[DYNASTY] Misfits 'n Outlaws-VI dynasty draft (1 Viewer)

[OZ*]

He also traded his 1.03 rookie pick (a likely starting RB) for a 5th round vet pick. He seems like a conscientious guy--I'm sure he'll learn, I just hope it's not too late.

Last year I thought that my position in MOX III (1.01 = LT2) was the best position. This year, the best positions are, in order, 1.14, 1.13, 1.12, 1.01. There are an unusual amount of good young RB's available at the turn this year, and when you consider the rookie pick, it's a big advantage.

I find these comments interesting, as I, along with a few others from this board, head into a dynasty draft.I drew the 14/15 turn around spot, which includes the 1.01 rookie pick - similar draft format, different starting requirements. I'm pretty happy with it, but am having a difficult time projecting who to take. Knowing I get the pick of the litter out of the 3 rookie RBs helps a lot, allowing me to just go BPA with the picks.

I'm curious how the difference between your rules (2-4 RBs) and ours (0-2 RBs) changes the draft. I'm thinking the 1.14, 1.15 and 1.01 rookie combo holds a LOT of value in your format, but less in ours.

I'm somewhat surprised that you think the 5th round vet pick is low for the 1.03, but that probably again has more to do with the RB value than a general comment.

It's easy to see that the 3rd rookie - let's say, Cadillac, has more value than Dom Rhodes. But, in a less RB intensive league, where would you value the 1.03 rookie?

(As I write this I'm realizing the lessons from this league don't apply well to a different format).

Anyway, it looks like your comments are dead on for this format.

 

[The Man Who Met Andy Griffith]

Oz, you're right that in a format where you can start 0-2 RB's things are very different. I bet that 1.14 is less valuable there (but maybe still the best) but it really depends on league size, scoring, etc. You probably won't be targeting 2 RB's there, since 1.01 rook should definitely be a RB.

 

[OZ*]

Oz, you're right that in a format where you can start 0-2 RB's things are very different. I bet that 1.14 is less valuable there (but maybe still the best) but it really depends on league size, scoring, etc. You probably won't be targeting 2 RB's there, since 1.01 rook should definitely be a RB.

You're right to say I won't target two RBs, but if two studs happen to fall...Well, I'd be ok taking Mike Williams at the 1.01, or trading down.Bottom line: OPTIONS man, always keep your options open.

 

[fatness]

5. Miami Cowboys / Otters Trade Miami Cowboys gave up Year 2004 Draft Pick 15.03Otters gave up Pennington, Chad NYJ QBComments: Miami Cowboys give their 2nd round rookie pick(2.5) to Otters. Mon Feb 7 7:10:09 p.m. ET 2005 10. Miami Cowboys / Otters Trade Miami Cowboys gave up Barlow, Kevan SFO RB; Year 2004 Draft Pick 5.10;Year 2004 Draft Pick 6.03;Year 2004 Draft Pick 6.12Otters gave up Alexander, Shaun SEA RB; Year 2004 Draft Pick 7.12;Year 2004 Draft Pick 8.12;Year 2004 Draft Pick 16.12 Thu Feb 3 9:02:48 p.m. ET 2005 17. Miami Cowboys / Otters Trade Miami Cowboys gave up Year 2004 Draft Pick 1.03;Year 2004 Draft Pick 2.12;Year 2004 Draft Pick 7.03;Year 2004 Draft Pick 13.03;Year 2004 Draft Pick 20.12Otters gave up Year 2004 Draft Pick 1.12;Year 2004 Draft Pick 2.03;Year 2004 Draft Pick 4.03;Year 2004 Draft Pick 6.03;Year 2004 Draft Pick 12.03Comments: Miami Cowboys give 1st round rookie pick and Otters give 2nd round rookie pick(received in trade from Bozmacs,2.5) Fri Jan 28 9:06:44 p.m. ET 2005

I guess I'll have to look at that awhile longer to see if it begins to make any sense.

 

[RavenFan]

Thinking about the way this (and other) 1st time dynasty drafts work, I think it's unfair to reverse the order for the rookie draft. People at the turn are going to make out like bandits. I think instead that rookie picks 1 - 14 should be drafted just like regular players. That way each person could put their own value on the picks since team records have not come into play. For example, I would put the value of rookie 1.1 - 1.3 somewhere around the 3rd round. So the people on the turn basically get a "free" 3rd rounder. Folks with rookie picks later probably put much less of a value on them, say 6 - 8th round. I don't think the talent drop off from 1.1 to 1.14 is enough to justify the difference in rookie value.Just my .02

 

[meeka]

5. Miami Cowboys / Otters Trade Miami Cowboys gave up Year 2004 Draft Pick 15.03Otters gave up Pennington, Chad NYJ QBComments: Miami Cowboys give their 2nd round rookie pick(2.5) to Otters. Mon Feb 7 7:10:09 p.m. ET 2005 10. Miami Cowboys / Otters Trade Miami Cowboys gave up Barlow, Kevan SFO RB; Year 2004 Draft Pick 5.10;Year 2004 Draft Pick 6.03;Year 2004 Draft Pick 6.12Otters gave up Alexander, Shaun SEA RB; Year 2004 Draft Pick 7.12;Year 2004 Draft Pick 8.12;Year 2004 Draft Pick 16.12 Thu Feb 3 9:02:48 p.m. ET 2005 17. Miami Cowboys / Otters Trade Miami Cowboys gave up Year 2004 Draft Pick 1.03;Year 2004 Draft Pick 2.12;Year 2004 Draft Pick 7.03;Year 2004 Draft Pick 13.03;Year 2004 Draft Pick 20.12Otters gave up Year 2004 Draft Pick 1.12;Year 2004 Draft Pick 2.03;Year 2004 Draft Pick 4.03;Year 2004 Draft Pick 6.03;Year 2004 Draft Pick 12.03Comments: Miami Cowboys give 1st round rookie pick and Otters give 2nd round rookie pick(received in trade from Bozmacs,2.5) Fri Jan 28 9:06:44 p.m. ET 2005

I guess I'll have to look at that awhile longer to see if it begins to make any sense.

Don't waste your time. It doesn't make sense. Why would you trade up to 1.3 just to trade the player you take for Barlow and a late 5th round pick. Probably could have picked Barlow at 1.12, I'm pretty sure he fell that low, and saved the 4th round pick and second round pick it cost you to move up to 1.03. But when you really want a guy you can't gamble that he will fall to 1.12

 

[The Man Who Met Andy Griffith]

5. Miami Cowboys / Otters Trade Miami Cowboys gave up Year 2004 Draft Pick 15.03Otters gave up Pennington, Chad NYJ QBComments: Miami Cowboys give their 2nd round rookie pick(2.5) to Otters. Mon Feb 7 7:10:09 p.m. ET 2005 10. Miami Cowboys / Otters Trade Miami Cowboys gave up Barlow, Kevan SFO RB; Year 2004 Draft Pick 5.10;Year 2004 Draft Pick 6.03;Year 2004 Draft Pick 6.12Otters gave up Alexander, Shaun SEA RB; Year 2004 Draft Pick 7.12;Year 2004 Draft Pick 8.12;Year 2004 Draft Pick 16.12 Thu Feb 3 9:02:48 p.m. ET 2005 17. Miami Cowboys / Otters Trade Miami Cowboys gave up Year 2004 Draft Pick 1.03;Year 2004 Draft Pick 2.12;Year 2004 Draft Pick 7.03;Year 2004 Draft Pick 13.03;Year 2004 Draft Pick 20.12Otters gave up Year 2004 Draft Pick 1.12;Year 2004 Draft Pick 2.03;Year 2004 Draft Pick 4.03;Year 2004 Draft Pick 6.03;Year 2004 Draft Pick 12.03Comments: Miami Cowboys give 1st round rookie pick and Otters give 2nd round rookie pick(received in trade from Bozmacs,2.5) Fri Jan 28 9:06:44 p.m. ET 2005

I guess I'll have to look at that awhile longer to see if it begins to make any sense.

Don't waste your time. It doesn't make sense. Why would you trade up to 1.3 just to trade the player you take for Barlow and a late 5th round pick. Probably could have picked Barlow at 1.12, I'm pretty sure he fell that low, and saved the 4th round pick and second round pick it cost you to move up to 1.03. But when you really want a guy you can't gamble that he will fall to 1.12

Barlow was taken in the THIRD ROUND!Otters basically PAID Miami Cowboys (handsomely) in order to move back from 1.12 to 3.03.I am amazed that I am the only one out of 14 people who has protested this most recent trade.

 

[Steelers4Life]

Anyway, I disagree that this is a balanced league. Two teams (Miami Cowboys, and Mistakes Were Made = 1.14) are shaping up as the best, with you (1.13) up there too. In MOX III, there were really no dominant teams coming out of the draft.

I'm glad you think I have a good team, but there are a bunch of teams that can and will catch some breaks between now and then to shake things up. I only made two trades and took one chance in the draft, but things fell pretty much like I thought they would. No doubt the 1.02 rookie pick, which will land me either Ronnie Brown or Cedric Benson, is a huge advantage.1.13 - Steven Jackson was the easy choice for me here. I expect him to carry the load next year and really didn't even consider anyone else.2.02 - Chris Brown - This pick could really bite me in the ### if he gets hurt again, but with Bell and Davis off the board and not wanting to wait until the end of the 3rd round to get a 2nd RB, I took the guy I felt was the next most talented RB left. I'd have considered Larry Johnson too, but I didn't want to use a pick this early on a RB who may not even get to contribute in 2005. 3.13 - Roy Williams - So, now I added my superstar WR. 'nuff said. 4.02 - TJ Duckett - I'm a HUGE fan of his, and I think it's just a matter of time before he gets his opportunity and runs with it. For now, he'll get his 10 carries per game and a decent number of TDs until Dunn gets dinged up. Did you know he had runs over 20 yards in 6 of his last 7 games in 2004?5.13 - Plaxico Burress - I was targeting him, Porter, or Horn. Porter went right before me, and Horn went one pick later. He was on an 1,150-8 pace in the games he played with Roethlisberger last year, and if he stays in Pittsburgh, that can only get better assuming the Steelers don't spend so much time running the ball. If he goes to a pass-oriented offense, the sky's the limit.I then decided to take a chance because I was happy with my RBs at this point and there wasn't a single WR worth drafting this high in opinion. I could've taken one QB and then had to use another mid-range pick on a backup, but I decided to trade my 7.13 and 8.02 picks, along with a drop from 13.13 to the 17th round, to get pick 6.01 and 9.02.I used 6.01 and 6.02 to draft Tom Brady and David Carr, making my QB position secure for a long time. Brady for consistency, Carr for potential. 9.02 - Antonio Bryant - This is who I was targeting with this pick. He's always had the talent, now he has the opportunity, and I think he's going to build on the way he finished off last year and become the #1 WR for the Browns.9.13 - Koren Robinson - Again, I got the guy I wanted. He's still 24 or 25, and I liked when Holmgren said he was getting professional help for off-the-field problems this offseason. A shot in the dark, but well worth the risk at this point.10.02 - David Boston - I'm hoping he'll land somewhere and remain relatively healthy in 2005. If he does, he's a steal at this point in the draft. Again, worth the risk as a 10th rounder. 11.13 - Ladell Betts - If Portis goes down, he can step in a be productive. As a bench RB, that's all I want.12.02 - Chicago Bears - Without value anywhere else that I felt I needed, I took a talented young defense. Maybe the best one left, maybe not... but solid.I then traded my 2.02 rookie pick and a 17th rounder for picks 12.10 and 13.07.12.10 - Tony Hollings - Just a prospect RB who hasn't REALLY gotten a chance yet. He's got talent, just needs to stay healthy.13.07 - LaBrandon Toefield - ANOTHER prospect RB. With the 2.02 rookie pick, I wasn't going to get anyone more talented or in a better situation than he or Hollings anyways, so I was pretty happy with landing these two RBs.14.02 - Keyshawn Johnson - After taking chances on KRob and Boston, it was nice to add Meshawn and his steady 900-6 to my bench. Not a bad 6th WR in a 14 team league.We'll see how it ends up...

 

[meeka]

5. Miami Cowboys / Otters Trade Miami Cowboys gave up Year 2004 Draft Pick 15.03Otters gave up Pennington, Chad NYJ QBComments: Miami Cowboys give their 2nd round rookie pick(2.5) to Otters. Mon Feb 7 7:10:09 p.m. ET 2005 10. Miami Cowboys / Otters Trade Miami Cowboys gave up Barlow, Kevan SFO RB; Year 2004 Draft Pick 5.10;Year 2004 Draft Pick 6.03;Year 2004 Draft Pick 6.12Otters gave up Alexander, Shaun SEA RB; Year 2004 Draft Pick 7.12;Year 2004 Draft Pick 8.12;Year 2004 Draft Pick 16.12 Thu Feb 3 9:02:48 p.m. ET 2005 17. Miami Cowboys / Otters Trade Miami Cowboys gave up Year 2004 Draft Pick 1.03;Year 2004 Draft Pick 2.12;Year 2004 Draft Pick 7.03;Year 2004 Draft Pick 13.03;Year 2004 Draft Pick 20.12Otters gave up Year 2004 Draft Pick 1.12;Year 2004 Draft Pick 2.03;Year 2004 Draft Pick 4.03;Year 2004 Draft Pick 6.03;Year 2004 Draft Pick 12.03Comments: Miami Cowboys give 1st round rookie pick and Otters give 2nd round rookie pick(received in trade from Bozmacs,2.5) Fri Jan 28 9:06:44 p.m. ET 2005

I guess I'll have to look at that awhile longer to see if it begins to make any sense.

Don't waste your time. It doesn't make sense. Why would you trade up to 1.3 just to trade the player you take for Barlow and a late 5th round pick. Probably could have picked Barlow at 1.12, I'm pretty sure he fell that low, and saved the 4th round pick and second round pick it cost you to move up to 1.03. But when you really want a guy you can't gamble that he will fall to 1.12

Barlow was taken in the THIRD ROUND!Otters basically PAID Miami Cowboys (handsomely) in order to move back from 1.12 to 3.03.I am amazed that I am the only one out of 14 people who has protested this most recent trade.

I know where Barlow was taken. It just shows how bad the trade was. It is one thing to overcome a few bad trades, but when we are talking about a team having that big of an advantage 4-8 years from now with those rookie picks, it is too much. I also protested the trade. Players drafted in 07-08 could still be playing in 2115. That is 10 years from now. It is crazy.

 

[tommy300]

I know all the trades have been posted and I have been following this draft from day1 but what is the true status of the rookie picks at this moment? Can someone from the league post them.Thanks.

 

[-OZ-]

Thinking about the way this (and other) 1st time dynasty drafts work, I think it's unfair to reverse the order for the rookie draft. People at the turn are going to make out like bandits. I think instead that rookie picks 1 - 14 should be drafted just like regular players. That way each person could put their own value on the picks since team records have not come into play. For example, I would put the value of rookie 1.1 - 1.3 somewhere around the 3rd round. So the people on the turn basically get a "free" 3rd rounder. Folks with rookie picks later probably put much less of a value on them, say 6 - 8th round. I don't think the talent drop off from 1.1 to 1.14 is enough to justify the difference in rookie value.Just my .02

well, which do you prefer:A) Tomlinson and Fred TaylorB) Deuce Mac and Larry JohnsonC) Tatem Bell and D DavisIMO, C is the least prefered. Giving the 1.01 rookie pick makes up for it, maybe a little too much, but it's prefered to the other method.Frankly, the only truly "fair" method is auction, but most of us enjoy drafts.

 

[meeka]

By Silverbacks VI On Sun Jan 23 10:32:37 p.m. ET 2005 [Reply] 1.01 Silverbacks1.02 Steel Curtain1.03 Bozmacs1.04 Jedi Knights1.05 Bozmacs1.06 Franchise 91.07 Rebel Alliance1.08 Mathematically Eliminated1.09 Holy Rollers1.10 Mathematically Eliminated1.11 Silverbacks1.12 Otters1.13 Mistakes were made1.14 Houston Shockers2.01 Mistakes were made2.02 Mathematically Eliminated2.03 Otters2.04 Jedi Knights2.05 Otters2.06 Franchise 92.07 Rebel Alliance2.08 Team Pepe Delgados2.09 Holy Rollers2.10 Team Pepe Delgados2.11 Silverbacks2.12 Otters2.13 Mathematically Eliminated2.14 Houston ShockersSilverbacks owns Mathematically Eliminated's 1st rounder in '06Otters owns Miami Cowboys 1st round pick in '06Otters owns Miami Cowboys 2nd round pick in '06Otters owns Miami Cowboys 2nd round pick in '07Miami Cowboys owns Otters 1st round pick in '07Miami Cowboys owns Otters 1st round pick in '08Here is the listing of rookie picks.

 

[EBF]

I like most of your picks Steelers. I don't share your high opinion of TJ Duckett, but I like the first three guys you drafted. I also like that you were able to get Tom Brady in the sixth. I'm surprised you took Carr over Roethlisberger. Personally, I can't understand why people have Carr rated higher than Roethlisberger.

 

[The Man Who Met Andy Griffith]

I like most of your picks Steelers. I don't share your high opinion of TJ Duckett, but I like the first three guys you drafted. I also like that you were able to get Tom Brady in the sixth. I'm surprised you took Carr over Roethlisberger. Personally, I can't understand why people have Carr rated higher than Roethlisberger.

Pretty much my take on it too. His draft was good but I was mystified by Carr when Big Ben and Bulger were on the board.I ended up taking Bulger at 6.10--I would have considered Big Ben or Rogers, but both were gone. Bulger went in the early 4th in the other two drafts.Duckett is a puzzler. He seems to have good but not elite talent, but it's not clear when he will be a starter--if ever. If I recall he was the #1 overall recruit out of HS. You have to wonder why his coaches don't seem to think of him as a starter. Edit to finish my thought: I could see him as an eventual stud though. Not a bad choice given the RB's who were left.

 

[salmonstud]

I'm biased because I took him in MOX IV, but it seems like Bruce is a good value compared to some of the other old WRs. To a lesser extent, I think the same is true about Jimmy Smith and Rod Smith. Those guys are near the end of the rope, but they're still decent bets to give you a couple good years. Right now you can pick them up for super cheap and then use late picks to get undervalued WR prospects to eventually replace them. This is just one strategy to consider if you decide not to use early picks on WRs.

I did exactly that in a dynasty league. I traded Calico & Colbert for Curtis Martin & Rod Smith as I was making a push for a championship last year. The other owner was in a rebuilding year. I think 1 of the 2 receivers I traded will pan out for my trading partner....but I'll take the 1-2 years of solid production from Martin & Smith any day of the week.

 

[EBF]

The nice thing about Duckett is that he's a decent guy to plug in for bye weeks/injuries. I guess the real question is whether or not he'll ever become a workhorse back in the NFL. It's impossible for me to answer that with any certainty, although the recent track record of big RBs is not very good. Aside from Jerome Bettis, I can't think of a single 240+ pound back from the past decade who became his team's starter for any significant length of time. That doesn't mean Duckett won't eventually become a stud, but I do think the lack of successful "big" RBs is worth noting.

 

[-OZ-]

I like most of your picks Steelers. I don't share your high opinion of TJ Duckett, but I like the first three guys you drafted. I also like that you were able to get Tom Brady in the sixth. I'm surprised you took Carr over Roethlisberger. Personally, I can't understand why people have Carr rated higher than Roethlisberger.

Pretty much my take on it too. His draft was good but I was mystified by Carr when Big Ben and Bulger were on the board.I ended up taking Bulger at 6.10--I would have considered Big Ben or Rogers, but both were gone. Bulger went in the early 4th in the other two drafts.Duckett is a puzzler. He seems to have good but not elite talent, but it's not clear when he will be a starter--if ever. If I recall he was the #1 overall recruit out of HS. You have to wonder why his coaches don't seem to think of him as a starter. Edit to finish my thought: I could see him as an eventual stud though. Not a bad choice given the RB's who were left.

It's just a question of time for Duckett. He should be a stud, maybe not top 5, but #8-12 easily, when he gets the chance to be the primary back.

 

[Steelers4Life]

I like most of your picks Steelers. I don't share your high opinion of TJ Duckett, but I like the first three guys you drafted. I also like that you were able to get Tom Brady in the sixth. I'm surprised you took Carr over Roethlisberger. Personally, I can't understand why people have Carr rated higher than Roethlisberger.

Thanks...With Duckett, I drafted him to be my #4 RB behind Jackson, Brown, and whoever I get at 1.02. Whenver Duckett gets the chance, and I think he will sometime relatively soon, I believe he'll be a Stephen Davis/Jerome Bettis type power runner with a little more speed and pass catching ability. And as for Big Ben, he was the other guy I considered. I have Ben in my other 2 dynasty leagues, and since I consider Carr to be on the same level long term, I went with him. I'm also a little concerned about Roethlisberger's fantasy potential for next year if the Steelers fail to re-sign Burress and don't replace him with a competent deep threat.... no, Randle El is not the answer. There are a lot of people who just don't understand what Burress brings to the offense even when he doesn't catch the ball. I passed over Bulger because I already had Jackson and don't want to start the RB and QB from the same team. All in all, I'm happy with Brady and Carr.

 

[EBF]

I'm biased because I took him in MOX IV, but it seems like Bruce is a good value compared to some of the other old WRs. To a lesser extent, I think the same is true about Jimmy Smith and Rod Smith. Those guys are near the end of the rope, but they're still decent bets to give you a couple good years. Right now you can pick them up for super cheap and then use late picks to get undervalued WR prospects to eventually replace them. This is just one strategy to consider if you decide not to use early picks on WRs.

I did exactly that in a dynasty league. I traded Calico & Colbert for Curtis Martin & Rod Smith as I was making a push for a championship last year. The other owner was in a rebuilding year. I think 1 of the 2 receivers I traded will pan out for my trading partner....but I'll take the 1-2 years of solid production from Martin & Smith any day of the week.

I think that was a good deal for you. I realize that a lot of people around here like Keary Colbert, but I think he's a career #2. Maybe he can become a productive #2 like Keenan McCardell, but either way his ceiling appears limited. Calico has a much higher upside, but he's very raw and his knee injury is a major concern. Martin and Smith are old, but at least you know that they'll be productive until their bodies give out on them.

 

[Buckna]

If I recall he was the #1 overall recruit out of HS.

I think he was, but as a linebacker. He was then converted to RB at Michigan State.Either way, he was highly valued coming out of HS.

 

[meeka]

I think Duckett was a great pick. If I was a solo owner I probably would have taken him at 3.10, but when you have a co-owner, sometimes you have to defer to someone elses thought. I like that selection, and your team (steeler4life) overall.

 

[salmonstud]

I passed over Bulger because I already had Jackson and don't want to start the RB and QB from the same team. All in all, I'm happy with Brady and Carr.

Nice draft Stu. I really like S-Jax at 1.13. You have a nice stable of young backs with you 1.2 rookie pick, S-Jax, Brown, & Duckett. It would have been hard for me to take C.Brown over R.Moss at 2.2. You landed some very good WR prospects late that could pan out. I wasn't too crazy about the Boston at 10.2 pick though.

 

[Steelers4Life]

Thanks guys... I really just wanted to get the topic of conversation away from the trades! I always like reading why other people made the picks they made in other drafts, so I figured I'd be the first to do it in this one.And Britt - Boston is the ultimate boom or bust. If he booms, that means he stays healthy, starts for someone next year, and puts up WR2 or WR3 numbers from a 10th round pick. If he busts, then hey, he's only a 10th rounder!

 

[The Man Who Met Andy Griffith]

If I recall he was the #1 overall recruit out of HS.

I think he was, but as a linebacker. He was then converted to RB at Michigan State.Either way, he was highly valued coming out of HS.

Yeah, he was a LB. But we agree--he was graded as an awesome athlete. May sound silly, but I actually pay attention to that. The fact that Kevin Jones was the #1 overall guy out of HS was a big part of me wanting him bad in my dynasty leagues, likewise it made me pay more attention than usual to Ronald Curry (#1 overall in FB and BB) and Michael Clayton (#2 WR out of HS).IMO it is very possible for a stud HS prospect to fizzle out in college due to work ethic issues, but if they are productive in college and make it to the NFL, it is usually a very good sign.

 

[Tick]

Thanks guys... I really just wanted to get the topic of conversation away from the trades! I always like reading why other people made the picks they made in other drafts, so I figured I'd be the first to do it in this one.And Britt - Boston is the ultimate boom or bust. If he booms, that means he stays healthy, starts for someone next year, and puts up WR2 or WR3 numbers from a 10th round pick. If he busts, then hey, he's only a 10th rounder!

I like Boston a lot in the 10th. Dude's still pretty young, is likely to slim down a bit after his positive test, and if he ever gets his head on straight again, he'll go off. I think he's worth a shot in the 10th of a non-IDP league.

 

[EBF]

If I recall he was the #1 overall recruit out of HS.

I think he was, but as a linebacker. He was then converted to RB at Michigan State.Either way, he was highly valued coming out of HS.

Yeah, he was a LB. But we agree--he was graded as an awesome athlete. May sound silly, but I actually pay attention to that. The fact that Kevin Jones was the #1 overall guy out of HS was a big part of me wanting him bad in my dynasty leagues, likewise it made me pay more attention than usual to Ronald Curry (#1 overall in FB and BB) and Michael Clayton (#2 WR out of HS).IMO it is very possible for a stud HS prospect to fizzle out in college due to work ethic issues, but if they are productive in college and make it to the NFL, it is usually a very good sign.

AD McPherson

 

[The Man Who Met Andy Griffith]

OK, so I'll talk about my draft though it was less impressive than Steeler's.

I started out with the 1.02 spot. I felt that I would end up with one stud (KJ or McG) RB and an iffy RB in Lee Suggs or maybe Rudi Johnson, and I didn't think I could take that risk. So I traded with the guy at 1.14 to get 1.14 and his 1.01 rookie pick, and I also traded back a bit in the third and fifth rounds. I took a lot of heat for that trade (I know what Otters is feeling right now ) but I felt that it was the right thing for my team.

I was hoping for S Jackson or T Bell at 1.14 (I would have preferred SJ), and I felt that the drop-off from KJ to them was easily overwhelmed by the value of the 1.01 rookie pick.

A few quick notes:

1) I think that in the MOX format, getting 4 starting RB's is absolutely key. If you can manage it, you are instantly a title contender, as long as you have even decent skill at WR and QB. I know that Couch Potato (who has been very successful in MOX I and III) and EBF (who is a much better talent evaluator than I, but not yet experienced in the MOX format) disagree, but that's the way I see it. I've seen too many championship teams get by with waiver wire scrubs at WR's and too many "stud" WR's fail to meet expectations to care much about WR.

2) I have a tendency to slightly overpay in trades. This is ironic I'm sure in that I'm the one who is loudly complaining about this other trade. I just feel that most trades turn out so lopsided in hindsight anyway that I am more interested in making the trade I want than in niggling over the small stuff. Penny-wise, Pound-foolish.

1.14 Tatum Bell, RB DEN

Like I said, I was hoping for Steven Jackson, but I was happy with Tatum. I think that both have a real good chance to be top 5 RB's, and I liked them both more than about half of the guys who went before them. I was concerned about the Jackson knee rumors, and also by Denver's tendency to go through backs, but I think it was a good gamble.

1.01 Rookie: Benson/Brown/Caddie, RB ???

Not being coy, I just don't know which one I'll take. I don't think any of them will be as good as Kevin Jones, but I do think they will turn out pretty good--I bet that next year the guy I choose will go 1.10 or earlier in the MOX VIII initial draft..

2.12 Lee Suggs, RB CLE

I really like this guy's talent. TO was gone, as was Rudi. I thought about a guy like Andre Johnson, but I just couldn't stomach burning a draft pick that high for a WR in a conservative offense with a mediocre QB who has never been in the top 10--no matter how young he is. I remember in the offseason some of Suggs' teammates were saying that he reminded them a little bit of Priest Holmes (not that CLE will ever be a Vermeil offense), and he looked great when I saw him. I was very down on Suggs for redraft last year because his schedule was absolutely brutal, but I think he's undervalued this year. And he's still very young; if he does well he could have a long career ahead of him. Plus I think that Winslow will help him and the Cleveland offense out a lot. I'm not overstating the case--he's not worth much more than 2.12, but I do think he's a lot better than the alternatives (McNabb being the possible exception, but I thought that I would get good QB value later. I was targeting Big Ben or Leftwich at 5.14, which didn't happen for a variety of reasons, but I still got good QB value lated).

3.14 Chris Perry, RB CIN

Roy Williams was gone, but Evans and Clayton were left. I really love both of these guys (and Roy, but I have real questions about his effort and his situation). I see them each as multiple pro-bowlers, and choosing one of them would have been reasonable.

I was planning to take Evans, and then snag Perry at 4.10. Perry was 6.11 in MOX IV and 5.04 in MOX V. The trend was not my friend, and the Perry rumors were heating up--I didn't want to miss losing out on him. I am a Michigan fan, but I thought he was pretty good, and I just don't see him sitting forever (even if he does sit this year).

4.10 Lee Evans, WR BUF

Clearly the best WR left, and there were no RB's left of note. I don't want to name names, but IMO this is the spot in the draft where a lot of garbage RB's get taken above excellent WR's. I think really highly of this guy--he has a real chance to be an uber-stud, even if he is only 5'11".

6.10 Marc Bulger, QB STL

Not a remotely difficult call at this spot. SOD. Young QB's are overrated this year in dynasty, IMO. Situation matters a lot more than talent for QB's (I'm sure EBF disagrees). Big Ben, Brady & Leftwich are all better QB's than Bulger, but none of them have Holt & Bruce on their team, or a pass-wacky head coach, or 8 home dome games per year. I won't even mention Carr--although I respect the guy who took him, I don't understand the pick at all. I don't see the logic in taking a young guy who you hope to eventually be a perennial top-5 guy when you can take a 27-year old who in fact is a perennial top 5 guy (or close).

Had Rogers been there I would have considered him. I think he is seriously undervalued this year (and I'm not pimping--I have him in only 1 of my 4 dynasty leagues).

7.02 Cedric Cobbs, RB NEP

His football team gets no respect .

Seriously, I didn't like the WR's left that much (there were definitely some good ones like Bruce, and picking them would have been defensible). And I'm definitely not in love with Cobbs--but I am intrigued by his talent and with NEP's history of getting late-rounders to contribute. I thought about Davenport too, who is probably a better RB at this time. I would have been happy with him, but I just figured that the odds of Davenport going to another team and starting were small (but non-zero), and I can see Dillon getting injured before Ahman. Of course, Cobbs hasn't even managed to sew up the #2 position on his team I believe (I'm not sure actually).

8.14 Billy Volek, QB TEN\

Not thrilled with this pick. I probably would have taken him anyway, but I was also thinking hard about Reggie Williams and Calico who I thought would be available, but weren't. I was praying for the Pats DEF to fall but they and Plummer both went right before me. Everybody knows that Volek looked awesome in relief last year--but then so did Kelly Holcomb and Tommy Maddox. I was very happy about the Chow hiring, and I like Bennett/Calico/Mason a lot. Plus they are in a pass-wacky division. Fortunately I was able to get McNair later. Losman would have been a good choice too, but I wanted to at least have two starting QB's.

10.01 Kellen Winslow, TE CLE

I would like this pick more if he had a QB. I haven't watched Winslow much--I'm basing this in large part in the very high ratings he has gotten from scouts, esp. when you consider it is more for his catching than his blocking. In this format the top TE's usually go around rounds 5 and 6 (they count as WR), and I like his chances to be a top 5. Boston would have been a fair pick too: I like high-risk, high-reward.

10.13 Andre Davis, WR CLE

How in the world do I always end up with guys from Cleveland, which is clearly a fantasy graveyard? Anyway, I still think this guy has great talent. Most likely he will never put it together and be a stud WR but it is very possible.

13.XX Steve McNair, QB TEN

Good value where I got him. Probably a wasted pick though.

That's it so far. I'm happy with my team overall, given what I felt was my weak starting draft position. Had I traded better and been a little lucky, I probably could have ended up with the same team but Lamont Jordan over Lee Evans, but such is life. I don't have great WR's, but I think I'll get one or two decent ones via FA.

I have an outside shot to be a real good team this year--IF 1.01 is a stud, and IF Bell stays healthy, and IF Suggs wins the job, and IF Perry gets the job. With the exception of Perry, I expect each of those to happen, but the likelihood of all happening is pretty low, plus I'm not convinced that Losman will have a big year next year.

Fortunately I still have my #1, so that if I have a poor year I can probably pick up another decent RB next year.

 

[The Man Who Met Andy Griffith]

If I recall he was the #1 overall recruit out of HS.

I think he was, but as a linebacker. He was then converted to RB at Michigan State.Either way, he was highly valued coming out of HS.

Yeah, he was a LB. But we agree--he was graded as an awesome athlete. May sound silly, but I actually pay attention to that. The fact that Kevin Jones was the #1 overall guy out of HS was a big part of me wanting him bad in my dynasty leagues, likewise it made me pay more attention than usual to Ronald Curry (#1 overall in FB and BB) and Michael Clayton (#2 WR out of HS).IMO it is very possible for a stud HS prospect to fizzle out in college due to work ethic issues, but if they are productive in college and make it to the NFL, it is usually a very good sign.

AD McPherson

I saw that you liked him in your top 12, and I know that you don't care all that much about character, but seriously... point shaving? Isn't than an enormous red flag?

 

[Couch Potato]

OK, so I'll talk about my draft though it was less impressive than Steeler's.B next year...

Blah blah blah... What I want to know is did you really meet Andy Griffith?

 

[The Man Who Met Andy Griffith]

OK, so I'll talk about my draft though it was less impressive than Steeler's.B next year...

Blah blah blah... What I want to know is did you really meet Andy Griffith?

lol no.bonus points to anybody who knows the reference (and not because I mentioned it once in FFA).

 

[Couch Potato]

OK, so I'll talk about my draft though it was less impressive than Steeler's.B next year...

Blah blah blah... What I want to know is did you really meet Andy Griffith?

lol no.bonus points to anybody who knows the reference (and not because I mentioned it once in FFA).

Too bad. Well, at least you can tell people you talked once on the phone with the famous Couch Potato.

 

[EBF]

OK, so I'll talk about my draft though it was less impressive than Steeler's.

I think you had a pretty good draft. You did pretty well at QB. I personally like Roethlisberger more than Bulger, but in the short term there's no question that Bulger is the better option. The Volek/McNair combo should give you a strong backup. I think you got some talented guys at RB. My only concern with the group is the lack of proven talent. You don't have a single guy who's rushed for over 1,000 yards before. I also think you reached for Chris Perry, although I can see why you did. RBs were overvalued in these drafts and you generally had to use early picks if you wanted to get some guys with any semblance of ability. I don't personally like Perry, but I'll never fault someone for drafting an untested first round RB who could be starting within a year or two. As you may know, I think Cobbs is a good gamble in the 7th. Your main weakness is WR. I like Lee Evans a lot, but he's still a bit of an unknown. Winslow and Davis might give you something next year, but they might not. You have some talent here, but you don't have a lot of bodies and you don't have any "sure things."

 

[The Man Who Met Andy Griffith]

OK, so I'll talk about my draft though it was less impressive than Steeler's.

I think you had a pretty good draft. You did pretty well at QB. I personally like Roethlisberger more than Bulger, but in the short term there's no question that Bulger is the better option. The Volek/McNair combo should give you a strong backup. I think you got some talented guys at RB. My only concern with the group is the lack of proven talent. You don't have a single guy who's rushed for over 1,000 yards before. I also think you reached for Chris Perry, although I can see why you did. RBs were overvalued in these drafts and you generally had to use early picks if you wanted to get some guys with any semblance of ability. I don't personally like Perry, but I'll never fault someone for drafting an untested first round RB who could be starting within a year or two. As you may know, I think Cobbs is a good gamble in the 7th. Your main weakness is WR. I like Lee Evans a lot, but he's still a bit of an unknown. Winslow and Davis might give you something next year, but they might not. You have some talent here, but you don't have a lot of bodies and you don't have any "sure things."

True, I didn't have much in the way of proven RB talent, but honestly, what else could I do? I felt that I had to trade back from 1.02 to get an extra starter, so I couldn't take KJ or McG there (and they're not exactly "proven" although I think they'll be great). And at 2.13, I guess I could have gone with Henry (who I think you took over Suggs)--I just went with my gut. I put Henry and Suggs about exactly the same, given that unlike Suggs Henry isn't stuck on Cleveland--I really don't know whether I'll regret that one. I feel comfortable with what I did at each pick, and I think--incidentally--that loading up on RB's early let me worry less about RB's late (you'll note that I didn't take a single RB after Cobbs) so that I could focus on WR. Also, I traded away 5.14 and 12.02 for rookie picks, so I am a little deeper than it appears (although none of my rookie picks are sure things other than 1.01).I didn't want to get into it before this draft, but I felt that you could have done a little bit better had you focused more on RB early (I think it was McNabb that bothered me in your draft), since you are pretty good at finding WR's late. I bet if you had Jordan over McNabb (but still had Big Ben) you would have been closer to a championship, but I could be wrong. I think you had a great draft overall, and you did a great job of finding great value (one of my problems in drafts is that I get scared and take a everybody 1 round too early, which amounts to just giving away say a third rounder).

 

[Steelers4Life]

OK, so I'll talk about my draft though it was less impressive than Steeler's.

Did you have to take a shot at my pick of Carr? When I did, I considered Bulger and Roethlisberger too, but I had reasons to choose Carr over both of them. Having Steven Jackson lead me away from Bulger, and having Roethlisberger in 2 other leagues lead me away from him. I never remotely considered Leftwich there. Taking a chance on a guy whose talent I LOVE in Carr with Brady already locked up made sense to me. And it still does.As for your draft, I think your trade to get the 1.01 pick was fantastic. A lot of people tried to trade down to 1.13 and 2.02, but I wouldn't give up the 1.02 rookie pick to move up in the first round. So, I kept the picks.Your RBs are more than solid, and if Perry becomes a starter at some point, you'll have one of the stronger units in the league. I wanted Bell to fall to 2.02.You're strong at QB too. I don't think the McNair pick was a bad pick at all, because I expect him to return and have a nice year. You needed to do that after picking Volek earlier. Your receivers need some work, but I'd guess you can see that! Personally, I like Bryant to be the #1 guy in Cleveland, but if he flops, you have the next two options. I like Winslow, but I'm glad you didn't snag Boston instead of him!

 

[EBF]

I didn't want to get into it before this draft, but I felt that you could have done a little bit better had you focused more on RB early (I think it was McNabb that bothered me in your draft), since you are pretty good at finding WR's late. I bet if you had Jordan over McNabb (but still had Big Ben) you would have been closer to a championship, but I could be wrong. I think you had a great draft overall, and you did a great job of finding great value (one of my problems in drafts is that I get scared and take a everybody 1 round too early, which amounts to just giving away say a third rounder).

The McNabb pick is one that I've thought about quite a bit in hindsight. My experience in dynasty leagues has caused me to shy away from passing up premier players for talented, but risky players. I was definitely interested in LaMont Jordan, Lee Suggs, and DeShaun Foster, but I couldn't justify passing on McNabb for them. It's likely that at least one of those guys will become a very effective and consistent starting RB, but it's a near 100% bet that McNabb will be a top 5 QB when healthy. I think you need to make every one of your early picks count in a dynasty draft, particularly one with 14 teams. There's just no room for error. That's why I went with a very risk-aversive strategy in the early rounds. It's entirely possible that this strategy will backfire and that my lack of RBs will kill me, but I'm not overly worried. Half of the teams who appear to have RB depth will eventually discover that they actually have very little depth. Think about the backs who were being drafted high two years ago. Trung Canidate, Anthony Thomas, Jonathan Wells, Charlie Garner, Eddie George, Garrison Hearst, Marcel Shipp, Antowain Smith, and William Green would have all been chosen in the first five rounds in this format in early 2003. In my opinion, those players are all relatively worthless now. I only took two RBs in the first six rounds, but I'm confident in their skills. I'm also confident in my ability to identify and acquire affordable players at RB who figure to eventually develop into contributors. Cedric Cobbs is an example of this kind of guy. I think Corey Dillon is a major injury risk next season. I've always been fairly high on Cobbs and I think he has the chance to emerge in the future. I realize that he's not a sure thing, but that's why I only used a seventh round pick on him. By the time the seventh round came around, I'd already built a foundation of proven talents. If you use your earlier picks on unknowns then you don't have this same security. By the way, I'm not bashing your picks. Suggs, Bell, and Perry could all be top 10 backs in a year. I'm merely explaining the thought process behind my picks. People who are in other leagues with me can attest to the fact that I too make plenty of high risk/high reward picks. There's nothing wrong with that style as long as you know what you're doing and as long as you have absolute faith in the players you're selecting.

 

[EBF]

True, I didn't have much in the way of proven RB talent, but honestly, what else could I do? I felt that I had to trade back from 1.02 to get an extra starter, so I couldn't take KJ or McG there (and they're not exactly "proven" although I think they'll be great). And at 2.13, I guess I could have gone with Henry (who I think you took over Suggs)--I just went with my gut. I put Henry and Suggs about exactly the same, given that unlike Suggs Henry isn't stuck on Cleveland--I really don't know whether I'll regret that one.

You definitely raise a valid point here. By the time pick #14 comes around, there aren't a lot of sure thing RBs on the board. I may have been inclined to take Chris Brown over Tatum Bell, but I won't fault you for that decision given Brown's injury problems. I also won't fault you for Suggs in the second. He appears to have been a better option than the alternatives. Again, I wasn't criticizing your picks as much as I was critcizing your team. Whether it's your fault or not, you don't have any RBs with a track record of success. That's not necessarily bad and it doesn't mean you won't dominate the league.

 

[meeka]

My turn. Here is the Bozmacs squad. It is a team owned by 2 guys. One a Lions fan and the other a Vikings fan. Here are the picks and a little insight on the good and bad about co-owning a team.1.10 J. Jones - RB. Loved getting Jones this low in the draft. He has some ???, but I feel he is pretty solid. Had to get a RB with that first pick.2.05 R. Moss - WR. Not a tough pick again. We offered some pathetic trades to move up 1 or 2 slots to land Moss, but he fell to us anyway. Love having him on the team, and my co-owner could not be happier to have a Viking. At least for now.3.10 A. Johnson - WR. This is where it can get tough to co-own a team. I was lobbying for another RB, but instead we took some young talent. It would have been Duckett if I owned the team.4.05 M. Bennett - RB. At this point he was the only guy out there with any chance to play this coming year, so we needed to take him. Not thrilled about him as a player, but the best rb left in my opinion.6.05 C. Rogers - WR. We had talked about getting a QB here, but there were a lot left on the board and I took the gamble that one would drop in the 7th. I took advantage of my co-owner being on a plane, and pulled the trigger on a Lion.6.13 B. Leftwich - QB. It became apparent that the QB's would be dried up by the time it came back in the 7th so we traded up to get Leftwich. 9.10 Pitt Defense10.03 Micheal Jenkins - WR Another young WR. I thought we were overdoing the WR position, and almost asked my co-owner if he went by EBF on footballguys.11.11 B. Greise - QB Took some qb insurance here.D. AkersD. HensonC. GarnerI am pretty happy about this draft. We are obviosly weak at RB, but hopefully we land some talent with rookie picks 1.03 and 1.05. Go ahead, hack away.

 

[EBF]

My turn. Here is the Bozmacs squad. It is a team owned by 2 guys. One a Lions fan and the other a Vikings fan. Here are the picks and a little insight on the good and bad about co-owning a team.1.10 J. Jones - RB. Loved getting Jones this low in the draft. He has some ???, but I feel he is pretty solid. Had to get a RB with that first pick.2.05 R. Moss - WR. Not a tough pick again. We offered some pathetic trades to move up 1 or 2 slots to land Moss, but he fell to us anyway. Love having him on the team, and my co-owner could not be happier to have a Viking. At least for now.3.10 A. Johnson - WR. This is where it can get tough to co-own a team. I was lobbying for another RB, but instead we took some young talent. It would have been Duckett if I owned the team.4.05 M. Bennett - RB. At this point he was the only guy out there with any chance to play this coming year, so we needed to take him. Not thrilled about him as a player, but the best rb left in my opinion.6.05 C. Rogers - WR. We had talked about getting a QB here, but there were a lot left on the board and I took the gamble that one would drop in the 7th. I took advantage of my co-owner being on a plane, and pulled the trigger on a Lion.6.13 B. Leftwich - QB. It became apparent that the QB's would be dried up by the time it came back in the 7th so we traded up to get Leftwich. 9.10 Pitt Defense10.03 Micheal Jenkins - WR Another young WR. I thought we were overdoing the WR position, and almost asked my co-owner if he went by EBF on footballguys.11.11 B. Greise - QB Took some qb insurance here.D. AkersD. HensonC. GarnerI am pretty happy about this draft. We are obviosly weak at RB, but hopefully we land some talent with rookie picks 1.03 and 1.05. Go ahead, hack away.

I like this team. The downside is that you could have a real problem at RB. The upside is that you have insane talent at WR. Randy Moss is Randy Moss. Andre Johnson is one of the best young receivers in football. Charles Rogers has Pro Bowl talent.

 

[meeka]

My turn. Here is the Bozmacs squad. It is a team owned by 2 guys. One a Lions fan and the other a Vikings fan. Here are the picks and a little insight on the good and bad about co-owning a team.1.10 J. Jones - RB. Loved getting Jones this low in the draft. He has some ???, but I feel he is pretty solid. Had to get a RB with that first pick.2.05 R. Moss - WR. Not a tough pick again. We offered some pathetic trades to move up 1 or 2 slots to land Moss, but he fell to us anyway. Love having him on the team, and my co-owner could not be happier to have a Viking. At least for now.3.10 A. Johnson - WR. This is where it can get tough to co-own a team. I was lobbying for another RB, but instead we took some young talent. It would have been Duckett if I owned the team.4.05 M. Bennett - RB. At this point he was the only guy out there with any chance to play this coming year, so we needed to take him. Not thrilled about him as a player, but the best rb left in my opinion.6.05 C. Rogers - WR. We had talked about getting a QB here, but there were a lot left on the board and I took the gamble that one would drop in the 7th. I took advantage of my co-owner being on a plane, and pulled the trigger on a Lion.6.13 B. Leftwich - QB. It became apparent that the QB's would be dried up by the time it came back in the 7th so we traded up to get Leftwich. 9.10 Pitt Defense10.03 Micheal Jenkins - WR Another young WR. I thought we were overdoing the WR position, and almost asked my co-owner if he went by EBF on footballguys.11.11 B. Greise - QB Took some qb insurance here.D. AkersD. HensonC. GarnerI am pretty happy about this draft. We are obviosly weak at RB, but hopefully we land some talent with rookie picks 1.03 and 1.05. Go ahead, hack away.

I like this team. The downside is that you could have a real problem at RB. The upside is that you have insane talent at WR. Randy Moss is Randy Moss. Andre Johnson is one of the best young receivers in football. Charles Rogers has Pro Bowl talent.

My problems at RB are obvious. I like you did not feel like reaching for RB talent when there was superstar talent left at WR. Actually I would have prefered to reach in the 3rd, but like I said this team has 2 owners. I hope to get one of Benson, Brown, Cadillac. Might not help in 2005, but the top 4 rb's taken in last years rookie draft all went in the first round, so 2006 should be better. The NFL draft will be watched closely so see who we take at rookie 1.03 and 1.05.

 

[Couch Potato]

It's disappointing to note the pace of this draft. The previous MOX drafts took 12-14 days, and this one is nearing the end of it's 12th day with 95 picks still remaining.I've noticed a few times where an owner is up and also in the hole, makes his 1st pick, and doesn't bother to pre-draft the other pick. The next owner drafts in a short time, and many hours then go by before the guy who didn't pre-draft finally shows up again. No trades are made or I could see that as a reason. He just doesn't bother to keep things moving. The guy who is up right now has been on the clock 7+ hours with pick 186 (14th round). He drafted at pick 179 and didn't bother to pre-draft this pick, yet he disappears all day. By the 14th round these decisions aren't life and death. Pre-draft and keep things moving. Geez. I see that as disrespectful to the rest of the league, personally. I hope in MOX VII all our guys are more conscientious than that.EDITED to change 11+ hours to 7+ hours above. Bad math. Not so bad, I guess, but the point is still valid generally.

 

[lovestolaugh]

It's disappointing to note the pace of this draft. The previous MOX drafts took 12-14 days, and this one is nearing the end of it's 12th day with 95 picks still remaining.I've noticed a few times where an owner is up and also in the hole, makes his 1st pick, and doesn't bother to pre-draft the other pick. The next owner drafts in a short time, and many hours then go by before the guy who didn't pre-draft finally shows up again. No trades are made or I could see that as a reason. He just doesn't bother to keep things moving. The guy who is up right now has been on the clock 11+ hours with pick 186 (14th round). He drafted at pick 179 and didn't bother to pre-draft this pick, yet he disappears all day. By the 14th round these decisions aren't life and death. Pre-draft and keep things moving. Geez. I see that as disrespectful to the rest of the league, personally. I hope in MOX VII all our guys are more conscientious than that.

maybe he don't live here

 

[The Man Who Met Andy Griffith]

My turn. Here is the Bozmacs squad. It is a team owned by 2 guys. One a Lions fan and the other a Vikings fan. Here are the picks and a little insight on the good and bad about co-owning a team.1.10 J. Jones - RB. Loved getting Jones this low in the draft. He has some ???, but I feel he is pretty solid. Had to get a RB with that first pick.2.05 R. Moss - WR. Not a tough pick again. We offered some pathetic trades to move up 1 or 2 slots to land Moss, but he fell to us anyway. Love having him on the team, and my co-owner could not be happier to have a Viking. At least for now.3.10 A. Johnson - WR. This is where it can get tough to co-own a team. I was lobbying for another RB, but instead we took some young talent. It would have been Duckett if I owned the team.4.05 M. Bennett - RB. At this point he was the only guy out there with any chance to play this coming year, so we needed to take him. Not thrilled about him as a player, but the best rb left in my opinion.6.05 C. Rogers - WR. We had talked about getting a QB here, but there were a lot left on the board and I took the gamble that one would drop in the 7th. I took advantage of my co-owner being on a plane, and pulled the trigger on a Lion.6.13 B. Leftwich - QB. It became apparent that the QB's would be dried up by the time it came back in the 7th so we traded up to get Leftwich. 9.10 Pitt Defense10.03 Micheal Jenkins - WR Another young WR. I thought we were overdoing the WR position, and almost asked my co-owner if he went by EBF on footballguys.11.11 B. Greise - QB Took some qb insurance here.D. AkersD. HensonC. GarnerI am pretty happy about this draft. We are obviosly weak at RB, but hopefully we land some talent with rookie picks 1.03 and 1.05. Go ahead, hack away.

I think you have a solid team. Rogers and AJ have some question marks, but they could be perennial top-5 guys. As you know I'm not that into WR's as for whatever reason I've seen a lot of talented guys finish up with OK stats (Roy, AJ, Chambers come to mind) until they get in a good system, but you really have the flexibility to take a lot of RB gambles. There is no question that you have the best WR corps in the league, and probably will for 5 years. And AJ will keep his value--if you want to you can probably trade him for a third-round caliber RB at any time in the future.Bennett I don't like, but I could be wrong. I really think he may never be a full-time starter again (I don't see him getting a job over Henry, Jordan or the big 3 rookies). JJ is a great pick-up. He looks like he might be big-time. And I think you'll get 1 or 2 real good RB's at 1.03 and 1.05 if you go that way. Almost makes me wonder how you managed to get the 1.03 rookie pick for so cheap Leftwich is one of those great talent, iffy situation guys. I could see him as a stud QB down the road, but he needs one or two more playmakers. You are right IMO that you took the last guy left in his tier.In the end, your team like mine looks good on paper, and I'd be happy with either of our rosters in dynasty league, but I think we'll each find it hard to contend for a title this year.

 

[Couch Potato]

maybe he don't live here

*LOL* I can appreciate that.But that's why the pre-draft function exists. And it's more about the guy up and also in the hole than the guy who is up right now. I just don't get a guy who knows he's on deck after his current pick deciding to disappear for a huge chunk of time and not pre-drafting if he knows he won't be around.

 

[fatness]

I've noticed a few times where an owner is up and also in the hole

Really, we're not interested in your porn viewing habits. :rotflmao:

 

[Nugget]

It's disappointing to note the pace of this draft. The previous MOX drafts took 12-14 days, and this one is nearing the end of it's 12th day with 95 picks still remaining.

Average Time Waiting For Pick To Be MadeFranchise Avg. Wait Time

Houston Shockers 51 minutes (12 picks)

Silverbacks VI 56 minutes (10 picks)

Miami Cowboys 1 hour, 17 minutes (14 picks)

LONGSHOTZ-VI 18 minutes (15 picks)

Team Pepe Delgado's III 1 hour, 38 minutes (12 picks)

Holy Rollers 53 minutes (14 picks)

Mathematically Eliminated 4 hours, 19 minutes (14 picks)

Rebel Alliance 55 minutes (13 picks)

Franchise 9 1 hour, 2 minutes (13 picks)

Bozmacs 3 hours, 44 minutes (12 picks)

Jedi Knights 2 hours, 30 minutes (13 picks)

Otters 59 minutes (13 picks)

Steel Curtain III 1 hour, 5 minutes (15 picks)

Mistakes Were Made 6 minutes (14 picks)

I like this predraft feature, especially in the latter rounds.

My team seems OK so far.

 

[Couch Potato]

Really, we're not interested in your porn viewing habits. :rotflmao:

Admit it Scott. Yes you are.

 

[Love That Joker]

OK, so I'll talk about my draft though it was less impressive than Steeler's.B next year...

Blah blah blah... What I want to know is did you really meet Andy Griffith?

lol no.bonus points to anybody who knows the reference (and not because I mentioned it once in FFA).

All to easy.Al Bundy and his family went on vacation in Florida and there was a serial killer that would kill tourists. The knife came up through the bed and they ended up catching him. The town was so small or at least did not have anything going on other then the serial killer and "The Man who met Andy Griffith." The town could spare losing one or the other but not both of them. The Bundy's survived their trip to Dumpwater, Florida.

Joker has a good memory.

 

[Bob Magaw]

The nice thing about Duckett is that he's a decent guy to plug in for bye weeks/injuries. I guess the real question is whether or not he'll ever become a workhorse back in the NFL. It's impossible for me to answer that with any certainty, although the recent track record of big RBs is not very good. Aside from Jerome Bettis, I can't think of a single 240+ pound back from the past decade who became his team's starter for any significant length of time. That doesn't mean Duckett won't eventually become a stud, but I do think the lack of successful "big" RBs is worth noting.

jamal lewis is listed at 245... but your point is well taken... i couldn't think of any other starting RB from 31 other teams. ricky williams might have been CLOSE to 240 when he entered the league, & guys like eddie george & fred taylor performed at high level at close to that (235?)... but duckett is somewhat of a freak listed at over 250. he definitely isn't a lumbering plodder like dayne. the odds of so few big backs succeeding (aside from bettis) at a feature RB level, might be mitigated by fact that he is so blazing fast... isn't he considerably faster than bettis ever was in his prime? not sure if he is a legit 4.4, but he moves awfully good for a power back.an interesting comp player might be the nigerian nightmare... christian okoye... didn't pick up a football until 23... out of football after six seasons... if he had more longevity he might have played within your stated last decade parameter. okoye was a was a physical specimen who was his nations champion in the 100... and in the shot put. got to think that confluence of speed, power & athleticism has to be pretty rare in the history of the planet. he did lead the NFL in rushing for the chiefs one year, but his problem was that he ran too upright & too many kill-shots by the defense quickly took their toll. if duckett learns to run with body lean & good pad level (if in fact he doesn't already), he could be a beast. especially with opposing defenses already on their collective heels having to concern themselves with vick.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Just cuz I know this is so dang interesting to everyone, here's the breakdown by position for each of the 6 MOX drafts.

YR: '03 '04 '04 '05 '05 '05PCK	M-1	M-2	M-3	M-4	M-5	M-6001	R01	R01	R01	R01	R01	R01002	R02	R02	R02	R02	R02	R02003	R03	R03	R03	Q01	R03	R03004	R04	R04	R04	Q02	Q01	R04005	R05	R05	R05	R03	R04	R05006	R06	R06	R06	R04	R05	R06007	R07	R07	R07	R05	R06	Q01008	R08	R08	W01	R06	Q02	R07009	R09	R09	R08	R07	R07	Q02010	R10	W01	R09	R08	R08	R08011	Q01	R10	R10	R09	R09	R09012	Q02	R11	R11	R10	R10	R10013	W01	R12	R12	R11	R11	R11014	R11	R13	R13	R12	R12	R12015	R12	R14	R14	R13	R13	R13016	R13	W02	Q01	R14	R14	R14017	Q03	R15	W02	W01	R15	R15018	W02	R16	W03	R15	R16	R16019	W03	W03	W04	R16	W01	W01020	R14	W04	R15	R17	R17	R17021	R15	Q01	Q02	R18	R18	R18022	R16	Q02	R16	R19	W02	R19023	Q04	R17	Q03	Q03	W03	R20024	R17	R18	W05	R20	Q03	R21025	R18	W05	W06	R21	R19	W02026	R19	Q03	W07	R22	R20	R22027	R20	R19	W08	Q04	R21	R23028	R21	W06	R17	W02	W04	R24029	R22	W07	R18	R23	Q04	Q03030	R23	W08	W09	W03	R22	R25031	R24	W09	R19	R24	W05	R26032	R25	R20	R20	R25	R23	R27033	W04	W10	W10	R26	R24	W03034	R26	R21	R21	R27	W06	R28035	W05	R22	R22	R28	R25	R29036	W06	W11	R23	W04	R26	R30037	W07	R23	R24	W05	R27	W04038	Q05	R24	R25	R29	W07	W05039	R27	W12	R26	W06	R28	W06040	R28	R25	R27	W07	R29	W07041	W08	R26	R28	W08	R30	W08042	W09	R27	R29	R30	W08	R31043	W10	R28	W11	W09	W09	W09044	W11	W13	W12	W10	W10	R32045	Q06	W14	Q04	R31	R31	Q04046	W12	Q04	R30	W11	Q05	W10047	W13	W15	R31	R32	R32	R33048	W14	R29	W13	Q05	W11	W11049	Q07	R30	W14	W12	W12	W12050	W15	W16	W15	W13	W13	R34051	Q08	W17	W16	W14	W14	R35052	W16	W18	R32	W15	W15	W13053	W17	W19	R33	W16	R33	R36054	R29	R31	R34	R33	W16	W14055	R30	R32	W17	W17	W17	W15056	R31	Q05	W18	Q06	R34	W16057	W18	W20	R35	R34	Q06	W17058	Q09	R33	Q05	W18	Q07	R37059	W19	Q06	W19	W19	R35	W18060	W20	R34	Q06	R35	R36	W19061	W21	W21	R36	W20	W18	W20062	R32	W22	R37	W21	Q08	W21063	W22	R35	W20	W22	R37	W22064	W23	W23	R38	W23	W19	Q05065	W24	W24	R39	W24	W20	R38066	W25	Q07	W21	Q07	R38	W23067	R33	R36	W22	Q08	W21	W24068	Q10	Q08	R40	W25	Q09	W25069	W26	R37	R41	W26	Q10	W26070	W27	W25	W23	W27	Q11	W27071	Q11	W26	Q07	W28	R39	Q06072	Q12	R38	W24	R36	W22	Q07073	W28	W27	R42	W29	W23	W28074	D01	W28	Q08	W30	W24	Q08075	R34	Q09	Q09	W31	Q12	W29076	R35	W29	W25	R37	R40	W30077	W29	W30	Q10	R38	W25	Q09078	Q13	W31	Q11	R39	R41	Q10079	R36	Q10	W26	Q09	Q13	Q11080	W30	Q11	W27	R40	W26	R39081	Q14	W32	Q12	R41	R42	R40082	W31	R39	W28	Q10	Q14	R41083	R37	W33	R43	Q11	R43	Q12084	W32	Q12	W29	W32	W27	W31085	D02	W34	W30	Q12	W28	D01086	Q15	R40	W31	D01	R44	R42087	Q16	W35	W32	R42	Q15	Q13088	Q17	Q13	W33	R43	D01	D02089	D03	W36	W34	Q13	R45	Q14090	W33	W37	W35	R44	Q16	Q15091	W34	W38	W36	Q14	R46	R43092	R38	R41	R44	R45	W29	W32093	R39	Q14	W37	Q15	Q17	W33094	W35	R42	W38	W33	W30	R44095	W36	R43	W39	Q16	Q18	Q16096	W37	D01	Q13	D02	Q19	W34097	R40	Q15	R45	Q17	R47	W35098	W38	R44	R46	Q18	W31	W36099	D04	R45	Q14	D03	W32	R45100	R41	D02	W40	R46	Q20	W37101	W39	W39	W41	W34	W33	Q17102	W40	R46	W42	R47	W34	R46103	W41	R47	R47	R48	R48	W38104	Q18	W40	Q15	Q19	Q21	W39105	Q19	R48	W43	W35	Q22	W40106	W42	W41	R48	R49	D02	R47107	R42	R49	Q16	W36	W35	Q18108	R43	R50	W44	Q20	W36	W41109	Q20	Q16	W45	D04	W37	Q19110	W43	W42	W46	W37	R49	D03111	Q21	D03	Q17	R50	R50	Q20112	W44	R51	W47	R51	R51	W42113	R44	W43	D01	W38	D03	R48114	D05	W44	R49	R52	W38	W43115	R45	R52	Q18	R53	W39	R49116	R46	R53	Q19	Q21	Q23	Q21117	R47	Q17	Q20	R54	W40	R50118	W45	Q18	R50	W39	W41	Q22119	Q22	D04	R51	D05	D04	W44120	R48	D05	Q21	Q22	R52	W45121	Q23	R54	Q22	W40	W42	W46122	R49	W45	Q23	Q23	W43	D04123	R50	W46	Q24	R55	R53	W47124	R51	R55	D02	W41	W44	Q23125	R52	D06	R52	Q24	W45	W48126	R53	W47	W48	W42	W46	Q24127	R54	Q19	W49	Q25	W47	W49128	Q24	W48	W50	R56	R54	W50129	R55	R56	W51	R57	R55	W51130	R56	Q20	Q25	D06	W48	R51131	R57	Q21	Q26	W43	Q24	Q25132	W46	R57	R53	W44	W49	R52133	D06	R58	Q27	Q26	W50	W52134	R58	Q22	D03	W45	R56	W53135	W47	R59	W52	W46	W51	W54136	Q25	R60	K01	W47	R57	R53137	W48	W49	W53	W48	Q25	W55138	Q26	W50	Q28	Q27	R58	R54139	W49	D07	D04	W49	W52	W56140	R59	R61	Q29	Q28	W53	W57141	Q27	K01	W54	R58	R59	Q26142	W50	W51	Q30	Q29	R60	R55143	W51	Q23	Q31	R59	R61	R56144	W52	D08	R54	W50	Q26	W58145	W53	W52	Q32	W51	D05	Q27146	R60	W53	D05	W52	R62	W59147	W54	K02	Q33	W53	W54	Q28148	W55	W54	W55	Q30	W55	R57149	R61	W55	Q34	W54	W56	W60150	R62	R62	W56	W55	K01	Q29151	Q28	D09	R55	W56	W57	W61152	W56	D10	W57	Q31	W58	R58153	Q29	Q24	Q35	Q32	R63	R59154	Q30	W56	W58	W57	Q27	W62155	W57	W57	R56	W58	D06	Q30156	R63	W58	W59	D07	W59	D05157	R64	K03	W60	K01	W60	W63158	Q31	Q25	R57	W59	D07159	W58	K04	W61	R60	Q28160	Q32	R63	R58	R61	W61161	W59	Q26	W62	W60	R64162	Q33	R64	W63	R62	W62163	D07	W59	Q36	W61	D08164	W60	D11	R59	R63	Q29165	W61	K05	W64	R64	R65166	W62	K06	D06	K02	D09167	W63	W60	R60	D08	W63168	K01	Q27	W65	R65	R66169	W64	R65	R61	W62	R67170	W65	Q28	W66	R66	K02171	R65	W61	Q37	W63	K03172	Q34	W62	Q38	W64	R68173	W66	W63	R62	D09	R69174	K02	R66	W67	W65	W64175	Q35	R67	R63	R67	Q30176	R66	K07	K02	D10	W65177	D08	Q29	W68	R68	Q31178	Q36	W64	R64	W66	W66179	W67	R68	D07	W67	K04180	W68	R69	K03	D11	D10181	R67	R70	Q39	W68	Q32182	R68	W65	R65	D12	R70183	K03	R71	D08	Q33	W67184	R69	K08	Q40	W69	D11185	D09	R72	W69	Q34	K05186	R70	K09	W70	W70	R71187	D10	D12	W71	K03	W68188	W69	W66	R66	R69	W69189	R71	W67	D09	W71	K06190	Q37	R73	W72	W72	W70191	Q38	W68	W73	W73	W71192	W70	W69	W74	W74	W72193	R72	R74	R67	R70	K07194	W71	Q30	W75	Q35	W73195	W72	Q31	D10	W75	Q33196	R73	R75	R68	Q36	R72197	R74	W70	K04	D13	W74198	W73	K10	R69	D14	R73199	R75	Q32	Q41	W76	W75200	W74	W71	K05	K04	W76201	R76	Q33	W76	K05	D12202	W75	K11	D11	D15	R74203	W76	Q34	W77	K06	K08204	W77	Q35	R70	R71	R75205	R77	W72	D12	D16	R76206	W78	Q36	D13	W77	W77207	R78	W73	K06	R72	W78208	W79	W74	W78	Q37	Q34209	W80	W75	K07	K07	R77210	D11	W76	W79	D17	K09211	W81	W77	W80	K08	D13212	W82	R76	W81	Q38	Q35213	R79	Q37	R71	Q39	D14214	R80	D13	D14	K09	D15215	K04	Q38	K08	R73	Q36216	Q39	W78	K09	Q40	R78217	K05	D14	Q42	R74	D16218	R81	W79	K10	W78	W79219	R82	D15	W82	K10	R79220	R83	R77	D15	D18	W80221	K06	D16	R72	D19	D17222	K07	R78	D16	R75	W81223	R84	R79	Q43	W79	D18224	R85	D17	W83	K11	Q37225	R86	K12	R73	R76	W82226	K08	R80	Q44	R77	D19227	D12	D18	W84	Q41	K10228	D13	W80	D17	K12	R80229	W83	K13	W85	R78	K11230	K09	D19	W86	D20	D20231	K10	K14	R74	R79	Q38232	R87	D20	D18	W80	W83233	K11	K15	D19	R80	D21234	R88	W81	D20	W81	R81235	K12	W82	W87	K13	Q39236	K13	Q39	W88	Q42	W84237	D14	W83	R75	W82	W85238	K14	D21	D21	W83	R82239	W84	K16	K11	K14	Q40240	R89	W84	Q45	K15	D22241	W85	W85	W89	K16	R83242	R90	W86	W90	R81	K12243	D15	Q40	R76	R82	R84244	W86	W87	R77	D21	W86245	Q40	W88	Q46	W84	R85246	K15	D22	K12	D22	W87247	D16	K17	K13	W85	W88248	K16	D23	W91	Q43	R86249	W87	Q41	R78	W86	W89250	K17	R81	R79	R83	D23251	D17	K18	R80	K17	W90252	W88	D24	R81	W87	W91253	D18	W89	Q47	D23	D24254	W89	D25	K14	R84	K13255	D19	K19	W92	R85	W92256	D20	D26	W93	W88	R87257	Q41	R82	D22	W89	Q41258	R91	Q42	Q48	W90	Q42259	D21	R83	W94	R86	D25260	D22	R84	W95	K18	W93261	D23	D27	W96	W91	K14262	W90	D28	R82	D24	R88263	W91	W90	Q49	W92	R89264	K18	R85	W97	R87	R90265	K19	R86	W98	D25	W94266	K20	R87	R83	R88	K15267	W92	R88	W99	R89	R91268	D24	W91	K15	Q44	K16269	W93	R89	WX0	R90	W95270	D25	D29	Q50	Q45	Q43271	K21	K20	K16	D26	R92272	R92	W92	K17	K19	D26273	Q42	W93	R84	Q46	K17274	W94	W94	D23	Q47	R93275	W95	W95	K18	D27	R94276	D26	K21	R85	R91	D27277	K22	K22	WX1	Q48	W96278	Q43	W96	K19	R92	W97279	W96	R90	K20	R93	R95280	Q44	W97	WX2	Q49	K18

WX0, WX1, WX2 mean W100, W101, W102.

:neoraiseshandwhilebulletsstopintheirtracksandfallharmlesslytoground:thanx for the monumental compilation jobs by tick & couch potato.i have a pretty good idea about how i value players (tradeoff of young/old, potential & promise vs. proven production)... but this thread is like a skeleton key to help unlock what OTHERS are thinking in this offseason... a window into the aggregated discounting that is going on regarding the events of the recent season, the few tenuous rumors that have taken place in the brief offseason so far, and how we are projecting into the upcoming year & beyond.for someone with a dynasty draft in next week or so... great thread & keep up the outstanding collective work. :^)

 

[Couch Potato]

The guy who is up right now has been on the clock 7+ hours with pick 186 (14th round). He drafted at pick 179 and didn't bother to pre-draft this pick, yet he disappears all day. By the 14th round these decisions aren't life and death. Pre-draft and keep things moving. Geez. I see that as disrespectful to the rest of the league, personally.

Update. Same guy still on the clock. Approaching 17 hours now. I thought I remembered reading that the commish had put a 12-hour limit on picks at this point?We start drafting Monday and we'll be finished before you guys.