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Dynasty Ranking (1 Viewer)

Hear-the-Footsteps

Footballguy
I am doing my own dynasty rankings. In doing this, I am trying to figure out the best place for WR- Roy Williams.

The problem I am facing for Roy is his awful % of receptions based on his # of targets.

Do you think he has caught less than 50% of the balls thrown his way because:

a) he is still young and needs time to get better?

b) he had Harrington throwing to him - how close were those balls thrown to him afterall?

c) maybe he just isn't all that good?

Depending on the answer, I could see him anywhere in the 11-15 range among WRs, the 16-20; or even the 21-25 range.

Thanks!

 

Patoons

Footballguy
I am doing my own dynasty rankings. In doing this, I am trying to figure out the best place for WR- Roy Williams.

The problem I am facing for Roy is his awful % of receptions based on his # of targets.

Do you think he has caught less than 50% of the balls thrown his way because:

a) he is still young and needs time to get better?

b) he had Harrington throwing to him - how close were those balls thrown to him afterall?

c) maybe he just isn't all that good?

Depending on the answer, I could see him anywhere in the 11-15 range among WRs, the 16-20; or even the 21-25 range.

Thanks!
Harrington, no doubt.
 

Hear-the-Footsteps

Footballguy
I am doing my own dynasty rankings.  In doing this, I am trying to figure out the best place for WR- Roy Williams.

The problem I am facing for Roy is his awful % of receptions based on his # of targets.

Do you think he has caught less than 50% of the balls thrown his way because:

a) he is still young and needs time to get better?

b) he had Harrington throwing to him - how close were those balls thrown to him afterall?

c) maybe he just isn't all that good?

Depending on the answer, I could see him anywhere in the 11-15 range among WRs, the 16-20; or even the 21-25 range.

Thanks!
Harrington, no doubt.
Well, if you really believe that, do you really think it will get that much better with the likes of Jon Kitna, Josh McCown, or Dan Orlovsky?Yes, Kitna had that very respectable season with Cincy not too long ago. But a) that was now a few yrs ago, and b) he was throwing to Chad Johnson who could leap up and catch a bad throw better than most.

Meanwhile, McCown and Orlovsky have shown nothing. Granted it is b/c of a lack of opportunity - but you still have to think about who is throwing to a WR when you are ranking them (as just one of several criteria).

 

Spartans Rule

Footballguy
I am doing my own dynasty rankings.  In doing this, I am trying to figure out the best place for WR- Roy Williams.

The problem I am facing for Roy is his awful % of receptions based on his # of targets.

Do you think he has caught less than 50% of the balls thrown his way because:

a) he is still young and needs time to get better?

b) he had Harrington throwing to him - how close were those balls thrown to him afterall?

c) maybe he just isn't all that good?

Depending on the answer, I could see him anywhere in the 11-15 range among WRs, the 16-20; or even the 21-25 range.

Thanks!
Harrington, no doubt.
Well, if you really believe that, do you really think it will get that much better with the likes of Jon Kitna, Josh McCown, or Dan Orlovsky?Yes, Kitna had that very respectable season with Cincy not too long ago. But a) that was now a few yrs ago, and b) he was throwing to Chad Johnson who could leap up and catch a bad throw better than most.

Meanwhile, McCown and Orlovsky have shown nothing. Granted it is b/c of a lack of opportunity - but you still have to think about who is throwing to a WR when you are ranking them (as just one of several criteria).
I think Kitna will definitely be an upgrade. 2003 was his last full season and it was more than respectable; it was very good. He also has had only one really bad season, 2001. The rest of his years look average. He's certainly nothing special, but he will be an improvement over Harrington.Now my Lions fan take on Roy Williams... his talent is very real and very freakish. Don't doubt that for a second. His focus has not always been there - he drops passes, runs the wrong routes, etc. While certainly he shoulders some of the blame for this, the attitude of the team under Mooch was generally very poor and the offensive philosophy was conservative and predictable. I'm counting on Marinelli and Martz to make big improvements in those areas.

I would think Williams belongs more toward the 11-15 range.

 

Patoons

Footballguy
Well, if you really believe that, do you really think it will get that much better with the likes of Jon Kitna, Josh McCown, or Dan Orlovsky?

Yes, Kitna had that very respectable season with Cincy not too long ago. But a) that was now a few yrs ago, and b) he was throwing to Chad Johnson who could leap up and catch a bad throw better than most.

Meanwhile, McCown and Orlovsky have shown nothing. Granted it is b/c of a lack of opportunity - but you still have to think about who is throwing to a WR when you are ranking them (as just one of several criteria).
IMO McCown has a much stronger arm than Harrington and probably is a better QB. Look what McCown did with Boldin/Fitz. Granted they are great receivers, but I think ROY is up there in talent as well. With Martz, it's likely going to be a continued passing focus which should net him more targets. These QB's now (Kitna and McCown) also show/appear to have more confidence than Harrington and perform better because of it. Maybe Harrington needed a change of scenary to get a new beginning instead of having the top pick cloud over his head, but he just was dreadful.

This guy is something special should he stay healthy and remain on the field for a complete season.

 

FTRWRTR

Footballguy
I think most ppl would perceive him in the 11 - 15 range. Personally I think he has tons of talent but I'd put him somewhere in the 20's. Bottom line is he's never started more than 12 games in a season and his season high is 817 receiving yards I have to see more actual production from him before I'd bump him up in my rankings. Also I think kitna is light years ahead of harrington.

 

RBM

Footballguy
All the signs of a big time breakout year. Martz will be anything but conservative, so Roy will have plenty of opportunity. I actually think, when these guys put the pads on in August and start going in practice, Martz is going to drool over the freakish talent on Roy. QB situation should be improved, cant get any worse. No consistency there over the last 2 yrs. The older he gets, the more mature (hopefully) he gets, and that can only be a good thing. I cant imagine a guy like Marinelli accepting half-### efforts in his first stint as head coach.

I guess the only thing Id be worried about is the little, nagging injuries he has battled. If that corrects itself, definite potential to be top 10-12. I really think the opportunity will be there

 
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RC94

Footballguy
In my opinion, Roy Williams is approaching Andre Johnson - level overratedness.
He's only been in the league 2 years and those with a crappy QB.
That is why he is approaching that level. He isn't at that level yet, but he is on his way. And don't blame it just on the QBs. His work ethic, from everything that I have read about the DET WRs in general, leaves a lot to be desired.
 

RBM

Footballguy
In my opinion, Roy Williams is approaching Andre Johnson - level overratedness.
He's only been in the league 2 years and those with a crappy QB.
That is why he is approaching that level. He isn't at that level yet, but he is on his way. And don't blame it just on the QBs. His work ethic, from everything that I have read about the DET WRs in general, leaves a lot to be desired.
I cant imagine that will be tolerated anymore
 

RC94

Footballguy
In my opinion, Roy Williams is approaching Andre Johnson - level overratedness.
He's only been in the league 2 years and those with a crappy QB.
That is why he is approaching that level. He isn't at that level yet, but he is on his way. And don't blame it just on the QBs. His work ethic, from everything that I have read about the DET WRs in general, leaves a lot to be desired.
I cant imagine that will be tolerated anymore
I agree.
 

Hear-the-Footsteps

Footballguy
In my opinion, Roy Williams is approaching Andre Johnson - level overratedness.
He's only been in the league 2 years and those with a crappy QB.
That is why he is approaching that level. He isn't at that level yet, but he is on his way. And don't blame it just on the QBs. His work ethic, from everything that I have read about the DET WRs in general, leaves a lot to be desired.
I cant imagine that will be tolerated anymore
I agree.
Bad work ethic might get better. Might.But the bad work ethic combined with lots of dropped passes...that's two big things that you need to rely on getting better.

Just playing the other side here.

 

RC94

Footballguy
In my opinion, Roy Williams is approaching Andre Johnson - level overratedness.
He's only been in the league 2 years and those with a crappy QB.
That is why he is approaching that level. He isn't at that level yet, but he is on his way. And don't blame it just on the QBs. His work ethic, from everything that I have read about the DET WRs in general, leaves a lot to be desired.
I cant imagine that will be tolerated anymore
I agree.
Bad work ethic might get better. Might.But the bad work ethic combined with lots of dropped passes...that's two big things that you need to rely on getting better.

Just playing the other side here.
I agree with you. It's no sure thing that he will get better. I do think it's a sure thing, though, that Marinelli won't tollerate it like Mooch did.
 

Family Matters

Footballguy
Id be more worried about his injury history (including Texas) than his hands.
Great point Bloom. While this guy is a human highlite reel, he is also coming up limping or lame half the time he makes a catch, or so it seems.
 
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wannabee

Footballguy
Id be more worried about his injury history (including Texas) than his hands.
Great point Bloom. While this guy is a himan highlite reel, he is also coming up limping or lame half the time he makes a catch, or so it seems.
with Roy, is the spelling himan or hyman?
 
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WhoDat

Footballguy
Attitude problem, which is directed at dogging it on the field? I'll buy that.

Hands that can make the impossible possible and the easy hard? Without question.

Bad work ethic in terms of conditioning? No way...NO WAY. Williams might be one of the best conditioned athletes that Austin has produced. The feeling was that he was carrying far too much mass on his frame and his body fat percentage was at or near an unhealthy point, which means he could be prone to nagging injuries like ankle sprains and or hamstring pulls, due to the excess stress on his body. I was under the impression the Lions were going to address this at some point but Williams' still seems to be dinged more often than not.

 

Spartans Rule

Footballguy
I think Roy gets lumped in with Rogers and BMW unfairly as far as work ethic. Roy doesn't have the track record of missing workouts or showing up out of shape that those guys do.

I get the impression that Roy sincerely wants to be a great football player, but does not go about it the right way. He just needs some guidance. I don't know that the same can be said for the other two.

 

Bracie Smathers

Footballguy
I am doing my own dynasty rankings. In doing this, I am trying to figure out the best place for WR- Roy Williams.

The problem I am facing for Roy is his awful % of receptions based on his # of targets.

Do you think he has caught less than 50% of the balls thrown his way because:

a) he is still young and needs time to get better?

b) he had Harrington throwing to him - how close were those balls thrown to him afterall?

c) maybe he just isn't all that good?

Depending on the answer, I could see him anywhere in the 11-15 range among WRs, the 16-20; or even the 21-25 range.

Thanks!
For Dynasty rankings I have done, RBs, QBs, and WRs. This is what I came up with Dynasty WR rankings. I rate Roy Williams purty high for Dynasty purposes.http://mb25.scout.com/fbrownsinsiderfrm14....icID=1473.topic

April 18, after intial FA movement, two weeks prior to the NFL draft. I completely overlooked ranking any rookie WRs at this time because I screwed up and don't want to mess with it at this time, lol. Also I have no idea where they will end up and that will determine much of their value.

WRs bounce all over the fricken place each year in terms of production as few offenses provide a show with Old Faithful consistency outside of Indy but I rank these WRs in terms of dynasty production thus the top names get bonus points for youth and consistent situations. Oh yeah, injuries impact WR production worse than other positions, not just to the actual player but in terms of losing a QUALITY QB tossing them the rock thus the extreme volatility with fantasy WR production so proceed with caution and use this as a loose guide.

1 Torry Holt, STL

2 Larry Fitzgerald, ARI

3 Chad Johnson, CIN

4 Steve Smith, CAR

5 Anquan Boldin, ARI

------------------------

Top five dynasty WRs based on immediate past production and anticipated future production.

6 Roy Williams, DET

7 Santana Moss, WAS

------------------------

Think Roy Williams will eventually be a major WR. Santana flashed Steve Smith-esque explosive separation.

8 Randy Moss, OAK

9 Terrell Owens, DAL

10 Reggie Wayne, IND

11 Marvin Harrison, IND

------------------------

Golden oldies with Reggie Wayne crashing the party based on his Peyton situation which dictates his lofty ranking.

12 Chris Chambers, MIA

13 Darrell Jackson, SEA

--------------------------

Talent, yute, great situations.

14 Andre Johnson, HOU

15 Javon Walker, GB

16 Braylon Edwards, CLE

17 Michael Clayton, TB

-----------------------------

Talent, and yute but not in the best situations.

18 Hines Ward, PIT

19 Plaxico Burress, NYG

20 Lee Evans, BUF

21 Deion Branch, NE

22 Kevin Curtis, STL

-------------------------

Talent & plenty-O upside.

23 Derrick Mason, BAL

24 Joey Galloway, TB

25 Mark Clayton, BAL

26 Donald Driver, GB

27 Antonio Bryant, SF

28 Nate Burleson, SEA

29 Terry Glenn, DAL

30 David Givens, TEN

-------------------------------

Solid WRs/situations

31 Joe Horn, NO

32 Isaac Bruce, STL

33 T.J. Houshmandzadeh, CIN

34 Laveranues Coles, NYJ

35 Rod Smith, DEN

36 Drew Bennett, TEN

37 Reggie Brown, PHI

38 Troy Williamson, MIN

----------------------------

A plateau of niche talent

39 Muhsin Muhammad, CHI

40 Jimmy Smith, JAX

41 Eddie Kennison, KC

42 Keyshawn Johnson, CAR

----------------------------------

Elder talent on the downside.

43 Donte Stallworth, NO

44 Vincent Jackson, SD

45 Mark Bradley, CHI

46 Matt Jones, JAX

47 Brandon Lloyd, WAS

48 Jerry Porter, OAK

49 Chris Henry, CIN

50 Koren Robinson, MIN

51 Eric Moulds, HOU

52 Ernest Wilford, JAX

53 Roddy White, ATL

54 Michael Jenkins, ATL

55 Mike Williams, DET

56 Kelley Washington, CIN

57 Amani Toomer, NYG

--------------------------------

The rest

 

Bob_Magaw

Footballguy
I am doing my own dynasty rankings.  In doing this, I am trying to figure out the best place for WR- Roy Williams.

The problem I am facing for Roy is his awful % of receptions based on his # of targets.

Do you think he has caught less than 50% of the balls thrown his way because:

a) he is still young and needs time to get better?

b) he had Harrington throwing to him - how close were those balls thrown to him afterall?

c) maybe he just isn't all that good?

Depending on the answer, I could see him anywhere in the 11-15 range among WRs, the 16-20; or even the 21-25 range.

Thanks!
Harrington, no doubt.
Well, if you really believe that, do you really think it will get that much better with the likes of Jon Kitna, Josh McCown, or Dan Orlovsky?Yes, Kitna had that very respectable season with Cincy not too long ago. But a) that was now a few yrs ago, and b) he was throwing to Chad Johnson who could leap up and catch a bad throw better than most.

Meanwhile, McCown and Orlovsky have shown nothing. Granted it is b/c of a lack of opportunity - but you still have to think about who is throwing to a WR when you are ranking them (as just one of several criteria).
few WRs in the NFL make the difficult grab better than roy...the problem is he drops easy ones... this could be concentration issue... he is scary in open field, & he has to remember to secure ball first, BEFORE he turns & runs with it...

also, too many times in past harrington sprayed the ball all over the field like a wiffle ball, where he had to leave his feet... if kitna & mccown can just lead him & give him the opportunity to run with the ball after the catch (& i have little doubt they can be more accurate than harrington), he could be a monster...

marinelli upping the intensity & urgency, & martz designing plays for him have to be a plus...

if things break right, in dynasty leagues, imo he has top 10 ability, with top 3-5 upside...

i dealt LT (with darrell jackson & jerry porter) for caddy, boldin & roy recently... i was also looking at getting steven jackson, ronnie brown & reggie bush from other owners in league, but i found the upside of boldin & roy compelling...

 

Couch Potato

Footballguy
Hear-the-Footsteps:

To answer your original question, the primary non-injury reason for Williams' underachievement can be attributed to Harrington. An interesting blog article by Doug Drinen (LINK) points out that:

Code:
Since 1960, there have been 373 instances of a quarterback throwing 425 or more passes in an NFL or AFL season. According to yards-per-passing-attempt (YPA), the worst two belong to the same person: Joey Harrington. Think about all the bad teams and bad quarterbacks that have come and gone in the last 46 years. According to YPA, Joey was the worst. He was also the second worst. That’s mind-boggling.
Drinen goes on to point out that some of this can be attributed to Harrington's aversion to taking sacks and throwing uncatchable balls instead. So, it stands to reason that the cause for Williams' low completion % is out the door and things will improve dramatically in that area with the new starter, whichever one wins the job.
 
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