Dynasty Rankings (10 Viewers)

[LauP]

Hey Bud, Cheers for the effort you put in.

Just wondering why Forte's value went down from 50 to 44.

 

[rzrback77]

Hey Bud, Cheers for the effort you put in.Just wondering why Forte's value went down from 50 to 44.

Pretty sure because da Bears signed Kevin Jones

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Hey Chris, Can you comment on Darius Walker? I was a little surprised not to see him mentioned. None of his competition (Green, Brown, Taylor, Slaton) seems to be that entrenched, especially in a dynasty league. Or are you worried about them bringing in a stud before he gets a chance?

Good to hear from you. We all have our super-sleepers, but I just don't see Walker being an intriguing guy to hold onto. Cliff's Notes version:No, I'm not worried about them bringing in a stud. I worry that he won't even make the team this year. And I worry further that he's not talented enough to be a fantasy factor. And I worry even further about him being nothing more than a third down back even if he ever does get a chance. He seems to me like the kind of guy who got his best/only chance late last season. Bottom line: if the Texans really thought much of him, they wouldn't have brought in Chris Brown and drafted Steve Slaton.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Hey Bud, Cheers for the effort you put in.Just wondering why Forte's value went down from 50 to 44.

Pretty sure because da Bears signed Kevin Jones

We don't really know how to separate guys like Kevin Smith and Matt Forte until we see them play with their NFL teams (or at least I don't know enough. . . .). There's not much separating the two in my mind. I still don't believe Kevin Jones will be a significant factor in the first half -- the guy tore his ACL late in the season, and he uses his knees to make a living -- but he might be able to do enough in the second half of the season for the Bears to think about bringing him back . . . or even enough to split enough carries late in '08 to make Forte a worthless fantasy starter.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Hey Chris, Can you comment on Darius Walker? I was a little surprised not to see him mentioned. None of his competition (Green, Brown, Taylor, Slaton) seems to be that entrenched, especially in a dynasty league. Or are you worried about them bringing in a stud before he gets a chance?

Good to hear from you. We all have our super-sleepers, but I just don't see Walker being an intriguing guy to hold onto. Cliff's Notes version:No, I'm not worried about them bringing in a stud. I worry that he won't even make the team this year. And I worry further that he's not talented enough to be a fantasy factor. And I worry even further about him being nothing more than a third down back even if he ever does get a chance. He seems to me like the kind of guy who got his best/only chance late last season. Bottom line: if the Texans really thought much of him, they wouldn't have brought in Chris Brown and drafted Steve Slaton.

Thanks! Do you like Wynn better? I had the choice of those two and went with Walker because I think both Grant and Jackson are better than anyone in Houston.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Hey Chris, Can you comment on Darius Walker? I was a little surprised not to see him mentioned. None of his competition (Green, Brown, Taylor, Slaton) seems to be that entrenched, especially in a dynasty league. Or are you worried about them bringing in a stud before he gets a chance?

Good to hear from you. We all have our super-sleepers, but I just don't see Walker being an intriguing guy to hold onto. Cliff's Notes version:No, I'm not worried about them bringing in a stud. I worry that he won't even make the team this year. And I worry further that he's not talented enough to be a fantasy factor. And I worry even further about him being nothing more than a third down back even if he ever does get a chance. He seems to me like the kind of guy who got his best/only chance late last season. Bottom line: if the Texans really thought much of him, they wouldn't have brought in Chris Brown and drafted Steve Slaton.

Thanks! Do you like Wynn better? I had the choice of those two and went with Walker because I think both Grant and Jackson are better than anyone in Houston.

I like Wynn better because I think he's a better player. I also remember that he was given the RB job in Green Bay before they ultimately stumbled upon Ryan Grant last season. Wynn is injury prone, but there's a good chance that he's also more of a pure back-up to Grant than Brandon Jackson is.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

Hey Chris, Can you comment on Darius Walker? I was a little surprised not to see him mentioned. None of his competition (Green, Brown, Taylor, Slaton) seems to be that entrenched, especially in a dynasty league. Or are you worried about them bringing in a stud before he gets a chance?

Good to hear from you. We all have our super-sleepers, but I just don't see Walker being an intriguing guy to hold onto. Cliff's Notes version:No, I'm not worried about them bringing in a stud. I worry that he won't even make the team this year. And I worry further that he's not talented enough to be a fantasy factor. And I worry even further about him being nothing more than a third down back even if he ever does get a chance. He seems to me like the kind of guy who got his best/only chance late last season. Bottom line: if the Texans really thought much of him, they wouldn't have brought in Chris Brown and drafted Steve Slaton.

Thanks! Do you like Wynn better? I had the choice of those two and went with Walker because I think both Grant and Jackson are better than anyone in Houston.

I like Wynn better because I think he's a better player. I also remember that he was given the RB job in Green Bay before they ultimately stumbled upon Ryan Grant last season. Wynn is injury prone, but there's a good chance that he's also more of a pure back-up to Grant than Brandon Jackson is.

Thanks Chris.

 

[Steelers22]

Is there any pages that have dynasty draft strategies? I have the 5th pick in a 12 team dynasty league. I was going to pick Addai if he is there and if he isn't, I was going to go with Gore. After that though, I'm not sure what to do in the second and third rounds. I was thinking about going WR WR in rounds 2 and 3 so I could get a Fitzgerald and like Braylon combo or something like that. Any help is appreciated

 

[Tau837]

F&L, I respectfully submit that some of your rookie rankings seem a bit inflated. As an example, here are your top 9 rookie WRs (stopped there because I didn't think I'd go deeper in my rookie draft). Note, I pulled these out manually, because I didn't see an up to date rookie list in your blog, just overall position lists, so I may have missed someone.

33 - Hardy

34 - Thomas

38 - Kelly

40 - Sweed

45 - Nelson

57 - Simpson

58 - Avery

59 - Jackson

61 - Royal

Of the rookies above, how many are expected to start this year? Maybe 2 (Hardy and Thomas/Kelly)? I realize this is a dynasty ranking, so perhaps you would concede years 1 and 2 without getting much production and are really banking on year 3 and beyond... but to have all 9 of them ranked in the top 61 seems inflated IMO.

Do you just feel this is an extraordinary group of rookie WRs? Some would argue there is no standout talent among them.

Perhaps it would be helpful if you could reiterate the time horizon you use for your rankings. That is, are you looking out 3 years, 5 years, or longer? How much do you weigh years 1 and 2 vs. the out years? Etc. I'm sure you have addressed this in the thread, but at this point it's too hard to find a needle in this thread's 40 page haystack.

Thanks.

 

[benm3218]

F&L, I respectfully submit that some of your rookie rankings seem a bit inflated. As an example, here are your top 9 rookie WRs (stopped there because I didn't think I'd go deeper in my rookie draft). Note, I pulled these out manually, because I didn't see an up to date rookie list in your blog, just overall position lists, so I may have missed someone.33 - Hardy34 - Thomas38 - Kelly40 - Sweed45 - Nelson57 - Simpson58 - Avery59 - Jackson61 - RoyalOf the rookies above, how many are expected to start this year? Maybe 2 (Hardy and Thomas/Kelly)? I realize this is a dynasty ranking, so perhaps you would concede years 1 and 2 without getting much production and are really banking on year 3 and beyond... but to have all 9 of them ranked in the top 61 seems inflated IMO.Do you just feel this is an extraordinary group of rookie WRs? Some would argue there is no standout talent among them.Perhaps it would be helpful if you could reiterate the time horizon you use for your rankings. That is, are you looking out 3 years, 5 years, or longer? How much do you weigh years 1 and 2 vs. the out years? Etc. I'm sure you have addressed this in the thread, but at this point it's too hard to find a needle in this thread's 40 page haystack.Thanks.

After reading all of F&L's thread and knowing his style and reasons for rank pretty well, I will give you my opinion on your question and then hopefully he will weigh in too.In a Dyansty thread of this caliber you have to look beyond current situation and current stats. Otherwise you would just have a power ranking system that was not very helpful. It would be no different than the ESPN power rankings. Useless essentially for us Dynasty players. F&L's ranking is changed minorly as time goes by due to situation or other factors but alot of it is talent as well.SO, knowing how he ranks based on expected talent with the goal being to be ahead of the crowd on identifying a talented player, I would say his ranking of those guys is due to thier talent AND the situation.Where will Santana Moss be in 3 years? Where will Lee Evans be? Hines Ward? Torry Holt? I think the receiver class was good, but just had so many players all ranked evenly that no team needed to jump on the single one or two best players avail. I think F&L ranked them because he see's them with talent and likes the situation they are in or will be in in the next few years.

 

[EBF]

Once you get outside the top 25-35 WRs in a dynasty league, you're mostly picking from various flavors of crap. At that point you might as well gamble on the upside of youth rather than settling on a useless journeyman. I actually think you can make a case for many of those rookie wideouts a lot higher than where he has them. Most of those guys become good value at about the WR35-40 range.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Once you get outside the top 25-35 WRs in a dynasty league, you're mostly picking from various flavors of crap. At that point you might as well gamble on the upside of youth rather than settling on a useless journeyman. I actually think you can make a case for many of those rookie wideouts a lot higher than where he has them. Most of those guys become good value at about the WR35-40 range.

EBF nailed it. Outside of the Top 25-35, it's a lot of guesswork. We know what most of those guys bring to the table, and it's basically a WR3 upside. Sure, the rookies will mostly fail be to be impact fantasy players as well, but until we watch them play and begin to figure out which ones to weed through, many of them have a chance to be much bigger assets than WR3 upside.

Rookies aren't known commodities, so they're always going to be ranked a bit higher than they deserve simply because there's a chance they could be special. In other words, they haven't failed . . . yet.

And there's really no benefit to a strategy that sings the praises of mediocre veterans. That's a recipe for a string of losing seasons in dynasty leagues.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Is there any pages that have dynasty draft strategies? I have the 5th pick in a 12 team dynasty league. I was going to pick Addai if he is there and if he isn't, I was going to go with Gore. After that though, I'm not sure what to do in the second and third rounds. I was thinking about going WR WR in rounds 2 and 3 so I could get a Fitzgerald and like Braylon combo or something like that. Any help is appreciated

I've always frowned on this kind of rigid draft thinking. Why make up your mind and eliminate options before the draft has even started? You have to get a feel for the flow of the draft, gauge where the value is, and take the most talented playmakers regardless of position.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

Is there any pages that have dynasty draft strategies? I have the 5th pick in a 12 team dynasty league. I was going to pick Addai if he is there and if he isn't, I was going to go with Gore. After that though, I'm not sure what to do in the second and third rounds. I was thinking about going WR WR in rounds 2 and 3 so I could get a Fitzgerald and like Braylon combo or something like that. Any help is appreciated

I've always frowned on this kind of rigid draft thinking. Why make up your mind and eliminate options before the draft has even started? You have to get a feel for the flow of the draft, gauge where the value is, and take the most talented playmakers regardless of position.

Another thing about rigid strategy...at least in my case...is that it tends to make me overthink things.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

F&L, I respectfully submit that some of your rookie rankings seem a bit inflated. As an example, here are your top 9 rookie WRs (stopped there because I didn't think I'd go deeper in my rookie draft). Note, I pulled these out manually, because I didn't see an up to date rookie list in your blog, just overall position lists, so I may have missed someone.

33 - Hardy

34 - Thomas

38 - Kelly

40 - Sweed

45 - Nelson

57 - Simpson

58 - Avery

59 - Jackson

61 - Royal

Of the rookies above, how many are expected to start this year? Maybe 2 (Hardy and Thomas/Kelly)? I realize this is a dynasty ranking, so perhaps you would concede years 1 and 2 without getting much production and are really banking on year 3 and beyond... but to have all 9 of them ranked in the top 61 seems inflated IMO.

Do you just feel this is an extraordinary group of rookie WRs? Some would argue there is no standout talent among them.

Perhaps it would be helpful if you could reiterate the time horizon you use for your rankings. That is, are you looking out 3 years, 5 years, or longer? How much do you weigh years 1 and 2 vs. the out years? Etc. I'm sure you have addressed this in the thread, but at this point it's too hard to find a needle in this thread's 40 page haystack.

Thanks.

I gave a general answer on the rookies a couple of posts up, but to address a couple of more items:- I don't feel like this is an extraordinary group of rookie WRs at all. I'm no college expert, but it seems to me like this is one of the weaker groups of recent years. But like I said earlier, until we see them fail, there's still a chance that a few will emerge as difference makers down the road. My style has always been to roll the dice on a possibility of greatness as opposed to taking a more stable player with little upside . . . with the obvious caveat that you have to balance that out with your roster nucleus and current needs.

- I think the time horizon is another example of rigid thinking. I don't have a 3, 5, or 7 year outlook when I do the rankings. I basically gauge talent level, situation, recent stats, and age for each player, and then sort them out by balancing all of that in my head using instinct and anticipation. It's definitely more art than science, and I realizes that brings its own inherent flaws . . . but it's the best way I've figured out for ranking players.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

My league of many years is converting to a Dynasty format this season, and your blog has been immensely helpful. Many thanks.

I apologize in advance for what I am certain is a redundant question - but is there a printer-friendly version of the positional rankings available? I could not find one, and I would love to have your rankings and analysis available as a reference during my draft.

 

[Tau837]

- I don't feel like this is an extraordinary group of rookie WRs at all. I'm no college expert, but it seems to me like this is one of the weaker groups of recent years.

I agree with this, which is the main reason I found your collective WR rankings to feel high to me.

But like I said earlier, until we see them fail, there's still a chance that a few will emerge as difference makers down the road. My style has always been to roll the dice on a possibility of greatness as opposed to taking a more stable player with little upside . . . with the obvious caveat that you have to balance that out with your roster nucleus and current needs.

OK, given the bolded caveat, I can agree with this. I suppose my issue could be that if I want to win this year, a lot of these guys won't help me. So balancing out my roster (given a limited roster size) for my current needs (scoring in my lineup) means I am limited in how many of these guys I can take... which would seem to shift their rankings downward somewhat, relative to other players I need more imminently. But I understand your point.

- I think the time horizon is another example of rigid thinking. I don't have a 3, 5, or 7 year outlook when I do the rankings.

I agree with this. I was just trying to figure out why their rankings seemed high to me.

 

[Tau837]

After reading all of F&L's thread and knowing his style and reasons for rank pretty well, I will give you my opinion on your question and then hopefully he will weigh in too.In a Dyansty thread of this caliber you have to look beyond current situation and current stats. Otherwise you would just have a power ranking system that was not very helpful. It would be no different than the ESPN power rankings. Useless essentially for us Dynasty players.

Of course. I agree.

F&L's ranking is changed minorly as time goes by due to situation or other factors but alot of it is talent as well.SO, knowing how he ranks based on expected talent with the goal being to be ahead of the crowd on identifying a talented player, I would say his ranking of those guys is due to thier talent AND the situation.

Actually, this is not at all what I got out of F&L's answer. What I got is:1. We don't know they won't be good.2. There is a solid chance that a few of them will be good to very good.3. So the collective group is ranked a bit higher than might be otherwise justified because we aren't sure which ones will fit #2.Now, the fact that they are spread out from #33 to #61 does account for F&L's view of their differing combinations of talent & situation to be sure. But the overall group as a whole is elevated because they *might* be good.Note: I don't necessarily find this intuitive, but I'm not saying it is wrong. Just trying to illustrate the difference between what this poster thought and what I think F&L said.

I think the receiver class was good, but just had so many players all ranked evenly that no team needed to jump on the single one or two best players avail. I think F&L ranked them because he see's them with talent and likes the situation they are in or will be in in the next few years.

He went on to say he thinks the group of WRs is weaker than normal, which I agree with.

 

[EBF]

A rookie prospect is like a raffle ticket. You buy enough of them and you'll win a big prize. The thing is, you can never tell for sure which tickets are going to pay off. In 2003 I took Charles Rogers in the 4th and Tyrone Calico in the 12th. Both of those rookies flopped big time, but Anquan Boldin in the 20th was a big enough jackpot to cover my losses. In 2006 I took Matt Jones in the 8th and Chad Jackson in the 9th. Those guys were busts, but Santonio Holmes in the 10th was a home run.

I didn't especially like Holmes or Boldin. I'd love to sit here and act like I knew they were going to be studs, but that's just not the case. I picked them simply because they were highly touted prospects with the potential to pay major dividends for a low cost. These examples illustrate why it's not a bad strategy to lump rookies together in your dynasty rankings. No matter how good you think you are at evaluating talent, I can promise you that your miss rate will still be pretty high. I liked Chad Jackson more than Santonio Holmes and I liked Tyrone Calico more than Anquan Boldin. This could've burned me bad, but because I was smart enough to throw a lot of darts at the board, I ended up with a couple bullseyes.

Anyone who's familiar with my drafting strategy knows that I do this all the time. In the recent Hyperactive draft I took the following WR prospects:

Malcolm Kelly - 9.07

Jason Hill - 14.06

Dwayne Jarrett - 16.06

Eddie Royal - 17.07

Devin Hester - 18.06

Adrian Arrington - 19.07

Derek Hagan - 23.07

Arman Shields - Waivers

Do I expect all of these guys to succeed? No.

Do I think I'll get at least one long term starter from these picks? Yes.

I can pretty much guarantee you that three years from now one of the guys on the above list will be a consensus top 20 dynasty WR. Maybe it's Kelly. Maybe it's Royal. Maybe it's Hester. Maybe it's Arrington. I really don't know. That's why I take all of them and let the FF gods sort them out.

Some people might think it's a waste of picks to take so many prospects. I disagree. The payoff of one Anquan Boldin, Steve Smith, or Chad Johnson is well worth the cost of a few late picks. The important thing to realize is that you're not passing on anyone that you'll regret passing on when you take prospects late like this.

That's where I'd like to tie this discussion back into F&L's dynasty rankings. None of those rookie WRs ranked in that 33-61 range are bad gambles. Why? Because you're not risking anything by drafting them that late. Seriously. Who are you missing out on in the 12th round? Is it going to kill your FF team if you pass up Patrick Crayton? Is it really going to cost you to miss out on DJ Hackett? Almost certainly not.

F&L has the rookie WRs ranked roughly in the correct place, which is right after the high quality vet WR value disappears (about WR25-35). Once the startable known quantity vets are gone, you're left to pick between crappy journeyman and high risk prospects with superstar upside. In that case I'm gambling on upside every time.

My Hyper 3 draft is a great example of this strategy in action. My first eight picks:

1.05 - Brian Westbrook

2.08 - Randy Moss

3.07 - Anquan Boldin

4.08 - Roy Williams

5.07 - Ben Roethlisberger

6.03 - Felix Jones

8.06 - Hines Ward

9.08 - Todd Heap

You see the theme here? No gambles. Nothing but sure things. I had to reach for Felix because everyone reaches for RBs and I had no choice if I wanted a backup. Otherwise I stuck to my playbook and took superstar veteran talent at every pick. But...

Once the reliable veteran talent dried up, I shifted gears completely. Check out the rest of my draft:

9.07 - Malcolm Kelly

10.06 - Donnie Avery

11.07 - Tashard Choice (our draft happened before MB3 signed his new contract or else I would've taken Jordy here)

12.06 - Dustin Keller

13.07 - Trent Edwards

14.06 - Jason Hill

15.07 - Kevin Kolb

16.06 - Dwayne Jarrett

17.07 - Eddie Royal

18.06 - Devin Hester

19.07 - Adrian Arrington

20.06 - Xavier Omon

Not a sure thing in the bunch, but lots of upside. Lots of players with great pedigrees who could develop into frontline contributors over the course of the next 2-3 years. You add one or two of these guys to the mix with my core of veteran starters and you get what should be a mean starting lineup.

That's how you build a dynasty team. You don't reach for these rookie prospects when there are elite veteran talents on the board, but the moment those guys go extinct you start stockpiling youth like you're preparing your bomb shelter for Y3K.

If anything, I think F&L has sold some of those rookies short. Eddie Royal at WR61? Jordy Nelson at WR45? Buy buy buy.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

If anything, I think F&L has sold some of those rookies short. Eddie Royal at WR61? Jordy Nelson at WR45? Buy buy buy.

Two players I've earmarked to move up over the last day or so and just haven't gotten around to updating.Pro Football Prospectus and another report had me questioning whether Royal was really more punt returner than long term answer at WR, but the training camp buzz has been pretty strong with him. Shanny loves him.I like Jordy Nelson as much as any rookie WR, but I just worry about playing time. I don't like carrying dead weight on my roster for two years unless I'm absolutely convinced they are going to be stars.

 

[Ron_Mexico]

Is there any pages that have dynasty draft strategies? I have the 5th pick in a 12 team dynasty league. I was going to pick Addai if he is there and if he isn't, I was going to go with Gore. After that though, I'm not sure what to do in the second and third rounds. I was thinking about going WR WR in rounds 2 and 3 so I could get a Fitzgerald and like Braylon combo or something like that. Any help is appreciated

I've always frowned on this kind of rigid draft thinking. Why make up your mind and eliminate options before the draft has even started? You have to get a feel for the flow of the draft, gauge where the value is, and take the most talented playmakers regardless of position.

Totally agree.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

My league of many years is converting to a Dynasty format this season, and your blog has been immensely helpful. Many thanks.I apologize in advance for what I am certain is a redundant question - but is there a printer-friendly version of the positional rankings available? I could not find one, and I would love to have your rankings and analysis available as a reference during my draft.

Sorry, Chuck. I'm not very tech-savvy (as you can tell by the relatively philistine front page), so I would have no idea how to do a print friendly version. The best I've been able to come up with just on experimentation from other requests is to switch over from Mozilla to Explorer, lower the font, and print each position separately. Best bet may be to copy from the blog and paste into a Word Doc. I just tried that with Mozilla, and it worked just fine. I lowered the font from 12 to 9 once I got it to Word and the QBs were about 5 pages. You could easily get that down to 4 pages by cutting off the last 10 QBs and moving to 8 font . . . which was still fine for my eyes.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Brandon Marshall's detailed rap sheet . . . and thoughts on his dynasty value.

 

[Christo]

Brandon Marshall's detailed rap sheet . . . and thoughts on his dynasty value.

I don't agree with your assessment that he's a must-trade in dynasty leagues. Anything you get for him now will be a low-ball. As someone who's only investment was a 4th round rookie pick a few years ago, I'd rather ride it out and take the chance that he does finally "get it" than give up on him for cheap and have him "get it" while on someone else's roster. Too big a talent. And at 24 he will get another chance.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Brandon Marshall's detailed rap sheet . . . and thoughts on his dynasty value.

I don't agree with your assessment that he's a must-trade in dynasty leagues. Anything you get for him now will be a low-ball. As someone who's only investment was a 4th round rookie pick a few years ago, I'd rather ride it out and take the chance that he does finally "get it" than give up on him for cheap and have him "get it" while on someone else's roster. Too big a talent. And at 24 he will get another chance.

You're right. I probably got carried away. "Must trade" is a little extreme. I think he's a must trade if you can get a nucleus caliber WR for him, even if it's somebody you know might be not as talented.

 

[Christo]

Brandon Marshall's detailed rap sheet . . . and thoughts on his dynasty value.

I don't agree with your assessment that he's a must-trade in dynasty leagues. Anything you get for him now will be a low-ball. As someone who's only investment was a 4th round rookie pick a few years ago, I'd rather ride it out and take the chance that he does finally "get it" than give up on him for cheap and have him "get it" while on someone else's roster. Too big a talent. And at 24 he will get another chance.

You're right. I probably got carried away. "Must trade" is a little extreme. I think he's a must trade if you can get a nucleus caliber WR for him, even if it's somebody you know might be not as talented.

 

[footballguy#1]

Best thread ever.

Can we get this one stickied so it's always on the first page?

 

[Anthony Borbely]

Best thread ever.Can we get this one stickied so it's always on the first page?

There is a pinned "Dynasty Master Thread" and there is a link to this thread in the first post.

 

[Steelers22]

Hey, I love the thread and was just wondering what your thoughts on wes welker happened to be. How would you compare him to a plaxico or somebody of that caliber? Welker is not an elite talent by any means but his situation can't be much better than it is now. Would you select him over a plax or roy williams type player or no?

 

[benm3218]

Hey, I love the thread and was just wondering what your thoughts on wes welker happened to be. How would you compare him to a plaxico or somebody of that caliber? Welker is not an elite talent by any means but his situation can't be much better than it is now. Would you select him over a plax or roy williams type player or no?

go here and look at the rankings http://dynastyrankings.blogspot.com/search...onal%20Rankingshe has Roy Williams above Welker but Welker above Plax. Go check out the site.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Hey, I love the thread and was just wondering what your thoughts on wes welker happened to be. How would you compare him to a plaxico or somebody of that caliber? Welker is not an elite talent by any means but his situation can't be much better than it is now. Would you select him over a plax or roy williams type player or no?

go here and look at the rankings http://dynastyrankings.blogspot.com/search...onal%20Rankingshe has Roy Williams above Welker but Welker above Plax. Go check out the site.

Thanks, benm.Steelers22,

Here's how I see it: In that dynamic Pats offense, Welker's role is so stable, and Brady relies him on him so much, that he seems like a consistent Top 15-25 WR for the next few years. He's especially valuable in PPR leagues. If you're looking for consistency and stability in your #2/3 WR, then Welker is your guy.

I think Roy Williams is easily a Top-10 talent at WR, but he's been stuck in Detroit with subpar quarterback play and hasn't helped matters by coming down with a few untimely injuries. My style would generally be to swing the fences with Williams' talent as opposed to relying on Welker's stability. Williams can be a special player if his situation improves. My guess is that he and Calvin Johnson are going to be an unstoppable force sooner rather than later . . . even with Kitna quarterbacking, but his situation is more risky than Welker's.

Plax is a stud, but I just don't trust him. He's just too flaky and inconsistent for me. He seems like a guy who could lose a considerable chunk of value at a moment's notice. A lot of that is gut instinct on my part, but I've learned to listen to the voice on players like Plax.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

I think Roy Williams is easily a Top-10 talent at WR, but he's been stuck in Detroit with subpar quarterback play and hasn't helped matters by coming down with a few untimely injuries. My style would generally be to swing the fences with Williams' talent as opposed to relying on Welker's stability. Williams can be a special player if his situation improves. My guess is that he and Calvin Johnson are going to be an unstoppable force sooner rather than later . . . even with Kitna quarterbacking, but his situation is more risky than Welker's.

If the practice I saw Friday was any indication, the bolded part is correct.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

I think Roy Williams is easily a Top-10 talent at WR, but he's been stuck in Detroit with subpar quarterback play and hasn't helped matters by coming down with a few untimely injuries. My style would generally be to swing the fences with Williams' talent as opposed to relying on Welker's stability. Williams can be a special player if his situation improves. My guess is that he and Calvin Johnson are going to be an unstoppable force sooner rather than later . . . even with Kitna quarterbacking, but his situation is more risky than Welker's.

If the practice I saw Friday was any indication, the bolded part is correct.

A QB-desperate owner in my league, going against my very vocal advice, just traded Calvin Johnson and his 2009 #1 for Matt Leinart, Laurence Maroney, and a 2009 4th round pick. I told him I wouldn't have even done it just for Calvin . . . much less throwing in the #1.

I've been trying to acquire Calvin all spring and summer. He's going to be a phenomenon very soon.

 

[travdogg]

I think Roy Williams is easily a Top-10 talent at WR, but he's been stuck in Detroit with subpar quarterback play and hasn't helped matters by coming down with a few untimely injuries. My style would generally be to swing the fences with Williams' talent as opposed to relying on Welker's stability. Williams can be a special player if his situation improves. My guess is that he and Calvin Johnson are going to be an unstoppable force sooner rather than later . . . even with Kitna quarterbacking, but his situation is more risky than Welker's.

If the practice I saw Friday was any indication, the bolded part is correct.

A QB-desperate owner in my league, going against my very vocal advice, just traded Calvin Johnson and his 2009 #1 for Matt Leinart, Laurence Maroney, and a 2009 4th round pick. I told him I wouldn't have even done it just for Calvin . . . much less throwing in the #1.

I've been trying to acquire Calvin all spring and summer. He's going to be a phenomenon very soon.

Yeah he probably shouldn't have added a 1st rounder, that being said I'm sky high on Maroney, he seems undervalued everywhere I look. I think he's a top-15 RB who is only 23 and on a team where he'll never see an 8-man front. This is the first full offseason of his career, and camp reports have said he's been the most improved player on the team, especially in the passing game. So maybe your league mate will come out ahead. My worry with Calvin and Roy is Detroit is basically a black hole for production. As talented as Roy and Calvin are they have a lousy QB and a coach who wants to run more. I like them both as top-10 talents, but top-10 production might be a while and in Roy's case likely won't be in Detroit. Personally I don't view them as better or all that different from a guy like Dwayne Bowe who is likely much easier to get.

Not really related to this particular topic, but I was wondering why you were so high on Chris Johnson, don't get me wrong I like him too, certainly more than Smith or Forte, but Jeff Fisher is a power offense guy and Johnson will likely be a part-timer due to his size. It just seems like a lot has to go right for him to justify his high ranking, ahead of guys like Lewis and Turner who are undisputed RB1s for their teams and within within range of a guy like Maroney is just pretty high to me. Do you see another Brian Westbrook here? As a Vince Young owner I'm hoping he can be that good.

ETA: Is Steve Smith inching any closer to the"knucklehead factor."

 

[benm3218]

I wan to hear F&L's take on Chris Johnson too, bit I will tell you this.

He is much stronger than you and 75% of the fantasy world realizes. He ran between the tackles in college.

Heimerdinger said this:

"When Chris Johnson carried it at East Carolina, he ran between the tackles there... he wasn’t playing against the Sisters of the Poor."

He will be used a bit more than many realize. I haven't been this excited about a pick by the Titans in a long time, maybe ever.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Yeah he probably shouldn't have added a 1st rounder, that being said I'm sky high on Maroney, he seems undervalued everywhere I look. I think he's a top-15 RB who is only 23 and on a team where he'll never see an 8-man front. This is the first full offseason of his career, and camp reports have said he's been the most improved player on the team, especially in the passing game. So maybe your league mate will come out ahead.

My worry with Calvin and Roy is Detroit is basically a black hole for production. As talented as Roy and Calvin are they have a lousy QB and a coach who wants to run more. I like them both as top-10 talents, but top-10 production might be a while and in Roy's case likely won't be in Detroit. Personally I don't view them as better or all that different from a guy like Dwayne Bowe who is likely much easier to get.

Not really related to this particular topic, but I was wondering why you were so high on Chris Johnson, don't get me wrong I like him too, certainly more than Smith or Forte, but Jeff Fisher is a power offense guy and Johnson will likely be a part-timer due to his size. It just seems like a lot has to go right for him to justify his high ranking, ahead of guys like Lewis and Turner who are undisputed RB1s for their teams and within within range of a guy like Maroney is just pretty high to me. Do you see another Brian Westbrook here? As a Vince Young owner I'm hoping he can be that good.

ETA: Is Steve Smith inching any closer to the"knucklehead factor."

1] I see no reason to be "sky high" on Maroney. He's a talented back, no doubt, but most of what I see is reason for concern. To quote my blog post from last week:

I wouldn't want to be a Laurence Maroney owner right now. His value is simply too precarious. There have been insider-type rumors over the past year that the team's brass doesn't think he's tough enough to hold up physically to a full load in addition to their frustration about him dancing behind the line instead of hitting the hole directly.

Regardless of Jordan's ultimate role on the team, I've been saying for quite some time that I simply don't trust Maroney to be used consistently in the Pats offense. We're talking about a prospective fantasy starter who racked up a whopping four receptions last season! Jordan's signing just adds more confusion to a usage pattern that was already tough to get a handle on.

If you're a true Maroney believer, I'm certainly not going to sway you. But for those non-Maroney owners out there, I'd advise letting someone else deal with that headache.

If you're in love with Maroney's talent and think he'll force his way into a consistent, solidified role with the Pats during regular season, now is a great time to buy low. I just don't believe that it's a likely scenario. 2] I worry about the Lions black-hole factor as well, but I think Calvin Johnson is good enough to pull himself and the passing game out of that black hole. Randy Moss turned the Vikings offense around and granted career years to Randall Cunningham, Daunte Culpepper, and arguably Jeff George as well. I don't know that Calvin Johnson will be quite as good as Moss, but he's going to come close to having that kind of impact. If Roy ends up a former Lion in the next year or two, I think his value jumps significantly. In the meantime, I still love his talent. I don't how much easier D-Bo would be to get. I wouldn't trade him if I had him.

3] I don't see what's not to like about Chris Johnson. I love his talent, his playmaking ability, his toughness, his intelligence, and his situation. If you're a true LenDale believer, I can see why you might have a tough time wrapping your mind around Johnson's prominence in the offense . . . but I'm not a LenDale believer, and I know Johnson is much more talented. Duly noted about Fisher being traditionally a power offense guy, but he's also smart enough to realize he needed a playmaker on offense. That playmaker is Chris Johnson, and he's going to be put to use in that offense beginning in Week 1. The guy ran the fastest time ever recorded electronically at the NFL combine, and he combines that with a history of being a well-rounded and ultra-productive football player. I think he's the real deal and an impact offensive player.

More importantly, I swing for the fences. I do believe Johnson can be Westbrook-type difference maker. He's considerably faster than Westbrook and with less of a BMI, but I think he can prosper in a similar offensive role. I'd rather take a chance on Johnson being the kind of player who can carry my team than put my eggs in a player like Turner's basket where he's stuck in an awful offense playing behind a woeful O-Line and doesn't catch passes.

Also, Pro Football Prospectus loves Chris Johnson . . . and predicts him to make an impressive showing on the ground and through the air in his rookie season. He was also rated by Football Outsiders as the best RB prospect going into the draft.

Oh, and I put my money where my mouth is. Friday, I traded Pierre Thomas (who I'm also high on) and my '09 #1 for Johnson. I have S-Jax and Westbrook, but I think Johnson fits in perfectly as a RB3 so I can contend the next couple of years without having to worry about Westbrook approaching the age-30 cliff.

 

[travdogg]

1]If you're in love with Maroney's talent and think he'll force his way into a consistent, solidified role with the Pats during regular season, now is a great time to buy low. I just don't believe that it's a likely scenario.

2] I worry about the Lions black-hole factor as well, but I think Calvin Johnson is good enough to pull himself and the passing game out of that black hole. Randy Moss turned the Vikings offense around and granted career years to Randall Cunningham, Daunte Culpepper, and arguably Jeff George as well. I don't know that Calvin Johnson will be quite as good as Moss, but he's going to come close to having that kind of impact. If Roy ends up a former Lion in the next year or two, I think his value jumps significantly. In the meantime, I still love his talent. I don't how much easier D-Bo would be to get. I wouldn't trade him if I had him.

3] I don't see what's not to like about Chris Johnson. I love his talent, his playmaking ability, his toughness, his intelligence, and his situation. If you're a true LenDale believer, I can see why you might have a tough time wrapping your mind around Johnson's prominence in the offense . . . but I'm not a LenDale believer, and I know Johnson is much more talented. Duly noted about Fisher being traditionally a power offense guy, but he's also smart enough to realize he needed a playmaker on offense. That playmaker is Chris Johnson, and he's going to be put to use in that offense beginning in Week 1. The guy ran the fastest time ever recorded electronically at the NFL combine, and he combines that with a history of being a well-rounded and ultra-productive football player. I think he's the real deal and an impact offensive player.

More importantly, I swing for the fences. I do believe Johnson can be Westbrook-type difference maker. He's considerably faster than Westbrook and with less of a BMI, but I think he can prosper in a similar offensive role. I'd rather take a chance on Johnson being the kind of player who can carry my team than put my eggs in a player like Turner's basket where he's stuck in an awful offense playing behind a woeful O-Line and doesn't catch passes.

Also, Pro Football Prospectus loves Chris Johnson . . . and predicts him to make an impressive showing on the ground and through the air in his rookie season. He was also rated by Football Outsiders as the best RB prospect going into the draft.

Oh, and I put my money where my mouth is. Friday, I traded Pierre Thomas (who I'm also high on) and my '09 #1 for Johnson. I have S-Jax and Westbrook, but I think Johnson fits in perfectly as a RB3 so I can contend the next couple of years without having to worry about Westbrook approaching the age-30 cliff.

1. Yeah, I basically fall under that in love with Maroney's talent group. I don't think he'll be consistent, but I think he'll be top-15 with upside and that's pretty valuable from a 23 year old at any position. I kinda think he won over Belichick in the playoffs when he stopped dancing and hit the holes with some power. Every report out out Patriots camp says Maroney looks like a new back as far as his pass catching skills, I think Maroney is a decent receiver its just Faulk is excellent at it, but how much longer does Faulk have? I see Jordan as a true backup should anything happen. I think Faulk or (more likely) Morris will be cut.2. I disagree with that Calvin/Moss comparison. Randy Moss didn't turn that offense around, he made it much better, but it was always a top-10 offense. Carter and Reed were both 1,000 yard WR's the year before they drafted Moss and they had a 1,000 yard RB and a top-notch o-line with 3 pro bowlers on it(Christy, McDaniel, Stuessie) and Detroit's offense is nowhere near as talented. Not to mention Cunningham, George and especially Culpepper were all 10 times the QB Kitna is(or anyone else Detroit has had since...Layne?) Maybe Detroit trades for a McNabb or one of Cleveland's QB's, but as of now I have a hard time ranking either Detroit WR in the top-10, although they are both on the cusp.

3. I don't have a problem with Johnson, just who he's ahead of. I like Johnson, but he's not going to be a full-time guy at least not right away and White and to some extent Young will take TD's from him. I think he'll be a better NFL player than fantasy player. I've certainly moved him up a little, but top-20 seems risky to me. Admittedly I tend to be sort of conservative and I hope Johnson is that good since it would go a long way toward helping Young.

I think you are underestimating Turner, I don't think Atlanta's offense is that bad and the O-line is incredibly underrated. Their RB's traditionally average a high ypc. Norwood was at 6ypc last year. They get a bad rap because Vick left and the running game fell off, but I think that mostly has to do with poor play calling and Warrick Dunn being finished. Norwood's numbers stayed about the same and if you take out a 90 yard run by Dunn in 06' against the Giants he wasn't really any better that year than this past year even with Vick there. I fully expect Atlanta to average at least 4.4 ypc and Turner to get about 280 carries. Mularkey loves to run and run out of power sets. That whole team is being underestimated due to the Vick stigma and the Petrino mess, but they aren't nearly as poor as most seem to believe.

I'm glad you brought up Pierre Thomas, I want to thank you for that one, I pretty much got him as a throw-in(to the other owner, I wouldn't have made the trade without him) and he's now my RB4 in my dynasty league and couldn't be happier about it. I'm under the impression Deuce is done and I'm thinking 900 yards and 8 scores isn't out of the question for Thomas, that's assuming Bush stays healthy, have I talked myself into him a little too much?

I think that was a ballsy trade you made, but I agree its good to know you "put your money where your mouth is."

 

[Fear & Loathing]

1. Yeah, I basically fall under that in love with Maroney's talent group. I don't think he'll be consistent, but I think he'll be top-15 with upside and that's pretty valuable from a 23 year old at any position. I kinda think he won over Belichick in the playoffs when he stopped dancing and hit the holes with some power. Every report out out Patriots camp says Maroney looks like a new back as far as his pass catching skills, I think Maroney is a decent receiver its just Faulk is excellent at it, but how much longer does Faulk have? I see Jordan as a true backup should anything happen. I think Faulk or (more likely) Morris will be cut.

2. I disagree with that Calvin/Moss comparison. Randy Moss didn't turn that offense around, he made it much better, but it was always a top-10 offense. Carter and Reed were both 1,000 yard WR's the year before they drafted Moss and they had a 1,000 yard RB and a top-notch o-line with 3 pro bowlers on it(Christy, McDaniel, Stuessie) and Detroit's offense is nowhere near as talented. Not to mention Cunningham, George and especially Culpepper were all 10 times the QB Kitna is(or anyone else Detroit has had since...Layne?) Maybe Detroit trades for a McNabb or one of Cleveland's QB's, but as of now I have a hard time ranking either Detroit WR in the top-10, although they are both on the cusp.

3. I don't have a problem with Johnson, just who he's ahead of. I like Johnson, but he's not going to be a full-time guy at least not right away and White and to some extent Young will take TD's from him. I think he'll be a better NFL player than fantasy player. I've certainly moved him up a little, but top-20 seems risky to me. Admittedly I tend to be sort of conservative and I hope Johnson is that good since it would go a long way toward helping Young.

I think you are underestimating Turner, I don't think Atlanta's offense is that bad and the O-line is incredibly underrated. Their RB's traditionally average a high ypc. Norwood was at 6ypc last year. They get a bad rap because Vick left and the running game fell off, but I think that mostly has to do with poor play calling and Warrick Dunn being finished. Norwood's numbers stayed about the same and if you take out a 90 yard run by Dunn in 06' against the Giants he wasn't really any better that year than this past year even with Vick there. I fully expect Atlanta to average at least 4.4 ypc and Turner to get about 280 carries. Mularkey loves to run and run out of power sets. That whole team is being underestimated due to the Vick stigma and the Petrino mess, but they aren't nearly as poor as most seem to believe.

I'm glad you brought up Pierre Thomas, I want to thank you for that one, I pretty much got him as a throw-in(to the other owner, I wouldn't have made the trade without him) and he's now my RB4 in my dynasty league and couldn't be happier about it. I'm under the impression Deuce is done and I'm thinking 900 yards and 8 scores isn't out of the question for Thomas, that's assuming Bush stays healthy, have I talked myself into him a little too much?

I think that was a ballsy trade you made, but I agree its good to know you "put your money where your mouth is."

1. We'll just agree to disagree. In no way do I believe Maroney is going to get a consistent work load, and fantasy football is about finding a guy who's not a threat to throw up a stinker every other week. Maroney always could catch the football; that's not the problem. The problem is he's not being used in that capacity, and now they've brought in another RB who can catch the ball very well. I have no idea (and neither do you) who is going to get the short-yardage/goal-line work throughout the regular season. 2. The two years before Moss arrived in Minnesota they finished 23rd and 11th in offense. In Randy's first year, they jumped to first place with one of the two most dominant offenses in NFL history . . . and they stayed Top 5 in the NFL for two more years after that. I'd say he turned the offense around. Oh, and Moss gave Cunningham his best passing season by a long shot, ditto Culpepper. What has Culpepper done in the NFL without Moss? He was awful as soon as Randy left. George had a couple of good seasons before Randy, but he had his career best QB rating, TD%, and yards per catch the year he played with Randy. Even Tom Brady jumped from a steady 25 TDs and great play to 50 TDs and historically great play. I'm not arguing that the Lions offense is talented. I'm saying that a healthy Calvin Johnson is going to open up the offense and make everyone else look like they're better than they are.

3. LenDale White is not a problem for Chris Johnson.

I watch the Falcons every week. Believe me when I tell you, their offensive line is god-awful. The whole team is excruciating to watch; they're just a lousy football team all around. I can't put it any more plainly than that. They'll be lucky to win four games this year. If it weren't for the Chiefs, they may be the worst team in the league in 2008. Furthermore, Football Outsiders' data on back-up RBs going to a new team to become starters bodes very poorly for Michael Turner. Like I've said before, if you don't catch the ball, then you have to put up 75 yards consistently and find the end zone. I have a hard time believing he's going to do either consistently in that offense.

I'm still very high on Pierre Thomas, but there were two reasons I made the trade: 1] the talent difference between Johnson and Pierre. One is a first-rounder with obscene speed and playmaking ability. The other was an undrafted free agent. Granted, Thomas fell through the cracks and looks like he has a nice skill set, but he's no Chris Johnson. 2] There's no question Johnson will be used consistently in Tennessee. The team spent a 1st round pick on him to fill a huge need on their offense, and now that they have him, they see that he's even better than they thought when they decided to spend that 1st. Thomas has a lot of bodies to fight for carries in New Orleans. I doubt Deuce's ability to stay healthy as much as anyone does, but I respect his drive and will too. There are many close to that team who believe Deuce can carry it consistently 12-15 times a game all season. I don't happen to be one of those people, but I can't quite rule out Deuce. Also, there's a nagging voice in the back of my head that sees Stecker cutting into Thomas' value if Deuce goes down. Didn't Stecker get the job when Bush went down last year? Like I said, I still like Thomas a lot, but he's just less of a sure thing than Johnson . . . especially for '08.

*I'll get back to you on Steve Smith and the "knucklehead factor," but the short/easy answer is: absolutely not. I can't decide if your question makes me want to craft an essay on "The Ongoing Wussification of the American Male," site the overly corporate/overly P.C. movement's deleterious effect on sports, or simply state the obvious fact that being a bad### is beneficial on the football field. **** Butkus a/k/a 1970 Sports Illustrated's "The Most Feared Man in the Game" has to be just flabbergasted at the hand-wringing going on over a training camp fight/beatdown . . . among other things.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

You don't have to be the best QB to be a solid fantasy QB. Kitna is good enough. The Lions may not throw as much, but the WRs who lose out are the slot guys. They are going to get the ball to Calvin and Roy. Kitna said he expects EACH to get 80 catches. Last year the slot WRs had more targets than Calvin and Roy. Calvin had 95, Roy had 104. Their target % was not great, but you have to remember that most of the passes to them were downfield. This year, there are more 3 and 5 step drops and more bootleg plays. I fully expect both of them to see a significant increase in targets and with more shorter passes, the percentages will also go up. They intend to get them the ball and let them make plays. That is why I think Martz leaving helps both of them.

I'm one who thinks Roy stays here beyond this year. Nothing but a hunch.

Calvin has the kind of upside that comes along every 10 years and I will take my chances keeping or trading for players like that. If I'm wrong, at least I went with my gut. I really wonder how DBs will cover him. I saw a CB try to jam him at the line in practice and he tossed him aside like he was nothing. He runs routes like a much smaller WR. When he learns how to better use his body in the end zone, he is going to be unstoppable. I'd sure like to know how they will defend him. All that stands in his way of becoming an elite WR is experience.

I am leery of Maroney because of how NE uses their RBs. I can see Maroney being limited during the regular season in order to keep him healthy for the playoffs. He is too important to risk injury in the regular season, considering they can win without Maroney carrying a heavy load. I would like him a lot more if he was on a different team. But I would still not trade Calvin for him.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

You don't have to be the best QB to be a solid fantasy QB. Kitna is good enough. The Lions may not throw as much, but the WRs who lose out are the slot guys. They are going to get the ball to Calvin and Roy. Kitna said he expects EACH to get 80 catches. Last year the slot WRs had more targets than Calvin and Roy. Calvin had 95, Roy had 104. Their target % was not great, but you have to remember that most of the passes to them were downfield. This year, there are more 3 and 5 step drops and more bootleg plays. I fully expect both of them to see a significant increase in targets and with more shorter passes, the percentages will also go up. They intend to get them the ball and let them make plays. That is why I think Martz leaving helps both of them. I'm one who thinks Roy stays here beyond this year. Nothing but a hunch. Calvin has the kind of upside that comes along every 10 years and I will take my chances keeping or trading for players like that. If I'm wrong, at least I went with my gut. I really wonder how DBs will cover him. I saw a CB try to jam him at the line in practice and he tossed him aside like he was nothing. He runs routes like a much smaller WR. When he learns how to better use his body in the end zone, he is going to be unstoppable. I'd sure like to know how they will defend him. All that stands in his way of becoming an elite WR is experience. I am leery of Maroney because of how NE uses their RBs. I can see Maroney being limited during the regular season in order to keep him healthy for the playoffs. He is too important to risk injury in the regular season, considering they can win without Maroney carrying a heavy load. I would like him a lot more if he was on a different team. But I would still not trade Calvin for him.

Agree 100% with all of it.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Getting a Handle on the Seahawks Wide Receiver Situation

 

[fatness]

*I'll get back to you on Steve Smith and the "knucklehead factor," but the short/easy answer is: absolutely not. I can't decide if your question makes me want to craft an essay on "The Ongoing Wussification of the American Male," site the overly corporate/overly P.C. movement's deleterious effect on sports, or simply state the obvious fact that being a bad### is beneficial on the football field. **** Butkus a/k/a 1970 Sports Illustrated's "The Most Feared Man in the Game" has to be just flabbergasted at the hand-wringing going on over a training camp fight/beatdown . . . among other things.

Please do both.

 

[travdogg]

*I'll get back to you on Steve Smith and the "knucklehead factor," but the short/easy answer is: absolutely not. I can't decide if your question makes me want to craft an essay on "The Ongoing Wussification of the American Male," site the overly corporate/overly P.C. movement's deleterious effect on sports, or simply state the obvious fact that being a bad### is beneficial on the football field. **** Butkus a/k/a 1970 Sports Illustrated's "The Most Feared Man in the Game" has to be just flabbergasted at the hand-wringing going on over a training camp fight/beatdown . . . among other things.

I agree that its a sign of the times that Smith is suspended and that it is kinda silly, I think its silly whenver someone is suspended without being convicted of a crime, whether its Smith, Brandon Marshall or even Chris Henry. None of those guys have done anything suspension worthy. But, the point I was getting at is that Smith missing time affects your fantasy season. He's not there for 2 games and that could be the difference between winning and losing.One thing is I do applaud the Panthers for being the ones instituting this suspension, if for no other reason then its likely if Goodell would have it would have been worse, maybe Denver should have sat Marshall down for 2 games and then he wouldn't be on the hook for whatever happens next week.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

*I'll get back to you on Steve Smith and the "knucklehead factor," but the short/easy answer is: absolutely not. I can't decide if your question makes me want to craft an essay on "The Ongoing Wussification of the American Male," site the overly corporate/overly P.C. movement's deleterious effect on sports, or simply state the obvious fact that being a bad### is beneficial on the football field. **** Butkus a/k/a 1970 Sports Illustrated's "The Most Feared Man in the Game" has to be just flabbergasted at the hand-wringing going on over a training camp fight/beatdown . . . among other things.

I agree that its a sign of the times that Smith is suspended and that it is kinda silly, I think its silly whenver someone is suspended without being convicted of a crime, whether its Smith, Brandon Marshall or even Chris Henry. None of those guys have done anything suspension worthy. But, the point I was getting at is that Smith missing time affects your fantasy season. He's not there for 2 games and that could be the difference between winning and losing.One thing is I do applaud the Panthers for being the ones instituting this suspension, if for no other reason then its likely if Goodell would have it would have been worse, maybe Denver should have sat Marshall down for 2 games and then he wouldn't be on the hook for whatever happens next week.

There's absolutely no comparison between guys like Chris Henry and Brandon Marshall on one hand and Steve Smith on the other. Conviction or not, Marshall and Henry are getting arrested at an alarming rate. It seems like not a month goes by before they're arrested for one incident or another. That's just not normal. These two guys have outrageously lengthy rap sheets and a history of criminal and idiotic behavior.Steve Smith isn't getting arrested. In fact, he's a very visible member of the Charlotte community, and he does a lot of charity work. This is a man who tries to do the right thing, to walk the right path. He's a player with a violent temper playing a violent game. That same edge and competitive fire is what makes him so damn good. Teammate Jordan Gross explained it well:

“I've always said you can't love Steve on the field and hate him off the field,” Gross said. “What makes Steve a good player is that competitive edge and that fire. So, everybody loses their cool. I'm not justifying what happened, but you know, we're out there competing against the same guys every day. I think he just lost his cool. He'd be the first one to admit that."

Even having said all of that, what also separates Smith from the two jerks is that he showed extreme remorse as soon as the incident occurred. He knew what he did was wrong and was visibly affected by it even though the pattern consists of just two episodes (arguably three) in his career. And believe me, there was a time when 2-3 physical altercations with your teammates in football was hardly a blip on the radar screen. And if any owners in my leagues are looking to trade Steve Smith because they think his fire, quick temper, and ultra-competitive nature are an issue, I'll be the first one lining up with an offer.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Not really related to this particular topic, but I was wondering why you were so high on Chris Johnson, don't get me wrong I like him too, certainly more than Smith or Forte, but Jeff Fisher is a power offense guy and Johnson will likely be a part-timer due to his size. It just seems like a lot has to go right for him to justify his high ranking, ahead of guys like Lewis and Turner who are undisputed RB1s for their teams and within within range of a guy like Maroney is just pretty high to me. Do you see another Brian Westbrook here? As a Vince Young owner I'm hoping he can be that good.

A better answer -- Swing for the Fences: The Chris Johnson Hype Train

 

[KellysHeroes]

How has the SJax Hold-out affected your ranking?

 

[Fear & Loathing]

How has the SJax Hold-out affected your ranking?

It hasn't yet. I'll start to get concerned about S-Jax in about a week and a half.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

I thought it was interesting that LaDanian Tomlinson was traded in my main league.

The guy who owned him had Tomlinson since his rookie year and absolutely loves him . . . has always loved him even before he ever played a down in the NFL. That said, I thought he got desperate and sold low. Here are the particulars:

LaDainian Tomlinson & T.J. Houshmandzadeh for Maurice Jones-Drew and 2009 #1.

Now the guy trading Housh was dealing from depth as he had just acquired Calvin Johnson and already had Chad Johnson, Marques Colston, and Antonio Gates at WR/TE. But he also had no startable RBs beyound Tomlinson (shotgun offense of 1 RB & 4 WR/TE is allowed in this league).

I've been higher on MJD than just about anybody, and I still think he bailed too soon on Tomlinson. I've yet to get his explanation for the trade yet, but I'm guessing he just figured he'd get a talented young RB while the getting was good.

 

[Avery]

I thought it was interesting that LaDanian Tomlinson was traded in my main league.The guy who owned him had Tomlinson since his rookie year and absolutely loves him . . . has always loved him even before he ever played a down in the NFL. That said, I thought he got desperate and sold low. Here are the particulars:LaDainian Tomlinson & T.J. Houshmandzadeh for Maurice Jones-Drew and 2009 #1.Now the guy trading Housh was dealing from depth as he had just acquired Calvin Johnson and already had Chad Johnson, Marques Colston, and Antonio Gates at WR/TE. But he also had no startable RBs beyound Tomlinson (shotgun offense of 1 RB & 4 WR/TE is allowed in this league). I've been higher on MJD than just about anybody, and I still think he bailed too soon on Tomlinson. I've yet to get his explanation for the trade yet, but I'm guessing he just figured he'd get a talented young RB while the getting was good.

I don't like the trade.Also, I think the trade in and of itself devalues the #1 pick for with Tomlinson on the roster of the guy trading away the number 1 pick, assuming worst to first drafting, the number 1 pick in 2009 is not likely to be a very good number 1.

 

[Burning Sensation]

I thought it was interesting that LaDanian Tomlinson was traded in my main league.The guy who owned him had Tomlinson since his rookie year and absolutely loves him . . . has always loved him even before he ever played a down in the NFL. That said, I thought he got desperate and sold low. Here are the particulars:LaDainian Tomlinson & T.J. Houshmandzadeh for Maurice Jones-Drew and 2009 #1.Now the guy trading Housh was dealing from depth as he had just acquired Calvin Johnson and already had Chad Johnson, Marques Colston, and Antonio Gates at WR/TE. But he also had no startable RBs beyound Tomlinson (shotgun offense of 1 RB & 4 WR/TE is allowed in this league). I've been higher on MJD than just about anybody, and I still think he bailed too soon on Tomlinson. I've yet to get his explanation for the trade yet, but I'm guessing he just figured he'd get a talented young RB while the getting was good.

I dont think he bailed on LT too soon, both him and Housh are guys i would be selling hard right now. I also have MJD ranked as my #3 dynasty RB. With that said, i think he could have gotten more. Is the 2009 1st a potential top 3 pick?