Dynasty Owners: Why dynasty formats? (1 Viewer)

[Concept Coop]

In as many words as you see fit, why dynasty formats? What about it is more satisfying than re-draft? Than keeper? Why are you reading a fantasy football board in March? Why are you talking trade and thinking about your team 6 months before the season starts?

 

[GeeYouknit]

I like football 365 days a year. Dynasty allows me to do that and "run" an actual team. I love the aspect of including draft picks in trades to make things more balanced, because lets be honest you don't always want to throw in another player to a trade, but hell why not a 3rd round pick? Depending on your league I highly recommend getting a trophy for it because it makes it that much more enjoyable to not just say you are the champ, but to flaunt it around.

Having my own franchise to run is just great for fans like us that want football all the time, and even in the off season of the NFL, we get our own off season of strategizing for the future and building our franchise.

LOVE IT

 

[B-Deep]

Dynasty forces you to think long term and short term at the same time, it is interesting.

it rewards the patient, but penalizes the complacent.

 

[Spin]

My league is one of the more complicated leagues, and it takes 10 pretty dedicated owners. When we first started we were all in college, now we get to continue having one helluva weekend together for the rookie draft every year and catch up. We have owners all over the place that fly in for the draft weekend. A good way to keep in touch with good friends that otherwise might have been lost. We have a stupid belt that is given to the winner. Like a cheap looking WWF type belt, and the winner every year adds something to it. One year a picture of someone's ex was added.

As far as the league itself. It's interesting to watch what you've built form over the years. I've built a pretty competitive team (1st place last year, 2nd place two years ago) targeting future firsts and then cashing in on them later. Although a lot of my team's contracts are about to expire, so I'm trying to ship them off for 2014 firsts.

I like the versatility. I only do one dynasty, I think any more would take up way too much time. I'm in 3 redrafts though, and honestly thinking of dropping that down to just one. It feels like I end up drafting 80% of the same players and have similar teams throughout each league, that it becomes redundant.

One Dynasty and one redraft seems about right to me.

 

[Warhogs]

I think redraft has become too unrewarding to the guy who is willing to pour a lot of work into their teams. The less dedicated owners can show up to the draft with somebody else's rankings, draft a team, and with a little luck win the title. The biggest advantage left may be in setting lineups and calculating the guy to pick up before everyone else but I think the advantage is so slight from when I started playing 20 years ago. In dynasty I feel I now have more reward for my research and time I dedicate to my teams.

 

[squistion]

To me dynasty is chess, redraft is checkers.

It is to the point that I don't find redraft challenging anymore - if I am going to spend the time drafting a good team, I want to keep the players and play owner/coach/GM for years.

 

[Banemorth]

I could go on forever, but if I write too much most people will just skip the post in fear of the wall of text.

I'll just bullitize some of the reasons.

- I eat, sleep, and breathe football. The off-season is torture but looking forward to the combine, draft, OTA's, and training camps makes it bearable and even exciting.

- Accountability. In redrafts if you really #### up it's all forgiven by next season. There are no long-term consequences.

- Strategy. As was said above, planning for now and the future is a thin line to walk. Makes trades that much more interesting.

- Rookie Draft. Getting to select and groom young talent is always fun. One of my favorite aspects of the game.

- IDP. I'm in nine dynasty leagues (Six full IDP) and I would have a hard time putting that level of effort into a team that would be gone by the end of the year.

I could keep going on about salary and contract management, RFA auctions, and much more but I'll stop there.

 

[ummich10]

To me dynasty is chess, redraft is checkers. It is to the point that I don't find redraft challenging anymore - if I am going to spend the time drafting a good team, I want to keep the players and play owner/coach/GM for years.

Wholeheartedly agree with the first comment. Dynasty is an extended strategy game.

 

[FUBAR]

To me dynasty is chess, redraft is checkers. It is to the point that I don't find redraft challenging anymore - if I am going to spend the time drafting a good team, I want to keep the players and play owner/coach/GM for years.

The challenge in redraft comes when you have a good group of educated owners, but then it becomes largely luck.To some degree dynasty maximizes skill and work, although there is still a lot of luck involved.I'm a very active owner and find dynasty is a better forum to be active. You have different priorities at any given time, while in redraft everyone has the same priorities.

 

[Ace Matherton]

More skill less luck involved with Dynasty.

 

[TheFanatic]

To me dynasty is chess, redraft is checkers.

It is to the point that I don't find redraft challenging anymore - if I am going to spend the time drafting a good team, I want to keep the players and play owner/coach/GM for years.

This.My main dynasty league had a schism and a few owners split and started another, very similar league. I joined it and drafted a killer team and won the title. I was supposed to be able to keep everyone who was under contract, but they decided to scrap the contracts and go with a pure keeper but then wanted to scrap all the teams. I said I would do it if we got to keep like three players. They wanted to start over so I left the league. I didn't sign up for a redraft and was obviously ecstatic with my team and wanted to have it another year and beyond.

As far as redrafts, and in particular ones with short benches, are almost always won on the WW. Sort of negates the work done in the draft. Redrafts should be won and lost at the draft, and while it can be lost in the draft, it rarely wins at the draft...

 

[Shutout]

To me dynasty is chess, redraft is checkers. It is to the point that I don't find redraft challenging anymore - if I am going to spend the time drafting a good team, I want to keep the players and play owner/coach/GM for years.

This. Well said.

 

[Sabertooth]

Less prep work. Less time suck.

 

[I was in the pool]

Chess-Checkers a good comparison.

If you play dynasty, it is easy to use that preparation for redraft leagues. On the other hand, it is difficult to go the other way, which to me, makes Dynasty actually more universal than redraft.

As others stated, your foresight and team composition does not get throw away like in redraft or even small keeper leagues.

Trades and easier to accomplish with more varied team approaches and situations

There are different seasons in dynasty leagues throughout the year that mirror the NFL calendar, bringing us closer to the game and the subtle (and not so subtle) shifts in the balance of power.

Dynasty opens up fantasy football to the college game with scouting those players far more than just the few rookies that impact the redraft format.

Dynasty brings out more of a person's natural personality in the way they manage their team. In the same way as poker, everyone has different thresholds for risk/reward/probabilities/patience.

 

[SSOG]

I think redraft is a great format for people who love football, and want to do something that's strictly about the football. Loving football is both necessary and sufficient for enjoying redraft leagues. This is not intended as a shot at redraft leagues- I love football, and therefore I love redraft.

Dynasty is a different beast; it's not just about loving football. Obviously loving football is still a sine qua non, it's absolutely necessary... but it's no longer sufficient in and of itself. In order to love dynasty, I think you also have to love strategy and game theory, as well. I think the chess comparison is an apt one. In redraft, all "strategy" really just boils down to "get the best players, win". Any unsettled strategy decisions remaining in the format (e.g. when to spend blind bidding waiver bucks) account for just a small percentage of success. In dynasty, though, the unsettled strategy decisions account for EVERYTHING. You have to devote a lot of time just to the concept of understanding what "best" really means. How should current production be factored against future production when determining the "best"? How do you weight value over a short timeframe vs. value over a large timeframe? How much risk are you willing to accept, and how much value are you willing to sacrifice to mitigate that risk? In redraft, there's a lot of material out there for you that will easily and clearly spell out what "best" means, meaning you can get by with as little effort as you really want to put in. In dynasty, there are a lot of different theories about what "best" means out there, but there's no way to tell which theories are more credible, or even if any of the theories is the best fit for your team. You have to do a lot more legwork and rely on your own opinions a lot more. Your team becomes much more a reflection of your own personal beliefs and biases than it does in redraft. This also means that the teams you're competing against are going to be much more varied and eclectic than anything you'd ever face in a redraft league. In redraft, the number of possible variables and iterations is low enough that "strategy" is very simple with very little variety from team to team. It's not quite tic-tac-toe, but there are really only one or two successful philosophies for building a redraft team. Any disagreement comes down strictly to disagreement over projections rather than huge strategic conflicts. Dynasty is just the opposite- all sorts of theories and worldviews will enter the arena and battle for dominance.

I think dynasty appeals to me most because that aspect of it is right in my wheelhouse. I'm what's known in the gaming community as a "min-maxer" or "optimizer" or "powergamer" (or, more derisively, a "munchkin"), someone who is always looking to tweak around the edges to perfectly optimize and streamline my approach. I spend a huge portion of my time considering meta-analysis, and I love Dynasty because the format actually rewards my efforts and allows me to use that to my advantage. Rather than play in a format where the huge strategic questions have been settled for over a decade now (ever since the advent of the concept of VBD), I'd play in a format where those questions are far from settled, and someone who is able to do the legwork and get ahead of the strategy curve can leverage that advantage into tangible, demonstrable results.

 

[Biabreakable]

Some nice posts in here.

There are many reasons that have already been covered as to why I think dynasty is a more challenging and interesting format.

I totally agree with the point about accountability. If you make a bad pick in dynasty it hurts you not just now but moving forward. Most people realizing that will study more in order to avoid that happening. I think because of this I get better competition from dynasty leagues in general because what a coach does has a larger impact than the current season. On the flip side of that owners who make good decisions get rewarded for that for a longer time frame than they would for just one season.

I have played dynasty in several different leagues. Some of these leagues have lasted for a decade or more. I like looking at my success rate over a long time frame compared to a shorter time frame. Winning a championship is not as rewarding for me compared to winning several of them over a longer time frame. It is easier said than done but I enjoy the challenge of trying to compete for a title each and every year. A redraft win could be considered a fluke. If I prove myself year after year after year I think that removes any question about my skill. That is a question that could not really be answered in a redraft league.

Trading is a lot more interesting in dynasty as well because people will value players very differently when taking a longer (2-3 years) or really long (3+ years) view of them compared to just looking at what a player could do for you this season.

Some things that I think are bad for a dynasty leagues longevity are being allowed to trade rookie picks more than one year out from the current season. Also too large of rosters can mean every possible potential player is likely rostered. That becomes too much in my opinion. There will always be haves and have nots in dynasty leagues. These 2 factors just makes the difference between the 2 even more pronounced. I have not decided where the sweet spot may be for roster size in dynasty but I think it should be shallow enough so that replacement owners can at least find a few players in free agency to work with, they are still going to have a hard time against the established stacked teams in the league. I think too large of rosters can remove some of the skill from it as owners can stockpile players who will transition for them when their starters fade and not often enough be forced to make the tough decisions. This is an area where contract years can really help and adds another layer to the strategy than just a straight up dynasty league.

 

[md8]

I agree with what's posted plus I think dynasty leagues have much more competetive and knowledgeable owners. Redraft leagues are usually full of average joes who while are big football fans, aren't obsessed like us who knows who the #5 WR or 3rd rb is on most teams. While I like winning, I also like good competition.

Also dynasty leagues are more likely to keep everyone active. In redrafts, teams that are out of it aren't interested in trade talk and sometimes don't even set lineups.

And just like how fantasy football first got me interested in watching games I ordinarily wouldn't care about, dynasty leagues made the draft and free agency much more fun. Usually I'd only look at who my favorite team drafted and maybe the 1st round. Now I like seeing the whole draft.

 

[TheFanatic]

I think too large of rosters can remove some of the skill from it as owners can stockpile players who will transition for them when their starters fade and not often enough be forced to make the tough decisions. This is an area where contract years can really help and adds another layer to the strategy than just a straight up dynasty league.

There is definitely a fine line between rosters being too big and not being able to stash that rook you know is going to be a stud. My main league has only 10 teams and 22 roster spots. There is plenty to snag off the WW. Also, we have contracts of 1-2 years with an option year, so every player has to go back on the market at least every three years. We have some provisions to keep those players but they have to at least hit the market. Owners have a franchise tag and a transition tag. Franchise tagged players can only be big on by guys with two first rounders in either of the next two years which will be compensation should the owner not match. AND the owner of the Franchised player gets to match at 80%. TRansitioned players require only a single 1st rounder to be bid on and there is no 80% match. It is 100%Most franchised players that move teams are sign and trade deals. The guy who wants the franchised player, gives the highest bid, the owner matches, knocks off 20% and trades him for more than two first rounders. Very few franchised players are flat out overbid and let go. So talk about adding a whole other layer to the league. Managing those tags is crucial. Last year I had Lynch who I just traded for, Brandon Marshall and Spiller all up at the end of the year. At the trade deadline I moved Spiller for Blackmon and a 1st rounder. Had I not traded him, I would've had to let one of the other players go to a straight up bidding war. On premier players, that can be ridiculously high.Now I have Lynch and Marshall up. I franchised Lynch and transitioned Marshall as this is a strong RB league. That and Marshall is up there in age. But I already have to think about my tags for next year. I have ADP, AJ Green and Julio are all up. I really don't want to move any of them but might have to. If I lose Marshal on Free Agent night this year, I will have to keep both WR's. If I keep him, I have a much better situation to move one of them. And not only do we have to manage our tags, in order to go after any other owners tagged players, we have to accumulate 1st round picks. No owner is allowed to bid if he doesn't have the picks. He can't promise to get the picks after he bids. Also, the callout order on FA night is huge and are tradeable. Say there are three top RB's out this year. It's much better to get your RB called out first. Generally, with two more to go, the bid won't be as high on the first one. But after a couple go, and owners get desperate, the bidding will be nuts on the 3rd. And if that's your RB and the other two are already gone and you lose him, there's nobody left to try to get. So we have many layers of complexity. We have a $32 million cap. Contract years, option years, tags, first round compensation, call out order on FA night, all of which have to be managed not just this year but in subsequent years. If an owner has everyone locked up and doesn't have anyone worth of a franchise or transition tag one year, that will bite him in the ### in a future year when 3, 4, 5 guys come up at the same time. He'll try to move them subtly, but the other owners will smell it and know he's having a fire sale because he has to sell and will lowball the hell out of him.

 

[Black]

I have one 2-person Keeper League (effectively redraft) and one Dynasty.

Generally I think it's a matter of part-time vs. full-time, or just different efforts different times of year.

The Dynasty League is most exciting in the NFL offseason, as there are fewer moves in-season. You pay attention to rookies and the All-Star Games, Combine, Draft, etc. The actual NFL Draft in April might be the most fun NFL event all year now with a Dynasty league. There are so many variables in Dynasty and many philosophies to running your team. You can choose how you want to run your team: build through the draft, move older big name players for up-and-coming players (or picks), whatever. You will live with your cuts/trades for a few years, so trades have much more weight. It's tough if you are like me and like to churn and burn in redraft...it's been a real lesson in patience to learn how to manage a team in Dynasty.

The Redraft is the opposite: you get geared up in July/August for the Draft, then are adding/cutting weekly during weeks 1-16. With fairly short rosters, there's alot of weekly Waiver pickups and cuts, and lots of trades that really only matter for this year.

Having both gives me the ability to sort of 'slow cook' and savor a decision I made two years ago (Dynasty) or just go for broke and play for the short term (ReDraft).

 

[wikkidpissah]

ive made five figures playing fantasy sports, but the biggest wins do not give me as much pleasure as daily consideration of the shape of my dynasty teams, even though they're all free or fee-only (betting on dynasty is too fish-in-a-barrel). dynasty combines the best of fandom and fatherhood - i love measuring the balance between fun & value as i grow my teams, just as with my boys. i wake up each August as a ffb player - i wake up every day as a dynasty owner. nufced

 

[RavenLunatic]

My biggest gripe even in dynasty is that there is still a schism between interest level of owners. Truly hard to find a full league of committed owners who stay involved all year long beyond the rookie draft and regular season.

Nothing worse than sending trade offers into black holes of non response.

I also agree that rosters need to be cut down in the offseason to promote activity, trades and auctions.

 

[ghostguy123]

Why dynasty???

Cause it is March 21st and I just pulled a blockbuster trade. That's why dynasty.

And in response to ravenlunatic above me, I think in general the more money the league costs, the more active the average owner will be. Now, this isn't 100% accurate in every case, but from what I have generally seen more serious and active people are willing to play the larger money leagues.

 

[TheFanatic]

Why dynasty???Cause it is March 21st and I just pulled a blockbuster trade. That's why dynasty.And in response to ravenlunatic above me, I think in general the more money the league costs, the more active the average owner will be. Now, this isn't 100% accurate in every case, but from what I have generally seen more serious and active people are willing to play the larger money leagues.

My main league is only $65/person and that's all for trophies, SB ring, room for FA night/rookie draft (pizza while there). No money for the winner other than the SB ring. The league is pretty active, although we are looking to have a mandatory down time where no trades can happen from 1/1 to about now. When we started the league we were just out of college (the year 2000) and had no priorities other than booze and cooz. Now, when we take a break between rounds, we stand around outside with the couple of smokers talking landscaping and investing!

 

[coolnerd]

Why dynasty???Cause it is March 21st and I just pulled a blockbuster trade. That's why dynasty.And in response to ravenlunatic above me, I think in general the more money the league costs, the more active the average owner will be. Now, this isn't 100% accurate in every case, but from what I have generally seen more serious and active people are willing to play the larger money leagues.

I have played in leagues that are MFL fee only leagues up to a few hundred and never noticed a difference in activity that was based on $$$. Just much take two weeks to answer a trade, people quitting for no reason, cheating, I am too busy to care about a third string Te, etc.

 

[Spike]

I think redraft has become too unrewarding to the guy who is willing to pour a lot of work into their teams. The less dedicated owners can show up to the draft with somebody else's rankings, draft a team, and with a little luck win the title. The biggest advantage left may be in setting lineups and calculating the guy to pick up before everyone else but I think the advantage is so slight from when I started playing 20 years ago. In dynasty I feel I now have more reward for my research and time I dedicate to my teams.

/thread

 

[squistion]

Why dynasty???

Cause it is March 21st and I just pulled a blockbuster trade. That's why dynasty.

And in response to ravenlunatic above me, I think in general the more money the league costs, the more active the average owner will be. Now, this isn't 100% accurate in every case, but from what I have generally seen more serious and active people are willing to play the larger money leagues.

In general, people take anything more seriously if money is involved, and the higher the stakes, the more seriously they take it. Most people would probably be more active in a $2000 league than a $10 or free league (not universally true, as evidenced by some rosters of the now defunct WCOFF).Yes, there are examples of free leagues or minimal cost leagues that have existed for 20 years and every owner is as active as in high stakes league. But, for the most part, "You get what you pay for," still holds true. Personally, I put a lot of time and effort in the cash leagues I am in and wouldn't do so just for bragging rights on the internet.