been predisposed to view Mendenhall as a failure all along. I don't put any stock in the hollow justifications he offers for his opinion.

Wow, somebody thinks highly of themselves. Shadowing you? Just because we often post in the same threads, and i disagree with you sometimes doesnt mean i am shadowing you. I could care less about what you think of Mcfadden, i certainly dont take it personally. Why dont i bump the multiple posts of mine about Mcfadden that you have bumped with a smiley face whenever he had a bad game?I stick by those reasons for not being high on Mendenhall, and he has done nothing since to change my mind. Bet the people who did rookie drafts after i posted that wish they would have listened to me. Why dont we bump some of the things you said in the summer about Slaton or CJ, or any of the low BMI guys?

BS has been predisposed to view Mendenhall as a failure all along. I don't put any stock in the hollow justifications he offers for his opinion.

Whats the difference with how i feel about Mendenhall and you about Mcfadden?I admitted sometimes judging players biasedly, maybe if you did the same, at least to yourself, you would see things more clearly.

I didnt dislike Mendenhall, until the things i posted in August started adding up.

 

[EBF]

Wow, somebody thinks highly of themselves. Shadowing you? Just because we often post in the same threads, and i disagree with you sometimes doesnt mean i am shadowing you. I could care less about what you think of Mcfadden, i certainly dont take it personally. Why dont i bump the multiple posts of mine about Mcfadden that you have bumped with a smiley face whenever he had a bad game?

Almost every time I post something about McFadden, you bring up Mendenhall, even when no one else is talking about him (like you did in this thread).

I stick by those reasons for not being high on Mendenhall, and he has done nothing since to change my mind.

If you don't like him, you don't like him. The problem is that you fabricate flimsy arguments to support your opinion (i.e. that he must not be good because he split carries with Pierre Thomas, because he slipped to the late first round, because he was picked after Felix Jones, because he was bad in training camp, and because he was horrible in the preseason). Then you start to parade these fabrications as facts.

Bet the people who did rookie drafts after i posted that wish they would have listened to me. Why dont we bump some of the things you said in the summer about Slaton or CJ, or any of the low BMI guys?

I was off the mark on those guys and I've admitted it. They have both moved up in my estimation, especially Slaton.

Also, i admitted sometimes judging players biasedly, maybe if you did the same, at least to yourself, you would see things more clearly.

We're allowed to have an opinion. It's only bias if you stick with that opinion in the face of strong contrary evidence, which I rarely do.

 

[twr]

Wow, somebody thinks highly of themselves. Shadowing you? Just because we often post in the same threads, and i disagree with you sometimes doesnt mean i am shadowing you. I could care less about what you think of Mcfadden, i certainly dont take it personally. Why dont i bump the multiple posts of mine about Mcfadden that you have bumped with a smiley face whenever he had a bad game?

Almost every time I post something about McFadden, you bring up Mendenhall, even when no one else is talking about him (like you did in this thread).

I stick by those reasons for not being high on Mendenhall, and he has done nothing since to change my mind.

If you don't like him, you don't like him. The problem is that you fabricate flimsy arguments to support your opinion (i.e. that he must not be good because he split carries with Pierre Thomas, because he slipped to the late first round, because he was picked after Felix Jones, because he was bad in training camp, and because he was horrible in the preseason). Then you start to parade these fabrications as facts.

Bet the people who did rookie drafts after i posted that wish they would have listened to me. Why dont we bump some of the things you said in the summer about Slaton or CJ, or any of the low BMI guys?

I was off the mark on those guys and I've admitted it. They have both moved up in my estimation, especially Slaton.

Also, i admitted sometimes judging players biasedly, maybe if you did the same, at least to yourself, you would see things more clearly.

We're allowed to have an opinion. It's only bias if you stick with that opinion in the face of strong contrary evidence, which I rarely do.

agreed. i wasnt high on stewart, now i am. i also wasnt very high on johnson... now i was really high on forte, mendenhall, ryan, devin thomas, dmac, royal! 3/8 isnt too bad!youre going to hit or miss, and you will never be right 100% of the time, let alone hardly 50% of the time. there are alot of factors that will influence how a player does... and anyone who drafted braylon edwards a few years back expecting high expectations before last year thought he was a bust... ( even though this year was bad..) . i say a few of these guys just need some time.. i still think thomas and mendenhall will come through.

 

[Burning Sensation]

Wow, somebody thinks highly of themselves. Shadowing you? Just because we often post in the same threads, and i disagree with you sometimes doesnt mean i am shadowing you. I could care less about what you think of Mcfadden, i certainly dont take it personally. Why dont i bump the multiple posts of mine about Mcfadden that you have bumped with a smiley face whenever he had a bad game?

Almost every time I post something about McFadden, you bring up Mendenhall, even when no one else is talking about him (like you did in this thread).

I stick by those reasons for not being high on Mendenhall, and he has done nothing since to change my mind.

If you don't like him, you don't like him. The problem is that you fabricate flimsy arguments to support your opinion (i.e. that he must not be good because he split carries with Pierre Thomas, because he slipped to the late first round, because he was picked after Felix Jones, because he was bad in training camp, and because he was horrible in the preseason). Then you start to parade these fabrications as facts.

Bet the people who did rookie drafts after i posted that wish they would have listened to me. Why dont we bump some of the things you said in the summer about Slaton or CJ, or any of the low BMI guys?

I was off the mark on those guys and I've admitted it. They have both moved up in my estimation, especially Slaton.

Also, i admitted sometimes judging players biasedly, maybe if you did the same, at least to yourself, you would see things more clearly.

We're allowed to have an opinion. It's only bias if you stick with that opinion in the face of strong contrary evidence, which I rarely do.

Thats not bias, thats ignorance. Bias is when you allow your original opinion to blind you to any evidence, no matter how significant.