What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Dynasty Draft Calculator (1 Viewer)

thanks. is it supposed to be in Excel?
yes - that's what I "wrote" it in.
cool just making sure i got the right thing. I have the 1.01 and i'm sure this is gonna open up a huge can of worms for some of my leaguemates.Using the calculator it says:1.01for 1.04/1.05is fairly similar do you think that is correct? not compaining just tryna get a feel or maybe there is some kind of science that I dont know.
 
Very cool.

It would be neat if there was also a value for current NFL players...so you could plug in players value to see how fair a trade is. Maybe by using the dynasty rankings and awarding values based on those rankings.

 
thanks. is it supposed to be in Excel?
yes - that's what I "wrote" it in.
cool just making sure i got the right thing. I have the 1.01 and i'm sure this is gonna open up a huge can of worms for some of my leaguemates.Using the calculator it says:1.01for 1.04/1.05is fairly similar do you think that is correct? not compaining just tryna get a feel or maybe there is some kind of science that I dont know.
The more I have test driven it, the more accurate I feel it is.1.04/1.05 for 1.01 is about right.Feel free to look around the site - there's a thread about "what is a 1.01 going for" around here somewhere.I for one turned down 1.03 and 1.06 in a non-PPR league for 1.01.
 
Very cool. It would be neat if there was also a value for current NFL players...so you could plug in players value to see how fair a trade is. Maybe by using the dynasty rankings and awarding values based on those rankings.
Take a player's ADP - use whatever ranking you like - and plug that into Dodds' redraft calculator.For example, if you want to know what player #50 is worth, just plug it in and get his points.That might be a basis for comparison for you.It's tough though. The rule of thumb I use for rookie picks are:A. 1 round for every slot (i.e. 1.01 = a (late) first, 1.02 = a 2nd, 1.03 = a third) in a startup Dynasty draftB. Subtract a round for every year removed (i.e. a 2007 3rd = 2008 2nd = 2009 1st).
 
12 team dynasty with IDP, after I plug in the numbers (starters and roster)

I'm drafting at 1.11 and if I wanted to move up to say 1.06, by the DDC, it would cost me all 7 rounds of my draft :shrug:

With the Draft Value system we have in place now, it would only cost a 4th.

Cool concept, but doesn't work for our type of league.

 
Rozelle said:
12 team dynasty with IDP, after I plug in the numbers (starters and roster)I'm drafting at 1.11 and if I wanted to move up to say 1.06, by the DDC, it would cost me all 7 rounds of my draft :( With the Draft Value system we have in place now, it would only cost a 4th.Cool concept, but doesn't work for our type of league.
Then you're getting a bargain.What are the odds that the 43rd and 11th player equal the production of the 6th taken?Even if you say that 43 + 11 = 6, keep in mind that the price you're paying is in a roster spot that another player could occupy.
 
I was looking for the value of non-rookies to compare with your values for rookie draft position.

Lets say I want to trade WR Steve Smith for 2007 draft picks. I know what the value of the picks are with your calculator...but what is Steve Smiths value? I am in a 20 man dynasty. All teams keep 25 players...we start 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 PK, 2 DL, 2 DB, & 2 LB. The draft is the free agents available (ranked 501 +) and rookies...so basically all rookies. Our league does not have contracts.

I think it would be cool to have the top 500 dynasty players (with IDP) ranked with a POINT value. Say Steve Smith is ranked as #23 overall and that is a value of lets say 2400. I then can see what picks he is worth.

So I guess I was wondering if there was anything like that out there???

 
I was looking for the value of non-rookies to compare with your values for rookie draft position.

Lets say I want to trade WR Steve Smith for 2007 draft picks. I know what the value of the picks are with your calculator...but what is Steve Smiths value? I am in a 20 man dynasty. All teams keep 25 players...we start 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 PK, 2 DL, 2 DB, & 2 LB. The draft is the free agents available (ranked 501 +) and rookies...so basically all rookies. Our league does not have contracts.

I think it would be cool to have the top 500 dynasty players (with IDP) ranked with a POINT value. Say Steve Smith is ranked as #23 overall and that is a value of lets say 2400. I then can see what picks he is worth.

So I guess I was wondering if there was anything like that out there???
RUN HARD,I can see the value in what you are asking, but you have to understand that your list request is VERY league specific.

How do you make a list to account for all of the variables?

There is

League Size
Scoring Rules
Lineups
Starters
Number of Teams
PPR / No PPR
IDP
Bench Size
Number of teams in your league (10? 12? 14? 16?)Just to name a few. There's no way to make a list and assign points without defining the above things, and then you might just dismiss the list because it doesn't match your league setup.

So what can you do?

Well, you can take the FBG Dynasty Rankings as a basis point and then start to tweak them to your league. Or you can rank your own players, or look for a league that just started up (with IDP - look for the Red Dog league link here in the SP for an example) to see what the general ADP is for each player.

Translate that ranking or ADP to a number. You can use the Dodds' redraft calculator (link above) or just decide on your own.

Straightforward? No. Easy? No. But this is Dynasty - there's no easy answer out there, but that is part of the challenge in playing in the more complex leagues.

 
I was looking for the value of non-rookies to compare with your values for rookie draft position.

Lets say I want to trade WR Steve Smith for 2007 draft picks. I know what the value of the picks are with your calculator...but what is Steve Smiths value? I am in a 20 man dynasty. All teams keep 25 players...we start 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 PK, 2 DL, 2 DB, & 2 LB. The draft is the free agents available (ranked 501 +) and rookies...so basically all rookies. Our league does not have contracts.

I think it would be cool to have the top 500 dynasty players (with IDP) ranked with a POINT value. Say Steve Smith is ranked as #23 overall and that is a value of lets say 2400. I then can see what picks he is worth.

So I guess I was wondering if there was anything like that out there???
As for a more direct answer:Player #23 would be 975 points.

Based on your league setup:

1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 PK, 2 DL, 2 DB, & 2 LB, 25 man roster

You didn't mention how many teams, so I'll answer with 12 or 16 teams.

12 teams gives a DYNASTY FACTOR of 4.178, slightly higher than usual (3 to 4 is usual).

Pick 1.05 = 1052 points

Pick 1.06 = 912 points

So Player #23 is worth AT LEAST between Pick 5 or 6.

I say AT LEAST because the value for Player #23 according to Dodds' math is for NEXT YEAR, not for the rest of his career - that is the essence of redraft vs. Dynasty value.

Adjusting for 16 teams:

DYNASTY FACTOR (DF) = 5.571 (VERY high).

Pick 1.04 = 1047 points

Pick 1.05 = 865 points

So between 4 and 5 this time. Same deal - AT LEAST.

Hope that helps.

 
I have no problem using the rankings already out there. They are somewhat close.

My question is, AFTER ranking the non-rookies....how do we assign a value? If the rookie #1 is 1889....then what is the OVERALL #1??? Where does the rookie #1 fit in with the overall? I guess we could look at 2006 players and see where they are NOW ranked on OVERALL. Say Reggie Bush is OVERALL #10. Make #10 Overall = 1889....maybe take years of data to come up with this. Maybe the 2nd best 2006 drafted player was Colston....maybe overal he is 40. Make #40 the same value as rookie #2.

Does this make sense???

 
I have no problem using the rankings already out there. They are somewhat close.

My question is, AFTER ranking the non-rookies....how do we assign a value? If the rookie #1 is 1889....then what is the OVERALL #1??? Where does the rookie #1 fit in with the overall? I guess we could look at 2006 players and see where they are NOW ranked on OVERALL. Say Reggie Bush is OVERALL #10. Make #10 Overall = 1889....maybe take years of data to come up with this. Maybe the 2nd best 2006 drafted player was Colston....maybe overal he is 40. Make #40 the same value as rookie #2.

Does this make sense???
That's an excellent question, and one of the hardest.I think you need to read the Beto article / study that he did.

I'll link it in a moment.

Here it is.

Beto's study

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Rozelle said:
12 team dynasty with IDP, after I plug in the numbers (starters and roster)

I'm drafting at 1.11 and if I wanted to move up to say 1.06, by the DDC, it would cost me all 7 rounds of my draft :nerd:

With the Draft Value system we have in place now, it would only cost a 4th.

Cool concept, but doesn't work for our type of league.
Then you're getting a bargain.What are the odds that the 43rd and 11th player equal the production of the 6th taken?

Even if you say that 43 + 11 = 6, keep in mind that the price you're paying is in a roster spot that another player could occupy.
I agree ... I was just giving a comparison with the draft value system. We're looking for something better and thought I found it with the DDC, until I plugged in the numbers . Can't give 7 draft picks to move up 5 spots. :bag:

 
11 User(s) are reading this topic (2 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)

9 Members: mozzy84, Jeff Pasquino, dirtyhalos, Rounders, Marc Faletti, Ruffrodys05, Q-Bert, RUN HARD, GregR

:nerd:

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Jeff, I applaud the work, but the relationship of roster size being INVERSELY proportional to value seems backwards.

... if you have a deep bench, you can afford to put more rookies on your roster and wait for them to develop, so there is less pressure on you getting your picks right.
This tried to equate "less pressure" to "less value". That isn't correct. Less pressure means "less risk". And less risk means more value, not less, because risk and value are inversely proportional.Let's say that 50% of the time a rookie in the small roster league contributes before needing to be cut. In the bigger roster league the rookies are held longer and so 80% of the time the same rookies contributes before needing to be cut. I hope it's clear that the latter situation has the more valuable pick since 80% of the time you get something of value and in the small league you only get something of value 50% of the time.

Put another way, which are you willing to pay more money to play... a game where 50% of the time you win $100, or a game where 80% of the time you win $100?

Your comments about number of teams in the league bear this out as well:

Number of Teams in the League - As the number of teams increases, the value of the picks increase. Again, this passes the sanity check in that you have fewer draft picks and more teams are fighting for talent. Additionally, more players are rostered in the league and thus fewer talented players are available in free agency.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Jeff - This is a very valuable tool for working out draft pick only trades. I find very little to fault in the way you developed the tool.

However, as has been pointed out in this thread a truly revolutionary tool would allow you to assess the value of trades involving players and picks. I believe this should be fairly simple, as you suggested up thread a great place to start is to simply plug the ADP or player rank into Dodds' redraft calculator. That kind of works except that it seems to me that the way you are determining dynasty pick value is by setting the value of the number one dynasty pick to be equal to the value of the number one redraft pick (1889) and then applying the dynasty factor to determine the value of the remaining dynasty picks.

So if we were to use your suggestion for how to determine Steve Smith's trade value but apply it to LaDanian Tomlinson we would come to the conclusion that LT for the rookie 1.01 was a fair trade.

The solution seems simple and obvious to me. Especially because you linked to Beto's study from 2005. Beto concluded that the 1.01 rookie pick was equivalent to the 2.04 pick in an initial dynasty draft. So it seems to me that if you set the number one pick in your calculator equal to the number sixteen pick from Dodds' calculator, and then applied the dynasty factor you would be able to more reasonably use the two calculators in conjuction with each other.

In fact, if you are going to do that you might as well add an option to the dynasty calculator to include players by inputing their overall rank. That would be a revolutionary tool.

 
I was looking for the value of non-rookies to compare with your values for rookie draft position.

Lets say I want to trade WR Steve Smith for 2007 draft picks. I know what the value of the picks are with your calculator...but what is Steve Smiths value? I am in a 20 man dynasty. All teams keep 25 players...we start 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 PK, 2 DL, 2 DB, & 2 LB. The draft is the free agents available (ranked 501 +) and rookies...so basically all rookies. Our league does not have contracts.

I think it would be cool to have the top 500 dynasty players (with IDP) ranked with a POINT value. Say Steve Smith is ranked as #23 overall and that is a value of lets say 2400. I then can see what picks he is worth.

So I guess I was wondering if there was anything like that out there???
As for a more direct answer:Player #23 would be 975 points.

Based on your league setup:

1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 PK, 2 DL, 2 DB, & 2 LB, 25 man roster

You didn't mention how many teams, so I'll answer with 12 or 16 teams.

12 teams gives a DYNASTY FACTOR of 4.178, slightly higher than usual (3 to 4 is usual).

Pick 1.05 = 1052 points

Pick 1.06 = 912 points

So Player #23 is worth AT LEAST between Pick 5 or 6.

I say AT LEAST because the value for Player #23 according to Dodds' math is for NEXT YEAR, not for the rest of his career - that is the essence of redraft vs. Dynasty value.

Adjusting for 16 teams:

DYNASTY FACTOR (DF) = 5.571 (VERY high).

Pick 1.04 = 1047 points

Pick 1.05 = 865 points

So between 4 and 5 this time. Same deal - AT LEAST.

Hope that helps.
This also addresses the issue I raised about setting the number one picks in dynasty and redraft at the same value number. What this post is really saying is that in a 12 team dynasty league with the above lineup and roster requirements it would be a decent (although not fantastic deal) to trade Steve Smith straight up for Sidney Rice.Steve Smith - #23 overall player - 975 value points

Sidney Rice - #5 rookie player (per Bloom 100) - 1052 value points

Whereas, if you started with the rookie 1.01 being worth closer to the redraft or initial dynasty draft value of the 2.04 (1167 value points). You would probably conclude that Steve Smith is worth about the 1.02 or 1.03 rookie pick. This seems to make sense. Steve Smith for Calvin Johnson or Marshawn Lynch is closer to feeling right.

 
Jeff, I applaud the work, but the relationship of roster size being INVERSELY proportional to value seems backwards.

... if you have a deep bench, you can afford to put more rookies on your roster and wait for them to develop, so there is less pressure on you getting your picks right.
This tried to equate "less pressure" to "less value". That isn't correct. Less pressure means "less risk". And less risk means more value, not less, because risk and value are inversely proportional.Let's say that 50% of the time a rookie in the small roster league contributes before needing to be cut. In the bigger roster league the rookies are held longer and so 80% of the time the same rookies contributes before needing to be cut. I hope it's clear that the latter situation has the more valuable pick since 80% of the time you get something of value and in the small league you only get something of value 50% of the time.

Put another way, which are you willing to pay more money to play... a game where 50% of the time you win $100, or a game where 80% of the time you win $100?

Your comments about number of teams in the league bear this out as well:

Number of Teams in the League - As the number of teams increases, the value of the picks increase. Again, this passes the sanity check in that you have fewer draft picks and more teams are fighting for talent. Additionally, more players are rostered in the league and thus fewer talented players are available in free agency.
GregR,First, I appreciate your comments. You've contributed a great deal around the SP so thanks for reading the article and checking out the tool.

I have to disagree. I thougth long and hard about this tool, and I believe it has the right relationships.

I believe that the disagreement comes from what the numerical value of a pick represents. It is not about the value of the player or the pick itself but more about the RELATIVE value of the pick.

So, in a league where you have 9 starters and just 20 roster spots, there is pressure for your rookies to produce quickly else you have to cut them and move on - you don't have room for projects. As such, if you are going to trade for a 3rd rounder, that pick is far less worthwhile than in a league where you have 25 roster spots. The pick itself has more value if have more time to seek value with it.

In a league where I have to cut players quickly, later picks become less and less valuable. If I have bench space, the value of the pick goes up.

This argument extends to more teams in a league as well. With more teams, it becomes harder to find talent to put on your team. With fewer teams, the value of the waiver wire players rises, so your rookie draft picks aren't as valuable. With 16 teams vs. 12, that's 100+ talented players that won't be available anywhere but in a trade or on Draft Day, so the pick means more.

Therefore, I have the value of picks being higher with MORE teams and MORE roster space because you can get a bigger return / value from that pick than if you have the opposite situation(s).

I hope that clarified my thoughts.

 
Jeff - This is a very valuable tool for working out draft pick only trades. I find very little to fault in the way you developed the tool.However, as has been pointed out in this thread a truly revolutionary tool would allow you to assess the value of trades involving players and picks. I believe this should be fairly simple, as you suggested up thread a great place to start is to simply plug the ADP or player rank into Dodds' redraft calculator. That kind of works except that it seems to me that the way you are determining dynasty pick value is by setting the value of the number one dynasty pick to be equal to the value of the number one redraft pick (1889) and then applying the dynasty factor to determine the value of the remaining dynasty picks. So if we were to use your suggestion for how to determine Steve Smith's trade value but apply it to LaDanian Tomlinson we would come to the conclusion that LT for the rookie 1.01 was a fair trade.The solution seems simple and obvious to me. Especially because you linked to Beto's study from 2005. Beto concluded that the 1.01 rookie pick was equivalent to the 2.04 pick in an initial dynasty draft. So it seems to me that if you set the number one pick in your calculator equal to the number sixteen pick from Dodds' calculator, and then applied the dynasty factor you would be able to more reasonably use the two calculators in conjuction with each other. In fact, if you are going to do that you might as well add an option to the dynasty calculator to include players by inputing their overall rank. That would be a revolutionary tool.
This is a great suggestion, and this is something that I've tried.It sounds simple and straightforward, but the problem always goes back to variables in your league.I'll have to dust off several attempts I had to merge my calculator with Beto's, but IIRC I gave up as I was forcing the math to match his model rather than trying to develop math to predict it.The truth is that Beto's answers are observational, not proof of a theory.Another example of what I was trying to do was the Bye Week Theory I posted on Monday. I gave a theory, then waited for proof. I took historical info and tried to apply it to the future. Yes, I could use Beto's info, but remember - where did he get the info? His league. That's one data point, really, spread out over several years. Info from multiple (or just other) leagues would help, but I don't have it.I could expend tons of hours on this, but I doubt I'd have something more worthwhile than the rule of thumb of 1 round / 1 slot for rookies.Again - ultimately - these are tools to check your own thoughts. No one can say what ADP's or CJ's value is this year but you and someone else you're trying to trade with, so a calculator may not matter much.
 
I was looking for the value of non-rookies to compare with your values for rookie draft position.

Lets say I want to trade WR Steve Smith for 2007 draft picks. I know what the value of the picks are with your calculator...but what is Steve Smiths value? I am in a 20 man dynasty. All teams keep 25 players...we start 1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 PK, 2 DL, 2 DB, & 2 LB. The draft is the free agents available (ranked 501 +) and rookies...so basically all rookies. Our league does not have contracts.

I think it would be cool to have the top 500 dynasty players (with IDP) ranked with a POINT value. Say Steve Smith is ranked as #23 overall and that is a value of lets say 2400. I then can see what picks he is worth.

So I guess I was wondering if there was anything like that out there???
As for a more direct answer:Player #23 would be 975 points.

Based on your league setup:

1 QB, 2 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 PK, 2 DL, 2 DB, & 2 LB, 25 man roster

You didn't mention how many teams, so I'll answer with 12 or 16 teams.

12 teams gives a DYNASTY FACTOR of 4.178, slightly higher than usual (3 to 4 is usual).

Pick 1.05 = 1052 points

Pick 1.06 = 912 points

So Player #23 is worth AT LEAST between Pick 5 or 6.

I say AT LEAST because the value for Player #23 according to Dodds' math is for NEXT YEAR, not for the rest of his career - that is the essence of redraft vs. Dynasty value.

Adjusting for 16 teams:

DYNASTY FACTOR (DF) = 5.571 (VERY high).

Pick 1.04 = 1047 points

Pick 1.05 = 865 points

So between 4 and 5 this time. Same deal - AT LEAST.

Hope that helps.
This also addresses the issue I raised about setting the number one picks in dynasty and redraft at the same value number. What this post is really saying is that in a 12 team dynasty league with the above lineup and roster requirements it would be a decent (although not fantastic deal) to trade Steve Smith straight up for Sidney Rice.Steve Smith - #23 overall player - 975 value points

Sidney Rice - #5 rookie player (per Bloom 100) - 1052 value points

Whereas, if you started with the rookie 1.01 being worth closer to the redraft or initial dynasty draft value of the 2.04 (1167 value points). You would probably conclude that Steve Smith is worth about the 1.02 or 1.03 rookie pick. This seems to make sense. Steve Smith for Calvin Johnson or Marshawn Lynch is closer to feeling right.
:goodposting: although i never really liked giving flat numbers to rookie picks each year. it should be dependant on your rookie rankings first. for example - 1.04 in 2006 was worth a lot more than 1.04 in 2007.

 
although i never really liked giving flat numbers to rookie picks each year. it should be dependant on your rookie rankings first. for example - 1.04 in 2006 was worth a lot more than 1.04 in 2007.
This dependency never goes away. Calculators can't do that for you, just give you a relative guide.This year the Top 3 > usual, but last year #1 > usual.Creating a more complicated calculator is not worth the effort because (A) you'll never get rid of these dependencies, and more importantly (B) creating a tool creates credibility with it, like it or not. This credibility - if not correct or if you don't buy into it - makes the tool misleading and dangerous.For these reasons and the diminishing returns for time invested (and likelihood that most, including myself, wouldn't like the end product / tool) I shelved that project and stuck with the rule of thumb.At some point, the numbers don't matter and you have to go with gut instinct.
 
I see a lot of people asking to add players into this some how.

That could be helpful but isn't it utimatly up to the owner? Do you really want an equation to determine who is on your team? Are we that big of :nerd: that a computer will dictate who we trade or keep?

If your decesion is to trade M. Harrison for 1.02 so you can draft CJ do you really need a computer program to say "yes, you should do that." Doesn't that take some of the fun out of being the GM?

By the way, I love the program :goodposting:

 
I see a lot of people asking to add players into this some how.

That could be helpful but isn't it utimatly up to the owner? Do you really want an equation to determine who is on your team? Are we that big of :tfp: that a computer will dictate who we trade or keep?

If your decesion is to trade M. Harrison for 1.02 so you can draft CJ do you really need a computer program to say "yes, you should do that." Doesn't that take some of the fun out of being the GM?

By the way, I love the program :no:
That's really not the point. You're really oversimplifying things. If this were the case then why have any calculators at all. The point of a tool that integrates players and picks is to provide you with a starting point when thinking up trade offers. I have rookie pick 9 and 14 and would like to move up to pick 1. I'm thinking of offering the two picks plus a player like Mike Vick. Is that reasonable, let me plug it into the calculator as a sanity check. NFL teams have pick value charts but they aren't the only tools used when teams are talking about trading picks. Nobody wants to use an equation to determine who is on their team. We just want the best tools at our disposal as we make our decisions.

 
I see a lot of people asking to add players into this some how.

That could be helpful but isn't it utimatly up to the owner? Do you really want an equation to determine who is on your team? Are we that big of :tfp: that a computer will dictate who we trade or keep?

If your decesion is to trade M. Harrison for 1.02 so you can draft CJ do you really need a computer program to say "yes, you should do that." Doesn't that take some of the fun out of being the GM?

By the way, I love the program :no:
That's really not the point. You're really oversimplifying things. If this were the case then why have any calculators at all. The point of a tool that integrates players and picks is to provide you with a starting point when thinking up trade offers. I have rookie pick 9 and 14 and would like to move up to pick 1. I'm thinking of offering the two picks plus a player like Mike Vick. Is that reasonable, let me plug it into the calculator as a sanity check. NFL teams have pick value charts but they aren't the only tools used when teams are talking about trading picks. Nobody wants to use an equation to determine who is on their team. We just want the best tools at our disposal as we make our decisions.
well your player (Vick) is a great example of how other owners value picks. if you offered me Vick and 2.02 for 2.01, I would turn it down. The program would surely see say I should accept it. But players are valued differently by different owners.I do see the point in that it would give you a relative staring point for an offer. I have more fun in trying to figure out for myself if another owner will bite at my offer rather than needing an equation to confirm that my offer is fair.

 
Jeff, I applaud the work, but the relationship of roster size being INVERSELY proportional to value seems backwards.

... if you have a deep bench, you can afford to put more rookies on your roster and wait for them to develop, so there is less pressure on you getting your picks right.
This tried to equate "less pressure" to "less value". That isn't correct. Less pressure means "less risk". And less risk means more value, not less, because risk and value are inversely proportional.Let's say that 50% of the time a rookie in the small roster league contributes before needing to be cut. In the bigger roster league the rookies are held longer and so 80% of the time the same rookies contributes before needing to be cut. I hope it's clear that the latter situation has the more valuable pick since 80% of the time you get something of value and in the small league you only get something of value 50% of the time.

Put another way, which are you willing to pay more money to play... a game where 50% of the time you win $100, or a game where 80% of the time you win $100?

Your comments about number of teams in the league bear this out as well:

Number of Teams in the League - As the number of teams increases, the value of the picks increase. Again, this passes the sanity check in that you have fewer draft picks and more teams are fighting for talent. Additionally, more players are rostered in the league and thus fewer talented players are available in free agency.
GregR,First, I appreciate your comments. You've contributed a great deal around the SP so thanks for reading the article and checking out the tool.

I have to disagree. I thougth long and hard about this tool, and I believe it has the right relationships.

I believe that the disagreement comes from what the numerical value of a pick represents. It is not about the value of the player or the pick itself but more about the RELATIVE value of the pick.

So, in a league where you have 9 starters and just 20 roster spots, there is pressure for your rookies to produce quickly else you have to cut them and move on - you don't have room for projects. As such, if you are going to trade for a 3rd rounder, that pick is far less worthwhile than in a league where you have 25 roster spots. The pick itself has more value if have more time to seek value with it.

In a league where I have to cut players quickly, later picks become less and less valuable. If I have bench space, the value of the pick goes up.

This argument extends to more teams in a league as well. With more teams, it becomes harder to find talent to put on your team. With fewer teams, the value of the waiver wire players rises, so your rookie draft picks aren't as valuable. With 16 teams vs. 12, that's 100+ talented players that won't be available anywhere but in a trade or on Draft Day, so the pick means more.

Therefore, I have the value of picks being higher with MORE teams and MORE roster space because you can get a bigger return / value from that pick than if you have the opposite situation(s).

I hope that clarified my thoughts.
I follow you, but where we're on different pages is that that isn't what I got the impression from the article that the Dynasty Factor was comparing. It was talking about yielding an independent value for each league that represented the value of picks in that league. If that representation of the Dynasty Factor is right then I believe what I said is correct, that the relationship is backwards of what it should be. The value of picks in a smaller roster league are worth less than picks in a larger roster league for the reasons we've both mentioned.I do agree with your explanation here that within a single league, the distribution of value between early and late round picks is inversely proportional to roster size. But that didn't seem to be how the article suggested it was being used, thus my comment.

 
Jeff, I applaud the work, but the relationship of roster size being INVERSELY proportional to value seems backwards.

... if you have a deep bench, you can afford to put more rookies on your roster and wait for them to develop, so there is less pressure on you getting your picks right.
This tried to equate "less pressure" to "less value". That isn't correct. Less pressure means "less risk". And less risk means more value, not less, because risk and value are inversely proportional.Let's say that 50% of the time a rookie in the small roster league contributes before needing to be cut. In the bigger roster league the rookies are held longer and so 80% of the time the same rookies contributes before needing to be cut. I hope it's clear that the latter situation has the more valuable pick since 80% of the time you get something of value and in the small league you only get something of value 50% of the time.

Put another way, which are you willing to pay more money to play... a game where 50% of the time you win $100, or a game where 80% of the time you win $100?

Your comments about number of teams in the league bear this out as well:

Number of Teams in the League - As the number of teams increases, the value of the picks increase. Again, this passes the sanity check in that you have fewer draft picks and more teams are fighting for talent. Additionally, more players are rostered in the league and thus fewer talented players are available in free agency.
GregR,First, I appreciate your comments. You've contributed a great deal around the SP so thanks for reading the article and checking out the tool.

I have to disagree. I thougth long and hard about this tool, and I believe it has the right relationships.

I believe that the disagreement comes from what the numerical value of a pick represents. It is not about the value of the player or the pick itself but more about the RELATIVE value of the pick.

So, in a league where you have 9 starters and just 20 roster spots, there is pressure for your rookies to produce quickly else you have to cut them and move on - you don't have room for projects. As such, if you are going to trade for a 3rd rounder, that pick is far less worthwhile than in a league where you have 25 roster spots. The pick itself has more value if have more time to seek value with it.

In a league where I have to cut players quickly, later picks become less and less valuable. If I have bench space, the value of the pick goes up.

This argument extends to more teams in a league as well. With more teams, it becomes harder to find talent to put on your team. With fewer teams, the value of the waiver wire players rises, so your rookie draft picks aren't as valuable. With 16 teams vs. 12, that's 100+ talented players that won't be available anywhere but in a trade or on Draft Day, so the pick means more.

Therefore, I have the value of picks being higher with MORE teams and MORE roster space because you can get a bigger return / value from that pick than if you have the opposite situation(s).

I hope that clarified my thoughts.
I follow you, but where we're on different pages is that that isn't what I got the impression from the article that the Dynasty Factor was comparing. It was talking about yielding an independent value for each league that represented the value of picks in that league. If that representation of the Dynasty Factor is right then I believe what I said is correct, that the relationship is backwards of what it should be. The value of picks in a smaller roster league are worth less than picks in a larger roster league for the reasons we've both mentioned.I do agree with your explanation here that within a single league, the distribution of value between early and late round picks is inversely proportional to roster size. But that didn't seem to be how the article suggested it was being used, thus my comment.
Point taken - a better explanation of the Dynasty Factor (DF) would be in order, and will be included in the 2007 version of the article.The Dynasty Factor, or "DF", is a metric for your Dynasty League. The higher the DF, the faster the value of your rookie picks decline - meaning that later picks mean less. That is to say, if your DF is a big number (say over 4), you don't have room on your team to hold guys to develop. The opposite is true if your league's DF is low (under 3) - you have extra room to let guys develop.

A DF is "typical" if your league's DF falls in the 3-4 range.

I believe that this metric should NOT say "How Dynasty is your Dynasty League", as the intuitive answer is that the bigger the number the more Dynasty your league is - it's actually the opposite. A small number would mean it favors more of a Dynasty, in that you have more time to let guys develop and also more time to hold on to older players. A bigger number means you turn your roster over more quickly, almost defeating the purpose of a true Dynasty (think after the NFL took on the Salary Cap).

I'll try and figure out a better way to explain this next time.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Please let me know if any featues / improvements you'd like to see. I can get an early release out soon if you have things you want for your draft (and before my article comes out).

 
Please let me know if any featues / improvements you'd like to see. I can get an early release out soon if you have things you want for your draft (and before my article comes out).
A couple of other things that to me it would be nice to see taken into account would be contract length for leagues that don't have full-career ownership, and also worth based on the rookie salary for salary cap leagues, probably compared to average salaries at that position amongst veterans. My first thought on contract length is that the role it plays should be pretty straight forward, but that to include it adequately one might need to vary it by position based on how long it takes a player at that position on average to become a fantasy significant player (i.e. starter or perhaps above average backup). And to be truly accurate that would also vary based on starting lineup requirements... your rookie QB is more likely to become fantasy significant in a start 2 QB league than he is in a start 1.Salary cap prices for rookies... frankly I imagine there's just too much variation between leagues to be able to include this adequately. So I don't imagine it would ever work in well, but I figure I'll mention it in case you come up with some elegant way of doing it.Again, nice work.
 
Jeff, how did you come up with these "points" trial and error right?

Why is the dynasty pick so much different then the dodds calculator?

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top