Dynasty Rankings (5 Viewers)

[squistion]

Anything going on with Beanie Wells? Im been sending out feelers in leagues that I could use RB depth. What WR would it take to get him?

It would take a Dwayne Bowe, Dez Bryant, Kenny Britt type WR for me to consider moving Wells. Assuming a non-ppr, RB heavy league. I am obviosuly still pretty high on Wells though.

I can't share your optimism about Wells. I didn't see many of the Cards games, but if you check message board threads about this player, comments keep surfacing that he either doesn't have it, or is missing something (although no one could really put their finger on what exactly is amiss). Another bad sign is that I keep getting trade offers from his owners trying to move him, which is an indication that it is a probably a buyer's market for Wells. I would never give up a Bowe/Bryant/Britt type player, for me it would be a WR in the tier below them (and even then I would be a little nervous with the acquisition).

 

[Go deep]

Anything going on with Beanie Wells? Im been sending out feelers in leagues that I could use RB depth. What WR would it take to get him?

It would take a Dwayne Bowe, Dez Bryant, Kenny Britt type WR for me to consider moving Wells. Assuming a non-ppr, RB heavy league. I am obviosuly still pretty high on Wells though.

I can't share your optimism about Wells. I didn't see many of the Cards games, but if you check message board threads about this player, comments keep surfacing that he either doesn't have it, or is missing something (although no one could really put their finger on what exactly is amiss). Another bad sign is that I keep getting trade offers from his owners trying to move him, which is an indication that it is a probably a buyer's market for Wells. I would never give up a Bowe/Bryant/Britt type player, for me it would be a WR in the tier below them (and even then I would be a little nervous with the acquisition).

I certainly understand your point, although i dont think he is missing anything. I think everything Cardinals suffered last year. Wells has definitely shown the talent though and is still just 22. Assuming the Cardinals can get that team going in the right direction i still think Wells can be a #1 FF back.Although it would take one of the WR's to get Wells from me, i wouldnt trade one of them for Wells. I wouldnt be willing to give more than a VJax or Marshall, and even that would be iffy depending my situation.I do think Wells is a perfect buy low right now either way, and would be a steal if you could get him for a Collie, Boldin, Welker, etc.

 

[The Real Hipster Doofus]

Anything going on with Beanie Wells? Im been sending out feelers in leagues that I could use RB depth. What WR would it take to get him?

I am still very high on Beanie. I think the Cards situation has been pretty bad so far, but I have no doubt that Beanie a top 10 RB talent in the league. I have been getting a lot of offers for him this offseason, but nothing anywhere close to where I value him. The best I have really gotten offered is a pick in the mid 1st round.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Anything going on with Beanie Wells? Im been sending out feelers in leagues that I could use RB depth. What WR would it take to get him?

It would take a Dwayne Bowe, Dez Bryant, Kenny Britt type WR for me to consider moving Wells. Assuming a non-ppr, RB heavy league. I am obviosuly still pretty high on Wells though.

Wow thats a high price tag.I mostly play PPR and the leagues I was trying to get him in are PPR.I woudlnt trade any WR you listed for him straight up.

 

[Go deep]

Anything going on with Beanie Wells? Im been sending out feelers in leagues that I could use RB depth. What WR would it take to get him?

It would take a Dwayne Bowe, Dez Bryant, Kenny Britt type WR for me to consider moving Wells. Assuming a non-ppr, RB heavy league. I am obviosuly still pretty high on Wells though.

Wow thats a high price tag.I mostly play PPR and the leagues I was trying to get him in are PPR.I woudlnt trade any WR you listed for him straight up.

No, i wouldnt trade any of them for Wells in a non-ppr, thats just what it would take for me to trade him. In a PPR, i would probably take any WR in the top 20-25 for Wells.

 

[Team Legacy]

I would put Wells comparable to a Mike Thomas, Mario Manningham, Santonio Holmes category, maybe not as much as these guys, but if I believed in him, I guess I'd give up one of those wideouts to get him.

 

[eaglesfan7]

I would put Wells comparable to a Mike Thomas, Mario Manningham, Santonio Holmes category, maybe not as much as these guys, but if I believed in him, I guess I'd give up one of those wideouts to get him.

Well that's not really giving up anything. Wells has to be worth more than that in dynasty.

 

[corpcow]

I would put Wells comparable to a Mike Thomas, Mario Manningham, Santonio Holmes category, maybe not as much as these guys, but if I believed in him, I guess I'd give up one of those wideouts to get him.

Whoa... I would not classify Mario or Mike Thomas anywhere close to Santonio Holmes. Holmes is a top 15 guy for me - the others are WR30 probably at best.I would DEFINITELY trade Mike Thomas or Mario to get Wells, if I could. As a Wells owner in some of my leagues, there's no way I would trade him for anyone of them except Holmes. Wells' upside is too great, IMO - he has the talent to be a top 5 back, and if the situation corrects itself a little (last year put Fitz at WR what?) - he'll show that. Watching him, it was never a talent thing. Healthy maybe...

 

[Dragon1952]

I would put Wells comparable to a Mike Thomas, Mario Manningham, Santonio Holmes category, maybe not as much as these guys, but if I believed in him, I guess I'd give up one of those wideouts to get him.

Whoa... I would not classify Mario or Mike Thomas anywhere close to Santonio Holmes. Holmes is a top 15 guy for me - the others are WR30 probably at best.I would DEFINITELY trade Mike Thomas or Mario to get Wells, if I could. As a Wells owner in some of my leagues, there's no way I would trade him for anyone of them except Holmes. Wells' upside is too great, IMO - he has the talent to be a top 5 back, and if the situation corrects itself a little (last year put Fitz at WR what?) - he'll show that. Watching him, it was never a talent thing. Healthy maybe...

I agree....Holmes is quite a bit above Manningham or Thomas. I'd trade those latter 2 in a heartbeat for Wells.

 

[corpcow]

Until I noticed the date of the last update, I was wondering why Jacoby Ford Jones was so low. He showed me enough last year to at least be on my radar - with that speed and his aggressive style, he impressed as a rookie. He barely did anything the first half of the season, but was WR9 over the second half and that was including a bye week.

How high does he go?

ETA: Obviously, I was talking about Ford who put up good numbers this past season, his rookie season, not Jacoby Jones, everyone's favorite breakout candidate for the past 4 years

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Until I noticed the date of the last update, I was wondering why Jacoby Jones was so low. He showed me enough last year to at least be on my radar - with that speed and his aggressive style, he impressed as a rookie. He barely did anything the first half of the season, but was WR9 over the second half and that was including a bye week.

How high does he go?

I don't think the bolded can possibly be right. Jones had games of 0, 5, 13, and 20 yards in the second half and just two TDs. I know he fell off the radar in the eyes of many during the season, but I'm still a believer. I ranked him 50th in early February, and I'd probably put him 5-10 spots higher right now.

 

[The Man With No Name]

Until I noticed the date of the last update, I was wondering why Jacoby Jones was so low. He showed me enough last year to at least be on my radar - with that speed and his aggressive style, he impressed as a rookie. He barely did anything the first half of the season, but was WR9 over the second half and that was including a bye week. How high does he go?

You're confused. In his FOUR seasons, he has 96 catches, 1229 yards and 9 td's.Had 15/149/0 as a rookie.

 

[Chimp Magnet]

Until I noticed the date of the last update, I was wondering why Jacoby Jones was so low. He showed me enough last year to at least be on my radar - with that speed and his aggressive style, he impressed as a rookie. He barely did anything the first half of the season, but was WR9 over the second half and that was including a bye week. How high does he go?

Are you thinking Jacoby Ford in Oakland?In my league scoring he was #11 overall while Jones #43.

 

[corpcow]

Until I noticed the date of the last update, I was wondering why Jacoby Jones was so low. He showed me enough last year to at least be on my radar - with that speed and his aggressive style, he impressed as a rookie. He barely did anything the first half of the season, but was WR9 over the second half and that was including a bye week. How high does he go?

Are you thinking Jacoby Ford in Oakland?In my league scoring he was #11 overall while Jones #43.

Sorry, yes... mis-typed. Obviously I was talking about Jacoby Ford. (Jones was not a rookie either!).

 

[corpcow]

Until I noticed the date of the last update, I was wondering why Jacoby Jones was so low. He showed me enough last year to at least be on my radar - with that speed and his aggressive style, he impressed as a rookie. He barely did anything the first half of the season, but was WR9 over the second half and that was including a bye week.

How high does he go?

I don't think the bolded can possibly be right. Jones had games of 0, 5, 13, and 20 yards in the second half and just two TDs. I know he fell off the radar in the eyes of many during the season, but I'm still a believer. I ranked him 50th in early February, and I'd probably put him 5-10 spots higher right now.

Until I noticed the date of the last update, I was wondering why Jacoby Jones was so low. He showed me enough last year to at least be on my radar - with that speed and his aggressive style, he impressed as a rookie. He barely did anything the first half of the season, but was WR9 over the second half and that was including a bye week.

How high does he go?

You're confused. In his FOUR seasons, he has 96 catches, 1229 yards and 9 td's.Had 15/149/0 as a rookie.

Not confused, just mistyped. Sorry about that.Obviously I was talking about Jacoby Ford, not Jacoby Jones - the latter who was not a rookie last year, did not in fact do much in the 2nd half, and had a week 7 bye.

 

[eaglesfan7]

Until I noticed the date of the last update, I was wondering why Jacoby Jones was so low. He showed me enough last year to at least be on my radar - with that speed and his aggressive style, he impressed as a rookie. He barely did anything the first half of the season, but was WR9 over the second half and that was including a bye week.

How high does he go?

I don't think the bolded can possibly be right. Jones had games of 0, 5, 13, and 20 yards in the second half and just two TDs. I know he fell off the radar in the eyes of many during the season, but I'm still a believer. I ranked him 50th in early February, and I'd probably put him 5-10 spots higher right now.

Until I noticed the date of the last update, I was wondering why Jacoby Jones was so low. He showed me enough last year to at least be on my radar - with that speed and his aggressive style, he impressed as a rookie. He barely did anything the first half of the season, but was WR9 over the second half and that was including a bye week.

How high does he go?

You're confused. In his FOUR seasons, he has 96 catches, 1229 yards and 9 td's.Had 15/149/0 as a rookie.

Not confused, just mistyped. Obviously I was talking about Jacoby Ford, not Jacoby Jones (who was not, in fact, a rookie last year either).

Not sure how it is obvious.

 

[Instinctive]

If you assume he is right about the player being a rookie, but mixed up a last name, it's obvious. If you assume he got the year wrong, it isn't. Considering the description perfectly fit Ford, I think it was obvious.

I like him in my Z-Leagues and any other league with KR yards.

 

[corpcow]

Not confused, just mistyped. Obviously I was talking about Jacoby Ford, not Jacoby Jones (who was not, in fact, a rookie last year either).

Not sure how it is obvious.

I guess I thought it was "obvious" in that a) Jacoby Jones did not finish the year as WR9, b) did not have a bye in the second half of the year, c) not was not a rookie, and d) ran a 4.50 (which is "average" vs. Jacoby Ford's elite speed, timed at 4.28 at the combine and was even faster in high school. In fact, none of the things I asked related to the question would apply to Jacoby Jones. If anything, I probably made the mistake wondering why Jacoby Jones was about 100 spots higher than Jacoby Ford.... Jacoby on the mind.But, regardless - I apologize for the confusion. Can we now get back on track and focus on where Jacoby Ford belongs on the dynasty rankings?

 

[corpcow]

If you assume he is right about the player being a rookie, but mixed up a last name, it's obvious. If you assume he got the year wrong, it isn't. Considering the description perfectly fit Ford, I think it was obvious.I like him in my Z-Leagues and any other league with KR yards.

The reason I bring him up is not just the production at the end of the year. What I was most impressed at were a couple of really tough catches he made in traffic, and what looked like solid routes for someone who was not known for that. He is a bit undersized, but has ELITE speed. We've been waiting for the "next Steve Smith" for awhile, and the way he played certainly reminded me in some ways of the way Steve Smith attacks the ball, something I didn't see from other candidates. And yeah, obviously, if you get KR yards, he's a great asset since he seems likely to also put up WR stats (assuming you get both), and at least has the long-term upside. But I'm focused more in standard leagues (PPR or otherwise).

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Can we now get back on track and focus on where Jacoby Ford belongs on the dynasty rankings?

I had him 39th in early February. I'd probably bump him 2-3 spots right now, so mid-30s. I'm high on him for the reasons you laid out.

 

[Spike]

Can we now get back on track and focus on where Jacoby Ford belongs on the dynasty rankings?

I had him 39th in early February. I'd probably bump him 2-3 spots right now, so mid-30s. I'm high on him for the reasons you laid out.

With what is happening (or likely to happen) with the league voting whether to have kickoffs moved from the 30 to the 35 yard line and touchbacks move from the 20 to the 25 yard line, wouldn't it make sense to downgrade him? (And others like him.)

 

[thriftyrocker]

Can we now get back on track and focus on where Jacoby Ford belongs on the dynasty rankings?

I had him 39th in early February. I'd probably bump him 2-3 spots right now, so mid-30s. I'm high on him for the reasons you laid out.

If you're looking for a guy from tier 5 or tier 6 who could breakthrough and become top 20, is he the best guy to own? I see guys like Knox, Thomas, and Sanders elevated by situation but don't see them ever becoming high value pieces. I see that upside in Ford a little bit. Simpson is another guy who seems like higher risk, higher return.The young-ish guys in these tiers are

28. Garcon - will never be elite despite his elite situation

29. Nelson - upside as 3rd option on an elite pass offense could help him rise a tier but not much more

30. Manningham - odd man out if Nicks and Smith are healthy, FA in 2012

31. Knox - great situation, good talent, some holes in his game that limit his upside

35. Smith NYG - we have seen his upside pre-Nicks and it was barely top 25

38. Meachem - upside is hoping for Colston to breakdown

39. Ford - possible #1 WR on mediocre (but highly vertical) pass offense, similar to Knox but worse situation and more physical (possibly higher upside)

40. Alexander - elite upside but injury concerns will always be there

41. Thomas - good situation, good talent, some holes in his game

44. Simpson - elite physical tools (when Julio got the 2nd longest broad jump in combine history, it was 2nd to Simpson's), did the light bulb go on or was it an Aromashaduian mirage, opportunity a huge question with possible new QB, leaving WRs, drafting WRs, etc.

48. Sanders - very good situation, don't see him being elite

50. Jacoby Jones - similar player to Simpson, light bulb still not completely on

51. Benn - a lot of late 2011 and 2012 potential

 

[griff321]

F&L...David Reed seems to be a popular deep-deep dynasty pickup this offseason. The Ravens really like him, early indications have him as the third WR because Housh and Stallworth appear likely to be departing this offseason, and Mason doesn't have more then a year or two left.

You left him unranked in February. I'm thinking if this were a PPR list he may have made it at the end, but I'm just guessing here. Where would you rank him now in PPR/Reg. formats? I like Reed, but my feeling is his upside may be fairly low especially in standard leagues because he seems like a slot guy.

BTW, ridiculously outstanding information on Collie thank you so much. Sometimes it's hard to sort opinion from fact on these news snippets. Even if I can't use it because the Collie owner wants top five-ten WR value.

 

[bonesman]

44. Simpson - elite physical tools (when Julio got the 2nd longest broad jump in combine history, it was 2nd to Simpson's), did the light bulb go on or was it an Aromashaduian mirage, opportunity a huge question with possible new QB, leaving WRs, drafting WRs, etc.

LOL... good one.There's always that one reciever that has a nice couple of games to close out the season that people get excited about but then does jack the following year. Like Aromashau had a Jonnie Lee Higginian type run (but more hyped because of the quality QB).

Simpson looks like a good candidate for 2011... especially w/ the Bengal's QB situation in flux.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Can we now get back on track and focus on where Jacoby Ford belongs on the dynasty rankings?

I had him 39th in early February. I'd probably bump him 2-3 spots right now, so mid-30s. I'm high on him for the reasons you laid out.

With what is happening (or likely to happen) with the league voting whether to have kickoffs moved from the 30 to the 35 yard line and touchbacks move from the 20 to the 25 yard line, wouldn't it make sense to downgrade him? (And others like him.)

I don't play in return-yardage Dynasty leagues, so there's no way I'd downgrade him. Fewer kickoff returns might mean the Raiders give him more offensive snaps instead.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

F&L...David Reed seems to be a popular deep-deep dynasty pickup this offseason. The Ravens really like him, early indications have him as the third WR because Housh and Stallworth appear likely to be departing this offseason, and Mason doesn't have more then a year or two left.You left him unranked in February. I'm thinking if this were a PPR list he may have made it at the end, but I'm just guessing here. Where would you rank him now in PPR/Reg. formats? I like Reed, but my feeling is his upside may be fairly low especially in standard leagues because he seems like a slot guy.BTW, ridiculously outstanding information on Collie thank you so much. Sometimes it's hard to sort opinion from fact on these news snippets. Even if I can't use it because the Collie owner wants top five-ten WR value.

I think Reed is "just a guy." Do you really believe he's going to be the No. 3 WR in 2011? The Ravens have made it clear that they're going to import a downfield playmaker as a high priority this offseason.I don't think the Ravens are any higher on Reed than other teams are on their project receivers. He was a star in non-contact practices, which puts him on par with the likes of Tiquan Underwood. I'm not saying Reed can't eventually succeed Derrick Mason or carve out a niche as a slot receiver, but I've seen nothing to believe he's a top-100 receiver in Dynasty right now. In other words, he's not near the top of my deep sleeper list.

 

[squistion]

44. Simpson - elite physical tools (when Julio got the 2nd longest broad jump in combine history, it was 2nd to Simpson's), did the light bulb go on or was it an Aromashaduian mirage, opportunity a huge question with possible new QB, leaving WRs, drafting WRs, etc.

LOL... good one.There's always that one reciever that has a nice couple of games to close out the season that people get excited about but then does jack the following year. Like Aromashau had a Jonnie Lee Higginian type run (but more hyped because of the quality QB).

Simpson looks like a good candidate for 2011... especially w/ the Bengal's QB situation in flux.

I don't really agree with that, in fact I actually look for receivers who step up in the closing weeks of the season as it quite often portends that they do well the following year (I targeted Santonio Holmes after he caught fire in the closing weeks of his rookie season and have done pretty well with that pick over the years). Now it is true that last year the excitement over Devin may indeed have been Aromashodu about nothing, but it seemed to me his lack of playing time in 2010 was a product of his being a poor fit for a Mike Martz offense more than anything else (he should be leaving the Bears this year - and although it is unlikely he might resurface as a viable fantasy option on another team down the line, I wouldn't completely write him off yet).

And Simpson keeps looking better and better to me - here is blurb taken from Rotoworld a couple of days ago:

link

Coach Marvin Lewis suggested that Jerome Simpson could fill the No. 1 receiver bill if the Bengals trade Chad Ochocinco."When Chad got hurt, Jerome became the No. 1 receiver," said Lewis. "I think he can be as good as any receiver in the National Football League. But now, he's got to keep taking steps to learn and the adjustments you have to do, but he's got that kind of quality." Mar 22, 10:50 PM

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

30. Manningham - odd man out if Nicks and Smith are healthy, FA in 2012

I see this alot, I think Steve Smith is an average talent with really good hands, But I could see Mario passing him on the depth cart soon.

Mario always seems to be the dismissed WR on that team and he provides value.

YR TM G RSH YD Y/R TD TRG REC YD Y/R TD FPT RANK VBD   2008 NYG 8 1 -12 -12.0 0 6 4 26 6.5 0 1 166 0 [game logs] [splits] 2009 NYG 14 0 0 0.0 0 99 57 822 14.4 5 112 30 0 [game logs] [splits] 2010 NYG 16 1 2 2.0 0 92 60 944 15.7 9 149 18 29 [game logs] [splits] TOT  38 2 -10 -5.0 0 197 121 1792 14.8 14 262  29

 

[thriftyrocker]

I watched the NYG/TEN game and I'm wondering if Mario Manningham is undervalued. Smith is the guy who delivered 100 receptions last year, Nicks is the guy with pedigree who looks the part, but (other than red zone) Eli's seeming to favor Manningham as much as anyone. The talent was always there. He was considered a 1st round pick by some before his combine 40 time was terrible, and he always delivered in college.

I do like him. I think he'd be good on another team, but it will be hard for him to find the chemistry he has right now (see Nate Burleson). Smith is a FA right now. Manningham is a FA next year. I can't see them devoting money to both Smith and Manningham. If they don't give Smith a new contract, obviously Manningham gets a huge bump (and his price will go up immediately), but I doubt that happens

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

I watched the NYG/TEN game and I'm wondering if Mario Manningham is undervalued. Smith is the guy who delivered 100 receptions last year, Nicks is the guy with pedigree who looks the part, but (other than red zone) Eli's seeming to favor Manningham as much as anyone. The talent was always there. He was considered a 1st round pick by some before his combine 40 time was terrible, and he always delivered in college.

I do like him. I think he'd be good on another team, but it will be hard for him to find the chemistry he has right now (see Nate Burleson). Smith is a FA right now. Manningham is a FA next year. I can't see them devoting money to both Smith and Manningham. If they don't give Smith a new contract, obviously Manningham gets a huge bump (and his price will go up immediately), but I doubt that happens

I think Smiths 100 catch season was an anomaly, even though he was on pace to get 85 last season (hard to tell becuase he got hurt, twice) Marios' ypc went up a full yard over the pervious season on the same amount of catches (practically)We will see what kind of deal they give Smith here. What kind of tag/tender did they give him? IMO Smith is the possesion WR3/Slot type

 

[thriftyrocker]

We will see what kind of deal they give Smith here. What kind of tag/tender did they give him?

2nd round - same as Bradshaw and Boss fwiw

 

[ConnSKINS26]

After a down season, where does everyone have Matt Schaub? He's proven to be healthy the last two seasons, so he might finally be shaking the "glass" label.

I'm thinking of trying to move Rivers for Schaub, and I'm wondering how Schaub is valued right now, and if what I could get in return would be enough to make up for the downgrade (or if people even think there IS much of a downgrade, if they believe Schaub will bounce back)

 

[thriftyrocker]

After a down season, where does everyone have Matt Schaub? He's proven to be healthy the last two seasons, so he might finally be shaking the "glass" label. I'm thinking of trying to move Rivers for Schaub, and I'm wondering how Schaub is valued right now, and if what I could get in return would be enough to make up for the downgrade (or if people even think there IS much of a downgrade, if they believe Schaub will bounce back)

He's neck and neck with Eli and Flacco for me as high QB2s. Clear step down from the top 8, and I would personally prefer the young guns to him (Ryan, Bradford, Freeman). The difference is enough to get a very good player/prospect but not a great one. E.g., 1.6 but not 1.3, Bradshaw but not Mathews. In most cases I would hold Rivers or look to downgrade to Roethlisberger instead.Coop has a Rivers/Schaub trade circa January in the trades thread.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

After a down season, where does everyone have Matt Schaub? He's proven to be healthy the last two seasons, so he might finally be shaking the "glass" label. I'm thinking of trying to move Rivers for Schaub, and I'm wondering how Schaub is valued right now, and if what I could get in return would be enough to make up for the downgrade (or if people even think there IS much of a downgrade, if they believe Schaub will bounce back)

He's neck and neck with Eli and Flacco for me as high QB2s. Clear step down from the top 8, and I would personally prefer the young guns to him (Ryan, Bradford, Freeman). The difference is enough to get a very good player/prospect but not a great one. E.g., 1.6 but not 1.3, Bradshaw but not Mathews. In most cases I would hold Rivers or look to downgrade to Roethlisberger instead.Coop has a Rivers/Schaub trade circa January in the trades thread.

Thanks, I just checked that out...not really the value I wanted to see, that's for sure. The Big Ben owner in my league doesn't see it as enough of an upgrade for him to give away anything of real value, so that's not really happening. I was hoping to ask for Schaub, a mid-first (1.6-1.7), a mid-second, and a young flier. Guess the perceived difference in value might not be there, even after a bit of a slump for Schaub.

 

[squistion]

After a down season, where does everyone have Matt Schaub? He's proven to be healthy the last two seasons, so he might finally be shaking the "glass" label.

I'm thinking of trying to move Rivers for Schaub, and I'm wondering how Schaub is valued right now, and if what I could get in return would be enough to make up for the downgrade (or if people even think there IS much of a downgrade, if they believe Schaub will bounce back)

I wouldn't move Rivers for Schaub, they are about the same age, but Rivers has a lot more upside. I currently have Schaub at QB #11 in my rankings. Schaub's numbers were down last season due to the emergence of Foster and there may be a bounce back in his passing stats at some point in the future, but I don't think it will be the coming season. And the glass label was generally given by those who weren't familiar with the rather quirky nature of his injuries (like an arguably illegal hit or having a 300+ pound nose tackle fall on him). I felt going into last season he was no more of an injury risk than any other QB and I still believe that.

 

[gianmarco]

After a down season, where does everyone have Matt Schaub? He's proven to be healthy the last two seasons, so he might finally be shaking the "glass" label.

I'm thinking of trying to move Rivers for Schaub, and I'm wondering how Schaub is valued right now, and if what I could get in return would be enough to make up for the downgrade (or if people even think there IS much of a downgrade, if they believe Schaub will bounce back)

4400 yds with 24 TDs and 12 INTs is a down season? Really?

The guy played all 16 games and finished QB7. I mean, yeah, he didn't throw for 4700 and 29 like the year before, but those #'s are pretty darn solid, especially now 2 years in a row and playing in all 16 games both years. Oh, and over 63% pass completion rating which is pretty solid as well and 7.6 ypa. Only Rivers, Peyton, and Brees threw for more yards.

Not seeing the "down season".

Schaub is not a QB2. He is very much a QB1 and probably the cheapest one you can get that has done it 2 years in a row (and not far behind the year before if you prorate his #'s for his 5 game injury).

 

[Concept Coop]

Thanks, I just checked that out...not really the value I wanted to see, that's for sure. The Big Ben owner in my league doesn't see it as enough of an upgrade for him to give away anything of real value, so that's not really happening. I was hoping to ask for Schaub, a mid-first (1.6-1.7), a mid-second, and a young flier. Guess the perceived difference in value might not be there, even after a bit of a slump for Schaub.

Don't look at my trade for value you could likely get. My league was very luke warm on the thought of upgrading the QB spot. I could have gotten a lot more in any of my other leagues. I should have held off, honestly, and tried again when teams are getting ready for the season and really looking at their rosters. I don't regret the move, based on what I got. I just should have waited and gotten more. That said, I think moving Rivers for Schaub+ is a very wise move. Schaub scored more than Rivers in 09 and SD's special teams is not going to leave the offense in as many binds as it did this season. I think their production will be pretty close over the next 2-3 years. Schaub is a buy low and Rivers is a solid sell high candidate.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

I wouldn't move Rivers for Schaub, they are about the same age, but Rivers has a lot more upside. I currently have Schaub at QB #11 in my rankings. Schaub's numbers were down last season due to the emergence of Foster and there may be a bounce back in his passing stats at some point in the future, but I don't think it will be the coming season.

And the glass label was generally given by those who weren't familiar with the rather quirky nature of his injuries (like an arguably illegal hit or having a 300+ pound nose tackle fall on him). I felt going into last season he was no more of an injury risk than any other QB and I still believe that.

Thanks for the response. I'm not sure that Rivers has more upside than Schaub. I love Rivers, and he had a great year for me last year: So great that I'm not sure he HAS more upside than those numbers. Not much more, anyways.What you get with Rivers is consistency, however. He's a more consistent 20+ scorer than Schaub, even during Schaub's best year.

But the reason I'd make that sacrifice would be to improve the team around my QB position. I would be making a small dropoff, if that, to another QB the same age, to improve the rest of my roster. Without any more high-quality draft picks to deal, that's what's left for me to improve the rest of my roster going into the season.

4400 yds with 24 TDs and 12 INTs is a down season? Really?

The guy played all 16 games and finished QB7. I mean, yeah, he didn't throw for 4700 and 29 like the year before, but those #'s are pretty darn solid, especially now 2 years in a row and playing in all 16 games both years. Oh, and over 63% pass completion rating which is pretty solid as well and 7.6 ypa. Only Rivers, Peyton, and Brees threw for more yards.

Not seeing the "down season".

Schaub is not a QB2. He is very much a QB1 and probably the cheapest one you can get that has done it 2 years in a row (and not far behind the year before if you prorate his #'s for his 5 game injury).

Its a "down season" in comparison to his season the year before, and a "down season" in comparison to River's season. That's all I meant. I wouldn't be targeting Schaub when trying to trade away Rivers if I didn't think he was a QB1.I agree with you that Schaub is a great buy right now as a QB1...that's why I'd be willing to "drop" from Rivers to Schaub if it improved the rest of my team enough.

Don't look at my trade for value you could likely get. My league was very luke warm on the thought of upgrading the QB spot. I could have gotten a lot more in any of my other leagues. I should have held off, honestly, and tried again when teams are getting ready for the season and really looking at their rosters. I don't regret the move, based on what I got. I just should have waited and gotten more.

That said, I think moving Rivers for Schaub+ is a very wise move. Schaub scored more than Rivers in 09 and SD's special teams is not going to leave the offense in as many binds as it did this season. I think their production will be pretty close over the next 2-3 years. Schaub is a buy low and Rivers is a solid sell high candidate.

Thanks for the feedback as well Coop, I agree that a Rivers owner "should" get more than you got in a Schaub trade, but I can see why you liked it and did it.As to the second part, that's what I'm aiming for. To be ahead of the curve a bit, and move Rivers after a phenomenal year: not because I don't think he'll do it again, I think he probably can come close, but because I think Schaub will score about the same in the coming years. And if I can get good value, I think this is one of the best ways I have left this offseason to REALLY improve my team as a whole.

Another thing is this:

We've seen Schaub produce when his running game takes over, for all intents and purposes: he still produced as a high-level QB1, even if it wasn't at the elite Manning-Brees-Rogers-Rivers level.

We haven't seen Rivers, at his current level of skill, when the running game takes over, and I don't think you trade up and invest all of that into Ryan Mathews unless you really want to balance out the offense. We don't know how River's production will suffer.

For these reasons and more I think Schaub and Rivers can very likely have about the same level of production in the coming years. So, if I can get more assets to improve my team out of a deal involving those two, its an avenue I have to consider.

 

[thriftyrocker]

Schaub is not a QB2. He is very much a QB1 and probably the cheapest one you can get that has done it 2 years in a row (and not far behind the year before if you prorate his #'s for his 5 game injury).

He's a redraft QB1. He's a dynasty QB2 (a high one, but not in the top 12 for me). Other than Vick, he's the guy in the first 2 tiers mostly likely to be irrelevant 4 years from now. You don't have to look much further than Kyle Orton's precipitous fall in value since Dec.

 

[Concept Coop]

Schaub is not a QB2. He is very much a QB1 and probably the cheapest one you can get that has done it 2 years in a row (and not far behind the year before if you prorate his #'s for his 5 game injury).

He's a redraft QB1. He's a dynasty QB2 (a high one, but not in the top 12 for me). Other than Vick, he's the guy in the first 2 tiers mostly likely to be irrelevant 4 years from now. You don't have to look much further than Kyle Orton's precipitous fall in value since Dec.

I don't get this. He is 29 and has posted 3 (pro-rated) QB1 seasons in a row. He is the 11th QB in NFL history to throw for 4,000 yards in back-to-back seasons. He finished 1st in yards in 09 and 4th in 2010. What about his game leads you to suggest he could be irrelevent in 4 years? And list of guys that could be in 4 years needs to include Brady and Manning, who are older and could call it quits by then. He is clearly a dynasty QB1 in my mind. Those that suggest otherwise must buy into the Bradford, Freeman, Stafford (all three) hype. All of those guys (and then some) would have to pan out at QB1s to push Schaub out of the top 12. Not only that, but you must also overrate Matt Ryan becuase of his name.The Orton comparison clearly falls short. Orten put up a portion of a monster season, after years of average procution. All Schaub has done is produce FF poins.

 

[thriftyrocker]

Schaub is not a QB2. He is very much a QB1 and probably the cheapest one you can get that has done it 2 years in a row (and not far behind the year before if you prorate his #'s for his 5 game injury).

He's a redraft QB1. He's a dynasty QB2 (a high one, but not in the top 12 for me). Other than Vick, he's the guy in the first 2 tiers mostly likely to be irrelevant 4 years from now. You don't have to look much further than Kyle Orton's precipitous fall in value since Dec.

I don't get this. He is 29 and has posted 3 (pro-rated) QB1 seasons in a row. He is the 11th QB in NFL history to throw for 4,000 yards in back-to-back seasons. He finished 1st in yards in 09 and 4th in 2010. What about his game leads you to suggest he cbe irrelevent in 4 years?

0 playoff appearances and Kubiak would already be fired if it wasn't for the work stoppage.

 

[Concept Coop]

Schaub is not a QB2. He is very much a QB1 and probably the cheapest one you can get that has done it 2 years in a row (and not far behind the year before if you prorate his #'s for his 5 game injury).

He's a redraft QB1. He's a dynasty QB2 (a high one, but not in the top 12 for me). Other than Vick, he's the guy in the first 2 tiers mostly likely to be irrelevant 4 years from now. You don't have to look much further than Kyle Orton's precipitous fall in value since Dec.

I don't get this. He is 29 and has posted 3 (pro-rated) QB1 seasons in a row. He is the 11th QB in NFL history to throw for 4,000 yards in back-to-back seasons. He finished 1st in yards in 09 and 4th in 2010. What about his game leads you to suggest he cbe irrelevent in 4 years?

0 playoff appearances and Kubiak would already be fired if it wasn't for the work stoppage.

Still confused. He is clearly a starting QB and will not be replaced. If you want to point the finger for the lack of playoff appearances, I think we should start with the historically bad defense. I don't think Schaub needs Kubiak to be a QB1, year in, year out.

 

[The Berry Man]

Schaub is not a QB2. He is very much a QB1 and probably the cheapest one you can get that has done it 2 years in a row (and not far behind the year before if you prorate his #'s for his 5 game injury).

He's a redraft QB1. He's a dynasty QB2 (a high one, but not in the top 12 for me). Other than Vick, he's the guy in the first 2 tiers mostly likely to be irrelevant 4 years from now. You don't have to look much further than Kyle Orton's precipitous fall in value since Dec.

Help me here - what does Kyle Orton have to do with Matt Schaub?

 

[thriftyrocker]

0 playoff appearances and Kubiak would already be fired if it wasn't for the work stoppage.

Still confused. He is clearly a starting QB and will not be replaced. If you want to point the finger for the lack of playoff appearances, I think we should start with the historically bad defense. I don't think Schaub needs Kubiak to be a QB1, year in, year out.

Certainly doesn't hurt, amirite? Don't think he has a ton of job security in Houston. If teams can want Palmer, teams will want him, but his lacking of winning means something in the NFL even if it doesn't count in your fantasy boxscore.

He's a redraft QB1. He's a dynasty QB2 (a high one, but not in the top 12 for me). Other than Vick, he's the guy in the first 2 tiers mostly likely to be irrelevant 4 years from now. You don't have to look much further than Kyle Orton's precipitous fall in value since Dec.

Help me here - what does Kyle Orton have to do with Matt Schaub?

His value was a low QB1/high QB2 in October and a low QB2 in December. He threw for a ton of yards and was top 5 in scoring for the year before they throwing a young QB out there and a coaching change made it all disappear. You're free to ignore this possibility, but if it can happen to Kurt Warner, it can happen to Matt Schaub.

 

[The Berry Man]

0 playoff appearances and Kubiak would already be fired if it wasn't for the work stoppage.

Still confused. He is clearly a starting QB and will not be replaced. If you want to point the finger for the lack of playoff appearances, I think we should start with the historically bad defense. I don't think Schaub needs Kubiak to be a QB1, year in, year out.

Certainly doesn't hurt, amirite? Don't think he has a ton of job security in Houston. If teams can want Palmer, teams will want him, but his lacking of winning means something in the NFL even if it doesn't count in your fantasy boxscore.

He's a redraft QB1. He's a dynasty QB2 (a high one, but not in the top 12 for me). Other than Vick, he's the guy in the first 2 tiers mostly likely to be irrelevant 4 years from now. You don't have to look much further than Kyle Orton's precipitous fall in value since Dec.

Help me here - what does Kyle Orton have to do with Matt Schaub?

His value was a low QB1/high QB2 in October and a low QB2 in December. He threw for a ton of yards and was top 5 in scoring for the year before they throwing a young QB out there and a coaching change made it all disappear. You're free to ignore this possibility, but if it can happen to Kurt Warner, it can happen to Matt Schaub.

Matt Schaub has several years of excellent production. I have no idea why you are trying to compare his career to a few months in Kyle Orton's career year. He is a much better player than Kyle Orton.

 

[squistion]

0 playoff appearances and Kubiak would already be fired if it wasn't for the work stoppage.

Still confused. He is clearly a starting QB and will not be replaced. If you want to point the finger for the lack of playoff appearances, I think we should start with the historically bad defense. I don't think Schaub needs Kubiak to be a QB1, year in, year out.

Certainly doesn't hurt, amirite? Don't think he has a ton of job security in Houston. If teams can want Palmer, teams will want him, but his lacking of winning means something in the NFL even if it doesn't count in your fantasy boxscore.

He's a redraft QB1. He's a dynasty QB2 (a high one, but not in the top 12 for me). Other than Vick, he's the guy in the first 2 tiers mostly likely to be irrelevant 4 years from now. You don't have to look much further than Kyle Orton's precipitous fall in value since Dec.

Help me here - what does Kyle Orton have to do with Matt Schaub?

His value was a low QB1/high QB2 in October and a low QB2 in December. He threw for a ton of yards and was top 5 in scoring for the year before they throwing a young QB out there and a coaching change made it all disappear. You're free to ignore this possibility, but if it can happen to Kurt Warner, it can happen to Matt Schaub.

Matt Schaub has several years of excellent production. I have no idea why you are trying to compare his career to a few months in Kyle Orton's career year. He is a much better player than Kyle Orton.

I don't understand the comparison either. And while people's rankings differ, I never thought Orton was a low QB1/high QB2 in October, unless it was a redraft league.

 

[Go deep]

I think people are overlooking the big difference between the two. Rivers is more talented. I like Schaub, and I know their numbers have been similar over the last couple years, but Schaub is much more dependant on the system.

Rivers put up monster numbers last year despite being down to the teams 4th and 5th wrs starting. Not to mention missing his left tackle for most of the season and a FB starting at rb.

Plus, Rivers seems to be trending upwards while Schaub seems to be going the other way. Also what happens to Schaub if Kubiak is gone next year?

Rivers is the safest every week starter outside of Manning, and has the highest upside of anyone not named Rodgers. To me there us a huge drop in QBs after Rodgers and Rivers, and unless I could get something significant in return, there if no way I get rid of either of them.

 

[thriftyrocker]

Matt Schaub has several years of excellent production. I have no idea why you are trying to compare his career to a few months in Kyle Orton's career year. He is a much better player than Kyle Orton.

I don't understand the comparison either. And while people's rankings differ, I never thought Orton was a low QB1/high QB2 in October, unless it was a redraft league.

Not facing this guy especially with him AWOL but just taking advantage of his openness: SSOG's ranking history. Orton as QB1 for 10 weeks in his rankings peaking at #8 for 6 weeks. Go Deep also had him high (above Brady in ranking although similar in value score).If you'd rather compare him to Kurt Warner or Joe Montana, that's fine. The point remains that the NFL is fickle, and if you don't win (or if someone wins in your place), it doesn't matter how many yards you pass for or how many fantasy teams you help.

 

[The Berry Man]

I think people are overlooking the big difference between the two. Rivers is more talented. I like Schaub, and I know their numbers have been similar over the last couple years, but Schaub is much more dependant on the system. Rivers put up monster numbers last year despite being down to the teams 4th and 5th wrs starting. Not to mention missing his left tackle for most of the season and a FB starting at rb.Plus, Rivers seems to be trending upwards while Schaub seems to be going the other way. Also what happens to Schaub if Kubiak is gone next year? Rivers is the safest every week starter outside of Manning, and has the highest upside of anyone not named Rodgers. To me there us a huge drop in QBs after Rodgers and Rivers, and unless I could get something significant in return, there if no way I get rid of either of them.

I agree that Rivers is a tier above Schaub, I just think that Schaub is a few tiers above Orton. I would not trade Rivers for Schaub unless I was getting some pretty significant value in addition to Schaub.To answer your question though re: Kubiak, I don't think anything happens to Schaub is he leaves. He's no Tom Brady/Peyton Manning, but Schuab is still a better than average quarterback in a league where most teams would kill for a better than average quarterback. Schaub has his blemishes, but I don't think job security is one of them.

 

[Go deep]

I think people are overlooking the big difference between the two. Rivers is more talented. I like Schaub, and I know their numbers have been similar over the last couple years, but Schaub is much more dependant on the system. Rivers put up monster numbers last year despite being down to the teams 4th and 5th wrs starting. Not to mention missing his left tackle for most of the season and a FB starting at rb.Plus, Rivers seems to be trending upwards while Schaub seems to be going the other way. Also what happens to Schaub if Kubiak is gone next year? Rivers is the safest every week starter outside of Manning, and has the highest upside of anyone not named Rodgers. To me there us a huge drop in QBs after Rodgers and Rivers, and unless I could get something significant in return, there if no way I get rid of either of them.

I agree that Rivers is a tier above Schaub, I just think that Schaub is a few tiers above Orton. I would not trade Rivers for Schaub unless I was getting some pretty significant value in addition to Schaub.To answer your question though re: Kubiak, I don't think anything happens to Schaub is he leaves. He's no Tom Brady/Peyton Manning, but Schuab is still a better than average quarterback in a league where most teams would kill for a better than average quarterback. Schaub has his blemishes, but I don't think job security is one of them.

While I think Orton is underrated, I agree that Schaub is better. My concern with Kubiak leaving isnt Schaubs job security, but the success of the offense. I think the offense as a whole suffers with the loss of Kubiak.