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Dynasty Draft Pick Trade Strategy (1 Viewer)

King of the Jungle

Footballguy
This is not revolutionary by any means but I never see it involved in trades. I have used this for years and it has benefited me time and time again. If I am negotiating a trade and I feel I am slightly overpaying or if the trade is fairly equal, I will usually throw in an option for me to swap with the other owners future first round pick. For example in 2020 I made a trade and also added my option to swap first rounders in 2021. I finished in 4th place and the other owner finished in 11th (out of 12). I was able to swap picks and draft Chase. This has worked in my favor 5-6 times with first and second round picks. Anyone else have success using this strategy?

 

kutta

Footballguy
The option to swap first round picks seems like a HUGE part of a trade. Anything weird can happen in a season, so anyone can end up with a top 3 pick. If you swapped during the trade itself, that’s one thing. But giving you the option after the season doesn’t seem like a throw-in to me; it sounds like a big part of the trade.

 

King of the Jungle

Footballguy
The option to swap first round picks seems like a HUGE part of a trade. Anything weird can happen in a season, so anyone can end up with a top 3 pick. If you swapped during the trade itself, that’s one thing. But giving you the option after the season doesn’t seem like a throw-in to me; it sounds like a big part of the trade.
It sure hasn’t seemed like a huge part of the trade in my league, although they may start thinking differently as time goes on. I am just saying that it has worked in my favor as people are more apt to give an option to swap picks versus just trade them away. Second round obviously easier to pull off but I have had several first round swaps that paid off big time.

 

zaner75

Footballguy
It's basically a bet against the other team. Sounds like people in your league tend to overestimate their team, which is likely something many casual managers are more apt to do. Definitely a shark move. Hopefully the people in your league don't catch on to it so you can keep doing it.

 

kutta

Footballguy
It sure hasn’t seemed like a huge part of the trade in my league, although they may start thinking differently as time goes on. I am just saying that it has worked in my favor as people are more apt to give an option to swap picks versus just trade them away. Second round obviously easier to pull off but I have had several first round swaps that paid off big time.
But why would they rather give YOU the option as opposed to just trading them?  They are way better off just swapping picks.

 

King of the Jungle

Footballguy
But why would they rather give YOU the option as opposed to just trading them?  They are way better off just swapping picks.
I probably did not state this well. They are more encouraged to provide an option versus simply trading their pick away. The option still ensures they have a pick. Each league is different, it is just a strategy that has worked in my favor and I was curious if anyone else has ever tried this.

 

Gally

Footballguy
As someone else said already, this is just betting  that your team will be better than their team.   As long as you believe that to be the case then it can be a nice bonus.  If the other guy sees their team as better than yours then it should be accepted and a bonus every time (depending on your team evaluations).

At the end of the 2020 season a guy was popping off how terrible my team was.  I bet him 1st round picks to shut him up.  He accepted.  He finished 10th (out of 12) and I finished 5th.  Worked out for me.

This can only work if you can evaluate teams accurately and the other owners can't. 

 
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barackdhouse

Footballguy
King of the Jungle said:
This is not revolutionary by any means but I never see it involved in trades. I have used this for years and it has benefited me time and time again. If I am negotiating a trade and I feel I am slightly overpaying or if the trade is fairly equal, I will usually throw in an option for me to swap with the other owners future first round pick. For example in 2020 I made a trade and also added my option to swap first rounders in 2021. I finished in 4th place and the other owner finished in 11th (out of 12). I was able to swap picks and draft Chase. This has worked in my favor 5-6 times with first and second round picks. Anyone else have success using this strategy?
I have done this a ton for a number of years now with mostly solid or at least marginal success. A couple times it has been the difference between picking 8th and 9th for example. Big deal. But other times I have cleaned house, just like the scenario you described. My only regret is that I wish I could complete more of these trades.

Whenever I have made these kinds of offers, it has met one of two reactions:

1 - "WTF is this?! Idiot." Reject.

2 - They autoslam it because it is arrogant to automatically think your team is better than theirs and they want to punish you for it. 

But there is a third scenario where the relative strength of each team is so disparate that both parties just know it when negotiating. And you can't really BS about it. So in that case there is some obvious value being added on one side to make it square. If you are rebuilding and think you are ready to compete then a move like this can be huge. To be the presumed weaker team but then win and finish higher! So you could get the consensus extra value in the trade and the better pick in the end. 

I also agree it is really hard to pry 1st rounders away from people and that proposing a swap can be a great tool if you construct it smart. 

And no it doesn't have to be about rat screwing the other guy. It is ok to look at it like a win-win. I have often sold it as a friendly wager since that is often what it essentially comes down to. Anyway love the move. Rant over.

 

barackdhouse

Footballguy
most recent example FFPC 1QB last year I paid a guy a 2022 3rd to swap 1sts with him. He agreed and even though we both finished less than we liked, I ended up with what will be 1.04 and he got 1.06. So... those picks still remain to be seen if we both stay put but...

Is 3.06 + 1.06 = 1.04? I would say not. Nobody holding 1.04 would do that right now. I hope. But when you make the offer a year ago and you're basically *giving* a 3rd away, it hits different. I think I got a 4th back but still.

 

-OZ-

Footballguy
I’ve swapped firsts often but haven’t used the “option to swap firsts” aspect which guarantees you the better pick. I like it but I’m not sure many in my leagues would go for it. 

 

Dreamer

I'm special
I do this to move a JAG I've soured on. I'll attach the player to my 2nd or 3rd round pick and send the offer to a team who can use the player for their corresponding pick.

 

cowboys85

Footballguy
We used to allow picks swaps or protected picks, high/low picks, and trade conditionals in our league. We had a separate Google Sheet to track it all - eventually it became too much for me (commish) to track them all, but we did it for about 10 seasons. 

Almost every major trade had a conditional - "if player X finishes in the top 12, then I receive an additional 2nd round pick." We also used it for injury prone players "if player A plays 12 or less games, the 3rd round pick becomes a 4th round pick." 

 

acarey50

Footballguy
We used to allow picks swaps or protected picks, high/low picks, and trade conditionals in our league. We had a separate Google Sheet to track it all - eventually it became too much for me (commish) to track them all, but we did it for about 10 seasons. 

Almost every major trade had a conditional - "if player X finishes in the top 12, then I receive an additional 2nd round pick." We also used it for injury prone players "if player A plays 12 or less games, the 3rd round pick becomes a 4th round pick." 


Just about all of my leagues got rid of allowing conditional trades largely due to this. Essentially we put rules in place that all trades need to be final and complete at the time they are executed.

Otherwise not only do you need to track conditions, you also need to track that no one (either intentionally or unintentionally) trades any piece that is locked up in a condition.

 

Gally

Footballguy
We used to allow picks swaps or protected picks, high/low picks, and trade conditionals in our league. We had a separate Google Sheet to track it all - eventually it became too much for me (commish) to track them all, but we did it for about 10 seasons. 

Almost every major trade had a conditional - "if player X finishes in the top 12, then I receive an additional 2nd round pick." We also used it for injury prone players "if player A plays 12 or less games, the 3rd round pick becomes a 4th round pick." 
We track it in the notes of the trade itself.  That is the official statement regarding the trade and everything involved.  It hasn't been hard to track if done properly in the comments.  No need for a separate spread sheet.  As a commish I also let everyone know its on them to ensure the comments reflect the trade and all it's conditions because that is what I will go back to if there is a discrepancy.  They have been good about contingencies if pick X isn't there anymore and is due do a condition being met.  Typically something in the trade verbiage is if pick that is due isn't available the next highest pick is used.   It's also up to the owners involved to make sure they complete the trade once the conditions are known if necessary.  I am not going to go back and make sure an extra 12th round pick was sent because WR X finished 38th.  

It hasn't been a problem to track or implement.  

 

wgoldsph

Footballguy
Gally said:
We track it in the notes of the trade itself.  That is the official statement regarding the trade and everything involved.  It hasn't been hard to track if done properly in the comments.  No need for a separate spread sheet.  As a commish I also let everyone know its on them to ensure the comments reflect the trade and all it's conditions because that is what I will go back to if there is a discrepancy.  They have been good about contingencies if pick X isn't there anymore and is due do a condition being met.  Typically something in the trade verbiage is if pick that is due isn't available the next highest pick is used.   It's also up to the owners involved to make sure they complete the trade once the conditions are known if necessary.  I am not going to go back and make sure an extra 12th round pick was sent because WR X finished 38th.  

It hasn't been a problem to track or implement.  
I think you're missing the bigger point here - I've got Bob's future 1st if wr x finished 38 but Bob traded his first in another deal with Joe.   I'm not just going to settle for Bob's second round pick after the season, and it's not my job to follow up with every transaction Bob makes to make sure he's not giving away my conditional pick, and both Bob and Joe have benifited from the trade they made all season.  You as the commissioner gotta keep track of that.

 

Gally

Footballguy
I think you're missing the bigger point here - I've got Bob's future 1st if wr x finished 38 but Bob traded his first in another deal with Joe.   I'm not just going to settle for Bob's second round pick after the season, and it's not my job to follow up with every transaction Bob makes to make sure he's not giving away my conditional pick, and both Bob and Joe have benifited from the trade they made all season.  You as the commissioner gotta keep track of that.
I am aware of the "bigger point".    I put the onus on the players making the deal.  I will come in and make a ruling if needed.  We have gotten pretty good at putting provisions in the original trade for that sort of issue so it hasn't been an issue.  Typically it goes the other way.  If the team doesn't have the necessary pick then there is a more valuable pick (or package) that gets substituted.  In your example it is likely the following years 1st rounder and the current years 2nd rounder in place of the missing 1st rounder.  We have also had the other team bring to the attention of everyone if the possible pick is traded at the time of the trade and have had those trades reversed because the two parties were not able to come up with agreed to compensation in place of the "missing pick".

Bottom line is I as commish have made it known that the comments in the agreed to trade need to spell out exactly the conditions of the trade and what happens if the conditional picks are not available.  If there is a dispute (and there has been) we have gone back to the original trade tracked on our website and reviewed the trade verbiage to settle the issue.  We have not had an issue at that point..........even though we have had disappointed owners.  But usually that is because they misremembered what was agreed to and once they see it they have no real foot to stand on.   The other thing I have made clear is that I am not tracking all conditions and that is up to the owners involved to make sure they don't miss a condition.....and if they do it's on them not the commish office.   They can always come back to the documented trade if necessary but that will be the binding document. 

It has worked well with no permanent damage because everyone clearly understands the rules and how they will be enforced if needed.    

ETA:  As commish, I also review the original trade when it happens and go over the conditions with both franchises at the time of the deal to make sure that there are provisions if a pick is missing and that they all agree to what happens in that case.   Also, remind them they need to track and bring up the conditional aspects when they apply or they miss out.  It's clear to everyone and they understand it.  

 
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cowboys85

Footballguy
Gally said:
We track it in the notes of the trade itself.  That is the official statement regarding the trade and everything involved.  It hasn't been hard to track if done properly in the comments.  No need for a separate spread sheet.  As a commish I also let everyone know its on them to ensure the comments reflect the trade and all it's conditions because that is what I will go back to if there is a discrepancy.  They have been good about contingencies if pick X isn't there anymore and is due do a condition being met.  Typically something in the trade verbiage is if pick that is due isn't available the next highest pick is used.   It's also up to the owners involved to make sure they complete the trade once the conditions are known if necessary.  I am not going to go back and make sure an extra 12th round pick was sent because WR X finished 38th.  

It hasn't been a problem to track or implement.  


When it comes time to assign the picks based on the conditionals that were met, you went back into the comments of each trade?

I couldn't get all owners to buy in so I ended it. This was the straw that broke the camel's back: "If Brett Hundley finishes as a top 20 QB in the games he plays compared to other QBs in the same time frame, the pick becomes a 2018 3rd Round Draft Pick."

 

Gally

Footballguy
When it comes time to assign the picks based on the conditionals that were met, you went back into the comments of each trade?

I couldn't get all owners to buy in so I ended it. This was the straw that broke the camel's back: "If Brett Hundley finishes as a top 20 QB in the games he plays compared to other QBs in the same time frame, the pick becomes a 2018 3rd Round Draft Pick."
We made trades based on the likely outcome.  If the condition was met and any additional picks were required then those teams just made a trade through the site with whatever additional picks needs to change hands.  I have never found that the owners involved were lax about making sure they got what they were supposed to.  MFL is also pretty easy to look at for previous trades to confirm the conditions.  

 

rockaction

Footballguy
Honestly makes my head spin. I can't imagine doing this unless you have tons of time on your hands to keep track of it all. I would generally want the trades done when they're done, not for some mythical conditional hanging over the guy's head to come true. 

Then again, that sort of inflexibility might not grease the skids as much for trades, so if you're in a stagnant league or league where people are hesitant to trade picks, this might not be such a bad thing. 

I can see both sides. I'm just imagining a hyper-active league with these just flying around the table and people forgetting what and to whom they owe. 

 
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zaner75

Footballguy
Or just limit conditions that can be used (Making the playoffs, season ending fantasy points, position rank or PPG as some examples). Doesn't need to be difficult or complex

 

King of the Jungle

Footballguy
Maybe it helps that our league has had only two league owner changes in 20+ years. Not much churning between owners and all trades can be tracked on the message board. We trust each other in these scenarios which may be uncommon in most leagues. Really on the owner that benefits from the trade to bring it up again before the draft and have the documentation ready if questions do arise. Really not that challenging for us anyway.

 

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